John Schmeelk and Tony Pauline are joined by Bruce Feldman, from the Athletic, to discuss the players on his 2024 Freaks List and the top teams to watch in college football this year.
:00 - 2024 Freaks List
15:30 - Top 10 prospects
22:37 - Outside of top 10
34:51 - Wide receivers
45:57 - Elijah Chatman
It is now fish on the open. Welcome to Draft season. We are back for the twenty twenty four college and pro football season. John Shmulke, Tony Pauline. We're still brought to you by Moodies. And every year we like to lead off our season with the man who comes out with I'll call it the best list on all of sports. It's the annual Freaks List from Bruce Feldman. You can find it on the Athletic. You can also see him on TV covering college football for Fox. Bruce, you got johnsh Milk and Tony Pauline with you. We're all about to get started here. This is airing the Monday after kind We have our little fake college football weekend before the big college football weekend, and it's time for the sprint. My friend that you're ready to go?
I am. I love this time of year, especially because we don't ourselves actually have to go sit in a classroom and go to school. That was like the bittersweet part of this time of year was like, I love the football is around the corner. I didn't love that I had to go get new clothes and get ready for the classroom. But now just as a grown up quote unquote, I love it, Bruce.
What's the first game you're going to be attending this year, Tony?
The first game I have is we go to West Virginia for Penn State West Virginia, So we have a good slate that we know our first three games, it's that game in Morgantown. Then week two we're in ann Arbor for Texas at Michigan, and then week three Alabama Wisconsin, So can't wait, can't wait.
And Texas Michigan. Texas Michigan game is going to be huge, not only from a scouting perspective, but you know a national title perspective. Is going to be a big challenge for the new head coach who basically met every challenge that he was presented with last year.
Yeah, I mean, you know, look, they're going to be really good, I think on defense again, you know, they got playmakers on the front end, in the back end with Will Johnson. But then they're going to get Queen Yours, who will be an interesting prospect for everybody to check out. You know, he's played a lot now he has really good receivers. They're different receivers because you know he had two high you know, high draft picks with speed, and now they bring in a bunch of guys from the portaland Coon two who are almost as fast as Avier Worthy, not quite you know, one as smaller, but like they should be pretty dynamic and they have a good offensive line. So I think I think that's gonna be.
Yeah, So why don't we jump into the freaks list, Bruce? As you mentioned, you know you a Penn State and you detach your first game. You got a bunch of guys from both schools on this freaks list. We'll get to some of those, but first, I feel like the list really reflects when you take a look at it, what this draft nine months from now might look like. It's reflected in your list. There's a lot of guys up front on defense, especially on the edge that populates your list.
Yeah, I mean, and I felt like that was kind of you know, I don't want to say it's sick look all, but you do get a little you know, last year, obviously a Lot two was a great player who was out here on the West Coast, you know where I live, and was was was just an elite technician and you know, had a really interesting backstory. Obviously Dallas. Turner was an explosive guy at Alabama, but you didn't really have what I think now. It's just there's just a lot of dudes that are coming up, and not just edge guys, but there's a lot of you know, I alluded to Kenneth Grant from Michigan. I mean, they've had a bunch of freaky d linemen, you know, going back. You know, Rashan Gary's from back where you guys are. You know, New Jersey Kid, he started it. You obviously had Aiden Hutchinson in there. I mean Kenneth Grant's three p fifty and the way those coaches talk about him, and those coaches have been there for this whole run, you know he is. I have some video on the Freaks List, you know, with the story on the Athletic where people can look and see just how he moves at that size. I mean there's a play they play Penn State and he runs down Catron Allen, who's a good back, and he runs him down thirty yards downfield. I mean, this is a guy who's three fifty, not two fifty, and there. I don't want to say there's a lot of other guys like that, but you know they have another one. You know, Mason Graham is a big, big time player, and there's just a lot of you know, Ohio State had two terrific defensive ends who decided to come back. They could have put their names in the draft, you know, JT. Twomloou, Jack Stoyer. Those guys are really really good players. But you know, Ohio State stepped up and nil is a little different now than it probably was. You know what that equation was like for guys who maybe they can come out and be top fifty picks, but if they stay another year, maybe they can be top twenty picks.
Yeah, it's funny because you know Grant Smith. You talk about him, Kenneth Grant, I should say you could see that athleticism film. I mean you could see the way he moves, and everybody talks about Mason Graham, and the way I like to present it now is Mason Graham is the better football player today, but two or three years down the road, Kenneth Grant has the ability to be the much more dynamic, much more dominant player because of that size, because of that athleticism, and because the fact that he if he does the little things well, would just become a better football player.
Yeah, and I think when you see it, I mean, Mason Grahams are really like if he was someplace else, I think that the explosiveness and some of the stuff that would get him on the freaks list would probably show up more. It's just like you have this other guy who's like the freak of all freaks in there at that size. But yeah, I mean you're talking about I mean, this is going to be really interesting because obviously you have a defense coordinator a lot of NFL people know, you know, and win Martin Ill goes there. They've had a lot of turnover. And I want to say it's in a good way because you go from you know, Mike McDonald who Jim Harbaugh had a great higher there and than Jesse Menner. Now both goes guys. One guy's a head coach in the NFL, the other guys a defense coordinator with the Chargers. And what he inherits is those two big guys. Josiah Stewart is another edge guy who the people inside Michigan are really raving about. You know, he was at Coastal Carolina, was really productive and then he was a rotational guy. Last year. They have Will Johnson, who was the MVP of the the National Title Game at corner. He's a big corner and you know, super smart. People love as intangibles. I don't know if he's gonna run in the four threes, but everybody who's worked with him can't say enough good things about him. So you have like that defense I think is going to be really interesting to watch this year.
You know, you mentioned Will Johnson. He could be a top ten pick. That to tackle sub Michigan could be top ten picks. There are all three guys you mentioned in your article on the athletic Surprisingly though, and maybe this has to do with how the list gets put together. Not a ton of Ohio State guys on your list. You have their guard right, you have He's on there, their linebacker styles is on there. But I feel like there were probably a little bit more representation.
