Hey, fellow travelers. I'm Lori Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist advice column for the Atlantic.

Hey, fellow travelers. I'm Lori Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist advice column for the Atlantic.

And I'm Guy Wench. I'm the author of Emotional First Aid, and I write the Dear Guy advice column for Ted. And this is Dear Therapists.

And I'm Guy Wench. I'm the author of Emotional First Aid, and I write the Dear Guy advice column for Ted. And this is Dear Therapists.

Each week we invite you into a session so you can learn more about yourself by hearing how we help other people come to understand themselves better and make changes in their lives.

Each week we invite you into a session so you can learn more about yourself by hearing how we help other people come to understand themselves better and make changes in their lives.

So sit back and welcome to today's session.

So sit back and welcome to today's session.

This week we'll get updates from last season sessions to find out how our advice worked out.

This week we'll get updates from last season sessions to find out how our advice worked out.

A year later, there were two big aha moments that I had after we spoke. One of them was that if I'm not able to communicate on what I need, then he's never going to be able to understand. The other is that I realized I need to be able to communicate what I want, and in order for me to be able to communicate that, I need to figure it out first.

A year later, there were two big aha moments that I had after we spoke. One of them was that if I'm not able to communicate on what I need, then he's never going to be able to understand. The other is that I realized I need to be able to communicate what I want, and in order for me to be able to communicate that, I need to figure it out first.

A quick note, deo therapist is for informational purposes only, does not constitute medical or psychological advice, and is not a substitute for professional healthcare advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional, or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical or psychological condition. By submitting a letter, you are agreeing to let iHeartMedia use it in part or in full, and we may edit it for length and clarity and the sessions you'll hear. All names have been changed for the privacy of our fellow travelers. Hey, Laurie, Hi guy, I'm excited about this week's episode. We're checking in with four of our guests from season one, Savannah, Ryan and Beth, Danika and Aby. I'm really curious to hear how our sessions have impacted them since we last chatted.

A quick note, deo therapist is for informational purposes only, does not constitute medical or psychological advice, and is not a substitute for professional healthcare advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional, or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical or psychological condition. By submitting a letter, you are agreeing to let iHeartMedia use it in part or in full, and we may edit it for length and clarity and the sessions you'll hear. All names have been changed for the privacy of our fellow travelers. Hey, Laurie, Hi guy, I'm excited about this week's episode. We're checking in with four of our guests from season one, Savannah, Ryan and Beth, Danika and Aby. I'm really curious to hear how our sessions have impacted them since we last chatted.

Yahmi too. And what was interesting about those five people was that all of them had trouble communicating with someone about an important issue in their relationships, whether it was with a spouse or a sibling or a boyfriend.

Yahmi too. And what was interesting about those five people was that all of them had trouble communicating with someone about an important issue in their relationships, whether it was with a spouse or a sibling or a boyfriend.

Right.

Right.

They were avoid having hard conversations, and that's something so many people do.

They were avoid having hard conversations, and that's something so many people do.

Yeah, and if any of our listeners have been avoiding having a hard but necessary conversation, especially one that involves setting some boundaries, this episode is for you.

Yeah, and if any of our listeners have been avoiding having a hard but necessary conversation, especially one that involves setting some boundaries, this episode is for you.

The first person we're going to hear from today is Savannah. Savannah and her husband are a young couple, but they're dealing with a really difficult issue. Her husband has sickle cell anemia, which is a chronic condition that can interfere with daily life and sometimes cause tremendous pain.

The first person we're going to hear from today is Savannah. Savannah and her husband are a young couple, but they're dealing with a really difficult issue. Her husband has sickle cell anemia, which is a chronic condition that can interfere with daily life and sometimes cause tremendous pain.

And Savannah was trying to figure out how to be there for him as his partner, but also how to be there for herself because she was really struggling. But she was trying to protect him by avoiding having important discussions about what was actually going on between them, and that was having an impact on their marriage. So let's get a reminder of last season's session.

And Savannah was trying to figure out how to be there for him as his partner, but also how to be there for herself because she was really struggling. But she was trying to protect him by avoiding having important discussions about what was actually going on between them, and that was having an impact on their marriage. So let's get a reminder of last season's session.

