Mm from grandmothers who whispered in their baby girl in two fathers on dimly lit street corners, instructing young soldiers to always keep their eyes open. You be queen, you were fired. You will pass through centuries on the hands of your daughters. They called you wisdom. Proverbs on the backs of diamond eyed school children who growing into hymnals recited by amethyst holding urban philosophers who recited neighborhood commandments out of the windows of restored Alchemedo chariots to keep the warmth of their blood, be wise, be smart, being black, Opal Brown courts bloodstone and prayer. Be every form of jim se King told, scribe, scribe, told son, son, told wife, wife told her daughter, and daughter told the ant. This is And the ancestors told me that you would come to give wisdom thousands. They said you would come, Dropping cham Dropping jem Hey, Welcome back to another episode of the Dropping Gems podcast. I am Debbie Brown. I want to say big thank you to everyone that has shared this show that has hit me up on I g that is added to our ratings and reviews on the Apple app. Thank you so so so much for your time. Oh Today's show. Okay, so full transparency everybody. Today's show is starting a little bit different. I record this show in Hollywood, California, in a studio, and today, on my way to the show, less than fifteen minutes before I got here and got in this chair, I had a really challenging experience on my journey here, and it has chain into the course of the episode a little bit, and I'm going to have a chance to really dive into real time ALcom izing challenges with the special guests that I have for this episode. So I want to share with you something that happened, and it's actually I'm unpacking it as I'm talking about it. I was in my car and I was on the one on one freeway here in Los Angeles, and I was exiting and as I exited the freeway, I was really enjoying my day. I was listening to a playlist I like, I was feeling really grateful, and I am coming off of the ramp and merging into the road and this man in a smaller car jumps off to the side, races to get in front of me with like such a limited window, and then slams on his brake with the hopes of me maybe potentially hitting him or just being so shaken now that it was literally like that experience when the pedal has to immediately touch the floor and so the back of your car kind of pops up a little bit and everything rushes forward. And it was shocking and very scary in the moment. I'm someone that has survived, um, a tragic car accident where I was hit by a drunk driver fifteen years ago and I had to be pulled out of that car by the jaws of life. And so I'm a really, really diligent driver because of that. And so this experience thrust in me forward and I was just in shock, and I started looking around, like what is going on? The car behind me almost hit me. It had to veer over, it almost hit that car. It was just this big thing. And I look forward and there is this man in the car in front of me that did it, completely unprovoked, and now he's leaning out the window, cussing me out and throwing water bottles at me. Now, I did not cut this person off. Um. This person and I had not even been traveling next to each other during my journey, and I instantly reach over to lock my doors and he were at a stop at this point, we're at a stoplight and he gets out of his vehicle and he comes over to my car and he proceeds to say fuck you, suck my white power, white power stupid, and then spits at me and hawks the lugie onto my window. UM And in that moment and all of this really just happened, UM, I was very and I am very shaken up by it. And it's interesting because some of the things that are coming up for me is if you remember, for anyone that has been listening to this show um Sits since its inception, is that back in March or April, I had a similar experience. And I also had an experience of witnessing two men beating a woman UM on the road that they had had a traffic interaction with. And so, yeah, I'm sitting in this right now. I am excited to welcome my guest, but I wanted to share this with you and I hope to unpack this a little bit more in the episode with my guest. But you know, this moment in time that we're in, it's I think this really illustrates how there is always going to be challenged, and no matter what work we're doing, no matter how diligently we're showing up for ourselves, there were going to be other forces and other people that are unhealed that for whatever reason, are looking to disrupt your existence. Um And so that sits really really strongly for me in this moment as I experienced that and kind of sit with that in this space, and just also noticing how sometimes we still have to compartmentalize, you know, like this just happened, but you gotta go to work and you gotta do this, and you gotta do that. And so I just wanted to bring that forward. We're going to explore that a little bit more and and just what to do with those feelings of when you're feeling unsafe. That that for me was pretty darring for multiple reasons. I have had several experiences just in the last eight months of feeling deeply unprotected by men and scenarios where I have had men try to physically harm me and minimize me. And so that's coming up right now. So this episode will have joy. We are going to have some join this episode. Two. Um My guest is really a phenomenal woman, but I think that This is also a good opportunity to unpack how to re tap into joy in the midst of um also feeling deeply wronged and physically scared. So let's see where this episode takes us. And I'm so happy you're here. I'd like to share with you now and introduce my special guest, Dr Mario Bouquet, who was in New York City based psychologist, disruptor and sound bath meditation healer. Her work centers on healing wounds of intergenerational trauma for black and Indigenous people of color, holistic mental wellness, and the de colonialization of Eurocentric healing practices. I had a chance to first communicate with Dr Mariel when I was doing in i G Live for the Choper Channel and I had started following her on Instagram, and I was just really connected