With Selangor becoming the epicentre of Covid-19 in Malaysia, BFM's Keith Kam speaks to Dr Dzulkefly Ahmad, the chairman of the Selangor Covid-19 Task Force for some insights on what they are doing to curb the spread of the virus in Malaysia.

Image Source: Magdiel Lagos, Unsplash

Keith Kam (00:00):

Datuk Seri Dr. Zulkefly Ahmad, more than a third of new national cases for January alone is from Selangor. Some days we are seeing more than half of the national cases. Could you give us a sense of what is going on here?

Datuk Seri Dr. Zulkefly Ahmad (00:12):

Right. Um, I must say that besides what had been said by DG (Director-General of Health) or the fact that the numbers skyrocketed to the point of 3,000 over, right in Selangor alone. And 5,000 over in the whole of Malaysia, that number actually, he has now admitted that it is due to the backlog of results that was not immediately sent up to SIMKA (Sistem Informasi Makmal Kesihatan Awan). So while that may be the case, but I think it is fair enough to say that the numbers have been increased across the last week. Even prior to that because Selangor particularly contributed more than half, sometimes ,to be the center, the reservoir for all this, because the compulsory screening of foreign workers and particularly Selangor, you know, is the site for industries, construction sites, as you very well know, this virus spread is a function of how intense human interactions are whatnot, Keith. So I don't think I need to emphasize further of the fact that those outbreaks, were essentially from factories, from construction sites, from those areas that are already been said so many times. So that's the reason why beyond just being densely populated, it's because Selangor forms the most industrialized and the most intense of all human communication interaction. And that's where you get all the outbreaks in construction sites and whatnot.

Keith Kam (01:32):

Dr. Dzul, you said that this has a lot to do with backlogs. What I'm afraid of now is that, is there more that we don't know about and need to prepare for?

Datuk Seri Dr. Zulkefly Ahmad (01:40):

Okay. Honestly, I tell you when I saw that, honestly, we got to get to the bottom of this because all this prediction of R naught and the basis on which you make your decision, it all rests on real time, or at least for seven rolling days, or 14, the fact remains that you got to know what you're talking about. So when data are suspect, whatever that you communicate every day, it doesn't reflect the real time. So it's fundamentally flawed. So this is what we are very concerned with. And this boils down to, you know, whether the data reflects what you have been talking about. No, we can't even affirm now, if our testing is adequate.

Keith Kam (02:20):

Are we operating blindly, then?

Datuk Seri Dr. Zulkefly Ahmad (02:22):

I must say that we thought we were driven by data. We thought that our decision was quite evidence-based, but now, you know, it really ran asunder and it's really, you know, I'm speechless too. It's not, it's not truly reflecting of what is really on the ground because, you know, number doesn't reflect real time.

Keith Kam (02:45):

So what can we do in a situation like this? As far as the STFC (Selangor Task Force Covid-19) is concerned because you are the chairman there, right?

Datuk Seri Dr. Zulkefly Ahmad (02:54):

We must understand, Keith - in so far as STFC okay, we are confined to Selangor, yes. But you must understand. We work very well with the state JKNS (Jabatan Kesihatan Negeri Selangor) we have some form of a division of work, which is quite workable, right? While they take on the outbreaks, you know, the clusters, whether it be the workplaces, factories, dormitories, and whatnot, while they handle that part, we will actually, let me, let me get this out clearly. They were doing more or less the firefighting while we were doing what is known as more preventive, the parameter communities cleaning, you know, for any spills over, right? So that's where we get to do more preventative aspect of the work using, you know, whatever that we could gather from data and Selangkah and our big data analytics and our risk ranking and all this that we have put together. So we were doing it until we were asked to stop - was to go and do community testing along the perimeter community , you know where there is spill over from outbreaks and whatnot. So we were actually doing cluster busting and breaking and stopping that kind of spread. So that was essentially what we were doing until it's been told to JKNS not to data share with us. We are now not doing the community screening anymore, by the way, you know, Keith. So that is one aspect of the work that we thought is really regrettable, is not being able to be continued.

Keith Kam (04:20):

Now, from your point of view, do MCOs and lockdowns actually work given that, you know, you have to strike that balance between lives and livelihoods.

Datuk Seri Dr. Zulkefly Ahmad (04:27):

You know, that you have got to lock down when, you know, numbers are just uncontrollable by way of its positivity rate, you know, by way of its spread. Then you got to do it when you got to do it, but you must have very clear objectives and a timeline and indices of locking it and unlocking it. So this is what is right now, to us, missing. And when you want to do knowingly that it has knock on effect on economy, on livelihood, on enterprisers, you know, they're closing down and people losing jobs and whatnot. So you got to do it with all the care, right? So you got to do an action. You've got to really minimize the adverse, untoward effects by doing what could reduce that kind of impact and adverse knock on effect by using targeted enhance MCOs. If you can just lock them and cordone them, you know, to just minimize that kind of impact. So, you know, yeah, MCO has got its place, but you got to do it with all the, bearing in mind, all the consequences of doing it. So, you know, you just don't simply lockdown with blunt and the kind of crude measures like that. So all the more now that we have learned a lot more of the virus, so you got to do it based on science, based on, you know, risk assessment, based on economy impacts and whatnot. So this is what I think moving forward, we've got to do, because the rate of the viral spread, you must overcome that. Through using all the other tools, whether it is contact tracing, whether it is, you're isolating them, quarantine them, treating them, you know, whatnot. And when you see an officer in the district, the PKD (Pejabat Kesihatan Daerah) and whatnot, having to manually do contact tracing for 500 to 700 people daily, that is really beyond human capacity. So this is why you got to rely on technology, Keith.

