Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.

Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.

Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet.

Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet.

More than half the satellites in space are owned and controlled by one man.

More than half the satellites in space are owned and controlled by one man.

Well, he's a legitimate super genius.

Well, he's a legitimate super genius.

I mean legitimate.

I mean legitimate.

He says he's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will be different.

He says he's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will be different.

He'll vote Republican.

He'll vote Republican.

There is a reason the US government is so reliant on him.

There is a reason the US government is so reliant on him.

Alon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing.

Alon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing.

Anything he does, he's fascinating people.

Anything he does, he's fascinating people.

Welcome to elan Ing, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. It's Tuesday, September seventeenth. I'm your host, David Papadopolis. Now following Elon can be a lot. One day he'll ekes out a wild conspiracy theory or offer to give Taylor Swift a child, and the next he's inking some multi billion dollar government contractor meeting with a powerful world leader. You just never know what you're gonna get when you open the newspaper. Will it be doctor Elon or will it be mister Musk. Sometimes it's a little of both, as was the case his past week. In recent days, Elon somehow inserted himself in the center of some of the most controversial and ugly moments of a presidential campaign season that has been frankly nothing but controversial and ugly. Meanwhile, his company, SpaceX made history one day and then landed a seriously good contract the other. To cure the spinning in my head, I'm joined in the studio by our regulars Elon Musk, reporter Dana Hall there, Dana Hey, BusinessWeek writer Max Chafkin, Max Hey, David, and Sarah, a friar who runs our Big Tech coverboard.

Welcome to elan Ing, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. It's Tuesday, September seventeenth. I'm your host, David Papadopolis. Now following Elon can be a lot. One day he'll ekes out a wild conspiracy theory or offer to give Taylor Swift a child, and the next he's inking some multi billion dollar government contractor meeting with a powerful world leader. You just never know what you're gonna get when you open the newspaper. Will it be doctor Elon or will it be mister Musk. Sometimes it's a little of both, as was the case his past week. In recent days, Elon somehow inserted himself in the center of some of the most controversial and ugly moments of a presidential campaign season that has been frankly nothing but controversial and ugly. Meanwhile, his company, SpaceX made history one day and then landed a seriously good contract the other. To cure the spinning in my head, I'm joined in the studio by our regulars Elon Musk, reporter Dana Hall there, Dana Hey, BusinessWeek writer Max Chafkin, Max Hey, David, and Sarah, a friar who runs our Big Tech coverboard.

Sarah, Hello, thank you for having me.

Sarah, Hello, thank you for having me.

Okay, so, and then later on we're going to be joined by Eric Johnson, our Space editor, to talk SpaceX. But Sarah, let's start with the e sing. So, as far as I could tell, and I was doing my darnness not to pay too much attention, but mostly failing, I've seen Elon on some kind of role. He did his best to spread the rumor that Haitian immigrants are consuming cats and dogs. He did, indeed tell Taylor Swift that he would give her a child, and then, in the wake of what appears to be a second assassination attempt on the former president Donald Trump. He wondered in an ex why no one is taking a crack at Kamala Harris and Joe Biden Sarah. He would go on to delete that ex but the damage was done.

Okay, so, and then later on we're going to be joined by Eric Johnson, our Space editor, to talk SpaceX. But Sarah, let's start with the e sing. So, as far as I could tell, and I was doing my darnness not to pay too much attention, but mostly failing, I've seen Elon on some kind of role. He did his best to spread the rumor that Haitian immigrants are consuming cats and dogs. He did, indeed tell Taylor Swift that he would give her a child, and then, in the wake of what appears to be a second assassination attempt on the former president Donald Trump. He wondered in an ex why no one is taking a crack at Kamala Harris and Joe Biden Sarah. He would go on to delete that ex but the damage was done.

H The deleting was probably the most surprising part of that, the fact that he you know, backed down and took it back. I think we are just seeing Musk go on an absolute power trip over these conspiracies that I think are very popular in the Trump dvance world, but of course have have little connection or no connection in the case of the Haitian conspiracy to reality. And I think that it doesn't matter for Musk. When he took over Twitter, if you remember, he said, like, you know, humor is allowed on the Internet. Again, those aren't his exact words, but he sees this as like as like playing online trolling and posting, and am I allowed to say posting?

H The deleting was probably the most surprising part of that, the fact that he you know, backed down and took it back. I think we are just seeing Musk go on an absolute power trip over these conspiracies that I think are very popular in the Trump dvance world, but of course have have little connection or no connection in the case of the Haitian conspiracy to reality. And I think that it doesn't matter for Musk. When he took over Twitter, if you remember, he said, like, you know, humor is allowed on the Internet. Again, those aren't his exact words, but he sees this as like as like playing online trolling and posting, and am I allowed to say posting?

You just did?

You just did?

I just did that is I think the technical term for like just going absolutely wild on the internet against your rivals and then saying it was.

I just did that is I think the technical term for like just going absolutely wild on the internet against your rivals and then saying it was.

All a joke, which is what he said about.

All a joke, which is what he said about.

That Kamala Biden. You know, why have and they've been assassinated to get comment. Of course, these things that he does do not exist in some you know X group chat vacuum that he has. They have real world implications. There have been bomb threats on schools in Springfield, where one of the cities that has been a target of those anti immigrant rumors, and coming out and adding fuel to that fire has real world danger. And it really doesn't seem to resonate with Musk that that's something that he is control of, or maybe if he does sense that he has power over it, he doesn't care.

