Powerful collaborations. Cutting edge science and curious minds coming together for a glimpse of the future. Stay tuned as we look at the latest updates on some of the most promising technology projects.

Powerful collaborations. Cutting edge science and curious minds coming together for a glimpse of the future. Stay tuned as we look at the latest updates on some of the most promising technology projects.

Welcome to our podcast. I'm Peter Balint from Technikon and today we take a closer look at the LEDLUM project. This is an EU funded effort to bring efficiency and size reduction to the drivers that are used in LED lighting. The end result being more flexibility and reliability in lighting design. To finish this project on time and as planned, partners are meeting today at Technikon here in Austria to discuss some details prior to completion which is only a few months away. We start off with Arnold Knott from the Technical University of Denmark. Tell us what you do and how you are involved with LEDLUM.

Welcome to our podcast. I'm Peter Balint from Technikon and today we take a closer look at the LEDLUM project. This is an EU funded effort to bring efficiency and size reduction to the drivers that are used in LED lighting. The end result being more flexibility and reliability in lighting design. To finish this project on time and as planned, partners are meeting today at Technikon here in Austria to discuss some details prior to completion which is only a few months away. We start off with Arnold Knott from the Technical University of Denmark. Tell us what you do and how you are involved with LEDLUM.

My name is Arnold Knott I'm Associate Professor at the Technical University of Denmark. Working there with the research and working there with education within power electronics. Within the LEDLUM project I've been originally involved in starting the project met with some guys from Tridonic at a conference in 2015 when we sat down and looked at the business case for technology and went on to write an application to the European Commission and our topic fit in very well there. So we were very pleased with that.

My name is Arnold Knott I'm Associate Professor at the Technical University of Denmark. Working there with the research and working there with education within power electronics. Within the LEDLUM project I've been originally involved in starting the project met with some guys from Tridonic at a conference in 2015 when we sat down and looked at the business case for technology and went on to write an application to the European Commission and our topic fit in very well there. So we were very pleased with that.

To summarize LEDLUM is a project which aims to increase the efficiency decrease the size of the drivers that operate LEDs as we know them today. Is this for commercial products or will people actually see this on the consumer level. So if I walk into a store what would I see that might be the end result of your research and your work.

To summarize LEDLUM is a project which aims to increase the efficiency decrease the size of the drivers that operate LEDs as we know them today. Is this for commercial products or will people actually see this on the consumer level. So if I walk into a store what would I see that might be the end result of your research and your work.

Well what we are expecting to happen very soon within the next couple of years is that the LED drivers will have a ways longer lifetime compared to the nowadays only these drivers but also compared to the old bulbs. So we expect lifetime and we expect certainly a lot of energy savings which are there already today in nowadays LED bulbs which are out there in the market. So we expect to keep those and a great improvement from the LEDLUM project should be to decrease the size increase the power density of the of the driver and therefore make it able to fit LEDs in smaller enclosures than before.

Well what we are expecting to happen very soon within the next couple of years is that the LED drivers will have a ways longer lifetime compared to the nowadays only these drivers but also compared to the old bulbs. So we expect lifetime and we expect certainly a lot of energy savings which are there already today in nowadays LED bulbs which are out there in the market. So we expect to keep those and a great improvement from the LEDLUM project should be to decrease the size increase the power density of the of the driver and therefore make it able to fit LEDs in smaller enclosures than before.

Okay. And you're here in Austria for a technical meeting For LEDLUM and this is the end of the second day. How are things shaping up here because this project is over in April. So are you on task or is there a lot of work to be done before April?

Okay. And you're here in Austria for a technical meeting For LEDLUM and this is the end of the second day. How are things shaping up here because this project is over in April. So are you on task or is there a lot of work to be done before April?

Well we are just about to finish off and look at the results that we got; along the way the plan changed as we as we went along in the project and we are seeing now great number of good results we've been playing some LEGO there with a lot of brainstorming, a lot of ideas during the last couple of days we can see that we will actually have a lot of good things to show in a couple of months.

Well we are just about to finish off and look at the results that we got; along the way the plan changed as we as we went along in the project and we are seeing now great number of good results we've been playing some LEGO there with a lot of brainstorming, a lot of ideas during the last couple of days we can see that we will actually have a lot of good things to show in a couple of months.

OK good. What about unexpected things that happened during the course of the project.

