Take a deep breath in through your nose. Else hold it now, release slowly again deep inhale, hold release, repeating internally to yourself as you connect my voice. I am deeply, deeply well. I am deeply deep well. I am deeply wow. I'm Debbie Brown and this is the Deeply Well podcast. Welcome to Deeply Well. I'm your host, Debbie Brown, and as always, we are diving into the crevices in service to expansion this episode. I am so excited to bring back to the show one of by far the most cult classic favorite episodes. The amount of messages got about the episode that I did last season with this amazing man was just.

Take a deep breath in through your nose. Else hold it now, release slowly again deep inhale, hold release, repeating internally to yourself as you connect my voice. I am deeply, deeply well. I am deeply deep well. I am deeply wow. I'm Debbie Brown and this is the Deeply Well podcast. Welcome to Deeply Well. I'm your host, Debbie Brown, and as always, we are diving into the crevices in service to expansion this episode. I am so excited to bring back to the show one of by far the most cult classic favorite episodes. The amount of messages got about the episode that I did last season with this amazing man was just.

Through the roof.

Through the roof.

People are asking for part ten, so we'll see what we can do. We're definitely on the second. Today I am joined by none other than Healer, best selling author, master coach, or organizational strategist. Healer again, I have to say, a long time therapist and a licensed clinical social worker who specializes in the healing of trauma. He's also the founder of the Cultural Somatics Institute, a cultural trauma navigator, and a communal.

People are asking for part ten, so we'll see what we can do. We're definitely on the second. Today I am joined by none other than Healer, best selling author, master coach, or organizational strategist. Healer again, I have to say, a long time therapist and a licensed clinical social worker who specializes in the healing of trauma. He's also the founder of the Cultural Somatics Institute, a cultural trauma navigator, and a communal.

Provocateur and coach.

Provocateur and coach.

Last time Resmo was here, we spoke about one of his best selling books, My Grandmother's Hands, which radically changed the world of healing to this approach that he developed over many, many decades. He then led the charge really speaking to the divide that we've been experiencing in America with the Quaking of America. And now he is back with another book to fuel us and feed us in this very paradigm shifting moment of human history. Monsters in Love, Welcome to the show. Resmaminequan having you know, it's so interesting. So you're a healer, I'm a healer. Anytime we share space, instant regulation, don't have to do anything. The vibrational energy is just you've said it. You're centered, grounded. Monsters in Love, this is a big book I had the pleasure of at the time of recording. Now last night you and I were in community and I was able to do a Q and A with you on your new book with your community, and it was absolutely mind blowing the way that you were diving into what feels like a completely new approach for so many people and understanding love, understanding their role in love and in relationship, and especially in speaking to relationship as a tool of healing and transformation. It's intended use the way God designed it. What led you to say, now is the time to speak to this piece of the healing puzzle.

Last time Resmo was here, we spoke about one of his best selling books, My Grandmother's Hands, which radically changed the world of healing to this approach that he developed over many, many decades. He then led the charge really speaking to the divide that we've been experiencing in America with the Quaking of America. And now he is back with another book to fuel us and feed us in this very paradigm shifting moment of human history. Monsters in Love, Welcome to the show. Resmaminequan having you know, it's so interesting. So you're a healer, I'm a healer. Anytime we share space, instant regulation, don't have to do anything. The vibrational energy is just you've said it. You're centered, grounded. Monsters in Love, this is a big book I had the pleasure of at the time of recording. Now last night you and I were in community and I was able to do a Q and A with you on your new book with your community, and it was absolutely mind blowing the way that you were diving into what feels like a completely new approach for so many people and understanding love, understanding their role in love and in relationship, and especially in speaking to relationship as a tool of healing and transformation. It's intended use the way God designed it. What led you to say, now is the time to speak to this piece of the healing puzzle.

So so Muster's in Love is actually kind of like a remake, right, so I had So my second book was a book called Rock the Boat. Rocked the Boat was originally with another publisher. My publisher went out of business. I got my rights back, right, and between the time I first wrote that book and now, I've evolved, I've grown, just in just in terms of as a as a therapist, as a healer, as somebody who works with other bodies. I'm not the same dude I was when I wrote it, right, And so when I got the rights back, I just put it to the side. And as I started to go back and read it again, there were parts that now I'm like, oh, I want to change that. I'm not the same person. I'm not the same therapist, I'm not the same healer. Eye in terms of what happens in relationships is different. It's more mature now. And so Monsters in Love was really about how I began to integrate some of my own learning, some of my own emergence and so I think why it's relevant now is I actually think because of all of the things that I've done before, it led me up to a place to where I said, oh, now I can work with the couple's work the same way I work with communal work, going to do the couple's work the same way I do organizational work. I can do the couple's work now. And it took me years to get to that place. And so that's why I think Masters in Love is so important now is because this idea of understanding historical, intergenerational, persistent institutional race, sex, sexuality, like all of those pieces, I think we're at a place now where we maybe possibly can hold it.

So so Muster's in Love is actually kind of like a remake, right, so I had So my second book was a book called Rock the Boat. Rocked the Boat was originally with another publisher. My publisher went out of business. I got my rights back, right, and between the time I first wrote that book and now, I've evolved, I've grown, just in just in terms of as a as a therapist, as a healer, as somebody who works with other bodies. I'm not the same dude I was when I wrote it, right, And so when I got the rights back, I just put it to the side. And as I started to go back and read it again, there were parts that now I'm like, oh, I want to change that. I'm not the same person. I'm not the same therapist, I'm not the same healer. Eye in terms of what happens in relationships is different. It's more mature now. And so Monsters in Love was really about how I began to integrate some of my own learning, some of my own emergence and so I think why it's relevant now is I actually think because of all of the things that I've done before, it led me up to a place to where I said, oh, now I can work with the couple's work the same way I work with communal work, going to do the couple's work the same way I do organizational work. I can do the couple's work now. And it took me years to get to that place. And so that's why I think Masters in Love is so important now is because this idea of understanding historical, intergenerational, persistent institutional race, sex, sexuality, like all of those pieces, I think we're at a place now where we maybe possibly can hold it.

M You know what's so.

M You know what's so.

It's just so divine. I think that the placements of your books because I even am recognizing how your work is building tolerance.

It's just so divine. I think that the placements of your books because I even am recognizing how your work is building tolerance.

Yeah everything, Yeah, yeah, it's it's the attempt is to get us practiced, right.

Yeah everything, Yeah, yeah, it's it's the attempt is to get us practiced, right.

Yes.

Yes.

I use this analogy like if if I called you one day and I said, hey, Debbie, I'm thinking about running a marathon and you've been my sister, you go, oh that's cool, Yeah, that's really cool. You know, anything I can do to support you? Da da da dah, and we would go back and forth, and then you might get the bright idea to ask me a question. Right. You might say, hey, when do you think do you have an idea in your mind when you're thinking about running this marathon? And if I looked at you and I said I'm thinking about running it tomorrow, right, You'd go, Okay, I got to ask another question now, right. And if you say, well, have you been running?

I use this analogy like if if I called you one day and I said, hey, Debbie, I'm thinking about running a marathon and you've been my sister, you go, oh that's cool, Yeah, that's really cool. You know, anything I can do to support you? Da da da dah, and we would go back and forth, and then you might get the bright idea to ask me a question. Right. You might say, hey, when do you think do you have an idea in your mind when you're thinking about running this marathon? And if I looked at you and I said I'm thinking about running it tomorrow, right, You'd go, Okay, I got to ask another question now, right. And if you say, well, have you been running?

