Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet.

Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet.

More than half the satellites in space are owned and controlled by one man.

More than half the satellites in space are owned and controlled by one man.

Starting his own artificial intelligence company. Well, he's a legitimate super genius, I mean legitimate.

Starting his own artificial intelligence company. Well, he's a legitimate super genius, I mean legitimate.

He says.

He says.

He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will be different.

He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will be different.

He'll vote Republican.

He'll vote Republican.

There is a reason the US government is so reliant on him.

There is a reason the US government is so reliant on him.

Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing.

Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing.

Anything he does is fascinating the people.

Anything he does is fascinating the people.

Welcome to Elon Ink, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. It's Tuesday, November nineteenth. I'm your host, David Popadopolis. So it's somehow been just fourteen days since the election. But oh, how busy they've been for Elon Musk, who still seems to be basically living at mar A Lago, racking up invites from foreign leaders, watching his wealth sore, and weighing in loudly on Trump's cabinet appointees. All the while his social media company x steadily loses users to rival Blue Sky. And We're going to get right into all of this with our very own Musk cabinet, Ace reporter Dana Hall Hey. They're Dana Hey, Kurt Wagner, who covers social media for US here at Bloomberg, Hay, Kurt Hi, David Hey, and then Max Chafkin, who around here feels a little like Musk at the Mara A Lago ocean front pool.

Welcome to Elon Ink, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. It's Tuesday, November nineteenth. I'm your host, David Popadopolis. So it's somehow been just fourteen days since the election. But oh, how busy they've been for Elon Musk, who still seems to be basically living at mar A Lago, racking up invites from foreign leaders, watching his wealth sore, and weighing in loudly on Trump's cabinet appointees. All the while his social media company x steadily loses users to rival Blue Sky. And We're going to get right into all of this with our very own Musk cabinet, Ace reporter Dana Hall Hey. They're Dana Hey, Kurt Wagner, who covers social media for US here at Bloomberg, Hay, Kurt Hi, David Hey, and then Max Chafkin, who around here feels a little like Musk at the Mara A Lago ocean front pool.

Elon Musk elan twa job. What a job he does. He's a great and he happens to be a really good guy. You know, he likes this place. I can't get him out of here.

Elon Musk elan twa job. What a job he does. He's a great and he happens to be a really good guy. You know, he likes this place. I can't get him out of here.

He just likes this place. And you know what, I like having him here too.

He just likes this place. And you know what, I like having him here too.

He's good, He's done a fantastic job. Really an incredible mind and these unbelievable entrepreneurs sort of everything.

He's good, He's done a fantastic job. Really an incredible mind and these unbelievable entrepreneurs sort of everything.

I'm asking him, what do you do best? And we were not able.

I'm asking him, what do you do best? And we were not able.

To figure it out. But it's a lot of things.

To figure it out. But it's a lot of things.

Amax, David.

Amax, David.

I trust that my confirmation hearing will be food and uneventful.

I trust that my confirmation hearing will be food and uneventful.

Yes, it shall all right. We're going to dive right into it. The Trump trade is working out spectacularly so far for Elon Musk. As you look at the numbers so far, his wealth is now up to three hundred and twenty six billion dollars according to the Bloomberg Terminal, which is about one hundred billion dollars more than his closest rival, who would be Jeff Bezos. Tesla stocks her up about a third since the election several hundred billion, and Xai and SpaceX are cutting deals at record high valuations. So, you know, Kurt Wagner, in the run up to the vote, on this show and in other places, there was a lot of handwringing and wondering about whether Musk was neglecting his companies and neglecting his shareholders during the campaign by spending so much time campaigning for Trump, and he was essentially undermining these companies. I guess those numbers, as it strikes me, at least those valuations put a rest to all of that. The money speaks for itself, does it not, mister Wagner to an extent.

Yes, it shall all right. We're going to dive right into it. The Trump trade is working out spectacularly so far for Elon Musk. As you look at the numbers so far, his wealth is now up to three hundred and twenty six billion dollars according to the Bloomberg Terminal, which is about one hundred billion dollars more than his closest rival, who would be Jeff Bezos. Tesla stocks her up about a third since the election several hundred billion, and Xai and SpaceX are cutting deals at record high valuations. So, you know, Kurt Wagner, in the run up to the vote, on this show and in other places, there was a lot of handwringing and wondering about whether Musk was neglecting his companies and neglecting his shareholders during the campaign by spending so much time campaigning for Trump, and he was essentially undermining these companies. I guess those numbers, as it strikes me, at least those valuations put a rest to all of that. The money speaks for itself, does it not, mister Wagner to an extent.

I think it does, right. I mean, this is a man who has built a reputation on making massive bets, and this is a massive bet that he made that is paying off handsomely. Right, he picked Donald Trump. He put the full weight of his wealth, the full weight of his time, his reputation behind him. Trump is now president Again, Elon is you know, the most powerful non elected person probably in the world, and he's reaping the benefits to come with that, right, and that includes the buoyancy of his his you know, companies, and the idea that because he's close to the president, because he has the president sort of in his ear, he's going to be able to, you know, get the type of regulation he wants. He's going to get the types of deals that he wants, he's going to get the relationships that he wants, and all of those things are beneficial to Elon Inc. And the world of Elon Muskin. We're seeing that, as you point out in the valuations.

I think it does, right. I mean, this is a man who has built a reputation on making massive bets, and this is a massive bet that he made that is paying off handsomely. Right, he picked Donald Trump. He put the full weight of his wealth, the full weight of his time, his reputation behind him. Trump is now president Again, Elon is you know, the most powerful non elected person probably in the world, and he's reaping the benefits to come with that, right, and that includes the buoyancy of his his you know, companies, and the idea that because he's close to the president, because he has the president sort of in his ear, he's going to be able to, you know, get the type of regulation he wants. He's going to get the types of deals that he wants, he's going to get the relationships that he wants, and all of those things are beneficial to Elon Inc. And the world of Elon Muskin. We're seeing that, as you point out in the valuations.

Yeah, and we're gonna we're going to get into the breakdown item by item of what is pushing up that valuation.

Yeah, and we're gonna we're going to get into the breakdown item by item of what is pushing up that valuation.

Max.

Max.

I mean, he's absolutely neglecting his companies. There's like no question that he has spent the last month or so doing nothing but hang around Donald Trump and go to campaign events and focus on this election.

I mean, he's absolutely neglecting his companies. There's like no question that he has spent the last month or so doing nothing but hang around Donald Trump and go to campaign events and focus on this election.

Now.

Now.

I think the bet that the investors are making, as Kurt saying, is that he's gotten a lot for his companies.

I think the bet that the investors are making, as Kurt saying, is that he's gotten a lot for his companies.

And and you.

And and you.