to her radiant joy and beauty. You can feel her through the screen. She says so many beautiful, deeply rooted uh shares, so many tools that she offers on her page, and her work really resonated with me, and it felt so connected to my heart in the way that I experienced this work and I experienced myself. So I had a wonderful chat with her on i G Live, and I was really looking forward to bringing her here into this space and really diving into her expertise in ritual and how to build ritual for ourselves and somatic practices of how to really integrate the experiences that we are having with our healing and with our joy. So I think it's also probably very very divinely put that she is my first guest after having this experience. Uh So, I want to welcome to the show without further ado, the amazing Dr Marriel Luquet. Hi, Betty, so good to be here with you, buy me with you once again. I'm so excited that we get to join in conversation again, which is always a joy for me. How lucky am I? How lucky am I? You just have the most radiant light, And I think that's why I'm like, let's let's talk about this work, because I just love the light that you emanate and the way that you teach. It's so juicy and beautiful. Jessey is the first for me and I will take that in and love upon it, and for my work to be juicy is everything, Because I I like to say, I would bring all this off very very aligned, very aligned. I love, I love. So first things. First, tell me how have the last however many months of the pandemic been for you? What is something that has come forward that may have been surprising for you or may have felt maybe are shame for you in this process of a global pandemic. Yeah, I mean the pandemic has been like it's been like the multiple pandemics, right, you know, like one layered on top of the other. And um, you know, as a mental professional, I definitely like do a lot of coping ahead, right, So thinking ahead to oh, this is about to be a year, you know, and regardless of how much I don't have at my dispose as far as like telling the future, right, like, I still, um you know, can elicit within me some sort of a centeredness and groundedness for me to be able to be fully present for the people that I serve, right, And so it's been a lot of that. It's been a lot of oh take a pause, because um, you know, this week will be election week and people will be really an utter turmoil. And the people that serve that are your you know, your your actual clients, um, which I serve a predominance almost kind of like a ninety people of color, black in indigenous people of color. And so I knew that there would be a lot that people would be carrying, and that I would be, you know, uh, the vessel upon which they would deposit, and then my cup would be have to be full, right, and and so there's all of that, like a lot of filling of cups in this year for sure, in order to um, you know, be able to be a present mind and spirit for others for sure, and for somebody like you who is a mental health professional and is also a healer and creates, creates, creates for so many people. How do you fill your cup? What does that look like for you? How does the healer heal? How does the healer heel? I just love your questions. I have to say, sacred pause on your questions, just like breathe that in UM, just so beautiful. Thank you for for framing it that way. UM. Yeah, you know, like I I'm super intentional about being able to invite in a ritualistic practice of self care, right Like I am. I Like I'm made up of like water wherever whatever, they're like cellular things that were made up of and like self care, I think that that's literally like what I am body in my body, right, um, because I do it so so much, um, and I have gotten to a point where I'd like to say it's like maybe a little a little bit of a step beyond what I envisioned for myself as far as self care and grounds in this, which is that I I start off really early in the day. My start is now anywhere from five to six am, um, And I definitely take an approximate hour and a half to two hours of the top of my day to act really fill my cup in a very virtualistic manner. Yeah, it matters to me, you know, to be able to do that because look at what the world has for you ahead of you right in your day. Um, that is unprecedented, precedented, and we just don't know, right. So it's important for me to to start off with balance. So the things that I do at the top of my day, UM, I start off with you know how people do gratitude journals, like I actually do it like something that is more kind of in the mind. Right. So I I practice, you know, gratitude for the very minimal things that I have. I have the breath of life, right, I'm grateful for that every morning I have a warm home, like I actually get to feel warmth right and not be cold and shelterless. Right, Um, there are things that I have in my home that I'm grateful for, my pet um, the fact that I'm surrounded by love. There's so many things that are just those small things that get me started in um in the right place and the right frame of mind. And that's still what I'm in bed right And when I transition into the rest of my ritualistic practice, this starts embodying like different things. I transition into making my coffee and my tea, and that in and of itself is a ritualistic practice right there is you know, I enter into this like mindfulness realm where I am even though I know what the coffee smells like, I'm still you know, taking myself through the aromatic experience of I'm touching the leaves of the tea. I'm like really being grateful for everyone that was a part of the process of the journey to getting this into my home, right down to the person who planted the seed. And it's something that just so slowed down and in the moment and it allows me to take sacred pause to just embody the fullness of the experience of what I am having in that very moment, rather than like put the tea on, go, turn on the computer, you know, get it going, get the day started. Like I I take a full on pause. I do journal, but that's right after I make my coffee, and then I sit in my meditation area that I created for myself, my