Yeah, Jeremies and of.
Course Jeremiah Smith. Well, I was going to ask you about it to you, Dan, do a lot of people think is going to be maybe one of the best college wide receivers they've ever seen.
Yeah, I mean, Jeremiah, the people inside Ohio State now are trying to be cautious about what they're seeing and not get like the hype is already pretty crazy around him. I mean, people who've been in recruiting a long time in South Florida say he's the most talented receiver they've ever seen out of there. And if you think of the receivers who come through there, one of them just went in the Hall of Fame a couple of weeks ago, Andre Johnson, you know, and so now again, Jeremiah Smith was probably more polished than a lot of those guys coming out of high school. But he's six three, he's almost two twenty, and his strength numbers are crazy. He's almost an eleven foot broad jump guy. You know. Marvin Harrison Junior is obviously an elite talent and really polished. This guy's stronger, more top end, and I mean he's stronger now than you know, coming right out of high school. So he's really special. But yeah, I think with Ohio State, those guys are really good football players. They're a little the ones you know, we're talking about a little like what Tony was saying with Mason Graham. I mean Jack Sawyer is really really good. Really, you know, they're talking about a really complete guy. I don't know if he's as twitchy as some of the other edge guys, but it was also you know, these are not small guys out there either. You know, the two guys who had like the crazy get off numbers and you know last year, you know, one guy was at Penn State and the other guy was Dallas Turner. I mean one's like two forty eight, the other ones like two fifty four. You know, they're not two seventy, right, And so I think that's a little you know, different math there when you're seeing a guy who's around two fifty compared to a guy who's that much bigger, and you know, probably won't put up quite as as as eye popping numbers in the combined part of it.
Go ahead, don yeah, I mean, you know, just since we're talking about Ohio State, you know, Donovan Jackson is on your list the offensive guard and it's probably a good thing that he went back because you know, a year ago at this time, people talking about a Day two pick. Some people said he could maybe slide into the late part of round one. Just had did not have a good year. I mean, Hio State offensive line last year was up and down, and I think Jnovan Jackson was a little bit more down. But as you mentioned in your you know, as he's on your freaks list, he has that innate ability to be a real good, you know, college guard and then project to being an NFL prospect.
Yeah. I mean, he was a huge recruit coming out of high school. He was id'd that way early on, and he's played a lot. And you remember when he was in there, you had two offensive tackles who you know, both high level prospects, right, and he was the other guy you had noticed. And then I think around him and again, so much offensive line is a cohesiveness of how it kind of the park worked together. I mean, so they had uncertainty at center, you had the offensive tackles were really inconsistent. For lack of a better the most talented one they probably had last year was a transfer from San Diego State who had some gun moments and some not so great moments. I just think, you know, for a tea that was undefeated going into the Michigan game, there was still you know, like I mean, Traveon Henderson to me, the running back has got some wow traits to him as a running back, but I just think there was a lot of times where you know, is he going to be healthy to play? There was just a lot of parts of it you didn't have you CJ. Strott obviously is a fantastic quarterback, but then they went, you know, the quarterback was a question mark, right, I mean, it was just everything felt a little off at Ohio State last year. It just it just felt a little And you know, now we see a staff shake up, and obviously Chip Kelly comes in there to run the offense. He's really good in the run game, and I think that mentality, you know, combined, and you know he knows the two O line guys he's working with because they know both worked with him at UCLA and Justin Frye, who is you know, has been a good O line coach. But I think now I think there's probably everybody is going to be more on the same page with what the identity is because I felt like last year they didn't seem like they really had a comfort in what their identity was because I think so many of you lose both offensive tackles, you lose a I don't know if it's we can call Cja generational quarterback, but I mean, you know, because they've had so many great quarterbacks, but he was he was special, and I just think they were just a little off. And maybe that this year for Donovan Jackson, you'll see him kind of settle in to being the leader and to be in an all American kind of guy and we.
Should notice it. Just to stan Ohio State, CJ. Stroud was generational. When you compare him the column accord, You're pretty sure from a college football question, Will Howard's gonna win? That is going to be that starting quarterback this year in Ohiostate.
Yeah, from what I've heard, there's real good optimism about him. You know, he's a better athlete than I think a lot of people outside realized. I mean, there were some long runs he had a k state, you know, talking to Chip Kelly, he was like, this guy is a twenty two mile per hour guy that they've tracked on GPS. Is actually faster than some of the guys who people thought were faster than him. And again, I don't think they're asking him. You know, CJ's arm was special, is special, and I don't think they're asking him to try to do that. And I don't think Chip Kelly especially running offense. He wants to run the football, and I think that's going to help them identity wise, because you know, Ohio State felt different than everybody else in the Big Ten and for a long time that was a good thing because they were so explosive. But I think last year it felt like it was a little bit there was another side of it where it was just kind of like the run game was just kind of missing a little bit. And I think that'll be back, and I think that'll really that'll really help. And I think, look, they have two big time running backs, not just Henderson now Quinch Wepkins Corole miss and he's got a lot of juice. I mean, that's a scary one two punch there.
Yeah, especially Junkins in that Chip Kelly running game. That could be scary. And just so draft fans and NFL people, Jeremiah Smith not draft eligible for the like three years, guys, so you're gonna have to wait for him. You mentioned Will Johnson, the cornerback out of Michigan already, Bruce He's a guy that I think people think it could be a top ten pick. Other guy who's kind of a cornerback that's at the top of your freakslist. Number two, in fact, is Travis Hunter, the cornerback slash wide receiver out of Colorado. And I think it was interesting in your write up with him. It's not just his testing numbers and his physical traits that's impressive, is that he's still testing on the field GPS wise at these numbers even though he's playing like one hundred snaps per game.
