You're listening to AC N A podcast.

You're listening to AC N A podcast.

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Deep Dive. It's that special podcast with Christina and I Steven. And today we're talking about a certain type of mobility device. P MA si know about P MD. Those were like the E scooters. I remember some time back we had to ban them because they were causing such a mess in our streets. That's right. But P MA S, that's a personal mobility aid. The P MA S are used by elderly and

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Deep Dive. It's that special podcast with Christina and I Steven. And today we're talking about a certain type of mobility device. P MA si know about P MD. Those were like the E scooters. I remember some time back we had to ban them because they were causing such a mess in our streets. That's right. But P MA S, that's a personal mobility aid. The P MA S are used by elderly and

people with medical conditions. Now PM DS though are regulated, you cannot be a non U 2272 version of it. Do you remember a certain type of battery that's legally allowed because of all the fires that were taking place, you know, but essentially that one, anyone can use a P MD. Yes, there's even a motorized luggage. Did you know about this? I've seen those in the airport.

people with medical conditions. Now PM DS though are regulated, you cannot be a non U 2272 version of it. Do you remember a certain type of battery that's legally allowed because of all the fires that were taking place, you know, but essentially that one, anyone can use a P MD. Yes, there's even a motorized luggage. Did you know about this? I've seen those in the airport.

I don't know. Does it classify under P MD? Will you ever be caught sitting on a motor? So I live in Yishun and I see a lot of able bodied people sometimes with families in tow, sitting on these big vehicles and they are on the footpath, that means a shared footpath with people and sometimes it sounds a bit scary and a bit dangerous.

I don't know. Does it classify under P MD? Will you ever be caught sitting on a motor? So I live in Yishun and I see a lot of able bodied people sometimes with families in tow, sitting on these big vehicles and they are on the footpath, that means a shared footpath with people and sometimes it sounds a bit scary and a bit dangerous.

I have seen that whole families on it and that's what we want to talk about today because these mobility devices are being used not only by those who need some support and assistance, but by able bodied people as well. And as you mentioned, bringing their whole families on a bit of a jolly as well. So why is this happening? You know what's going on and why do a certain group of people tend to use them more than others? Can we do anything about it? Can police do anything about it? Should we regulate it? These are the questions we have

I have seen that whole families on it and that's what we want to talk about today because these mobility devices are being used not only by those who need some support and assistance, but by able bodied people as well. And as you mentioned, bringing their whole families on a bit of a jolly as well. So why is this happening? You know what's going on and why do a certain group of people tend to use them more than others? Can we do anything about it? Can police do anything about it? Should we regulate it? These are the questions we have

with us to talk about. This are Michael Kwan, he is founder and CEO of project elevate. Hi Michael Michael uses A PM and Florence Chong. She's a member of the Active Mobility Advisory panel where she has been since 2015. Yes, but her day job is I'm an occupational therapist at Tan Sing Hospital. Ok. Let's jump right into it. Florence, we will start with you because you've been on the panel for several years now. We kind of tried to summarize the whole PM

with us to talk about. This are Michael Kwan, he is founder and CEO of project elevate. Hi Michael Michael uses A PM and Florence Chong. She's a member of the Active Mobility Advisory panel where she has been since 2015. Yes, but her day job is I'm an occupational therapist at Tan Sing Hospital. Ok. Let's jump right into it. Florence, we will start with you because you've been on the panel for several years now. We kind of tried to summarize the whole PM

PM in a very short way. Did we get it right. What is the real intent here in terms of these devices out and about the advisory panel, the role that it plays maybe you can explain to people. The advisory panel actually was created in 2015. The purpose is to actually encourage the active mobility landscape in Singapore, to get people to be Carli and also to use more of these active mobility devices in a safe and considerate manner. So that overall that we can make this a more