little nook, and I start journaling. And I do ancestral journaling as well. So I write to my ancestors, you know, and gratitude and and then an inquiry right um, and inquiring upon their wisdom. And you know, I do a lot of sell bath meditation healing for others, but I start my day by doing it for myself and being able to embody the sound vibrations that um are very healing and therapeutic and have and for centuries for our ancestors when you know, we utilize the drums, we utilize you know, singing bowls in many ways to heal the body. And so yeah, I take well to that as well. I mean I could go on for like the whole entire episode, so I'll pause there. But that's kind of like where it starts hold that thought, we are coming right back. Yes, I love all of the ritual talk um really ritualizing everything, Like I look at everything I do as an opportunity for ritual. And I love the way you've illustrated your morning because you know, even the idea of making a t for ourselves, it's like we can deepen the experience by sipping it slowly. How does the warmth feel in your mouth? How does the warmth feel going down your throat? It's in my stomach. What does that feel like? Do I feel nourished? Do I feel full? What's the taste? Let me smell it, you know, enlivening our senses. It's so powerful. And that's really one thing that I think that I've come away with um one of the many things with this pandemic. It's it's re taught me how to experience time within myself. Wow. So that's slowing down of even in those tiny moments like connecting to that joy. Like first I'm observing, Wow, that that warmth feeling that feels good, that feels like nourishing. My senses like it, And then it's like, oh, I feel grateful for that. That actually makes me feel happy. I connect to joy in that and then that's how we really start building those little connective fibers of like, oh, that's what joy feels like, that's what joy means, that's what Yeah. Absolutely, And when you when you spoke, it almost kind of took me into you know, fifty years from now, right, like, what do we want to tell our great grandkids you know that we were doing with time right, um, and just the joy of being able to you know, like impart that knowledge upon them, Like you know, time is within you. You know you can embody um, time as a slow tempo right and just like really take in everything that is available to you and these very small yet fruitful and important moments. Yeah, And it's just like it's so beautiful that to even have that story within you right now that you can then share with your son, and your son can share with his son and you know, and the and the journey continues, and it's just like so you know, it just makes you think, like, wow, we're doing such work even in these small moments um to create healing and and and you know, profound relationship with ourselves that we can then transition on into the future generations and there's so much beauty in that. Yeah, yes, I love when so you brought up my son, and I would love to add that ways that I'm trying he's too, so you know, it's a little challenging. Um, but the ways that I'm trying to just in early stages convey access to joy to him, it's really just by like like adding depth to his emotional language, even at two. You know. So it's like if he likes something, or he says like if he's eating and he says he wants more. Right now, he's obsessed with eating corn on the cob. It fills his little body with so much joy and so like more corn, more corn, mommy. And so then I'll say is it tasty? And it's like so tasty, and I'm like, is it delicious? Look the corn is so beautiful. It's yellow, and he's like beautiful corn. And he'll just run through the house saying that at dinner it, which is wildly adorable to me as his mom. But also it's like, you know, that's giving him, in really small, bite sized ways, access to understanding his connection. It's like, how can I take it past? Oh? I like it. I'm I'm enjoying it too. Wow, this this feels good. I know how to sink inside of myself. I know how to be present with the things that I enjoy and like, and those are like small ways that I'm kind of trying to convey that and scene where it leads us. Mm hmmm. I love that usaid leads us because um, as you were speaking and thinking, that joins and reverberating right back to you. Right. You know, you're you're kind of expanding the joyous moment for him, and then it expands it for you as well, which is a beautiful, you know, kind of transgenerational like moment. Yeah, you know, I had I had a whole outline for all of the things that I want to talk to you about and and we are definitely going to get to as my which just possible. But while I have you, you know, I shared with the audience already, and I shared with you as we were getting started, something that I just walked into. And with your expertise, I think we should actually explore this and I would love your depth of understanding of how to process events like this. Um So at the at the introduction to the show, I shared the story that I shared with you, which is on my way here. Um, this man, uh, there was this racially motivated um circumstance. I don't know, I don't know quite what to call yet. I'm still processing all of this happened less than forty five minutes ago. Um, But I want to share some of the things I'm observing in myself and I would love your expertise, um and guiding me through some of this. So you know the thing that I first noticed. I'm on my way to come work, right on my way to my podcast and to the studio which is in Hollywood, California. And how how easily it was for me to compartmentalize something that made me feel so unsafe. It's really hard for me to feel unsafe. But in that moment, as this person is at my window and saying, you know, suck my d fub and you know, all of these things, and I'm like, there's no one around to help me, No one cares. Oh my god. And so even though I'm like trying to be strong and I'm like, you know, get the hell away from my car, I'm I'm yelling at him to get away from me. I'm shaking, like I'm physically shaking and then noticing that vulnerability and myself is making me even more scared