Yeah, I mean it's crazy because like last year, our first game was TCU, was coming off playing a National tital game, was hosting CU a lot of curiosity. It is hot down there in Texas, especially in you know, whatever is August thirtieth or whatever that date was. It's like one hundred degrees. He played one hundred and forty snaps in that game, one hundred and forty and he made two plays in the second half, and it was like the real analytics folks who have you know, track a lot of this stuff, the numbers that he you know, in terms of his closing speed on two separate plays, one he makes this diving red zone interception where his break on the ball is exceptional. The other one where he runs down a running back like sixty yards downfield, it's the gas tank he has. It's one thing to be on the field, it's another thing to be on the field and making those kind of plays after being you know, after it's not just being in the game for two hours, it's being on both sides of the ball. It's kind of unprecedented, you know, I have to go back. Chris Gamble was a really good two way player at Ohio State. This is, you know, almost twenty years ago, now, if it's weird saying it's almost twenty years you know, Obviously, people remember Charles Woodson went in a Heisman, Champ Bailey, those guys were suspect. Those two are really spectacular. But the workload that Travis Hunter is doing is insane. You know. Ay also four point zero student, you know, credit to him for that. I'm interested to see how if he is a three and out guy. And obviously his first year was at Jackson State and then you will have two at CEU. You know what he's evaluated like coming in the process. Obviously, Deon Sanders knows cornerbacks better than anybody, but he you know, everything you see from him because he was a five star, number one ranked player coming out of high school. And chose to go to FCS to play for Deanna Jackson State. You know, it wasn't like he's you know, there's plays where there's another guy on the Freakslist tenor o'cmillon, guy with unbelievable ball skills out of Arizona. Another he could be a three and out. You know, there's plays where he gets a touchdown on you know, Travis, Like there's there's gonna be times where somebody you know gets him. But again, just the workload is insane. I mean, do people say, all right, he's probably much better at a cornerback than he is as a receiver. I don't know.
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I want to go a little bit deeper into your top ten. You know we talked about Kenneth Grant. We've got two guys that believe both are super seniors, Derek Van of North Carolina State and Jordan Birch of Oregon, who started his career with South Carolin. There are different types of guys. I mean, Van is a guy who just makes play after play after play when you look at him from an NFL prospect point of view, what position is gonna play? Six one and a half two seventy he makes plays? Is a defensive end? Is he a three technique guy? And then you got Jordan Burke sixty four and a half, two hundred and eighty plus pounds, outstanding athlete, makes some wild plays. And this is a guy that he really pulls it together. And you mentioned this in this article. The coaches expect a breakout year. This is a guy who right now as great as a Day three pick that could make a big march up draft boards.
Yeah. When I talked to Dan Lanning, the coacher, and he had come from Georgia. He'd been at Alabama, so he's seen you know, elite front you know front guys. He just talked about how it feels like something the light has more come on. And if you you know, he was a freakslist guy last year. It wasn't like he was a slouch. I mean, he's been productive at times, but it's like and again, he was a five star guy, come out high schoo went to South Carolina. I remember Ed Oseron, you know, the old LSU coach, and he's been around more big time d linman than any coach I know. He was like, this is the best, the most talented defensive linman in the country. And then I remember he went to South Carolina and he was good, but he was not like, Oh, this guy's going to be a top ten pick someday. This might be, this might be the breakthrough year for him. Again, the way Dan Loning was talking about in terms of his conditioning, in terms of like, you know, it seems like the attention to detail, he has a chance of the two of them. You know, I feel like no one, no one really questions Davin Van's motor. You know, he was a he was an elite wrestler. He's a track guy. He's just you know, if he was thirty pounds bigger, you know, is he taller? Yeah? Is he?
Is?
He you know, trying to be in that Aaron Donald Elijah Canci mode. But he's he's not. He's he's smaller, He's he might be a little bit of a tweeter, but I think he's the third down guy where they move him inside and he's he causes all kinds of havoc. I mean, he's a really good player at NC State. You know, I don't know. I'm curious how high he could go in the draft. Whereas if Birch does what Dan Lanning thinks, Burch could be a top ten pick. There's nothing stopping him from being He's almost three hundred pounds. You know, he's almost six ' five. He can move like you know, he's really explosive. I think there's also a lot of position flexibility with him, depending on where he is weight. Wives you had that, you know, he had a really good defensive lineman from the Zoo. I don't want to say, you know, relatively similar size now, that kid everybody loved in meetings, and you know, it is just kind of I think loved the intangible piece of it. Whereas Birch. I'm not saying they won't, but Birch is, i think, an even better athlete than Robinson was. So we'll be interesting to see because there's high, high expectations for this Oregon team this year. I mean, they should be one of the three best teams in the country this year, and if Birch takes another big step forward, they could win a national title. I really believe that because he could. He's as tent as any d lineman out there.
I want to stick in your top ten Bruce real Quick. A guy that I had never heard of until I read him in your top ten. Kamori Copeland. I love the story Iowa Community College out there went the Army two wind up in Virginia Tech six three two eighty and I feel like this is a guy that could explode on the scene if everything goes right for him. About Tech.
Yeah, and there are a bunch of freaks in Blacksburg right now. I had three, I could have had probably five guys on there, and this one is insanely strong. But he also is like a twenty mile opera hour GPS guy. It's funny. One of the other freaks guys I had on there had DMed me and he was like, you gotta put Kamari because they knew each other from that junior college in Iowa. And so people know about him. I mean again, you know, like he was at West Point then he then he went to junior college. I expect he will be a really big force for them in the middle of the defense for the Hokies. I mean, Brent Prible has had a lot of really good Front seven guys back when he was at Penn State. You know, I'm interested to see just like again, there's good buzz about him, and now it's like, okay, how does it translate, you know in the ACC level where there are a bunch of really you know, there's a lot of good dlignemen there. I mean, obviously Clemson had a run of him. Florida State now has I mean a couple of really you know, I had two you know, defensive tackles high up on my freeurst this year. Miami has a bunch of dudes in the D line now, especially some of the younger guys they have. But and you mentioned NC State and Van Now this other guy though, I think, you know, I want to see what it looks like with him this year in terms of making the leap from junior college into into really being in a role where I think they're counting on him to be to be a very disruptive player.
Want to talk right outside the top ten. Number eleven, Nick emmin Wari of South Carolina. When you watch the South Carolina film, you can't not notice this guy because he's so big, and he's so huge, moving sideline to sideline in center field, just blowing up plays. I mean he is a linebacker sized defensive player in the defensive secondary.