Know, you could make an argument right that maybe having a guy who kind of is impulsive. Who's a let's just put this generously, an unconventional manager has you know, pensions for outbursts of anger, erratic decision making. Maybe it's better for him to be, you know, kind of operating at a high level doing the kind of political diplomacy that could help a company of Tesla size or a company of space exercise. And like that's the bet that they're making. But I also think like we should not just assume that the market has any idea whether this is good or bad for Tesla. Yet this is a bet that investors are making, you know, amid a moment of a lot of exuberance. And you know, we'll see Tesla stock, as we talk about all the time, it swings a lot on this podcast.

Know, you could make an argument right that maybe having a guy who kind of is impulsive. Who's a let's just put this generously, an unconventional manager has you know, pensions for outbursts of anger, erratic decision making. Maybe it's better for him to be, you know, kind of operating at a high level doing the kind of political diplomacy that could help a company of Tesla size or a company of space exercise. And like that's the bet that they're making. But I also think like we should not just assume that the market has any idea whether this is good or bad for Tesla. Yet this is a bet that investors are making, you know, amid a moment of a lot of exuberance. And you know, we'll see Tesla stock, as we talk about all the time, it swings a lot on this podcast.

So Dannik Kurt I wonder on that point, are there any signs inside Musk's companies that all the time he is spending in Pennsylvania now in mar A Lago, that top executives at that at those companies are now empowered to do more make the decisions on their own. Is there any implicit or explicit message, yes, go ahead and do that, or is it too soon for that?

So Dannik Kurt I wonder on that point, are there any signs inside Musk's companies that all the time he is spending in Pennsylvania now in mar A Lago, that top executives at that at those companies are now empowered to do more make the decisions on their own. Is there any implicit or explicit message, yes, go ahead and do that, or is it too soon for that?

I mean, listen, Musk has always run so many companies that his executives have always been kind of empowered to do stuff without him. Like at SpaceX, Gwen Shotwell clearly runs the day to day. At Tesla, there aren't really that many named executive officers, and like in the past, you know, people would always complain that there were bottlenecks because they were waiting for Elon to sign off on stuff. But like Tesla's a profitable company. It kind of runs. It's like they make cars, they sell cars, Like, you know, he's more focused on robotics in AI, like the basic you know work of like running a factory, like he's no longer sleeping on the floor or whatever. So I just think that we as a news or operation need to kind of stop looking for like these points of like everyone wants the narrative that like just falling apart because Elon is doing politics and frankly, it's not like like now you have the whole like Trump administration on X, like X is doing fine. Like I don't know, I just I just sort of feel like there's a desire to find these points of tension and friction that might be premature because.

I mean, listen, Musk has always run so many companies that his executives have always been kind of empowered to do stuff without him. Like at SpaceX, Gwen Shotwell clearly runs the day to day. At Tesla, there aren't really that many named executive officers, and like in the past, you know, people would always complain that there were bottlenecks because they were waiting for Elon to sign off on stuff. But like Tesla's a profitable company. It kind of runs. It's like they make cars, they sell cars, Like, you know, he's more focused on robotics in AI, like the basic you know work of like running a factory, like he's no longer sleeping on the floor or whatever. So I just think that we as a news or operation need to kind of stop looking for like these points of like everyone wants the narrative that like just falling apart because Elon is doing politics and frankly, it's not like like now you have the whole like Trump administration on X, like X is doing fine. Like I don't know, I just I just sort of feel like there's a desire to find these points of tension and friction that might be premature because.

Well, well, a a were journalists, and journalists by definition, that's what we do. We look for points of friction and tension. But I guess that answer implicit answer is that the CEO role doesn't matter, Then why the hell do I need a CEO?

Well, well, a a were journalists, and journalists by definition, that's what we do. We look for points of friction and tension. But I guess that answer implicit answer is that the CEO role doesn't matter, Then why the hell do I need a CEO?

I think it matters different at different companies, right, So, like, yeah, when you're the CEO of six different businesses that are all you know, at various stages, but for the most part, relatively established, Yeah, maybe you don't necessarily need a traditional hands on CEO, right, But that's going to be very different when you have a startup or something like that. I guess I would say I would maybe echo with Dana saying, and just add I think it's too early, right, Like, this is already someone who was who was spread incredibly thin well before Trump showed up into the picture. For him, it's never He's never been someone who's like, you know, hey, I'm going to be at the office from nine to five, you know, pop eye for office hours or whatever. Like that's just not how he operates anyways. And so adding this other you know, I don't even want to call it a hobby obviously, because is much better than that. But adding this other commitment to his plate is obviously it's a big deal, but at the same time, his companies are used to only getting fractions of his time, and so I think it's too soon to say whether this is going to have a long term impact.

I think it matters different at different companies, right, So, like, yeah, when you're the CEO of six different businesses that are all you know, at various stages, but for the most part, relatively established, Yeah, maybe you don't necessarily need a traditional hands on CEO, right, But that's going to be very different when you have a startup or something like that. I guess I would say I would maybe echo with Dana saying, and just add I think it's too early, right, Like, this is already someone who was who was spread incredibly thin well before Trump showed up into the picture. For him, it's never He's never been someone who's like, you know, hey, I'm going to be at the office from nine to five, you know, pop eye for office hours or whatever. Like that's just not how he operates anyways. And so adding this other you know, I don't even want to call it a hobby obviously, because is much better than that. But adding this other commitment to his plate is obviously it's a big deal, but at the same time, his companies are used to only getting fractions of his time, and so I think it's too soon to say whether this is going to have a long term impact.

You know, there's a lot of irrational exuberance right now. I would like to point out that SpaceX is going to launch a starship Brocket this evening, and President Trump is going to go to that launch, as is the new FCC nominated chair, Brendan Carr. So you might even see like the entire Trump cabinet or like everyone from mar A Lago like at this launch. So I think that for Elon that is really good, and he's neglecting his companies, perhaps on the day to day, but just the sort of fact that this whole Republican entourage is now hanging out with Elon, flying around with Elon, going to the UFC fight with Elon, like he is best in the glow of that adulation, which he never got from the Biden administration, as we have talked about many times. And so for a guy who really likes the dopamine hit of adulation and feeling like he's in power, and feeling appreciated. To have the President elect come to his launch is like a huge thing for him.

You know, there's a lot of irrational exuberance right now. I would like to point out that SpaceX is going to launch a starship Brocket this evening, and President Trump is going to go to that launch, as is the new FCC nominated chair, Brendan Carr. So you might even see like the entire Trump cabinet or like everyone from mar A Lago like at this launch. So I think that for Elon that is really good, and he's neglecting his companies, perhaps on the day to day, but just the sort of fact that this whole Republican entourage is now hanging out with Elon, flying around with Elon, going to the UFC fight with Elon, like he is best in the glow of that adulation, which he never got from the Biden administration, as we have talked about many times. And so for a guy who really likes the dopamine hit of adulation and feeling like he's in power, and feeling appreciated. To have the President elect come to his launch is like a huge thing for him.