There was this one supplement that his doctor recommended that's supposed to help, but he hasn't been taking it in the quantity that he's supposed.

There was this one supplement that his doctor recommended that's supposed to help, but he hasn't been taking it in the quantity that he's supposed.

To be, and so it wasn't really helping.

To be, and so it wasn't really helping.

Do you know why he wasn't taking it? I don't, So what happens when you ask him?

Do you know why he wasn't taking it? I don't, So what happens when you ask him?

He kind of brushes it off and just says that he will or he forgets or something.

He kind of brushes it off and just says that he will or he forgets or something.

And then I try and remind him any things.

And then I try and remind him any things.

I'm putting too much emphasis onto this supplement and it's supposed to.

I'm putting too much emphasis onto this supplement and it's supposed to.

Have some benefits for sickle cell patients.

Have some benefits for sickle cell patients.

You know what I'm hearing is that when you say he brushes it off, I think you both brush it off, because what happens is you're talking about take the supplement, don't take the supplement as.

You know what I'm hearing is that when you say he brushes it off, I think you both brush it off, because what happens is you're talking about take the supplement, don't take the supplement as.

Opposed to what's going on emotionally for both of you.

Opposed to what's going on emotionally for both of you.

And this is in part why you wrote to us being able to talk to him more about Look, this is really hot for me and I need us to talk. What's your fear.

And this is in part why you wrote to us being able to talk to him more about Look, this is really hot for me and I need us to talk. What's your fear.

I'm definitely scared that our marriage could fall apart.

I'm definitely scared that our marriage could fall apart.

Wow, that took me right back to the session. So let's hear how things are going for her now.

Wow, that took me right back to the session. So let's hear how things are going for her now.

Hy learning guy.

Hy learning guy.

One of the biggest changes that's happened is not my husband and I moved back to the East Coast, which is where we're originally from. We are now much closer to both of our family as all of our friends, and we just have this huge support network that's been really beneficial for both of us over the past few months, and so we're really really excited to be back and be closer to the people who are most important to us.

One of the biggest changes that's happened is not my husband and I moved back to the East Coast, which is where we're originally from. We are now much closer to both of our family as all of our friends, and we just have this huge support network that's been really beneficial for both of us over the past few months, and so we're really really excited to be back and be closer to the people who are most important to us.

Well, it's great to hear that they move closer to family and friends, because when someone has a chronic illness, getting social support and having people to go to for help, and I mean help both practically and emotionally, both for the person who has the chronic illness and also for their partner is so important. So having that network must be making everything a bit easier for both of them.

Well, it's great to hear that they move closer to family and friends, because when someone has a chronic illness, getting social support and having people to go to for help, and I mean help both practically and emotionally, both for the person who has the chronic illness and also for their partner is so important. So having that network must be making everything a bit easier for both of them.

That's exactly why we suggested this support group for Savannah, because her family and friends were so far away, so this is such a smart move on their part. I'm delighted to hear they did that. Let's hear some more from Savannah.

That's exactly why we suggested this support group for Savannah, because her family and friends were so far away, so this is such a smart move on their part. I'm delighted to hear they did that. Let's hear some more from Savannah.

After we spoke, we made those lists about things we wanted to talk to and went through and picked the other person's items and had.

After we spoke, we made those lists about things we wanted to talk to and went through and picked the other person's items and had.

Those conversations and it was really helpful.

Those conversations and it was really helpful.

And one of the things that came out of that is just me being more comfortable opening up and talking about the things that are important.

And one of the things that came out of that is just me being more comfortable opening up and talking about the things that are important.

And so since then.

And so since then.

We've had more open conversations, regardless of how hard they are, and we no longer need to follow the lists. It's a lot more natural now, so that has been really amazing to see.

We've had more open conversations, regardless of how hard they are, and we no longer need to follow the lists. It's a lot more natural now, so that has been really amazing to see.

One of the things that we asked her to do was to create a menu to make it kind of fun with her husband, where they would write down the things that they wanted to talk about with each other, and then the other person gets to pick from that menu what they are going to discuss in that conversation. And so it kind of lightened things up a little bit because these were very heavy topics that they were discussing, and it also gave the other person some control over what they would talk about. And it sounds like it really opened up a space for them to continue to have these kinds of conversations and really get the communication going between the two of them.