Yeah, his numbers are crazy, Tony. I mean it was like the numbers like you know, Shane members the coach, when we were talking about because I asked him because Nick Harber's my number one guy. You know, he's an elite track guy and he's also a super sized receiver, and so I asked him about Nick and I was like, these numbers are insane that somebody had sent me about him. You know, eleven four broad jump, forty two inch vertical, also twenty four reps at two twenty five. You know, for a linebacker, that's good. Now for a safety, that's insane. He's almost two hundred thirty pounds. The other thing that's and there he's productive. He's only been there two years. He's still only twenty years old. You know, I don't know what he projects like in the NFL, but like those traits now at twenty years old, those numbers are remarkable. And again he's in the SEC. He is not in like he's not doing it at a smaller conference where he is, you know, big boying like moderately talented guys. I mean he's doing this in the SEC, and you know, I feel like more people should be talking about him. You don't see this kind of production with this kind of size and this kind of athleticism in the SEC and not people aren't, you know, raving about him. He's bigger than Harold Perkins's right, and know, Harrold Perkins had huge, you know, reputation coming out of two years ago, out of his freshman year. And I'm not saying he's not an elite player, because he is, but I'm just more people. I think it's because this team, you know, didn't go to a bowl game last year that it was just kind of like, okay, whatever.
Penn State is like an edge factory, Bruce. Every year it's Shot Robinson, it's a Da Felway a couple of years before that. They just churn out these super athletic edge you guys. And now you have ab Dual Carter a couple other guys from Penn State here. Looks like the Nitley Lions are once again just churning out those guys on the edge up front on defense.
Yeah, and it's again they've had They've had so many come through there and they're all you know, I feel like they're kind of similar in terms of, like, you know, whether it's Michael Parsons or somebody who's kind of like Micah Parsons, and you just kind of go through it. In this case, you know, I look, I think James Franklin has recruited a lot of big time athletes. We'll see what Abdul Carter does. Is he transitions, you know, from linebacker to defensive end. I mean, people there do make do make some Micah Parsons comparisons. I mean, he was a guy last year that you know, he's about the same size as Chop and he's running in the four fours and you know, twenty two and I think it's twenty two to four for the GPS numbers. I Mean the reason why they were not like a top ten team, I think is because, you know, last year, because the offense when they played elite teams just got bogged down. Now they Franklin made brought in a different offense coordinator, Andy koto Nikki. I mean he's got a really good rep and done a lot of really good things. We'll see how We'll see how it goes from this point on. But defensively, I mean, Manny Diaz was a defense coordinator. Now he's the head coach at Duke. Tom Allen comes in. He's a really good defensive coach. I think they will be very good on defense again.
Number sixteen Thorp Griffith, a guy that I've watched the past couple of years at Harvard. He now takes his game to Louisville, which, if he plays well, is going to help his draft stock. He was always great as a potential eight round pick. But you mentioned how he's three hundred and twenty pounds. When you watch the film, the guy plays like a three technique tackle in a sense that he's quick, he's agile, he's mobile, he moves incredibly well. He's not just a big guy in the middle of the line that takes up space. This guy, Thorp Griffith, he's very athletic.
He is. I mean, he was a standout wrestler in high school in New Hampshire. Also was a youth hockey star, so I mean he's got different sports backgrounds where that athleticism kind of carries over. He is a weight room beast. I think the big key for him is now as he makes the move, you know, just basically see it translate against much better offensive lineman you know around him, and also there's good talent around him. I mean there's an edge rusher that Louisville has who's a big time you know, I think it's probably I would not be surprised if he's a top one hundred pick there. So I don't think. You know, we've seen Louisville with some guys, right, yeah, Diab a few years ago, they've had They've had some freaky athletes, but Thor in terms of just weight room strength and just mauling guys. I mean that that was a problem in the ivy leagues. We'll see, you know, if he can do similar in the ACC.
Ashton Gillette is the other defensive end that you were mentioning from Louisville that just creates havoc. And now having a guy like Griffith play on the inside, I think it's just going to make you let that much of a better player.
Yeah. I mean, he's a South Florida kid. He was a big time weight room kid. He's been on the Freaks List before. There's a big time weight room kid coming out of like the Boca area, Bocaaton area and he's been really good. You know, I think I'm actually surprised he has not gotten more attention given how productive he has been. Louisvio last year played Florida State in the ACC title game. But I just feel like sometimes some of those ACC players, even though it's you know, been a Power five and now Power four conference, unless you're at Florida State or Clemson, you tend to fly under the radar, right Like Peyton Wilson was a you know, if he didn't have the injury history, but he going into the draft, but he was an amazing player. And while yeah, and so you know, again, I think Ashton is one of those guys. I'm not saying he's he's going to be a top thirty pick, but I think he'll test really well and he's going to make a ton of plays this year.
All right, I want to go to number seventeen on your list, the guy that in very early mock draft, so do you have him as the top FO four player in the class. That's James Pierce, the defensive end slash edge player out of Tennessee. Talking to the coaches there and the people around the country, is that how he's generally viewed as one of these guys that could be the first overall pick if everything goes right for him.
Maybe. I mean he's interesting in that I talked to somebody who'd been in Knoxville, one of the scouts just last week, and he was like, you know, he was two hundred eight pounds when he got there, and he was up to I think two forty eight when the scout was there middle of last week. I mean, he can run and run and run. The question had been just how big was he? Well, now he's almost two hundred and fifty pounds. Now we'll see if he can stay there. If he is he two forty eight you know, at the beginning of camp and then he ends up at two thirty eight you know into the season, who knows, but no one questions. I mean, he makes a play in the bowl game and they're against the Iowa and it's a pick six. The GPS numbers on him were crazy. It's like and it almost doesn't look like he's even running that fast, but they are like numbers of a top wide receiver. Again, and he's bigger now, but still I think he should be in that discussion. You know, a top ten pick I don't, you know, it would be interesting if he'd be the first pick in the draft. But he can run and he really had a breakout year last year, and I think there's a lot to like there.