um. And then you know, the transaction lasted a few minutes and when it finally ended, it's like I turned the corner. Now I'm at my podcast. Now I come upstairs, and now I'm like, all, hey, let's get to this show. And it just really brought forward for me in noticing that one how I have learned too and known to do that my whole life. And that's kind of that concept of force resilience that I speak to quite a bit. But it's like, wow, that's really what that is in action, Like they're not being time to process, they're not being maybe um access to compassion or support or understanding and then just having to instantly go into something else and bring your enthusiasm to it and bring your personal power to it. But that situation still existing, and that's still right now. I can feel it in my gut in this moment, and it still is holding a little bit of space in my heart. And yeah, I really started thinking about like ancestrally, you know, I think our generation speaks so beautifully now to connecting to our ancestors and we do have platforms to really do anti racism work and speak truth to power, as my my beautiful friend Lovey says, um. And those are those are typically showing up in the moments that are rare or or in the moments that are smaller passive moments like you're being followed around a store or because of your race or what you look like, or you know, maybe you remember three times in your childhood seeing racism or or beginning to understand what it was. But for our ancestors and our elders in this country, especially what I experienced today, they might have experienced five times in one day. Yeah, and really under like that, actually like that thinking it and really understanding the amount of stress that that puts on your body. Like understanding that felt more ethereal, Because when I think of moments that I've encountered racism in my life, they have been like really specifically big moments that were so clearly um wrong, but spanned out right. It's not something that every single day someone was trying to spit on me like that man did today, or scream at me or tell me that I'm worthless, or called me out of my name, you know, like that doesn't happen to me normally, but it did happen two people that came before us the entire day all day. Yeah, gonna happened to you, right? And I think that there is like, because you are such a compassionate being and you hold um ancestral knowledge and compassion within you. UM, you're already going into a place where you're like, what what could this have been like? For them? And UM in this very moment. I think that perhaps them and I are wondering, you know, what this has been like for you, right, UM? And and how you're doing and how you're holding up in this moment where you haven't necessarily gotten a full chance to process and sit with the terrorizing that has happened to your mind, body, and spirit. At this moment, I'm just wondering. I want to check in with you. I want to thank you. Just know how you're doing? Are you holding on? You know? I feel I think foremost, I feel grateful. I feel really grateful that my son wasn't in the car with me, that who's not with me right now, because I think that would have really, UM, I don't know what I would have done, you know. UM, I think there's a piece of me that is fighting inside in this moment. You know, this will be very shocking probably for a lot of people to hear on this show, But like I used to be someone that really was ready to fight based on my background. You know, I was somebody that can go from zero to a hundred and and really like stand toe to toe with people. And I've done so much work around that, and around transmuting and dissolving any rage or any feelings like that and being able to, you know, not take other people's projections and dysfunctions personally. But I think then sometimes there's still that seat inside of you that's like where is the physical world protection? You know, especially for women, Like that was so undeserved and it was completely unprovoked. Completely I hadn't even seen this man. So it's not like I cut him off first and then he got me back or no, Like I was just like enjoying my morning singing in the car um and he went out of his way to find me and thrust that experience onto me and then go on about his life. And so I think for us, um, if you're in the bipop community, but especially if you're just a woman, it's like really noticing how often do we experience that, even if it's not racially motivated, or if it's not a road rage incident, but how often do we experience that of people coming in and trying to unload toxic shit on you and then you just having to find a way to keep going anyway and finding a way to thrive anyway. Yeah, and I think you know, we can't lose sight of you know, um, the embodiment of the black woman, you know, in that dynamic, right, And so there there is a provocation. The provocation is um, the embodiment of you illuminating you know, as you do wherever you step foot and embodying your joy, you know, coming into spaces that UM are affirming and that you've manifested and all of that you carry with you and and and people can see as they see you, right and as a wet right, that two individuals that embody white fragility. Um. And so that's the provocation. It's not that you necessarily provoked yourself, but the provocation is the embodiment of black joy. Your existence provokes, right, You're you're unfiltered, you know, just illuminating existence is a provocation to those who wish you to stay in a in a position of embody and oppression within yourself, right. And so it's an unfortunate circumstance of the world that we live in, and it is what then drives the type of behavior that is the embodiment of white terror upon black and indigenous bodies, right and minds and spirits and um, all the multiple dimensions of you that have you know, captured this terror. Right. And so when you're speaking and you know, I just I feel in terms of what you were talking about and feeling in your heart, there is the fear that is intentional, right, that that person intended to impose fear upon you so that they can dull your light and dull