Elon, Inc.In our inaugural episode, we take a close look at the latest industry Musk wants to disrupt: artificial intelligence. We also discuss something that might disrupt Elon: after scoring big union wins in Detroit, UAW's Shawn Fain has set his eyes on Tesla.
This episode is hosted by Bloomberg executive editor David Papadopoulos, who is joined by Bloomberg Businessweek senior reporter Max Chafkin, Bloomberg editor Sarah Frier and senior reporter Dana Hull.
Elon Muskee is on most days, the richest person on Earth. He's the co founder and or head of no fewer than six companies Tesla, SpaceX, Boring, neurlink X, and Xai. Of course, he also co founded PayPal. He employs more than one hundred thousand people working on technologies that impact our day to day lives and could usher in our future. His influence, whether it's in space, social media, the automotive industry, or increasingly in geopolitics, is vast. Every day Elon is making headlines, and so it can be hard to keep up with the onslaught to help you figure out what matters, we have assembled a panel of Bloomberg experts on all things Elon to discuss and sometimes to argue about what he's doing in the world.
Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet.
More than half the satellites in space are owned and controlled by one man.
Starting his own artificial intelligence company.
Well, he's a legitimate super gene.
Legitimate.
He says.
He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will be different.
He'll vote Republican.
There is a reason the US government is so reliant on him.
Alon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing.
Anything he does, he's fascinating the people.
Hello and welcome to the inaugural episode of Elon Inc. My name is David Papadopoulos. This is a brand new weekly podcast that will dissect the biggest stories about one of the world's most powerful and polarizing men. This week, we'll start with AI. In the last few days, Musk sat down with UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak to discuss the opportunities and risks AI brings, and he rolled out GROC his answer to AI Internet sensation chat GBT. Meanwhile, other pieces of his empire are demanding his attention. As is the usual, the United Auto Workers union president set his sits on Tesla just days after scoring an historic payhike for workers in Detroit. The billionaire could face his most serious labor fight yet. To discuss this and more, we brought in Sarah Fryar, who oversees our coverage of the biggest companies in Silicon Valley. Hello, Hello, Sarah. Dana Hall, who began covering Tesla for us when the stock was worth less than one tenth of what it is today. Dana, good morning, and Max Chafkin, reporter, editor and troublemaker at Bloomberg Business Week. Hey, Hey, so we're going to start indeed with XAI, and we're going to start with.
You, Sarah.
What does GROC do and Visa VI all the rivals in the market today, how does it stack up any idea?
Well, first of all, first thing you need to know about GROC is none of the media has had an opportunity to test this thing. It is yet another chat bot in the mix, much like chat Gibt or Bart or any of the others. And this top selling point is that it is it is supposed to be snarky, irreverent, funny. Elon Musk posted on x formerly known as Twitter where he asked the chatbot how to make cocaine and he responded with, you know, a joking set of instruction.
It was a good answer though.
It was a good answer, So that's kind of the vibe. And I think it's important to know that this is deeply integrated with x the social media platform, but it is not part of x It is a separate company, XAI, and this partnership provides the top selling point for this chatbot, which is that it will be trained on real time Twitter data sorry X data.
Yeah, so yeah, they they You know, I heard Musk spinning that as something that really will separate it from rivals, is.
That it will absolutely separate it from rivals to have that real time information. However, that is also the scary thing because as we know, X can be accessible sometimes.
You know, Max. One of the things that jumps out at me a little bit is when you look at the stock market in twenty twenty three and what's're driving all the gains in the stock market, It has largely largely been AI. Right by one crewde measurement, AI has added twenty percentage points to the Nasdaq's rally this year. Seen another way, you take Microsoft in the video two leaders in AI or the two leaders in A, and they've contributed more to the gains in the S and P five hundred than any other stock by orders of magnitude. So I'm wondering, is he rushing grocout now, perhaps before it's ready to try to tap into this storyline?