Right?

Right?

Have you been watching what you eat? Have you run a block? First? And if I looked at you in all seriousness and I said no, but I read a book on it, right, No, but I talked to a dude who ran, right, you'd get concerned about me now. Right now you would have to reality test with me, because what you know is is that I'm about to put my body through something that I am unprepared to contend with. And relationships are the same thing we put We are unprepared to deal with the charge of what it means when I say I choose you, right, And we all think, just because we choose a person, we're ready for the charge. We're ready for the weight, we're ready for the speed, we're ready for the texture, and we are not, and so Musters in Love is really my attempt for us to begin to say, slow it down, let's start doing the things that get us conditioned so we can hold what is about to come from an historical place, from an intergenerational place, from a persistent, persistent institutional place, and then our own personal lived experiences.

Have you been watching what you eat? Have you run a block? First? And if I looked at you in all seriousness and I said no, but I read a book on it, right, No, but I talked to a dude who ran, right, you'd get concerned about me now. Right now you would have to reality test with me, because what you know is is that I'm about to put my body through something that I am unprepared to contend with. And relationships are the same thing we put We are unprepared to deal with the charge of what it means when I say I choose you, right, And we all think, just because we choose a person, we're ready for the charge. We're ready for the weight, we're ready for the speed, we're ready for the texture, and we are not, and so Musters in Love is really my attempt for us to begin to say, slow it down, let's start doing the things that get us conditioned so we can hold what is about to come from an historical place, from an intergenerational place, from a persistent, persistent institutional place, and then our own personal lived experiences.

Yes, yes, yes, Okay, let's start at the top, because there this book.

Yes, yes, yes, Okay, let's start at the top, because there this book.

It's a phenomenal book. And I really my deepest desire for anyone tapping into the show today and resonating with our voices and hearing us is to help you create a new understanding of the way relationship works in your unique life, based on who you are and your experiences, so that you can alleviate suffering and find more joy in them and use them as the tools they're actually designed to be. So I want to start at the top with you talk to me about the intended evolution of relationship, because this is a piece that we have all always gotten wrong, and society has really primed us for this right, like even back to the Disney movie day. Absolutely, when we're wearing those traditional roles of provider and support or however, you know, they've showed up for you and your life or and your culture. But there is always this blueprint that I would say never actually feels authentic to anyone. And it's based on timetables that are so simple and don't actually have like a sacred weight. Yeah, it's like meet, fall in love, have sex somewhere in the midst of all that, and get engaged, get married, have a child, retire and then you know, and it's like, yeah, okay, and what about the individuals doing those things?

It's a phenomenal book. And I really my deepest desire for anyone tapping into the show today and resonating with our voices and hearing us is to help you create a new understanding of the way relationship works in your unique life, based on who you are and your experiences, so that you can alleviate suffering and find more joy in them and use them as the tools they're actually designed to be. So I want to start at the top with you talk to me about the intended evolution of relationship, because this is a piece that we have all always gotten wrong, and society has really primed us for this right, like even back to the Disney movie day. Absolutely, when we're wearing those traditional roles of provider and support or however, you know, they've showed up for you and your life or and your culture. But there is always this blueprint that I would say never actually feels authentic to anyone. And it's based on timetables that are so simple and don't actually have like a sacred weight. Yeah, it's like meet, fall in love, have sex somewhere in the midst of all that, and get engaged, get married, have a child, retire and then you know, and it's like, yeah, okay, and what about the individuals doing those things?

So if you would share with us, what is really.

So if you would share with us, what is really.

The intended evolution and even purpose for intimate relationship?

The intended evolution and even purpose for intimate relationship?

Yeah, So one of the things that happens is that we have all been conditioned by our understanding of relationship, either through our caregivers, through the messages that we receive on TV in movies. What would our friends say to us about what the correct way is to do things and be things right? And ends up happening? Is is that we miss what actually we're so conditioned that if I meet somebody and I have butterflies in my stomach, and if I meet somebody and I have this like magical thing that happens between you know, happens between us, and I know this is the person. We have been conditioned to believe that that is what should be from now on. Yes, yes, right, And like I said last night, the only purpose of that is to draw you together. The only purpose of that of those particular pieces is to present like when you're when you're when you first get together, you're the only thing you're really sharing is commonalities and things that you both agree to. Right, it's serving its purpose. But then there's another purpose that happens, and that's beginning to highlight and show the things that you don't agree with. And that's when we think something is going wrong. That's when we think that our partner is not the right person for us. That's when we start thinking communication and compatibility issues are coming up. And what I'm saying is is if we could begin to slow it down and see that there is a purpose, a function for expressing your differences and how you move in the world differently and understand the world, there is a function of it. It is not the problem. There is a function of it. And we as particularly here in America, we haven't inquired or interrogated what the function of that is. The function of it is. It is designed to make you begin to work with the energy around being connected to somebody that's important to you, that matters to you, and maintaining a clear sense of yourself while you're doing it, and being able to soothe your own hurts and your pains while you're doing it. It is not either for them to turn themselves over to you or for you to turn yourself over to them, right, and that and that, that kind of disney conditioning is like turn yourself over. Yeah, they kiss you and you wake up from a sleep, and now you're the princess, right, or now you're the prince and you say right. And we all go into relationships with some rem and it doesn't matter if I'm talking about heterosexual relationships, homosexual relationships, or any other relationship where there's two people, right, it doesn't matter. We all have been conditioned by it, and we have not interrogated interrogated, So it always shows up as a bottleneck, as a gridla and our only conditioning in terms of like psychology and marriage therapy and all that different type of stuff revolves around well, let's just get find out the problem, alleviate the problem, and fix the problem. And what's really going on is that there is a piece in you that's asking you to grow to hell up right, to grow up in ways that you have been able because you haven't been with somebody, you've been able to get to that line and then figure out a way around it. Right. And what that sufferings edge does when you choose another person, what the sufferings edge does is the suffering. He says, Look, you can find a way around it. You can bring another person in, you can act like us, all their problem, you can do all of that. And this particular time, let's not do that. Let's not blow all of this through our partner. Let's actually sit with this and not take it all on ourselves, but actually work with the energy of what is beckoning me. But before I met this person, what is the thing, what is the purpose that's tied to my integrity? The gnawing that's happening for me right now? I always tell people the gnawing is health. The gnawing is not health. And what we've been taught is to kill the gnawing or get rid of the gnawing, and not metabolize the energy that's creating the gnawing.