Keith Kam (06:23):

Right, Dr. Dzul, you also mentioned just now that a lot of these cases you acknowledge they are from factories and construction sites. We know that. Is this not being addressed after so long since it started to spike in October last year?

Datuk Seri Dr. Zulkefly Ahmad (06:33):

Well, I must say that there's much to be desired. We should have come in earlier and we are going to come in stronger in the sense of more effective kind of communities, screening, you know, more targeted, but that has apparently, as I said, JKNS and MOH (Ministry of Health), were like doing a kind of the chase up, or, you know, they were just doing reactive work. You can't, win over the virus while doing this. So unfortunate that we have not gone in a lot earlier. So the spread, you know, in community beyond just clusters, uh, as well as the sporadic unlinked cases. So it's really difficult time right now. They are quite clearly out of control.

Keith Kam (07:12):

We are losing control. Are you saying?

Datuk Seri Dr. Zulkefly Ahmad (07:13):

Yeah, man, definitely. I mean, going by numbers, going by positivity rate, those numbers are showing that it was beyond 5%. You know, if you do thousands, if you have more than 50 cases, you have 200 cases or even a hundred cases that is 10%. When you do have 200 cases from the thousand, that is 20%. That's really telling you that the spread or rather, the community spread is serious. And in that situation, a lockdown of the nature of a targeted enhanced MCO should be in order.

Keith Kam (07:44):

Now it has also been reported that Selangor is going to go your own way towards procuring vaccines for Selangoreans. What is the rough game plan here?

Datuk Seri Dr. Zulkefly Ahmad (07:52):

Well, it is here that we want to compliment the work of MOH, right? And given we have as well, our responsibility. So the game plan is essentially over and above the frontliners. We want to ensure that as I stated earlier, Selangor contributes to about 25% of the Federation GDP, right? So we are concerned about our industries because that is really critical. So going by that, you got to admit the fact that foreign workers are essentially the backbone of running most of our industries, right? So over and above frontliners. And that frontliners also must be prioritised, you know, so over and above frontliners. We want to ensure that if they are going to be waiting for their chance, if at all, they would be immunized or inoculated, it would be, they would be among the last. Right? So if you want to duly, defend our - I mean proetect our industries, we have got to be concerned about immunizing them. So vaccinating them. So in that sense, all our purchase and procurement, over and above those that we could vaccinate of the oldies and whatnot, we got to also protect these industries through maybe like a, you know, to ring fence our industries. That could be one game plan. That could be one strategy where you have, you know, a ring vaccination kind of thing. But we've got to really look at it seriously because we 've got to play our part in protecting our industries apart from our Selangoreans, ourselves, you know? Yeah. And those frontliners and oldies, the one with co-morbidities, you know, do the high risk group.

Keith Kam (09:20):

Have discussions started on the procurement of vaccines yet?

Datuk Seri Dr. Zulkefly Ahmad (09:23):

We have been, honestly, we have been talking to a few manufacturers and we're having a meeting to inform the Chief Minister to update him over the report over how we want to procure these. And, you know, it had been our preoccupation of late so that we could secure the procurement and then plan for how it's going to be rolled out.

Keith Kam (09:43):

Dr. Dzul, I'd like to address the state's frontliners in the COVID fight in Selangor, how are they coping? What's what's being done to look after their well being?

Datuk Seri Dr. Zulkefly Ahmad (09:51):

Well, you may have heard about what the UMMC (University Malaya Medical Centre) asking for donation via Lazada and what not, but honestly, you know, by way of PPEs , by way of how fatigued they are, not just them getting fatigued, you know, and even donors fatigue pun berlaku, you know donors' fatigue as well happening, you know, this is also, you know, very, very sad. I mean, that is the reality right now, anybody just give lip service to frontliners, but beyond just, you know, praising them and giving them, you know, nice words and praises and whatever. I think the important thing is to really look to their, kind of, you know, wellbeing, because this is where I think we got to really compensate them commensurately, you know, by way of not just remuneration, but as well as their wellbeing, you know, by way of, you know, if you understand what it is it to be in PPEs, you know, how difficult to, you know, be working in that conditions, so you, you have to more than just empathize by actually providing them with the kind of the ambience, if you've ever, you know so, that they can recover and turn around fast so that they could get on when - to do the national service. And this is what, uh, going by stories that I don't have to tell you, that those doctors from COVID hospitals who have been writing and confessing over what exactly is happening to them. I think it's very telling that they are not in the best of situation anyway, yes.

Keith Kam (11:16):

Datuk Seri Dr. Zulkefly Ahmad, Chairman of the Selangor Task Force for COVID-19.