Obviously, Yes, he is obviously rushing grocout before it's ready. The press release slash website that they put up notes that they've only had something like two months of work on this thing. They've they've they just started this company really in the past few months. The website lists a lot of like very detailed technical information about grock. It claims that there's certain certain benchmarks it's sort of holding up well against, like the Facebook version of chat GPT, but maybe a little behind GPT four, which is like the most up to date version of the best one of these models. The port of thing to keep in mind is like this as until people start actually using this, I think it's worth like thinking about this as vaporware or not even taking it seriously as a real product.
The one tangible outcome of grock right now is that it is the reason the only reason to buy X Premium Plus, because it is only available through X Premium Plus. So as a little background, there are some some tiers of.
Subscription for X, which is a new thing.
Which is a new thing this just started. It used to just be that there was a one premium tier, but now there are three. In the top tier gives you access to this chatbot when it comes out of beta. We don't know when that will happen, but that is that is one reason people are spending sixteen dollars a month, or you know, if you're buying from the app.
So serah, fright, is this going to be the thing? Is this a silver bullet for X? X has been obviously struggling. It's a well known story from the moment that that Musk purchased it a year ago. Does this help X?
I mean every little bit helps that they're so desperate they're trying to like sell user names for money for like a few tons of thousands of dollars. I think you know this is this is a company that has lost more than sixty percent of its advertiser revenue. They have had a drop in users. They're struggling, they have mountains of debt to repay to banks, and this is a way to give people something tangible to buy.
So, Dana, he's got Xai, an ai company, and it's and and it's very interrelated with X. But then of course he's got Tesla, where he's got a whole nother artificial intelligence thing going on, and that is truly like the crown jewel of his artificial intelligence.
Right right, And to Max's point, he's always trying to position Tesla as being at the vanguard of what's next. So, back in twenty twenty one, on an earnings call, Musk said, and this is a direct quote, I think long term people will think of Tesla as much as an AI and robotics company as we are a car company or an energy company. And so you know, he's part like Tesla's part of the Magnificent seven because they're using AI and nermalness.
Are we gonna We're gonna use a magnificent seven term?
What is that? It's a bloomberg.
It's the seven most magnificent stocks in the world.
Oh, I thought that was like a finance thing that everyone knew. It's like, it's like the top seven companies in the It's like the Nvidia, it's like the AI company.
By the way, it's four here, a magnificent four. Yeah, but in any of it. Right, So he's positioning it as it's not just right, it certainly not just about the hardware and the but we are an AI company.
Well, right, so electric vehicles are becoming mainstream, how does Tesla differentiate itself. Well, we don't just make electric cars. We make electric cars that can drive themselves. Not really like they've never actually accomplished that, but they are using AI to train the cars to try to try to drive themselves. And so that's like a big promise of Tesla's valuation right now is that they're not just a car company, They're an AI company. And that's the drum that Elon has been beating for years now.
Mentioned at the beginning that when you first started covering Tesla, it was worth a tiny fraction of what it is today. Indeed, a lot of that great valuation. I don't know the exact number off the top of my head, but I think it's worth something around eight hundred billion dollars. A lot of that is that whole AI play that value, right, that's sense that down the road AI and what it does in terms of autonomous driving and all that is going to make this company hoodles and noodles and money.
Yeah, and they're using the same system to train optimists the robot, which is the robot that is eventually going to replace the factory workers. But I think, you know, back to the point of X dot AI, like max, is it even a real company? Like do we even know how many people work at this?