PM in a very short way. Did we get it right. What is the real intent here in terms of these devices out and about the advisory panel, the role that it plays maybe you can explain to people. The advisory panel actually was created in 2015. The purpose is to actually encourage the active mobility landscape in Singapore, to get people to be Carli and also to use more of these active mobility devices in a safe and considerate manner. So that overall that we can make this a more

spacious kind of commuting. And just for clarity, when you say active mobility devices, we're talking about bicycles a whole range. This is a whole range actually. So they can range from non motorized devices such as like bicycles, even like cake scooters, manual cake scooters, and also even the manual wheelchairs to motorize devices. On the other hand, e scooters, things like hoverboards, right to the PM, which are motorized, like the wheelchair that Michael is using now,

spacious kind of commuting. And just for clarity, when you say active mobility devices, we're talking about bicycles a whole range. This is a whole range actually. So they can range from non motorized devices such as like bicycles, even like cake scooters, manual cake scooters, and also even the manual wheelchairs to motorize devices. On the other hand, e scooters, things like hoverboards, right to the PM, which are motorized, like the wheelchair that Michael is using now,

as well as the mobility scooters. There's a huge range, pretty much anything that can help you get around. Is there some confusion because some people think that ok PM PM DS, everything is the same. There might be some confusion but actually the broad classification or whether they are actually motorized or not motorized. So as long as there's a battery and some kind of a motorized system that's driving control kind of driving control. Ok, Michael, maybe you can weigh in a little bit.

as well as the mobility scooters. There's a huge range, pretty much anything that can help you get around. Is there some confusion because some people think that ok PM PM DS, everything is the same. There might be some confusion but actually the broad classification or whether they are actually motorized or not motorized. So as long as there's a battery and some kind of a motorized system that's driving control kind of driving control. Ok, Michael, maybe you can weigh in a little bit.

So you've been using a PM for how

So you've been using a PM for how

long

long

around 20 years before that I was using elbow crutches, but my knee got very weak and the doctor wanted me to stop walking outside. I still walk at home. But walking outside when it comes to rain and things like that, I might actually hurt my knee if I fall. The cartilage is very loose. So that's why I switched to wheelchair, motorized wheelchair.

around 20 years before that I was using elbow crutches, but my knee got very weak and the doctor wanted me to stop walking outside. I still walk at home. But walking outside when it comes to rain and things like that, I might actually hurt my knee if I fall. The cartilage is very loose. So that's why I switched to wheelchair, motorized wheelchair.

So you must have seen the huge difference now on the roads.

So you must have seen the huge difference now on the roads.

Yeah. Yes, I

Yeah. Yes, I

do

do

tell me what's the thing that shocks you the most,

tell me what's the thing that shocks you the most,

one of the things is I say, able body to sit on this P MA and they do have a disabled sticker, stick on it and they think that they are disabled. But then after they reach a leave, they miraculously could stand up and go and deliver the food to me, that is fine. But one thing I am really concerned about is the width

one of the things is I say, able body to sit on this P MA and they do have a disabled sticker, stick on it and they think that they are disabled. But then after they reach a leave, they miraculously could stand up and go and deliver the food to me, that is fine. But one thing I am really concerned about is the width

of their chair sometimes at a pedestrian path. It's only that big. And if an opposite guy coming to me on the other side, we have to decide who is going to back up or who's going to get on the grass so that the other one can pass. So sometimes that would not only inconvenient, there will also be a little bit of aggressions as well. Like who

of their chair sometimes at a pedestrian path. It's only that big. And if an opposite guy coming to me on the other side, we have to decide who is going to back up or who's going to get on the grass so that the other one can pass. So sometimes that would not only inconvenient, there will also be a little bit of aggressions as well. Like who

gets to go first, right?

gets to go first, right?

Who is around and then I always hear the sound frequently

Who is around and then I always hear the sound frequently

as if I'm the one that is blocking them, right?

as if I'm the one that is blocking them, right?

Have you come into any like near collision, accidents, et cetera?

Have you come into any like near collision, accidents, et cetera?

Yeah, only at night sometimes when they do have lights that is too bright and they are going really fast. So I really have to really slow down.

