Optimus is More Human than it Looks But SpaceX Nails the Landing

Published Oct 15, 2024, 8:39 PM

In the wake of his disappointing “robotaxi” launch and Wall Street’s punishing response, Elon Musk had at least one reason to celebrate this past week: the successful deployment of a complicated rocket retrieval system. But that doesn’t mean we are done picking through the Robotaxi unveiling and how the Optimus robots weren’t really “robots.” To unpack these events, we have reporters Loren Grush and Dana Hull as well as Bloomberg Television correspondent Ed Ludlow. Then we feature reporter Kurt Wagner interviewing Kate Conger and Ryan Mac, co-authors of the recently published book, Character Limit: How Elon Musk Destroyed Twitter

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Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet.

More than half the satellites in space are owned and controlled by one man.

Well, he's a legitimate super genius. I mean legitimate.

He says he's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will be different.

He'll vote Republican.

There is a reason the US government is so reliant on him.

Alon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing. Anything he does, he's fascinating people.

Welcome to Elon, Inc, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. It's Tuesday, October fifteenth, and I'm your host, Max Chafkin. This week, in the wake of an more or less successful or not super successful Robotaxi launch, we're going to be talking about a mini flood of Elon news stories. We had a big win for SpaceX, as well as some legal trouble. There's the question of whether those really cool Optimist robots at the event were just people using remote controls. Then we'll turn the mic over to tech reporter and author Kurt Wagner, who had a great talk with Ryan Mack and Kate Conger about their new book on Twitter character limit. Okay, to break down the news, we have a real who's who of Elon reporters. Lauren Grush is joining us from Austin. She covers SpaceX for Bloomberg. Hey, Lauren, Hey, guys. Ed Ludlow, tech reporter, host of Bloomberg Technology is coming live to us from San Francisco. Ed, how you doing?

Very good?

Hello, And of course, our old friend and Bloomberg's official Elon Musk reporter Dana Hall beaming in from the Bay Area. Hello, Dana, Hi Max. All right, Lauren, let's start with you. SpaceX did something pretty impressive this week. It caught one of it's big starship Rockets, and what the script says, and I'm not making this up with giant chopsticks, and I'm hoping you can explain what that means and what exactly happened.

Yeah.

I feel like it takes a lot to surprise me at this point, just because I cover space so regularly, but this was one of those feats where I was actually very taken aback. It was a pretty stunning achievement. So if for anyone who follows SpaceX just casually, you probably know that they consistently land their Falcon nine rockets after launch, where they come back, they reignite their engines and then they land on landing legs. But with this it was a whole new type of recovery for their Starship rocket. So Starship is their vehicle that they hope to send to the Moon in Mars. It's quite massive, the most powerful, the largest rocket ever built, and essentially the booster portion which propels Starship to space, came back to Earth and rather than land on landing legs, it ignited its engines to slow itself down, and then two giant arms attached to the launch tower that it launched from protruded outward and caught the booster as it came down with these grid fins that are protruding from the booster. So you kind of have to watch the video to really get the full effect. I don't think I can describe it as well as the video shows it, but it was a pretty masterful feat. And I'll be honest, you know, I think there are a lot of skeptics, including myself, that were a little unsure about whether or not they could pull this off. But I watched it with my own two eyes. It was pretty incredible.

And I'm sorry, aren't these things called something like Mecca? Mecca was Mechazilla?

Yes, you know, SpaceX always loves to have a good funny name for the things that they built. So the Mechzilla chopsticks are the nicknames for these two arms that stick out of the launch tower.

Yeah. Elon Musk course has away with nicknames and names and also very good at these kind of you know, show stopping demonstrations. But Lauren, like, why is this impressive and like, what does it tell us about SpaceX's progress with this very large rocket.

Well, I think for me it was impressive just because the booster, which is called super heavy, is just so massive and you know, logically just doesn't make sense in my brain. The fins that stick out of it can are enough to hold up this massive booster in mid air basically. But really, the more impressive side of it is that Starship has been advertised as being fully reusable. So the Falcon nine, you know, it gets a lot of attention for being reusable, but it's only partially reusable. The upper portion of it actually doesn't survive or come back to Earth. And so this is a key step because you know, if Starship is going to be fully reasonable, you have to save both parts that part of the test flight. Starship did also survive its re entry through Earth's atmosphere, at least mostly. I did see some burn through of you know, the fins, but it did make it back more or less intact.

