This is a hard chat this next one because joining me on the line is Wayne Holdsworth. He is the founder of smack Talk, which you can find on line smack Talk and the Mac in smack is named after his son Mac who tragically a year ago took his life seventeen because he was being blackmailed sexual extortion on social media and as part of smack Talk, and Wayne was here in Adelaide I understand recently where he addressed the cyber security Let Them Be Kids campaign that the new South Wales and South Australian governments held this push to raise the age of kids being on teenagers being on social media. Today is Unplugged twenty four. That's the day Wayne is designated in memory of his son Mac, who I understand today is the first anniversary of Mac taking his life. Wayne Holdsworth, good morning, Oh.

This is a hard chat this next one because joining me on the line is Wayne Holdsworth. He is the founder of smack Talk, which you can find on line smack Talk and the Mac in smack is named after his son Mac who tragically a year ago took his life seventeen because he was being blackmailed sexual extortion on social media and as part of smack Talk, and Wayne was here in Adelaide I understand recently where he addressed the cyber security Let Them Be Kids campaign that the new South Wales and South Australian governments held this push to raise the age of kids being on teenagers being on social media. Today is Unplugged twenty four. That's the day Wayne is designated in memory of his son Mac, who I understand today is the first anniversary of Mac taking his life. Wayne Holdsworth, good morning, Oh.

Good morning, Matthew. Thanks very much for having me on this morning.

Good morning, Matthew. Thanks very much for having me on this morning.

I appreciate it and thank you for your time. How are you holding up today?

I appreciate it and thank you for your time. How are you holding up today?

Yeah, it's a tough day and it really is. It's twelve months today and now at seven o'clock in the morning that I realized that he hadn't got up and I went into his room, and it was It's not a distant memory at all, it's just very fresh in my mind. And you know, there was several things that occurred in his life that caused him to take his life, and he wrote about that, and one of them was that he was sexually extorted between fifteen and sixteen years of age. He thought he was liaising with a young eighteen year old and shared nude photos. It turns out that there was a forty seven year old man from Lisbole, New South Wales that he was dealing with, and not long after he shared the photo, the mud photo that after she'd shared hers, he the communication ceased and he got a phone call and it was from him and said that he demanded five hundred dollars immediately into a bank account, otherwise he would share those photos with all his friends and family, and he hacked into Max's account. So Mac paid him five hundred straight away. But they're not long after that the blake rang again and oneed another five hundred, and that's when he came in to see me and said he'd made a mistake. And I put my arms around him and said, no, you haven't made you're the victim here and Anyway, as we were hugging, and I remember him, he was crying on my shoulder, and he's a resilient boy. He had to go to footage training the next night, and he was worried that those photos had to be shared. And the phone rang and he asked me to pick it up, and I had an animated discussion with his person and the last words his person said to me were I hope you die and I hope your son dies well. And that was that. He used his own bank account details for the five hundred dollars and the police were able to trace him. He was supposed to be using an encrypted code that the cartel that he's working for gave him, but he didn't. He cut them out, so he was found, he was charged, and he was tried. In January of twenty four. Mac was asked to as a victim impact statement, but he couldn't do that because he passed away. And that person got six months jail and he's out now. And it's allege that he used his fifteen year old niece as bait to lure young boys in you know and bel gullible and so basically I could have done three things Matthew. I could have joined him, and I did have suicidal thoughts early on. Or I could have lived a life like a lot of parents do, of grief and regrets and sorrow. Or I could have just used his death as a catalyst to do more in suicide prevention. And that's what I decided to do. So we set up a charity called Smack Talk. And as you said, that m Ac in Smack Talk is in reference to my boy Mac. And so I developed a program in conjunction with Sport After Suicide and suicide Preventional Australia that I go out and speak I work full time in basketball, but I go out and speak in after hours to as many groups as I can and we've kicked over eight thousand hour in the last six months. And talk to them about the signs, talk to them about the questions. To ask you opening the questions, give them better listening skills, listen to understand, not listening to resolve or respond. The final thing is to know what process to follow if someone says I don't want to be here anymore, so I do that. I'll do that at corporate level, or do that at booty club level. Anywhere people want to listen. And then Matthew, I was walking my dog a few weeks ago and we're thinking about how to recognize the twelve months after mac pass and thinking about running a basketball tournament or maybe a fun run or something of that nature. But then I thought maybe something more appropriate. We'd be around social media, and thought that I'd ask every Australiaan that I could get to to have stayed from social media today. Fourth and to register on the smack talk dot com dot Au website and go into Unpluded twenty four and register. And we've had forty thousand people in twenty thousand just yesterday register and it's growing by the second. So it's enormous pedomon this because has been unbelievable. Your Premier is a shining light, feel income he is. I met him at the Social Media summit a week or two ago with Chris Minch from New South Wales and I spent some time with your Premier. He's unbelievable. He's a great leader in my opinion, and he's also signed up. So we're really grateful. Matthew, really are Walla.