One of the things that we asked her to do was to create a menu to make it kind of fun with her husband, where they would write down the things that they wanted to talk about with each other, and then the other person gets to pick from that menu what they are going to discuss in that conversation. And so it kind of lightened things up a little bit because these were very heavy topics that they were discussing, and it also gave the other person some control over what they would talk about. And it sounds like it really opened up a space for them to continue to have these kinds of conversations and really get the communication going between the two of them.

It really opened up a logjam because when there are such important things that aren't being discussed, it's not just that they're not being discussed, but then each person has their own feeling and story about why it's not being discussed and why they aren't, why the other person isn't, and so having those discussions just freeze up communication in all kinds of ways.

It really opened up a logjam because when there are such important things that aren't being discussed, it's not just that they're not being discussed, but then each person has their own feeling and story about why it's not being discussed and why they aren't, why the other person isn't, and so having those discussions just freeze up communication in all kinds of ways.

And I think it's a sign that the homework assignment was effective when they're still doing some form of that a year later. And there's more to Savannah's updates, So let's take a listen.

And I think it's a sign that the homework assignment was effective when they're still doing some form of that a year later. And there's more to Savannah's updates, So let's take a listen.

There were two big moments that I had after we spoke. One of them was that if I'm not able to communicate on what I need, then he's never going to be able to understand and get on the same page. And while it's difficult, it is necessary. And if I continue to shy away and not speak to it, even if I'm doing it for what I think is a good reason, We're never going to be able to move forward. And so that has been one of the things that's changed quite dramatically. The other big moment is that in order for me to be able to communicate that I need to figure it out. And so I am now constantly working on figuring out what it is that I want from life, for myself and for our relationship. And it has been a really fun process, kind of scary, but also necessary. And going through that process and bringing him into that has been truly helpful. It's brought us closer, and you know, I think he appreciates me doing something for myself that is going to benefit.

There were two big moments that I had after we spoke. One of them was that if I'm not able to communicate on what I need, then he's never going to be able to understand and get on the same page. And while it's difficult, it is necessary. And if I continue to shy away and not speak to it, even if I'm doing it for what I think is a good reason, We're never going to be able to move forward. And so that has been one of the things that's changed quite dramatically. The other big moment is that in order for me to be able to communicate that I need to figure it out. And so I am now constantly working on figuring out what it is that I want from life, for myself and for our relationship. And it has been a really fun process, kind of scary, but also necessary. And going through that process and bringing him into that has been truly helpful. It's brought us closer, and you know, I think he appreciates me doing something for myself that is going to benefit.

The both of us.

The both of us.

Thank you again, and I'm really excited to see what the future has in store for us.

Thank you again, and I'm really excited to see what the future has in store for us.

This is something our listeners might be able to see in their own lives. Here's how this happens. When you feel unable to communicate your feelings and needs to someone for whatever reason, you can lose touch with what those feelings and needs are because what's the point in trying to figure them out if you're not going to communicate them, And that can become such a vicious cycle.

This is something our listeners might be able to see in their own lives. Here's how this happens. When you feel unable to communicate your feelings and needs to someone for whatever reason, you can lose touch with what those feelings and needs are because what's the point in trying to figure them out if you're not going to communicate them, And that can become such a vicious cycle.

Well, sometimes when we feel shut down in a relationship, we realize that we're the ones shutting ourselves down. You see how he was very receptive and welcomed, and it was almost a relief to him to be able to open up these lines of communication, and I think for both of them. So sometimes we don't realize it, but we're the ones who are shutting ourselves down because we're afraid of what might happen if we voice what we're really thinking or feeling. So I think this is a great lesson for people that first get in touch with what you're thinking and feeling and then make sure that you communicate it.

Well, sometimes when we feel shut down in a relationship, we realize that we're the ones shutting ourselves down. You see how he was very receptive and welcomed, and it was almost a relief to him to be able to open up these lines of communication, and I think for both of them. So sometimes we don't realize it, but we're the ones who are shutting ourselves down because we're afraid of what might happen if we voice what we're really thinking or feeling. So I think this is a great lesson for people that first get in touch with what you're thinking and feeling and then make sure that you communicate it.

