Episode 278 w/ Grandmaster Caz

Published Sep 10, 2021, 8:00 AM

N.O.R.E. & DJ EFN are the Drink Champs. In this episode we chop it up with the super legend Grandmaster Caz!

Casanova Fly aka Grandmaster Caz shares his origin story, the early fashion styles of hip-hop and how his then unpublished lyrics were plagiarized for the hit song “Rapper’s Delight”. 

Caz also shares stories of The Cold Crush Brothers, DJ Kool Herc and the elements of Hip-Hop and how they intertwine with everything.

Comedian Russell Peters also joins the conversation as Grandmaster Caz shares incredible stories from Hip-Hop’s early age, don’t sleep!

Make some noise for the legendary Grandmaster Caz!!!💐💐💐🏆🏆🏆

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Welcome to Drink Champs, the production of The Black Effect and I Heart Radio and his drinks as motherfucking Podcast Mazon. He's a legendary queen's rapper. He's agree, it's your boy in o R. He's a Miami hip hop pioneer up his dj e FN. Together they drink it up with some of the biggest players in the most professional, unprofessional podcast and yet number one source for drunk fast drinks motherfucking is New year' z. That's time for Drink Champs. Drink up mother Mother. Would it could be? Hopefully? Would it should be? This is your point in a what up is d j e F and his drinks mother amazing? And I'm gonna tell you like this. When me and this man said the right and we started this show, we said, there's other outlets for the new artists. There's other ways this radio, there's other ways for the new artists. We wanted to show love and respect to people that came before us, some people that came on the side of us, and some people that came behind us. But today's episode Liz super super super special. We've had legends, but we we this is this is uh a new word that I've made up yesterday. It's a more legend. He's like an immortal legend that from the first hip hop record that was a commercially released bit off of him, they stole his boss. This man has been around relentless. He's been there when hip hop has what was there and he had control over he had a pulse in the game. It wasn't just like he was around just just just being there. No, he had his own. This man is a legend. He's still here. He deserves his flowers, he deserves some kanyak, and we're gonna have fun if you're gonna get into his business. This is what I like to call a super legend. In case you don't understand or don't know what the fun is going on right now, we have Grandmaster motherfucker cast now now me doing my research right to tell you the truth. I've been doing this with almost six years. Year we're going on our six years. I'm not trying to gas you up. This was the funniest research I've ever done because everything that I researched from you and led me to something else and then let me just and this is the reason why I like I would if I ever got a chance to like speak to you on the artist, I would tell them it's good to look go pay the way, it's good to go look at that. You know. So what you yo? Your history is so rich, it's so like. But one of the one of the illest things that I did not know was Sugar Hills rapping. What is it raping? He out right sold your lyrics? Yeah, pretty much, he said his name in So can you describe for the for the people who was not listening the first hip hop not not especially the first hip hop record, but the first hip hop records was released commercially, the first commercial commercial Yeah, the first commercial hip hop Okay, so, so what what happens? Because when this record comes out, which I did not know, the community, Hey this record, yeah pretty much like the early hip hop community. You know what I mean that, like who is this? Like who these because I was back then would come to the Bronx or come downtown pretty pretty much all knew each other exactly exactly. And for somebody to come out of nowhere with three people like nobody knows, like who the fund is they? You know what I'm saying that, I mean, we wasn't out in New Jersey. But then no cats was out there doing things out there in Jersey. Apparently they were, but I attitude here was like who the fund is? That kind of kind of put together, like yo, can your wrapped come here? Come over here, Hey, you you too come in here, come with me, that type of thing. But I mean, how you got the lyrics in the first place? Hank was, he was down with me. He was managing my group, which was called the Mighty Force back then, and he uh, he had to get a job in New Jersey to pay back the loan he took out to to like refurbish our sound system when he started managing us. He took out a loan from his parents for like two stacks, which was bread back then, and we got bigger speakers, better amplifiers, all that so we could go out and bust nigga's ask when we go out to play um. And in order to pay back alone, he got your job in a piece of shop in Jersey where Sylvia Robinson happened to be looking for people you know, and somebody seeing him in the pizza shop with a boom box record for people that don't know sugar records. Sylvia Robson, head of Sugar Records. Um, he used to take a boom box to work with him anything and be playing my tapes in the boom box, my practice tapes or tapes I record for my parties. So he's in there flipping dough and ship, you know what I mean, making pieces and just rhyming along with the tape. People coming in and out of the joint, like figure, Hey, the Skuy is a rapper. Hey Sky a rapper. When Sylvia started looking for people, you know, somebody let her that way and he came out. You know, it was like, yo, could you come out? We want you to and instead of this nigga like well now I don't rap, but I manage Casting Ova Fly. He just took your ship. That was that was what he was supposed to do because I don't rap. Now I don't wrap, but I managed Casting Ova Fly. He was the manager. But he didn't. He just got in the car repeated all the stuff that was on the tape. They loved it, and it was like you in and so they put him down with you. But the other two was rappers. G and Mike was part of like a DJ group, you know what I mean. Sound on sound Um Sound on Side Studio on sound Sound on sound out in Jersey, you know what I mean. So, yeah, they were I'm not gonna say Bronx caliber seeds, but they was rappers, you know what I'm saying. And then the podcast and they acknowledged what had happened. They said, you all are cool now. Oh yeah, we're cool now. I mean we were cool as far as that. No, I mean we as cool as we could beat They can't. They can't. You give me no back money. I mean it ain't on up. So I mean we're cool. They didn't even know what they was making money. No, they didn't know that Hank was hugged. They was amazed at this nigger. He was like, this motherfucker is the truth. He's saying, Ship that none of us, you know what I mean. And if you look at we're listening to rappers the light because like hip to the Hippy, and Hank is like, I'm not that's me, nigger. I'm saying. He said his name in that's the craziest ship. Like when you hear that, what are you thinking? I'm thinking, when do you hear that's the first one last verse? He was the last Verson. He was, he was the second, the second come on Hank singing that song. Check it out. I'm the C A S and the O B A and the rest. That's name his name in the bus, the name back in the day when you like, like I think love Bugg was one of the first people I heard spell out their name. And when Cats first start rapping, love Buck Starsky rest in peace. Okay, when and when Cats first started rapping, they were just using whatever cadence was out whatever, you know what I mean. So actually people are saying I'm the l O V E B, not realizing nigger. You saying that you somebody else let me included. And I was mortified when I found out I was saying that I'm somebody else's name. So from then on, I mean, I fact checked my ship before I say anything. I'm Nigga, I'm me, I'm not him, I'm not this, I'm not that. So that's when I came up with I'm the C A S, N O V A and the rest of fl y. I spell out my name Nigga. So for there cannot be another rhyme like that. There is no other casting over flies. So let me ask you something well, you more mad at the record the records perceived to be whack, or were you mad that this guy is actually biting my liberals? Or was it evenly? I wasn't mad that the record was perceived to be whacked, because it wasn't perceived to be whacked. The ship was a hit. It was a hit. Now when he gave it to me, I had to like the first copies. When he first got him and brought him to my house, it was like, yo, check it out. And I put Ship on the turntable. I let him play. I'm like, yeah, I oh, ship all right? After a while, like falling asleep. That ship was like twenty minutes long. Yeah, I mean, and the flying shipped on it and and and hey the ship. I was saying, you know what I mean? So I wait to hear my rhymes and to be like all right. But nobody thought it was The hip hop community thought it was whacked. Us us niggas, who I think everybody is whacked, but us, you know what I mean, type of ship we didn't have. We wasn't open minded like we are the day everybody was whacked to us. So you know, these niggas was way off the chark. So when the song came out, the song was trashed to us, but we knew at large this ship was the fucking hit. And this is what set the stage for wrapping hip hop music and mainstream America. I mean, was I was I bit about it? You fucking right, I'm supposed to be in the sugar Hill game. Not that I wanted to be in the sugar Hill okay, but but had had had that went the way it was supposed to be, I mean, my life would have been different. You don't know what the funk would have been. I'll tell you what. The sugar game would have been a whole lot fucking dope. Because because back then, I thought it was interesting to see that you guys really wasn't recording music. Guys were just making music live facts. So so like, how did that transition from from that? It was after rappers late, Well, well, we was recording. We were recording our parties. So that was the first recordings of hip hop, those tapes, those cassette tapes. That's the way hip hop started to spread, first locally, you know, domestically, and then overseas because Cats was going in the army, Casts was going in the service some stuff and taking their music with them, taking them because that's take. So they'll be in Germany, they'll be in call unquer whenever they stationed that And that's what exposed that music to other people, like what's that you're listening to? Yo? This is hip hop from back home? This and this and that. So that was one of the first vehicles that helped to spread. And then when the rap music came out, that the records came out, that changed the whole motherfucking you know, the paradigm of what it was. It was like, now you gotta do this to be successful. I think we were the last group that that performed. Yeah, the Cold Crush Brothers was the last hip hop group from the first group that that could survive without a record, without a hit record, because once that record thing came into play, you had to have it to change everything, what I mean. So we we had we had a little longer run than most without a hit record. Now, back in the day, that was dressing weird. Yeah, flame that ship on the furious. They always want to say everybody copied our status and everybody, yeah, we did so because I'm looking I'm looking something like I said, I'm doing my research. And that was a part of the time in hip hop where everyone always says that, like, yo, the original hip hop is dressed like rock stars. And now like since Little Wayne kind of like took on that rock star pasana, I kind of see it coming back. But it's a it's a different pasana. It's you know what I mean, Well, it's a different era. You know, So what a rock star looked like back then, it's different for what a rock star looks like today. And it was really punk rock, right what what? What? What? What kind of mixed the thing was how it started For the Furious Five, I want to speak for nobody, but with me and my relationship with Malie Matt we talked all the time and pretty much the whole group. Yeah, I know the history. And so they once they saw making records with sugar Hill, they went on the road with groups like Cameo and the Barcade and you know what I mean, they were at so they started they started emulating the look of stars, you know what I mean, Rick James, and you know what I mean, we we want to separate ourselves from the way the audience looks. And I'm believing that wholeheartedly. You know what I mean. You go to the show, I don't want to see a nigga looked like me. So they they kind of initiated that as far as hip hop's can serve. When they came off the road, they had niggas making leather outfits with furs and and tassels hanging off them and all kind of ship and it was like us, we had an excuse for it. We had the record punk rock rap, so we were trying to merge the two energies. The Hi keep kicking on. We need I need to drink something we got to do. Say, let's get it, Let's get it. They take a shot a man, I got my Japanese minky baby. Listen, and we're gonna set it off. Were donna set it off right, all right? Graham As a cast, we don't know if you know. Our show is about giving the legends they flowers when they alive. We started that. We didn't make up the slogan, but we started to spread that slogan. And let me just tell you something in case you don't know, you are appreciated. You are legend. I went and search your history. I damn their chairs came out of my eyes when I was walking, because I was like, damn, I thought I knew everything about you, and then I just kept going and I didn't know the rappers the like ship. I definitely that's that's I didn't know that ship I did. That's the only thing that I do. Everything up. So we're gonna we're gonna motherfucker's salute you while your motherfucking here. Let's where you at, cam. Yeah, this is the first time. We actually was a second time, Scarfie is the first time. But look this is actually flowers, real flowers, and this is for you. That's right, that's where you got. Damn it, that's what that's what's from other North. We again, we all full ours got that damn je man, it's a hard open up. Come on, come on, pizza, get your ass here, come on, come on, let me smoking too. Goddamn, let's go and talk about Let's go baby. Yeah told him about that. So, um, what are you talking about? Okay, the no, I'm gonna switch it up a little bit because I barely want to know your opinion on this. Did you watch versus the other not? Yes? I did. Yes, I'm so glad that she broke that up. Okay. That was the first verses I've ever watched. Okay, Okay, I don't know what you want to say. What did you think of it? Listen this nigga Jada kiss put hands and see he showed you what a real m C. Yeah it's supposed to do. He did with a real m C. Any nigger who considered himself a real m C. That's what he was supposed to do. And that's what he did. And j DJ, the DJ, yes, he you know he if he wasn't on point, that would have sucked it up. But I mean, Jada just demanded that ship. And with all that angst going back and forth, all that get you could anybody could have lost their poise out there. Jada kept his poise throughout that ship. Okay. And and they paled in comparison as far as entertainers and m c s. Take a shot you Okay. Now we're gonna keep going with that because I want to cousin. You know, I got to ask, how did you feel when you heard them whining off the vocals? So take your shoppers. I'll do a pop up okay with these cats. Um it's called bugs and bars. You know, we got vendors, we said we and we have like a rap contest. The first thing I tell all these young niggas, what's that noise like a rabbit? The first thing I tell these niggas, don't run over your motherfucking music. Every last one of them that come up do the same thing over put their vocal track on and wrap over it. That's the most unprofessional ship that you can do, even when you ain't a professional. So when you are a professional, you know better than that ship, especially if you got hit songs. Motherfucker ain't like nobody know your music and you gotta throw the vocals on the kind of you know you got hits already. You gotta be able to rock your ship. And that was the main point that that killed him because like me, me um, I've been the game twenty four years now, right, But I do have records where I've never collected the instrumental. I only got two I got sometimes and I don't have the instrumental to that, and I don't have the instruments until I'm leaving. But so when I perform them, the beat play, but when it comes from my vocals, I put the vocals all the way down, so everyone knows that I'm rhumbling above this ship, and they noticed I'm you either put the vocals down or you bring your vocals up. You know what I mean. If you're rhyming over your track, you rhyme over you. You understand what I'm saying that because everybody got a joints where they ain't got no instrumental to ye. It happens to me all the time. But that's how I learned how to emote and you know, go over my ship exactly like two niggers and you know what I mean. So, yeah, that was important. That was important, and that was a dope point that he made. And that was a big, you know, a big reason for the l I mean, if you would have just played each other's records and nobody got on to perform, it would have been a little closer because but the performance part of it is what took him over the top because it was funny because it reminded me of you guys. Uh again, what was the first five you guys? And it reminded me of what you said. You said you thought you lost that night, but you went back and listened to the tape and he said corner to the tapes, it was it was different. It wasn't me that thought we lost. It was it was, you know, we we lost to the crowd. You know, in the crowd they said who one day they cheered for them, they cheered for but they cheered louder for the for the Fantastic five, you know mostly I mean, you know, females and but but because it was the visual it was the excitement of the moment. They was the last ones on and all that. But when you went home and took