Let me just say this that all those things Max you said are correct. We shall see ultimately where Tesla and these other companies from an operating basis go from here in the coming months and years, and whether him Elon Musk spending so little time of late with them ultimately hurts them or not. But if I'm a shareholder in the company he's just added in Tesla, for instance, he's just added several hundred billions of dollars to the value of the company, I am thrilled. And if I have those long term concerns, you know what I do. I just sell the stock at an incredible profit right now.

Let me just say this that all those things Max you said are correct. We shall see ultimately where Tesla and these other companies from an operating basis go from here in the coming months and years, and whether him Elon Musk spending so little time of late with them ultimately hurts them or not. But if I'm a shareholder in the company he's just added in Tesla, for instance, he's just added several hundred billions of dollars to the value of the company, I am thrilled. And if I have those long term concerns, you know what I do. I just sell the stock at an incredible profit right now.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And one thing I'll say that I think where what the market is telling us is that there were a lot of reports even before the election, but then then definitely after kind of skeptical about hey, how long can this Trump Musk romance last? You know, these you know, they are so high on each other's presence, and I think what we're seeing to Dana's point, is it's lasting so far. Right Musk is in the inner circle. He has not been pushed out. If anything, he has gotten closer to Trump over the last fourteen days than he was after the election.

And one thing I'll say that I think where what the market is telling us is that there were a lot of reports even before the election, but then then definitely after kind of skeptical about hey, how long can this Trump Musk romance last? You know, these you know, they are so high on each other's presence, and I think what we're seeing to Dana's point, is it's lasting so far. Right Musk is in the inner circle. He has not been pushed out. If anything, he has gotten closer to Trump over the last fourteen days than he was after the election.

And that is true. It is holding for now.

And that is true. It is holding for now.

And we're going to get into that a little bit later on, because there are some signs here and there, some fraying. But I first do want to go through item by item if one is to make sense of this enormous spike in the valuations of his companies in terms of what a Trump administration can can bring about for Elon Inc. Let's do that now. So, Dana, the first thing that comes to mind and I need to ask you about, is the possibility, as has been floated in recent days, that the Trump adminished station brings about some sweeping new rules to autonomous vehicles, helping pave the way for Elon to roll out what are.

And we're going to get into that a little bit later on, because there are some signs here and there, some fraying. But I first do want to go through item by item if one is to make sense of this enormous spike in the valuations of his companies in terms of what a Trump administration can can bring about for Elon Inc. Let's do that now. So, Dana, the first thing that comes to mind and I need to ask you about, is the possibility, as has been floated in recent days, that the Trump adminished station brings about some sweeping new rules to autonomous vehicles, helping pave the way for Elon to roll out what are.

We calling it, robo cyber cab. Tell us a bit about that.

We calling it, robo cyber cab. Tell us a bit about that.

So, as you all recall back in you know, April, Elon Musk basically fired twenty percent of Tesla's staff and completely pivoted the company. They're no longer chasing volume of electric cars. The future is all about autonomy and AI and the robotaxi and on an earnings call, Musk said very clearly, like if President Trump is elected, like I'm really hoping for a kind of a streamlined federal process when it comes to autonomous vehicles instead of this patchwork regulatory quilts where like one city has one rule and another state has another rule. And that is very clearly one of his asks. And you know, I think that just basically a streamlined, very fast track kind of regulatory regime is really what Elon wants, and now he's probably gonna get it.

So, as you all recall back in you know, April, Elon Musk basically fired twenty percent of Tesla's staff and completely pivoted the company. They're no longer chasing volume of electric cars. The future is all about autonomy and AI and the robotaxi and on an earnings call, Musk said very clearly, like if President Trump is elected, like I'm really hoping for a kind of a streamlined federal process when it comes to autonomous vehicles instead of this patchwork regulatory quilts where like one city has one rule and another state has another rule. And that is very clearly one of his asks. And you know, I think that just basically a streamlined, very fast track kind of regulatory regime is really what Elon wants, and now he's probably gonna get it.

There was a report to that effect that correct me if I'm wrong.

There was a report to that effect that correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah, our colleague David Welsh broke the story over the weekend that the Trump transition team was like floating possibly Emil Michael, who used to work at Uber as like a potential Dot secretary. Now we know that he is not the cabinet elect, but I mean, we don't know yet who's going to end up running NITZ for example.

Yeah, our colleague David Welsh broke the story over the weekend that the Trump transition team was like floating possibly Emil Michael, who used to work at Uber as like a potential Dot secretary. Now we know that he is not the cabinet elect, but I mean, we don't know yet who's going to end up running NITZ for example.

Just a couple of things.

Just a couple of things.

Yeah, Trump did not pick the guy that Elon seemed to want, Emil Michael, who would have been who's basically you know, an ex uber executive, former Silicon Valley guy. Seems like of all the people who could possibly just kind of ram this through, he'd be the most likely to do it. I have to say, the guy that Trump did pick doesn't have any track record of or as far as I could find in a quick search since the pick was announced, of talking about autonous vehicles. And I would be skeptical that the Trump administration is going to spend, you know, a ton of political capital on this and and the other thing.

Yeah, Trump did not pick the guy that Elon seemed to want, Emil Michael, who would have been who's basically you know, an ex uber executive, former Silicon Valley guy. Seems like of all the people who could possibly just kind of ram this through, he'd be the most likely to do it. I have to say, the guy that Trump did pick doesn't have any track record of or as far as I could find in a quick search since the pick was announced, of talking about autonous vehicles. And I would be skeptical that the Trump administration is going to spend, you know, a ton of political capital on this and and the other thing.

Would it take a ton of political capital.

Would it take a ton of political capital.

So the Bloomberg story we published is really good. It explains that they would there are some rules that they could change, but they would need an Act of Congress to to really you know, to really like make the cyber cab happen on any kind of big scale. And I think that the problem here, which was the problem before Trump was elected, is that you can have the best regulatory framework, the biggest, most beautiful, most glorious could be like the toilet seat of mar A Lago equivalent of regulatory frameworks, and you need a cyber cab, like you need a working car to like make use of these regulations. And again it's not totally clear that that has happened. So again this all feels like very hypothetical. We've got like, maybe there's going to be some kind of thing that's that's going to happen to make Elon Musk happy on the regulatory side. But then Tesla would have to turn around and take advantage of it somehow.

So the Bloomberg story we published is really good. It explains that they would there are some rules that they could change, but they would need an Act of Congress to to really you know, to really like make the cyber cab happen on any kind of big scale. And I think that the problem here, which was the problem before Trump was elected, is that you can have the best regulatory framework, the biggest, most beautiful, most glorious could be like the toilet seat of mar A Lago equivalent of regulatory frameworks, and you need a cyber cab, like you need a working car to like make use of these regulations. And again it's not totally clear that that has happened. So again this all feels like very hypothetical. We've got like, maybe there's going to be some kind of thing that's that's going to happen to make Elon Musk happy on the regulatory side. But then Tesla would have to turn around and take advantage of it somehow.

Right, it could actually backfire because you could no longer blame regulatory approval for the delay. Like if they got this fast track regulatory aprival, they'd have to like they'd have to actually like start an operation.