Yeah, only at night sometimes when they do have lights that is too bright and they are going really fast. So I really have to really slow down.

Ok. When you say really fast,

Ok. When you say really fast,

I would say it may be two times the person walking speed

I would say it may be two times the person walking speed

and these devices are not meant to be going

and these devices are not meant to be going

that fast.

that fast.

Yeah, anything above 10 kilometers per hour is already very. So if you hit

Yeah, anything above 10 kilometers per hour is already very. So if you hit

somebody, they will fly. Right.

somebody, they will fly. Right.

Yes, I accidentally hit somebody once and that person got a bruise and basically I was just doing a turn and she cut my path. I I was like horning but sometimes pedestrians, they wear all these earphones and they cannot hear me coming and they just cut my path.

Yes, I accidentally hit somebody once and that person got a bruise and basically I was just doing a turn and she cut my path. I I was like horning but sometimes pedestrians, they wear all these earphones and they cannot hear me coming and they just cut my path.

So you've

So you've

actually raised a few things and maybe we touch on the first one that bit about whether able bodied people should be allowed to use these P MS because right now there is no regulation saying that you have to be

actually raised a few things and maybe we touch on the first one that bit about whether able bodied people should be allowed to use these P MS because right now there is no regulation saying that you have to be

disabled to use one of these, right? You are required to register, right? No, no registration at the moment. So by right, anyone can actually buy one of these and use them as they see fit right now. Currently it seems that way. Yes, but there will be other regulations gonna come at the end of next year. That's right.

disabled to use one of these, right? You are required to register, right? No, no registration at the moment. So by right, anyone can actually buy one of these and use them as they see fit right now. Currently it seems that way. Yes, but there will be other regulations gonna come at the end of next year. That's right.

Buyers PM uses to be those that actually have mobility challenges. And did that come about because of this? I guess what we might call abuse of in a way. Yes, the map actually did a review and through some focus groups with PM users, path users, seniors and all that. So this is one of the recommendations

Buyers PM uses to be those that actually have mobility challenges. And did that come about because of this? I guess what we might call abuse of in a way. Yes, the map actually did a review and through some focus groups with PM users, path users, seniors and all that. So this is one of the recommendations

that a me gave to the government. But just to play devil's advocate for a bit because even though I may not be disabled, I do have young Children, a family and you know, three or four of us can fit on this PM quite comfortably and it's great for bringing them to kindergarten to school nearby, go and buy my lunch from the coffee shop. If I'm using it responsibly,

that a me gave to the government. But just to play devil's advocate for a bit because even though I may not be disabled, I do have young Children, a family and you know, three or four of us can fit on this PM quite comfortably and it's great for bringing them to kindergarten to school nearby, go and buy my lunch from the coffee shop. If I'm using it responsibly,

why can't we allow it? The issue is that as we age, there will be more and more people who may require the use of P MS because they have a genuine medical needs. In that way, if we allow everyone to find it convenient to actually be able to use it, then there will be a lot of loading and overcrowding on our public pathways. And that will bring about inconvenience and sometimes like what Michael alluded to even aggression at times. And that's really going to get very unpleasant

why can't we allow it? The issue is that as we age, there will be more and more people who may require the use of P MS because they have a genuine medical needs. In that way, if we allow everyone to find it convenient to actually be able to use it, then there will be a lot of loading and overcrowding on our public pathways. And that will bring about inconvenience and sometimes like what Michael alluded to even aggression at times. And that's really going to get very unpleasant

and people like seniors and young Children may find it very dangerous to be walking along such paths, some of which are power sharing. You know, I was thinking about this for this group of people, this device in my mind anyway, saves money because one time they buy it off Carousel or tiktok shop or whatever, maybe $1000 under 2000, no petrol, no tax. It's such an easy way for them and also quite a lot of them

and people like seniors and young Children may find it very dangerous to be walking along such paths, some of which are power sharing. You know, I was thinking about this for this group of people, this device in my mind anyway, saves money because one time they buy it off Carousel or tiktok shop or whatever, maybe $1000 under 2000, no petrol, no tax. It's such an easy way for them and also quite a lot of them

do deliveries as well. So it doubles up as a means of affordable transport for a group of people.

do deliveries as well. So it doubles up as a means of affordable transport for a group of people.