I mean, okay, he does silly stuff. He makes a fool of himself, very easy to make fun of him for the stuff he tweets or posts or whatever. That said, the guy has a lot of respect from scientists and engineers, and there are real AI engineers who have who have signed up to work at this thing. That said, what David described and what Sarah was describing earlier about the company does not make like a ton of sense. So large language models depend on like truth. And that's why, like open AI when it was like figuring out how to build its model, it's scanning books, Encyclopa, Wikipedia, stuff that has a lot of eyeballs on it and is like known to be true. Because large language models, even when they're based on stuff that's true, make stuff up Twitter. If anybody's been using x over the past few months, you know, during the you know, conflict in Israel, during the war in Ukraine and so on, it's it's full of crap. It's full of stuff that is false or made up or exaggerated or whatever, and it's gotten worse and worse. It's not the kind of thing you want to build a model on. The second thing is these open AI and so on, they cannot do current information. The reason they can't do current information is because you can't retrain your model constantly. It costs a huge amount of money to retrain these models. So the ambition to make this this groc or gronk or whatever, it's going to be grock to make it like up to date with tweets and stuff. If that were to come to pass, it would cost a fortune. It would cost even more. Open AI, the best of these companies is losing huge sums of money. If Elon Musk is able to do this, it will be very, very expensive. You know, it might actually draw people to X super plus premium or whatever whatever this like high end version is ex premium plus. Is that it? But it's gonna cost way more than twenty two dollars a month.
But it is a thought there that you're losing money now, but you're you know, volume, and you're scaling, and that down the road.
Races are going to come up in theory, right people, Microsoft and these big companies are able to extract value of it.
But has losing money ever been something that Musk worries about when he's building something new? I mean, I this this you can also I always think, you know, with must we have to think about as his psychology, there's a lot of history here. He was the the person who started open ai alongside Sam Altman, back when it was supposedly a nonprofit. He gave tens of millions of dollars to the cause. He was quite concerned or something. Isn't he the artificial general.
Right in general, Sarah. Isn't he been one of the biggest voices out there saying warning of the of the dangers of.
About to say He's talked to world leaders about that recently. You know, he he's concerned about AI, you know, replacing human consciousness. He he is on a mission to preserve human consciousness. That's that's maybe the reason he backed into for why he bought Twitter. Whether or not that was that's something he came up with after the fact, I don't know. But but there's a there's a lot of a lot of existing tension between him and Sam Altman, who's now the leader of open AI. Open Ai just had its demo day, like a couple of days after Musk released Rock. So I think there's some some competitive landscape that we're playing.
Oh, Elon is totally competitive, he'd like and he's got to be. He's got to be. He's got to be in the arena, you know, like it's not enough to do cars and rockets. If AI is the hot new thing, he's got to be in there. And if there's like personal history, he's going to go for the jugular. And they've been training barbs.
Yeah. And to answer your question, like, it's the same as with autopilot, right the Tesla. Tesla's full self driving capabilities do not The Tesla does not drive itself without a human yet. But the plan, obviously, if you're a bull and you really believe in the stock, is that you know, in the long run, this company is going to replace essentially all of transportation. We're all gonna, you know, have robotic Tesla's driving us around. It's going to completely reimagine the world. Same thing here, right, like Elon Musk's stated goal, and to some extent, I think the goal of the venture capitalists and so on who are backing similar companies is artificial general intelligence, Like we can we'll have software that you know, can solve any problem for us. I think there are really good reasons to be skeptical both of you know, the immediate prospects of artificial general intelligence, even the long term ones as well, as the prospects of like full self driving, like both of these things closer.
Than they're warning us about the future of AI, and Musk was among the leaders that call for a pause and development for ethical reasons. Are also the ones that are saying, hey, trust me.
So sir, he it was just six months ago that he called for that pause, and then he launches this. But I guess what is his argument, Well, I called for a pause, No one listened to the pause, so the hell with it?
Will Wall Well, just like signed a letter, Like he just was a signatory on a letter about a pause while he was building his own company, Like give me a break.
I mean, also the pause stuff, I think it's worth like taking all that with some skepticism just because like it's amazing marketing. Like I think this is true with Elon, this is true with Sam Altman's true with all these guys. If you're like, you're like, this technology is so dangerous it could eventually like take over the world, and you can have it for yourself for only twenty two dollars a month, it's a really powerful enticement if you're trying to sign people up for a technology where the use cases are not totally clear, Like beyond making funny posts on social media, it also makes.