Right, it could actually backfire because you could no longer blame regulatory approval for the delay. Like if they got this fast track regulatory aprival, they'd have to like they'd have to actually like start an operation.

Dan.

Dan.

Next up the sun setting of EV tax rebates for car buyers.

Next up the sun setting of EV tax rebates for car buyers.

Yeah, so the seventy five hundred dollars federal tax credit for buying an electric vehicle has been a huge part of the Inflation Reduction Act and really kind of encouraged a lot of consumers who maybe weren't thinking about an EV to buy a car. And the Trump administration has floated about sunsetting that. Elon says that he's okay with that, and I think that he's right in that Tesla, by virtue of their volume and can do a lot with pricing and they don't need the credits as much as their rivals do because Tesla is already profitable. Now, would losing the credit hurt their gross margin? Absolutely? But it's really going to hurt rivals, and so you know, Elon might be willing to kind of go ahead with this because it would just allow Tesla's moat to get so much better. I mean, you have like GM and Forward. They poured so much money into trying to forecast the EV market going forward, and they keep having to rewrite their playbook and like scale back their ambitions, and it's so frustrating for them because like with every administration things, Wax and Wayne, whereas like Tesla is the dominant player in the US, They're going to basically be able to sort of you know, continue that moat and they still get a lot of funding from the IRA for manufacturing, for installing superchargers. I mean, I could see, you know, Tesla just basically like the credit goes away, Tesla just slashes prices, which we've seen Elon do in the past, and like, I don't think that the credit is that big of a deal, to be honest, I think that Elon would be happy to see it go away.

Yeah, so the seventy five hundred dollars federal tax credit for buying an electric vehicle has been a huge part of the Inflation Reduction Act and really kind of encouraged a lot of consumers who maybe weren't thinking about an EV to buy a car. And the Trump administration has floated about sunsetting that. Elon says that he's okay with that, and I think that he's right in that Tesla, by virtue of their volume and can do a lot with pricing and they don't need the credits as much as their rivals do because Tesla is already profitable. Now, would losing the credit hurt their gross margin? Absolutely? But it's really going to hurt rivals, and so you know, Elon might be willing to kind of go ahead with this because it would just allow Tesla's moat to get so much better. I mean, you have like GM and Forward. They poured so much money into trying to forecast the EV market going forward, and they keep having to rewrite their playbook and like scale back their ambitions, and it's so frustrating for them because like with every administration things, Wax and Wayne, whereas like Tesla is the dominant player in the US, They're going to basically be able to sort of you know, continue that moat and they still get a lot of funding from the IRA for manufacturing, for installing superchargers. I mean, I could see, you know, Tesla just basically like the credit goes away, Tesla just slashes prices, which we've seen Elon do in the past, and like, I don't think that the credit is that big of a deal, to be honest, I think that Elon would be happy to see it go away.

I guess I would point out that this is not the only sort of industry or major tech company that is almost pushing for more regulation or in this case, you know, fewer benefits in order to benefit them. It's sort of it's counterintuitive, right, So I would point out that Meta, which owns Facebook, Instagram for years, has been saying, hey, regulate us, regulate the tech, regulate the social networking industry. And on the surface, you think, why would they ever want more regulation?

I guess I would point out that this is not the only sort of industry or major tech company that is almost pushing for more regulation or in this case, you know, fewer benefits in order to benefit them. It's sort of it's counterintuitive, right, So I would point out that Meta, which owns Facebook, Instagram for years, has been saying, hey, regulate us, regulate the tech, regulate the social networking industry. And on the surface, you think, why would they ever want more regulation?

Right, this would hurt them?

Right, this would hurt them?

Well, it's because, as we pointed out, same with Tesla, they're in such a dominant position that any regulation they can deal with. They have the resources, they have the talent, they have the time to deal with it easily. But it will close the door for a number of competitors. That will make it harder for competitors to catch.

Well, it's because, as we pointed out, same with Tesla, they're in such a dominant position that any regulation they can deal with. They have the resources, they have the talent, they have the time to deal with it easily. But it will close the door for a number of competitors. That will make it harder for competitors to catch.

Up to them.

Up to them.

Right, It's still a growing in somewhat new industry, the evs, but like it's much more mature than when Elon started this out right, So like there is a dominant player which didn't exist when he was first going. And so I think that's why this counter into a intuitive idea actually makes a lot of sense for him.

Right, It's still a growing in somewhat new industry, the evs, but like it's much more mature than when Elon started this out right, So like there is a dominant player which didn't exist when he was first going. And so I think that's why this counter into a intuitive idea actually makes a lot of sense for him.

Max.

Max.

Another thing that is helping Musk's empire is the idea it's been floated or I guess Trump has said he would like Brendan Carr to chair the FCC.

Another thing that is helping Musk's empire is the idea it's been floated or I guess Trump has said he would like Brendan Carr to chair the FCC.

Why is this positive for elinning.

Why is this positive for elinning.

Brend And Carr is a long time Elon Musk fan, and in particular he's expressed appreciation for Elon Musk in all sorts of respects. But the FCC is an important regulator for Starlink, which is a subsidiary of SpaceX. And you know, one of Elon Musk's big frustrations with the Biden administration is that there is a lot of money for rural broadband internet and that money has not gone to him. There are a couple of programs and car has been very outspoken about the need.

Brend And Carr is a long time Elon Musk fan, and in particular he's expressed appreciation for Elon Musk in all sorts of respects. But the FCC is an important regulator for Starlink, which is a subsidiary of SpaceX. And you know, one of Elon Musk's big frustrations with the Biden administration is that there is a lot of money for rural broadband internet and that money has not gone to him. There are a couple of programs and car has been very outspoken about the need.

To change that.

To change that.

And I actually think this is the way, like much more than autonomous vehicles or some of these other things that rely on a lot of hypothetical car.

And I actually think this is the way, like much more than autonomous vehicles or some of these other things that rely on a lot of hypothetical car.

This is a way.

This is a way.

Yeah, this is like a way that Elon Musk can put money directly towards his top line, you know, revenue from the government to Starlink. And part of the reason it's more plausible is because Elon Musk has like a real plausible case for it.

Yeah, this is like a way that Elon Musk can put money directly towards his top line, you know, revenue from the government to Starlink. And part of the reason it's more plausible is because Elon Musk has like a real plausible case for it.

Yeah, That's what I was going to ask you. Is there a good inmate case that starlink deserves that money? Just as much as these other companies do.

Yeah, That's what I was going to ask you. Is there a good inmate case that starlink deserves that money? Just as much as these other companies do.