your joy because it's way too threatening for them to see, to experience to know it exists. And so um, you know, it's uh something that deserves the opportunity to be brought to light. And and so I'm just so incredibly proud of you for just utilizing a community based platform to say this happened, right, because a part of what we've also been socialized to believe is that we have to keep it to ourselves, wallow it up and just not make it public, not announcement, so that people can not only understand this is existing in our world, this is happening, and um, I could use community, love and help around it, right like, And you're allowing for those things to take place, You're allowing for the opportunity for people to know this is still a thing. The elections have passed and we still have a ton of work to do, right and I now have to embody traumatic experience because our fragility is at in within our generation, at an all time high. Um yeah, yeah, fortunate. It's unfortunate. And I think too, it's like noticing my physical response to that also in you know, in real time, trying to dissolve what that brought forward because even though in that moment, I did feel very protected by God, like I feel I feel very safe in my being for the most part, And you know, it was striking to me how I thought I could respond in that situation. But then also understanding I'm not getting out of the car, I'm not fighting a man in the street. Let me make sure he can't get in my car, and I'm trying to you know, lock my doors. And then I noticed, like I'm shaking, like my whole body was shaking, my hands were shaking, and then a piece of me really really did not like that, because I felt like, I don't want you to see me shake. You want me to shake, You want me to feel like I'm less than you, you want me to feel um, victimized. And so then it's like that kind of wrestle with your own body and your own spirit of how you want to present, but then also what's like a physiological response and then trying not to take that on to mean anything about me, you know. So it's just the layering when you're when you're in situations like that, those fight or flight situations. And I think so much of this. You had said something that really resonated, um. You know, I think we experience this not just in these really pathetic, um racially motivated situations like I experienced today, but something you spoke to someone trying to take your radiance, someone trying to take your joy, right, Like sometimes that happens in our own families, Sometimes that happens in our friendships, it happens at work so often, you know, and it's like noticing when someone does that and how that actually makes you feel about yourself and then if you don't let it go in the moment, if you don't actually allow yourself the process to work through it or to sit with it, and you just try to plow through, how you can unknowingly carry that as like microscopic shame with you or microscopic you know, worthlessness with you into other areas. Um, I don't know that's what's coming forward to me. How does that sound to you? Well, it all, it all sounds like you know, I think we have to think about also the embodiment of a trauma response, right. Like you know, even even though granted is incredibly commendable, um that you know, you were able to transition into your day and not allow this person to steal um any more moments from you? Right, there are ways in which this sharp transition into Okay, I gotta put my you know, podcaster interview hat on. You know, this happened, It happened outside. I'm now inside a building, and now I have to like switch right like that, that in and of itself is a response that falls into the umbrella of trauma response, right. And so when we are able to take a step back and um process and in many of the ways that you have been doing right in these moments after the fact, process how your emotional world has captured the experience, how you're body is capturing um, pockets of tension, and the ways that your spirit is holding up right like, all of these things are part of how we give ourselves grace and allow ourselves an opportunity to process fully what that was like and how it tapped into all of the dimensions of who we are and allow ourselves a sacred pause and an opportunity to just be with that information and breathe into it and find a gentle moment, you know, to to offer ourselves that counters that very aggressive moment that you know you have to experience, and that happens in all facets of life with all individuals that you know, create some sort of a heightened level of discovered or distress within our lives. To be able to take sacred pause and then just like process within it is something that is incredibly powerful and actually happens to be within our control. What happened was outside of your control. But a way that we self empower is by bringing um into our sacred space, and so that sacred pause space the opportunity to engage in things that are within our control to to give ourselves, um an opportunity to to be gentle and tender and light, you know. Um. And and I'm so sorry that you're talking about fight or flight because that's exactly where my mind went. Even as you said, like this was me back in the day, I can totally relate. But like, yes, absolutely, I remember in college I used to UM, I used to always I felt like I came from North New Jersey, right, and I'm probably of you know, this town that I love so dearly. And I remember, you know, going into college then it was a very foreign space and there weren't a lot of people from Nork, right, And I just like I felt like I had to stand my ground in the same ways that we used to in Norc. Right, and and say I'm from Nork and then you know, kind of bring out the quote unquote Norc and me yeah, and just let people know what I was about, so nobody will step up to me, right, you know. And and there was this like embodiment of you know, this person that always needed to be in fight mode. Right. The flight was actually foreign to me, um. The withdrawal peace, the you know, going into myself and and and not being able to engage the environment was a little less um of