It seem inevitable, right, and all these ethical concerns, misinformation concerns, things that are wrapped into aire are just you know, going to happen no matter what, and they're everyone's problem and that takes accountability away from the people who are building in so Sarah.
So he also recently sat down with Rishi Suak, the Prime Minister of the UK, to discuss AI. How did that conversation go? What did did we learn anything new from this from this long sit down.
With Well, it was great for Elon. I think. I think Sunek.
Was was quite excited for the opportunity, as some people are when they're in Elon's orbit. I think you got to keep them close and and you never know when. The fun thing about Elon Musk is he's involved in geopolitics, He's involved in in every industry and so love him or hate him, you got to be friends with him in some respects. I thought it was really interesting he who knows what he truly believes here, but he said that that eventually jobs won't be necessary.
Will come a point where no job is needed.
You can have a job if you want to have a job for sort of personal satisfaction. But the AI will be able to do everything, we won't have jobs. He praised Sunak for involving China in the in the AI Future conference, said that, you know, we need to be thinking about their role here too. But yeah, I think I think, you know, he's been doing this sort of world tour. I think that he wishes.
But he recently met with Israel, Israel's Prime Minister BB yeah.
Before the conflicts, met with from Turkey. It's a long long He was part of the panel, the Schumer AI panel, and and I think, I think honestly he wishes he had the same reverence from Joe Biden. I think that that is. That is one takeaway that I heard from a lot of the Elon fans like oh Man, I wish, I wish Joe Biden looked at Elon musks the way.
All right, So so before we before we talk unions and cars in a second, I want one last question on this, which is for you Max. So the Labor Party in England hasn't has indeed been on Rishi Sunac's case for saying how that he was so diffusive in his praise and excited to be there. It seemed like he was angling for his next job post Primier Prime Prime ministership. So I guess it would basically like keep trying to be pulling a Yacharino as it were, right where you were, Linda Yacharina, where you interview Musk en route to landing.
He's the CEO of x Ovax now after.
She had interviewed Musk on stage a few months back. So if he pulls this off, Max, what job does Elon Musk give Rihi?
Well, first of all, he should call Linda Yakarino before he you know, follows through with this plan, because like I know, officially, Linda Yacharino is really excited about sports on Twitter and is really excited about everything about x and everything.
But there is a job he loves everything.
This is not a good job. And and so Rishi, if you're listening, uh, just I want you to think about it carefully. That said, I think the boring company, Uh, you know, Elon Musk is not gonna You're not gonna. You're not talking one of the primo jobs. I'd say in that Elon vers you're talking about sort of a lower level drop. Then again, he was a chief executive, so I think a CEO route role would be, uh, would be appropriate. So I'm going boring, but also tunnels infrastructure kind of kind of in line with for someone who has a tunnel, right, Yeah, there's a tunnel.
A channel, A very nice I like that. I think that's a good call. That's that's one to watch. We will we will keep an eye on on that going forward. Welcome back, Okay, So Dana on the home front, Musk has an issue looming on the horizon, which is uh, the fact that Sean Fain, the leader of the u a W the United Auto Workers, has targeted Tesla and said he's coming for Tesla. After scoring historic gains wage games for auto workers at four General Motors and Stilantis, he says he's coming for Tesla. Here's Fain in his own way.
For weeks, we've seen an army of analysts and pundits crying that our union was going too far, that we were demanding too much. They said they weren't sure if we would ever get a deal, and then we got all three.
So, Dana, who exactly is Sean Fain? What does he represent and does he stand a chance at actually organizing labor at Tesla, something that has failed time and again in the past.