All right, ed put this in a context of SpaceX in general. A lot is happening with SpaceX. You know, a lot of progress with Starlink. I mean, what kind of year has this company had are they having right now?

So always challenging because of Elon Musk, because they are intensely followed by regulators and state officials and federal officials. But the easiest thing for anyone who wants to follow SpaceX, or has to follow SpaceX to do is take at face value the bigger picture goal. I'm never going to be able to put rocket science as poetically to you as Lauren Grush does, But if you look at each mission Starship just gone and say, okay, the goal was to catch the booster, and the secondary goal was to have Starship fall through Earth's atmosphere and not disintegrate, you have to accept that the longer term and bigger picture goal is to get mankind or humankind to being an InterPlaNet tree species and get humankind to Mars. And it's the kind of thing where your journalist and you're sitting with your editors, your dear friend Donah Hole or you know, the head of Bloomberg Television, and you sit in front of them and you say that and they just cannot accept it. But that's true.

Okay, let's move from deep space and Mars down to Earth.

Dana.

There's a bit of a fight going on right now between Elon Musk and some local officials in California over some of these launches, over the sort of plans for an expansion of these launches from I believe the Vanderberg Air Force Base, which is in California. What's going on with this?

Yeah, So I feel like a bit much has been made about this. The California Coastal Commission, which oversees California's very beloved and pristine coast like it's worried about the number of launches. But SpaceX, to be clear, they want to launch a lot, and they've got multiple launch pads. They've got Bokachika, they've got Vandenburg and California they've got the launch pad in Florida, and so like last week, the Coastal Commission said that they were like worried about giving SpaceX more launches because of like issues with labor rights. This is like a non binding rebuttal like it doesn't actually change anything, but Elon Musk is very upset about it. He said that SpaceX is going to sue the Coastal Commission today apparently we haven't seen an actual lawsuit, but it sort of plays into the larger narrative that Elan has been pushing, which is that he is a victim of law fair and that these pesky regulators, whether at the federal government or in California, are like constantly kind of trying to take him down, and that like we'll never get to Mars without with all this government bureaucracy. And so it kind of like plays into this narrative that he has really been on for quite some time. You know, ultimately, I'll be curious to see if SpaceX actually sues and on what grand.

All right, let's move to robots. Ed you wrote a story for Bloomberg, I believe, yesterday about these wonderful looking, these very impressive optimist robots. People at this Tesla event on Thursday could not believe it. The robots had different voices, they were cracking jokes, even spoke Spanish. But it appears, and according to your reporting, that there was a catch.

Yeah.

I did not go to the event. I tried very hard to, but I was not invited. Many people at the event could not believe that the Optimius robots were real, that they were really doing this autonomously. Some people did suspect that they might have had some help, and some people did ask the robot if it was having some help, and there was some confusing posts on X So I said, we have to confirm this, so I phoned everyone that I know, and what we reported is that, yeah, absolutely, these Optimist spots were helly operated in the interactions they had with the guests at the event.

And teller operated means remote control.

Right exactly, there were remotely controlled. So there were Tesla's staff in a warehouse essentially not off site, but away from the festivities, controlling their movement and I believe their voice as well, though that is a point of contention. Specifically, we're talking about things like pouring drinks, and we're talking about games of rock, paper, scissors, and high fives. However, there were parts of the Optimus robot's function on the ground, which I'm told by sources was autonomous, but it's limited to walking around, which is still a very impressive feat, although there are other robotics companies that have achieved that historically. And dancing, so, for example, there are clips out there where members of the audience are like doing dances and the Optimus bot mimics the dance, and my understanding from sources is yes, that is something the Optimist did of its own artificially intelligent volition. There's one important point that I added to my reporting late late in the evening after the story was published, which is this was a classic Elon Musk thing. Basically, three weeks ago before the event, he decided he wanted to have the robots at the event, and so he told the team that's in charge of Optimus, make this happen, and they were all like, we cannot make this happen. There isn't enough time. The Optimist robot isn't ready, and so teleoperation or remote control was the only option.