Yeah, So one of the things that happens is that we have all been conditioned by our understanding of relationship, either through our caregivers, through the messages that we receive on TV in movies. What would our friends say to us about what the correct way is to do things and be things right? And ends up happening? Is is that we miss what actually we're so conditioned that if I meet somebody and I have butterflies in my stomach, and if I meet somebody and I have this like magical thing that happens between you know, happens between us, and I know this is the person. We have been conditioned to believe that that is what should be from now on. Yes, yes, right, And like I said last night, the only purpose of that is to draw you together. The only purpose of that of those particular pieces is to present like when you're when you're when you first get together, you're the only thing you're really sharing is commonalities and things that you both agree to. Right, it's serving its purpose. But then there's another purpose that happens, and that's beginning to highlight and show the things that you don't agree with. And that's when we think something is going wrong. That's when we think that our partner is not the right person for us. That's when we start thinking communication and compatibility issues are coming up. And what I'm saying is is if we could begin to slow it down and see that there is a purpose, a function for expressing your differences and how you move in the world differently and understand the world, there is a function of it. It is not the problem. There is a function of it. And we as particularly here in America, we haven't inquired or interrogated what the function of that is. The function of it is. It is designed to make you begin to work with the energy around being connected to somebody that's important to you, that matters to you, and maintaining a clear sense of yourself while you're doing it, and being able to soothe your own hurts and your pains while you're doing it. It is not either for them to turn themselves over to you or for you to turn yourself over to them, right, and that and that, that kind of disney conditioning is like turn yourself over. Yeah, they kiss you and you wake up from a sleep, and now you're the princess, right, or now you're the prince and you say right. And we all go into relationships with some rem and it doesn't matter if I'm talking about heterosexual relationships, homosexual relationships, or any other relationship where there's two people, right, it doesn't matter. We all have been conditioned by it, and we have not interrogated interrogated, So it always shows up as a bottleneck, as a gridla and our only conditioning in terms of like psychology and marriage therapy and all that different type of stuff revolves around well, let's just get find out the problem, alleviate the problem, and fix the problem. And what's really going on is that there is a piece in you that's asking you to grow to hell up right, to grow up in ways that you have been able because you haven't been with somebody, you've been able to get to that line and then figure out a way around it. Right. And what that sufferings edge does when you choose another person, what the sufferings edge does is the suffering. He says, Look, you can find a way around it. You can bring another person in, you can act like us, all their problem, you can do all of that. And this particular time, let's not do that. Let's not blow all of this through our partner. Let's actually sit with this and not take it all on ourselves, but actually work with the energy of what is beckoning me. But before I met this person, what is the thing, what is the purpose that's tied to my integrity? The gnawing that's happening for me right now? I always tell people the gnawing is health. The gnawing is not health. And what we've been taught is to kill the gnawing or get rid of the gnawing, and not metabolize the energy that's creating the gnawing.

Okay, sit there, please, please, please, please please, This gives me chills because this is part of the reason I believe bodies of culture and those that have experienced complex trauma of all backgrounds come on. The fight is to come into your body, often for the first time, the first time.

Okay, sit there, please, please, please, please please, This gives me chills because this is part of the reason I believe bodies of culture and those that have experienced complex trauma of all backgrounds come on. The fight is to come into your body, often for the first time, the first time.

That is the biggest, the hardest, the most important piece of the puzzle for healing. You have to be present for your life. You have to be present inside this vessel that's been designed to hold your soul. So very often in some of our communities, there is this charge that we don't have language for around all kinds of things. When anger comes up, when love comes up, when desire comes up. It's a feeling that is so foreign because many of us are robbed of the opportunity to feel, to know, how to learn how so you are just having these experiences inside that you don't know how to talk about, You don't know what their intended purpose is, and so it's so overwhelming and it makes you completely jump out of yourself, very often detached down all the things that keep us from ourselves and our end one another. That's the baseline, right So as you're speaking to these right like even that feeling of desire that can first come up and for some it can be the feeling of oh my god, this is the one right, and b others it's just that lustful feeling, passionate feeling.

That is the biggest, the hardest, the most important piece of the puzzle for healing. You have to be present for your life. You have to be present inside this vessel that's been designed to hold your soul. So very often in some of our communities, there is this charge that we don't have language for around all kinds of things. When anger comes up, when love comes up, when desire comes up. It's a feeling that is so foreign because many of us are robbed of the opportunity to feel, to know, how to learn how so you are just having these experiences inside that you don't know how to talk about, You don't know what their intended purpose is, and so it's so overwhelming and it makes you completely jump out of yourself, very often detached down all the things that keep us from ourselves and our end one another. That's the baseline, right So as you're speaking to these right like even that feeling of desire that can first come up and for some it can be the feeling of oh my god, this is the one right, and b others it's just that lustful feeling, passionate feeling.

Or terror.

Or terror.

M Okay, can you talk about this piece and why In your first book you really masterfully unpack the understanding of needing to build tolerance to receive good things, and that exists in our loving relationships too.

M Okay, can you talk about this piece and why In your first book you really masterfully unpack the understanding of needing to build tolerance to receive good things, and that exists in our loving relationships too.

So think about it like this, sibling. Many of us come from bodies that were brutalized for hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of years, like legally brutalized. Right, those nervous systems got shaped around the brutalization. Okay, Wow, it is relatively new occurrence, right, that me and you could be sitting here doing what we're doing and have some sense of sovereignty over our own bodies. For most of me and your history, the white body had full and unfettered access to our bodies. Wow, full and unfettered. I mean every idea, every office, there was no protection. So that charge. We had to organize our communities around that charge. We had to organize our nervous systems around that charge. So when we get into a relationship with somebody, that charge presents itself, and it can look like terror, It can look like horror. It can look like rejection, it can look like anxiety, it can look like depression. That's because it's been decontextualized, and we internalize it as a personal defect, as opposed to as opposed to it being structural and philosophical. Oh my god. So when we as black bodies come into contact with each other, even if I love you the wh the historical charge also floods into the room without context and without understanding, and without moorings to navigate it. And so part of our work is to slow it down enough to allow the energy to condition us. Many times, what we do is we gorge on it rather than nibble on it. We want it all, but we can't tolerate it, so we break apart. So we push away at the same time that we're saying, come come closer. Yeah right, yeah, that has to be that. That's because what happened to us did not happen to us individually. It happened to us communally. So only developing a communal only developing an individual response to a communal horror is inadequate. Part of the reason why many of us can't be in relationships or have a very difficult time in relationships. Is because we've been seeing this whole process as an individual endeavor as opposed to what happened to our peoples and how our people's bodies got organized around the brutality and the feralness. And so what I try and help our people do sys is first, slow it down, orient move your bodies, touch your body. Watch. Like one of the practices that I have in h in my grandmother's hands is just get in front of a mirror. I can't tell you how many times people say they skip over that practice. Just take your clothes off and stand in front of a mirror, and notice how long you can stand there. Now, sometimes you could You just look and you pack up. There's nothing going wrong, there's too much. You notice, there's too much charge, walk away, then come back again. This is the conditioning. It'd be the same way if I was trying to show you how to shoot a jump shot or show you how to throw a punch. Right, you can't throw one punch and you're conditioned. You don't understand nuance yet, right, And for our people, we've been conditioned that if you choose somebody you're already conditioned. You're not conditioned. And so when all of this charge and waiting texture comes into the room with somebody that you love, you don't know what to do with it. Even if it's feel even if you have the experience that this is a good thing, it's also vulnerable. It's a good thing, it's also terrifying. And we haven't interrogated that individually in a couple or communality.