that tape home and you just listen without all the visuals, without all that, just listen, you was like, wait, funk out here, nigga bus staying and I'm thinking that they don't sound better than there, you know what I mean. So that was on us get our visuals up. So and they had Eyeline on too and three and for them is light skinned. They say, we didn't have a chance, we didn't have a shot. We're talking all right, let's go whatever the hell you want. But that's a super dug like the two got them and got them. So so back then this record comes out rappers a light right, Everybody saying, is that now what what people are saying, because at first it was important to have your tape circulate in throughout the city and things like that. So it does that shift that everyone wants to be on records now, yeah, okay, it was. It was a shift that made people okay, oh we can make records, we can put and think that was something that was possible. Exactly. Nobody was thinking that way. The closer we got to it, Me and my my first DJ partner, disco with all Right on the first suspend, next in in hip hop and most of the first hispanics in hip hop was down with me trying to whip a whip, Charlie Chase, Joe Conzo, I'm gonna focus Fox with my morties. That so um, just just that association, you know, just I mean, just differentiated you know, me from because because I imagine I'm sorry to cut you off, because I imagine at first, especially were rappers are light and especially even my day like at first used to be whacked to be on the radio. At first, It's like yo, like you was still want to be commercial, underground, that was us, But I've dumb masked. We didn't want to make a record. We don't want to we didn't want to go to a label when rappers the light came out, Uh, it was labeled. The labels that was out was Enjoy, Enjoy, Bobby Robinson, but he rested peace? Whose son is Ronnie d from the Disco four? May he rest in peace? Okay? Well, Bobby had the whole roster of early hip hop artists. He had a Furious five, the Treacherous three, the Fielders four, talking in the all Stars, I mean, and and all the and the band that he had had. All the music sounded tight. We didn't want to do We didn't want to go run the Enjoy because they had signed all these other people before them. So it's like we ain't gonna go get on the back of nobody line. We all of things out in the street and Russell was not involved. No, Russell not involved at this time. Russell's like like on the f with Curtis blow right, you know what I mean? And when when run was Curtis blows d j Um damn, I lost my thought. Um um, we we're talking. You're saying you didn't want to sign. Some didn't want to we didn't want to sign to the label. We was like, yeah, that's Porty records. I mean, we were playing in Harlem world, were playing the Bridgeport, playing and this and this and that. But a little by little, you know what, the the recorium or whatever you wanna call it changed for you being hot. You could be hot in the street, but if you don't have no record. We was headlining when New Edition came out. Well Vonnie, Bobby Wicky and Mike Yeah, yeah, they opened up for us. Run DMC opened up for us. So for us, for us that was more important because we didn't see that the future was just gonna be records. And then after you got hit records, then you do the performance. There's not a lot of people who don't make records out here doing shows and ship that's viable coming second. So but in hindsight, you know what I mean, we could have gotten the back of anybody's bandwagon or whatever and made our way to the front of it, you know. But because we went another route, our commercial success didn't uh compare with our ground level success, right and our show, which was the best show in hip hop at the time, didn't translate to vinyl. We weren't able to translate that energy that we brought to the stage and that, you know to Vinyl. So what was the second hit, because I think it was Rapper said, like, then it was another record and then it was the Message, right, it was pre it was two records before rapping the Light. The intros pretty much was uh Um King Tim the three Okay Okay, and then Jocko Rhythm Talk by Jocko. The fifties radio DJ had a joint with the Fat back Man and then after rapping, said like was that after Robbins of Life, Oh, a sequence came out with funk up Um. They started, uh, they started to sign everybody, the Crash Crew, the Treacherous three, Busy Be was over there at one time, you know, so everything for a while with Sugar Hills, Sugar Hills, sugar Hill, they had it unlocked it before Death Jam. Sugar Hill was we're talking from seventy nine to like eighty two, eighty three, eight four, Yeah, into the early eighties, you know what I mean, until like eighty four when when Death Jam started and Run d M seeing them just that was like from run DMC on, it was just different from there they was. They was the dividing line between our era and the next era, not recently. We just saw that daylast Soul. God bless them brothers. They finally got their masters back. How do you feel about that? Is that a struggle that you go through? Yeah? Yeah, my group went through, but we don't got as many masters, say what I'm saying, But yeah, we had to struggle with the record company and ship like that because they were you know, like doing license and deals with our music and stuff like that, with us not knowing shit about it and all kind of will ship. And like I said, we don't got the biggest and the longest catalog, but I don't give a funk if it's one thing. If it's three dollars, that's my three dollars. You understand what I'm saying. And I wanted so um yeah, yeah, we went through the lawyer thing and did what we had to do, you know, to get our ship to return to us. That now we are in control. We don't own it out right yet, but we own. You can't do nothing with it without space type ship. Um. We did a joint for Apple not too long ago for the iPhone and eleven and they used our saw him. Yeah, I mean and boom. You got to break Boom. So that was a good look back they would have got all that money, they got all that money, no better not. I'm not really understanding how you couldn't get a piece of rappers delight? What was the business model that doesn't allow you to do that? When he's clearly saying your name in the verse. The business model is the crook model. That's that, that's the model. But what I'm saying, like, how can someone not say that these niggas don't don't, don't know no better Robert model meaning them all you then, Okay, that whole record industry, I mean, that's part of the record business, especially back then. Yeah, you know what I mean that because none of us knew nothing, No, none of us knew ship. Were just happy to be on the record. And that ship goes back to all the way back to you know what I mean, the artists from back in the day. Okay, we're just happy to do what we do and be on the record and get famous from it. We don't learn later on, you know how fun over we we've been, you know, until you know, it's sets in, sets in on all of us. At some point when you think about I heard that back then, that Sam Cook was the only black man who owns his master, and then all of a sudden, no one can tell you how he died. Fact like no one can should they say about Prince? Yeah yeah yeah yeah. As soon as you start talking that independent from the system ship. Yeah, you're talking and anything in anything, you're gonna do another shop. I'm doing the show that should drink, do a shot to do a shot out? Yeah yeah yeah. You want you want you don't want to whiskey? Do you don't? You don't want to mix it up, don't want miss it up. Let me know if he wants to a little ice ship yeah yeah yeah, yah, yeah yeah yeah yeah. I'm putting in this carp now, that's that Japanese whiskey right there, all right. If he wants some ice in there, that takes Mike, I don't want to touch it myself. Thank you, brother, Yo, motherfucking grand master Cat. I'm mad. I'm mad, happy, bro, I'm like a kid in the candy machine right now. It is right there, soottle my brother. So that's a question I asked everybody who comes here. But you can actually really really answer this question. Did you ever think hip hop and make it this fun? No, but I always hope that it would oc could you had the potential? Yeah, I'm stopping you for a second because why why because it was it just like a basement party type of thing when it first invented. Or I'm curious to say, I'm here. You you you, you gotta understand. When we first started doing hip hop, people looking at us like, what the fund is wrong with you? Like what the fun is? Imagine you know from the from the dancing, you know what I mean, from the break dancing especially, Yeah, mean the funk y'all rolling around on the floor for sucking up your clothes. That was the attitude. And then if you and you can't go you can't be in a party and ask a girl and dann yo, who's up short? Do you want dance? And then bring it out to the dance floors and start spinning on the fucking floor. All right. It's just like me. So if we was on our own with the ship for a while before it got cooler. Other people, my parents are friends, y'all ain't gonna never get nowhere doing that hivity. How they ship ain't even take the name of this ship serious? Everything? This ship alright, motherfucker drug dealers. Oh you're gonna working with them hip hop niggas. Tell a biture, Oh yo, you're with them hip hop niggas over there. Hur So it wasn't. It wasn't a positive thing for a while. It's the fucking biggest genre of music and the fucking had I know, I would be a real thick head if I sit here and tell you, yeah, I knew it would be this big, and I ain't got this much percenter this ship. If I knew I had an eight in this ship, I would this ship would have to go through me, or at least me and my peers. I mean me, cool, hurt, you know what I mean, Flash, you know what I mean. Mel You I mean like a counsel, you know what I mean, and have a union of this ship that we would have had a hole on hip hop. Whereas that can't be a hip hop chicken store in Baltimore. Hip hop motherfucking fried chicken, my nigger. I got the box in my house, So I mean, what other entity you know that anybody can just take it and just run with it and do what the funk they want with talk hip hop. I can't do that ship with nothing else. So because there was no there was no organized you know union, No nobody sat down, set no rules by laws or whatever. Nobody, uh like trademark this ship. There's no ownership of hip hop. So now it could be a hip hop any fucking thing, you know what I mean, And that's that's nasty. But wasn't zo Nation trying to do some stuff like that? Nation has always trying to organize hip hop. I mean first, you know, through the family, you know, first making it an organization, you know, based on the principles of peace, unity, love and having fun, you know what I mean. As far as a business model, you know, that was based around Bambada and his you know, musical endeavors and stuff like that and other things they got into. But they did what what what they did early on on was unite us under one umbrella call hip hop. Hip Hop didn't have a name when we started. We just started out, let's do the hip hop thing. Nah. The name hip hop came from a cadence in Marching. M hmm, yeah, I don't. Grandmaster Flash was playing at a party all right, and one a cowboy, Keith Cowboy, one of his the mcs may he rest in peace. What's going into the army next day? So he's working with him on the Mikey like, yeah, so it's I forgot to do name somebody, No, but I forgot his name. He was like, yeah someone so this and that. Yeah, you're having a good time. Now you party and now with the mar Yeah, it's gonna be getting up at the crack of dawn like here here here, you know that Caden's when they walk. That's where hip hop came from. All right, now it's crazy. And then that that that cadence became repeated so much it became like the signature thing ahead until hip hop the words hip hop form and then love buck Star Sky was the one who really kind of took it over the top with the head to hop, the head the hop to hop, the hop him and been hip hip hip hop was the most repeated phrase throughout our conversation. So hip hop became the name of our culture. Got there makes a noise, moving around a little bit, were bouncing around something that I didn't know, Um, DJ Hollywood, right, I didn't know DJ Hollywood was consider disco because why didn't you know that? Because what was the song that he had at one point, tang Wu tang, I don't want to know my honey bun and Henty's over that. You young, youll befit, no doubt, I know that that one. Hip hop, Well, Hollywood precedes hip hop, you know what I mean, And and Hollywood just kind of in a difficult place. But you know, between hip hop and what happened before hip hop, you know what I mean, he was a direct influence on what came next. The next generation of DJ's you know what I mean, got whatever they got from DJ Hollywood because like t paying Future, all of them, people who use melodic music gotta kind of give it to Hollywood. Well, I mean, yeah, he was that you know, crowd rocker, that calling response King. He had a report with the audience. He was funny and he was like that. But m c s as we know mcs today, you know what I mean, you thought a beat on and these niggers getting in that didn't come until our generation. And there was a time if he went to a club that Hollywood was playing in, you couldn't get in with sneakers. First of all, he had to dress up. If they caught your ass breakdancing, and that they broke your security. But I found that out. That's it hurt me. Yeah. Yeah, So that's part of the mystique why people say Hollywood is not, you know, it's hip hop. He because he precedes hip hop, but he definitely influenced hip hop. I can see that. I can see that. So, um, what's your favorite part of hip hop? Isn't making it the record? Performing the record? Um Records is not really my my forte so to speak. I haven't had. I just haven't had that constant studio environment that you know a lot of artists have, uh for like Park for example, when Pot came home, Park lived in the studio for two weeks or months or whatever, you know what I mean. He went from studio to studio to studio, and you know what I mean. And in order to become that prolific, you have to be a demand like that. Uh LLL cool J eleven albums? Who the fuck makes eleven albums? Who gets to make eleven albums? And hip hop? Maybe now because independently you can make a hunted But who gets signed to a label to eleven fucking album deal successful albums to exactly most of them? So I'm gonna keep it on it. But but I mean, but that's the thing. So the opportunities that you have, you know, have a lot to do with how productive you are. You know what I mean. Today you can make a record in your house. I mean it sounds just as good as you know. I ain't say all of them because you could, you could, because like, yeah, that's just sound like about your I'm my engineer. You need let me bragging about me at your own But so this is famous jay Z line, right, he said, I'm over charging niggas for what they did to the cold cork. Where are you at when you hear this? And as you say, yeah, what are you saying? What you're talking about? Well, I'm gonna tell you what happens, you know, is you know came out. Listen listen that. So now my phone started ringing off the hood. Yo, Yo, you heard jay Z said, yeah, yeah, yeah, I heard it. I heard, yo, jay Z hood like like like all day, one of them type. So like somebody I was sitting and somebody asked me, yo, what you think about that? Jay Z? You know, I said, I think you know, he's robbing from the rich in the name of the poor. Love that now, Robin hood robbed from the rich and gave it to the poor. He arrived from the rich in the name of the poor, Like I'm a tax all you motherfucker's out there extra okay for what? You didn't give these niggers right here? H but he didn't give these niggs right? It wasn't right? So what what? What are my mothers think of it? I think it was a statement. What I mean it was. You know, Jay's a clever motherfucker. Yeah if a rhyme when he when he comes to it, it's like okay, all right, yeah, I'm gonna throw that there. But I mean we didn't get a call from Jay. You know, no non bank accounts went up and none of that ship. So it was just you know, another clever jay Z line. No, but honestly what he was saying. But my point is this, let me ask you what's there? Were you going through something with the lady at that time? Or I would I would first of all, I would like to talk to Jay and be like, what did they do to the code crush? Right? What you know that you don't know? I know they did something. I know they get something, you know, and I know that they did something so I'm like, you know what I mean. So, I mean, there's a lot of industry secrets and ship like that that went on back in the days. Niggas got black Ball for the for the sof you could have been sucking one of these niggas joints, you know what I mean, And for that reason, you don't get signed to a record label or some ship like that. So people of people wherever you go. So there's a lot of reasons for people being where they are and people not being where they are, right and you do you believe in that like black ball and ship in the industry? Hell yeah, you know. I mean, man, listen, I'm gonna be honest. It might not be as organized as you think. It's not as organized it is. It's a thing where people tell people look at it. It me me, in my opinion, there's something that exists. But in this certain ship that's just common sense. It's like, just give an example, a little oozy verse says fun Grandmaster cats right, and then wants to do drink Champs that week, and we say, no, we were cats. People might take that as that's being black ball, but that's just standing with my homie. But that is being black ball too. No, No, everybody stopped working with you. But it's the beginning that if you can't get signed to a record deal no more. If you ain't getting shows niggas, ain't your whole ship stop, that's getting black Yeah. I mean if you you might get black ball from