Yeah, it's a tough day and it really is. It's twelve months today and now at seven o'clock in the morning that I realized that he hadn't got up and I went into his room, and it was It's not a distant memory at all, it's just very fresh in my mind. And you know, there was several things that occurred in his life that caused him to take his life, and he wrote about that, and one of them was that he was sexually extorted between fifteen and sixteen years of age. He thought he was liaising with a young eighteen year old and shared nude photos. It turns out that there was a forty seven year old man from Lisbole, New South Wales that he was dealing with, and not long after he shared the photo, the mud photo that after she'd shared hers, he the communication ceased and he got a phone call and it was from him and said that he demanded five hundred dollars immediately into a bank account, otherwise he would share those photos with all his friends and family, and he hacked into Max's account. So Mac paid him five hundred straight away. But they're not long after that the blake rang again and oneed another five hundred, and that's when he came in to see me and said he'd made a mistake. And I put my arms around him and said, no, you haven't made you're the victim here and Anyway, as we were hugging, and I remember him, he was crying on my shoulder, and he's a resilient boy. He had to go to footage training the next night, and he was worried that those photos had to be shared. And the phone rang and he asked me to pick it up, and I had an animated discussion with his person and the last words his person said to me were I hope you die and I hope your son dies well. And that was that. He used his own bank account details for the five hundred dollars and the police were able to trace him. He was supposed to be using an encrypted code that the cartel that he's working for gave him, but he didn't. He cut them out, so he was found, he was charged, and he was tried. In January of twenty four. Mac was asked to as a victim impact statement, but he couldn't do that because he passed away. And that person got six months jail and he's out now. And it's allege that he used his fifteen year old niece as bait to lure young boys in you know and bel gullible and so basically I could have done three things Matthew. I could have joined him, and I did have suicidal thoughts early on. Or I could have lived a life like a lot of parents do, of grief and regrets and sorrow. Or I could have just used his death as a catalyst to do more in suicide prevention. And that's what I decided to do. So we set up a charity called Smack Talk. And as you said, that m Ac in Smack Talk is in reference to my boy Mac. And so I developed a program in conjunction with Sport After Suicide and suicide Preventional Australia that I go out and speak I work full time in basketball, but I go out and speak in after hours to as many groups as I can and we've kicked over eight thousand hour in the last six months. And talk to them about the signs, talk to them about the questions. To ask you opening the questions, give them better listening skills, listen to understand, not listening to resolve or respond. The final thing is to know what process to follow if someone says I don't want to be here anymore, so I do that. I'll do that at corporate level, or do that at booty club level. Anywhere people want to listen. And then Matthew, I was walking my dog a few weeks ago and we're thinking about how to recognize the twelve months after mac pass and thinking about running a basketball tournament or maybe a fun run or something of that nature. But then I thought maybe something more appropriate. We'd be around social media, and thought that I'd ask every Australiaan that I could get to to have stayed from social media today. Fourth and to register on the smack talk dot com dot Au website and go into Unpluded twenty four and register. And we've had forty thousand people in twenty thousand just yesterday register and it's growing by the second. So it's enormous pedomon this because has been unbelievable. Your Premier is a shining light, feel income he is. I met him at the Social Media summit a week or two ago with Chris Minch from New South Wales and I spent some time with your Premier. He's unbelievable. He's a great leader in my opinion, and he's also signed up. So we're really grateful. Matthew, really are Walla.

You must ask yourself what else you could have done? And it sounds like you gave Mac the best possible advice. You know, he's a victim man, Yet this tragedy still occurs. And that's the worst part about this.

You must ask yourself what else you could have done? And it sounds like you gave Mac the best possible advice. You know, he's a victim man, Yet this tragedy still occurs. And that's the worst part about this.