That Kamala Biden. You know, why have and they've been assassinated to get comment. Of course, these things that he does do not exist in some you know X group chat vacuum that he has. They have real world implications. There have been bomb threats on schools in Springfield, where one of the cities that has been a target of those anti immigrant rumors, and coming out and adding fuel to that fire has real world danger. And it really doesn't seem to resonate with Musk that that's something that he is control of, or maybe if he does sense that he has power over it, he doesn't care.

You know what's weird to me about this is that Musk is someone who is deeply paranoid about his own security, right. I mean, he travels with a phalanx of bodyguards, he has young kids. There are all kinds of like fans and stalkers who are trying to like climb over the SpaceX fence to get to him. And there was actually like a disgruntled Tesla employee who drove to Austin from Minnesota after threatening to kill both Joe Biden and Elon. Fortunately, like the cops got wind of bit ahead of time and they arrested this guy. But like Musk knows that, like there are serious attempts, you know, on all political leaders and on himself. And so for someone who is so paranoid about his own security to kind of make this flippant, quote unquote joke about the current president. I mean, I just sort of wonder legally if it if it's incitement of violence, because that's certainly what critics are saying. And I wonder, like, you know, he left it up for hours, it got forty million impressions. Did he take it down because he got a phone call from the FBI or the Secret Service? Or was there just like enough of a backlash among his employees, Like I mean, that tweet was up for quite a long time, and now he's just sort of back at it again today.

You know what's weird to me about this is that Musk is someone who is deeply paranoid about his own security, right. I mean, he travels with a phalanx of bodyguards, he has young kids. There are all kinds of like fans and stalkers who are trying to like climb over the SpaceX fence to get to him. And there was actually like a disgruntled Tesla employee who drove to Austin from Minnesota after threatening to kill both Joe Biden and Elon. Fortunately, like the cops got wind of bit ahead of time and they arrested this guy. But like Musk knows that, like there are serious attempts, you know, on all political leaders and on himself. And so for someone who is so paranoid about his own security to kind of make this flippant, quote unquote joke about the current president. I mean, I just sort of wonder legally if it if it's incitement of violence, because that's certainly what critics are saying. And I wonder, like, you know, he left it up for hours, it got forty million impressions. Did he take it down because he got a phone call from the FBI or the Secret Service? Or was there just like enough of a backlash among his employees, Like I mean, that tweet was up for quite a long time, and now he's just sort of back at it again today.

Yeah, well, Max, you looked into the legality question, what would you find?

Yeah, well, Max, you looked into the legality question, what would you find?

So in the United States famously has very expansive, very expansive view of free speech, whu more expansive than in other countries. You know, what Musk did is probably legal. The Supreme Court has held that it needs to be a true threat. In other words, if you're joking, if you're just spouting off, if you're engaging in political speech. I think all of those are potential explanations for what Musk was doing, and of course he offered the joking explanation. You're allowed to get you know, you're allowed to use violent metaphors and so on, so it's unlikely that it's illegal. But I do think Dan is probably right that that somebody in a position of authority may have complained, because of course Musk isn't just a regular guy. He's got a huge following, and these the words that he is saying have consequences, consequences for real people. And Sarah brought up what's happened in Springfield, where Springfield, Ohio, where schools have closed, where people are suffering because of these lies that are being you know, transmitted, generated by Elon Musk and others on his platform, and and like, you know, we're seeing another version of it. You know, he took it down and offered kind of a lame explanation that doesn't make sense because I don't think it was funny. But of course he's saying it was a joke, so hopefully he won't suggest that any other public figures need to be assassinated in the future.

So in the United States famously has very expansive, very expansive view of free speech, whu more expansive than in other countries. You know, what Musk did is probably legal. The Supreme Court has held that it needs to be a true threat. In other words, if you're joking, if you're just spouting off, if you're engaging in political speech. I think all of those are potential explanations for what Musk was doing, and of course he offered the joking explanation. You're allowed to get you know, you're allowed to use violent metaphors and so on, so it's unlikely that it's illegal. But I do think Dan is probably right that that somebody in a position of authority may have complained, because of course Musk isn't just a regular guy. He's got a huge following, and these the words that he is saying have consequences, consequences for real people. And Sarah brought up what's happened in Springfield, where Springfield, Ohio, where schools have closed, where people are suffering because of these lies that are being you know, transmitted, generated by Elon Musk and others on his platform, and and like, you know, we're seeing another version of it. You know, he took it down and offered kind of a lame explanation that doesn't make sense because I don't think it was funny. But of course he's saying it was a joke, so hopefully he won't suggest that any other public figures need to be assassinated in the future.

It's just so so frequently the response to this kind of thing, this kind of thing is that, you know, outrage from liberals is kind of the goal. Like when this kind of thing happens, it's it's like, oh my god, we made them freak out again, Like how do they not understand our humor? Like why are they such you know, I remember the term snowflakes in the earlier Trump administration. Right, this is almost a means to to provoke, to to get a reaction, to troll to troll. And I think that the Kamala Harris campaign their strategy is to kind of like point and laugh when when Republicans do that, instead kind of leaning into the oh my gosh, we're so horrified, this is so scary Sarah.

It's just so so frequently the response to this kind of thing, this kind of thing is that, you know, outrage from liberals is kind of the goal. Like when this kind of thing happens, it's it's like, oh my god, we made them freak out again, Like how do they not understand our humor? Like why are they such you know, I remember the term snowflakes in the earlier Trump administration. Right, this is almost a means to to provoke, to to get a reaction, to troll to troll. And I think that the Kamala Harris campaign their strategy is to kind of like point and laugh when when Republicans do that, instead kind of leaning into the oh my gosh, we're so horrified, this is so scary Sarah.