So Sean Faine is the new face of the United Auto Workers. He's this kind of like militant, you know, and I don't say that in a disparaging way, but like he's this like new militant head of the UAW. He just won this historic victory in Detroit after six weeks, and now he's going to try to organize everywhere. And there are a lot of auto plants in the United States that are not union. It's not just Tesla, it's like everywhere in the South, Like you know, Volkswagen, Toyota, and Nissan, they all have these plants that are not unionized. And I think the UAW just has to be really strategic. They just won this huge victory in Detroit. Where are they gonna where are they going to organize next? And of course they're going to say we're organizing at TESLA. I mean, they're going to organize everywhere. But I think what will be interesting to watch is where do they actually put in their resources to develop a real campaign. I think that they would have a much easier time trying to organize a plant where they where they had like at least gotten to a vote before. At Tesla, they've never even gotten to a vote.
So what would some.
Of those plants be where they've had votes some of them and some of the plants in the South.
Yeah, plants in the South, like like I mean Volkswagons Plant and Chattanooga, Tennessee comes to mind. So, like organizing a campaign, it's like a long process. You need to get like multiple workers on multiple shifts to all be pro union, and they don't have that at Tesla right now. Like we reported a couple of days ago that there's an organizing committee at Tesla. Okay, that's great, but like in order to have like a union, you need, like I mean Tesla the Fremont plant employees twenty thousand people, You need like thousands of people to be very pro union in order to ever get the momentum to get to a vote. Like when they tried last time in twenty eighteen, it was like it was like a handful of people, like it never progressed, it like fizzled out, never got to a vote.
Yeah, so tell me this. So when Elon has pushed back and he's pushed back hard on unions and he's been successful in the vast bulk of his plans. What is his argument, What does he say I am able to do for these workers that they can't get from a union.
So Elon's biggest argument, and I think it's a very powerful one, is equity. Like everyone who works at Tesla gets equity in the company stock stock. The executives get stock options, the regular employees get RSUs, which are restricted stock units that vest typically over a four year period, and then every employee can also buy stock at a discount fifteen percent discount through the Employee Stock person plan. That is a powerful lever and a lot of people, frankly see the UAW as being corrupt and out of touch with what they want. And I mean there's some legitimacy to that, Like the former UAW president went to prison for embezzling union funds, and like Elon will bring that up time and time again. And so I just think Sean Fain is going to face an uphill battle trying to organize Tesla. They will certainly try, but there are a lot of non union plants in the United States.
Max.
This is a very different moment for labor than it was back in twenty eighteen in some of those previous episodes, I mean to be clear, coming out of the pandemic, and history actually shows the long arc of history dating back century shows labor has a tendency to rise up after pandemics. This has always been the case, and so it's just an interesting time. Yeah, perhaps it won't prove quite so easy.
So a couple of things going on that are worth keep in mind. One is, like, the equation may have changed for a Tesla worker in Fremont. So with this big pay increase twenty five percent for Detroit autoworkers, right, maybe the union package or like the comparative advantage of working for Tesla is not quite what it was as in twenty eighteen. The other thing is Tesla cannot grow forever. Right in twenty eighteen is very different companies. Right at the beginning of the Model three production, it had a lot of sort of new stuff ahead of it. At the moment, you know, Tesla's worth around seven hundred billion dollars with a lot of sort of futuristic elon musk, you know, fairy dust assumptions kind of baked into the stock it's also been relatively flat over the last year. And then the other thing is we have seen a lot of success by labor unions kind of targeting companies like Tesla, And so think about the efforts to unionize Starbucks, which for a very long time was this kind of left leaning, sort of much admired company, admired by a lot of liberals, that now has you know, found itself kind of in the crosshairs of organized labor. The same labor Union Workers United that went after Starbucks has is making an effort to unionize Tesla's Buffalo plant. So there's actually a lot of stuff happening here. And the last thing I'll say that I think is significant is, you know, Joe Biden got on the picket lines at during the UAW strike, and there's a real there's like a potential for a political risk to Tesla where you have on one hand, Elon Musk kind of tacking to the right, sort of going on X and palaling around with you know, Vek Ramaswami and Ronda Santis and lately, most recently I think he was tweeting some sort of stop the steel adjacent videos. And you have the Democratic candidate, you know, sort of side going around saying I'm siding with unions and so on. You know, the Bay Area politics have changed a little bit in the Bay Area maybe over the past few years, but it is a left leaning you know, it's a left leaning area. And if this becomes super politicized, that could also affect Tesla's ability to keep its workers from forming a union.