OK good. What about unexpected things that happened during the course of the project.

Well some unexpected stuff that happened was the level of integration it actually showed up, proved to be possible to do smaller drivers with less integration than we originally thought would be necessary. So we could go along with cheaper components with components that are available on the market already. So actually those results have accelerated the plan for going to market as far as I can see it.

Well some unexpected stuff that happened was the level of integration it actually showed up, proved to be possible to do smaller drivers with less integration than we originally thought would be necessary. So we could go along with cheaper components with components that are available on the market already. So actually those results have accelerated the plan for going to market as far as I can see it.

And in LEDLUM, there is there a demonstrator at the end that can be shown to the European Commission to say this is what we've done. This is what we've achieved.

And in LEDLUM, there is there a demonstrator at the end that can be shown to the European Commission to say this is what we've done. This is what we've achieved.

iIt looks like from the discussions from the last two days here that we will have more than one demonstrator actually which is good. So we will have low cost solutions we will have high performance solutions and various other bricks to show that actually fit together. That's one thing and the other thing of your question is that I hope that we are not only showing it to the European Commission but we're showing it actually to the public which makes a difference because the European Commission does one or two persons might buy one or two light bulbs. But I hope that we're going to solve at the end ways more LED lighting than just to the European Commission

iIt looks like from the discussions from the last two days here that we will have more than one demonstrator actually which is good. So we will have low cost solutions we will have high performance solutions and various other bricks to show that actually fit together. That's one thing and the other thing of your question is that I hope that we are not only showing it to the European Commission but we're showing it actually to the public which makes a difference because the European Commission does one or two persons might buy one or two light bulbs. But I hope that we're going to solve at the end ways more LED lighting than just to the European Commission

A lot of time and effort has went into researching LED lights, can we can we say that they're here to stay

A lot of time and effort has went into researching LED lights, can we can we say that they're here to stay

Oh I hope the that they are definitely here to stay to stay because it looks like they are going to save a lot of energy compared to the 50 70 80 watt bulb we used to have now we're driving them with 3, 10 maybe 11 watts and get the same amount of light out there so that's making the planet greener than it was before

Oh I hope the that they are definitely here to stay to stay because it looks like they are going to save a lot of energy compared to the 50 70 80 watt bulb we used to have now we're driving them with 3, 10 maybe 11 watts and get the same amount of light out there so that's making the planet greener than it was before

And on top of everything else that you have to develop with the LEDLUM project, you also have to follow a certain set of standards that are issued by the European Union regarding safety and power consumption and these kinds of things within the homes of consumers. Is that right?

And on top of everything else that you have to develop with the LEDLUM project, you also have to follow a certain set of standards that are issued by the European Union regarding safety and power consumption and these kinds of things within the homes of consumers. Is that right?

Yeah there is. For the European market there is something called the CE label. Where do you have to confirm with. If you're worrying. I want to go another markets like for example the U.S. American market it would be the FCC label you need to be compliant with. Within a research project. We are not fulfilling all of those criteria and we don't need to because that's a development project. And the man on the street is not paying for that through the European Commission's taxpayers money. But we are definitely looking very much sure that we are hitting the target on the most important ones and the most critical ones and all the other stuff that's normal development will be done after the project by the court by the industry partners

Yeah there is. For the European market there is something called the CE label. Where do you have to confirm with. If you're worrying. I want to go another markets like for example the U.S. American market it would be the FCC label you need to be compliant with. Within a research project. We are not fulfilling all of those criteria and we don't need to because that's a development project. And the man on the street is not paying for that through the European Commission's taxpayers money. But we are definitely looking very much sure that we are hitting the target on the most important ones and the most critical ones and all the other stuff that's normal development will be done after the project by the court by the industry partners

Okay, and how does the European LED market measure up with the rest of the world in terms of lighting.

Okay, and how does the European LED market measure up with the rest of the world in terms of lighting.

I think everybody has a focus on it so whole world is actually working on that, there is a lot of stuff going on in the U.S. there is a lot of stuff going on in Asia. There are definitely other projects around in the world which are doing good and which is very great to see. We are getting inspired from them. They are getting inspired from us. We meet each other on international conferences during the project. We've been in Madrid meeting with people there and in Taiwan. That's a conference called Power SOC (Power Systems on Chip) and they're we're meeting with international people the next one is going to be in the U.S. next year in 2020. We are going around the world and visiting those three continents and taking turns there.