It's complicated. I've done I've done a little bit of reporting on this, and there are there's some analysts out there who have been looking at this and talking about it as a possibility. Elon Musk's argument is essentially, the satellites are going to get better, and no one really knows how true that is or to what extent they're going to get better. Are they going to get better enough? And like that's kind of where the rubber meets the road. But there is a case for satellites, like you could roll these like give people starlinks. Is a lot cheaper than laying out fiber. The question is like when you try to do it on a mass scale, how does that work? And I think the from a from a sort of Elon point of view, he gets two things out of this. One is potentially more revenue, but the second is it slows down these traditional telecom operators that we're counting on government subsidies for their own you know, rollout of rural broadbands. So this is like a definite win for Elon. I think it's I think Brendan Carr is like the biggest win he's had so far, even bigger than getting named as the co chair of DOGE, and certainly better than these kind of you know, sort of vague reports that the Trump administration is is you know, sympathetic to autonomous vehicles, because because again we don't really know, it's just a little hard to figure out how that would benefit Elon, at least in the short term.

It's complicated. I've done I've done a little bit of reporting on this, and there are there's some analysts out there who have been looking at this and talking about it as a possibility. Elon Musk's argument is essentially, the satellites are going to get better, and no one really knows how true that is or to what extent they're going to get better. Are they going to get better enough? And like that's kind of where the rubber meets the road. But there is a case for satellites, like you could roll these like give people starlinks. Is a lot cheaper than laying out fiber. The question is like when you try to do it on a mass scale, how does that work? And I think the from a from a sort of Elon point of view, he gets two things out of this. One is potentially more revenue, but the second is it slows down these traditional telecom operators that we're counting on government subsidies for their own you know, rollout of rural broadbands. So this is like a definite win for Elon. I think it's I think Brendan Carr is like the biggest win he's had so far, even bigger than getting named as the co chair of DOGE, and certainly better than these kind of you know, sort of vague reports that the Trump administration is is you know, sympathetic to autonomous vehicles, because because again we don't really know, it's just a little hard to figure out how that would benefit Elon, at least in the short term.

The other thing I wanted to jump in on is that Carr has advocated a ban on TikTok, citing national security concerns because of China, and that could also benefit Elon because you know, as X adds more video capacity, they're really rivals with TikTok. So I think when we look at all of these cabinet appointments, it's really important to sort of think about how they benefit Musk not just in one company, but sort of across all companies. And Brendan Carr is going to go to the Space Excellence today.

The other thing I wanted to jump in on is that Carr has advocated a ban on TikTok, citing national security concerns because of China, and that could also benefit Elon because you know, as X adds more video capacity, they're really rivals with TikTok. So I think when we look at all of these cabinet appointments, it's really important to sort of think about how they benefit Musk not just in one company, but sort of across all companies. And Brendan Carr is going to go to the Space Excellence today.

Also, it should be noted I guess that Elon has claimed he doesn't want a TikTok ban, right, He's sort of like, hey, this is against free speech, this would be a bad thing. But as Dana very smartly points out, like he's saying that in reality, I think TikTok not being in picture would ultimately benefit X. So he might say he doesn't want it, but when push comes to shove, I'm sure he'd happily you accept a lot more attention coming towards X.

Also, it should be noted I guess that Elon has claimed he doesn't want a TikTok ban, right, He's sort of like, hey, this is against free speech, this would be a bad thing. But as Dana very smartly points out, like he's saying that in reality, I think TikTok not being in picture would ultimately benefit X. So he might say he doesn't want it, but when push comes to shove, I'm sure he'd happily you accept a lot more attention coming towards X.

Yeah, more on X in a moment, Max, thank you very much for bringing up DOZE, the Department of Government Efficiency. We are absolutely, dear listeners, gonna be talking more about DOZE in coming weeks and months. But I want to Dana before we move on to X, ask you this. Max earlier had said that so far the Trump Musk relationship seems to be holding up just fine, and that indeed seems to be the case. But at the same time, there are signs of fracture or at least tension emerging, reports of insiders in the Trump team bristling at how Musk is acting quote as a co president to Trump. And I wonder if you feel like these are just initial bumps in the road and the cost of doing business with Trump, or a sign that things might come to a head sooner rather than later.

Yeah, more on X in a moment, Max, thank you very much for bringing up DOZE, the Department of Government Efficiency. We are absolutely, dear listeners, gonna be talking more about DOZE in coming weeks and months. But I want to Dana before we move on to X, ask you this. Max earlier had said that so far the Trump Musk relationship seems to be holding up just fine, and that indeed seems to be the case. But at the same time, there are signs of fracture or at least tension emerging, reports of insiders in the Trump team bristling at how Musk is acting quote as a co president to Trump. And I wonder if you feel like these are just initial bumps in the road and the cost of doing business with Trump, or a sign that things might come to a head sooner rather than later.

I think it's kind of bs to be honest. I mean, the Trump team is famously leaky, right and right now, You've got all these people in mar A Lago like jockeying for position and jockeying for power, and like you know, there's this whole like fight about who's going to be the Treasury secretary in different camps or leaking things to different things, and yeah, like oh, there was like a dust up at a dinner with like boris what's his name or like whatever, like Trump is going to the SpaceX launch today, Like that is what matters. Like I used to cover politics, and I just don't take these kind of like thinly sourced reports in certain outlets that seriously like Elon and Trump, I've been thickest thieves for the past like six weeks, and until there's like a real rupture, I just don't really buy it. I'm sure that some like old school Trump loyalists are maybe bristling at the fact that Elon is around, but like you're seeing photographs of like Trump and Don Junior and the Speaker of the House and RFK and Elon like all on the plane Enan McDonald's together, there's no rupture. I've always just been very skeptical of a lot of political reput because that.

I think it's kind of bs to be honest. I mean, the Trump team is famously leaky, right and right now, You've got all these people in mar A Lago like jockeying for position and jockeying for power, and like you know, there's this whole like fight about who's going to be the Treasury secretary in different camps or leaking things to different things, and yeah, like oh, there was like a dust up at a dinner with like boris what's his name or like whatever, like Trump is going to the SpaceX launch today, Like that is what matters. Like I used to cover politics, and I just don't take these kind of like thinly sourced reports in certain outlets that seriously like Elon and Trump, I've been thickest thieves for the past like six weeks, and until there's like a real rupture, I just don't really buy it. I'm sure that some like old school Trump loyalists are maybe bristling at the fact that Elon is around, but like you're seeing photographs of like Trump and Don Junior and the Speaker of the House and RFK and Elon like all on the plane Enan McDonald's together, there's no rupture. I've always just been very skeptical of a lot of political reput because that.

Is fair, but Max.

Is fair, but Max.

Trump has on a couple of occasions, including the clip we played at the beginning of the show, he has publicly started taking swipes at Eline.

Trump has on a couple of occasions, including the clip we played at the beginning of the show, he has publicly started taking swipes at Eline.

Yeah, I gotta agree with everything down said she.

Yeah, I gotta agree with everything down said she.

I'm sorry, David.

I'm sorry, David.