normally show, but it ain't gonna stop your whole motherfucking machine, like the even though this is a that's a bad thing to get black ball from, drink might like. For instance, me and OS had a little dispute back in the days, right, I didn't think he was black balling me. I don't think he's sent out the message black ball. But at the same token, a lot of people did not want to stand next to me. You beat people with eyes. I think that's a form of black I don't think I think I think it is. I think don't. And people want to do business with you, and then they stopped working with a person because they want to do business with you and they don't want to run for those feathers. To me, that's black black balling as well. You know what black balling is. Black balling is when an executive telling motherfucker other executives listen, this nigger here right here or whatever, such the such that's and that who don't work with him? Mind just as a favor of me, don't work with right, that's official blacks. That's black. Now, maybe do you go to get shut in your motherfucking face and you don't understand why you're honest that something nigger you picked some nigga off some nigga influence of man. Yeah, understand that that I Honestand and you don't that exists. No, I believe that exists, but not to the level like I said, like to the level of that like that we think, like we just think like you make a disrecord towards somebody and then you're just you're just black ball. It's not everybody doesn't happened magically because everyone's really not that powerful. Like the further you get, the further you get, like you've been realizing that some of these dudes Frank's they just act like that, you know, saying, somebod these dudes straight bozos. You're like, this is who I looked up to, Like you know what I'm saying. Like the and the further you get kind of you make your own rules, you know what I'm saying, you can get to a point where, like I swear to guard, don't, I'm not. I'm not bringing this up. I watched Dave Chappelle three days in the row go on stage and say the most craziest ship about transgender, about homosexual people, about just whatever the funk he wanted to talk about. He talked about having a fight with a bitch that was a transgender and he said, no, I didn't want to stop because I was winning. What I'm saying is David's at the level where he doesn't you can't cancel him. Yeah, Yeah, I at that level life, nigger. I could ship on your on your on your on your on your car, ship him and where this was saying. I was looking like they're gonna cancel. But then I thought about it. I said, this guy got forty minutes and cancel. Like, so that's what I'm saying, Like certain people make it to a certain and he's he just one of them. Like he talked about ship like I felt like I was in the eighties joking concert you know what I mean? Remember back and didn't no one knew the proper words to say, No one knew not to say this don't say this like he was just just just going crazy. So I said to say that I'm I'm doing another shot. You got damn doing another shot. So cast Run DMC comes out I did not notice as the drug dealer attire outfit because because but then you guys, you guys got I pad first come out right friend ship, you know what I mean? So y'all looking at mother not what happened was Russell pattern Run DMC sound behind people like my group Cold Crush Brothers, d m C and Run will tell you theirself. They you know what I mean, they strive to be you know, like the Cold Crush Brothers. And but Jay was the street dude. Jay was the one who messed out, you know what I mean. He had the look of this, so so they adopted his look. If you look at them in early days, they had Sue Jackison and Mark Nexs all right, and so Jay kind of set up there. Look yeah, so Jake kind of crafted their their their look. And then from then on, you know, the didas thing. They just went through the roof with that. That must have been the first time hip hop had a right yeah. Yeah, like the course like we was we was working with their products. This is the first time. But they wasn't working with us, right, nobody was then. We wasn't getting no free sneakers nowhere. That we had to go to you man on Southern Boulevard and I'll be like, come on, man, I need those in thirteen. I need to I need to go on the back. On the back. You're taking a shot. Stottle got damn Stlettlettle. Let's start a little bit about Wallstall. How was that while style for me was like a stamp of approval that yeah, we wasn't wrong. This ship is real. It is important people, do you know want to funk with this? Um? When this guy when Charlie Ahearn came to our neighborhood and start scouting around and shipped to see what was the Bronx. This is you know, a guy from Soho you know what I mean, down in the Lower east Side, you know, artsy kind of dude. This is the business boogie down Bronx at this time. This is where every house is on fire. All those all those visuals that you see in the Bronze during that time, that's during the time that we felt mildstar early eighties. So um, but but that was kind of like a stamp, you know, for us, that a stamp of validation in a sense that the outside world thinks this ship is cool too, not just us. They want to document this ship. Somebody wants to make a movie about this ship. Oh yeah, so that was the first of right, well, yeah, there was a documentary about hip hop, but about mainly graffiti and breakdancing. That was the name of Style Wars. But this was like a movie with this was a movie. This was more of a document movie documentary. Now watching it looks it feels like a reality show documentary because it was like following you guys doing what you really do. Well, it's it's all the people that was really doing it, the actors except for the people, the non hip hop people in the movie. Everybody, every graffiti artists, every breakdance to, every DJ, every MC was actually themselves in a movie. Wow, you watched to go O Style today? You said, right, I got I got the VHS right here, I'm having vs. Let me see the goddamn vah see the motherfucking VHS. Buddy, goddamn, this is this is legendary right here. This is the original one that Wow, that's the original right there, man, Jesus, Fat five Freddie always had white girls. Every time you bring up fat five Freddie, it's a white girl around here. Freddie part of that artsy community. Yeah, Freddy facts I wrote. I wrote one of his first rhymes, get out of here, man, Jesus, I'm taking this ship out of here. I'm shop here. Yeah. So yeah, wild Style really really kind of validated the whole movement. And the first time we went on tour, first time we all got on a plane together and it was like twenty five of us went to Japan. Oh yeah, yeah, a lot of motherfucking episodes, a lot of you know, a lot of fun. I mean the first time we was in front of that kind of press, it was like everywhere we went, it was a cameras following us, you know what I mean. I'm doing for like overseas love us more, much more, much more. I think it's because they got a greater appreciation our art form because they're not connected to it, you know what I mean. It doesn't come from them, and they're like outsiders looking in. So when they when we come there, it's like, ah, those are the people in history. I'll give you a perfect example when we went to Japan Okinawa. You know, we went to Tokyo and UH department store called that sponsive tour, So we went to UH. We were just hitting different places. We were doing outdoor venues. They would build like a stage in like an hour and it's like a big stage of sound system and we would go on and break dance and wrap and DJ and then they take the whole ship down before we left, like the whole ship being gone. That's how efficient they were back back then. And we would when they showed the movie in the theater, we would come out on the on the stage out of the movie and the whole yeah, the whole the whole movie. Theater just went bananas. So we was like the Talk of Tokyo and we introduced hip hop to Japan personally, just from that movie and that tour. We went to clubs. DJ still had the big thick rubber matt on the motherfucker turntable and we would get on church and be like, could we you know, because you can't cut that. You gotta h these niggs looking in amazement like what the fund is y'all doing. But by the time we left Japan, but we revisited those clubs. They was doing that too. Little kids was breakdancing in the street because they saw crazy legs and them do exhibition in the streets. So we actually were the first impression on Tokyo for hip hop. That movie While Style and that tour that took us out there. Wow, that's amazing. You think While Style, like before While Style, how much do you think the culture really felt that it was all these elements were the culture. Because there's people who argue like these elements were put together to be hip hop. I think I think they were. They were gathered together because of their their um, their continuity. But between each other, a lot of DJs and graffiti writers or b boys or m c s or such and such and so into you know, those those elements are interwoven within the hip hop. And they say that graffiti is not an element of hip hop because graffiti has been going on since the beginning of time. Okay, yes, we do understand that. But like I said over and over again my quote, hip hop didn't invent anything. Hip hop reinvented everything. Okay, there's nothing new under the sun. We didn't do nothing new. People people play music before us. People dance before us, people talk and rap before us just like we do. Did it way before we did. Okay, but this is our generations reinvention of those elements, and that is what hip hop is. I gotta ask, how did you come up with the name grand mastercast because like you can, everybody can't call youself a Grandmaster. No, I mean you can, you can try, you know, But the origin of Grandmaster, as far as hip hop is concerned, the first hip hop the first DJ named Grandmaster was Grandmaster Flowers and Grandmaster Flowers inspired Grandmaster Flash. Um Flash was taught by Pete d J Jones, who was also a legendary DJ and hip hop Flowers. Um Flash adopted Flowers Uh Monica, Grandmaster Flash. How I became Grandmaster? My original name in hip hop was casting over dj m C casting over Fly. Now one night I'm playing in my spot the Blue Lagoon and the Bronx website Avenue Honey for me and my man just go with and I got some um. By the way, everyone had the dopest names back in the day. This is sm SR Brand Wizard. Everybody they now baby, big Baby, regular Baby. So so I'm cutting up a record now back then Flash was the fastest DJ you know, known throughout hip. That's when everybody and their grandmother was in the DJ. Alright, hippopemunity is small, grand Master Flash, fastest man on two turntables. Right. So one night I'm cutting up a record I think it was I can't stop and I'm cutting it back and forth because that do could do that Dom Cay that food, that man, that man, man, man man. I just kept catching it. My man was like, Yo, faster, faster, faster, faster. The crowd was going faster, faster, faster than started going grand master, grand Master. The crowd start going grand master, grand master. That's when I became grand master. Oh my god, that was mad. I'm saying, go on, I'm gonna tell you something. Then moved us out to you. You must have made the easiest Netflix money ever. What do you mean I watched listen. I don't know if you ever saw a State Property too. Anybody who knows me, when they watched State Property Too, they say, Nori, you cheated. And then I'll say, why did I cheat? Because I didn't act at all. I was just I was just When I watched the Indian Detective, I said this this guy. I know it's true. It's got a real chuckle and its fucking phenomenal. I just told it. I watched the whole season. I said, this guy's just being him. You just check out here. You gotta do it. You gotta see your Indian fall. That's very cliche. He goes to your Indian ball and he's sick. They don't want to tell you he's sick. He was, he was fai. It was crazy. I loved it. Come on to make so much in the Detective, it's it sounds very racial, but it's not ironically because he's actually an Indian detective. Well I'm it's calling a detective because I I'm an actual detective in Toronto and then I end up becoming a detective in India and India. That's why it's not like I'm walking to go I am. It's not that at all too. That's the holy how do you how do you know? How do you know? Cast? Cast? Some cast I met from Mel Meli. Mel and I have been friends for about six seventeen years. Then then he brought cast. He goes, hey man and he was like, yo, Russ, I'm gonna bring up we're gonna go out and yeah, bring casts with me. I like, fuck, yeah, you crazy? How yeah? I just made him say it's for no reason. How's your throat? Fel my prison dog? So you met him, met him through mal and then we you know, we had dinner. We all had a great time. And then it just it stayed from there, goddamnit. And now you know Cas, Cas and I have very close and you know, I know, I said, know his whole family, but he got too many kids to know the whole family. But he's working on it, working well. It's not like he got some kids in Japan. You don't know. He might he might have somebody. You see a space and he described Japan. I said you have to look at look, he said, snake on the I gotta relax, Russell. Would you like we gotta get talking about some Yeah, talk about you as we talk about Japan. That's a great transition. Has some Japanese motherfucker. It's like the shot form. We wanted to drinks that I would like to start with a beverage. Okay, I don't know what that means. With a rock or two. This man the cup? Please yeah, thank you, so please. Congratulations smoke chance. Please smoke it up. That's you, guys. Smoke it up. Smoke up, smoke it up. God damn you know what I'm saying, Grandmaster cast Yeah, I need about forty of these. Yeah, we got you. Man, throw a couple of rocks. Ice. And yet I don't give a ship. I don't. I don't like to touch another man. I appreciate you for you a goddamnit. Yes, please don't read this for you. I know you would appreciate. Yes, I don't appreciate. This is my thumb for me. Queen's only only. I'm not matching everything. I'm put it on. Wait now, so on right now. During during the plandemic, I got very I got very creative, and I started coming up with different things that you know, I'm sorry that goes with the thing, you know what I mean, you know, I get down. But one of the things with the clothing, you know company, and I started making up T shirt designs and stuff like that that was relevant to our era that people don't really do. And uh, I partnered with this guy and he started, you know, we started collaborating. So those are just part of the hat collection and we made that especially for you because we gotta we gotta join that. That says Bronx keeps creating it and you know how to ship nor me. Let's let's let's talk about that because when I when I'm doing my research, it almost seemed like, I don't want to say cool Hurt create hip hop. It seems like Cool Herd had these parties that was famous that people started to go to where he was playing these music. But then there was you guys who came after that, and you guys had your own parties. Is that somewhat accurate? Let get the later ahead. When Cool Hirk was DJ and he was kind of the big guy, was it? Was it like August nineteen, which is the anniversary of hip hop is coming up in a few days. Okay, so he was doing the brand you hit the anniversary of hip hop and hip hop months now supposedly in the government. August month supposed to be the first hip hop party ever, right, the first documented hip hop hip Now, let me ask you where you did? I was, Okay, I will never claim to be a lot of people doing that. Yeah, didn't like the fucking room was wasn't as big as space. Okay, it ain't it's not as big. It fit about sixties seventy people if they if they danced real close together, you know what I mean. And it was more of a family thing, like everybody knew everybody that was there. Twenty five cents for girls, fifty cents for guys to get in, all right. This is back when the exactly pillows. But the thing is not that Her convented hip hop, her conspired hip hop for the people that eventually became the hip hop like Hercan inspired me, hercuspired flash, Hercus fired belly, mel Pam Potta, you know what I mean. Every you know what I mean. There was only one rival like DJ to hurt back then. His name was Smokey, and people don't talk about Smokey a lot smoking of her and the smoke of trons, all right, and they used to battle her in the po. Smokey could funk with him because he had the records and he had the sound system of trying to tell you it was another DJ Ja Mario, Okay, from from Brons there. Disco King Mario was a force over there, you know what I mean. So these guys in their prospective areas held it down. But if you had to put them all together. They couldn't sunk with Hurt Sound System, right, right, So let me let me ask you, right, because me being from Queens, is this only happening in the Bronx at this time? Well, here's the thing went downtown at some point, Yeah, at some point. But but I want to be the first to say that I am the last motherfucker to try to say that hip hop was only going on in the Bronx. Okay, but if this kind of energy exists within us as a people and there's nothing that we're doing that somebody ain't over there doing at the same motherfucking time. Okay. So you I know that there was DJ's in Brooklyn, Okay, I know that there was djson Queens. I know there was DJs in Manhattan. So she wasn't wrong when he thought that hip hop. No, Shan didn't start him to say hip hop started for Shad. Hip hop started out in the park, and you can't dispute that for nobody. You know, for Russell, hip hop started somewhere you know different. He's done his research to know beyond that, but he can only tune in from a certain perspective, especially back then, whether you can't really communicate the way we can use from Canada to golds. He'sive, but so okay um now, but I want to go back to the question. Who was the first one