Do you think this will go away? Even if we say, ok, you know what P MS can only be used for medical purposes and only six kilometers per hour, etcetera. Do you think this is something that we need to really look into?

Do you think this will go away? Even if we say, ok, you know what P MS can only be used for medical purposes and only six kilometers per hour, etcetera. Do you think this is something that we need to really look into?

I think this is quite an urgent issue actually because we have been hearing more feedback about the misuse and abuse of the P MS. So this is something that we need to tackle quite urgently. So there's a genuine need. So, but it just means that instead of using P MS, they will have to find other alternatives.

I think this is quite an urgent issue actually because we have been hearing more feedback about the misuse and abuse of the P MS. So this is something that we need to tackle quite urgently. So there's a genuine need. So, but it just means that instead of using P MS, they will have to find other alternatives.

I see P MS as real P MS not is because that disabled person is sitting on that

I see P MS as real P MS not is because that disabled person is sitting on that

is that the chair is really made for disabled people. Chairs like mine is really narrowed and compact.

is that the chair is really made for disabled people. Chairs like mine is really narrowed and compact.

Disabled people need to go into shopping malls, need to go into shops. We need to squeeze into narrow pathways even MRT and we need to be able to turn on a dime. What to say. It's those big chairs that super, super big that even I won't call them C PM. They are P MD. I see a lot of old people that sit on those micro chairs, the government is also going the right way in controlling the dimension.

Disabled people need to go into shopping malls, need to go into shops. We need to squeeze into narrow pathways even MRT and we need to be able to turn on a dime. What to say. It's those big chairs that super, super big that even I won't call them C PM. They are P MD. I see a lot of old people that sit on those micro chairs, the government is also going the right way in controlling the dimension.

And that is also a good thing. Now, if people do want to use this mobility device, then perhaps another way is that they look at PM DS that is already regulated.

And that is also a good thing. Now, if people do want to use this mobility device, then perhaps another way is that they look at PM DS that is already regulated.

Right.

Right.

Yeah, but that's too small for them to carry the entire family. I won't be surprised if you start seeing Ebis that have side car and wagon behind, you know, after a while

Yeah, but that's too small for them to carry the entire family. I won't be surprised if you start seeing Ebis that have side car and wagon behind, you know, after a while

they do know how to work around.

they do know how to work around.

Yeah, I mean, maybe there might be other ways like the market

Yeah, I mean, maybe there might be other ways like the market

lanes for those kinds of users, different paths, infrastructure or is that really too much like you have to focus right on who has the greatest need and how do we do it in the safest way possible? And imagine if we gave something created a path just for these PMA S, then cyclists would be saying we've been wanting a cycling lane for how long and

lanes for those kinds of users, different paths, infrastructure or is that really too much like you have to focus right on who has the greatest need and how do we do it in the safest way possible? And imagine if we gave something created a path just for these PMA S, then cyclists would be saying we've been wanting a cycling lane for how long and

now these guys get it, what's going on, you

now these guys get it, what's going on, you

know,

know,

to say really right now to create a path for P MA S, I'm a very active outdoor user. I go out very often. The funny thing is if I would say 10 P MA s go by, I'm the only one that is really a disabled person, the ratio of a disabled person that is out there. I don't know.

to say really right now to create a path for P MA S, I'm a very active outdoor user. I go out very often. The funny thing is if I would say 10 P MA s go by, I'm the only one that is really a disabled person, the ratio of a disabled person that is out there. I don't know.

I think we would need a dedicated path for ourselves. Yeah. So but even as the population gray and get older, these older people, they do just go from point to point and not, like, actively, like me running all over the

I think we would need a dedicated path for ourselves. Yeah. So but even as the population gray and get older, these older people, they do just go from point to point and not, like, actively, like me running all over the

island.

island.