I know, I know that's not what you want to hear. But but here's the thing. Help, there are other there are other constituencies within this transition who obviously have an interest in marginalizing Elon, and and so and and there there are other sources of power here. And and if you just look at like the top line, like who's at the McDonald's table, Like, I think that's a pretty good indication. And what I will say is yes, in the past and and we we get into this in the episode that's Forthcoming of Citizen Elon. There have been signs like this before where Trump is sort of preparing to like shift someone and he will start making these kind of cracks, right, and it's it's like a way to kind of open the door. And maybe that's possible. It could also be that it's a warning to Elon. It's like, listen, you need to work with me, you know, don't get too big for your breeches. It could also be a signal to some other part of Trump's coalition who he's trying to play Kate. We just like don't know what is going on. And I really think there are a lot of people who are like taking lessons from the past Trump administration, which makes sense. But I also think we need to look at Elon. And this is not as much about to me anyway, This is not as much about can Trump live in a world where there's Elon Musk in his inner circle? It's can Elon Musk be sufficiently subservient? And I think before this, like last few months of political adventure with Elon, I guess I would say no freaking way. But over the last three months, Elon has proven himself willing to let Trump lead. And until we see a difference, then you know, I'm gonna assume that's going to continue.

I know, I know that's not what you want to hear. But but here's the thing. Help, there are other there are other constituencies within this transition who obviously have an interest in marginalizing Elon, and and so and and there there are other sources of power here. And and if you just look at like the top line, like who's at the McDonald's table, Like, I think that's a pretty good indication. And what I will say is yes, in the past and and we we get into this in the episode that's Forthcoming of Citizen Elon. There have been signs like this before where Trump is sort of preparing to like shift someone and he will start making these kind of cracks, right, and it's it's like a way to kind of open the door. And maybe that's possible. It could also be that it's a warning to Elon. It's like, listen, you need to work with me, you know, don't get too big for your breeches. It could also be a signal to some other part of Trump's coalition who he's trying to play Kate. We just like don't know what is going on. And I really think there are a lot of people who are like taking lessons from the past Trump administration, which makes sense. But I also think we need to look at Elon. And this is not as much about to me anyway, This is not as much about can Trump live in a world where there's Elon Musk in his inner circle? It's can Elon Musk be sufficiently subservient? And I think before this, like last few months of political adventure with Elon, I guess I would say no freaking way. But over the last three months, Elon has proven himself willing to let Trump lead. And until we see a difference, then you know, I'm gonna assume that's going to continue.

Okay, very good, Kurt.

Okay, very good, Kurt.

Let us talk about the Exodu users leaving X. Things are going swimmingly, as we just stated, or at least for the market values of many of his companies in his empire, not so much right now. For X users are leaving. Tell us what's going on.

Let us talk about the Exodu users leaving X. Things are going swimmingly, as we just stated, or at least for the market values of many of his companies in his empire, not so much right now. For X users are leaving. Tell us what's going on.

It's this weird.

It's this weird.

Sort of like Jekyl and hyde situation at X right now, which is it is more politically and culturally important than it has been since Elon bought the company, right like, this is the most relevance X has had as a social network and as a sort of distributor of Donald Trump's agenda, news and information. At the same time, it is probably maybe the weakest it has been from a user standpoint, right because after the election, we saw all of these people basically throwing in the towel on X and saying I'm done with this place. And we've seen that reflected in the numbers of two rivals, Meta's Threads and Blue Sky, And with Blue Sky in particular, it's been really interesting because Blue Sky's been around for a couple of years. It had a lot of attention when it first launched, and then it sort of went quiet for a while. I think a lot of people were just like, that's not it, that's not the place. We'll just kind of let it sit over there. And it's added I think it was at ten million users in September. The week after the election, it added about one point five million, and in the week since then, so you know, week two after the election, I believe it's added about five million users, and so it's now close to nineteen million, up from ten million in September. As I mentioned, it's almost doubled in size in just a couple of months. And if you go to Blue Sky, I think the most telling thing is that your feed is going to be full of people basically saying, hey, I'm new here, just came over from X, you know, leaving that place behind. Tell me who to follow, tell me what to do, like how do I use this thing? Like ha ha ha, Right, But the idea being that all of these people are migrating to a new network because they no longer want to be associated with X. And so I think that that is anecdotal, of course, but I think that, paired with the rising user numbers, that these two competitors sort of tells a picture that you know, X is having a bit of a user user growth or user retention issue at the moment.

Sort of like Jekyl and hyde situation at X right now, which is it is more politically and culturally important than it has been since Elon bought the company, right like, this is the most relevance X has had as a social network and as a sort of distributor of Donald Trump's agenda, news and information. At the same time, it is probably maybe the weakest it has been from a user standpoint, right because after the election, we saw all of these people basically throwing in the towel on X and saying I'm done with this place. And we've seen that reflected in the numbers of two rivals, Meta's Threads and Blue Sky, And with Blue Sky in particular, it's been really interesting because Blue Sky's been around for a couple of years. It had a lot of attention when it first launched, and then it sort of went quiet for a while. I think a lot of people were just like, that's not it, that's not the place. We'll just kind of let it sit over there. And it's added I think it was at ten million users in September. The week after the election, it added about one point five million, and in the week since then, so you know, week two after the election, I believe it's added about five million users, and so it's now close to nineteen million, up from ten million in September. As I mentioned, it's almost doubled in size in just a couple of months. And if you go to Blue Sky, I think the most telling thing is that your feed is going to be full of people basically saying, hey, I'm new here, just came over from X, you know, leaving that place behind. Tell me who to follow, tell me what to do, like how do I use this thing? Like ha ha ha, Right, But the idea being that all of these people are migrating to a new network because they no longer want to be associated with X. And so I think that that is anecdotal, of course, but I think that, paired with the rising user numbers, that these two competitors sort of tells a picture that you know, X is having a bit of a user user growth or user retention issue at the moment.

A Blue Sky has a lot of like high usage people like Lizzo is now on Blue Sky, and epidemiologists and climate scientists like all of my energy peeps have moved to Blue Sky. And I think the other big thing driving this is that X changed its term of service. So as of November fifteenth, if you're using X, you're basically allowing them to use your content to feed into XAI and like language models. And so the change of the terms of service is actually what kind of inspired a lot of people to start not just like leaving X, but like downloading their tweets and then like deleting them. So that's like another interesting part of this is just like people realizing that they don't want elon having their content, And I mean, Max and I go back and forth about this a lot. I struggle with my presence on X because on the one hand, I feel like I need to be there because that's now where the incoming Trump administration is, like all the cabinet people like, that's where like a lot of people who are now going to be in power are posting. So I feel like I have to at least lurk. But I have also joined blue Sky. I hope you will find me there.