Number twenty two and twenty three, you got back to back receivers on opposite ends of the of the country, and they've got basically opposite games. You got to Kwan Felton, Norfolk State transfer, who goes back for a six year, who's more of your downfield, explosive, vertical threat. And then you have a player to Toria McMillan, who you mentioned earlier, who's the bigger, more dominant game possession, possession receiver type of player who I think McMillan could go very early. But it's gonna be Filton, who I think is going to raise the eyebrows at the combine with the super fast time.
Yeah, Felton, super explosive, you know. And it's interesting because Kyron Drones, who was the first year started last year a quarterback, another freaky athlete. I mean, he's like, he looks like a linebacker. I remember he was a Baylor before and I remember seeing him in warmups. He wasn't the starter and I was like, man, that guy looks like he'd be a linebacker. And they're like he could. He could be anything he wants. And he's a smart kid who went in there and they got way better as the year went on. And you know, Felton is one of they have some really good receivers. They had a really good receiver who started his career at Old Dominion, got hurt last year, only played like two games and he's back, and like they have big athletic receivers. Temac. You know, if people have not seen him, I mean, he is a special player. Jed Fish told me when I was doing Freaks List, he was like, he's the biggest freak athlete I've seen it. Jedfish has been in the NFL for a long time in coaching. His ball skills are incomparable, right, I mean, he was a top level volleyball player, great basketball player. He's not quite six ' five, he's six four and change two hundred and ten pounds and his timing and it's just remarkable. You can watch. You know, we talked about Travis Hunter earlier. I mean, he's got a touchdown on Travis Hunter in the red zone. There's nothing Travis Hunter can do to stop him. I mean, like he is a special player. I don't know how fast he will time. He might be four four nine, he might be four five five. I don't know he You know, when I talked to one of the strength coaches who used to be there and is now at Washington, he was like, he came in he was a nineteen mile per hour guy. Now he's like twenty one to nine. So he's definitely progressed. He's not going to even the film will tell you he's a forty inch vertical jump guy. Guys who coached him like, oh, yeah, he's verticals forty He's like no. When I talked to Tedoro about a month ago, he's like, no, it's like up to thirty four inches and it was like thirty one before. He was like, it's all my timing. People think much, you know, and it's like, also, I think some of that. He's a volleyball player. So you if you watch film of you know, volleyball player spike in the ball, you know they have crazy ability to ascend off of like their plant foot and just you know, come up out of the ground. And that's not a vertical jump, right, because it's different to run up and do it. I mean, I can't say enough you know, like positive things about what kind of playmaker he is. Again, I mean they trust in him so much. I think he's one of I would say he's one of the five best players in college football right now.
Wow, all right, that's something to keep an eye on. You know, you talk to Rus about it being cyclical with the defensive lineman in the draft, So I'm going to the running back position now. We didn't see a running back going last year's draft until second half of a round number two with Jonathan Brooks and who's coming off an ACL injury. You have two running backs between twenty and thirty. You got a cup more in your top fifty five, including Ashton jon Day from boy State, which I've watched. He's a lot of fun to watch. What do you think of the running backs groups on your list? And if that classes, you think gonna look a little bit better this year than it did last year.
Yeah. Nick Singleton is at Penn State is definitely a size, speed, kind of freaky guy. You know, he had a more productive freshman year in twenty twenty twenty twenty two than he did last year in terms of I think it was averaging seven yards of carry as a freshman than last year it was like four and a half. But again the offense kind of bogged down. I thought for them, he's really gifted. Ashton genty from Boise State is a great all around running back. I suspect as you get closer to the you know, the draft process, people are going to marvel at his all around skills. You know, he is, he's really good. He's not even twenty one yet, so he couldn't he couldn't go to Mountain West Media days because they had it in a casino in Vegas that you had to be at least twenty one to get in. From Boise State, it decided to him separately and to get that visibility. But he's a really, really good player, Like they could make the playoff and it would be a big part would be because he's so special. I mean, he's he's a great all around running back. And again his numbers are really good testing wise, but he is, he's such a great receiver and I think he's such a such a complete back. He'll be fun to watch this year.
The other two running backs, real Tony Real quick. The other two running backs on your list was Caden Fvegan, the big guy at like two fifty that you guys do with Derrick Henry comparisons in the right up and then I'm gonna butcher this basual Tutin from Virginia Tech.
Yeah, Tootin's super explosive. You know, forty inch vertical guy four three two, uh forty is not no one there as big as as Fagan. Fagan is. Like when I talked to Brett Bielma, they were, you know, talking about their comparing his measurables to Derrick Henry, and they match up really well in terms of what they what they've seen him do and what Henry did in the combine process. I he is that big, And Bilma told me a story goes when we were recruiting him, I told everybody in our program, do not mention one word about defense. He is a running back because a lot of times those guys come in and they hang on a second, you have to get out of the room. So when they when they were talking about him, it was just like, you have to you have to make sure that he does not get the idea that we're going to switch him because that's what everybody else is telling him, right, and so he had. You know, there was a runny at a catch and run earlier in the year. I want to say it was like a fifty yard run where you see that speed he's just kind of fly in for and he's a huge back. I mean, he's a legit two fifty plus. So I'm interested to see how his career kind of transitions. There Again, they think he could be a great anything, you know, but they love him as a running back and they're going to ride him.
I want to talk about two players in the bottom half of the thirties that you have. Go back to the receiver. You talked about McMillan being underrated, Bowl Collins. I mean, here's the guy who with the past years, especially last year when he was on the field, did nothing but make plays after play after play at Clemson transfers to note your Dame. You watch the film Collins makes plays. You read your article on about what a freak you know, what a good athlete he is. If you talk to NFL scouts and they have a free agent grade on this guy, I just don't understand.