Which is what she did so effectively during the debate when Trump launched into his hole in Springfield. They're eating the cats, they're eating the dogs. She did break out into laughter. I guess the other question I have, though, Max, is when he took it down and before he did, I wonder if the government had particular leverage on him, given the nature the contracts that he's got with the Defense Department, with NASAU, with with other departments across the across the government.

Which is what she did so effectively during the debate when Trump launched into his hole in Springfield. They're eating the cats, they're eating the dogs. She did break out into laughter. I guess the other question I have, though, Max, is when he took it down and before he did, I wonder if the government had particular leverage on him, given the nature the contracts that he's got with the Defense Department, with NASAU, with with other departments across the across the government.

I mean, I have to think it didn't get that far. I mean, it does there is like something strange and potentially interesting about about a major defense contractor first of all, major defense hunter getting so involved in the political processes as Elon Musk has, but also you know, obviously like going more towards a tiptoeing the line towards incitement like that seems like the kind of thing that the Defense Department and others probably consider problematic. But my guess is like FBI, somebody in a position of authority gave him a friendly call and suggested that what he was doing was dangerous without having to exert any extra pressure.

I mean, I have to think it didn't get that far. I mean, it does there is like something strange and potentially interesting about about a major defense contractor first of all, major defense hunter getting so involved in the political processes as Elon Musk has, but also you know, obviously like going more towards a tiptoeing the line towards incitement like that seems like the kind of thing that the Defense Department and others probably consider problematic. But my guess is like FBI, somebody in a position of authority gave him a friendly call and suggested that what he was doing was dangerous without having to exert any extra pressure.

And danis So I guess this has got me just thinking that the whole thing, especially this ratitat that rapid fire, you know, him inserting himself into one of these you know, big issues after another and really throwing himself into the political sphere is just a window into the extreme politization of Elon Musk.

And danis So I guess this has got me just thinking that the whole thing, especially this ratitat that rapid fire, you know, him inserting himself into one of these you know, big issues after another and really throwing himself into the political sphere is just a window into the extreme politization of Elon Musk.

Well the way that I think of it as twofold. So, you know, on the one hand, Musk is using his money. He created a super pack called America Pack. They are not just funding, you know, helping to fund the Trump campaign, but they are now going down ballot, like we have a stor out this morning based on an FC filing that I spotted really late last night. They are now funding like over fifteen house races and key districts in Maine, in Nebraska, California, Ohio, New Jersey, New York. Like he is all in. He's like the new Sheldon Nagelsen right in terms of just like funding not just Trump but you know, but very key congressional races in an attempt to keep the House. But separately, the way that he behaves on X, the platform that he owns, is like an in kind contribution to the Trump campaign because Trump and Vans are running on immigration and fear, and Elon Musk is all about amplifying those fears and amplifying all this nonsense about you know, immigration and crime, and like he so it's like it's like a tacit.

Well the way that I think of it as twofold. So, you know, on the one hand, Musk is using his money. He created a super pack called America Pack. They are not just funding, you know, helping to fund the Trump campaign, but they are now going down ballot, like we have a stor out this morning based on an FC filing that I spotted really late last night. They are now funding like over fifteen house races and key districts in Maine, in Nebraska, California, Ohio, New Jersey, New York. Like he is all in. He's like the new Sheldon Nagelsen right in terms of just like funding not just Trump but you know, but very key congressional races in an attempt to keep the House. But separately, the way that he behaves on X, the platform that he owns, is like an in kind contribution to the Trump campaign because Trump and Vans are running on immigration and fear, and Elon Musk is all about amplifying those fears and amplifying all this nonsense about you know, immigration and crime, and like he so it's like it's like a tacit.

You know.

You know.

I don't know if the campaigns are coordinating, but like that is the main message of the Trump Vans campaign, and those are the main messages that Musk is amplifying on the platform that he owns.

I don't know if the campaigns are coordinating, but like that is the main message of the Trump Vans campaign, and those are the main messages that Musk is amplifying on the platform that he owns.

No, that's absolutely right. And I guess the question I have for you guys is, you know, to me, as I watched the way it played out two days later at the debate. It comes out of Trump's mouth and that ramble. It comes off to me watching it from apart, as patently absurd and a losing hand for the Republicans and for their candidate.

No, that's absolutely right. And I guess the question I have for you guys is, you know, to me, as I watched the way it played out two days later at the debate. It comes out of Trump's mouth and that ramble. It comes off to me watching it from apart, as patently absurd and a losing hand for the Republicans and for their candidate.

It's not a.

It's not a.

Losing hand because it's all anyone is talking about. It's like it is a strategy, because all of a sudden, everyone is talking about cats and dogs and Haiti and immigration and not the economy and abortion rights, and it is a strategy.

Losing hand because it's all anyone is talking about. It's like it is a strategy, because all of a sudden, everyone is talking about cats and dogs and Haiti and immigration and not the economy and abortion rights, and it is a strategy.

There's a difference though, between saying it's a good strategy and it's a strategy. I think Dan is right. It is a strategy, and depending on what happens, we can conclude that it was good or bad. But it does not, on its face a good strategy. I think most people when you look at the polling of that debate, the polling was very much in Harris's favor. We've talked about the ways that Elon Musk has sort of red pilled himself into the fringe and how that is bad for business. I think it's also bad for Donald Trump. The fringe is not a majority, but.

There's a difference though, between saying it's a good strategy and it's a strategy. I think Dan is right. It is a strategy, and depending on what happens, we can conclude that it was good or bad. But it does not, on its face a good strategy. I think most people when you look at the polling of that debate, the polling was very much in Harris's favor. We've talked about the ways that Elon Musk has sort of red pilled himself into the fringe and how that is bad for business. I think it's also bad for Donald Trump. The fringe is not a majority, but.