that was cutting the brakes, bringing the brakes back to create that that breakbeat, that long breakbeat for the B Boys and be Girls Dance too. Hurt played him first, Yeah, and then the other DJs like Flash and Theodore and break Out perfected how to play them because her could player record and then when the break of off, lifting needle up and put it back to where it started, or just mixing a whole another record that sounds totally different. Hert wasn't cool, didn't have those smooth blends. He didn't have the you know, turntable um mechanics that DJs that followed him did. So now, uh, Grandmaster Flash looks at the playlist that HERK is playing and saying, Okay, I'm gonna get all those records, but I'm gonna play him and do it and do this to him, you know, I mean, Graham was the Theatore says, oh, ship, Flash, you're gonna leave your equipment in my brother house. Unguarded. He gets up on the turn table and advanced scratching. Okay, so everybody kind of added to this thing that eventually became the culture itself. But our uh, the person we looked looked up to was cool, hurt and even later on he could be an asshole, okay, but he is the father of hip hop as far as everybody that you respect in hip hop is concerned. Okay, So you can create another narrative and you can take us somewhere else, because like I said, nothing, nothing happens in no place want you know, by itself. But when they started to document hip hop, why did they come to the Bronx when they started to want to want to know about this and start to If you look at the history, it is always Why does it always lead back to us? Let's let's leave me to my next question. Right, there's a couple of books that said that actually started in the Harbor. Is there any true to that? I think it's simultaneously. There was a movement going on in Harlem as well, but Hallam was influenced by Hollywood. Hall DJ har Harder. I don't want to go man, my honey, bun hear me something of that young lays He's always want to um. But but but the personality of the Bronx is, you know, we come from burnt down buildings and you know, and ship like that. And Harlem's mentality is hustle, you know, the drug dealers, the you know, the hustle lifestyle to get money, you know, I mean, the cars and all that. So Harlom's attitude to the Bronx is like the niggas broke up there. And I heard Hollywood say that himself. You know, ship niggas in the Bronx was broke because it wasn't doing you know what I mean, because we we we had a different mentality. We were we was the creative mentality, you know what I mean, and the hustle mentality was the dope dealers and the drug dealers. So we created hip hop so we didn't have to be drug dealers and donte dealers. So now all the drug dealers are dope dealers. Is it hip hop? Yeah? I mean, but yeah, originally hip hop was made out of those people that you know, we didn't want to we don't want to do that. We're gonna do this. And when everybody was saying you sunk that ship, sunk that ship, we was a fun y'all, we're gonna do it anyway. Let me ask you, in these neighborhoods and these parties it was coming out, was it only locals or what's their people? What? What's that? Because we're not looked at a couple of the BEFORETI I'm looking at They're saying these early hip hop parties and I'm seeing white people. There is these white people that lived in the hood. I don't know how early Okay, most early early blacks and Porto Rico that's it. I mean, makings Caribbeans whatever alternatives and you know, maybe a couple of tallis slam but yeah, but yeah, but basically, you know, that's what it was. And but it wasn't until like not to say it became cool, but when it started reaching out past our neighborhoods, you know, white people started getting involved as well. There's a couple of white, early white dudes in hip hop shot the d j R rap or you know what I mean, So that the influence is just great. So um. And then also I'm watching uh evolution of hip hop and I think it's Grandmaster Flash who says, you know what, he's gonna start taking it downtown. Was that considered whack for y'all to go downtown or was that like, you know what, we're gonna gonna gonna follow the bag basically bambada. And when we say in downtown, we're not saying hallo, no, no, we're talking about downtown, Downtown, the Rocky and and those punk rock clubs. The Rocky was Downtown, the rock syn was on Hunter eighteen eight, and the punk rock clings to that first first started entertaining hip hop as a culture. First the dances really opened them up, and then the dancing need DJ so the scratching of the DJs. See that the punk rock era and the hip hop era started rising up at the same time, and both and both of them, both of them was the rebellion counterculture right to the music that preceded it. So prior to hip hop, it was disco. So you know, hip hop is like disco, we're gonna do this. Punk rock is like funk rock, We're gonna do this. So those same energies was was kind of coming together at the same time. So that's what opened up the door for hip hop to come down into those clubs, into those early punk rock clubs and then promoters uh grasp on on to the B Boys. The B Boys were captured everybody's imagination as far as drawing them in to hip hop music to dance. Then the DJs became a main stake, you know what I mean. So the rap element was really the last element to really chick in as far as people really digging his whole ship as a as a whole and downtown, the B Boys led the way. So what do you think about when, Okay, all this music is going now, is this group called the Beastie Boys who are deliberately saying they're not from the hood. That's the result of what he's talking about. Yeah, pretty much. Pretty the beast he started as a punk band. Yeah they are. That's where they come from. And and and I'm gonna be honest, I mean to be honest, please Earlier we all, I mean, from the time these the next generation came out, we understood that our our error was over. And the more people came out, the worst. You know, it's got I'm not the worst, but the father away it got from from what we were from the source exactly. So the Beastie Boys, for me and for some of us, was kind of the defining moment like okay, this ship is gone. It's gone. And so at first you like, all right, that's cool. Or he was like many wilding, there was like college dorm wrap, I mean, but who became like okay, you could do anything. There's no there's no norm, there's no you know, we weren't. We weren't Kumbaya on this ship. Man. Everybody look at you know him hub like, oh those guys were and the ship was cut thoat man, everybody, for everybody, anybody, for thisself. If I'm done with Russ and y'all, y'all done with each other, we don't funk with y'all. We funk with each other. You might funk with him, but we don't funk with you, you know what I mean as a whole. And and that's that's how it was, you know. And it wasn't until later on. You know, now we're all in the same boat. Motherfucker. We Oh school girl, ain't you ain't on tour nig right here? So could we kind of bonded, you know, you know this ship we had in common that our ship then fucking sale. So anybody who kind of reached beyond that, that that next era. Uh let's like Grand Master Flash and the Furious Five for example. Um kind of went beyond that first school of hip hop and into the next. You know that because because they had commercial success as far as records and you know what I mean, but they did I mean the next crew. Like I said, when the Best Buds came in, it was like a more of a signal like this is getting further away from us, you know what I mean, because when when we don't have no control, one DMC has success, but you still identify with one DMC. This was how they dressed before you got to the club. BC Boys was something that was was different. Well, I think BC Boys was a novelty, you know, like to offset in the run DMC. Anytime there's a black group that has success in business, they created a white counterpart group to rival as success or to surpass it, and which the BC Boys did surpass the success commercial success a run DMC. But if you own both entities, then it's a no lose situation for you. Well, running was technically on depth jam no no, no, no, I know that it's all Russian, you know what I mean? You know? So, uh so for us, it was like you know, there it is. And then as as everybody started coming in, it was like a fucking parade, you know what I mean, And the LLL came and then oh it's a rap now, it's a rap now. But it started, I mean, for me, at some point it started getting cool. It was like, you know what, this is the next eggers, man, these are the niggas. And I would see things in me and I know you might not know, but you got that ship from me. I can see me and you you know. And that's what kept me attached to this ship. Everybody that come out, it's part of me, right, no it or not. Everybody traced back to me. Talk that to him. Another shot for that. So and then we're gonna do something called quick time, my slim. But I want to ask you a quick because as I did the research, like I said, it boiled down to more of not really cool her on records, but cool her on parties, like throwing these jams that people were coming to. Then I started to realize that it was like you African Bambada Grandmaster Flash, but this is these parties. These tapes were circulating of these you guys actually party. Is that accurate? For what I'm saying, like, there was one mix tape that started circling around, uh in the I think in the early eighties of the late seventies. That's the one that everybody credits has for. That's like, that's when if you hear DMC do an interview. He always been like, yeah, that's every single time. I was like, I had that tape and it changed money. I didn't I didn't get what you were doing. Its changed on my mind. Salute to DMC. Then he just sent me d So. So what I'm saying is, um, it was these tapes to tape that circle circling around. Was it battle tapes or was it party tapes? It was party tapes and battle tapes. Yeah, you know at first, Um, I mean, I'll go back to when if you live in my hood and you wanted a B boy tape like the jams that you're here at the parties, but you ain't got kind of my house, Sit on, sit on the couch, what's your name? What's your girl name? Where you live at school? You go to who's your man's in them? All right? Boom, all right, turn around, get on the mic, turn my ship on and then played great beasts and just talk about the nigger dropped the tape. All that. Now, I wasn't until we started doing parties and and and recording the entire party. Those are the motherfucker's tapes and started spreading. It became kind of a like the holy Grail of hip hop. If you want to trace the sound, if you want to hear live hip hop at its earliest point, you gotta have one of those cassette tapes. It goes back to those cassettes. It's got sampled all throughout. So now people yeah, oh yeah, yeah people? Is it frivolously? And like I said, if we would have had a control of that ship, people couldn't just people would get paid for that, you know what I mean. But I've heard numerous samples from most school chaps. I think I'm on one for uh back, oh yeah yeah, and what are you sample? It's me talking at a party. We need to we granted needs to check yeah yeah back get the check back. Yeah. So so yeah, I mean those those that was how people first heard hip hop live. Let so let me ask you, right, um, this controversy thing came out. We had care rests one on here and when we asked care rests one about this. It this was like three days old, you know, care Rest he'd be on boats. He didn't know what was going on when we asked him this question. But it was a controversiy thing that came out about African bat bottom right, just stripped the thing off the thing. This is one of our forefathers of hip hop. But it wasn't only just one thing. It wasn't only just one person. There was a couple of people that came out and with these allegations. What what did what did you think of that? Um? I thought it was crazy. I mean, like everybody else, I know, at some point people, you know, it was going around that the hip hop community knew about this, and the hip hop community didn't know about this. Nobody had no evidence, No, um, I don't want to cameras. Everything was pretty much speculation because you Bam. You never see Bam with you know, females that much, you know what I mean, or a lot of young guys used to be around Bam, like you know, like he had a little legion of young cats around him from from Zulu. But other than that, nobody, you know what I mean, nobody knows so for for somebody to say that everybody knew it was a well known fact. Now it was no ship like that. I was just a show actor, surprise as every fucking body else, you know what I mean. So we're gonna do this, this called quick time with slip. It's so very You just answer one or the other, both of you, guys. And if you say if you say both, you take a shot. If you say nothing, neither, you take a shot. But if you you answer, then your shot shot. All right? Cool? See you want to you want to get your shots lined up? We're joining were joining br my Japanese whiske. Let me get the jope. Yeah, you see, every glad that's the man. The man is right here, keeping with the shot. Knock out the whiskey because I don't know whiskey guy. The last time I was on, I don't just shot. Yeah, get him a shot last? Please? Anybody got the shot last? Well? I think we used them all. We need someone? All right, cool, we're ready asking me both. You have to wait, okay, mr no oh, you need a shot classes okay, no for And by the way, go watch the Indian Detective, y'all. It's really good. Yeah, yeah, please, yeah, smoke that please. Yeah. We got grandmas a cast Holy moly, berry, let me get the lane, got you man, somebody else give us a lighting. Man were over held wet sponsor. Tell Noriya, we're gonna bust on these. You can be a cup. I gonna put you up right now. Baby, you gotta keep the coach alive. I've got damn it, you know what I mean. We also got black old dude, say it's over here too. We got some rock to old black wana. Ma wanna what is that? Dominican? Is a dominican't well knows what it is? This one has wrong? My mama? Ain't that the ship dren three? Yeah? Woman Earth, you could do vood with this. Yeah, yeah, you know it's crazy. Then the other day I got a little fucking bottle of mama wanna myers appeared at your house. I don't know a little a little left it did. Yeah, I thought somebody. I thought some ship was gone wrong with the bottle I had that the fucking bark was growing them. Oh yeah, that's why I'm good. Shot Glass just take that right. Yeah, but poor shot though, motherfucker. Alright, alright, cool, are you ready? This one? Is gonna be very I know what, I know what you're gonna say. I don't know what you're gonna say. Okay, jay Z ornas jay Z because the overcar charging niggas, But what they did to the goddamnit jay Z, that's a tough question for me. It is, yeah, because again Jay has a longevity, but to me has the better voice. So you're taking a shot for that, I guess I'm taking a shot. Take a shot for that complicated they wish DMX or Tupac. We're right, DMX, see him looking over you, right, you'll see him looking over you. Yeah, all right, so actually but yeah, okay, cool, So that's no shot. Okay, eightlies hip hop or nineties hip hop. If I had to pick, if I had to pick one over the other and I wasn't from either era, nineties hip got me on that one. Did not think nineties Golden era? All right, run them see out the locks? Locks? Wow, he said that quickly, too funny style that I love the locks, but I gotta ride with run DMC on this. You got the hat the locks. I mean as far as like lyrical or whatever whatever your criteria. Alright, podcasts or radio podcast, podcast, since I have one culturally canceled. Alright out now subscribe a radio, have a podcast, have a podcast. Rock Him a big daddy came, m hm, he's tough. You do get take a shot. If you don't want to answer, it's okay. Well if you say both. You know that I like how you stuck by the way. I love that. I love that. Maybe you know you thinking let me help, let me help with the criteria. Live is one thing, and on records another thing. We did do another shot. Let's tick to the program with the fact that you're thinking about it that much. Let's take a shot, brog He came, Yeah, I gotta go cane as well. And as you're saying the live aspect, I'm speaking based on live as I've seen rock Him in a couple of times, and I love rock Him alright. Rock Him is a fucking game changer. You know what he did. He slowed everything the funk down when everybody was screaming and ship, yeah, the microphones in cool ship. You know, he made his slamet the puzzle. Comp can't be mad at him. But I'm I'm a lyricist and and proud to say that one of the people that rock him looks up to as a mentor as far as lyrically, you know what I mean in being MC And same thing for Kane, you know what I mean that he's to him, im his father as far as you know in this game. Yeah, my, but I got a different eye when it comes to you know, and I don't know, I don't say judging, but as far as my opinion on on artists, I got a different eye than most people. Yeah. I mean if he was a master fucking lyricist okay and show person and co creator of hip hop, then you could have the same vision you know what I mean? And am not? Yeah, pretty well, so you went with I want we came because I mean as if you put two niggas on the mic once it gives you each other. Kane, we want to see versus we want to live. Yeah, they would have to do it live and can got some ship that people even heard that well, just so let let's let's go to the next Kumo Dulgi Rap. I would have to give the edge to Coolgi Rap though I am the DJ for Kumo D you know what I mean, And Kumo dmon Kumod myself and Malie Malice considered the holy trinity of sucking m c's. You know what I mean, the first holy trinity at m c's. And but commercially, if you're broke, broken, it stopped. Nigger. Oh that's whipping whip. Okay, okay, goddamn it, it's going tell them to take a shot where we at. You're with y'all, say what's up? I'm on drink Champs. Yo, I'm on drink