A Blue Sky has a lot of like high usage people like Lizzo is now on Blue Sky, and epidemiologists and climate scientists like all of my energy peeps have moved to Blue Sky. And I think the other big thing driving this is that X changed its term of service. So as of November fifteenth, if you're using X, you're basically allowing them to use your content to feed into XAI and like language models. And so the change of the terms of service is actually what kind of inspired a lot of people to start not just like leaving X, but like downloading their tweets and then like deleting them. So that's like another interesting part of this is just like people realizing that they don't want elon having their content, And I mean, Max and I go back and forth about this a lot. I struggle with my presence on X because on the one hand, I feel like I need to be there because that's now where the incoming Trump administration is, like all the cabinet people like, that's where like a lot of people who are now going to be in power are posting. So I feel like I have to at least lurk. But I have also joined blue Sky. I hope you will find me there.

Okay, I shall.

Okay, I shall.

We need an el in ink, We need an el on ink starter pack.

We need an el in ink, We need an el on ink starter pack.

There we go.

There we go.

Some X is Blue Sky's gain, X's loss or are there signs that indeed they are? For every one liberal user that walks out the door. They are being replaced by conservatives, conservative users. And even if that's not the case, does it exactly matter for X. You've drilled into my head in recent weeks that we need to rethink our understanding of X and its role and the Musk Empire.

Some X is Blue Sky's gain, X's loss or are there signs that indeed they are? For every one liberal user that walks out the door. They are being replaced by conservatives, conservative users. And even if that's not the case, does it exactly matter for X. You've drilled into my head in recent weeks that we need to rethink our understanding of X and its role and the Musk Empire.

Yeah, I mean both things can be true. Like Chrit said, like he's right, X has never been more relevant, at least not in the last five years than it is today. And we don't know what the value of X is think, Like we talked about this on the last episode, like the models of Elon's net worth rely on fidelities mark down. If I were a shareholder of X, I would be marking that way the hell up because clearly, you know, association with Elon amid a Trump administration, whether or not it translates to actual you know, business, is valuable according to the market. After the election, we saw all of these CEOs, guys who had kind of been on the fence, you know, go and sort of kiss the ring to Trump, and they all did it on X, right. They all Satyad Della Sun Dhar Pachai, Jeff Bezos, like all the all the sort of tech guys who wanted to kiss up to Donald Trump, went on X. They called him President Trump even though he's president elect, and they and of course they did it on Elon Musk's platform, and so clearly it's it's like the Trump Hotel of social networks. Like, if you want to if you want to be in this orbit, you got to be there. And I think and even even saying that probably understates it, because like it is a really important piece of the right wing media ecosystem right now, maybe the most important piece. But what I'll say is, and like right wing media has always relied on this relationship with quote unquote mainstream media, and what X had going for it before the election was you still had a lot of mainstream journalists there, You had a lot of mainstream news organizations. Despite the fact that Elon Musk, the owner and now key advisor to the to the president elect, is going out there every day saying really bad things about media, saying that they're they're the opposition, they're terrible, and you know, cut doing making tweaks algorithmically into the business that are harming those companies' business. It's really only a matter of time before mainstream media outlets try to find a different outlet, and I think what we're seeing now is is some of that happening some of these You have a lot of journalists, a lot of media outlets suddenly like paying attention to Blue Sky. And if that happens in a big way and X doesn't respond, that I think will hurt X in the LNE long run. Because conservative media, as much as it is its own ecosystem, as much as it is, there is a big audience there. Part of what makes the most successful conservative media plays work is that they're able to kind of straddle both sides of it, but both the like hardcore activists as well as kind of the middle the kind of mainstream audience.

Yeah, I mean both things can be true. Like Chrit said, like he's right, X has never been more relevant, at least not in the last five years than it is today. And we don't know what the value of X is think, Like we talked about this on the last episode, like the models of Elon's net worth rely on fidelities mark down. If I were a shareholder of X, I would be marking that way the hell up because clearly, you know, association with Elon amid a Trump administration, whether or not it translates to actual you know, business, is valuable according to the market. After the election, we saw all of these CEOs, guys who had kind of been on the fence, you know, go and sort of kiss the ring to Trump, and they all did it on X, right. They all Satyad Della Sun Dhar Pachai, Jeff Bezos, like all the all the sort of tech guys who wanted to kiss up to Donald Trump, went on X. They called him President Trump even though he's president elect, and they and of course they did it on Elon Musk's platform, and so clearly it's it's like the Trump Hotel of social networks. Like, if you want to if you want to be in this orbit, you got to be there. And I think and even even saying that probably understates it, because like it is a really important piece of the right wing media ecosystem right now, maybe the most important piece. But what I'll say is, and like right wing media has always relied on this relationship with quote unquote mainstream media, and what X had going for it before the election was you still had a lot of mainstream journalists there, You had a lot of mainstream news organizations. Despite the fact that Elon Musk, the owner and now key advisor to the to the president elect, is going out there every day saying really bad things about media, saying that they're they're the opposition, they're terrible, and you know, cut doing making tweaks algorithmically into the business that are harming those companies' business. It's really only a matter of time before mainstream media outlets try to find a different outlet, and I think what we're seeing now is is some of that happening some of these You have a lot of journalists, a lot of media outlets suddenly like paying attention to Blue Sky. And if that happens in a big way and X doesn't respond, that I think will hurt X in the LNE long run. Because conservative media, as much as it is its own ecosystem, as much as it is, there is a big audience there. Part of what makes the most successful conservative media plays work is that they're able to kind of straddle both sides of it, but both the like hardcore activists as well as kind of the middle the kind of mainstream audience.

Could I just add real quickly.

Could I just add real quickly.

I mean, there's this idea that like, oh, is X going to be relevant if it's just right leaning sort of Trump fans without you know, liberal folks to poke and prod or whatever. Right Like We've heard that for kind of years. I would point you to truth social, right, Like, what is truth social? It is right leaning Trump supporters without anybody to really poke and prod. And I would argue truth social other than basically being a glorified way for Trump to release press releases has almost no relevance in general kind of modern Internet culture, right like it is truly just like Trump Press release two point zero service. And so I do think for X to stay relevant, they need they they sort of need, you know, people from from both sides of this political spectrum to care about what's happening on this service, because otherwise it does become very kind of echo chamber isolated. And I'm just not sure that it's going to jump off the Internet onto television and radio and podcasts in the way that it has historically if it becomes very very one sided.

I mean, there's this idea that like, oh, is X going to be relevant if it's just right leaning sort of Trump fans without you know, liberal folks to poke and prod or whatever. Right Like We've heard that for kind of years. I would point you to truth social, right, Like, what is truth social? It is right leaning Trump supporters without anybody to really poke and prod. And I would argue truth social other than basically being a glorified way for Trump to release press releases has almost no relevance in general kind of modern Internet culture, right like it is truly just like Trump Press release two point zero service. And so I do think for X to stay relevant, they need they they sort of need, you know, people from from both sides of this political spectrum to care about what's happening on this service, because otherwise it does become very kind of echo chamber isolated. And I'm just not sure that it's going to jump off the Internet onto television and radio and podcasts in the way that it has historically if it becomes very very one sided.

Max.

Max.