So think about it like this, sibling. Many of us come from bodies that were brutalized for hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of years, like legally brutalized. Right, those nervous systems got shaped around the brutalization. Okay, Wow, it is relatively new occurrence, right, that me and you could be sitting here doing what we're doing and have some sense of sovereignty over our own bodies. For most of me and your history, the white body had full and unfettered access to our bodies. Wow, full and unfettered. I mean every idea, every office, there was no protection. So that charge. We had to organize our communities around that charge. We had to organize our nervous systems around that charge. So when we get into a relationship with somebody, that charge presents itself, and it can look like terror, It can look like horror. It can look like rejection, it can look like anxiety, it can look like depression. That's because it's been decontextualized, and we internalize it as a personal defect, as opposed to as opposed to it being structural and philosophical. Oh my god. So when we as black bodies come into contact with each other, even if I love you the wh the historical charge also floods into the room without context and without understanding, and without moorings to navigate it. And so part of our work is to slow it down enough to allow the energy to condition us. Many times, what we do is we gorge on it rather than nibble on it. We want it all, but we can't tolerate it, so we break apart. So we push away at the same time that we're saying, come come closer. Yeah right, yeah, that has to be that. That's because what happened to us did not happen to us individually. It happened to us communally. So only developing a communal only developing an individual response to a communal horror is inadequate. Part of the reason why many of us can't be in relationships or have a very difficult time in relationships. Is because we've been seeing this whole process as an individual endeavor as opposed to what happened to our peoples and how our people's bodies got organized around the brutality and the feralness. And so what I try and help our people do sys is first, slow it down, orient move your bodies, touch your body. Watch. Like one of the practices that I have in h in my grandmother's hands is just get in front of a mirror. I can't tell you how many times people say they skip over that practice. Just take your clothes off and stand in front of a mirror, and notice how long you can stand there. Now, sometimes you could You just look and you pack up. There's nothing going wrong, there's too much. You notice, there's too much charge, walk away, then come back again. This is the conditioning. It'd be the same way if I was trying to show you how to shoot a jump shot or show you how to throw a punch. Right, you can't throw one punch and you're conditioned. You don't understand nuance yet, right, And for our people, we've been conditioned that if you choose somebody you're already conditioned. You're not conditioned. And so when all of this charge and waiting texture comes into the room with somebody that you love, you don't know what to do with it. Even if it's feel even if you have the experience that this is a good thing, it's also vulnerable. It's a good thing, it's also terrifying. And we haven't interrogated that individually in a couple or communality.

Deeply.

Deeply.

Wow, can you expand on the terror of vulnerability and how that keeps us from love, from our own love, and from connection with someone you really want to have love with.

Wow, can you expand on the terror of vulnerability and how that keeps us from love, from our own love, and from connection with someone you really want to have love with.

That's right. So, so when you're out here just running wild and ripping wild, and you you know, you just you know what I mean doing right. When you're out here doing that, there's a lot of choices. You got a lot of choices, a lot of moves you can make. Right the moment you say I choose you, it shifts and we all know it. People say it all the time before we got married, it was cool. As soon as we moved in together, they lost their mind.

That's right. So, so when you're out here just running wild and ripping wild, and you you know, you just you know what I mean doing right. When you're out here doing that, there's a lot of choices. You got a lot of choices, a lot of moves you can make. Right the moment you say I choose you, it shifts and we all know it. People say it all the time before we got married, it was cool. As soon as we moved in together, they lost their mind.

If that ain't the exact phrase that you hear.

If that ain't the exact phrase that you hear.

Constantly, constantly, right, And it's because The reason why we say that is because we haven't interrogated and slow down enough to really unpack what that means. When we say that, we make it a particular personal thing, like she lost her mind, she lost their mind, they lost their minds. Right, yes, but there's actually a function in that. Right the moment, when I'm out here wiling and ripping and running and by myself, I have infinite choices and moves that I can make. There is nobody who is who has more say so in control over my life than me. There is no influence that I have to negotiate. Right but the moment I say, baby, let's move in together, at that exact moment, my choices become finite. When my choices become finite, I get pushed up against my development in that exact moment, because I never had to get pushed when I was doing, when I was by myself or just dating. The moment I say let's move intogether, my choices become finite. More of what I do and don't do revolves around what you do and don't want to do. My vulner immediately come to my vulnerability at that moment, And soon as you come to your vulnerability. At that moment, you try and figure out a way to lessen the vulnerability. And many times I say this one thing I've said a lot many times. People have affairs and relationships not because the partner is not important. It is because the partner is too important for them to actually show themselves too. Okay, it's really easy to go find somebody in the club and tell them all of the things I will that look like, all of the intimate things and all of the secrets and all that stuff. But that person that's laying there on the pillow with me, they are too important for me to let them see these parts of me. So I can. I'll do it with somebody I'll pick up in the club or pick up at church, or pick up right but this person because it matters to me what happens to their eyes when I say, hey, I really want to do this thing. If I can't maintain a clear sense of myself when I look in your eyes, I'll start to shave it and move it around and not say it and not express it because the look of disgust in your face I can't tolerate. And it seems like that's a problem for you. But it's actually a problem for me. Am I going to grow parts of myself up? Am I going to develop the ability to more myself? So even with you, I can let you see me behind my eyeballs and hold on to myself at the same time. Most people can't do that when they say I choose you. I can do it with somebody in the club, but not you, because it actually matters when I see discussed. It actually matters when you say, I ain't doing that's nasty. If I can't maintain a clear sense in myself, then I'm going to either make you give yourself up in order for me to feel better, or I'm going to give myself up in order for me to feel better and nothing's going wrong when that happens. That's the function it forces you up against. Are you going to be clean about this? Or are you going to be dirty about this? That's it. Adults don't get a choice between pain and no pain. The choice. Adults get a choice between am I going to do this clean? Am I going to do this dirty? The choice the other choice of possibly not having as much pain that happens after you make this one. M Wow, does that make sense?

Constantly, constantly, right, And it's because The reason why we say that is because we haven't interrogated and slow down enough to really unpack what that means. When we say that, we make it a particular personal thing, like she lost her mind, she lost their mind, they lost their minds. Right, yes, but there's actually a function in that. Right the moment, when I'm out here wiling and ripping and running and by myself, I have infinite choices and moves that I can make. There is nobody who is who has more say so in control over my life than me. There is no influence that I have to negotiate. Right but the moment I say, baby, let's move in together, at that exact moment, my choices become finite. When my choices become finite, I get pushed up against my development in that exact moment, because I never had to get pushed when I was doing, when I was by myself or just dating. The moment I say let's move intogether, my choices become finite. More of what I do and don't do revolves around what you do and don't want to do. My vulner immediately come to my vulnerability at that moment, And soon as you come to your vulnerability. At that moment, you try and figure out a way to lessen the vulnerability. And many times I say this one thing I've said a lot many times. People have affairs and relationships not because the partner is not important. It is because the partner is too important for them to actually show themselves too. Okay, it's really easy to go find somebody in the club and tell them all of the things I will that look like, all of the intimate things and all of the secrets and all that stuff. But that person that's laying there on the pillow with me, they are too important for me to let them see these parts of me. So I can. I'll do it with somebody I'll pick up in the club or pick up at church, or pick up right but this person because it matters to me what happens to their eyes when I say, hey, I really want to do this thing. If I can't maintain a clear sense of myself when I look in your eyes, I'll start to shave it and move it around and not say it and not express it because the look of disgust in your face I can't tolerate. And it seems like that's a problem for you. But it's actually a problem for me. Am I going to grow parts of myself up? Am I going to develop the ability to more myself? So even with you, I can let you see me behind my eyeballs and hold on to myself at the same time. Most people can't do that when they say I choose you. I can do it with somebody in the club, but not you, because it actually matters when I see discussed. It actually matters when you say, I ain't doing that's nasty. If I can't maintain a clear sense in myself, then I'm going to either make you give yourself up in order for me to feel better, or I'm going to give myself up in order for me to feel better and nothing's going wrong when that happens. That's the function it forces you up against. Are you going to be clean about this? Or are you going to be dirty about this? That's it. Adults don't get a choice between pain and no pain. The choice. Adults get a choice between am I going to do this clean? Am I going to do this dirty? The choice the other choice of possibly not having as much pain that happens after you make this one. M Wow, does that make sense?