Champs. Y'all with Nori and ain'tbody cans with mute his phone. But he's sixty one years older. Maybe don't mind, you don't mind, he's Grandmaster Bells. You went with Cougi Yeah, yeah, Rick or Duggie Fresh flick again. I gotta go with the live, the live aspect, Dougie. If you're talking lyrically, are we talking lyrics? Whatever that is for you want to be it's really what you trying to do. These dresses is supposed to be tough. Nobody got a show like Douggie Fresh. Nobody Fresh. Yeah, but Douggie hosting a show it will sucking. Make your party go? Okay, fat fire Freddy or I love who's hosting your party? If you got one person to host your ship. I think I give that love of the edge. I give that love of the edge. I mean what era is what I'm talking about now seeing maybe the way too complicated to do Overthink who's got a better live show? I mean fab five, Freddie's more, he got more white bitches. We established that. Yeah, nobody's also Okay, he's also a little more friendly to the people. Loves not and love is cool with me. But I'm just saying, you see him be a dickhead. Nine seeing him be a dickhead. But you seen him signed the autograph. Not take a picture. Let's just go. I remember one time twenty five years ago, he wanted the limo to himself. It's all I'm saying. He kicked you out. No, he just wouldn't let nobody in. I mean he's making a pay for that love. And I love that lover asshole. Okay. MTV raps or rap City or rap City Yeah wow, MTV rat Yeah yeah, yeah, fact Okay, big yeah, Big big El. I'm I'm a diehard Biggie fan and I love big El. He's like right there with it. Okay, Red Alert Boosey, be alert. Read Uncle Red Okay, I don't know why they got this here, but Wild Style of B Street Brucy be my dude, though, that's my dude. He came up right under me. Man, But read if I was gonna hire somebody, and I could only hire one person, that'd be read alert Wild Style of B Street. You already it wasn't n B Street Wild Style all day. And while Style was the first and west authentic of all of all of those movies, the first time I saw a Wild Style thought was a documentary. That's what we're saying. And you know that version of Wild Sty that you have right there, it's the bootleg. It's not the boots like it's the but you know, but you know he was first. I'll tell you what's different on that one is when there's a scene of Grandmaster Flashes cutting up live on the original, he's cutting up Marty Grass and they couldn't clear it. They couldn't clear audio for something else, but you don't even know what it is. They put another another beat in there. That's how much of a nerd I am for this ship. Okay, And two that that's when the movie came out, But that's not when that is right, right right. One that came out for that was like a yellow copy was just it was mad cheap looking. I got it at kmart and eighty four. Okay, I'll be sure what he thought he was thinking was playing out. I mean you never know, man, I'll be sure it was dropping some ship. Just battle of the light skin niggers do get got it? I gotta give it that else good. Yeah, I mean listen, I remember my only compliment that ever got when I was like in the early nineties was a girl because I had I always wanted to be all, let's pick up that girl and the like, I ain't sure, I'll be late, I'll be damn orr Fesse, I mean, you know the shots like that. Just in case you know what I'm saying. You ain't got you ain't got to pick anything on jobs. I'll answered before you, just to make it easier for you. No, no, I don't need that. Lord. Finesse Okay, Finesse is my brother, Like we we lived together. So I mean, you know, sounds a little crazy. Not like that, okay. That digging in the crate, not digging in the crotches. He's no, that is my man. I mean, so hey, you look, even Whitey loves Let me just say it. We gotta get him on your show. So you're going off and I gotta go yeah, And I love Guru this one. I really want to dig to see what y'all gonna say on this one. DJ Premier more Large Professor, DJ, that was very easy, and I love I love Large Professor, but Large Pro was like in that next conversation, that's why the name is. That's why his name is Premier. He's Premier. He's like Large Pro was the next Marley m HM Forrell or Kanye creatively, who's that shot? My man? My handy blood kaved some a bitch. Come on, I'm want you whiskey. I don't want you. Come on whiskey. By the way, this is no what I'm gonna take a shot. Let's go hold on, wait for us. We gotta take my first shot on take your shot for my You're taking a shot, Thank you, thank you. Take a shot by any of the detective brother just go whatever I got ride yeah, okay, do your yeah right right, the drink two more drinks? Okay? Who is Swiss beat Swiss be? I gotta go with Swizzy, Although I love the newness that Tim brought to production, you know what I mean? His sound was like unique, just like Pharrell's was. But I'm more tuned into Swizzies. Okay. I look at Swiss, Pharrell, and Tim as the same era. They all three came with three different sounds, and you knew exactly who you were listening to each time. Damn. That was I was about to getting on you for your long breakdown. But that was actually great. But it wasn't an answer, and but it was not on a breakdown. And it's like all three of them, So which one you're going with? All Swiss? I'm gonna go with Swiss, Okay, Okay, I didn't expect that the next of the That's it's more of a New Yorker question because I know you were the Raptors nick fan. I'm a nick fan from one of them. When willis Read? When the when willis Read limped out on the motherfucking court, nigger, I was still in there, like this, who ship willis just coming out? All right? I was watching that ship. Kassie Russell used to live next door to me I when I was tapping, and then they used to come out go jump in the cab go to the garden and there I R Kassie, just save me, all right, man, little dude, And I mean sometimes a lot tell people I name myself cast because Cassie Russell. Right now, you have Cassie Russell right here. But Cassy Russell. It ain't no accident better, That's what I'm saying. Okay, So I didn't like this one, but I'm gonna asking it. Fat Boys are the Beastie Boys. Seriously, I would have to say, musically and everything, I would have to give it to the beast Boys, you know what I mean? Boys? I mean, come on, these things made classic album, the production behind their their music, the themes and all that. I think that that Boys was more of a novelty act that it caught on. It was like, okay, ship, let's sign them up and you know, put out a record. Um. I think the people's longevity kind of play out as far as what they originally were in this thing in the first place. Um to me, if you are this, if you claim to be this, then you always that if you are at a certain level or whatever this is, and that then that's your motherfucking level. Don't you ever come here later on and tell me, na, I can't do that no more. What the funk? If you was ever great, you're always gonna be great. You always want to be great. So if you're not great right now, motherfucker. He wasn't great for fun. He wasn't great in the first place. You just for saying that ship. How many people today I'm sixty one years old funk with me. How many people can funk with me on the mic right now at sixty one? And I'm not just talking about my age. I'm talking about period. That's not that's not me bragging. That's the fact that I loved this ship. I breathed this ship. I am This ship makes a noise for that God. Hello, you just feel fasting because like I, I gotta got you more questions. Okay, Latifa m c L. I would have to give it, damn, damn, damn all the way around. Whatever you want. I go like, I like the disagreeing now because at first I thought she was just agreeing with nine. I'm like, I'm like, like, okay, the one ice cube or Scarface, you can take a shot, you know what I mean? We got the shots ready, Yeah, I got ready? One right now was cute, I go cute. I'm friends with Brad Jordan's but I love y'all call him Brad. I ain't calling him Brad ever in my life. Listen, Victor, I don't like first and we're not calling l Todd. I'm not calling. I'm not never doing that. I do call him to all. Actually I don't call me and Curtis call him to Tudd. I'm taking got No, that's not a shot, that's a drink. Take a shot that yeah, yeah? Take who? Sorry Kim or Fox? Now we didn't answer that one yet. What we took a shot? Oh, he took a shot. Took the shot, Kim or Foxy Brown? That one was harsh on me. I gotta go with Fox Foxes, that's my girl. You know, I was at a thing for I was at a thing, a personal thing. And as far as I'm spitting bars Is concerned, I'm trying to get her. When she first pulled that ship off with Jay Nigga, Yeah yeah, I never see her. Nobody pull no ship off like that. Since so I gotta I gotta go with Kim because wife, he loves Kim like my wife is not being an interviewed right, No, no, but I'm saying that's all out here in the house is Kim. I'm gonna go with Kim, al right, cool, I respect that you gotta go home, all right. Uh, this is a good one, actually, n w old tag. I gotta go. Yeah, I gotta go outcast or MAFTI me, that's easy, creatively outcast mob deep all day. For me, it's the m O bib from you from your party. Come on, come on, I can't quote lyrics for ship. All right, all right, I got your stuff and this is this is this is this is the last one she heard of Official Queen's murder kick shots to ship with all those who want to profile, to pose rocky in your face, with you alone in the street, because itself of this land. We'll be gunning to keeping your cruise running. Really supposed to they come around, but they never come close to and you can see inside your face you wrong place, your whole body lay stuff but bullet holes and such. Listen the last one, that's a trans Yeah, I love it. Let's get it kicking pri or master flex h that's easy. It's easy. Yeah for me, I gotta go kick a pre kicking pree come from me. Yeah, that's my hood. That's my calling them pooch wow. Okay, we don't we don't call you're going you're going to three all day. But we're not fronting on Master Flex, are we. I'm fronting on from No. No, you're giving me a choice between motherfucker's with all cool because let me just tell you what you want to do. Can preach my brother, But I still don't see people with the same passion as Master Flex, like, um, like what I mean? What I mean? It was like a time where the music just shifted, right, it shifted to get into this new generation, and I really see master Flex study. The new generation just told him to transition. And to me, that's like, you know, there's a lot of DJs that they didn't when when it stopped being vinyl. They wouldn't go to see these when it stopped being ce these they like, there's a lot of people that don't. Yeah, you're definitely like this at the final he likes Kring Crates, I don't like Karen Crazs. He like all my records to the party. Yes, yes, So my my point of that is not let's read it. But what I'm saying is I've never seen someone's so focused like to to not only be a legend here, but then to learned the craft of the new way. And I've never seen nobody like that, don't you think because commercially that was his job. That's differently, if you want to survive on radio, if you want to stay where you are up on radio, you gotta know who's new. You gotta know what's going on. You gotta you chump me up and round up and just get with that next generation, because that's that's where you're gonna beat. That's where you hopefully you're gonna be and if you establish a relationship with him, you're always gonna be in again. You ain't old school, you ain't old head or whatever. That's like the fucking dreaded. You know what I mean, Monica about generate old head? I mean old head and old school is different. O G too as well. That's that's what I meant to say. That when they say o G, they just they'll be trying to say you just oh. Sometimes it's not Sometimes up man them coming big broke. I'm like, wait a minute, families, this but yeahn't one older than you? You big hey, big bro How does that happen, and you're more knowledgeable than that, apparently the new slang. Yeah, y'all don't like being called old g at all, big home. You don't like none of that. I'm a white beard. I don't take it. Listen, man, I've been I checked out your movie Coming Home. You're working on that? Yo? Which one? Which one? Did you see? Yeah? Yeah? We released it with Rock the Bells right now we're releasing yeah, because I've been thinking he's not coming home sometime. I don't like that. But this ship is fucking amazing, you know what I mean. Congratulations got there. That's the real ship, so we don't correct real. And speaking of Rock the Bells, I'm about to join the Rock the Bells family. Well already have DJM me and I got a Show the Bells Radio. Um, and I'm kind of you know, I'm kind of pumped about that. That platform, oh definitely, you know what I mean. L l is a is a visionary and uh, I think he once he saw the platform that he could create in the lane that nobody really is really addressing right now, which is, uh, you know the Pioneers, the legends, you know the game and stuff, and you know and I appreciate y'all like that. Like I said, it's like when you see artists of the magnitude of ecstasy from who comes to specific I mean, and uh, just more recently business, you know what I mean, Producer Chuck Thompson, you know, Fred the Gods Market and Prince Yeah, Markie Den, you know, the list goes on. It's like you definitely start to appreciate who's left, you know, if you got anything and you know in you and there's something that you ever decided to do before, which I think you know, you guys have had this in your mind and in your hearts for a long time before this ever happened. You know, you had it in your head that yo niggas. We need to get these niggas some kind of recognition anything. It's some kind of and and it's contagious. I mean, like you didn't create the Turn, but not you. It's like Michael didn't create the fucking Moonwalk, but you got everybody in the fucking world doing you know what I mean, same thing with Legs. He didn't start rock Steady Crew, but he's the face of it. Wow, that's what's well, you know for us, man, You know. Um, you know, like I said, we met each other. You know, he was mixtape DJ and a rep for for the label. So I used to come out here all the time and me and him, me just seeing like his pure hip hop ship, Like he don't he just want to spend on vinyl. And I've been trying to tell get Sarato or something. I don't even got Seratto man at STO, nobody used come on, they just because they sponsor, you don't mean to me when I got so I'd like to put I really like to tell the truth. Our show is about interviewing legends, right, and I'm gonna be honest with you. You're a Raal rail Rail first legend for real. You know what I'm saying, Like, I don't disrespect to anybody that's ever been on this show, but when you look at your history and like you said, you you are the co creator. You know what I'm saying, like, like, there's nothing that can take away from that. And I just want to tell you that to your face, how much we respect you, how much we love you, how much we funk with you, and how much we appreciate it because like I said, um, we've been doing this almost six years. This is the funnest research you've ever done, because, like I said, I every time I was looking at something, I was learning something. And this is the reason why I wanted to tell these new artists that you know, you know you these new artists were reference of Michael Jordan. They were like, like Jordan six like nigger, You wasn't even born in Jordan. Why you don't know about grand Master cast Why you don't know about grammars at Theodore, Why you don't know about you know whatever, whatever, whatever? And And it's like if you can do that with basketball, you don't get paid off a basketball. You're little Dirk. You get paid from m C and you get paid from So wouldn't it be dope to go learn your own fucking craft. One of the problem is the tree was there when they came. They didn't care where the roots were planted. They didn't want to know about the see, they just wanted to know about the new leads. But they wore the Michael Jordan's They wore it and then anything. They wanted to know why the sixes were sixes, And they want to know why the sevens were sevens and why are they so famous. Why can't do that with hip hop? Why you can't go back there and realize that there was people that came before you. You understand I'm saying, I'm I'm a I'm one of them. I need to know about everything. If I like something, I want to know from from the beginning to now. Yeah, I'm like that. I love I love doing research. Now. When we first started this, you do nothing. But now I'm like, this is like, actually good. I know the Google Now I didn't know the Google vote. It's knowledge, that's the input. That's input, you know what I mean? So let me ask you, do you do you feel appreciated? Uh? Yeah, yeah I do. I do from from the community of hip hop, I feel appreciated, right, Um, Friendships that I made because of hip hop and because of people's appreciation for for for me and in hip hop are the things that you know, you know, our value and those are the things that keep me involved and keep me going and not just as a participant as an artist himself, because right now, you know, I ain't running around still trying to get a record deal, and those ships like that, you know what I mean. I pick and choose what I want to do, and hopefully I built up a resume large enough. But you don't not to have to prove nothing to anybody. You just look it up like like you did, be like, Okay, that's that nigga, let's bring him on the show. Oh yeah, yeah yeah, but yeah, I definitely feel appreciated. I've made associate with people like this brother, and he's connected me and you know, with so many things and so many people because that's what he does. He's like a fucking networker who you know, no really really really one person go you go up with one person, go through, and on the other side, it's like this bunch like that like some ship over there here, like you got two when you come