But Musk can also shift production, so he also has a huge plan in Texas, which is a right to work state. So like, I just sort of feel like it's a risk to the Tesla workers, Like, Okay, they try to organize the union, then Eline could be like, you know what, like forget it, Like I'm going to shift production to the South. I've got this new plant in Mexico. Like there's risks sort of all around. But you know, I think what Tesla lacks right now is Christian Small is the like famous Amazon employee who like organize the Amazon union. Like I don't know who that is at Tesla. Is it Sean Fain coming from Detroit to like try to organize, or is there like someone internally who's going to like rise up and be that worker. Like I just think that organizing works best when it's internal. The UAW has never been able to penetrate that plant, and yes, they will try again, but I just still think the odds of success are long, so Dana.
But in Europe, he actually faces some labor pressure there right.
In Sweden and in Germany.
Yeah, and in general, those pressures in Europe, and any wage pressures that may may bubble up here in the US. They come in a slightly tricky time for Tesla in the sense that margins are shrinking right now. Profit margins are shrinking at Tesla.
Yeah, I mean, listen, this is a great time for labor to make its move, no doubt, and they will. And in Europe, like the trade unions are very powerful, so the trade union effort in places like Germany, they do have levers and they can push, and like you know, Tesla will probably raise wages to accommodate that. But in the United States, like I think we have to be honest that like the cage match that we really want is Sean Fayne versus Elon Musk. That's what everyone is gunning for. Like, you know, the Zuckerberg thing is never going to happen, but people want Sean fain to come. They really want people want to see what this looks like, because we'll break.
But if we don't think that it's going to happen, then I think that the biggest takeaway is what is this going to do to Elon's If there is a war declared Sean fayin versus Elon.
Musk, He's going to take that really personally.
I mean, Sean Faine has said that he doesn't think billionaires should exist. He has he has a lot of feeling around that, and we could see that come and impact his policies for the twenty twenty four election. On X he's already, as Max said, cozied up to some of the far right and the conservative candidates. This is something that he has now power over this megaphone that made.
Yeah, he can made shadow Band, the uaw tweets. I mean, he could do all yeah.
I mean, you know, who knows what he'll do. But I do think that we need to think of all of these things in the context of his new power over the conversation ahead of a major presidential election.
Yep, Okay, So we have a very pro union president in the White House, we have Elon Musk who's always been a libertarian attacking further to the right. We have this labor moment and the rise of Sean Fain and Sean Fain setting his sights on Tesla Max. What does all this mean for the election one year from today?
All right, So here's my sort of take on what's going through Elon's head and like why he's, you know, doing the things he's doing politically. Like if you're wondering why Elon Musk, who maybe ten years ago you thought of as a like Obama adjacent kind of left of center, uh, Silicon Valley solutionist, you know, kind of like a green capitalist who's building solar panels. Like why is he suddenly tweeting about voting machines in Georgia and you know, complaining about like transgender rights. And it's because it's partly because of this union thing. It's because he's he's dealing with political headwinds that are new and Joe Biden, after getting elected president, really embraced Detroit and these union shops, even around electric cars. Elon Musk felt kind of squeezed out of that. And I think both on a on a personal level, like felt kind of like offended that the Democrats like weren't thanking him more for for all the work he'd done to popularize technical to be clear, and on a political level.
But to be clear, I mean, Tesla absolutely positively does dominate the EV space in this country.
