Patriots Draft CountdownPatriots Draft Countdown: WR, QBs and RBs Spotlight Day 4 of Combine, Dane Brugler on Potential Pats Picks and Fits
Tune-in as Mike Dussault and Evan Lazar discuss what stood out from defensive line workouts last night. Wide receivers, quarterbacks and running backs were the spotlight of Day 4 of the Combine with WR Tet McMillan and top prospects speaking to the media today. Plus, we sit down with The Athletic's Dane Brugler to discuss potential Patriots picks and fits.
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We're coming to you from day four the NFL Scouting Combine here in Indianapolis. This is Patriots Draft Countdown presented by bud Light. Bud Light Easy to Drink, Easy to Enjoy, the official beer sponsor of the New England Patriots. And the workout started last night. Evan, we're really getting into the meat of the combine. I think for a lot of people they think this is when the combine actually starts. Like I saw a lot of tweets of like, oh, the Combine's finally starting Thursday, and like we've been here for like three days already doing interviews.
But this is when it gets interesting.
Certainly, guys perform well, other guys choose not to work out as well. We actually got a chance finally we went and sat inside the what is it the RCA Dome, not anymore?
What do we call it? Now you've been there before.
Now you're putting me on this spot, Lucas. Of course, I like blanked as soon as you asked me that question.
I blanked as soon as I thought of it. But yeah, pretty cool experience, you know, getting to see it. We all watch it on television plenty, and so to see the drills go through it was pretty pretty interesting. So, just off the top, what were your takeaways from that first set of workouts with the defensive linemen and linebackers.
Yeah, I think obviously when you get into the actual athletic testing, you don't really need to see that, like you can just get the number. But it was really cool to be inside the stadium to watch the drills on the field.
You just get a different feel for you.
You can hear the pop on the pads and you can see the footwork a little bit better and that was cool. And I can understand now if you're a scout, you have to be there like that, you have to be able to see it, and there is a difference. It's almost like a game, right, There is a difference to being there in person. Now in terms of the workouts, I think right off the top of the draft, it was just a little bit disappointing the amount of guys that didn't work out that are going to be in the conversation for the Patriots at four. Overall, you know Abdual Carter, we know about the foot situation, that was an injury related situation. Mason Graham holding off to his pro day, Jaylen Walker holding off to his pro day. MIKEL Williams has a tweak of a hamstring. I believe it was that caused him to sit out this yesterday. So all the guys that we were talking about in terms of that range didn't really participate. The one guy that maybe we could talk about in that range that had a great workout was obviously Shamar Stewart from Texas.
A and M.
A lot of people were expecting that to happen. And there's an old someone told me a scouting term, don't count it twice. So if you knew that Shamar Stewart was a great athlete, this doesn't make it any right, Like we already knew he was a unicorn athlete, So don't count it twice. But at the same time, you look at the traits, you look at the production in terms of the advanced metrics like pressures and disruption and all that kind of stuff. He didn't have the sacks, but he had all of that in his favor. So maybe a little rich at four overall for the Patriots, but if they do execute a trade down, I think Shamar Stewart in the conversation.
Yeah, So we've also got an interview coming up with Dan Brugler, who provided a little bit more.
Insight on Shamar Stewart.
Obviously an outstanding day for him that certainly improved his status today. We've moved on in the interview portion, at least with wide receivers and the running backs and the quarterbacks as well.
Teed McMillan another piece, not going to run.
That was something I was kind of interested to see and probably not surprising that he chose to delay that or perhaps put it off entirely. But we did get a chance to talk to some of these receiver options. Not a great class this year, and again Dane provide a little bit more insight on that as well. What'll your takeaways here from this morning with the wide receivers and the running backs.