My favorite thing about this story is imagining there were like fifty Optimist robots or something, and imagining fifty individual Tesla employees in little phone booths somewhere on that soundstage, you know, having to play rock paper scissors with all these like car influencers. Dan, what are we even talking about here? What is opt I thought this was a cyber cab event. Why are we even talking about this?

Well, I think the fact that the cyber cab event itself was so lackluster is probably why the robots came out, Because when they announced the event, they called it we Robot, which is like nod to Isaac Asimov. And I was telling everyone internally like oh yeah, like okay, this is not just about the robotexie. This is clearly also about optimists. And this is all part of like Musk's whole thing of positioning Tesla as not a car maker, but as an AI and robotics company. That's where the future is. And you know optimists right now, like a couple of them work in the Fremont factory. They like sort batteries. I mean eventually they'll probably be put to work digging tunnels on Mars. He was sort of pitching optimists as like your buddy, like that you could hire optimists to mow your lawn and babysit your kids and be.

Your friend, well babysitster in some ways.

Lauren, You know, my impression here is that we're seeing some stuff that just sounds very unserious, right, like kind of a blown demo or maybe a muff demo over promises. You see people sort of criticizing this event, saying Elon Musk is attracted. On the other hand, of course, SpaceX had this wonderfully successful demonstration almost at the exact same time. Do you any sense of what is going on, like why we're seeing what feels like a bit of a divergence between the two companies.

I've always said that when it comes to SpaceX, it's just a type of technology really can't fake, you know, and I'm not trying to insinuate that there is any faking going on, but you know, when it comes to launching rockets, like it's a very visible medium and you can see in real time they all have to work as predicted or else you get some very explodey reactions. So I think it's just more of kind of a forcing function that when you launch rockets there really is no room for error or faking, and so they have to get it working correctly. You know, I think that's kind of been my thesis, But I can't really speak to why there's a little more smoke and mirrors. I guess at the Tesla side of things than the SpaceX of things.

He isn't often right on the timeline, but in many cases he gets there in the end.

Dana final word here.

My big take was like Elon is just bored of building cars. That just seemed very obvious to me. He didn't talk about the business case for the ROBOTAXI, he didn't talk about the potential for Tesla to ever make a cheaper car. But Mars and getting to Mars has been like his overriding mission since he was like a kid, Like that is like the reason why he founded SpaceX. And so you're always going to see SpaceX pushing the envelope and really being like the gold standard for what is possible and what is achievable. And I remember, you know, like when SpaceX was first trying to land rockets on drone ships and they would miss and miss and miss, and then they finally nailed it, and that was like a big thing. And so they're constantly pushing the envelope, whereas with Tesla, they're way behind Weimo in terms of actually having like an operational license to run driverless cars as a robotaxi service in a city like San Francisco, and frankly, they're way behind like Boston Dynamics in terms of robotics. And so it's just wild to see the Tesla, which is this company that really ushered in the electric vehicle era, now trying to push robotics as this thing that they're gonna slay in when they're behind the competition.

Let's end it there, Lauren dana Ed, thank you for being here.

Thank you very much, Thank you, Take care.

And now over to Kurt Wagner's interview with Kate Conger and Ryan Mack, two New York Times reporters who recently came out with a book called Character Limit, How Elon Musk Destroyed Twitter. It details the acquisition of Twitter and the first year at the company. Kurt, of course, wrote his own book on the subject, Battle for the Bird, Jack Dorsey, Elon Musk and the forty four billion dollar Fight for Twitter Soul. Kurt's book covers the twisty lead up to the acquisition. Character Limit covers the messy aftermath, so it's an ideal pairing. And with that preamble, here's Kurt interviewing Kate Conger and Ryan Mack.

Okay, let's welcome to Elon, Inc. The authors of the recent book Character Limit. Ryan Mack and Kate Conger from The New York Times.

Welcome guys, Hey, Kurt, thanks so much for having us.

We're really excited to talk to you.

I feel like I know the story as well as most should, and I learned a ton from what you guys put together. I think one of the things I still sort of don't really know the answer to, even though we're two years later, is like, did Elon really want to buy Twitter? Did he sort of fall into this thing almost unintentionally? Like what drove him? I guess I'm curious what your best theory is for why he felt he needed to own this platform.