my thing than actually enacting and initiating the fight mode in the fight or flights. So that was more of my default. So I can totally relate to you in in that way and and in how physiologically that presents itself to us. I remember back back in college, I used to, you know, whenever I would engage in in moments like this, I would be trembling to write, I, you know, that is the physiological response of our body saying hey, by the way, Debbie Marriel, I'm shutting down a little bit here because I can sense that there's a threat, there's an imminent threat, and I I'm in the process of shutting down all essential bodily functions that are non essential body functions, right so that I can actually give you enough energy to fight off this threat. And so our bodies start to tremble, to sweat, to you know, like all of these like hormonal productions of you know, what is happening in our bodies as it's getting ready and prepared to fight off the threat is a very natural response. So I'm so so glad to hear that. You're not saying I'm not internalizing that as a part of me that I should be ashamed of. I'm internalizing that as a human reaction, like the human hormonal reaction that is there to protect me. Yeah, and I think you know that is really the core what you're speaking to, I feel is the core of so much of the self work we do is taking a moment, as we experience things to say, this doesn't have to mean something about me. I don't have to take this on as a judgment of myself. The experience that I just had right like this man literally was, you know, saying, stupid b suck my d You know, he wanted he hoped I died, like all of these things, and it's like he wanted me to feel less than him because of how he feels about himself and how he sees the world. M But I can allow myself to give myself the dignity of my experience, so share it. I'm stating what happened to me. I'm stating that I really didn't like it. I was scared. It made me feel really infringed upon, It made me feel un safe. But what I won't take on is the feeling of what he was really trying to do is is invalidate my being and make me feel small and make me feel, you know, terrified to be myself in the world. And if I did, that would then change the way I am in the world. It would dim my light in a certain way. I would perhaps be a little more subdued, fearful that if I allowed myself to be joyful, someone would want to hurt me or harm me, you know. Um, So I think that's just interesting to observe and for anybody listening that this is you know, resonating with on any level, take a moment to apply, like really the depth of what Dr Mariel is sharing to maybe pass situations in your life where you might have experienced this feeling And it doesn't have to be because of an attack or racially motivated, but maybe with your parents, or maybe something at school happened, or you know, getting into fights at or something at work. But just observe it and maybe replay it through this lens and see if there's an opportunity to dissolve there. Yeah. Absolutely, and and um it's a wonderful message to be able to relay, you know, to the masses, because it doesn't um necessarily have to be the experience of white terror and white terrorism UM to to bring us to a point of reflection of what is yours and what is mine? Right? What is it that you are projecting onto me and are hoping that I embody on your behalf because it is entirely too terrifying for you to acknowledge about yourself. And and if we can cast aside whatever is um trying to be imposed upon our spirit by way of the person that is the perpetrator, the aggressor, or even the systems that are perpetrators and aggressives upon black and the generus people of colors lives, then you know we can embody more of that emotional and holistic freedom right, the freedom of being as we are and who we are, without the socialization of white terror, which has been very much a part of the experience that we've had for centuries upon centuries, right, Um, we have had the experience of having white terror tell us who we are and UM create the kind of circumstance where we've had to swallow those words and even internalize it. That's why internalized racism makes sense, right, Like a lot of us have. UM, we're carrying that weight of that experience because we have been terrorized to such an extent that the other option that we have for the sake of survival is internalizing these ideas about ourselves in the world that feel protective but are quite the opposite. Something that you say in your work is that historical pain requires multidimensional healing. What are those dimensions? How are they characterized? Ah? I love talking about that's heavy, and it's what I understand that you know, the heavy pieces we have the unpack as well, and they are so valid and I'm just so honored that you know you you have chosen me to discuss this with Thank you for that, UM, and I know that you and I you know, definitely resonate with UH. The embodiment of the mind, body, Spirit I call a soul work because I really do believe that within our souls we we embodied these three dimensions of the mind, body, and the spirit, and that the three are intertwined and interwoven into each other in a way that cannot be extracted. Right, we can't attend to one to the detriment of another and and allow our lives to be in a state of unbalanced, right, because we're actually hyper focusing on only one mentioned of who we are. So really, the mind, the body, and the spirit are those three dimensions that I speak to in my work and um, and I love to speak to each of them, and I love to speak to all of them, right like as a as a global whole, um, so that we can remember that, especially from the perspective of a therapist, which I think is something that is fairly uncommon um the people perhaps aren't accustomed to because we're like, we're mind people, right, we focused on our minds. But as Angela Davis are living ancestors, has said, you know, we have to liberate our minds as well as liberate society, right, And so I believe in the liberation of us as a people, which means that we have deliberate the ways in which our bodies have been um