out here and you know everybody over there. And he lives with yes with him, Yeah, he's downstairs. I'm upstairs in the same room we look for Let's reduced on my first album, Yes and the warri Point she did. Now, I gotta ask you, do you remember a young Fat Joe? Yeah? Fat Joe grew up in the neighborhood that I grew up in. But you know, years later, okay, um, my first knowledge of Fat Joe. He had a crew called Full Eclipso okay. And one of the members of full Eclips was family too, one of my son's mother. So, I mean, this ship is crazy, man, any question you asked me, I can connect to myself somewhere. I'm not trying to do this ship. You do it perfect. You deserve your flowers. Be game to you too. Put on that case. Look at that case. That's real real flowers. That's real flower last five years and mynas goal just but but but that's how that's how I first found out about Fat Joe. You know what he told me, you know what I mean, this and that this and that my nephew is down with you know this guy Fat Joe and such and such, And I'm like, okay, And then you know the songs I would you know, start coming out of this and that other people care arrests, start talking about him. So of course you wrapped the bronx. I know about you. I'm somewhere near close for watching, you know what I mean. So I've been about three of Joe's videos. Probably didn't notice whatever, So let me let me ask you. And this is probably a generic question. This Curtis Blow named Curtis Blow because he was doing Curtis blow I mean it's that's a legit question though. I mean, that's there's a reason why Superhead is Superhead. Maybe she was a superhero. Bro that's not for me to say. I mean, it's the rule was. Come on, I even got round. I got you know, I funk with music when i'm DJ and and I like make references to like, yo, you know Curtis Blowy. But no, I mean no, I don't. I don't think that's why his name is Curtis blow And when you Curtis, Let's be clear. Back in the days, cold was considered like that was like, oh definitely was Liken the coach started, you know, becoming you know, available to like to hip hop. You've been a studio fifty four? Yeah? Yeah, how was it? I never thinkerpop? She was Wow, she was wild. She think upop something the studio? Futyore did I or what I did? You did? I know? What would you? I went up? Yo? What it's been good. I'm a tune of baby at you making the studio before I went up in a few people in the Lime like that. You know the Lime light is open right now. It's Jude Long Club. Get the fut it's the church, that's that restaurant is that's not like yo. Yeah, by the way, New York seen me the city in the world. We made a club of church exactly. How how do you knowing that? For twenty five years, no one thought like, yo, this is yo. That kind of y'all did not ignore it. Y'all knew what you're walking into a church. Ignore it. Act like I didn't know where I was at. He became you know, you have to walk past a lot of things that were like that. You don't do in that motherfucker there. Well do you think and this is a generic question, but at one point, in order to be an artist who had to perform in New York City, Latin quarters, the couple cabanas, all of this, Oh yeah, it was there was like a what do you call it? The chicken the chipling circuit. There was a chipling circuit in hip hop down South. No, but I'm making reference to that, but it was the same kind of mentality. It was like, all right, you gotta play here. Now, you gotta play You want to expose up here uptown, you gotta go play here, all right? You want them to know you down and over to such such you gotta play here and then you do that until the man picks up for you. Now, now people call you to where they want you want you to come back to over here, But I want you to go back to over here. Yeah, I mean, we was one of the first caster just start going outside of the city limits, you know what I mean. Bronx west Chester, Connecticut, Jersey. You know what I mean. We had parties in each town every time everybody who had a skating rink, we was in that motherfucker perform at Bridgeport, Connecticut, New Haven, Connecticut. They're very Connecticut. Or I mean, I got arrested in Chickapee, Massachusetts. There's fired for having spikes on, having spikes on you know, you know we used to wear that spice. You know your money though, because Lubaton took yall spikes ship and made a hip hop again. But then they put it on shoes, said you liked shoes. No, One of my favorite lines is one of yours. What Lubaton sneakers with the spikes for the wear those I don't wear tho? I think even knowing that, Yeah, yeah, but but damn wrestler, you just you just a rich sneaker would running around with s Gards. This is I had him, I had it brought in. You know what is that kind of s Gards? That's Romeo and Juliet Oh. I love Roman, Thank you, thank This is this is a Judio and Fulia. They wrote from the same people. I threw him in from Peru. He's a Peruvian wrestler and he wrote weed on the side. You know what I mean, I job, what a job? I got a job, like said the Peruvian prince, the king of Kaludes. Okay, I didn't catch that line back in the days. Now it makes sense there you go, now what I mean. So yo, guys, because this is this is really truly an honor man when I really look like I did, like I said, I did the research and I'm seeing that and I'm seeing these parties like hip hop got to see m I actually don't know how to articulate this, but what I'm saying is, but what you gotta what kind of cigars? That? Yeah, it's from Puerto Rico, the country makes Yeah, this looks nice. Okay, Okay, I spoke to I love the spoken that man wanted them that looked like the christwn little so hip hop. I actually, did you ever think of hip hop? Make it this fall? And you said no, I didn't. I didn't like I said. If I would, I would have invested in it. You know, the people who couldn't do what we did did what we couldn't do. That I'm gonna say it one one time. The people who couldn't do what we did did what we couldn't do. And Russell Simmons can't rap, can't break dance, that's a great transitor. Can't dj, you know what I mean. He can't do graffitia, So what was your first But he did go to college and he did get a degree, and he did he understands the business of business, business and so he took that and uh, the rest is history. So it was your first impression, like when you see in Russell coming around, Because there were other than um. When we spoke about earlier, the sugar Hill Gang, I think you said her name was Sylvia, Sylvia Robbins, Sylvia Robinson. Other than that, there wasn't a lot of black executives. I was imagine that sugar Hill Gang was probably the first ones. Well, I mean, oh yeah, because they were independent labels Okay, you gotta understand, um, major labels would not funk with hip hop, and earlier days they didn't believe in it. They didn't think it would last. They thought it was just a fad or a trend or whatever, and they didn't want to invest in it. Curtis Blow was the first hip hop artist to a sign to a major label. Had Christmas Wrap Christmas Trap and didn't come out before the break later on. So let me ask y'all. Let me ask y'all that you definitely particularly wasn't that kind of commercial to make a rap about Christmas. You've got them right. But guess what, all right, guess what every year after Thanksgiving that record plays from that day on motherfucker all the way to Christmas New Year, over and over and over. So you tell me we love you. Curtis Blow got damn smart, you know what I mean? That was smart And that was one of the advantages that having a major label behind ain't you. You got a team, You got people who know the music business behind you. They're gonna hire the people that you need. They're gonna hire a fucking band, they're gonna hire producers, they're gonna hire if you need this. They're gonna bring that in. They're gonna all that. So you got all that. How the fun can you miss? As opposed to somebody who's doing something independently, even though they're doing better work independent artists are doing. I mean, come on, Bobby, the ship that the Enjoy Records that they did Pumpkin and All Stars, their bandage they did on is fucking incredible, and at some point that ship is gonna be I mean it's it's legendary, it's legendary. Sugar Hill Band, the sugar Hill ban that they did for sugar Hill Records, yeah, not sugar Gang, the band that played with the Gang that stole by record. And then do Booty, Yeah, do Booty who wrote the message? Not not that duke Booty, not a dooky booty, but you just hit me with two balls. First of all, you name it a dude named duke Booty, that's one. But then he's there, he wrote the message. Don't push me. I'm close to them, Try and not to lose mind right there. Wait wait wait, wait, wait wait, you're going too far right now, I'm hearing good not trying to cameraman, just got happy to singing reggae. Holy Moly, mo, I don't know where you're going with this, kid. Booty, by the way, we just gotta say Pauls every time. That's rest in peace. Duke Booty Okay was a member of sugar Hill Band and he wrote um the message and Sylvia Robinson wanted the sugar Hill Gang to do it, but they didn't want to do it. She was too slow. A matter of fact, nobody wanted to do it, and so Duke Booty did it, and they put Mellie melt on it to do the rhyme that he did broken Glass, So he wrote Melly's no book Glass everywhere that ain't do Booty wrote that the whole song did mel right anything, don't push me. Duke Booty wrote that the music for a Grand Master Ustion figs five. His name was ed Fletcher May he rested. That's Duke Booty and know that what Mellie. I'm sorry, I'm gonna say. Davy d did the music for I Fire Ruled the World, all right. That's a whole nother sorry different Dective. So yeah, it was. It was his idea and his song, and Sylvia wanted to Sugar Gang to do it. They don't want to do it. Want the Furious Five do it. They didn't want to do it, so she got Mel to do it. We do booty. So Meller is reciting do booties. You know, broken glass everywhere people pissing up. Mel wrote the last verse in the message child is born with no state of mind, blind to the way. He's a man God that smell And that was taken from super rapping from this song with the Furious Five on Enjoy Records. Damn, that record was two sides, so super rapping part one. It was like twenty minutes each side, just NonStop rapping, was super rapping. It was super rapping. So I mean you didn't know that, right, yeah? Yeah? So And like I said, rest in peace to d Fletcher and his family, you know what I mean. He just passed away recently. So what's that Like the thing back then is to have somebody else because that's like never that was what you're saying. That's partly the record ship. Thank you, thank you, thank you. If you gotta understand that, prior to the record industry being involved in hip hop, there was certain ethics and ship, you know what I mean, there was like a code you know written or unwritten, you know what I mean, you don't bite people ship, you know what I mean, You got ridiculed for that ship. There was nothing written down that said that. But nigger, you don't do ship like that. That's how it was so for somebody to say somebody else ship and then I mean in a big forum and and and you know what I mean, like benefit from that actually was unheard of. You get ridiculed for that type ship. But the record industry don't have no fucking rules, they don't have no morals. And that was considered the first reality rap pretty much pretty much. Ye, the message is considered the first one that dealt with you know, urban issues and the consitions that existed, you know, in our neighborhoods and ship like that. It was I mean it fucking Grammy Hall of Fame, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, you know what I mean, from that record alone, these guys, you know, not just that but and the rest of the thing they've done, you know, but that being the pinnacle that that message. But and y'all were cool back there because like it was like a little drama between the crews. We wasn't cool, No, it wasn't cool. It wasn't cool. You gotta understand, you gotta understand um when Melling mellan them, and and when the Furious Five, I keep saying, that's my brother. But when the Furious Five got signed sugar Hill, they left the streets. Prior to that, we was all in the streets. We was all by info. Who's the best in the Bronx, So who's the best in the New York or who you know what I mean? Doing these different you know, And once they got signed, they left and then once they saw going on a tour, there was nobody left. So we would like scrambling to to fill that vote. Well, were the next niggers after them? That's gonna take the throne? Or whoever's the best in New York I mean. So that was the Fantastic Five and us the Funky Four had got signed the sugar Hill as well, so it was off with the Furious Five Jersey label at the time, it was a Jersey label, but it was the factory that they were recording all this Now and we're still doing jam in all the world ship like that. Well we're doing shows and getting paid, but we're still doing a lot of performances. We're not signed on tour. This is amazing, this is then you've got Treacherous three. Yeah. I love how you change the subject. What's what I'm just saying to keep it moving. I'm saying, you got and then got signed who they get signed to? They got shign to sugar Hill because most of the most of the acts that were first signed to. It's crazy. It's like a migration from whatever group you and now to the next group that's gonna take you the way you want to go, even from history. Yeah, it was group popping my first MCS. You know, when they left me, they went to d J Charlie Chase. And when they left Charlie chasing them, they went to the Fantastic or they went to keV Kevin them and they became the Fantastic Five. Yeah. I mean, and it's the same with this ship right here. It's like you know, you you know, group happen to get to where the fun you're trying to go. And Sequence was on sugar Hill, and Sequence had Angie Stone in the group. Really, Andie Stone was part of Sequence. You ain't know that and Stone and Stone, Angie Stone and Baby Mama and he's seventy nine. I'm going funk you right on the Little fun She says in Everything Record, Wow, Stone, I would have never thought. Okay, and she smashed the Angelo. Let's be clear. Definitely got a baby, Definitely got a But yes, you have to be something. That's what Stone on drink ch we do we do and Angelo not to get before d' angelo. Andre Stone married to a little rod they see from the Funky four plus one see it Rodney Stone. Okay, that's a lot of people. Hey, listen, you ain't got me up here for no fucking reason. No ship, and I ain't saying ship people don't already know. But like God, why don't mean Google? We got the real got this Google right, grand Master Google. Let me ask Google master cast. Let me ask you right. If you could put the five everyone always asked the top five dead are alive? I'm not going to ask you that. What is if you could put the top five fathers and hip hop fathers, like how the FBI got you know, FBI w Dobie wanted. They'll put They'll with Gotti head and help with I'll copy down and signillary and all that. If you could do yours the top five hop fathers and godfathers. I would like to hear it in order. You don't have to be in order. It has to be if you're putting in that way, that's not the man. You're saying godfather and father. There's got to be in some kind of order, Okay, But you can't have the godfather before the father before the all. It all, it all, it all starts with Core. Write for me and for everybody, that's where I come from. I'm on the west side of the Bronx. I lived up on the next block from Core Centwick Avenue, fail in Place. Okay. So when I was young and impressionable and the block would clear out and go down to fucking block all, you know, the whole block of clear out, I'll be like, what the funk is going on? But I'm you know, I'm thirteen fifteen. You we're going to cool Hirk party. We're going to cool Hirk party. So I wasn't able to go to cool work party. But you know what I mean, I'm like, this must be some ship. And then when he started playing outside, I got the opportunity to see him, and from that time, you know, I aspired to be a DJ like Cool Hurt, you know what I mean, and everybody else once they caught the bug that we call hip hop. Now, um, we're mainly inspired by by Cool Hurt, you know what I mean. Everybody else popped up afterwards and popped up, you know, as a result of or or c N or being inspired by and like, yo, I want to do that. So you know the Blackout seventy seven, that's when you got your equipment. You know, I have my equipment already, but I got before. You know what I'm saying, because it's just a focused So we got Cool Hirk. He your father, the father. He is the father, or the grandfather, to be even more correct, the fall. Let's give him the fall. He's the father. Yeah, now, as you go on, grandfather, but but originally father. You got this is I ain't talking about the world of hip hop to rad maaster cast what was your name? Casting? Noble fly A S and the O V A and the rest is fl I still think we deserve royalties off that. Yeah, listen, we're gonna ship. We need to figure that out. I like Leland Robinson, somebody she's gonna hear about back Page that's set up with a backpage, is that, Paige? No, back page? Yeah, page, don't even he's talking about reparations. Yeahpation. He's talking about back page. That's the point of ship. That's a point on ship. He said, No, I didn't saying that. He said back page. He went to back you want to go in right? All right? So number one I need to hear two, three, four? Who stems from her? Then? No, no, no, I want to according to you, I don't give an it's politically correct. I think what you your perspective Africa, Vambada too right after her or one of like there were a couple of people, but they didn't like last long enough in the landscape, you know what I mean? Yeah, to make the kind of impact maybe to me because I knew, but not to enough people, like enough people know the DJ that I would talk about, you know what I