Definitely disappointed and honestly, like small Sea, concerned that Teed McMillan doesn't want to run here at the combine. That signals to me that some of the concerns about his top end speed and explosiveness might be legitimate. If he goes out, like Dane said, and runs a four or five five, then that's going to hurt his stock, and he doesn't want to do that. If he knew he was gonna run well and kind of take people by surprise there, then he'd be running. So that's a little bit of a concern to me. I already had some concerns with him in terms of that on tape that he's not exactly the most dynamic mover, and yeah, he's got great body control and great size, but you worry about separation, especially second third level separation with Ted McMillan, that maybe it's a little bit rich, you know, for four overall for that type of player. The other guys that I thought were impressive were maybe a little bit further down the board that we can get to as well, but just off the top again, like I still don't really understand what's going on with Luther Burden and why he seems to be falling out of the first round, and a lot of mock drafts and things like that. I still see him as a really talented player, top twenty, top twenty five talent in this class.
So we'll see what he does.
I believe he is going to test and maybe he has a great workout on Saturday and that changes everything for him.
Yeah, so really deep running back class this year. A lot of people have been talking and about. Of course, asked in gent from Poise State atop the list. Another guy that kind of had that Georgia I'm already in the league vibe as well, would point him out. But I think that there's some good depth and there's just it seems to me like this is a great year. Third round, fourth round, take a flyer on one of these guys. Patriots obviously have two running backs under contract as of right now with ramondre Stevenson and Antonio Gibson. Pretty good place to start, but I think it's a spot that they could still probably use some reinforcements in some young depth.
One hundred percent, and this definitely feels like a third or fourth round pick. They have those two third rounders and then another pick at the top of the fourth round where you can find at least an RB one and a half right like a b you know, it's a Remondre Stevenson being your a back in the committee. So I don't know if you're necessarily gonna find Ashton Gentry is kind of like, you know, a lead back right that's gonna be a cornerstone of your offense. But in third or fourth round, you can get a really solid, you know, backup running back to Remandre or even somebody that can push Formandre if he doesn't fix the fumbling issues and ball security concerns. A couple of guys that stand out to me and I'm looking forward to watching a workout. Quin Shawn Jenkins from Ohio State, I think is a really fun player, really explosive player, can catch the ball out of the backfield too and use that dynamic moving ability all over the field. I dislike those types of guys at that spot, like they kind of have a road grader with Hermandre guy that's going to pick up the tough yards and run the ball between the tackles. So adding somebody with some juice might might be something that is appealing. And then Devin Neil from from Kansas, I think is a guy that if you want to go more power back raable style but has some juice to get the edge. And I had a really great workout at the Senior Bowl or practice week at the Senior Bowl. So those were a couple guys that stood out to me at the podiums. And then you know with Neil down in Mobile a couple of months ago. So I look at those two guys as a nice possibility for the Patriots there. Yeah, Patriots quarterback not a need necessarily, but do have to mention should Her Sanders cam Ward.
You know, Shoulders look great. They were fantastic. I think they should go one two right draft. Somebody needs. I mean the way Shitur Sanders was talking, it was the confidence of his father.
I mean it was the Dion Sanders. You know.
I heard him say history repeats itself and I've you know, we're restored two programs and I'll be able to do that in the NFL as well. He does not lack confidence at all. I enjoyed listening to him talk. Yeah, he was fun to listen to.
And I was actually talking to somebody about these two quarterbacks and we were talking about Josh Allen and how Josh Allen has broken all of our brains when it comes to a valleying quarterbacks, And we kind of talked ourselves into Drake May in the same sense because you feel like you can fix mechanics a little bit more now than maybe we felt five ten years ago because of guys like Josh Allen, and I look at a player like cam Ward and think there's so much raw tools there and upside with his arm talent, and maybe if you get him more refined like a Josh Allen, like a Drake May, you know he's gonna blossom into the league into a great quarterback. Whereas with Shador, I see like a four quarterback, Like I see a guy that already has all that because he's been coached by his father his entire life, and Tom Brady a little bit too, and like he already has all those details in minutia. So now you worry about Kenny, how much better is he really going to get at the next level, because he's kind of tapped out a little bit. But you will feel really comfortable about him stepping in, handling the spotlight, handling what the pressure that comes with being a franchise quarterback and being good enough that if he's surrounded by enough weapons if he goes to the Giants and he has Molikue neighbors and they keep stacking talent on that roster, then you could see him being an effective point guard of an offense. I'm just not sure he's an elevator of an offense, but he might be an elevator of a culture, which is what he tried to tell us when he said that he fixed two programs. I'll give him Jackson State, like Colorado. You know, they're much better than they were. I don't know if he fixed Colorado, Like we're not in college football playoffs or anything like that in Boulder, but I can see where he's coming from.