If you watch the debate, sure, but people aren't getting their information from the events as they happen anymore, they're getting the information as it's recycled and remixed by online commentators, and so in that world, this doesn't actually matter if something is true. It just matters if one of the people you follow, who you admire says it's good for Trump process.

If you watch the debate, sure, but people aren't getting their information from the events as they happen anymore, they're getting the information as it's recycled and remixed by online commentators, and so in that world, this doesn't actually matter if something is true. It just matters if one of the people you follow, who you admire says it's good for Trump process.

That's definitely a fair point, and you know, all shall be revealed when they cast the votes in early November. But Sarah, I would say that a a lot of people actually did watch that debate. I don't remember the exact number, but it was a significant chunk of the population. And b again, I get how everyone's talking about it, but you know, when Hillary Clinton made that big mistake of uttering the words, you know, calling a large chunk of the Trump supporters or was it a basket of the poor plorable, everybody was talking about that as well, and that was an unmitigated disaster for her campaign. But you know, Dana, you've been doing a lot of reporting on the activity of Musk's pack. I believe you guys are reported recently that they've we've seen some of the numbers in terms of the kind of money they've actually been spending in the last couple months.

That's definitely a fair point, and you know, all shall be revealed when they cast the votes in early November. But Sarah, I would say that a a lot of people actually did watch that debate. I don't remember the exact number, but it was a significant chunk of the population. And b again, I get how everyone's talking about it, but you know, when Hillary Clinton made that big mistake of uttering the words, you know, calling a large chunk of the Trump supporters or was it a basket of the poor plorable, everybody was talking about that as well, and that was an unmitigated disaster for her campaign. But you know, Dana, you've been doing a lot of reporting on the activity of Musk's pack. I believe you guys are reported recently that they've we've seen some of the numbers in terms of the kind of money they've actually been spending in the last couple months.

Yeah, I mean it's so it's the filings tick up every you know, like there's basically like a filing every night that looks at their expenditures and the total spent by the pack is fifty million. And this is on everything's from text messages to mailers to hiring door knockers and key states like North Carolina and Michigan. But Musk is also going down ballot and in this filing last night, you're seeing them spend it's like roughly two million dollars on like fifteen different house races and that that might not sound like a lot of money, but like we're going to continue to see spending between now and November, and just the fact that they are now targeting the house just shows that, like Musk is going for the trifecta and you know these are these are key races that could that could swing you know, they're just gonna be very important.

Yeah, I mean it's so it's the filings tick up every you know, like there's basically like a filing every night that looks at their expenditures and the total spent by the pack is fifty million. And this is on everything's from text messages to mailers to hiring door knockers and key states like North Carolina and Michigan. But Musk is also going down ballot and in this filing last night, you're seeing them spend it's like roughly two million dollars on like fifteen different house races and that that might not sound like a lot of money, but like we're going to continue to see spending between now and November, and just the fact that they are now targeting the house just shows that, like Musk is going for the trifecta and you know these are these are key races that could that could swing you know, they're just gonna be very important.

Yeah, we've got actually one of the ads here that has been produced by his pack. Let's listen to it.

Yeah, we've got actually one of the ads here that has been produced by his pack. Let's listen to it.

Now.

Now.

If you sit the selection out, Kamala and the Crazies will win. That means you'll be stuck with igher costs and more illegals invading our country. Now Trump is the American badass. Will stop this nonsense, vote for Trump and save America.

If you sit the selection out, Kamala and the Crazies will win. That means you'll be stuck with igher costs and more illegals invading our country. Now Trump is the American badass. Will stop this nonsense, vote for Trump and save America.

You know what, this whole thing strikes me as as a lifelong gambler who knows what it's like as you're getting towards the end of the end of the day at the races and your down money max is, you know, you start doubling and tripling down to try to get out and try to get back to even or up money. I get the sense that when he, you know, launched in and threw his support behind Trump, things were looking rosy and pretty darn good, and now that they're looking a little less good, you know, he's like I get a little bit of this double and triple down sense.

You know what, this whole thing strikes me as as a lifelong gambler who knows what it's like as you're getting towards the end of the end of the day at the races and your down money max is, you know, you start doubling and tripling down to try to get out and try to get back to even or up money. I get the sense that when he, you know, launched in and threw his support behind Trump, things were looking rosy and pretty darn good, and now that they're looking a little less good, you know, he's like I get a little bit of this double and triple down sense.

I mean, I think that Dana and Sarah are both hinting at this in various ways. But like, you know, turning out your base is like one part part of how you win an election, and like I think you could kind of you can, you know, interpret this ad in that way as like this is a way to increase turnout among people who are likely to support President Trump. On the other hand, it does feel just like the kind like just not something that is gonna like sway a swing voter. I just taken a couple steps back. One thing that has struck me listening to Dana and reading her reporting is just when Elon Musk first started talking about these donations, right there was all of this question like is he really gonna do it? He kind of created all this uncertainty. He's like, I'm not supporting Trump, I'm I'm just creating a meritocratic pack or whatever, and like that's all out the window right this. And it's not only out the window in the sense that he is all in for Trump, as you're saying, as we're all saying, but also in the sense that he's spending real money, Like we're fifty three million dollars. That's that's where it is. I just looked according to Open secrets dot Com. Could be a day or something late, but like that's fairly up to date in terms of how much money they spent. That's a big number. That makes it one of the biggest independent committees this cycle to date, and there's it's going to go up from there, Like he We're going to look back on this as being an election where Elon Musk put a significant amount of money to work. Comparing Micheldon Adelson I think is the correct comparison.