mean? Um, so I would have to say Flash, Um was the next. So if there's like an amount of rushmore of hip hop DJs and of course cooler, cooler Vamba grand Master Flash, if we talking about hip hop period people, Um, I would have to add um Melie mel said that and probably myself to the other side, Damn you know what I mean, and that would be the five. If you want to ask them, you can ask them. Oh, I mean, of course we can ask. I mean, come on, a J d J A J I mean promoter. I mean he was more of a promoter than he was a DJ. But the nigga wrote, if I rule the world, I'm scared to ask. Why the funk? Am I here? What I'm saying? Okay, J Curtis world, the whole thing. Yeah, a lot of ship right now. We are out of my childhood as well. Not a bad thing. I'm just saying that for a very long time. Yeah, they was daring with each other and goes right. And what once you become an artist, man, that that hip hop purist ship goes right out the window out of who wrote it? I don't give a funk who invented it. Who I did was who you stolen from? That's just sound good. You're gonna recording that. Put that's your down, you know, so sit but hold up in this mount roachmore that you create. We got the five? No, hold on, hold on, hold up, where do you place? See? If you're talking about you're saying hipop bag the hole. I would have to include me and melimail In because you know, first of you will usually be cool, y'all just going at it at first. I mean that's groups. So we never never had no adam. But you're just put You're just adding, and this is just me asking a question. You're just adding the music side. Where do the b boys, the dances, the graffitis if you know that. Listen, if you are part of that mount Rushmore, if you relaxed, but hold on, we're not talking to you right now. We're talking to how many people are a mom Rushmore? Right now? It's filed four four, but we and we're stretching it by putting five. Do you want to include the elements of hip hop and every and every pioneer from that? It'd be too much. You need more amounts more mountains than Rushmore, So you know what I mean. Each each element would need its own um mountain range, or it would have to be a big enough mountain range to fit every you know, pioneer from that particular. What I'm saying, far as the DJ's is concerned, it would be Coolherd Bambata, Grandmaster Flash. I would have to include um uh DJ Breakout because Breakout was one of the premier DJs back in the day, not for skill or nothing like that, but he had uptown in the Bronx on lock and there's more breakout flyers than you can find pretty much most motherfucker's flies out there. And I'm talking about the original Brothers, Disco Funky Four and then later the Funky four plus one more with my sister shall Rock that I will be on Rock the Bell's Radio with the But I just want I just want to say because the only reason I was saying this because even by you, you were saying the B Boys is what led everybody to downtown was leaving that B Boys, the B Boys along with like Bam Body. I think see Planet Rock had come out by eighty two, and Planet Rock was that merge between punk rock, that punk rock sound and that and and and hip hop. So it was like carte blanche down there, you know what I mean that that that fucking scene was crazy down there. And then Van was one of the first cast to acquire manager Lady Blue, and Lady Blue was like the she was the way in down there to the to that punk rock scene and to the rock sea and all that eventually, so you know, playing rock, came from trans Eupe Express right right right, Germany, so his impact is indelible, indelible. You can't you can't not mention them, you know what I mean? Him Grandmaster Flash being hip hop's first turn table list. Okay, prior to him, everybody was just playing records, you know what I mean. He's the first one to start manipulating records you know how I made and changing them and but being on beat with it. The Cats told me a really dope story about when he was DJing and it was supposed to battle somebody and it ended up becoming Theodore. He was supposed to battle Theatore and he was like, wait, you DJA now because he just knew him was Teddy from the block. Because DJ was actually bigger than the MC back then, right, it was all about at the beginning of the hip hop it was DJ, DJ, was you getting pussy let's keep yeah, but he's here. MC was shouting out the drug dealers, so he was getting little biteah. But prior to the prior to that, yeah, the MC was bigging up the DJ, and prior to that, the DJ was bicking up his damn. So me, that's how I became a dual you know, dual role. I DJ and I m C. Um My, my DJ would fuck up every time I would go to do something like crucial, like I wrote this rhyme that's this and this and that, and when I got to this point and when I say this, boom, you bring in the record, and nine times out of tenn niggas would suck me. You know what I mean. I'm like your fuck y'all, and I start DJing for myself. So that's why they started calling me the first simultaneous d J m C. I'm not the first dude to DJ and m C, but I'm the first guy that documented that could DJ and rap at the same time. And I'm cutting my own or like, I give me a break beat and I'm cut that ship up and I'm rapping and I'm rhyming over like that. It was crazy and still gets busy to this day. So you put you put your own that bottle, say you found bro, bro. I'm just saying your ship. That's the reason why I'm glad it's nothing. Maybe I had something in there, but now I realized it's not Holy mooning man, So we already deport mooted the Indian Detective. What you told you about that? Right? We need to promote it is the culturally canceled with Russell Peters. Culturally that's your part. That's my podcast. One day when you're in l A. I'd like to have you on that. You know, you know I got your back. Bro' doing that noble and makes you happy. They don't make him happy. Yeah, I know, I like expensive ship. Let me ask you something. Uh do you remember when Swiss Beats made the announcement that he wanted to give the old Scoop pioneers a million dollars uh uh each each we're going there for like reparations. Tell them, yes, I did. What was What was your take on that? One of my main dollars as well. No, maybe you wanted to do this old school you said, you know, to check to tell you the truth, I'm gonna be expensive. I'll be honest with you this that so it's actually got that idea from us. We actually was been promoted. I forget what. Who got sick and we was like this is terrible the rap community. Jimmy Spicer. Jimmy Spicer got sick when we started talking about it. Wasn't him, but it was somebody just got sick. And we were just like, you know what, book, I think it was hurkouldn't hurt, wouldn't hurt? It might it might have been when Curtis had a heart attack. Oh yeah, I think that's what it was. Yeah, And the point your point so um, and we were just like, you know what, it's ill for us to, you know, separately, try to do something good for him. But the thing about it is, once you put it in a certain amount of time in this business, we should have a goddamn union. That says foot on the fucking ship. After you wake up in the morning and you're going on your way to bump your brush your teeth and you hit your big toe and your big toe turns purple. Hip hop, come in to take care of that ship. We put The only entertainment that doesn't have a union is boxing. Boxing is a boodoo squad. Just what we're saying. Are we saying that we're boxes, But this movie was saying. We're saying that we're here the killing each other the pugilist sport because everyone is not going to make it to the Promised Land, right, Everyone is not but everyone deserves to say promised land, especially if you you put in a certain time like for us when we So I'm trying to get back to your question, because what we were saying, me and I was saying, was we ship form my hip hop union. Every time you get anything and it's hip hop related, five to go to that union. Like my saying sag like a sag, but five. And I think we got most people that that's down with that. But I want to I want you to re iterate what did you feel when you when when you heard that. I mean, I thought I thought the sentiment was good. I just don't think it was well thought out. Because if you think about it, who who is a pioneer of hip hop? And then you gotta think, all right, how do you define a pioneer in hip hop? And who can say the five people that you named the council You said the council, that's the council Cool Work, Grandmaster Flash, Bamboo him and mel Mellie Mail, Grandmaster Cat would would would decide who's who? I wouldn't have a problem. I feel like if this who knows better? The first five millions to go to your five? And we yes, that that first five million reparations you called it, I call it reparations, and I want you to know I they viewed it right here and drink quote reparations. That's real. That's just really really, it's as real as it is for people, for black people as a whole who deserve reparations. Um, any time that you've been exploited over over a period of time and people have benefited, and not just benefited, but I mean become fucking moguls. I mean they control everything at this point and could take the amount of money that it takes to give you reparations out there, motherfucker pocket and walk. There could be a way that you could circumvent someone having to give their own money and you siphon it from taxes. If the government got involved. I mean that's probably more complicated a little bit, but you could create you know, what you give them. It was original forty acres in the middle that you promise us in the first from the place, Okay, no more, no less. It was a fucking forty acres in the middle you promised us in the first. But there's enough land left out here all right for us to fill up. So that's where I'm at with it. God, damn it man yo man um. I'd like to see it versus with Cod Crush versus Fantastic, just to bring it back. See that's a way, that a good way doing give back. Yeah, but then we gotta work for that, So that's not reparation. That's not reparation that if I got to do more work for something for something, You're right, that's not that I respect that. Another way for you, another way I'm looking at was perform again. Right. Another way of looking at it is it's opens up the younger generation to actually see it in real life. I heard about it and now it is right funny and no going back and looking at that footage, I was like, I was so amazed because I was just like, damn, this is real hip hop. Like after watching Versus and then going back and then doing this and watching your battle, I was just like, Damn, that is That's the essence of hip hop battle and you know what I mean. And and people took for granted the DJ like you you said earlier, I mean, with him being a point was everything was everything we did. It go from me being about the DJ to it being about the m C. Well, what happened. Who was getting the most pussy? What happened? The DJ was getting all the pussy at first, Damn C was guys who used to help carry the crates. MC was carrying the crates before they were listen. I'll go through, I'll go through. You want to get behind the rope car? Motherfuck mother speak? Where that carry getting even bars carry craze for me? Man, he's still carrying crazy in my mind. So I made all the equipment right now, what a lot of what a live they just take for granted today. You know, everybody wants to claim ownership and yeah I did this, and I'm this, and I'm so and so if you go back to the beginning of this ship, if I didn't bring my equipment outside, it wouldn't be no fucking party. Okay. I never walked up to no motherfucker set and was like, all right, let's go. I had to bring my ship outside, my own ship. Okay. If it broke, I had to pay for it to transport it. I had to pay for it, all right. If it was a nice day outside, nig was like, your cas let's bring me set out, you know what I mean? All right, fucking come on, you know who you got. It's like nine niggers outside my door ready to carry everything out. All right, bo, let's get it go out, play all day, this and that play party, which is this and that such set? And then the nights start getting dark. Motherfucker's disappeared. Now I'm stounding out on the motherfucking park with a bunch of equipment. Yeah, I mean by my fucking sething, I gotta get all that ship home. See, those are the kind of dudes that people don't understand that you paid prior to hip hop being what you see it as me being grandmaster. Casts today come from me being that nigga that had to carry all of his equipment in three fucking taxi cabs, okay, back and forth to different events and ship like that. So well, oh my god, man, holy man, that's what you can attribute that ship too. And we didn't really talk about my crew, my group, the Cold Crush Brothers, goddamn, but we over charging niggas for what they did to try to have Charlie chase you. Today's in Chicago right now. Yeah, well that's a good thing, you know what I mean? No, no, no, why are you laughing? That's that bullshit. That's my man, chased with the fucking base. Um, I'm just laughing up the line, like I've seen Chase more than you've seen Chase probably do. No, we speak all the time. We come on, you know, we're down, but he just down here and you know, and we up top. But as far as the group is concerned, UM, I've gone through so many different people talking. They call it out reinventing yourself, reinventing yourself, and that's supposed to be something that you know, you gotta become a dept to if you want any longevity in this business. But I started out and then ship as a B boy, okay the boy breakdance to be boy, Bronx boy original, you know, B boy and going to parties dancing And one day hercle was playing at a club calling he Wilow and a security is to be standing outside and Ship, and one day he blinked, and when that nigga eyelid went down, I shot up in that motherfucker's club and I hid behind the speaker for about I don't know, about twenty to thirty minutes, and I just saw everything that went on and and I was like Yo, this is the fuck it. I didn't say it like that, but I was like, Yo, this is it. This is what I want to do. See, I don't want to be one of the hundreds of people out here dancing. I want to be that one person that's making all these hundreds of people dansk And that's when I decided I want to be a DJ. Yeah. Man, I used to stand outside the motherfucker's just listening to the records he might play because I was too early to get in, and I just see if I could catch up. He looked up two besides her, um, all of the early DJs, because there were different genres of DJs, so uh, you know, Hollywood, of course was the disco, not not so much disco when you think in a sense of disco, like this kind of disco. Now, he wasn't that kind of He was the growing in sexy, the grown is sexy, R and B suit tided you know what I mean, flash shoes, you know what I mean. I mean our money then for well, he sold a lot of nicols. Well exactly well for us. Copla Rock was the first hip hop m C because he was the first man on the microphone to stand next to a DJ playing hip hop music. You understand what I'm saying now, hip hop Copla rock was more in the in the vein of a like a last poets Okay you're not the last poet was and and they they they didn't wrap so much as they rhyme, or they didn't rhyme so much as they wrapped, you know what I mean. Oh okay? And um that was that was Copland rocks vibe, you know what I mean. But that eventually evolved. See early people on the mic was DJ is just making announcements. I'm DJ. I'm like, yo, this and this and that next week we're gonna be at the p L will we rock? Well, we want to see your face in the place, trying to say right right right, just just a little even a little stick ship. And then police athletically, yes, namely the one thirsty and Webster in the Bronx got them. Um. But these little, these little quips and these little things eventually became versus and they eventually no lines. They became lines, and then it became like punch lines, and then it became verse bars and they became versus and then they evolved into rap. As we know it today, but they all come from somebody in the put saying, Yo, my man rust is in the house. He cooling out, without a doubt, rocked the house. Rap came from ship like that, you know, I mean, and TV commercials let me drop a real jewel on you, and nobody, nobody that come on this fucking show was gonna say this. Okay. The early one of the earliest inspirations for rhyming m c and came from a car commercial. Okay, a Great Bear commercial. Great Bear, you know when you get your car fixed? Great Bear? All right, y'all, niggas. It's something different now, but back then there was the It was this car company called not a car company but repair Fly fix your car was called Great Bear, and they had this commercial they used to come on right and it used to go like this. You're driving down the highway and the dead and night, and up ahead there's a terrible site. Then you hit the brakes. They're not all there. You missed this one, but only ahead to say at the prayer, just take your brakes and your turn around, and then you look a great Bear. And that was the original theme for how nigga starting rapping that Great Bear commercial. If you listen to most people wrapping days, they sound the same Catus the death, and that, this, this and that. I don't know to this day, something ad guy probably, But I mean, you can trace rap and and all the elements of hip hop, you can trace them all back to other things and things that have been done long before us, long before us. But you can't say I got this dance from the Nicolas Brothers when I never seen the motherfucking Nicolas Brothers. This is that energy that was transported to me in my generation, just having to be the same energy from that generation. Jesus, I'm taking sorry you like a shot. Russell Petus, I'm down for that, alright, for your boys, we agree for you. Grandma as a cat. Holy sh it, I ain't gonna lie. I said, I said this earlier. I used to be people Google for me, now google for myself. This was the most funnest I've ever