Would it, would it help to have only certain areas or designated lanes? Again, it's like the park connected

Would it, would it help to have only certain areas or designated lanes? Again, it's like the park connected

because most of the time you're going from your block to the supermarket to the coffee shop, you generally are not getting on the M RT to travel to another area, right? There could be a lane dedicated to just allowing the P MS. But then again, it's back to the point of should everyone and anyone be able to access it? Yeah, this is a is a difficult issue to solve in the interim. There are a couple of problems, right.

because most of the time you're going from your block to the supermarket to the coffee shop, you generally are not getting on the M RT to travel to another area, right? There could be a lane dedicated to just allowing the P MS. But then again, it's back to the point of should everyone and anyone be able to access it? Yeah, this is a is a difficult issue to solve in the interim. There are a couple of problems, right.

The first one is fire CDF has reported in 2023 there were more fires involving assisted mobility devices. This is quite dangerous, especially when you live in corridors and they go into lifts and things like that. Is that something you guys worry about as well? Yes, we worry about these people actually trying to modify their devices and also use things like incompatible charges or put on additional kind of batteries

The first one is fire CDF has reported in 2023 there were more fires involving assisted mobility devices. This is quite dangerous, especially when you live in corridors and they go into lifts and things like that. Is that something you guys worry about as well? Yes, we worry about these people actually trying to modify their devices and also use things like incompatible charges or put on additional kind of batteries

that may be incompatible and and that may actually cause fire hazards. The thing is it's so easy to get it. So EV cars are getting more popular now in Singapore, you know, you can go on to any online platform, Shopee Lazada and buy a car charger for like 200 bucks. The kind that you literally plug into your home wall and plug into your car. It is not safe, it is not regulated. And I've experimented with one before it gets really hot. The point is that because the original

that may be incompatible and and that may actually cause fire hazards. The thing is it's so easy to get it. So EV cars are getting more popular now in Singapore, you know, you can go on to any online platform, Shopee Lazada and buy a car charger for like 200 bucks. The kind that you literally plug into your home wall and plug into your car. It is not safe, it is not regulated. And I've experimented with one before it gets really hot. The point is that because the original

one that you have to install would be about $3000. You know, so people think 200 bucks, 3000 and, you know, we're all cheap skates that way. Why are you looking for like a car battery? I mean, because I've had to charge it. Yeah, so the same thing with all these PMD, the batteries are out there, the non original versions are half the price. So it comes back to the point, right? Maybe Florence you can weigh in you. How do you regulate

one that you have to install would be about $3000. You know, so people think 200 bucks, 3000 and, you know, we're all cheap skates that way. Why are you looking for like a car battery? I mean, because I've had to charge it. Yeah, so the same thing with all these PMD, the batteries are out there, the non original versions are half the price. So it comes back to the point, right? Maybe Florence you can weigh in you. How do you regulate

this? People are just gonna buy all these cheap knockoffs. Anyway, these places are decentralized for the PM DS, the E scooters as well as the E bikes. They actually have the standards, the 2272, as well as the en 15194 standards to actually comply with. So the advice is always for the users to go back to the original manufacturers or the shop where they buy from, to actually

this? People are just gonna buy all these cheap knockoffs. Anyway, these places are decentralized for the PM DS, the E scooters as well as the E bikes. They actually have the standards, the 2272, as well as the en 15194 standards to actually comply with. So the advice is always for the users to go back to the original manufacturers or the shop where they buy from, to actually

get them to provide the batteries which are like original. How often do you get this service?

get them to provide the batteries which are like original. How often do you get this service?

I just changed my battery recently. Like that happens about a year and six months. I have to change it, but it's

I just changed my battery recently. Like that happens about a year and six months. I have to change it, but it's

two

two

1005 100

1005 100

for the battery

for the battery

just for the battery and searching on the internet. I can find $600. So

just for the battery and searching on the internet. I can find $600. So

that's why you have this problem. Right.

that's why you have this problem. Right.