So, one thing I've learned over decades covering finance is that marks, when you're marking the value of a private asset, not a publicly traded asset, private marks are a dark art. Okay, they are a dark art. And so if you know what if you have, if you happen to have a little cut of that, you know, stock and X, and you want to mark it up, go ahead, man mark that thing up.

So, one thing I've learned over decades covering finance is that marks, when you're marking the value of a private asset, not a publicly traded asset, private marks are a dark art. Okay, they are a dark art. And so if you know what if you have, if you happen to have a little cut of that, you know, stock and X, and you want to mark it up, go ahead, man mark that thing up.

I do think, like combo of Trump being president and the meme the stock market where it is, it's not out of the realm of possibility that X could return to the public markets one day and even return at evaluation that might be at least much higher than it's current super depressed in.

I do think, like combo of Trump being president and the meme the stock market where it is, it's not out of the realm of possibility that X could return to the public markets one day and even return at evaluation that might be at least much higher than it's current super depressed in.

The abstract, That does seem plausible.

The abstract, That does seem plausible.

But Kurt, are there any signs of any kind that there's any buzz among the banker investing community that man, let me get my hands on some of them X shares.

But Kurt, are there any signs of any kind that there's any buzz among the banker investing community that man, let me get my hands on some of them X shares.

So I agree with Max.

So I agree with Max.

I think when Fidelity comes out with its next report, which will probably get to go up three weeks from now or whatever, we can talk about when it does, I wouldn't be I would be shocked if the value is an up right, if it isn't up noticeably, only because, as Max pointed out, being associated with Elon and therefore being associated with Trump tends to signal we think, you know, we're a buyer of this type of thing. At the same time, if I'm Elon and X, the last thing I think I want to do is go public right now and expose for the businesses. Yeah, but I think you know, this is not a strong business. I continue to firmly believe that this is not a good business, right like it is a good cultural weapon in some in some ways for Elon and Trump. But you know, there was a report, David.

I think when Fidelity comes out with its next report, which will probably get to go up three weeks from now or whatever, we can talk about when it does, I wouldn't be I would be shocked if the value is an up right, if it isn't up noticeably, only because, as Max pointed out, being associated with Elon and therefore being associated with Trump tends to signal we think, you know, we're a buyer of this type of thing. At the same time, if I'm Elon and X, the last thing I think I want to do is go public right now and expose for the businesses. Yeah, but I think you know, this is not a strong business. I continue to firmly believe that this is not a good business, right like it is a good cultural weapon in some in some ways for Elon and Trump. But you know, there was a report, David.

You may have seen.

You may have seen.

Last week that all of these big blue chip advertisers had returned. I wrote some of them down. It was like IBM, Disney, Comcast, Warner Brothers, and it was like, oh, they're no longer paused. They're spending on X again, Like this is huge. And then you look into the report, all of those companies combined spent three point three million dollars on advertising over nine months. It was down ninety eight percent from twenty twenty three. So my point being is that even though they're trying to create.

Last week that all of these big blue chip advertisers had returned. I wrote some of them down. It was like IBM, Disney, Comcast, Warner Brothers, and it was like, oh, they're no longer paused. They're spending on X again, Like this is huge. And then you look into the report, all of those companies combined spent three point three million dollars on advertising over nine months. It was down ninety eight percent from twenty twenty three. So my point being is that even though they're trying to create.

Like wait a minute, well what about the cheach and chong gummies? What about then? Tell me about the cheaching chong gum, you are single handedly keeping those guys afloat. David. We've talked about this. You need to stop those place chechicheng.

Like wait a minute, well what about the cheach and chong gummies? What about then? Tell me about the cheaching chong gum, you are single handedly keeping those guys afloat. David. We've talked about this. You need to stop those place chechicheng.

I feel like I'll get off my soapbox here, but I just feel like the idea that this is a strong business is yet to be Maybe I will be wrong, and we've all been proven wrong by Elon at one point or another, and this will be my big hill that I die on.

I feel like I'll get off my soapbox here, but I just feel like the idea that this is a strong business is yet to be Maybe I will be wrong, and we've all been proven wrong by Elon at one point or another, and this will be my big hill that I die on.

But I don't believe right.

But I don't believe right.

Now that this is a very strong business and it's not something you would want to say, Hey, let's open up our books, let's go public, let's let investors get a look at how this is actually going, because I don't think it would go down with that.

Now that this is a very strong business and it's not something you would want to say, Hey, let's open up our books, let's go public, let's let investors get a look at how this is actually going, because I don't think it would go down with that.

I think then indeed the company has much greater value for Elon and his empire as a private, small, private entity within it that does access it to media.

I think then indeed the company has much greater value for Elon and his empire as a private, small, private entity within it that does access it to media.

Arm I am.

Arm I am.

Being told by our producer Magnus that we are skipping.

Being told by our producer Magnus that we are skipping.

The feud or skipping the feud we don't have time for it.

The feud or skipping the feud we don't have time for it.

Sounds like there is a feud you and the producers.

Sounds like there is a feud you and the producers.

We have to let every once in a while we have to listen to Magnus, Kurt, Dana, Max, thank you very much for joining.

We have to let every once in a while we have to listen to Magnus, Kurt, Dana, Max, thank you very much for joining.

Great to be here, Thanks for having us.

Great to be here, Thanks for having us.

Always a pleasure.

Always a pleasure.

This episode was produced by Stacy Wong.

This episode was produced by Stacy Wong.

Anna Masarrakas is our editor and Rayhan Harmancier, senior editor. The idea for this every show also came from Rayhon Blake Maple's Handles Engineering and Emma Sanchez fact checks. Our supervising producer is Magnus Henrickson.

Anna Masarrakas is our editor and Rayhan Harmancier, senior editor. The idea for this every show also came from Rayhon Blake Maple's Handles Engineering and Emma Sanchez fact checks. Our supervising producer is Magnus Henrickson.

The Elon Inc.

The Elon Inc.

Theme is written and performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugijira, Brendan Francis Newnham is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman is ahead of Bloomberg Podcasts. A big thanks as always to our supporters Joe Weber and Brad Stone.

Theme is written and performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugijira, Brendan Francis Newnham is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman is ahead of Bloomberg Podcasts. A big thanks as always to our supporters Joe Weber and Brad Stone.

I'm David Papadopoulos.

I'm David Papadopoulos.

If you have a minute, rate and review our show, it'll help other listeners find us. See you next week. Thanks for listening to the Elon Inc. Podcast. If you never want to miss a story, become a Bloomberg dot com subscriber today. Check out our special intro offer right now at Bloomberg dot com Backslash Podcast Offer or click the link in the show notes. You'll also unlock deep reporting data and analysis from reporters around the world.

If you have a minute, rate and review our show, it'll help other listeners find us. See you next week. Thanks for listening to the Elon Inc. Podcast. If you never want to miss a story, become a Bloomberg dot com subscriber today. Check out our special intro offer right now at Bloomberg dot com Backslash Podcast Offer or click the link in the show notes. You'll also unlock deep reporting data and analysis from reporters around the world.