This is c Yeah, it makes deep sense.

This is c Yeah, it makes deep sense.

And I think you know anyone listening because that hits on a lot for a lot of people. And that piece, you know, part of the way we were just speaking to it was a little more sexual in nature, But that is that vulnerability piece is with everything, with everything, with absolutely the function of every kind of relationship, not just a coupling or romantic partnership right here.

And I think you know anyone listening because that hits on a lot for a lot of people. And that piece, you know, part of the way we were just speaking to it was a little more sexual in nature, But that is that vulnerability piece is with everything, with everything, with absolutely the function of every kind of relationship, not just a coupling or romantic partnership right here.

So there are particular things in relationships that we say we let's just agree to disagree that we actually can't agree to disagree about. Oh tell me, right, you can't agree to disagree to have half a baby. Like if somebody is in a relationship and you're in relationship with somebody and you want to have a baby and your partner doesn't, there is no agree to disagree with that. Yeah, you were going to grind, You are going to fight because it is about importance. Is this important to you?

So there are particular things in relationships that we say we let's just agree to disagree that we actually can't agree to disagree about. Oh tell me, right, you can't agree to disagree to have half a baby. Like if somebody is in a relationship and you're in relationship with somebody and you want to have a baby and your partner doesn't, there is no agree to disagree with that. Yeah, you were going to grind, You are going to fight because it is about importance. Is this important to you?

Read it?

Read it?

Disagree is usually a way to get around the most ardent issue. That mean that that's about usually people's integrity. I am and I want these particular things. You want these particular things, and they're juxtaposed to each other. We can't agree to disagree about that. Yeah, we're gonna have to rub and grind and fight and then see what emerges from that. And people don't want to do that. They want to come into a therapist and pay the therapist all that money for them to figure out a figure out the to get a solution for the problem. There is no solution. There's only emergence. Grow up, and you keep not wanting to grow up. This is a conundrum that is not to be fixed. Does that make sense deeply?

Disagree is usually a way to get around the most ardent issue. That mean that that's about usually people's integrity. I am and I want these particular things. You want these particular things, and they're juxtaposed to each other. We can't agree to disagree about that. Yeah, we're gonna have to rub and grind and fight and then see what emerges from that. And people don't want to do that. They want to come into a therapist and pay the therapist all that money for them to figure out a figure out the to get a solution for the problem. There is no solution. There's only emergence. Grow up, and you keep not wanting to grow up. This is a conundrum that is not to be fixed. Does that make sense deeply?

What I'm hearing especially is you know part of the reason there's no solution and there's nothing to be fixed is because there is something that must be created, and that creation will either be too deciding that there will be a shared interest, a shared desire that they feed over time over time, and or we are going into separate ways and now it's time to create our individual paths.

What I'm hearing especially is you know part of the reason there's no solution and there's nothing to be fixed is because there is something that must be created, and that creation will either be too deciding that there will be a shared interest, a shared desire that they feed over time over time, and or we are going into separate ways and now it's time to create our individual paths.

And it becomes clear when you do it cleanly as opposed to going around it.

And it becomes clear when you do it cleanly as opposed to going around it.

Can can we speak on the importance of integrity? Can you give?

Can can we speak on the importance of integrity? Can you give?

Because you know, I think something within a lot of our communities is we have different definitions than perhaps other people. We've learned words, applied uses to words in different ways. Right, So if you would share your definition of integrity and how that operates in relationship.

Because you know, I think something within a lot of our communities is we have different definitions than perhaps other people. We've learned words, applied uses to words in different ways. Right, So if you would share your definition of integrity and how that operates in relationship.

Integrity is that thing that's literally tied to creation and purpose. Integrity is that thing that when you're by yourself, that gnaws that you, just says, this could be different, and you're not yes, in alignment with what could be right.

Integrity is that thing that's literally tied to creation and purpose. Integrity is that thing that when you're by yourself, that gnaws that you, just says, this could be different, and you're not yes, in alignment with what could be right.

Not in alignment with what could.

Not in alignment with what could.

Be Integrity is that piece that says, there's something I'm tied to, something other than just what I want. I'm tied to creation itself. It gnaws that you. It's not butterflies on your nose, right, It's not like love and rainbows. It is the thing that says, are you going to live into the person you want to be and also be connected to other human beings that are important to you. Now that might not You may get the answer coming from the other side, as the other side where the person says, I don't want to do this with you anymore. Right, But though that decision can come from integrity or fear. And many times we haven't been conditioned in hone to know what the integrity piece, how that sense it's in our body, how we notice it. Yeah, we know the fear piece. We know what that terror is like. And what I'm trying to get people to understand is that there's a resource here. There's another resource that will allow us to work with it differently, but it has to be cultivated.

Be Integrity is that piece that says, there's something I'm tied to, something other than just what I want. I'm tied to creation itself. It gnaws that you. It's not butterflies on your nose, right, It's not like love and rainbows. It is the thing that says, are you going to live into the person you want to be and also be connected to other human beings that are important to you. Now that might not You may get the answer coming from the other side, as the other side where the person says, I don't want to do this with you anymore. Right, But though that decision can come from integrity or fear. And many times we haven't been conditioned in hone to know what the integrity piece, how that sense it's in our body, how we notice it. Yeah, we know the fear piece. We know what that terror is like. And what I'm trying to get people to understand is that there's a resource here. There's another resource that will allow us to work with it differently, but it has to be cultivated.

It has to be cultivated the way that I experience integrity. It's my north star. So integrity for me is like that internal GPS.

It has to be cultivated the way that I experience integrity. It's my north star. So integrity for me is like that internal GPS.

That's exactly.

That's exactly.

I have a deep commitment to my integrity. So it's like, even if it's something I really want, that feeling comes in, it doesn't matter, have to follow the internal guidance.

I have a deep commitment to my integrity. So it's like, even if it's something I really want, that feeling comes in, it doesn't matter, have to follow the internal guidance.

And a lot of people and this is why I talk about conditioning and tempering, like the running of the marathon, A lot of people think that this is something that does not have to be cultivated. Yeah, we think we should have it right, and there is a piece that's tied to creation that we have, but a lot of us haven't cultivated our embodied sense of it. Yes right, yes, so so so would look like we look sometimes what looks like integ what looks like integrity is really intractability. Right, Is that I'm that fast? Right? People mistake those types of things sometimes as integrity when it's really another way around things sometimes, and that's this is the this is the interrogation pieces, right, and so a lot of my work is really about slowing down to be to give yourself enough time to interrogate things.

And a lot of people and this is why I talk about conditioning and tempering, like the running of the marathon, A lot of people think that this is something that does not have to be cultivated. Yeah, we think we should have it right, and there is a piece that's tied to creation that we have, but a lot of us haven't cultivated our embodied sense of it. Yes right, yes, so so so would look like we look sometimes what looks like integ what looks like integrity is really intractability. Right, Is that I'm that fast? Right? People mistake those types of things sometimes as integrity when it's really another way around things sometimes, and that's this is the this is the interrogation pieces, right, and so a lot of my work is really about slowing down to be to give yourself enough time to interrogate things.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to speak about practices. One of the things that we talked about last night as we were kind of diving into your booking and the Q and A was around not when you're when you're in a space like this as a couple, perhaps right when you are a monster in love, it's not about creating more shared experiences as a couple, right, Can you please talk about this piece?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to speak about practices. One of the things that we talked about last night as we were kind of diving into your booking and the Q and A was around not when you're when you're in a space like this as a couple, perhaps right when you are a monster in love, it's not about creating more shared experiences as a couple, right, Can you please talk about this piece?