This is an expensive chair and

This is an expensive chair and

the $600 to put in the expensive chance is not worth it. And I'm sitting on it, I can't run away, like normal

the $600 to put in the expensive chance is not worth it. And I'm sitting on it, I can't run away, like normal

catches fire while you're sitting on it.

catches fire while you're sitting on it.

Right.

Right.

I can't stand on a run.

I can't stand on a run.

So, do you think regulation will work? Do you think it's worked for PMD S? Would you say it has because we regulated it? And now they are definitely less fires too. I mean, there are less devices then there will be less fire.

So, do you think regulation will work? Do you think it's worked for PMD S? Would you say it has because we regulated it? And now they are definitely less fires too. I mean, there are less devices then there will be less fire.

You see less of them right on the road, for sure, for sure. You see a lot less. So you think regulation will work or there will always be people who stick a disability sticker and try to get away

You see less of them right on the road, for sure, for sure. You see a lot less. So you think regulation will work or there will always be people who stick a disability sticker and try to get away

with it.

with it.

There still will be. And when talking about P MD, I still see in woodlands, those P MD, they are not bicycle, power chair, it's like a bicycle, but it's all fully powered. Yeah. So sometimes this officer may

There still will be. And when talking about P MD, I still see in woodlands, those P MD, they are not bicycle, power chair, it's like a bicycle, but it's all fully powered. Yeah. So sometimes this officer may

stand there and try to catch, but sometimes they are too fast to catch anyway. So there will always be people to really weed it out totally is really very hard, but really making it so much less would actually be a really good thing already. Gradually over time, there may be no more. It's not immediate results, but gradually over time.

stand there and try to catch, but sometimes they are too fast to catch anyway. So there will always be people to really weed it out totally is really very hard, but really making it so much less would actually be a really good thing already. Gradually over time, there may be no more. It's not immediate results, but gradually over time.

Essentially, if you say every time before someone

Essentially, if you say every time before someone

wants to buy one of these devices, they have to show a letter which says I need this kind of mobility device that will naturally cut down the numbers

wants to buy one of these devices, they have to show a letter which says I need this kind of mobility device that will naturally cut down the numbers

for disabled people like us, we all are SG and able registered and we all have those SG enabled card instead of having a double regime to go and register again. Having that SG enabled card, you make it so much easier if you ask me to go, I got this SG enabled card. You want me to go and register my chair again.

for disabled people like us, we all are SG and able registered and we all have those SG enabled card instead of having a double regime to go and register again. Having that SG enabled card, you make it so much easier if you ask me to go, I got this SG enabled card. You want me to go and register my chair again.

It's like the double work. Why do I have to prove myself twice?

It's like the double work. Why do I have to prove myself twice?

Ok. So for the disabled folks, I can understand that but I'm thinking for elderly, right, let's say, you know, my mom, her leg is not doing too good. She's arthritis, et cetera. For me to register her for using a device might be a bit onerous, right? In your experience, will there be occasions where people like that could use the support of a device like A PM?

Ok. So for the disabled folks, I can understand that but I'm thinking for elderly, right, let's say, you know, my mom, her leg is not doing too good. She's arthritis, et cetera. For me to register her for using a device might be a bit onerous, right? In your experience, will there be occasions where people like that could use the support of a device like A PM?

But don't need a disability kind of sticker disability card is one of the recommendations that the map has given to the government to recognize some kind of existing disability. However, for those that are like you said, seniors, so some of them may have actually most of them will have undergone some kind of assessment. Yeah, so they would have been seeing some doctors. So the family doctor gives a note