depositories for stress and anguish and terror, and the same for our spirits. Yeah yeah, that yeah, to embody, that integration of all three, you know, it's I think it's so when we when we are kind of in this space right now in the world, like mental health conversations are really at the forefront for the first time in human history. Uh, and well being conversations for all is at the forefront and for the first time in human history. But sometimes it feels like people on in both of those worlds are acting like there's only one road to healing, right, Like, no, just go to therapy, like that's what you need. You need to understand the root of what's going on with you, and or it's like just bees in and just let go and just release and move forward. But I found in my own healing journey that true remembrance of your wholeness, truly standing in your authentic power, and feeling a love for yourself that is so strong that it radiates from your pores and your being. It requires the integration of all three. And so can you speak to perhaps you know, as people are doing the work really not just intellectualizing it. Understanding it is important. Understanding why we do the things that we do is important. But how do we usher in that integration? How do we include our bodies and our souls in the healing work that we're doing, dismantling in our minds? M hmm, yeah, you know it's it's really and it takes me back, you know, to our conversation on rituals. Right. You know, it's an embodiment of the multiple ways in which we can attend to and honor each of these dimensions of who we are. Um and it it means that we honor by way of action. Right, we honor by eliciting action that is healing and profound in each of these areas. That the healing of the mind isn't just a healing that happens through the process as a therapy, if therapy is indeed accessible to a person, but that it it also means that we experienced liberation by way of cultural consciousness and the understanding of who we are as people and our historical knowledge of ourselves, and that that is also a part of the ways in which the mind becomes liberated. Right. Um, it's about Marley's words, emancipate yourself from mental slavery, right, Like it really it needs to take on that form as well. And healing practices of the mind or wide and varied right, and therapy is obviously a very popular one, especially in these days. I gotta say I'm really excited about that because, like I came into this work like going on nine years and I had no idea. We were like in in the Shadows, we were these people that nobody wanted to deal with, they could needed to. You were like everybody's side check a secret, No, no, I don't do that right right, And to like, you know, to be in this this moment in time, it's just fascinating and it makes me so happy that our people are saying, hey, I'm doing this for myself and it matters, and I matter, and you know, my therapeutic journey matters, and let me tell you about it. Like it's just so it illuminates my life whenever I get to see that, which is very often, and I, um, how do you think that that that shift and our collective consciousness happened just in the last couple of years. How do you think we came into this space for so many were therapy is now this tool of empowerment that you're actually excited to tell people about. Like my girlfriends will text me and they'll be like, guess what I learned in therapy today, you know, And then like even five years ago, that wasn't happening in this kind of a way. I think it's you know, it's in part I have to give credit to the people. The people are deciding this is a moments in time when we're going to proclaim healing right. And I fondly believe that this is the frame of mind that this generation has taken up, and we have to give credit, you know, to the people themselves. However, I do believe that there are, albeit very small movements, but movements in the direction of dismantling some of the barriers that exist. And when we're talking about this menting, I think it's important to know, you know, that we are in the mental health arena, educating about the actual experience around stigma and us being able to have that broader conversation of Hay Stigma exists, and this is how it exists within our communities as allowed for a point of self reflection within this generation where people are like, oh yeah, that's a thing like stigma has kept me from being able to solicit therapy. And when we talk about the barriers that are financial, people can say, oh yeah, these financial barriers have got to go right. And I think that these micro conversations around the barriers themselves as well have contributed to the larger conversation of I want this for myself. I deserve therapy, and I want to have a conversation around how therapy can actually be brought upon my life. And then once a person gets into it and they can actually experience with therapy is able to offer. You know, there is an added motivation that people are experiencing around speaking to therapy UM. And also you know, like there's pre farm between a therapist that identifies black UM. However, I think we are very motivated to also bring to the for this conversation within our communities, like we are abandoning these like old scripts that why ideology has imposed upon the mental health world that has said like you know, this is something that is secretive, and we're saying no, our communities need to talk about this, and we're talking about this. And these conversations have I think a very large impact and I'm grateful for them. Yeah. Yeah, And you know the thing that I really love so much about it is it returns our power to us, Like being able to speak our truth freely allows us to grow. And anytime we're trying to keep any secrets, any secrets, there is going to be this natural minimization of self that happens. So if we were in therapy but we weren't sharing, you know, some of our breakthroughs. And you don't have to do it on the Graham, right, but even just with people, even just broadening our conversation, it's like to do that helps you build your spiritual confidence. It helps you practice being this new