I mean, I think that Dana and Sarah are both hinting at this in various ways. But like, you know, turning out your base is like one part part of how you win an election, and like I think you could kind of you can, you know, interpret this ad in that way as like this is a way to increase turnout among people who are likely to support President Trump. On the other hand, it does feel just like the kind like just not something that is gonna like sway a swing voter. I just taken a couple steps back. One thing that has struck me listening to Dana and reading her reporting is just when Elon Musk first started talking about these donations, right there was all of this question like is he really gonna do it? He kind of created all this uncertainty. He's like, I'm not supporting Trump, I'm I'm just creating a meritocratic pack or whatever, and like that's all out the window right this. And it's not only out the window in the sense that he is all in for Trump, as you're saying, as we're all saying, but also in the sense that he's spending real money, Like we're fifty three million dollars. That's that's where it is. I just looked according to Open secrets dot Com. Could be a day or something late, but like that's fairly up to date in terms of how much money they spent. That's a big number. That makes it one of the biggest independent committees this cycle to date, and there's it's going to go up from there, Like he We're going to look back on this as being an election where Elon Musk put a significant amount of money to work. Comparing Micheldon Adelson I think is the correct comparison.

And for the uninitiated, Sheldon Aedelson.

And for the uninitiated, Sheldon Aedelson.

Was a prominent, a very wealthy Republican donor who donated to conservative causes and was Trump's main backer.

Was a prominent, a very wealthy Republican donor who donated to conservative causes and was Trump's main backer.

You know.

You know.

Elon Musk. His rationale for like supporting Trump was he watched the assassination attempt, the first assassination attempt, and thought like wow, like this guy is really tough. And that that was like how he explained his rationale of support.

Elon Musk. His rationale for like supporting Trump was he watched the assassination attempt, the first assassination attempt, and thought like wow, like this guy is really tough. And that that was like how he explained his rationale of support.

We need to say goodbye to Sarah, but Max and Dana don't go anywhere, Sarah. We will see you soon.

We need to say goodbye to Sarah, but Max and Dana don't go anywhere, Sarah. We will see you soon.

Thank you, thank you.

Thank you, thank you.

Okay, so we're now done with politics and conspiracy theories. We're done with mister Musk. We shall now move on to doctor Elon and his business empire, which up in space is doing quite quite well. Last week, his space company, SpaceX, pulled off the first commercial spacewalk in history, and then a day or so later, a unit of SpaceX, Starlink, signed a big deal to provide the Internet to United Airlines. And to talk about that, we've got Eric Johnson, our crack Space editor. Hey there, Eric, good to be here, Okay, Eric, So it's my understanding here that with this SpaceX commercial spacewalk they pulled off that there are a few records and firsts achieved hit us with them.

Okay, so we're now done with politics and conspiracy theories. We're done with mister Musk. We shall now move on to doctor Elon and his business empire, which up in space is doing quite quite well. Last week, his space company, SpaceX, pulled off the first commercial spacewalk in history, and then a day or so later, a unit of SpaceX, Starlink, signed a big deal to provide the Internet to United Airlines. And to talk about that, we've got Eric Johnson, our crack Space editor. Hey there, Eric, good to be here, Okay, Eric, So it's my understanding here that with this SpaceX commercial spacewalk they pulled off that there are a few records and firsts achieved hit us with them.

That's right.

That's right.

So is a big week for SpaceX. You saw four crew civilians, relatively untrained astronauts go up and perform the world's first commercial space Let.

So is a big week for SpaceX. You saw four crew civilians, relatively untrained astronauts go up and perform the world's first commercial space Let.

Me interrupt you for a second and say, by the way, while when we say space walk throughout the show here, our listeners won't see it, but we're gonna do air quotes around walk. Okay, space walk.

Me interrupt you for a second and say, by the way, while when we say space walk throughout the show here, our listeners won't see it, but we're gonna do air quotes around walk. Okay, space walk.

I was waiting for you to jump in on that.

I was waiting for you to jump in on that.

So just to be clear, they didn't actually walk anywhere, right, This wasn't like the Apollo era moon landings. But they did go fourteen hundred kilometers up, which is the furthest that humans have gone since the moon landings, and so that was an incredible milestone.

So just to be clear, they didn't actually walk anywhere, right, This wasn't like the Apollo era moon landings. But they did go fourteen hundred kilometers up, which is the furthest that humans have gone since the moon landings, and so that was an incredible milestone.

Another thing that.

Another thing that.

They achieved was actually depressurizing the capsule in the middle Lovelus to set up the walk, and so they actually opened the hatch and expose the entire interior to the vacuum of space. And so two of them, billionaire Jared Eisaman and SpaceX is Sarah Gillis, an engineer, actually took turns and for a few minutes halfway out of the capsule, roughly.

They achieved was actually depressurizing the capsule in the middle Lovelus to set up the walk, and so they actually opened the hatch and expose the entire interior to the vacuum of space. And so two of them, billionaire Jared Eisaman and SpaceX is Sarah Gillis, an engineer, actually took turns and for a few minutes halfway out of the capsule, roughly.

They were so frits popping out of like a hole or something is what.

They were so frits popping out of like a hole or something is what.

Or like a turtle put his head out and then sucking it back in.

Or like a turtle put his head out and then sucking it back in.