You want. I think some of it might have been consistency issues. Maybe you know how well does did he consistently catch the ball before? I don't. It's interesting because his numbers are really really high level, you know, from what the coach that Notre Dame gave me. And that's the area where they got to take a big step up. They bring in Riley Leonard, who's really good athlete himself, the duke quarterback who's banged up last year, but he can run. And if Notre Dame is going to be a team that can get in the playoff and make some noise, they need somebody to emerge as a go to, you know, a difference maker outside and maybe he can be it. I mean, physical tools are there, it's just I think the consistency to really be that guy. But there's some wow stuff there. I mean, again, they lost some good receivers you know, from last year, and they didn't have a lot of depth outside. He is. I think he was a big get for them and we'll see, we'll see what what he what he can give them this year because they really need that pass game to get going. They have an interesting Week one game they're gonna play. Mike Elko is a new coach, at Texas A and M. He was the defensive coordinator there and then he went to Duke and did terrific. You know, he's a new Jersey guy. He knows Riley Leonard better than anybody because he was his coach at Duke the last couple of years. I think most people are assuming that Notre Dame will win that game, but that's that's not going to be easy.
I want to give the offensive line some love here, Bruce. You have two guys in your top ten, Jaden Roberts out of Alabama and Iowa. Big surprise developing a good center, like we haven't seen that before. Logan Jones, who's just two ninety three. There was some Linderbaum comparisons there. And then Will Campbell, I know he has teammate at LSU is pretty good too. But a lot of people think Campbell, you know, could be the first offensive lineman off the board. If you want to talk about those three guys a little bit.
Yeah, Will Campbell has been as advertised, he was a huge recruit for them at LSU and the coaches love him. They think he's the best lineman they've seen there in a long time, you know, and he was really good last year. I don't think he's given up a sack in like a year and a half. I think he If you told me he was a top three pick this year, it wouldn't surprise me. I really think he's he's that good all around, especially based on what the what the coaches at LSU, the way they talk about him. Jayden Roberts might be the strongest guy in college football. You know, it's just like the strength numbers are insane for him. He's also like eighteen percent body fat. He's in the you know, three hundred and twenty five pound range. I mean, he's a really really good football player. The third one, you know, Iowa, As you said, I mean, whether it's worse, whether it's Lindenbaum. I mean when I talked to Kirk Farns, who you know, blind guy at trade who knows it probably better than any head coach I think, at least in college football. You know the thing, he just kind of rose raving about Logan Jones and he compared him to Lindenbaum. And he was like, you know, based on how he moves and how he plays, you would have thought he was a high school wrestler. He actually wasn't. He was a great, you know, all around athlete though, and the numbers for him for the last couple of years inside the Iowa inside the Iowa Strength program have have been really eye popping. So I thought I had no problem putting him in as a top ten guy. He's not. You know, if he was probably ten pounds bigger, I think that would probably make him a lot more attractive right now in terms of that because he was a he's been more of a developmental guy, you know, having been a D lineman then moving over. But I think he had a good first year and we'll see, you know, how he progresses. He had he was coming off some injury in January, so some of the testing didn't happen this year. But you know, Kirk ference can't say enough good things about him.
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I'm Gonna stay on the offensive line Number thirty nine, one of my favorite guys in the country, armand Membo of the right tackle for the Missouri Tigers he's gonna be guard in the NFL. But when you watch this guy, he's big, well, he's wide, he's strong, but he also moves very well. And you talk about his numbers, not only his strength numbers, but his ten yard time and his athletic numbers. I mean, here's a guy who's got, as far as I'm concerned, scheme, versatility and next level. He can play god as in a power gap scheme because he's got the strength. You could also use him in his own blocking scheme because he's able to get out quickly on the second level and take minebackers out of the action.
Yeah. He I mean, and they have been really excited about him for a while. Last year was a breakout year from MISSOO. They obviously finished the year they beat Ohio State in a big bowl game and that was huge for that program. He's going to test very well. You know, he was a guy who had multiple like he was played a lot of soccer growing up, and I think you see kind of that athleticism translate, you know. And you know, Brandon Jones, the old line coach, has been talking him up to me since he got there from you know, he was the former O line coach at Houston, and he had some really good players there, And this one again, I agree with you. He's a guy. You know, he may have the length to even play at right tackle. I know he's not the tallest, but there's a lot of stuff because his athleticism is so good, and they really they're really big believers in him as a talent because he's just a really, really smooth athlete.
You have two guys, Bruce in your top forty from these two programs, but you can talk about them generally. How do you think the passing games and who might emerge from the Alabama and LSU programs this year? You know, LS, you and all the guys graduate last year Alabama Jermaine Burton kind of came along as they went along. He got drafted on Day two of the NFL Draft. You know, how do you see those two passing attacks evolving and who might emerge from those groups that could be an impact in the NFL Draft in April.
Yeah, first for LSU because you obviously had the Heisman Trophy winner and then you had two first round receivers and one of you guys obviously are going to see a lot of or seen a lot.
Of By the way, he is pretty damn special. Watching him every day in practice, he is Unbelievablelakue Neighbors, Holy cow.
Yeah, it's you know, just to stay on him for two seconds. Like I remember doing the one of the draft articles I did where I'm talking to two different receivers coaches in the NFL and they were like, oh, he's number one on our board ahead of It surprised me because, like, you know, Marvin Harrison Junior was such a complete receiver. But I think people are like, yeah, he doesn't have like the juice that Neighbors has, you know. And again I'm sure if you ask twenty guys, they all twenty wouldn't have set Neighbors obviously, but there was that kind of like wow factor to him at LSU. So the one of the guys who was a holdover from that group who came in when Neighbors came in. Chris Hilton was a high level track guy and you know, I you know, know t J. Huschmanzada out here, you know, longtime NFL receiver trains guys. He had Hilton and Hilton he was like, he's running it in four to nine and you see some serious explosiveness from him. The new quarterbacks Garrett nus Meyer's dad, Doug, former NFL quarterback who's been in the NFL, the coach a long time now with the Eagles. He's a really talalthy quarterback and sling it around really good. Got a little bit of the gun slinger kind of vibe to him. So I think the biggest thing with him is taking care of the ball and not you know, being careful with turnovers. But he's really good. I mean he I think he has a chance to have a big, big season. You know, they they lost two great receivers. But as we said, you know, and I you know, John, you you referenced this before, and it's right. It's not just Will Campbell there. That's a really good offensive line. You know, they have talent on the other side of the line. You know, they have experience, and so I think the offense is going to be really good. That's not the question mark there. I mean. Nuss Meyer ended up leading them to a comeback win against against Wisconsin in the bowl game. I think they were down fourteen and he rallied them and that was you know, Neighbors wasn't in there in the second half. I mean, I don't you know they were it was like the new guys kind of going. So I think they'll be really good. Alaban was going to be I'm fascinated to see Kalen de Boor comes in there. We saw he had as explosive in offense as anybody last year with Pennix and those three receivers that he had in a really offensive line. And now he inherits Jalen Milroe, who's super dynamic as an athlete, has a strong arm and a really good work ethics. So we'll see how that picks up. You know, I think what they had, which was hard to kind of come off of. They had like a historic run of receivers under Nick Sabe and then you know they had the four at one point where obviously DeVante Smith was the headliner, but you know, the other guys were terrific too, and then last year there was a you know, it was noticeable drop off. You know, even Jamis and Williams from before he transferred in was obviously special athletically. We'll see how it picks up. They have some young receivers. I know they're really excited, but they're really really young and two.