So we had an opportunity to sit down with Dane Brugler from The Athletic, who writes the Huge Monster of the Beast, appropriately named that we all excitedly wait for. I mean, unfortunately it comes out in like April, so you feel like you kind of know everything and then all of a sudden, you just get this huge bible dropped on you with so much detail, and it's I think it's a great kind of finishing touch to the draft. So really cool to get your opportunity to sit down with Dane here's what he had to say. All right, we're excited to be joined now by Dan Brugler from the Athletic the producer and what do you call you like, I don't know.
It's not just an author.
It's more than that of the Beast, which we all wait for every year, and you know, we're all so grateful for all the hard work you put in.
I got to start off with the question I'm sure you get, just what is.
Your process like over the course of the year putting that big the Beast together?
Well, it takes the full year, and even more so than that because inevitably you pick up different tidbits for the future class.
And so yeah, it's a process.
And you know, at my heart, I'm a draft fan, so I want to make something that I would want to read and consume and really enjoy, and so detail is too small. I'm a big believer in to know where these guys are headed, you need to know where they came from and so understand their journey, understand everything that got them to this point the doorstep of the NFL, and that helps you understand them as people. And then of course the analysis part, you know, just making sure you're studying the tape, talking to scouts, talking to teams, understanding what they do well it'll translate what won't translate.
So certainly a process.
And yeah, we're down to this last month, which gives me anxiety to think about. But yeah, excited to share it with everybody here at early April.
Now we're excited to get it for sure. Just from a Patriots perspective. Fourth overall, I think we're all kind of in the same position where we're you know, maybe Hunter or Carter to fall, probably not. Does will Campbell make sense? There is there someone else? Is there a trade down? I mean it's last year was so straightforward with quarterback at three.
Now it seems a little bit more uncertainty.
What are your thoughts on the Patriots position A fourth overall?
Yeah, and I think I think there's a very good chance the cam Ward is the number one pick, if where we are right now, with what we know right now, I.
Think he's the favorite to be that number one pick. Now to who who? You know?
It could be the Titans, could be the Giants, could be another team. And then after that it gets interesting. I think I think the Browns one out of there. I think they'd love the trade back. Do they have a trade partner? Who knows? But I would agree with you that the chances of Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter falling before are probably not great.
They're not probably not high.
And then, okay, what direction do you pivot and say you can't trade back, say you're stuck at four. Is there an offensive lineman you love enough to take a four? Whether that's Will Campbell from LSU? Could you take armand Membu from Missouri that early? Which of these offensive linemen do you like the best? And then besides the offensive line, is there someone else? Could it be a mc A team Maac from Arizona, who unfortunately is not gonna be working.
Out here this week.
But could it be another one of those players that you feel like, all right, we drop him into our on our team and he's gonna make the biggest impact for us.
You know, I don't.
We can get caught up too much in need and you know, yeah, of course need more help a receiver. Of course, they only need more help on the offensive line. When you're drafting top five, you can't think like that. You have to think about for the next four or five years. Who's going to make the greatest impact. That could be a pass rusher, that could be somebody else on the defensive line. So for the Patriots, you just you got to list your top four players in this draft who are going to impact your roster for the next five years. You're guaranteed to get one of those guys, and yeah, it'll be interesting.
I wanted to ask you about you mentioned t Max not going to work out. It seems like that's that's pretty prevalent right now, especially with the top guys in this draft. You feel like it's more than it's been in the past. And what are teams saying about the future of this event in terms of the athletic testing.