I think everybody has a focus on it so whole world is actually working on that, there is a lot of stuff going on in the U.S. there is a lot of stuff going on in Asia. There are definitely other projects around in the world which are doing good and which is very great to see. We are getting inspired from them. They are getting inspired from us. We meet each other on international conferences during the project. We've been in Madrid meeting with people there and in Taiwan. That's a conference called Power SOC (Power Systems on Chip) and they're we're meeting with international people the next one is going to be in the U.S. next year in 2020. We are going around the world and visiting those three continents and taking turns there.

OK. And so this consortium gains is powered by the diversity it's made up of several different companies and players from across Europe. What happens at the end of LEDLUM when you've achieved your goals and now we have technology that somehow needs to be leveraged. Is there a follow up to LEDLUM or is this technology sort of then taken up by the partners for their own research.

OK. And so this consortium gains is powered by the diversity it's made up of several different companies and players from across Europe. What happens at the end of LEDLUM when you've achieved your goals and now we have technology that somehow needs to be leveraged. Is there a follow up to LEDLUM or is this technology sort of then taken up by the partners for their own research.

Well we've been just internally discussing that; how the industry partners are taking the research results from this project. And we are just investigating which of the results are feasible for direct further conversion into products and which of the results need more research to get them closer to industrialization.

Well we've been just internally discussing that; how the industry partners are taking the research results from this project. And we are just investigating which of the results are feasible for direct further conversion into products and which of the results need more research to get them closer to industrialization.

Is there anything else about LEDLUM that you would like to say?

Is there anything else about LEDLUM that you would like to say?

I'm very happy about the project. It's been a very diverse project. It's been a very international project. We've had various inputs along the way and we had some great changes along the way in the project. Changes tell me during those research projects that I've been previously running and also within LEDLUM the more you change the plan the more innovation you're actually doing. That's a correlation and in my eyes there and it looks like there's been quite a quite a lot of changes in LEDLUM which have been to the very good of the project. So I'm very much looking forward to finish it off now, a couple of months left and we have great results that we can put together.

I'm very happy about the project. It's been a very diverse project. It's been a very international project. We've had various inputs along the way and we had some great changes along the way in the project. Changes tell me during those research projects that I've been previously running and also within LEDLUM the more you change the plan the more innovation you're actually doing. That's a correlation and in my eyes there and it looks like there's been quite a quite a lot of changes in LEDLUM which have been to the very good of the project. So I'm very much looking forward to finish it off now, a couple of months left and we have great results that we can put together.

So I want to say thank you for coming down today you're in the middle of a technical meeting and you took the time to talk with us to share a little bit about the LEDLUM project. I want to say thanks and wish you much success until the end of April where you have to present your results.

So I want to say thank you for coming down today you're in the middle of a technical meeting and you took the time to talk with us to share a little bit about the LEDLUM project. I want to say thanks and wish you much success until the end of April where you have to present your results.

Thank you very much and thanks for hosting us.

Thank you very much and thanks for hosting us.

Thank you .

Thank you .

Next up in the studio we speak with Mickey Madsen , He's the founder and CEO of Nordic Power Converters which is an innovative company in Denmark that designs and makes small drivers for LED lights. Joining Micky is Thomas Andersen also from Nordic power converters. They're here in Austria for the technical meeting for the LEDLUM project. Welcome gentlemen. Can one of you tell me from your perspective what LEDLUM is all about.

Next up in the studio we speak with Mickey Madsen , He's the founder and CEO of Nordic Power Converters which is an innovative company in Denmark that designs and makes small drivers for LED lights. Joining Micky is Thomas Andersen also from Nordic power converters. They're here in Austria for the technical meeting for the LEDLUM project. Welcome gentlemen. Can one of you tell me from your perspective what LEDLUM is all about.

(Mickey Madsen) Well the project is all about making miniaturized power supplies for general LED lighting, making power supplies smaller, longer lasting and also cheaper to manufacture.

(Mickey Madsen) Well the project is all about making miniaturized power supplies for general LED lighting, making power supplies smaller, longer lasting and also cheaper to manufacture.