But don't need a disability kind of sticker disability card is one of the recommendations that the map has given to the government to recognize some kind of existing disability. However, for those that are like you said, seniors, so some of them may have actually most of them will have undergone some kind of assessment. Yeah, so they would have been seeing some doctors. So the family doctor gives a note

say that ok, you can write this like for your driving license after a certain age, you got to go for your eyesight test and the doctor is going to say this guy still. So that's possible. Yes, possible. And some of them will have been assessed by the occupational therapist as well before assessing some of these subsidy scheme for it sounds. But actually when I think about it, it's also good. It means that there's someone checking on you to make sure that maybe you think I

say that ok, you can write this like for your driving license after a certain age, you got to go for your eyesight test and the doctor is going to say this guy still. So that's possible. Yes, possible. And some of them will have been assessed by the occupational therapist as well before assessing some of these subsidy scheme for it sounds. But actually when I think about it, it's also good. It means that there's someone checking on you to make sure that maybe you think I

only just need a crutch, but actually you may need more and there could be something more serious. So all the other way around like you are perfectly capable of walking, you just don't want to walk and to make it difficult for you to get a PM is a good thing because you should be walking active

only just need a crutch, but actually you may need more and there could be something more serious. So all the other way around like you are perfectly capable of walking, you just don't want to walk and to make it difficult for you to get a PM is a good thing because you should be walking active

as you.

as you.

Finally, my parents have two knee operation already. She walks a long way and she, her knee will hurt.

Finally, my parents have two knee operation already. She walks a long way and she, her knee will hurt.

But no matter how I pee, she wouldn't even use a cane or sit on a P MA because that's pride in her. They say I'm not that old. I find it funny is that people like us that we should walk, we can't, but you can walk, you don't want to. I was like, you know, I mean, can you give me, give me, I give you my chair.

But no matter how I pee, she wouldn't even use a cane or sit on a P MA because that's pride in her. They say I'm not that old. I find it funny is that people like us that we should walk, we can't, but you can walk, you don't want to. I was like, you know, I mean, can you give me, give me, I give you my chair.

Yeah. But in this case, I guess what we're concerned about is more that, you know, the P MA S are being used by a group and perhaps used for some of the wrong purposes. I mean, it is convenient but at the end of the day, those who really need it will then have some difficulty

Yeah. But in this case, I guess what we're concerned about is more that, you know, the P MA S are being used by a group and perhaps used for some of the wrong purposes. I mean, it is convenient but at the end of the day, those who really need it will then have some difficulty

because now there might be so many on our roads.

because now there might be so many on our roads.

But I see two things that I understand from their point of view, why they want to use it. Number one is that it's really less energy intensive, you can go faster and not using your own energy. And number two is that it start to generate revenue for you using it instead of it's only a pure liability or it's a cost, it generate money for you,

But I see two things that I understand from their point of view, why they want to use it. Number one is that it's really less energy intensive, you can go faster and not using your own energy. And number two is that it start to generate revenue for you using it instead of it's only a pure liability or it's a cost, it generate money for you,

right? That also as a motivation, I can understand why they want to use that, but perhaps they can still earn money but maybe in a better device, more

right? That also as a motivation, I can understand why they want to use that, but perhaps they can still earn money but maybe in a better device, more

regulated, maybe less. I don't know. Actually the alternative is if you want to make deliveries and make money from it too, then just get an E bike. If you don't need to bring your whole family with you, the only advantage of having A P is that it can carry more people, right? If you think about it, if I have to send my kid to kindergarten

regulated, maybe less. I don't know. Actually the alternative is if you want to make deliveries and make money from it too, then just get an E bike. If you don't need to bring your whole family with you, the only advantage of having A P is that it can carry more people, right? If you think about it, if I have to send my kid to kindergarten

in the morning, it's much easier for me to do it on my, on a bicycle too. You can carry one person on a bike so much effort to cycle. I'm just saying, have you ever tried an E bike? There's not much, you turn a few pedals and try it like, yeah, you don't need a lot of it. But you know what I mean? Once you are used to driving you like, man, I don want to take the Mr T. Yes,

in the morning, it's much easier for me to do it on my, on a bicycle too. You can carry one person on a bike so much effort to cycle. I'm just saying, have you ever tried an E bike? There's not much, you turn a few pedals and try it like, yeah, you don't need a lot of it. But you know what I mean? Once you are used to driving you like, man, I don want to take the Mr T. Yes,