Yeah, I was talking with the scout yesterday about this and he seemed very confident that, you know, because there's a lot of players that do want to work out. There's a lot of players that look at this as an opportunity to just go show out and show what they can do. Because there's the peak athletes, the top guys at each position, should I think feel like they have a little bit of leverage where I can only hurt.
Myself, you know, an ash and Gentee tea Mac.
You know, if T Mac goes out there, it runs a four or five five, you know, is he hurting himself at that point? But you know, there's there's different ways to think about it, because what happens when you go to your pro day and you have a stomach bug that morning. You know what happens when maybe just you don't have your best day, you stumble whatever, like you're putting all your eggs in that basket.
And this is a fast track here in Indy. So the chance to go out there and you.
Know, even if it's not the greatest time, hey just cross it off, check the box, move on. And you know, for the most part, teams aren't going to adjust their rankings based off of the littlest changes in your forty yard dash. If you know, if you like T Mac, you know you've seen him, so you know he's not gonna run a four to three.
You know he's probably a four or five two athlete and that's fine. You know T.
Higgins was a four or five nine athlete in his forty yard dash, right, So it's more about focusing on the strengths, what they do well and why you love teamac as a receiver, it's not necessarily the speed, it's his ability to be a ball winner. It's the flexibility and the fluidity that he has in and out of his breaks at the catch point. Nobody over the last two years and college football has more catches of twenty plus yards than te Mac And so he's a guy that's super talented. The production is there. I think he's a top ten pick in this class when you just focus on the players available this year. Would the Patriots take him as early as four? I think at least should be in the conversation.
Before we get a little bit deeper.
I did want to ask you about Mason Graham and yesterday weighs in he's only about two hundred ninety six pounds, which checks out a little bit better than the three to twenty I think that they had at Michigan.
But I heard you on the radio in Boston.
I think it was on the Sports Hub in Boston saying he's not necessarily at Quentin Williams level prospect, but he's really good. And where do you kind of fall on Mason Graham? And do you still see him going as early as four after the weigh ins and stuff.
Yeah, I think the combine is not made for a guy like Mason Graham, you know, because he doesn't have the ideal body type. His arms are a little bit shorter. You know, he's not working out, which I don't I think he would have been fine. I don't think he would have blown it up at all. He's a guy that you watch the tape and you're like, all right, good football player, you know, but is he a Quinn Williams ascend a type of guy that's going to make turn your defensive line from good to great. That's where you know, I think there's a little bit of a question mark. And ideally, if you're picking a defensive tackle top five, that's who you want. But you know what, you can't force something that's not there. And in this class, Mason Graham is one of the best, you know, seven players in the draft. And so even though he might not be a Quinn Williams type of impact prospect, he's still a good player. I mean, you watch the film and I don't think I don't know how he could come away from watching his film and say, eh, he's okay. Like he is a he consistently disrupts, and you see that with the block deconstruction, former wrestling. The leverage. He's a leverage monster, I mean, the only way to describe him. So he can win with quickness, win with power. There's just a lot to like about the way he plays when he suits up on game.
Day this week, there'll be risers, followers.
You know, we'll kind of regroup after this as we get to the Patriots' second round pick down there, do you feel like, where's the value going to be?
What positions?
Do you have a sense of what might get kind of pushed down as maybe certain guys come up, certain guys fall. I know it's hard to say right at this point, but I think that's what we're looking at with that in the second pick.