Yeah, it really is, Matthew, it really is. And I don't say this lightly. But if I'd known then what I know now, he'd be with us today without a doubt, mate, because I would have asked him more questions and just are you okay? He'd be in the car all the time with me, driving into footy games and training and all that. And I always teld him here going, mate, because he just lost his confidence and lost his you know, he's captain of the school and he's a leader at the footy club and he just didn't want to do that anymore and he lost his He became withdrawn, and I asked him are you okay here feeling, mate, and to be always yeah, I'm good dad, on fine, fine. I wouldn't follow it up with another question, you know, And now I know that that's what you've got to do, to delve a bit deeper, to say people, And you know, the stress and pressure that the kids are under these days, particularly a social media is enormous and we need to raise the limit and your government again leading away, he raised the limits of sixteen because there's kids as young as five here in Australia, boys that are addicted to violent pornography simply because they think it on there, Yeah, five, simply because they can. They just push I'm over ado and they get in. And you can't rely on the tech companies to monitor it because there's not in their best interest commercially. So we as a country have to bandy together and get all governments to raise at sixteen. It's going to be hard, real challenge, but we've got to start somewhere and if it saves one life then it's worth it.

Yeah, it really is, Matthew, it really is. And I don't say this lightly. But if I'd known then what I know now, he'd be with us today without a doubt, mate, because I would have asked him more questions and just are you okay? He'd be in the car all the time with me, driving into footy games and training and all that. And I always teld him here going, mate, because he just lost his confidence and lost his you know, he's captain of the school and he's a leader at the footy club and he just didn't want to do that anymore and he lost his He became withdrawn, and I asked him are you okay here feeling, mate, and to be always yeah, I'm good dad, on fine, fine. I wouldn't follow it up with another question, you know, And now I know that that's what you've got to do, to delve a bit deeper, to say people, And you know, the stress and pressure that the kids are under these days, particularly a social media is enormous and we need to raise the limit and your government again leading away, he raised the limits of sixteen because there's kids as young as five here in Australia, boys that are addicted to violent pornography simply because they think it on there, Yeah, five, simply because they can. They just push I'm over ado and they get in. And you can't rely on the tech companies to monitor it because there's not in their best interest commercially. So we as a country have to bandy together and get all governments to raise at sixteen. It's going to be hard, real challenge, but we've got to start somewhere and if it saves one life then it's worth it.

Is that possible though, I mean even you know, the reason kids are on social media is because parents allow them to go on TikTok or whatever else.

Is that possible though, I mean even you know, the reason kids are on social media is because parents allow them to go on TikTok or whatever else.

Yeah, And that's exactly right now. If you've hit the nail on the head. The education has to be directed at the kids at primary school to tell them of the evils out there, but also the parents have to understand them when not present. Most parents come afterwards and say I didn't know that. I didn't know that. Yeah, is predators on there that are just wanting to terrorize our kids. So parents don't let them go on those sides. They think they're just having fun on TikTok and what they what they see on TikTok nowadays, I don't want to talk about it on the air, but it is awful. It's awful behavior. And you know, kids addicted to pornography, violent pornography at five, You know what are they going to grow up thinking such a We'll worry. So parents have to be educated. Kids have to be educated. The government are doing a really good job and implementing this legislation, and we've got to get the tech giants on board, which I haven't got much hope for.

Yeah, And that's exactly right now. If you've hit the nail on the head. The education has to be directed at the kids at primary school to tell them of the evils out there, but also the parents have to understand them when not present. Most parents come afterwards and say I didn't know that. I didn't know that. Yeah, is predators on there that are just wanting to terrorize our kids. So parents don't let them go on those sides. They think they're just having fun on TikTok and what they what they see on TikTok nowadays, I don't want to talk about it on the air, but it is awful. It's awful behavior. And you know, kids addicted to pornography, violent pornography at five, You know what are they going to grow up thinking such a We'll worry. So parents have to be educated. Kids have to be educated. The government are doing a really good job and implementing this legislation, and we've got to get the tech giants on board, which I haven't got much hope for.

No, that's the tragedy of this. There doesn't seem to be much open in that regard of them taking responsibility for what's on their sites for goodness sake.

No, that's the tragedy of this. There doesn't seem to be much open in that regard of them taking responsibility for what's on their sites for goodness sake.

Yeah, you're right, Matthew, it's about I reckon. Seven weeks ago, the vice president of Meta An Tigerany Davis, said that she didn't believe that social media damaged children, and then only two weeks after that, they suspended sixty two thousand Nigerian Facebook accounts because they felt that they were dangerous. So they know what's going on. And they've got the technology to ensure that the kids of that age do not get on, but they're not implementing it because they want customers and they want them to be addicted to it for their life.

Yeah, you're right, Matthew, it's about I reckon. Seven weeks ago, the vice president of Meta An Tigerany Davis, said that she didn't believe that social media damaged children, and then only two weeks after that, they suspended sixty two thousand Nigerian Facebook accounts because they felt that they were dangerous. So they know what's going on. And they've got the technology to ensure that the kids of that age do not get on, but they're not implementing it because they want customers and they want them to be addicted to it for their life.