Of their best receivers transferred out once we were playing in Texas this year, Isaiah Bond, I want to go deep into your list. Ty French now at West Virginia. I remember watching this cap when he played at Gordon Webb and at the time, I mean, you look like almost a safety size linebacker the way he played, making plays all over the place, his range, where he pursued the action. Read your article and the athletic numbers on this guy is off or off the chart. And obviously coming from Guard to Webb who nobody watches play, No one's going to know about Ty French at West Virginia.
Yeah, it was a dominant player there. Neil Brown, the head coach Westerner, I talked to you know last night actually, and we were talking about some other guys and we talked about him. He's like, he's a really, really good player. He's going to test great. I think they're really excited about him, you know. He I think, you know, I wonder if in terms of the NFL side of it, will he come across as a little bit of a tweener. Now, I think tweener seems like it's more of an issue if you're looking at somebody as a top fifty pick as opposed to once you get further down. But he's a really, really explosive athlete and he makes a ton of plays, and I think, you know there, I think the question is, you know, where does he fit in a certain defense? But I think he's going to be a big problem. You know we were talking about, you know, I have Penn State West Virginia right out of the gate. That is a chance to be a kind of coming out party for him. I think for again Gardner Web guy. It's not like Gardner Webb hasn't had any you know, I've had a couple of Gardner Web Freaks Liss guys in the past, but he's one that I think now has a chance to make a splash.
At that point, I should have warned you about this question before I asked it. Bruce, I'm going to go back to last year's Freaks list. The Giants have a guy named Elijah Chapman in Camp Baby Bison, and he's listened to six feet tall. I'd stod next time with him wearing cleets. Dude ain't six feet tall. But I talked to Andre Patterson, who's a longtime NFL defensive line coach the other day, and he said, keep in mind this is a room with Dexter Lawrence in it, that Chapman is the strongest guy in his room as a rookie, and he's been flashing all over camp. So I'm going to make you go back put your thinking cap on the last year. What can you tell me about Elijah Chapman?
You know, Elijah Chapman had I hate to do this, you know, I feel like I'm guilty becase I'm gonna do it twice in the podcast. But they're you know, sometimes you get really short, undersized interior guys and if they're super explosive and twitchy, they you know, they're the poor man's Aaron Donald, right or they're or at least they're the poor man's Elijah Cansey, you know. And this guy, I think he's probably strong, stronger than Elijah. I mean. And when I talk to people at SMU, they were like, you have to have this is you know, it might have been even two years ago where he was that way, and it was like you wonder what he was gonna be in the NFL because you think, okay, he can help in special teams. Is he a guy who somebody would make as like a short yardage fullback because he's so strong and so explosive, Like there's a lot of stuff you can do with them. I'm I'm not surprised that he has created some buzz with the Giants. I am surprised you said what you just said, because Dexter Lewentz is like seven are sixty pounds bigger than him.
Legitimately, yes, Cyan's.
Compared to him, But I'm not surprised he's created a lot of buzz because he's a pretty special athlete in his own right.
I asked you about the last guy in your list. I'm glad to see him make the list. Brett Gabbert. And that name sounds the familiar to a lot of viewers, yet it is the it is the little brother of Blaine Gabbert. I mean, this is a guy. When he's on the field, he shows a lot of skills, got a good arm, he's mobile. But the guy just can't stay Hell, they can't stay on the field. Went back to Miami will Howe for another season. Hopefully it works out for him this year.
Yeah, and he had to go back. I mean he so last October late October, they're six and one, Toledo's six and one, and they're playing a game and he breaks his leg and it's gruesome. Chuck Martin is the head coach there. He told me, I went out on the field and it's like a little kid at a her move. You're saying, don't look at don't look, don't look, and he goes. I peeked down and I got noxious, and I was like, why did I do that? And when they basically gave Gabbart a twelve to sixteen month timetable for his recovery, wow, he was like, I'm making it back. This is going to be my He's a six year guy, this is going to be my last year of college football. I'm making it back for the opener. And so part of why he's on the Freaks list is his his his resilience and toughness to get back. He's already back at practice. He told me he will be the starter when I open. I think the day is like instead of twelve to sixteen month, it's like three hundred and fifteen days from the time he got hurt to that. And Tony Wright, because he had a broken collar bone. The year before, he missed about half the season. You know, he's not like his brother in terms of like I remember, I remember Blaine. He's like a lead eleven quarterback. He's big. I mean, I don't know, I'm trying to remember. He's probably every bit of six four two twenty and he could really run. You know, his brother's probably like three inches shorter. And I imagine at some point he will be a coach if he wants to be a coach. And I want to see, you know, like they're a good team and he's a great leader, and everybody's kind of kind of wowed by his toughness and his unselfishness and all those things. And you know, he told me when he was laying on the on the ground, he goes, I remember he was. He was like, I was not worried about me. I'll be fine. I just felt really bad that my family and friends would all come in to see this game, you know, or what they were thinking, knowing I was there on a broken leg with the bone sticking out of the skin.