Right, I think defensive line, because it's a deep defensive line group and not all of them are going to go in the first round, so there will be plenty of guys. You know, in Alfred Collins from from Texas who didn't have a great vertical, but you know once you watch the film and he's just consistently disruptive. He's six five, three hundred and thirty five pounds really long, So a guy like that who maybe doesn't go in the first but he's gonna be there in the second I think there's a couple of those defensive linemen that will be there where you could really bolster your depth and get a good player in this second round. Receivers tough, because you know, let's just say the Patriots go defensive line in the first what receivers are going to be there for you in the early second round? Usually we're so we're spoiled with too many receivers every year. This year is a little bit of the opposite. Say four receivers go first round. Let's say it's t Mac, It's Golden. It's like Buca and Travis Hunter, or and Burdon Luther Burton. Who's is there somebody else that you love in this class? At Jalen Royals, Jayden Higgins. I love Jalen Noel, But are any of those guys worth the pick in the early second round? That's something that I think the Patriots might struggle with finding a guy that they I mean, we could say they struggle with it last year at the top of the second round, finding a guy that you know you'll point to and say, oh, yeah, this is this is the guy we need for our offense.
Yeah, absolutely look at their receiver position a little bit. I think we're all kind of expecting trenches from the Patriots. That's when all of their decision makers have been telling us for a couple months now. So assuming like let's say they go offensive line defensive line with their first two picks. Is there any third fourth round receivers that you see as fits?
Oh?
Yeah, I think Jack Besh would would fit with he just think of he seems like a like verbal guy. The toughness of physicality, the way he plays, the mindset like Jack Besh would be a really good fit.
I mentioned Jalen Noel. I think he's gonna run really well here.
He's not the biggest guy, he's you know, five nine and a half under two hundred pounds, but he can win vertically. He can win on quick hitters and then be a threat after the catch. A big fan of Noel and what he brings, and if he were to make it to the third round, I would love that fit, even though again not do's another size, but he can still get open and make plays.
Elika aoman or from Stanford. He's interesting.
You know, he's still relatively new to football, still learning in a lot of ways. But he's built well, he has talent. Eager to see what he runs, because on tape he looks more like a four or five guy. But you know what, if he were able to get into four fours, that might change the thinking with him about Okay, is he a late third brunder, Maybe take an early third round.
But he's there.
There's a lot to like with Ao Minor when you get to after the first two rounds.
Yeah, that great game against Travis Hunter a couple of years ago, and that that's one of the best wide receiver tapes I've seen out of any of these guys in this class.
And you saw it all in there. You saw speed, just a physicality. You know he was at the podium, is actually talking about that.
Oh oh you're getting put on the spot for you. Thank you. Come back in about ten minutes.
Yeah, yeah, oh, I've already had something enough.
Thank you. The timing of that was impeccable.
As always, as always as they got us last year live, we harked him down. But well, we'll keep it just to the beast at this point. Just any other players that stand out to your personal favorites, guys that he just really enjoy kind of watching this offseason.
Well, Carson Schwessinger, the linebacker from UCLA, is one of my favorites.
It's just speeding instincts.
You know, if that sounds okay for you in a linebacker, you're gonna like Carson Schwessinger. And maybe just recency bias because you know, in the stadium last night watching those guys work out, it was fun to see Schimour Stewart work.
That guy is the freak of all the freaks.
The rumor they're gonna name the combine after him after what he did yesterday. I made one five eight ten yard split at that size is ridiculous.
Von Miller's ten yard split was one five nine.
So just a context of how that burst and that elite get off and you saw that at a senior bowl, saw that on tape.
All the talk's gonna be about one and a half sacks. I get it.
But when you watch the tape, you see a more productive player because he's able to h make the quarterback move his feet, be disruptive and yeah, do you want him to get sacks. Of course, But if you're being disruptive and you're affecting the backfield action, then you're doing your job as a pass rusher. And so Schmart Stewart does that consistently. And that's why I think when it's all said and on, he's going to be somewhere in the top fifteen picks.
It's just a matter of, you know, how high does he go.
I want to ask you one last one and then we'll let you go. Tight end.
I feel like in this class we talked a lot about wide receiver and how it's not as great of a class, how much you know one how much are people talking about, well, maybe we should just take Tyler Warren instead of you know, drafting a receiver in the top ten And to who are some of those day to day three tight ends that you like?