Right, and so so maybe his aggrievement was was justified. But but you got to also just look at the political reality, which is that the Democrats consider organized labor an important constituency and Elon Musk has set himself kind of opposed to that. And I think as you've seen Biden kind of you know, move closer to to Detroit and and to the ua W, you're seeing Elon sort of embrace you know, right wing causes and in particular Republican candidates, you know. And initially it looked like he was gonna maybe be a Dissanta supporter. Then Desanta's like political prospects haven't looked totally great if you're following the polls. Lately he sort of tweaked, uh, you know, pivoted to vek Ramaswami. That's not looking so good. And lately we're seeing you know, Donald Trump, the the likely Republican candidate, and I think Elon is right now trying to find his way, you know, back into into you know, the good graces of MAGA because of course, for a few years there they there was a little bit of a strange estrangement between Elon World and Trump.
World, even though he's been on the record in Walter Isaacson's book saying he compared Trump to a con man.
Yeah, I think it's a good bet that Trump has not read that, and I think that so long certainly Elon's bet.
Okay. So, so we have our final segment. We are we're going to be bringing this back periodically. We're calling it Cage Match Watch. And you know, Dana tried to give us this whole thing a Sean Faine Elon Musk here, that's not the cage match. The cage match we're all waiting for, and it's gonna happen Elon Musk versus Mark Zuckerberg.
Max.
There have been some developments.
Well, as you know, David, I have done a lot of analysis, a lot of careful thinking on this. And you also know that I am an Elon truther. You know, I say, conventional wisdom says that Mark Zuckerberg, who trains with you know, famous mixed martial arts fighter. He looks kind of jacked when you see pictures of him with his shirt off, that he is a shoe and to win. I've argued, as you know that Elon is very big. He's got a long reach. He you know, he's like six foot four or something around early two hundred and forty two hundred and fifty pounds. You know he's gonna have a big advantage. But I was listening to Joe Rogan's podcast, and I have an update, a strategy update to share about Elon, which is that I don't think he knows what he's doing. There were long stretches in this pocket.
But he's a life long brawler. I mean, the reason why I'm coming around to musk a little bit, which I was initially skeptical. He's been fighting for decades.
Yes, he said he's got a PhD in street fighting. He uh. There was like there were these long sections. Everyone should listen to. This is very important. Ever, stop what you're doing right now, pull your car over. Listen to forty five minutes of Elon and Joe Rogan talking about this. But there are long sections of discussion around moves and and I gotta say Elon Musk did not sound very confident or well informed on the tactics of jiu jitsu or.
Any other in the in the heat of the moment he's in the ring, he's just it's just gonna that that that street brawler in him is just gonna come out.
There's another development, Sarah, like what happened to Mark.
Zuckerberg towards a cl has just got surgery, which is which is kind of interesting because Musk said that he might need to get surgery to strengthen his neck, which is I don't think that's what surgery does. He said that he's not a doctor. You know that's true. I don't want to spread misinformation on this podcast. These men spend millions of dollars on personal physical security they have. They have like former Secret Service agents following them around, and yet they're putting themselves in physical danger all the time.
The only security these guys need are their own fists. All right, that's it.
Enough of the cage match talk.
Let's call it quits.
Thanks for listening to the first ever episode of elan Inc. And thanks to our contributors Max, Sarah Dana.
My pleasure.
Thank you always pleasure.
Our supervising producers Magnus Hendrickson. This episode was produced by Stacy Wang, Naomi Shaven and Rayhan Harmanci are our senior editors. The idea for this very show also came from Rayhan. Blake Maples handles engineering, and we get special editing assistants from Jeff Grocott, thanks a bunch of BusinessWeek editor Joel Weber as well. The elon Ink theme is written and performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sukiira. Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcast and our executive producer. I am David Papadopoulos. If you have a minute, rate and review the show, it'll help other listeners find us.
See you next week.