OK. And these are power supplies for LED lights that could be found where

OK. And these are power supplies for LED lights that could be found where

(Mickey Madsen) Anywhere from retail application, hospitality, industrial lighting, streetlights in general— it's its a new way of making power supplies which can be utilized.

(Mickey Madsen) Anywhere from retail application, hospitality, industrial lighting, streetlights in general— it's its a new way of making power supplies which can be utilized.

It seems to me creating the new driver is just a small investment into using LED as a future source of lighting so the European Commission obviously put money into this. They must feel that this is a technology that will have some payoff in the future as we know LED lighting is more efficient and smaller but your project intends to make it even smaller by reducing the size of the driver, is that is that right?

It seems to me creating the new driver is just a small investment into using LED as a future source of lighting so the European Commission obviously put money into this. They must feel that this is a technology that will have some payoff in the future as we know LED lighting is more efficient and smaller but your project intends to make it even smaller by reducing the size of the driver, is that is that right?

(Thomas Andersen) That's true yes. And basically the idea is increasing the frequency and in our case and thereby we can get the components smaller, reduce the price, reduce the weight. So that's one of the main goals of the LEDLUM project.

(Thomas Andersen) That's true yes. And basically the idea is increasing the frequency and in our case and thereby we can get the components smaller, reduce the price, reduce the weight. So that's one of the main goals of the LEDLUM project.

Okay. And right now this technical meeting, if we look at this we're sort of at the end of the project right? You have a few more months— 'till what, April of next year? Okay. So how is it coming so far— have you made anything, have you demonstrated your your concepts?

Okay. And right now this technical meeting, if we look at this we're sort of at the end of the project right? You have a few more months— 'till what, April of next year? Okay. So how is it coming so far— have you made anything, have you demonstrated your your concepts?

(Mickey Madsen) Yeah made a few demonstrators so far but we've been mainly been focusing on building blocks and so on. So now it's a good time for everything to come together and in an nice full system demonstrator, so we're quite busy in the last months to really demonstrate. But so far we have good results on subsystems and so on. But now we need to combine it all and show it all here the in the coming months. So we're expecting some some very nice end results but everything needs to come together on the end of last month.

(Mickey Madsen) Yeah made a few demonstrators so far but we've been mainly been focusing on building blocks and so on. So now it's a good time for everything to come together and in an nice full system demonstrator, so we're quite busy in the last months to really demonstrate. But so far we have good results on subsystems and so on. But now we need to combine it all and show it all here the in the coming months. So we're expecting some some very nice end results but everything needs to come together on the end of last month.

Okay. And then is there something is there a takeaway is there a product that comes out of this or any kind of tangible?

Okay. And then is there something is there a takeaway is there a product that comes out of this or any kind of tangible?

(Thomas Andersen) I wouldn't say that will come at direct product out of it but it will be in the right direction of a product showing the what what you really can gain out of this technology

(Thomas Andersen) I wouldn't say that will come at direct product out of it but it will be in the right direction of a product showing the what what you really can gain out of this technology

Since the project is ending, what happens when you, if you discover something really cool and then the project stops is this technology— can you leverage this in your own field or in your in your companies?

Since the project is ending, what happens when you, if you discover something really cool and then the project stops is this technology— can you leverage this in your own field or in your in your companies?

(Mickey Madsen) Yeah for sure you can say this project is heading right into the core of our company and what we're doing so so we can utilize the results from the project. And some of the results are, let's say good enough or advanced enough, mature enough that we can utilize in products for the coming few years and some of the results are on a more early let's research stage where they need to be matured more before we can utilize them in products and whether we can do that directly inside our own company or we need to continue that collaboration with some of the partners. That depends a bit on the results and we get here in the final months. So that's that's really exciting to see. How much are we getting the solutions in the coming months.

(Mickey Madsen) Yeah for sure you can say this project is heading right into the core of our company and what we're doing so so we can utilize the results from the project. And some of the results are, let's say good enough or advanced enough, mature enough that we can utilize in products for the coming few years and some of the results are on a more early let's research stage where they need to be matured more before we can utilize them in products and whether we can do that directly inside our own company or we need to continue that collaboration with some of the partners. That depends a bit on the results and we get here in the final months. So that's that's really exciting to see. How much are we getting the solutions in the coming months.

And how is the meeting going so far? I mean you get you sounds like you get together once or twice a year for these technical meetings?