I've got a text from Jim who says, Matt, no nude photos on social media? Then no problem. Why isn't this illegal? Well, I don't know where you even start with that. I mean, you're right, Jim, but how do you enforce that?

I've got a text from Jim who says, Matt, no nude photos on social media? Then no problem. Why isn't this illegal? Well, I don't know where you even start with that. I mean, you're right, Jim, but how do you enforce that?

Yeah, that's right, exactly right. And you know when I go out to schools and talk about that, I asked them, us teachers to turn around. They're back to the kids and kids put up your hand. If you've sent a nude photo and you know, year nine, ten eleven, at least thirty percent admit to it. There's probably another thirty that day. So they've all done it and do it. But now they know that if you do it, it's distrains. It's just like you know, getting in a car when you're fifteen or fourteen in South Australia, you're not allowed to do it. So we can put some legislation around it. It really helps.

Yeah, that's right, exactly right. And you know when I go out to schools and talk about that, I asked them, us teachers to turn around. They're back to the kids and kids put up your hand. If you've sent a nude photo and you know, year nine, ten eleven, at least thirty percent admit to it. There's probably another thirty that day. So they've all done it and do it. But now they know that if you do it, it's distrains. It's just like you know, getting in a car when you're fifteen or fourteen in South Australia, you're not allowed to do it. So we can put some legislation around it. It really helps.

Yeah, absolutely, And the thing with the new photo. Doesn't matter if you're fourteen or fifty four. You don't really know if you haven't met the person, you don't know who you're sending it to. You don't know where it's going to turn up in a month, a year, ten years from now.

Yeah, absolutely, And the thing with the new photo. Doesn't matter if you're fourteen or fifty four. You don't really know if you haven't met the person, you don't know who you're sending it to. You don't know where it's going to turn up in a month, a year, ten years from now.

Yeah. Correct, And this is the drama of it. Yeah, so you just don't send them. It's a simple thing, you know, just mitigate the risk, Matthew, and just don't send them. And that's what I'm teaching all the kids to do. And that's where it's got to start. Parents. You know, the Unplugged twenty four is around the parents showing by example that they're going to get off social media. Then the kids say, oh, okay, if mom and dad are doing it, it must be okay. Because I go to restaurants and cafes and see families there and they're all on their phones. You know, they may all be in the backyard at home or somewhere else. So you know, parents need to be educated as well.

Yeah. Correct, And this is the drama of it. Yeah, so you just don't send them. It's a simple thing, you know, just mitigate the risk, Matthew, and just don't send them. And that's what I'm teaching all the kids to do. And that's where it's got to start. Parents. You know, the Unplugged twenty four is around the parents showing by example that they're going to get off social media. Then the kids say, oh, okay, if mom and dad are doing it, it must be okay. Because I go to restaurants and cafes and see families there and they're all on their phones. You know, they may all be in the backyard at home or somewhere else. So you know, parents need to be educated as well.

Yeah, good luck with today, Wayne. I'm so pleased I've had the chance to chat to you and for everybody listening. So this will be the day forever? Why it? Every year you'll be doing this presumably Unplugged twenty four.

Yeah, good luck with today, Wayne. I'm so pleased I've had the chance to chat to you and for everybody listening. So this will be the day forever? Why it? Every year you'll be doing this presumably Unplugged twenty four.

Yeah, correct, for every year. We're going to do it. Now it's the first one, so you know it's still time. You can still jump on which is www dot smack talk, s, mac k talk dot combat are you and you can register there. It takes something about two minutes and I'd be really grateful.

Yeah, correct, for every year. We're going to do it. Now it's the first one, so you know it's still time. You can still jump on which is www dot smack talk, s, mac k talk dot combat are you and you can register there. It takes something about two minutes and I'd be really grateful.

Yeah, indeed, Wayne, really appreciate your time today. I don't know how you've gone on. I really don't, but full marks to you.

Yeah, indeed, Wayne, really appreciate your time today. I don't know how you've gone on. I really don't, but full marks to you.

Good on you mate, Thanks very much.

Good on you mate, Thanks very much.

Make Wayne Holds founder of smack Talk and unplug twenty four campaign today, So get on and just support it. What a good thing. And yes, kids shouldn't be on social media till at least sixteen at least, and they need to know the risks. So good on Wayne, how's he gone on? Just unreal

Make Wayne Holds founder of smack Talk and unplug twenty four campaign today, So get on and just support it. What a good thing. And yes, kids shouldn't be on social media till at least sixteen at least, and they need to know the risks. So good on Wayne, how's he gone on? Just unreal