I think of Elon, I think of someone who gives himself missions, and he likes to give himself like a higher reasoning or a higher calling for doing the things he does, whether that's getting people to Mars or electrifying cars and helping the environment. You know, there's always something more beyond the sense of business reason, I guess, and we could see in his text messages, you know he was he was annoyed with the Babylon Bee, he was annoyed with Trump being the platformed, the free speech thing. But at the end of the day, like Twitter was his like favorite thing in the world. He spent hours and hours every day on it. He was It's where he cultivated his community. He loved talking to people on there, he loved brawling, he loved trolling. And in the same way you know, Steve Balmer might buy the Clippers or Jeff Bezos might buy a yacht, you know, Elon must bought a company, and that is is kind of how we understand it's his favorite toy.

Yeah, the book is full of anecdotes, full of color, full of stories of course of Elon. I'm wondering if you both have maybe a favorite that you'd want to call out, Like, is there something that stands out from your reporting?

Yeah?

I think for me, I think a lot about Elon's own narrative of himself. And you know, he's explain that in many many interviews and his authorized biography, But he often talks about himself as someone who was a victim of abuse from both his father and his classmates when he was young, and how formative that was for him, and how you know, being deprived of that kind of love and affection and sort of unconstrained kindness when he was a child drove him to be someone who is very disciplined and who had to prove his worth right and wanted other people to prove their worth to him. I think that's really interesting, and I think it's you know, really tragic as well, especially now as we see him kind of playing out these patterns of abuse and hardship against his own family and the people who are close to him. And I see that especially in the book. There's this section where he is planning to have another child with Grimes via surrogate. They've picked out a name for the baby, Valkyrie, and at the same time, he is in secret from Grimes having children with one of his employees at Neuralink, chevon Zillas, and those children Chavon's children are born prior to the baby with Grimes. He names one of those children Valkyrie and basically steals the name from his child with Grimes and applies it to this other child. You know, and then Grimes finds out obviously is very heartbroken, writes a whole song about the experience and talks about sort of a mother's pain and being robbed of the name that she's chosen for her daughter. But it really I think portrays Elon as someone who views even the people who are closest to him as interchangeable. Their names can be interchanged, their bodies can be interchanged, their skills can be interchanged, and he doesn't hold back from doing harm because of the hurt it might cause to other people.

Wow.

Yeah, that is a pretty crazy story there, Ryan. Do you have one that comes to mind for me?

The one thing that stands out that we've reported on is on Twitter Blue launch day. You know, he's got this plan to sell the badges. It's going to reinvigorate the company, is going to make so much money off the sale of these badges. And he goes into the meeting room and he's talking with the product folks and the engineers in the room, and they really have a lot of concerns. This is going to upend what people understand about verification. They're concerned about what happens in emergency situations when let's say, I don't know, if some fire department announces there's an oncoming hurricane or tornado warning or something like that, what does that mean? And he basically says to them in a quote like you know, we're going to be shooting from the hip in real time, and everyone just has their hands on their heads and they're like, people could really get hurt so much to the point where an engineer who's calling in says like, at what point do we shut off this? Like when do we know that we've hit a real problem? And Elon responds to him when someone dies or someone gets really hurt, that's when we're going to, you know, stop what we're doing. And I was just like, that's that's not a responsible way to launch a product. It's extremely dangerous.

Both of your anecdotes here like have similar themes, right, which is that to your point, he's not really taking other people into account. How does he justify that or do you feel like you know how he justifies that?

Yeah, I think Elon's thought process is sort of one that's common in Silicon Valley, but he takes it to a new extreme. But it's this idea of long termism where whatever harm I might do in the present is worth it if I've done something that fifty one hundred years down the road is going to have an immense impact for all of humanity. And I think Elon really thinks that way, and a lot of other folks in Silicon Valley do as well. You know, we've seen this a lot with self driving and with the gig economy, where there are these justifications of like, it's okay if you know a child gets run over by a self driving car or there's some kind of mishap that happens in a ride hail, because fifty one hundred years down the road, we will have saved far more lives through preventing drunk driving or preventing human error in cars.