And how is the meeting going so far? I mean you get you sounds like you get together once or twice a year for these technical meetings?

(Thomas Andersen) Yeah. That's why we're meeting. And beside from that we have also telcos where we are talking together. But it's really here when we have the physical meetings that we can look each other in the eyes and agree on stuff. Uh what should be the focus for for the next period of time and and until now it's uh it's it's really beneficial so a good plan is set for the last the coming month. And yeah. So it's really great to have these these meetings.

(Thomas Andersen) Yeah. That's why we're meeting. And beside from that we have also telcos where we are talking together. But it's really here when we have the physical meetings that we can look each other in the eyes and agree on stuff. Uh what should be the focus for for the next period of time and and until now it's uh it's it's really beneficial so a good plan is set for the last the coming month. And yeah. So it's really great to have these these meetings.

Uh okay and for the people who don't necessarily maybe understand how these projects work, what is in the end— what do you have to do? Do you have to show this to the European Commission do you have to give a report? It seems to me that you must have to show in some way that you've completed the project.

Uh okay and for the people who don't necessarily maybe understand how these projects work, what is in the end— what do you have to do? Do you have to show this to the European Commission do you have to give a report? It seems to me that you must have to show in some way that you've completed the project.

(Mickey Madsen) So we need to make a report in written format showing that we reach the target level at least close to the target that was set for the for the project but we also discussing how to make an event showing demonstrating live the performance of the solutions are developing during this project than we may also also making more public events inviting partners, customers and so on to see the results of this project. That's something we're discussing at this meeting and will probably conclude on the plans in general.

(Mickey Madsen) So we need to make a report in written format showing that we reach the target level at least close to the target that was set for the for the project but we also discussing how to make an event showing demonstrating live the performance of the solutions are developing during this project than we may also also making more public events inviting partners, customers and so on to see the results of this project. That's something we're discussing at this meeting and will probably conclude on the plans in general.

Looking back over the last couple of years because I believe this was a three year project, what kind of challenges did you see— maybe something that was not seen in the beginning

Looking back over the last couple of years because I believe this was a three year project, what kind of challenges did you see— maybe something that was not seen in the beginning

(Thomas Andersen) I guess you have some idea initially that you have some thoughts at this this could really work and then you start to work with it and you start to integrate between the partners in the project and then you see— oh, this this cannot work. We need to find another solution for it. I think there has been some there has been some things where we have looked into it and said that this this cannot be as we initially thought. There's a lot of research involved in this as well. And something just go slower than expected. So because we are also dependent on other partners outside of this consortium and and thinks takes time and it's something that you cannot really change and if it doesn't work the first time you need to try again with a slightly different way and that takes time again and that we have facing a couple of times. I think it's quite normal in this kind of long horizon protects...

(Thomas Andersen) I guess you have some idea initially that you have some thoughts at this this could really work and then you start to work with it and you start to integrate between the partners in the project and then you see— oh, this this cannot work. We need to find another solution for it. I think there has been some there has been some things where we have looked into it and said that this this cannot be as we initially thought. There's a lot of research involved in this as well. And something just go slower than expected. So because we are also dependent on other partners outside of this consortium and and thinks takes time and it's something that you cannot really change and if it doesn't work the first time you need to try again with a slightly different way and that takes time again and that we have facing a couple of times. I think it's quite normal in this kind of long horizon protects...

You're going down roads that haven't been exact explored before. So yeah, I suppose there's always some sort of roadblock that you have to jump over so to speak.

You're going down roads that haven't been exact explored before. So yeah, I suppose there's always some sort of roadblock that you have to jump over so to speak.

(Mickey Madsen) Yeah and then some of the process involved in this project takes quite some time. So if you find out that we've been going in the wrong direction or should pursue in other direction some of the process just means that it takes maybe a year before we can start the next iteration so that's also something that we need to learn. Yeah, with many different partners that works in different ways as well something to to make sure to utilize the resources in the right way and make sure that everybody gets the input and output from each other when they need it. So in order to to make them work right. That's easy in the beginning when you make a project plan and expect that everything will go as planned or as expected, but once reality hits then then you have to adapt and that's also a challenge to to find out how to make that efficient in a way that that works very well.