Yea, so so so I think about it like, you know, when when we get into a relationship with somebody and the quote unquote too shall become one right type of thing and we're living our lives right, and you know this is this is one of the problems that I have when people say my better half, right, as if it's as if it's as if you were half and the other person made you whole the moment that you have, the moment you start working with that concept. If somebody's happy you, they get so in everything, right, It is a it is it is it is, it is, it is. It is a we purposely put ourselves in vulnerable positions, right, because we be conditioned to do so. This idea of half and this idea of the two shell become one, puts us in a position to where our partners are are. It's what I call reflected sense of self, right, reflected sense of self, And this is from one of my mentors, doctor Davis Narsha. Reflected sense of self is that when I look at you, my sense of who I am is reflected in your eyes back to me. So if you love me, I'm lovable. If you're disappointed at me, I'm disappointing. Right, And a lot of us have those types of relationship with people, and so we don't have any sense of our own sense of self. There is my sense is of other, a other sense of self as opposed to my own sense of self myself. Right, it's both right. It matters to me what you think about me, but it matters to me what I think about me. Right, not letting go of you in order to be with me, I can hold both. That's the conditioning pieces, right, and so for me a lot of times what happens in relationships is these concepts around being in or your better half, your partner, being your better half pushes us into gridlocks. Right. That could be emergent, could help us grow up, but a lot of times just keep us at each other's throat, right, because you matter too much? Right, And when I say that, I'm not saying I'm trying to that you shouldn't matter to me. Saying many times you're mattering supersedes MyD mattering.

Yea, so so so I think about it like, you know, when when we get into a relationship with somebody and the quote unquote too shall become one right type of thing and we're living our lives right, and you know this is this is one of the problems that I have when people say my better half, right, as if it's as if it's as if you were half and the other person made you whole the moment that you have, the moment you start working with that concept. If somebody's happy you, they get so in everything, right, It is a it is it is it is, it is, it is. It is a we purposely put ourselves in vulnerable positions, right, because we be conditioned to do so. This idea of half and this idea of the two shell become one, puts us in a position to where our partners are are. It's what I call reflected sense of self, right, reflected sense of self, And this is from one of my mentors, doctor Davis Narsha. Reflected sense of self is that when I look at you, my sense of who I am is reflected in your eyes back to me. So if you love me, I'm lovable. If you're disappointed at me, I'm disappointing. Right, And a lot of us have those types of relationship with people, and so we don't have any sense of our own sense of self. There is my sense is of other, a other sense of self as opposed to my own sense of self myself. Right, it's both right. It matters to me what you think about me, but it matters to me what I think about me. Right, not letting go of you in order to be with me, I can hold both. That's the conditioning pieces, right, and so for me a lot of times what happens in relationships is these concepts around being in or your better half, your partner, being your better half pushes us into gridlocks. Right. That could be emergent, could help us grow up, but a lot of times just keep us at each other's throat, right, because you matter too much? Right, And when I say that, I'm not saying I'm trying to that you shouldn't matter to me. Saying many times you're mattering supersedes MyD mattering.

Deeply.

Deeply.

Well, Resma and I are talking really large concepts like these are actually the things that we're kind of maybe even sound casual about that we are expressing right now are the fundamental pieces, the foundational pieces of how we know love or don't, how we love or hate ourselves throughout our lives, what we're able to have access to. So something I really want to center for everyone listening is the gravity of this, right, like this piece that you just expressed, talking about the inner workings, talking about the mechanisms that take place in people of how for instance, a lot of language that is in important that we're discussing but is sometimes misunderstood or really labeled, is the dynamic of like a narcissistic relationship or codependent relationship. And granted, if you find yourself with a narcissist, please run run fast. And a lot of what Resma just described is what is going on inside of that body of the narcissist and inside of the body of what is often referred to as the empathic person or a codependent person. And so it's about really juggling and againstness of self and trying to find an outlet forward while also not revealing too much about oneself and being committed to not being seen. And when you're committed to not being seen, we cause a wreckonable harm to one another into our family systems, right, and so generation because.

Well, Resma and I are talking really large concepts like these are actually the things that we're kind of maybe even sound casual about that we are expressing right now are the fundamental pieces, the foundational pieces of how we know love or don't, how we love or hate ourselves throughout our lives, what we're able to have access to. So something I really want to center for everyone listening is the gravity of this, right, like this piece that you just expressed, talking about the inner workings, talking about the mechanisms that take place in people of how for instance, a lot of language that is in important that we're discussing but is sometimes misunderstood or really labeled, is the dynamic of like a narcissistic relationship or codependent relationship. And granted, if you find yourself with a narcissist, please run run fast. And a lot of what Resma just described is what is going on inside of that body of the narcissist and inside of the body of what is often referred to as the empathic person or a codependent person. And so it's about really juggling and againstness of self and trying to find an outlet forward while also not revealing too much about oneself and being committed to not being seen. And when you're committed to not being seen, we cause a wreckonable harm to one another into our family systems, right, and so generation because.

It's it's such a wide view.

It's it's such a wide view.

This is how it happens, and so in the day to day programming, it may not seem like that big of a difference, right, It may just be like, oh man, we don't never get along. Oh yeah, yeah, we're arguous. Okay, if the kids here, Dad, you're in the thick of it. It seems natural, it seems normal, and it seems on par with what you're seeing in the rest of society on television, your friends, your family. But those mechanisms that seem like the smaller pieces, those are the seeds that create generational harm. Generational trauma and keep us from being able to love each other.

This is how it happens, and so in the day to day programming, it may not seem like that big of a difference, right, It may just be like, oh man, we don't never get along. Oh yeah, yeah, we're arguous. Okay, if the kids here, Dad, you're in the thick of it. It seems natural, it seems normal, and it seems on par with what you're seeing in the rest of society on television, your friends, your family. But those mechanisms that seem like the smaller pieces, those are the seeds that create generational harm. Generational trauma and keep us from being able to love each other.

Absolutely so. So I want to be clear here just as a therapist, that that there are a lot of terms that we use that people don't know what the hell are talking about. Like a lot of people are using, oh, they're a narcissist, they are this, they are that, they're and and really that's a diagnosedes like you know what I mean, yeah, and and and the idea like like I so this this piece around narcissism and being a narcissism, the underlying piece like narcissism, you know, borderline, all of these different things. You know what the root of all of those is trauma.

Absolutely so. So I want to be clear here just as a therapist, that that there are a lot of terms that we use that people don't know what the hell are talking about. Like a lot of people are using, oh, they're a narcissist, they are this, they are that, they're and and really that's a diagnosedes like you know what I mean, yeah, and and and the idea like like I so this this piece around narcissism and being a narcissism, the underlying piece like narcissism, you know, borderline, all of these different things. You know what the root of all of those is trauma.

Trauma.

Trauma.