I mean, it's very clear how I think probably you both feel about how the Twitter experiment has gone. Right. The subtitle of your book is how Elon Musk destroyed Twitter. There have been many missteps, I think we could probably all agree in the past two years. Is there one that's maybe been the biggest problem for you know, the biggest mistake that he's made. Ryan, you mentioned Blue Verify That to me actually may maybe top of my list in terms of just like eroding value and trust in this company.

For me, it would be the fundamental Hubris. He came in with the confidence and the lack of understanding of advertising. You know, he bought an advertising social you know social network based on advertising that where it draws ninety percent of its business from and to alienate advertisers almost from day one. I think on day one he had that like very conciliatory, like he wrote a very good note and it was like, you know, my ownership is not going to drive you away. I'm not going to have more misinformation. I'm not going to have more hate. And from that day on, it's gone downhill and he's scared people and advertisers away to the point where he is suing advertising groups for not advertising on X And like that is I think like an original sin for me if I'm analyzing the deal.

Yeah, it sounds so sort of obvious or basic, but like the lack of understanding of the main core business I think has struck a lot of people as a surprise when he came in. Kate, was there something for you?

Yeah? You know, I think if I try to get Elon pilled for a second and really believe in him as an entrepreneur. You know, what I see is the technical prowess, right, the things that he's been able to do with Tesla and SpaceX, and I see a lack of innovation with X, and I think that that is something that a lot of people expected from him. You know, search is often broken. So much of my reporting work is deep diving back into historic tweets, and that's very hard to do on the platform. It often does not work. The technology for spaces is now quite degraded, and when he tried to host former President Trump for a conversation, they couldn't get it going for forty five minutes. We've heard from him about how he wants to include payments, how he wants to include video, how he wants to kind of cannibalize audience from TikTok. None of those things are happening, and so I think if you look at it from a pro Elon perspective, the innovation is quite disappointing.

How much of this do you pin on sort of his network of advisors, right, because I think one of the great parts about your reporting in the book is just how often he's listening to people who may not be experts in the advice that they're giving and in some cases reacting to anonymous Twitter users, right like advice or feedback from you know, random account with four thousand followers.

I think that is a factor. But ultimately, you know, he is the decision maker on things. He loves to be in the weeds and to be very hands on with product and from you know, the most random details we heard from people who are talking to him about the exact pixel placement of something on the screen, or the fact that he didn't want the copy that went to the app store to have a comma in it.

You know.

When we were writing the book, there is a day Ryan came over to me and he'd been interrupting me all day and I was like, leave me alone. He's like, you have to look at this. And it was because Elon had seen a tweet from a Nicki minaj Stan account that was complaining about the look of the official badges that he was planning to give to governments and to fire departments, emergency services, transit authorities, things like that. They said it looked bad, and he brought the tweet to people at Twitter and like, we have to take this down because this Nicki Minaj fan account doesn't like it and they think it looks dumb.

You know, it's a bad And I was like, I couldn't believe it was crazy the amount of influence that some random Twitter user can have on this company.

It's so strange because we think of Elon as kind of the alpha, like the decision maker. And in the book there's plenty of examples where he has this small circle of advisors. I think of people like David Sachs or Jason Kalakanis where he'll listen to them despite their lack of expertise, and that happened over and over again throughout the book, and I don't know it just it kind of shows that there was very little planning in this, in this takeover, and he was just kind of soliciting advice from everywhere, including Twitter itself.

Yeah. I mean, and especially now what we see X has become right. I think I wrote a newsletter right after the debate a few weeks ago, and I think I call it sort of just an extension. It's like truth social but X right, it's whatever two point zero or something. It really does feel at times like it is so politically charged. Politically polarizing. Do you both feel like, is are we ever going to go back to maybe a world in which politics is like a secondary or even further down priority for X. Like where do you see this moving forward from a content perspective.

I mean, I think the comparison to truth Social is apt. You know, truth Social is a platform that's all about one man, and X is increasingly a platform that's all about a different man. It's so funny because I think the wisdom of Twitter for a long time was you never want to be the main character on Twitter. But Elon does want to be the main character on X and he often successfully is that. So he really has made the platform about himself and I don't see his politics taking a back seat at this point. He's really thrown himself all into this political crusade.