researched. People rechurch and somebody, because that's just your history just kept going, and they just kept going. And I look at rap like with superheroes, like people who've been through rap. And I'm sorry for anybody in the military. I'm sorry for anybody, but I look like like that. It's like you've been through the military. We went through the war, and now we're just gonna be regular people, civilians. We've got to be civilians, and none of us know how to be a civilian because you're right, that's what made you and your first album was the World Report Imagine. So he's literally he's not just that made you know that that that that puts you in that position. But the whole thing, the whole culture was built on our need for self expression. You know, when hip hop started, the Bronx was fucked up. You know, the city at the large was sucked up, but it really concentrated because when you know the Cross Bronx Expressway was was designed and built, that ship ran right through the fucking Bronx and tore a hole through the whole Bronx and the whole community that exists the traffic deal to this day and and and displaced people all over the to make that ship happen. The conditions that existed when hip hop started was the reason why I think people um come towards the Bronx as far as hip hop, because I know, I know a lot of people from Queens don't. And I'm talking about cats. I know people like to just go twins and the guys that used to play out and re speech back in the day, just like well Ship we was doing. We was playing music way before cool Hurt. Yes you were. I remember as a child my sister lived in Queens and she used to take me out there to see Plumber and my Boya and DJs like that. But nobody wasn't cutting up no records. If you're looking at anybody create out there, their main record when they play it was love is the message that was apache when they called on When when hip hop started playing it okay because this wasn't records they played on the radio. Hip Hop comes from those records that they don't play on the radio, and not even the whole record. You just played the beat of the record. That's where all the samples from hip hop come from. That's where the rhythm of the droll drums all that come from those original break beats, you know what I mean. And the thing that makes it hip hop is we're not playing the whole record throughout, like at least two three hours this party, all you hearing is sections of records. The beginning records, not even the beginning of creating a record, unto itself. The Break. The Break itself created new music today. Let people listen to today. Let me ask you this question. Right, the message right came out men like real street ship. But then the message get remaked puff daddy, Uh huh yeah that part yeah yourself boy, because it was check itself your record. So I mean by that you first of all falls ice cub concern. You're talking about the nigger who made jacking for beats a right, So he jack, He's gonna get what he wants. But I mean rightfully, so you know what I mean. His first album was done by the bomb Squad here in New York. He's a better question, public enemy. This is the question I've been wanting to ask all that I'm and made a record talking about he used to love I love that ship. Alright, So let's just just related to that. Right. Hip hop was a girl. How did you recognize that girl when she went to the West Coast? Well, well, did you even recognize her? Well, you see how pussy mothers saying Christmas she got she got fake titties when she went to the west on the West Coast, she got gangster and I related, I related, I related to that on on so many different levels because it was because somebody's actu her h was the first West Coast actu her first west It was like what there, Uh no, I can't say I iced tea over here? How many world class recordly No, it was like like Arabian Prince ye love from Egyptian Lover. Yeah, those guys that boom eventually boom boom boom and the beat go boomooll not no, no, no, don't don't put that ship on that they looked. It was like ready for the world. It was some funk the five ship over We not this in the West Coast either. Never that never that never that. That's my that's my second home. Okay, that's the only place other place I had a residence, Okay. And out there, I mean we got mad love. But I learned a lot. I learned a lot. And nice T was the first m C from the West Coast that I met and gravitated towards because they had the club call radio Radio Trial. Yeah, out there all this stick you don't play, and in here say let's take a research like you do. And he's a fucking elephant. He retains all that ship um. So yeah, the radio trig. So that's when I first met Ice and just took out the same camp. All right, that's damn, that's beautiful. Him on it. We gotta go come on yeah yeah, come on, sorry, give it some stuff. So yeah, yeah, I can't stop these guys. These just keep talking. We don't give he was he was in a Megatron radio truck. So that's when I first met Iced Tea and six in the morning. Islam from from the Nation Sunva okay Um had relocated out there to the West coast to l A and he became Ice teas producer. So I met Ice when I did the radio tron out there and we connected and I I was talking to him. He was building, and I told him in the building, not my brother, how you doing you man? He missed it. You brought me the build peters. I was like, yea, get continued. You're talking about um, it's just the tip, come on, come on. So so so me and I was building, so he was like, yo, I want to do this hip hop ship man, but I need a group. Man, I want to get a group. I was like, yo, can you write rhymes? By yourself? Can you write your own rhymes? People like yeah, I said, and you don't need a group. I mean, I have to just stay by yourself. You go solo, do your own thing. I said, you had this whole West Coast s on a lot by yourself. Ask him to tell you to this day. That's why he called me one of his mentors. You know what I mean what the ill ship is. And I only think a lot of people know this is that I iced tea from New Jersey. I feel like she stopped. He was born born in New Jersey. That because but he was like in his twenties when he moved to the West coas post. That's a grown ass man. He's a grown ass man. He's a New Jersey kid. Originally, I'd just like to blow your mind a little bit. He's what he's about. I'm about from New Jersey, moved to the West Coast in the early eighties and then picked up hip hop from there. Yeah after that, that's like saying he's the first Tupac, because Tupac was actually really rarely New York from New York and then didn't want them all? Did he move to Oakland, Oakland and Dennis. She telling me Iced Tea is the same thing's my friend. I don't even want to hit him right now, they say, iced Tea move to West Coast in the early eighties from New Jersey and his Yeah, in his twenties, I mean finished the summer from Brick City there. Yeah, from New York, right from work somewhere around after fourteen. Wherever you grow up out, that's where you're fucking fun. Yeah, he didn't. When you reclaiming, I used to see right now, he when he went to the military, and then he moved to the West Coast. Ship. This is his trip, we reclaimed. That's why he could do to Jackson. Yes, yes, yes, yes, motherfucking um oh my man, Morgan Freeman and his business. But did you get one of the good blunts? Yeah, I got one of you. Let me take something. Let me let me just say. Is that the Fermian moment. Let just say something, give it right back to you real quickly. I don't out with Dave Chappelle on land On. One day I saw you and I fucking had the mid weed on me. I was so like, I landed my boy said, I got I got some weed. I was like, all right, cool funk guys went straight. St Me just brought my bags down. Went we went straight mister Me and the lead boom. I don't know I'm running the Dave Jappelle walks in. I'm like, oh ship, and he's like, oh shoot. I was like, you got passed the blood days passed, Blunt, the days bro. I'm looking. He walks away into Blow. I'm like, shit, if this motherfucker realizes I just handed him up men and blunt. Okay, it's been sucking with me for Lawrence figured out this. I figured out this thing is here. This whole weekend. I had my boy Larrence come over. We rove the ships into the bomb skinning. Hey, Dan, I made sure ay day the v I p room with. I don't let me let me big up to quality. The first day and all the other days, my brother j Rob we came through and make sure we got through. But let me tell you something. I smoked that room out. I mean sure, I know you know what. I came with the bat and I see now you I mean you got the I mean you got the call Blode. You can go anywhere you like to goddamnit you want. I feel like you're taking another shot. I just feel like it. Any boys got me, They're gonna get me. Did you just call him the Heney Boys? That god? Oh my god. Let people go if you drink. Yeah, yeah, my niggas, don't worry. I beat my man Porto Rico, Big Game, the Man k Beat, Why black Man and my man Big tone noise. You're taking a shot with us. Yeah, I'm taking the shot. Okay. You want what you want? Okay, yeah, yeah, put yourself a shot first though, hold on, hold on, ye don't gonna take the shot of this. You can't get ready, baby, I'm gonna try this now. Listen. I don't gonna be all right whatever, nigga, how many times I'm gonna be on drink? Come on anything you want to ask me any time you want? You, bro, come on here, get a shot. Got damn man boy, we got a chair right now, but come get the shots. You help me to let you. That's okay. We love you. Come on, come on, come on, came listen. I missed the more I miss you, Bro. I think about it all the time. I sa you was here. Okay, yeah, I can't do I thank you. Come through ready enough? Phil, you know. That's a great question. Say your team to come in to take the drink over a little heny boys, let's go boys, henymen heny min min not me the mom trying to amen, drink man. Where's that for? Pollo? Me? Okay, Amen, that's that's new name. Haney man, God damn it man, love love love love. Come on, come on, brothers, brottle little little great to me, everybody, a little fellers, alright with the mean bucket on. I'm watching you the mean by queen ship though, right did the bucket is us? Just be clear? So little man, I don't Master motherfucking cast you, thank you for doing what you do. You did and continue to do. Were always gonna salute, We're always gonna respect you, and we love you. Brother. Thank you right here. So I got one more question. We're gonna take a picture of the drop. Oh that should this smooth? It's not not smooth. I was a little hot, my man says. We're trying to get this Japanese whiskey for three years, drink spirits. That's got Japanese whiskey, baby, all right, I mean bank hank right the ship. So what's next, grand master cast So what's next for you man, Um what we're doing. I don't know what I did. And like I said, we were talking about earlier about reinvention. I mean, I started out as DJ Casting over Fly, d j MC casting over Fly to Grandmaster Casting over Fly to Grandmaster Cass. I shortened my name from Castanova Fly because Grandmaster Flash had a security crew called the Castanova's who were gangsters, and I didn't like me being Castanova Fly, like I was affiliated with them, so anything could have happened to me behind some ship they did, you know what I mean, And they like not foul, but they were security. But there was the niggers in the streets, you know, black spades, you know what I mean? And all that I mean, I always want to know. So I just shortened my name the cast from casting over Fly. That's why my name is cast in the first place. Um, and then uh from different groups, I mean the crews and guys leaving and going to other places and me and having to start over. First I had the casting over Flying Disco whis and then my man Whiz got knocked and went to jail. Then I had the recruit of it. Yeah, yeah, Puerto Rican and Puerto Rican have Cuman. I told you. I'm I'm telling you I have so. I mean from the Mighty Force to the Force five to the Notorious two when it was just me and J D L. Until they recruited me to the Cold Crush, and you know, until after the Cold Crush, you know what I mean. I've had to keep going and do different things. Now this day, man, I'm doing everything from hip hop sight seeing tours. I've been doing that for eighteen years. About my Hush Hush hip hop site seeing tours. I take people from all around the world on the bus in Midtown Manhattan and I take him uptown to the wh about that I showed hi where hip hop happened, Like like, who do you want Mr Lead to do that? I'll take you to fift Yeah. I've been doing that for eighteen years. Okay. So I also host the UH. It was formerly the Tools of War summer Park jams up in Coltona Park, all in the parks around u UH New York. UM the Tools of War, which was Chris t Z and Popmaster Fable UH. They dropped out UM in two thousand and eighteen. I took over in two thousand and nineteen. So I've been doing that since then. We had a break with COVID and now we're back. So every year, I got like three to four, well three to five thousand people out in the park every every Thursday, Rocket July, Rocket exactly. And we got I mean, d scratch, I got cash money out there, I got I got real figures out there. But we need to go up. And that's help started we got. I'm trying. I'm trying to fill you in. I'm trying to let you know what's going on my organization, Windows of Hip Hop. I mean, we're making magic in the community. We are building the studio in in in the Bronx Elementary School see US fifty five. We adopted the school and they adopted US so H with the help of the borough president and our councilwoman Vanessa Gibson. You know, we donated funds to the school and we're playing active roles and you know, and the kids development. We got hip hop curriculums that we've written and put forward and implemented in these in these projects that we're implemented in the schools, and I'm I'm more excited about that than anything else that we're doing out there. Right now. Um I, uh, I've just been a uh appointed the official DJ for Coolmo d now because I've been on tour with him for the last few years. You know, we did a joint together called Notice and uh so I'm on the row with him. Um Me and Shan Rock was gonna start Rock the Bell's radio. We're gonna have a show, uh three hours Monday through Friday on Rock the Bell. So that's a platform that, uh, I think I was made for. I've been following you, you know what I mean. And I and even though and even though I've been doing this for a long time, I haven't been doing it in this format. And I understand that there's different dynamics to entertainment. And you gotta recognize that, you know this radio nigger, this ain't the stage, this ain't the studio. I mean, this is something else. So I definitely been checking you know you. I mean, how y'all do your things? How ship rocket ship like that? So appreciate you and hope, you know, hopefully I do half as well. Not listen, let me just tell you something, man, you got your back. This is your platform, this is your format. Anytime you want to come on here, and even if you want to pick your toes on here, it's okay. You don't want to FaceTime FaceTime you come, you come to Miami. Anytime you come to Miami, you want to be here just to talk about I don't give a fuck if you want to talk about the new gazelles you got. And this is what we all. This platform is yours. We made it for you, We made it for people of your stature. And if you ever want to talk to the media, don't go to the media. Gotta go to your homies. You go to your homies. Your homies got your back. It's gonna let you do what the funk you want to do. We love you, we respect you. You gotta take a couple of pictures, Let's take some drops, and you gotta wrap this to funk up. But listen, this was fucking pleasure. Oh we was amused, Mattics. You know we we we're real hip hop fans. I mean, I don't I know he was excited, but I couldn't tell because you know, I didn't see you until just now, until we got here, you know what I mean. And I don't want to blow you up, but I believe that I am in a position that I could do this no repercussions. Okay, we Russ hooked us up when once Rush did drake shop, Like, yo, I want to They've been they've been asking me. You know, you know, I been calling me, but I haven't got no feedback. And he was like, I said, ef I e F e FN. I'm sorry, alright, really nothing really, let's take it on this show. Hold on. First of all, First of all, I've been calling and then I've been seeing things that say, e FN. I tried to together. I gotta take Are you gonna do whiskey, let's go, let's do mama, let's go to drink an there's enough of you. One more hit me like you hit yourself. Mommm. I'm gonna light on it because that. Don't worry about it. Bro, the spirits aren't here. You need to shake that bottle up. It's got sentiment the bottle. That's what at the end, I get really into things. So listen, are you familiar? You want ice? No white? Now, I'm good. I'm good. If you're gonna go straight, I'm gonna straight. I'm gonna straight. I'm gonna straight. All right, bo bro, boom boom. All your pain be champagne. All right, let me get you some champagne. Got that, I got the pin. It's sweeter as it gets thicker. You all want to salute by any boys that came down and see boy, well gotta eat this shot. Not because they literally they literally sell us down. But come on, listen, even go, but let's take Thanks for joining us for another episode of Drink Champs, hosted by Yours truly, d J e f N and n O r E. Please make sure to follow us on all our socials. Let's add Drink Champs across all platforms at the Real Noriegan I g at Noriega on Twitter, mine is at Who's Crazy on I g at d J e f N on Twitter, and most importantly, stay up to date with the latest releases, news and merch by going to drink Champs dot com. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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Drink Champs

Legendary Queens rapper-turned show host N.O.R.E. teams up with Miami hip-hop pioneer DJ EFN for a n 
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