version of you that you're becoming. And so you really limit your growth when you're not kind of when you're already in your lessons, or you're not just kind of really sharing yourself, or you're in fear of what will people think if you know. That is the biggest sadness to me about when you're stuck in that position of comparativeness or wanting to conceal self, you just limit and slow your growth so much, so so much, and it's actually antithetical to who we are as people, right, Like we are people that we have like this enormous grapevine, right that that flows through our communities where information just kind of um flows through about the experiences that we've had what has helped And this has been the case for as long as we've existed on this planet, right, Like we have had this communal informational like super highway. You know, if you're made to use kind of like more um, more modern dating terms. But these have been the ways in which people have shared thoughts, ideas dealing practices, and there hasn't been a secrecy around it, right, There's been a secrecy in modern day world that we have imposed upon healing mechanisms and especially indigenous healing practices. And we are deciding as people like, this is not something that we want to continue to embody because this is this is a colonized framework of being, um, you know, of existing as a heal itself. The decolonized framework is I share that with my cousin, my grandmother, my this, my that right, and everybody knows about you know, what has worked, and we do that with everything. My parents, you know, they for as long as I've lived, they've had all these teas that they vote this tis for this and this ts for that. You've got gastro issues, always got you right, And so there's always been like a way that they have imparted knowledge upon me, and stral knowledge is saying that we have the tools we don't you don't need to know necessarily always go to you know, an MDI medical professional in order to actually heal you know, parts of you. We have these indigenous practices, indigenous wisdom that we want to impose upon you. And it hasn't been until now in my you know, early to latter thirties, that I've actually experienced such an immense gratitude for what they've given me in her life that I didn't even know how to all these roots right, And so this is the way that we communicate. We say, hey, I know something that can help. Here's the shaman, here's the good endtle. You know, like there's so many healers in our communities, and we are now giving extension to therapy to also be a part of that healing community and that healing grapevine. Ah yeah, yeah, I love that. Let's share our tools. Nothing is too small, you know, like we need all of it. We all need to be sharing our tools in each moment. Dr Mary All, I would love to ask you so we at the end of the show, I like to give a little soul work for everyone listening, something to take them into their week. It can either be a thought, it can be a journal prompt, it can be an activity. But I would love to extend to you that the professorship of this today, Um, what is something that the audience can work on this week. What is the thought they can have or something that they can do for their soul homework? M hm, yes, I love the question, and you know, perhaps, um what what actually like came to mind right away was the extension of a question that I asked my social media community, which is and remember thinking about the fact that within the soul we hold the mind, the body, and the spirit. So it's a very multidimensional question that I'm about to ask, but be asking whether in a journal prompt that you'd like to write, or if you'd like to just sit and meditate all these words, I'd love to ask, how's your soul? And if you could even commit to asking yourself bad for the next seven days, checking in with your mind, with your body, and with your spirit to see how you're doing as a whole human being, I think it it can really shift the perspective of how you start embodying wellness within yourself and self love. So that's my little nugget, how is your soul feeling? I love that, and we're going to put all of your information, of course within the episode. But for people listening right now, how can they connect to your soul Healing Collective and how can they connect to your beautiful work? M hmm, thank you. I Um, I'm on Instagram at at Dr Marriel Bouquet and be so Healing Collective UM can be found right on my website Dr mariel Bouquet dot com and I look forward to seeing people there were doing really great healing work and community and it just fills my soul, you know, to be able to be with other souls that are so intentional about healing work. Mm hmm. Thank you so much for your time today. I just I enjoy speaking to you so mentally. You have such a radiance UM, and your depth of knowledge is just so delicious. So thank you so much for gifting me with your time to be on this show. My song is delicious. I love it that you are giving me all kinds, all kinds of new language to you towards my work. I love it. It is such an honor to be with you, you know, and everything that we've discussed, you know, from the grief to the joy, and you know, I love spendy time with you. So thank you for giving me a pocket of your time to do that, and thank you for holding space for me so beautifully. Thank you that. I think that that was not only was it healing for me, but I think it's such a beautiful example for people that are having questions around how can I show up for others? I think that was um. I think it really gave each of us, uh listening and here a beautiful experience. Thank you. Hey find me on social Let's connect at deVie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram, or go to my website Debbie Brown dot com. And if you're listening to the show on Apple podcasts, please please please don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe and send this episode to a friend. Dropping Jims is the production of I Heart Radio and Black Effect Network. It's produced by Triple and Me Debbie Brown. For more podcasts from My heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.