But you know, to be fair, they were hurtling around the Earth at you know, seventeen thousand miles per hour. It's dangerous, precarious, and and so they they emerged from the capsule, they did some maneuvers with a relatively sleek and skinnier spacesuit that SpaceX designed and test the mobility of it, and then went back in, returned pressure to the cabin and came home, you know, just for people to understand, I mean, they were higher up than the International Space Station, and so you know, everybody knows that spacewalks are relatively common. I mean we've seen them, of course, you know in Hollywood, but we see the astronauts and their huge bulky spacesuits go out the ISS and they do repairs and different fixes on the station. But this was the first. This is different than that in that they were in their own spacecraft separate from anything else and exposed to the vacuum of space for the direction.

But you know, to be fair, they were hurtling around the Earth at you know, seventeen thousand miles per hour. It's dangerous, precarious, and and so they they emerged from the capsule, they did some maneuvers with a relatively sleek and skinnier spacesuit that SpaceX designed and test the mobility of it, and then went back in, returned pressure to the cabin and came home, you know, just for people to understand, I mean, they were higher up than the International Space Station, and so you know, everybody knows that spacewalks are relatively common. I mean we've seen them, of course, you know in Hollywood, but we see the astronauts and their huge bulky spacesuits go out the ISS and they do repairs and different fixes on the station. But this was the first. This is different than that in that they were in their own spacecraft separate from anything else and exposed to the vacuum of space for the direction.

Now I get the sense here that a lot of this mission was about those super cool, sleek space suits and testing them out. Was that the I mean, and I guess in addition to charging this billionaire money to give them this space walk or space walk, was it all about testing out these suits?

Now I get the sense here that a lot of this mission was about those super cool, sleek space suits and testing them out. Was that the I mean, and I guess in addition to charging this billionaire money to give them this space walk or space walk, was it all about testing out these suits?

That was a major mission parameter is you know, we don't exactly know what SpaceX intends to do with these suits, but visually, at least esthetically, I mean, you know, SpaceX elon Musk they love aesthetics. So if you compare the suits they were wearing to the traditional suits, they were you know, thinner and usually like skinny go skinny jeans, skinny, and so when they came out of the capsule, you saw them moving their arms around. You know, they still didn't have total mobility. But the idea, presumably is that there's space actual have an iterative approach to these suits, so they will be used in some form for future missions. They'll be upgraded and then you know, when they go people go to Mars at some point, maybe some futuristic version of this suit.

That was a major mission parameter is you know, we don't exactly know what SpaceX intends to do with these suits, but visually, at least esthetically, I mean, you know, SpaceX elon Musk they love aesthetics. So if you compare the suits they were wearing to the traditional suits, they were you know, thinner and usually like skinny go skinny jeans, skinny, and so when they came out of the capsule, you saw them moving their arms around. You know, they still didn't have total mobility. But the idea, presumably is that there's space actual have an iterative approach to these suits, so they will be used in some form for future missions. They'll be upgraded and then you know, when they go people go to Mars at some point, maybe some futuristic version of this suit.

Will be used everyone's going to be wearing skinny jeans and skinny suits up on Mark. What I mean, Dana, when you just did that whole Mars interview last week, did the I can't remember, did the space suits come up?

Will be used everyone's going to be wearing skinny jeans and skinny suits up on Mark. What I mean, Dana, when you just did that whole Mars interview last week, did the I can't remember, did the space suits come up?

We didn't really talk about the spacesuits. Kirsen and I were talking more about like how people are going to eat on Mars and what their protein source is going to be. But I do have a question for Eric, Like I barely paid attention to this mission. All I knew was that like a billionaire and was one of the people on Polaris John, So did he fund this whole thing?

We didn't really talk about the spacesuits. Kirsen and I were talking more about like how people are going to eat on Mars and what their protein source is going to be. But I do have a question for Eric, Like I barely paid attention to this mission. All I knew was that like a billionaire and was one of the people on Polaris John, So did he fund this whole thing?

Like?

Like?

How did this whole how did this whole like sort of joint venture come about between these private people that wanted to go up and SpaceX being the cap being the launch provider that got them there.

How did this whole how did this whole like sort of joint venture come about between these private people that wanted to go up and SpaceX being the cap being the launch provider that got them there.

That's a great point, is that so SpaceX supplied the rocket and the capsule put it up.

That's a great point, is that so SpaceX supplied the rocket and the capsule put it up.

Jared isisming bankrolled it, right.

Jared isisming bankrolled it, right.

We don't know how much he's spent to do that, but he's a massive aviation enthusiast, he's a pilot. And then you know, of course you have the SpaceX personnel that joined and so this is part of the Polaris program, which is a multi mission program bankrolled by Isaacman. This was one of the first steps or second flight actually the first time the private crew went around the Earth a few times and came back. This time they did a spacewalk, and then there'll be additional missions in the future that will culminate at some point with a crude mission on one of SpaceX's colossal starship rockets. Don't know when that is, and we don't know exactly what parameters or shape these missions will take, but it's part of the Polaris program.

We don't know how much he's spent to do that, but he's a massive aviation enthusiast, he's a pilot. And then you know, of course you have the SpaceX personnel that joined and so this is part of the Polaris program, which is a multi mission program bankrolled by Isaacman. This was one of the first steps or second flight actually the first time the private crew went around the Earth a few times and came back. This time they did a spacewalk, and then there'll be additional missions in the future that will culminate at some point with a crude mission on one of SpaceX's colossal starship rockets. Don't know when that is, and we don't know exactly what parameters or shape these missions will take, but it's part of the Polaris program.

We need to come back to Earth or closer to Earth and talk about this big deal that SpaceX is starlink unit signed with United Airlines.

We need to come back to Earth or closer to Earth and talk about this big deal that SpaceX is starlink unit signed with United Airlines.

Tell us about it again.

Tell us about it again.