We don't want to talk about that. Somebody who developed who has a narcissist person's personality. That's that is really if you, if you peel back the edges, most people who have a narcissistic personality have demonstrative trauma. Yeah right. I'm not even talking about the historical stuff yet. Yeah, I'm not even talking about the inner generational stuff. Yeah right. I'm not even talking about the persistent institutional stuff yet. Personally, many times these people have horrible trauma, Yeah right, immits and brutality, right, and so I just really try and you know, you know, sometimes you know, when you're when you're dealing with somebody that is harming you, sometimes the best thing that you can do for you and them is not allow them to harm you anything.

We don't want to talk about that. Somebody who developed who has a narcissist person's personality. That's that is really if you, if you peel back the edges, most people who have a narcissistic personality have demonstrative trauma. Yeah right. I'm not even talking about the historical stuff yet. Yeah, I'm not even talking about the inner generational stuff. Yeah right. I'm not even talking about the persistent institutional stuff yet. Personally, many times these people have horrible trauma, Yeah right, immits and brutality, right, and so I just really try and you know, you know, sometimes you know, when you're when you're dealing with somebody that is harming you, sometimes the best thing that you can do for you and them is not allow them to harm you anything.

Yes, that's the choice. That's that's the choice. And so fixing it's a removing.

Yes, that's the choice. That's that's the choice. And so fixing it's a removing.

And so so so for me, rather than try and like, Okay, you know this person is narcissistic, this person is this, this person is you know, borderline and bipolar and all that different type of stuff. I think I think, I think we would be better served, especially in relationships, especially in our communities and communities of culture. I believe that we would be better served by really understanding that sometimes you get into a relationship with somebody who you need to not be in a relationship with, and and and that and that usually the things that show up in the relationship are teaching you and telling you to make moves, and a lot of times you don't make the move. That goes back to the integrity pieces, right, is you know there there. I've worked with clients sometimes and they'll come in and they'll say things like I keep picking the wrong person. Help me pick better people. And the thing I always say is the common denominator in this whole piece is you. What aren't you inquiring into? Right? I'm not saying that for you to try and find what the defect is. I'm saying there's a particular patterning that keeps showing up in terms of the people that you're bringing into your life. If you refuse to inquire into that, and you keep saying it's them them them them them them them, you're going to be doing this for the next forty years. Remember what I said yesterday about many times one of the reasons why people can't unhook from things is because they're coming at it from their virtue. Yeah, that virtue piece like I'm a good dude, I'm a good person, high, I'm high value. Yah.

And so so so for me, rather than try and like, Okay, you know this person is narcissistic, this person is this, this person is you know, borderline and bipolar and all that different type of stuff. I think I think, I think we would be better served, especially in relationships, especially in our communities and communities of culture. I believe that we would be better served by really understanding that sometimes you get into a relationship with somebody who you need to not be in a relationship with, and and and that and that usually the things that show up in the relationship are teaching you and telling you to make moves, and a lot of times you don't make the move. That goes back to the integrity pieces, right, is you know there there. I've worked with clients sometimes and they'll come in and they'll say things like I keep picking the wrong person. Help me pick better people. And the thing I always say is the common denominator in this whole piece is you. What aren't you inquiring into? Right? I'm not saying that for you to try and find what the defect is. I'm saying there's a particular patterning that keeps showing up in terms of the people that you're bringing into your life. If you refuse to inquire into that, and you keep saying it's them them them them them them them, you're going to be doing this for the next forty years. Remember what I said yesterday about many times one of the reasons why people can't unhook from things is because they're coming at it from their virtue. Yeah, that virtue piece like I'm a good dude, I'm a good person, high, I'm high value. Yah.

Yeah, that's the new one that want to say.

Yeah, that's the new one that want to say.

Everybody, I'm high value. I'm right. The problem is that virtues always have limitations, and the limitations usually show up when you choose another person. Limitations don't usually show up when you're by yourself.

Everybody, I'm high value. I'm right. The problem is that virtues always have limitations, and the limitations usually show up when you choose another person. Limitations don't usually show up when you're by yourself.

Why do limitations show up right when you're with the person.

Why do limitations show up right when you're with the person.

Because your choices become finite the moment that you choose another person, you become vulnerable, and if you have it being able to ma tabolize the energy of vulnerability, you begin to make the moves to try and lessen the vulnerability, right and so and so I'm a high value. It's cool when I'm by myself, yeah, in theory, but when when I'm dating another guy and that value and then I'm getting reflected sense of self and I'm I'm high value and the person's looking at me is like, you're a mean person. Yeah, you're mean. I'm high value though your mean as hell, Like like I try and come and touch you, and you like, you're like you push me away, But I'm high value. You're mean. That's the that's because because you're coming at it from a virtue. And that's not to say you should not have virtue, but realize that your virtue always has a limitation attached to it, and no matter which way you turn your head, you're going you're never going to be able to see it. What actually has to happen is that people in your life help you take that virtue and help that limitation go offline. So you have to contend with it. Right, But what normally happens for people, is that the moment that it goes offline, they say, you're making me feel bad about myself, You're not a good person, you're not supportive, you don't love me, right, and then they slowly get it right back in the linement and then they can't see it again.

Because your choices become finite the moment that you choose another person, you become vulnerable, and if you have it being able to ma tabolize the energy of vulnerability, you begin to make the moves to try and lessen the vulnerability, right and so and so I'm a high value. It's cool when I'm by myself, yeah, in theory, but when when I'm dating another guy and that value and then I'm getting reflected sense of self and I'm I'm high value and the person's looking at me is like, you're a mean person. Yeah, you're mean. I'm high value though your mean as hell, Like like I try and come and touch you, and you like, you're like you push me away, But I'm high value. You're mean. That's the that's because because you're coming at it from a virtue. And that's not to say you should not have virtue, but realize that your virtue always has a limitation attached to it, and no matter which way you turn your head, you're going you're never going to be able to see it. What actually has to happen is that people in your life help you take that virtue and help that limitation go offline. So you have to contend with it. Right, But what normally happens for people, is that the moment that it goes offline, they say, you're making me feel bad about myself, You're not a good person, you're not supportive, you don't love me, right, and then they slowly get it right back in the linement and then they can't see it again.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, And what I'm hearing and what you're saying, and this is what so many people do, and not as a judgment, but I share you know, it's creating this monument as your identity exactly right, like coming up with out side.

Yeah, And what I'm hearing and what you're saying, and this is what so many people do, and not as a judgment, but I share you know, it's creating this monument as your identity exactly right, like coming up with out side.

And that's part of the danger of.

And that's part of the danger of.

What this kind of last ten years, part of our cultural narrative around making an elevator pitch for everything, right, like having to come up with on your Instagram the quick bio that listen sustain you know sufficiently describes who you are and so people can get it. I do this, and it's like you're creating this container of limitation. Sure that, really, especially in relationship, can tricks any ability to have vulnerability. I want to ask you one more question about vulnerability. So we talked about the mechanic of the mechanism of why you want to withdraw vulnerability in relationship when that is catalyzed in someone. What does that look like someone looking to withdraw vulnerability from the relationship, from the friendship, from whatever the partnership.

What this kind of last ten years, part of our cultural narrative around making an elevator pitch for everything, right, like having to come up with on your Instagram the quick bio that listen sustain you know sufficiently describes who you are and so people can get it. I do this, and it's like you're creating this container of limitation. Sure that, really, especially in relationship, can tricks any ability to have vulnerability. I want to ask you one more question about vulnerability. So we talked about the mechanic of the mechanism of why you want to withdraw vulnerability in relationship when that is catalyzed in someone. What does that look like someone looking to withdraw vulnerability from the relationship, from the friendship, from whatever the partnership.

