Jake sits down with Snowball creator Ollie Wards to discuss how a family mystery became an international hit. They trace Ollie’s journey from the first recorded conversation with his dad – recorded under a hotel duvet – to the heart-pounding moment he found himself face-to-face with the con artist herself: Lezlie Manukian.

Along the way, they touch on the challenges of reporting on family, the psychology of scammers and their victims, and the strange kind of closure that comes when truth is messier than justice.

Listen to Deep Cover Presents: Snowball ad-free with a Pushkin+ subscription. Find Pushkin+ on the Deep Cover show page in Apple Podcasts or at pushkin.fm/plus.

Jake sits down with Snowball creator Ollie Wards to discuss how a family mystery became an international hit. They trace Ollie&rsquo;s journey from the first recorded conversation with his dad &ndash; recorded under a hotel duvet &ndash; to the heart-pounding moment he found himself face-to-face with the con artist herself: Lezlie Manukian.
Along the way, they touch on the challenges of reporting on family, the psychology of scammers and their victims, and the strange kind of closure that comes when truth is messier than justice.
Listen to Deep Cover Presents: Snowball ad-free with a Pushkin+ subscription. Find Pushkin+ on the Deep Cover show page in Apple Podcasts or at <a href="http://pushkin.fm/plus">pushkin.fm/plus</a>.

Deep Cover is a show about people who lead double lives. Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Jake Halpern reveals webs of deception and dark underworlds, through interviews with federal agents and convicted criminals. 

Deep Cover Presents: Snowball. A special limited series from the Unravel Podcast team at the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. Ollie Wards' family lost everything after their brush with a charming Californian con woman. As he embarks on a quest to find out how she did it, why she did it, and where she is now, he opens the door on a mystery that spans decades and across continents.

Binge episodes of Deep Cover Presents: Snowball early and ad-free with a Pushkin+ subscription. Find Pushkin+ on the Deep Cover show page in Apple Podcasts or at pushkin.fm/plus.

In the sixth season of Deep Cover: The Truth About Sarah, Jake Halpern and acclaimed investigative journalist Jess McHugh unravel an epic six-year deception that upended lives of countless people. Sarah Cavanaugh was many things: A decorated veteran. A Marine who saved her comrades. A young woman fighting cancer. She was stoic, humble, tough. In short: a hero. Sarah was everything people wanted her to be—until she wasn’t. Turns out, no one knew the real Sarah. Not her comrades. Not her wife. No one. Jake and Jess interview all of the key sources—including Sarah, herself—to tell this sprawling tale.

Season five covers the rise and fall of George Santos, the former Republican Congressman from New York, and the stories—many of which were not true—he told about his life and credentials.

Season four, The Nameless Man, tells the epic tale of two federal agents who investigate a rumor about a murder that supposedly took place 15 years prior. It is also the story of a family searching for answers about why their brother was killed. These two storylines collide in a courtroom in Philadelphia, where murder, memory, and morality go on trial.

Season three, Never Seen Again, tells the story of two women living on opposite sides of the country, who went missing in the summer of 1999. Seven years later, their stories collided when a small town detective got a tip and became convinced that if he could solve one mystery, he’d solve the other.

Season two, Mob Land, is about a high-rolling lawyer who joins forces with the feds to try to bring down one of the most powerful criminal syndicates in the country.

Season one, The Drug Wars, tells the story of an FBI agent who goes undercover with a biker gang, and follows a trail of clues that eventually leads to the US invasion of a foreign country.

Deep Cover drops on Mondays. To hear episodes early and ad-free, subscribe to Pushkin+ in Apple Podcasts or at pushkin.fm/plus.

iHeartMedia is the exclusive podcast partner of Pushkin Industries.

Deep Cover is a show about people who lead double lives. Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Jake Halpern reveals webs of deception and dark underworlds, through interviews with federal agents and convicted criminals.&nbsp;
Deep Cover Presents: Snowball. A special limited series from the Unravel Podcast team at the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. Ollie Wards' family lost everything after their brush with a charming Californian con woman. As he embarks on a quest to find out how she did it, why she did it, and where she is now, he opens the door on a mystery that spans decades and across continents.
Binge episodes of Deep Cover Presents: Snowball early and ad-free with a Pushkin+ subscription. Find Pushkin+ on the Deep Cover show page in Apple Podcasts or at&nbsp;<a href="http://pushkin.fm/plus">pushkin.fm/plus</a>.
<hr>
In the sixth season of Deep Cover: The Truth About Sarah, Jake Halpern and acclaimed investigative journalist Jess McHugh unravel an epic six-year deception that upended lives of countless people. Sarah Cavanaugh was many things: A decorated veteran. A Marine who saved her comrades. A young woman fighting cancer. She was stoic, humble, tough. In short: a hero. Sarah was everything people wanted her to be&mdash;until she wasn&rsquo;t. Turns out, no one knew the real Sarah. Not her comrades. Not her wife. No one. Jake and Jess interview all of the key sources&mdash;including Sarah, herself&mdash;to tell this sprawling tale.
Season five covers the rise and fall of George Santos, the former Republican Congressman from New York, and the stories&mdash;many of which were not true&mdash;he told about his life and credentials.
Season four, The Nameless Man, tells the epic tale of two federal agents who investigate a rumor about a murder that supposedly took place 15 years prior. It is also the story of a family searching for answers about why their brother was killed. These two storylines collide in a courtroom in Philadelphia, where murder, memory, and morality go on trial.
Season three, Never Seen Again, tells the story of two women living on opposite sides of the country, who went missing in the summer of 1999. Seven years later, their stories collided when a small town detective got a tip and became convinced that if he could solve one mystery, he&rsquo;d solve the other.
Season two, Mob Land, is about a high-rolling lawyer who joins forces with the feds to try to bring down one of the most powerful criminal syndicates in the country.
Season one, The Drug Wars, tells the story of an FBI agent who goes undercover with a biker gang, and follows a trail of clues that eventually leads to the US invasion of a foreign country.
Deep Cover drops on Mondays. To hear episodes early and ad-free, subscribe to Pushkin+ in Apple Podcasts or at <a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/join-pushkin">pushkin.fm/plus</a>.
iHeartMedia is the exclusive podcast partner of Pushkin Industries.

Deep Cover Presents: Snowball

Shame, Scams, and The Stories We Tell Ourselves (with Ollie Wards)

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/50c5cf12-3d42-4d3c-9bd2-b38c0152d691/transcript

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