Big week for SpaceX. This was a pretty landmark deal, a watershed moment. This was the first US major airline that SpaceX has been able to woo to its starlink service. So, you know, as everyone knows, Starlink has grown to be the most advanced and largest, you know, space beamed internet service globally. They've made substantial inroads with maritime shippers, cruise lines. They are on some airlines already like Air Baltic and Hawaiian and JSX, but they finally were able to crack into the US aviation network.

Big week for SpaceX. This was a pretty landmark deal, a watershed moment. This was the first US major airline that SpaceX has been able to woo to its starlink service. So, you know, as everyone knows, Starlink has grown to be the most advanced and largest, you know, space beamed internet service globally. They've made substantial inroads with maritime shippers, cruise lines. They are on some airlines already like Air Baltic and Hawaiian and JSX, but they finally were able to crack into the US aviation network.

It's early, they have a lot to prove, but this.

It's early, they have a lot to prove, but this.

Deal is significant in that you know, they've got more than three million subscribers globally for on the consumer side, so it's a strong sign to growth. And I think you saw that in the reaction of the stocks from legacy satellite.

Deal is significant in that you know, they've got more than three million subscribers globally for on the consumer side, so it's a strong sign to growth. And I think you saw that in the reaction of the stocks from legacy satellite.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I did notice that. You know, Visa sat which is one of those legacy providers. Yeah, it's stock collapsed fifteen percent that day. Go Go another one fell a fair amount. Obviously, Max Starlink and SpaceX are private companies, so it's hard to see. It's hard to know just what kind of value investors are putting on a deal like this. But if you take the inverse of those collapses and those stocks, well, presumably it's an increase in the in the value of SpaceX and stock.

I did notice that. You know, Visa sat which is one of those legacy providers. Yeah, it's stock collapsed fifteen percent that day. Go Go another one fell a fair amount. Obviously, Max Starlink and SpaceX are private companies, so it's hard to see. It's hard to know just what kind of value investors are putting on a deal like this. But if you take the inverse of those collapses and those stocks, well, presumably it's an increase in the in the value of SpaceX and stock.

I just have to say, as someone who recently flew from Washington, d C. To San Francisco on United where I had to pay eight dollars for really lousy Wi Fi, like, I think this is great, like as a consumer, and I think that Starlink is going to be a big It's going to be a big revenue maker for SpaceX. I guess the question I always have is like when or is SpaceX going to spin out Starlink, because at one point there was this whole idea that Starlink was going to be spun out as like a separate business and IPO separately from SpaceX as a whole. But we haven't really heard much about that recently. I mean, they're not separate companies. Starlink is basically like the big business unit within SpaceX.

I just have to say, as someone who recently flew from Washington, d C. To San Francisco on United where I had to pay eight dollars for really lousy Wi Fi, like, I think this is great, like as a consumer, and I think that Starlink is going to be a big It's going to be a big revenue maker for SpaceX. I guess the question I always have is like when or is SpaceX going to spin out Starlink, because at one point there was this whole idea that Starlink was going to be spun out as like a separate business and IPO separately from SpaceX as a whole. But we haven't really heard much about that recently. I mean, they're not separate companies. Starlink is basically like the big business unit within SpaceX.

So the one thing I'll say about this is that, like, it's great news obviously for SpaceX. Totally agree with what Eric's saying, but like these companies that you're talking about, Eric via sad, these are not large businesses, not by Elon Musk standards. Like Vasat's market cap not sure how much tiny it's yeah it's tiny, Yeah one point seven. I just looked it up, and you know, obviously the stock fell a lot. But with SpaceX, they're talking about valuations, and even if it's if it's just Starlink, we're going to be talking about a much much larger valuation. And I don't think it's clear yet that the company has come anywhere near living up to that. Selling internet to consumers is a very difficult, very competitive business. It's if to make this work, it's like going to be some combination of kind of the Elon Musk Elon Musk kind of ability to tell a story, and the story has to be that like they're taking the whole market because the because the markets for these things are not very large.

So the one thing I'll say about this is that, like, it's great news obviously for SpaceX. Totally agree with what Eric's saying, but like these companies that you're talking about, Eric via sad, these are not large businesses, not by Elon Musk standards. Like Vasat's market cap not sure how much tiny it's yeah it's tiny, Yeah one point seven. I just looked it up, and you know, obviously the stock fell a lot. But with SpaceX, they're talking about valuations, and even if it's if it's just Starlink, we're going to be talking about a much much larger valuation. And I don't think it's clear yet that the company has come anywhere near living up to that. Selling internet to consumers is a very difficult, very competitive business. It's if to make this work, it's like going to be some combination of kind of the Elon Musk Elon Musk kind of ability to tell a story, and the story has to be that like they're taking the whole market because the because the markets for these things are not very large.

But you know, Eric, for me, actually, I was thinking that as I see this deal get inked, and I think about the way it's increasingly being used in places like you know, the remote you know, farms in Brazil, certainly for all its you know, defense and wartime applications, the way it's being used in maritime and so on and so forth. That to me, I feel like the business model and the growth model for Starlink are starting to come more clearly into focus. Max is obviously having none of it.

But you know, Eric, for me, actually, I was thinking that as I see this deal get inked, and I think about the way it's increasingly being used in places like you know, the remote you know, farms in Brazil, certainly for all its you know, defense and wartime applications, the way it's being used in maritime and so on and so forth. That to me, I feel like the business model and the growth model for Starlink are starting to come more clearly into focus. Max is obviously having none of it.