Ishave you ever been with somebody and things are going well and then something happens and you don't know what the hell it is, but you have sense that sweetness has been removed. You don't know what you know what I mean? Yeah, that's the piece, it's not. That's when you're watching people struggle with their vulnerability. The first thing to go is not is not nice things or saying nice things. The first thing to go that we don't that we haven't been conditioned to pick up on vibratorially, is sweetness. Think about what I'm saying. We all know it, We all know that piece. The first thing to go is the sweetness. Yeah, yeah, they're not the look, not the love, not the right, the sweetness.

Ishave you ever been with somebody and things are going well and then something happens and you don't know what the hell it is, but you have sense that sweetness has been removed. You don't know what you know what I mean? Yeah, that's the piece, it's not. That's when you're watching people struggle with their vulnerability. The first thing to go is not is not nice things or saying nice things. The first thing to go that we don't that we haven't been conditioned to pick up on vibratorially, is sweetness. Think about what I'm saying. We all know it, We all know that piece. The first thing to go is the sweetness. Yeah, yeah, they're not the look, not the love, not the right, the sweetness.

There is a layer of that sweet authenticity that gets removed, and it's not something that you can fully call out. And so the person means, who are not to gaslight you about it.

There is a layer of that sweet authenticity that gets removed, and it's not something that you can fully call out. And so the person means, who are not to gaslight you about it.

Because they don't know it. They have not because we haven't been conditioned with understanding the vibration of that all we know is that something was there that's that's now missing and I don't even know what was there.

Because they don't know it. They have not because we haven't been conditioned with understanding the vibration of that all we know is that something was there that's that's now missing and I don't even know what was there.

Yes, Yes, it's hard to develop the language for.

Yes, Yes, it's hard to develop the language for.

And that's why I say the communal pieces right that we keep trying to figure this stuff out individually and it's really a communal cultivation that we're trying to do.

And that's why I say the communal pieces right that we keep trying to figure this stuff out individually and it's really a communal cultivation that we're trying to do.

This is so good, my brother Resma, as we close out this, I know that's why.

This is so good, my brother Resma, as we close out this, I know that's why.

That's why everybody wants to have that apart podcast.

That's why everybody wants to have that apart podcast.

We can figure it out if you would share with the audience a piece of soul work, a practice of digesting this conversation and making it a little more exploratory in their lives until we need again next week.

We can figure it out if you would share with the audience a piece of soul work, a practice of digesting this conversation and making it a little more exploratory in their lives until we need again next week.

Absolutely. So one of the first things I want to tell people is that this culture and this philosophy inherently disorients us. There's a constant disorientation, and so one of the things I talk about is that. And it's particularly for black bodies. I'm talking to black bodies right now. We have this sense that we walk around and we don't share it with each other. It's we think it's an individual piece, but it's actually communal. We have the sense that that there's something getting ready to happen. The next shoot is about the drop that something is happening, is going to happen, right, and I'm gonna have to deal with it. Right. That is a prevailing kind of embodied sense that we have. And so on. When I'm working with bodies of culture in my office, one of the first kind of things that I work with them on is orienting. Right. So like that couple that I'm talking to you about, one of the first things that I've done with them is and this is just to set the kind of foundation piece is for them to start orienting. And what does that mean. That means that when you go into someplace or someplace that's familiar or someplace that's unfamiliar, it doesn't matter. Literally stop for a moment and look around the room, particularly behind you. Right. Why is that important? Because there we have been conditioned that something is going to happen to us and we better not focus on that, just move forward, right. But yet that energetic kind of sense is still there, So looking behind you can be over time, you can condition your body to begin to go, oh, there's nothing behind it. I tell black people to do this all the time, right, start orienting, right, let your body, because your body is going to be like watch it, something's happening, watch it. Oh you know, I don't call microaggressions. I just call them aggressions. That's an aggression, right, it's coming, be mindful of right. And so what I say is look behind you, look up, look down, notice colors, notice things, and just find the windows, the doors and the exits. Why because many we come from nervous systems. Who if we stay, we died. If we left, we died. It's the double bind. So let your body actually see in this moment and this time I can leave. Yes.

Absolutely. So one of the first things I want to tell people is that this culture and this philosophy inherently disorients us. There's a constant disorientation, and so one of the things I talk about is that. And it's particularly for black bodies. I'm talking to black bodies right now. We have this sense that we walk around and we don't share it with each other. It's we think it's an individual piece, but it's actually communal. We have the sense that that there's something getting ready to happen. The next shoot is about the drop that something is happening, is going to happen, right, and I'm gonna have to deal with it. Right. That is a prevailing kind of embodied sense that we have. And so on. When I'm working with bodies of culture in my office, one of the first kind of things that I work with them on is orienting. Right. So like that couple that I'm talking to you about, one of the first things that I've done with them is and this is just to set the kind of foundation piece is for them to start orienting. And what does that mean. That means that when you go into someplace or someplace that's familiar or someplace that's unfamiliar, it doesn't matter. Literally stop for a moment and look around the room, particularly behind you. Right. Why is that important? Because there we have been conditioned that something is going to happen to us and we better not focus on that, just move forward, right. But yet that energetic kind of sense is still there, So looking behind you can be over time, you can condition your body to begin to go, oh, there's nothing behind it. I tell black people to do this all the time, right, start orienting, right, let your body, because your body is going to be like watch it, something's happening, watch it. Oh you know, I don't call microaggressions. I just call them aggressions. That's an aggression, right, it's coming, be mindful of right. And so what I say is look behind you, look up, look down, notice colors, notice things, and just find the windows, the doors and the exits. Why because many we come from nervous systems. Who if we stay, we died. If we left, we died. It's the double bind. So let your body actually see in this moment and this time I can leave. Yes.

Yeah, And I'd love to suggest for everyone as well, some of that beautiful mirror work. Really notice how you feel when you see your reflection or how you try and avoid it exactly. Yeah, there's there's real learning any against That's exactly what come up. You know, if you if you find yourself wanting to reject your own reflection, don't judge it. Take the time that you need in between rooking at yourself, but begin to get curious about it. Where did that feeling come from? And how can we soften it? How can we dismantle it? Resma meinikan newest book Monsters and Love is in stores now, and of course you can still pick up My Grandmother's Hands, The Quaking of America, my brother.

Yeah, And I'd love to suggest for everyone as well, some of that beautiful mirror work. Really notice how you feel when you see your reflection or how you try and avoid it exactly. Yeah, there's there's real learning any against That's exactly what come up. You know, if you if you find yourself wanting to reject your own reflection, don't judge it. Take the time that you need in between rooking at yourself, but begin to get curious about it. Where did that feeling come from? And how can we soften it? How can we dismantle it? Resma meinikan newest book Monsters and Love is in stores now, and of course you can still pick up My Grandmother's Hands, The Quaking of America, my brother.

Thank you for joining.

Thank you for joining.

Us, Love you, love you, thanks, thanks.

Us, Love you, love you, thanks, thanks.

Thanks, all right, thank you for joining us for another episode of Deeply Well. Take your time really connecting with the practice is shared, really connecting with the word shared. There are some things that may start to come up, and as always, get curious and if it feels overwhelming, get connected and get supported in the way that you're able to have that show up in your life. Meditate, Please connect to your daily practice and we'll be back next week.