(Mickey Madsen) Yeah and then some of the process involved in this project takes quite some time. So if you find out that we've been going in the wrong direction or should pursue in other direction some of the process just means that it takes maybe a year before we can start the next iteration so that's also something that we need to learn. Yeah, with many different partners that works in different ways as well something to to make sure to utilize the resources in the right way and make sure that everybody gets the input and output from each other when they need it. So in order to to make them work right. That's easy in the beginning when you make a project plan and expect that everything will go as planned or as expected, but once reality hits then then you have to adapt and that's also a challenge to to find out how to make that efficient in a way that that works very well.

Okay. So for this project both of you are doing technical type things right. Do you have a certain capacity that you're acting in is it is it is that sort of an engineering kind of role.

Okay. So for this project both of you are doing technical type things right. Do you have a certain capacity that you're acting in is it is it is that sort of an engineering kind of role.

(Mickey Madsen) I'm the technical lead for the project then and mainly doing sort of the planning and so on and Thomas is doing a lot of the engineering work from from our company.

(Mickey Madsen) I'm the technical lead for the project then and mainly doing sort of the planning and so on and Thomas is doing a lot of the engineering work from from our company.

How does the EU measure up in terms of LED lighting technology versus the rest of the world for example?

How does the EU measure up in terms of LED lighting technology versus the rest of the world for example?

(Mickey Madsen) I think EU are performing good and have been for a long time and lighting in general but but are struggling with at least as a strong competition from from especially Asia where they have been very focused on let's say cost efficient solutions previously they are now starting to move more into the least mid end of the market with better design and better performance and better quality and European manufacturers are sort of struggling to to finding their way to secure— make sure that we continue to add more value than our cheaper competitors from from Asia and find ways to differentiate in the market on this one design quality features and so on but we need to bring something additional to the market. I think that's one of the places where LEDLUM can actually make a difference and make us capable of making products in a way that our competitors from especially Asia can do.

(Mickey Madsen) I think EU are performing good and have been for a long time and lighting in general but but are struggling with at least as a strong competition from from especially Asia where they have been very focused on let's say cost efficient solutions previously they are now starting to move more into the least mid end of the market with better design and better performance and better quality and European manufacturers are sort of struggling to to finding their way to secure— make sure that we continue to add more value than our cheaper competitors from from Asia and find ways to differentiate in the market on this one design quality features and so on but we need to bring something additional to the market. I think that's one of the places where LEDLUM can actually make a difference and make us capable of making products in a way that our competitors from especially Asia can do.

So, when you look at LEDLUM project the things that you're studying now is it reality to think that in five or 10 years this technology could be used in the consumer products that we see or the industrial products that we see out there?

So, when you look at LEDLUM project the things that you're studying now is it reality to think that in five or 10 years this technology could be used in the consumer products that we see or the industrial products that we see out there?

(Mickey Madsen) Yeah, for sure. I expect it to be much sooner than in 10 years. Maybe it's not within the first year but within three or five years for sure.

(Mickey Madsen) Yeah, for sure. I expect it to be much sooner than in 10 years. Maybe it's not within the first year but within three or five years for sure.

Okay. So what you're doing today has a real effect on the market in a few years down the road?

Okay. So what you're doing today has a real effect on the market in a few years down the road?

(Mickey Madsen) No doubt, I mean we can already now see the results of the project are good. If they are good or great that's what we will see in the coming months but they already know good enough that we for sure know that will utilize them in products going forward.

(Mickey Madsen) No doubt, I mean we can already now see the results of the project are good. If they are good or great that's what we will see in the coming months but they already know good enough that we for sure know that will utilize them in products going forward.

Are there any new or better lighting solutions that that might take over in this area such as laser light for example?

Are there any new or better lighting solutions that that might take over in this area such as laser light for example?

(Mickey Madsen) I don't know I can say that LEDs have changed the industry within a decade going from incandescent bulbs. So LED have been been changing very very fast. I think it's one of the fast changing changes in any industry whether that will happen again. I don't expect so but but people weren't expecting that LEDs would have changed the market so fast as they've done so for sure, LEDs will be used some places. I don't think it will be possible to compete on price with the with LEDs. OLEDs will probably also go and get into the market especially in designer ended lighting and so on. But the efficiency that at least for now it seems that you can get with OLED it's not as high as LEDs so I think for general lighting and the mass markets it's my expectation is that LEDs will be the standard also for the next decades to come. But laser lights and OLEDs will for you also get more into the market and in niches, Yeah.