What say you, I think Max makes some very good Max, but the growth of Starlink and the challenges. When I saw this press release, my first thought is, Okay, SpaceX has finally been able to demonstrate to a global US carrier that this service can be better than what it has it for years struggled to do that because they had capacity problems. And I have to get a little geeky for a second. The companies whose stocks were battered operate colossal satellites that are orbit in fixed position over the Earth, very high up, much higher than SpaceX's satellites. SpaceX's big idea is to have thousands of smaller satellites orbiting much closer to the Earth, and therefore as the satellites whizz around the Earth and talk to each other, they can beam data down much quicker.

What say you, I think Max makes some very good Max, but the growth of Starlink and the challenges. When I saw this press release, my first thought is, Okay, SpaceX has finally been able to demonstrate to a global US carrier that this service can be better than what it has it for years struggled to do that because they had capacity problems. And I have to get a little geeky for a second. The companies whose stocks were battered operate colossal satellites that are orbit in fixed position over the Earth, very high up, much higher than SpaceX's satellites. SpaceX's big idea is to have thousands of smaller satellites orbiting much closer to the Earth, and therefore as the satellites whizz around the Earth and talk to each other, they can beam data down much quicker.

Than these other satellites that are much higher up.

Than these other satellites that are much higher up.

Now, the higher up ones are really great because they orbit in a fixed position and so you have a reliable stream of data right where you want it. And so the problem SpaceX needed to solve was that it needed to launch a huge number of satellites to be able to compete with this, so that the scale, if you will, has started to tip in their favor. I do think Max makes a great point about the rollout, because there's major questions about how this technology will perform on United flights.

Now, the higher up ones are really great because they orbit in a fixed position and so you have a reliable stream of data right where you want it. And so the problem SpaceX needed to solve was that it needed to launch a huge number of satellites to be able to compete with this, so that the scale, if you will, has started to tip in their favor. I do think Max makes a great point about the rollout, because there's major questions about how this technology will perform on United flights.

And eric on that point, and with this we need to wrap up here, my friend, But you said that this starlink service is already being used on several air lines, including Hawaiian air How has it held up so far? Is it truly superior or even far superior to what you'd get on other flights and other carriers.

And eric on that point, and with this we need to wrap up here, my friend, But you said that this starlink service is already being used on several air lines, including Hawaiian air How has it held up so far? Is it truly superior or even far superior to what you'd get on other flights and other carriers.

I mean, the reports overall are good, but it's SpaceX's Starlink is really good at rural and remote locations. So over the ocean, right if you think about a ship or with its crew sitting in the middle of the Atlantic, that works. But as they encroaches closer and closer on dense urban areas where there's huge demand and pressure put on a single satellite from lots of consumers, that's when the service can start to bring it.

I mean, the reports overall are good, but it's SpaceX's Starlink is really good at rural and remote locations. So over the ocean, right if you think about a ship or with its crew sitting in the middle of the Atlantic, that works. But as they encroaches closer and closer on dense urban areas where there's huge demand and pressure put on a single satellite from lots of consumers, that's when the service can start to bring it.

Wasn't there a case a couple of years ago, like over Chicago or something, Well, we made it.

Wasn't there a case a couple of years ago, like over Chicago or something, Well, we made it.

You made it by breaking the news.

You made it by breaking the news.

So SpaceX had this big trial and they were with Delta and they took a single flight up over Chicago and this was a big demonstration flight for starlink.

So SpaceX had this big trial and they were with Delta and they took a single flight up over Chicago and this was a big demonstration flight for starlink.

A couple of years back. To be fair and starlingkuin connect they.

A couple of years back. To be fair and starlingkuin connect they.

Couldn't get it to work, and so SpaceX's quick solution was to shut down Internet connection to the city of Chicago below to all their customers. Then the flight worked, they proved it. It was great, big success and so and then it was very embarrassing. So that's my point is that they struggled with capacity, but it appears that they are overcoming those challenges and making inroads with the carriers. Question is who's next, right, Can they get Delta, Can they get American, Can they get Southwest? Can they expand that it appears the momentum feels like it's in their favor.

Couldn't get it to work, and so SpaceX's quick solution was to shut down Internet connection to the city of Chicago below to all their customers. Then the flight worked, they proved it. It was great, big success and so and then it was very embarrassing. So that's my point is that they struggled with capacity, but it appears that they are overcoming those challenges and making inroads with the carriers. Question is who's next, right, Can they get Delta, Can they get American, Can they get Southwest? Can they expand that it appears the momentum feels like it's in their favor.

All right, good stuff, Eric, We really really appreciate you having you on, saying to you as always Max and Dana.

All right, good stuff, Eric, We really really appreciate you having you on, saying to you as always Max and Dana.

Thanks so much.

Thanks so much.

Eric, Thank you, guys, appreciate it great to be here.

Eric, Thank you, guys, appreciate it great to be here.

This episode was produced by Stacey Wong. Naomi Shaven and Rayhan Harmans are our senior editor. The idea for this very show also came from Rayhon Blake Maples, Handel's engineering, and David Purcell fact checks. Our supervising producer is Magnus Henrikson. The elon Ing theme is written and performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiira. Brendan Francis Newnham is our executive producer and Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. A big thanks, as always to our supporter Joel Weber. I'm David Papadopoulos. If you have a minute, rate and review our show, it'll help other listeners find us. See you next week.

This episode was produced by Stacey Wong. Naomi Shaven and Rayhan Harmans are our senior editor. The idea for this very show also came from Rayhon Blake Maples, Handel's engineering, and David Purcell fact checks. Our supervising producer is Magnus Henrikson. The elon Ing theme is written and performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiira. Brendan Francis Newnham is our executive producer and Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. A big thanks, as always to our supporter Joel Weber. I'm David Papadopoulos. If you have a minute, rate and review our show, it'll help other listeners find us. See you next week.