Yeah, you could make a case, you know, say there's only twelve thirteen first runk grades in this year, this class. You could make a case that, you know, Warren's one of them. You make a case Colson Lovelin from Michigan is one of them. Again, it should come down to who's going to impact your offense the most. And if you come away thinking that it could be Tyler Warren, then hey, you owe it to yourselves to at least consider that possibility, even though a tight end that early definitely feels rich. But this is a unique draft class, very unique, and it's ironic. You know, last year was so deep and a guy like Brock Bauers, who was a top five talent in that class, falls.
All the way to thirteen.
But this year, you know, it's just not as deep, and a guy like Tyler Warren, who in Colston Lovelin, they're not quite Brock Bowers, but there still can impact the game. One of the reasons not to take a tight end early.
Is because it is deep.
Mason Arroyo or Mason Taylor, Elijah Royo, big fan of Gunner Helm from Texas. I think all those those three guys are all starters in the NFL. I think Harold fan and Junior is on his way. Not as immediate for him, but you know, you don't catch one hundred and seventeen balls in college football in a single season, and if you're not a talented receiver. So and then even in the Day three, Terrence Ferguson from Oregon is a really good player. It's a position that will stretch. And as much as I like Tyler Warren and Colston Lovelin. It's kind of the reason, like, hey, well let's get our offensive tackle now, let's get our defensive lineman now, and we can wait on tight end because we know the caliber a player that will be there for us rounds two, three, and four.
How do you get the birthdays?
That's because that's always you Google how old is somebody? And it's never right or it's never accurate. Like that's my number one question about.
Talk to the player.
I talked to the straight goes straight to the horse's mouth and say, hey, h twenty three in August, right twenty second?
Yep, okay, perfectly, because that's you know, that's it. Yeah, you would think it'd be more or easier.
A lot of schools make it easy on you, you know, because they have them and you can trust those. But yeah, I've learned over the years, Google is not the most reliable when it comes to the birth dates for the prospects.
Clarious. Well, Tim, we'll let you get back to the beast. I'm sure you got work to do. Thanks so much for sitting down with me.
Sound thanks, guys, appreciate it all.
Right, So enjoy talking to dam and can't wait to get that Beast, and if you have, if you don't subscribe to the Athletic, I think the Beast is pretty much worth it on its own, Like you don't even need anything else into the about a five hundred page document, but it's going to do it for us here at the combine. But Devan's still plenty more going on after where boots off the ground. The workouts will continue, You'll continue to do some write ups on that.
Just looking forward here to the weekend.
Of course, Will Campbell's arm link, Baby, that's gonna be the big one we're all waiting for.
But what else are you looking forward to?
Interested to watch over the next couple of days as all these guys test out.
Yeah, yesterday or on Thursday. All these days are blending together at this point. But on Thursday, Travis Hunter did say that he's going to work out with the dB, so I am interested to see what he does and how he tests and all those types of things. So I'm curious if he then comes back on Saturday and runs routes. I don't know how they're gonna do that, so that would be interesting. So I'm definitely looking forward to him and this tight end class. Like This tight end class is gonna put on an absolute show. And we talked to Dan about it. Is there an argument for Tyler Warren? Is there an argument in a trade down maybe more realistically for Colston Lovelin that no, you can't get the Marvin Harrison junior the Malik neighbors in this class at the wide receiver position, but you can't get brock Bowers right, Like, you know, is there that case to be made that that's a more effective route for the Patriots to find that dictating past catcher number one receiver?
And I can always say, like we had Gronk, like you shouldn't.
You shouldn't like look at the number one right yeah, and say, oh, like you can't build it through a tight end when we know very well in New England that you can.
So I'm excited to see those guys as well.
All right, well, that's gonna be a rap from the combine, But believe me, we are just getting started. I know this week we'll have a free agency preview video coming out, Paul Perlo will join us, and I think Evan, your first mock draft is gonna.
Courr this week. Post combine mock.
There we go, right, so all the movers and follers and shakers, Evan's got a finger on the pulse of all of that. So again, the draft is rapidly approaching, as this free agency. But we've got you covered. Plenty of content coming your way. Stick with us all spring.