Yeah, I would agree. I mean, he just passed two hundred million followers and I just opened up the for you page just to see what it looked like. And he's within the first five tweets or posts every time, like he is the one that drives whatever people are talking about on the platform.

Well, I would say too, it's not just like a ViBe's approach you know, researchers have documented that the platform has shifted significantly to the right, not necessarily because they're more right wing users joining, but because more left wing users are leaving, you know, And we've also seen really significant growth in reach for accounts that he's brought back. So like the Alex jones Is of the world that he's reinstated on the platform have been able to grow their presence really significantly and you know, grow their voice, grow their agenda that they're pushing, and so that has really changed the tenor of the platform. It's not just like I'm opening up my feed and this is what I'm seeing based on who I follow, but it is sort of like a network.

Yeah, all right, listen on an Elon question, I'm curious how you're for both of you, how your feelings about Elon changed through the reporting of your book. Right, I'm sure you both followed him closely enough to maybe come in with at least some sense of who he was and the type of leader he is, the type of technologisty is, et cetera. What I imagine all the interviews and the research and the things that went into writing the book probably changed that perspective. Over time, and I'm curious where how it changed it and where you feel sort of about Elon Musk.

I think it disillusioned me a little bit on the idea that he has this sort of grand plan. I think because you know, I didn't cover him as closely as Ryan did prior to the takeover. I was just covering Twitter, and he kind of came into that space. But you know, I think because there's this big mythos around him that he's created of being this self made businessman with sort of all these ingenious ideas, I was interested in seeing some of that come to fruition. And it was interesting to me and I think surprising to me to realize how little of a plan he had for any of these things. I mean, we talked earlier about his decision to make the acquisition, to make the offer, and how that was not thought through. His decision to launch Twitter Blue and paid verification was not thought through. You know. The layoffs when he took over the company were absolute mayhem and a chaos, and it was just people like scrambling to assemble lists in Google docs, and people begging to be put on the layoff list and begging to be taken off and people trying to, you know, save coworkers who were in the States on a visa and needed to continue their employment. Like there was no rhyme or reason to any of that. And I think to see that over and over again really was revealing of how little strategy comes with some of these decisions.

Ryan went about you for me.

I've been covering him since about twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, and we all remember twenty eighteen when he does the funding Secured tweet and the pedal Guy tweet and ends up being sued by the SEC. He ends up being sued by the cave rescuer he called the pedophile, and he comes out of both things almost scott free. The SEC find him personally twenty million dollars. He's found not liable for damages in the pedro Guy trial in twenty nineteen, and I think he comes out of that just with this realization that he's untouched. You know that there is no accountability, There's no way of holding someone that rich accountable, Like what is a twenty million dollar fine to someone who's worth a quarter of a trillion dollars now? And we spent two years reporting this book and this, you know, reputation destroying incident with the buying of this company, the destruction of its value. It's done nothing to him, you know, It's it's he's just as rich. He has a new AI company that he's built off the corpse of this, this social network that is that is now valued at twenty eight billion dollars. He has more government regulators looking at him than ever, but there's nothing that will hold him accountable. And I think that realization has only grown through the years, and as we've reported this book, as we've reported more on him, to the point where he is he's just a character that is just so unique, Like there is no one else like him, no one else richer than him, and no one else that has as much power as him like he is. He's untouchable. I don't know what that means for us the society, but you know, it's just that's what it is.

Yeah, Well, a little bit of a bleak way to end, but it was a great conversation. The book is called Character Limit. It's obviously full of great detailed, great color. You guys did a wonderful job, So Ryan Mack and Kate Conger, thank you both. For being on elon Ek.

Thanks Kurt, Thank you Kurt.

This episode was produced by Stacy Wong. Naomi Shaven and Rayhan Harmanci are our senior editors. The idea for this very show also came from Rayhun. Blake Maples handles engineering, and Bill Elstrom fact checks. Our supervising producer is Magnus Hendrickson. The Elonik theme is written and performed by Taka Yazuzawa and Alex Sagiera. Brendan Francis Newnham is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcast. Big thank you to our supporter Joel Weber. I'm Max Chafkin. If you have a minute, rate and review our show, it'll help other listeners find us and we will see you next week.

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