I went on the MT just a few days ago and I was like, wow, this is nice welcome to the general public because it was, I realized it's cheaper than driving for that stretch. It was really convenient to take a train to. Yeah, it's fabulous. It's easy. Now, let's wrap up any, any, any last points you want to say Florence? Well, I just want to

I went on the MT just a few days ago and I was like, wow, this is nice welcome to the general public because it was, I realized it's cheaper than driving for that stretch. It was really convenient to take a train to. Yeah, it's fabulous. It's easy. Now, let's wrap up any, any, any last points you want to say Florence? Well, I just want to

say that for device users, please make sure that you charge safely. Yeah, make sure that you check the batteries regularly. They are not bloated, corroded or you know, having some powdery residue on them only go back to the manufacturers or the shops that sell you the device to have the parts replaced. Yeah,

say that for device users, please make sure that you charge safely. Yeah, make sure that you check the batteries regularly. They are not bloated, corroded or you know, having some powdery residue on them only go back to the manufacturers or the shops that sell you the device to have the parts replaced. Yeah,

that's really important because you think you're saving a few bucks. But the greater scheme of things, you actually will probably end up paying a lot more for it in other ways. That's right, Michael.

that's really important because you think you're saving a few bucks. But the greater scheme of things, you actually will probably end up paying a lot more for it in other ways. That's right, Michael.

I would like to say that everybody I wrote users. Yeah, we are all rushed for time. But we all can still be nice and courteous courtesy cannot be regulated as long as we are all nice, everything can work out. I can back off, you can back off or whatever. It's just, there's no need for any nice things.

I would like to say that everybody I wrote users. Yeah, we are all rushed for time. But we all can still be nice and courteous courtesy cannot be regulated as long as we are all nice, everything can work out. I can back off, you can back off or whatever. It's just, there's no need for any nice things.

What irritates me,

What irritates me,

people cycling, you can ring your bell. You know, it's like d versus the people who keep pressing the button to cross the street.

people cycling, you can ring your bell. You know, it's like d versus the people who keep pressing the button to cross the street.

Right? You hear all those, like booming, pumping music coming out and then you know,

Right? You hear all those, like booming, pumping music coming out and then you know,

something is coming

something is coming

here. Yeah. Ok. So will you ever ride A P? And who knows? I mean, we are an aging country. I'm getting old too. You know, my thing is when I was talking to my team about this as well and I think that

here. Yeah. Ok. So will you ever ride A P? And who knows? I mean, we are an aging country. I'm getting old too. You know, my thing is when I was talking to my team about this as well and I think that

there will always be a demand for a certain group of people because cost is a really big factor for them.

there will always be a demand for a certain group of people because cost is a really big factor for them.

I can understand what's motivating them to circumvent all the rules to do it. I do hope that we will come to a scenario where we don't exclude anybody, whoever needs this kind of mobility device is able to use them together with cars, bicycles, motorcycles, etcetera. So that's my view. Ok. Well, thanks so much for coming in and for sharing with us your thoughts on this. If you have any others do drop us a note. We're always happy to hear from you.

I can understand what's motivating them to circumvent all the rules to do it. I do hope that we will come to a scenario where we don't exclude anybody, whoever needs this kind of mobility device is able to use them together with cars, bicycles, motorcycles, etcetera. So that's my view. Ok. Well, thanks so much for coming in and for sharing with us your thoughts on this. If you have any others do drop us a note. We're always happy to hear from you.

A shout out to the team behind the Deep Dive podcast. It's Jaini Johari Tiffany, Ang, Joan Chan Sen and Tou Yan Yun sound mixing is by Ken Delbridge. See you real soon. Bye bye.

A shout out to the team behind the Deep Dive podcast. It's Jaini Johari Tiffany, Ang, Joan Chan Sen and Tou Yan Yun sound mixing is by Ken Delbridge. See you real soon. Bye bye.