Yeh, final question from me, Bruce, and then and then I'll let Tony wrap us up here. I like asking you this it's open ended, so I apologize for that ahead of time. But no one's more plugged into college football talks more people than you do. What's the underrated storyline, Lauren? College football this year that you don't think enough people are talking about that you think is really going to impact how this year's goes, which obviously is going to impact what happens in the NFL Draft.
I don't know if this is exact actly where you'd want me to go. But the thing that I think people don't know enough or haven't realized yet is that you know, this time of year, especially this week, you know, had the AP Top twenty five come out, and you see the top ten teams or top twenty five, but you you know, see that and you're just conditioned to think, Okay, there's gonna be a twelve team playoff, and you know that's how it's going to kind of shape off of whatever the top twenty five looks like. And that's probably not going to be the way it is because you're going to have all the ACC and the Big twelve in addition to the SEC in the Big Ten, those conference champs are going to have automatic automatic buys, and they're going to be the top four seeds. If the Big twelve is what I think it is, you may have a ten to three champ that's probably not even in the top eight, but they're going to be sitting there at number four in the poll, and and there are they will already for sure the one team that makes the twelve team playoff that started the season preseason unranked. And the reason why that is is because there are no teams outside the Power four in the top twenty five preseason top twenty five. Usually there are a couple that make that somewhere between like eighteen and twenty five. This year there aren't. Well one of those teams that's not is going to make the playoff. And I just think as people sit there and watch the course of the season, that's going to be really fascinating to see, you know, how many teams are still in play for a playoff spot.
That's a great answer.
One question about the list this year. Did you find that you had more small school players in the past same amount or less? When I say small school players, I'm talking about non FBS schools.
I have had a lot in the last couple of years, but I definitely feel like I might have had more I do. There was a few that, like, you know, it's funny because I did a second Day story after Freaks List and there's a player from and because this is like, you know, a giant's podcast, I feel like I can say this school it's like Middlebury College in Vermont. If I do most college football stuff. I didn't even think they know where Vermont is much less. We're Middlebury. And Thomas Perry is a offensive lineman who is super strong. Another guy who, by the way, was a you'll see a trend here. It was a it was a top level high school wrestler. Schools in the New England area did not even recruit him. He went to Middlebury's gone there and he started to get some buzz like Duke Manuweather, who's you know, great with o Lie guys in the process. He's been working with this kid. He had him for like five weeks and his strength numbers are really really high level. His his agility numbers are still good. He's somebody I was like on the fence on I probably should have had him on, but I wanted to at least tell his story of you know, his rise, and so I ended up doing like a separate story on him, and there's like five other guys who are like kind of look almost on the cut. As you know, as you guys had asked me about Gabbert, I definitely wanted to have Gabert on there this year, and I thought it was a good way to kind of end. It's actually like a story within the Freaks List, but you know, I could have easily done one hundred and twenty guys, and so I wanted to at least bring some of those other small school guys that I didn't have room for. Like, I mean, we didn't talk about this, but on one of the guys in the Freakslist, there's a really really good offensive tackle from William and Mary. It's two hundred and forty pounds out of high school and had William and Mary offered him and a school in Virginia I'd never heard of was the other school. And he's gonna test great, and they they, you know, really love what they see from this kid. It's a big, big deal that he's still there and like didn't get poached by a power of five school offering him a ton of money to come play for them.
Grant Charles Grant is the offensive tackle from William and Mary and he's already graded. He's already predict projected by Scott to be a day to prospect. So we'll be seeing him in the postseason, probably at the Senior Bowl.
I like it. Yeah, he's definitely one that like everybody loves. He's got good laying him. He's not three hundred and twenty pounds. He's now up to three hundred, but again he was two forty in high school.
That's great, Bruce. Before we say goodbye, here, tell the folks everything else you have gone on where they can find you on Fox, what else you have in the athletic and if you want to, you can give a clue as to how difficult it is putting this thing together and how time consuming is. I think we all appreciate it when it comes out. Every year. We talk to you twice. You talk to you now, We talk to you when you have your little you know, inside college football, mock draft type of thing before the draft. But just tell people what you're doing where they can find you, and then kind of how you put this thing together every year.
Yeah, it's I spent quite a bit of time on it and a lot, a ton of phone calls and texts and everything, but it's it's a you know, it's something I love working on. I feel like it's it's the best way for me to get ready for the season. I feel like it's also a great way to spotlight a lot of the guys who you know, come through the Senior Bowl, you know, East West, you know, process to kind of get out in front of it. I mean, I'm grateful to a lot of the Scouts and nfls who have you know, I can share notes with the kind of and kind of talk through some stuff. I mean, it's my favorite thing to do. Uh, it's my favorite thing to work on, I should say, you know, in terms of that. And you know, if anybody it's like just check out the Freaks List. You can find it somewhere on the Athletic or find it on my somewhere on my social media. You know, I've tweeted out a bunch of different links because it's just one of those things where there's like one hundred and one different stories in it. You know, like there's a ton of guys, Like we can't talk about every single guy in there. We would be doing this for like three days, you know kind of thing. And that's what I love about it because there's just so many different ways that people can can find it.
Yeah, and your colleague Dan Brugo is don a good job. He's putting his preseason list out there too. And then totally why don't I tell the folks when they can find your preseason stuff as well before we say goodbye here.
Obviously sports Sketa going through all the conference team by team with rating all the NFL prospects. Some guys that are going to be top one hundred picks, some guys that write now great is undrafted selections, but that will change as we saw with Jayden Daniels last year. Who a year ago when we were doing this this show, you always projected to be a fifth round pick ends up as a second pick of the draft.
And that's why they play the games. And Bruce Fox Sports one Fox College Football too.
Yeah, Big New Yeah, I'm on with the Big New kickoff show. Like I said, we have we have some great games out of the gate. We actually have I'm in studio for a week zero game. We have New Mexico against Montana State. Montana State's a good FS really good FCS program. So can't wait for the season. The games are almost.
Here, Bruce, thanks so much. That's your first episode of Draft season, brought to you by Moodies for Tony, for Bruce, I'm SCHMLK. We'll see you next time. Everybody,