(Mickey Madsen) I don't know I can say that LEDs have changed the industry within a decade going from incandescent bulbs. So LED have been been changing very very fast. I think it's one of the fast changing changes in any industry whether that will happen again. I don't expect so but but people weren't expecting that LEDs would have changed the market so fast as they've done so for sure, LEDs will be used some places. I don't think it will be possible to compete on price with the with LEDs. OLEDs will probably also go and get into the market especially in designer ended lighting and so on. But the efficiency that at least for now it seems that you can get with OLED it's not as high as LEDs so I think for general lighting and the mass markets it's my expectation is that LEDs will be the standard also for the next decades to come. But laser lights and OLEDs will for you also get more into the market and in niches, Yeah.

Are there any downsides to LED lighting

Are there any downsides to LED lighting

Well one of the downsides which we are trying to solve in this project is that while LEDs are good they are efficient, they are long lasting, they are small, giving you a new design opportunities and so on the driver is big and bulky limiting some of the designs that you have. It's also one of the main failure mechanisms so with an incandescent bulb for instance you don't you don't have this big brick of a power supply needed you can just plug the 230 volts into the bulb and you have a nice looking luminaire. Now you suddenly have a big bulky driver that you need to incorporate in the luminaire or hide under the ceiling or something like that. And in the same way the drivers responsible for roughly 90 percent of the failures in LED products meaning that even though LEDs are lasting long, some LED products fails much sooner than than expected. That can be solved as you are good in your engineering and so on. But I think many consumers have tried to to buy LED products expecting it to last for the next decade or two and finding out that after six months you need to change the bulb or something like that. So there are definitely some pitfalls and there are much much more factors to take into account the quality of the light coming from the least the flicker the power factor and THD there are many terms involved in LED lighting which weren't really a question with the incandescent bulbs because there's just more or less the same for all products.

Well one of the downsides which we are trying to solve in this project is that while LEDs are good they are efficient, they are long lasting, they are small, giving you a new design opportunities and so on the driver is big and bulky limiting some of the designs that you have. It's also one of the main failure mechanisms so with an incandescent bulb for instance you don't you don't have this big brick of a power supply needed you can just plug the 230 volts into the bulb and you have a nice looking luminaire. Now you suddenly have a big bulky driver that you need to incorporate in the luminaire or hide under the ceiling or something like that. And in the same way the drivers responsible for roughly 90 percent of the failures in LED products meaning that even though LEDs are lasting long, some LED products fails much sooner than than expected. That can be solved as you are good in your engineering and so on. But I think many consumers have tried to to buy LED products expecting it to last for the next decade or two and finding out that after six months you need to change the bulb or something like that. So there are definitely some pitfalls and there are much much more factors to take into account the quality of the light coming from the least the flicker the power factor and THD there are many terms involved in LED lighting which weren't really a question with the incandescent bulbs because there's just more or less the same for all products.

So when we as consumers walk into the lighting store and we see some really cool looking sleek designs that are really tiny we have you guys to thank. Exactly.

So when we as consumers walk into the lighting store and we see some really cool looking sleek designs that are really tiny we have you guys to thank. Exactly.

Do you have anything to add about LEDLUM?

Do you have anything to add about LEDLUM?

(Thomas Andersen)I think the next couple of months will become interesting to see the actual outcome, the final outcome of the project.

(Thomas Andersen)I think the next couple of months will become interesting to see the actual outcome, the final outcome of the project.

Yeah agreed. And so I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time out of your schedule to come down here and talk with us. I know that it's busy you have a lot of work to do. But it's nice to sit down and talk about some of the aspects of this project that might affect our listeners. So thank you for being here today.

Yeah agreed. And so I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time out of your schedule to come down here and talk with us. I know that it's busy you have a lot of work to do. But it's nice to sit down and talk about some of the aspects of this project that might affect our listeners. So thank you for being here today.

This podcast has been brought to you by Technikon. The LEDLUM project has received funding from the European Union's Horizon 2020 research and innovation programme under grant agreement. Number 7 3 1 4 6 6.

This podcast has been brought to you by Technikon. The LEDLUM project has received funding from the European Union's Horizon 2020 research and innovation programme under grant agreement. Number 7 3 1 4 6 6.