And this is a dynamic that we see often in couples in which one of them has a chronic illness or they're going through an extended crisis, that their communication starts to become transactional. They talk about all the stuff that needs to get done, and they stop going deeper. One person feels hesitant to bring up their feelings because they don't want to overburden the person who's suffering. Meanwhile, the person who's suffering is feeling guilty about putting out their partner, and so they sit on their feelings and it can really create this dynamic in which they basically stop talking about meaningful things.

And this is a dynamic that we see often in couples in which one of them has a chronic illness or they're going through an extended crisis, that their communication starts to become transactional. They talk about all the stuff that needs to get done, and they stop going deeper. One person feels hesitant to bring up their feelings because they don't want to overburden the person who's suffering. Meanwhile, the person who's suffering is feeling guilty about putting out their partner, and so they sit on their feelings and it can really create this dynamic in which they basically stop talking about meaningful things.

And it sounds like Savannah and her husband have started to find those things again. What are the other parts of their lives that they had been neglecting.

And it sounds like Savannah and her husband have started to find those things again. What are the other parts of their lives that they had been neglecting.

You're listening to deo Therapists from iHeartRadio. We'll be back after a quick break. I'm Lori Gottlieb and I'm Guy Wench and this is THEO therapist.

You're listening to deo Therapists from iHeartRadio. We'll be back after a quick break. I'm Lori Gottlieb and I'm Guy Wench and this is THEO therapist.

So really, with Savannah, it ended up being a session about communication, and communication between couples comes up so much, but usually we just hear from one person in the couple. And in this next follow up, we have Ryan and Beth from season one who came on the show together to help resolve a disagreement that they've had for the entire length of their marriage. They haven't been able to agree on where they should live, and they both had very compelling reasons to want to be in their respective cities, and they've been in an impasse for a very long time. Let's get a reminder.

So really, with Savannah, it ended up being a session about communication, and communication between couples comes up so much, but usually we just hear from one person in the couple. And in this next follow up, we have Ryan and Beth from season one who came on the show together to help resolve a disagreement that they've had for the entire length of their marriage. They haven't been able to agree on where they should live, and they both had very compelling reasons to want to be in their respective cities, and they've been in an impasse for a very long time. Let's get a reminder.

The level of importance that she and I would say each of us put on being near family. After the first eight years of our relationship, we had no family around, and the fact that all of a sudden that was like a number one primary desire was a little bit surprising. I guess, so that would probably be my take.

The level of importance that she and I would say each of us put on being near family. After the first eight years of our relationship, we had no family around, and the fact that all of a sudden that was like a number one primary desire was a little bit surprising. I guess, so that would probably be my take.

I think I learned how much you really didn't want to live in New York.

I think I learned how much you really didn't want to live in New York.

I think I thought you were trying, that you.

I think I thought you were trying, that you.

Were really just over it and wanted to get out of there. I don't know if that's true.

Were really just over it and wanted to get out of there. I don't know if that's true.

So often when we see couples in therapy, people assume that they're coming to us because they are arguing all the time. There's a lot of acrimony between them, and that's often not the case. In Ryan and best case, they had this decision to make about where to live and for their entire marriage. Even though they loved each other very much and were able to communicate about other things pretty well, they weren't able to resolve this issue of do we live where Ryan's parents live, or do we live where Best's mom lives? And it was a very big issue that was causing a lot of resentment for both of them. So let's hear what happened since the session.

So often when we see couples in therapy, people assume that they're coming to us because they are arguing all the time. There's a lot of acrimony between them, and that's often not the case. In Ryan and best case, they had this decision to make about where to live and for their entire marriage. Even though they loved each other very much and were able to communicate about other things pretty well, they weren't able to resolve this issue of do we live where Ryan's parents live, or do we live where Best's mom lives? And it was a very big issue that was causing a lot of resentment for both of them. So let's hear what happened since the session.

This is Beth and this is Ryan.

This is Beth and this is Ryan.

Good news is we are communicating better.

Good news is we are communicating better.

Yeah, and from just a point of view for twenty twenty one versus where we were in twenty twenty, we went through an entire first floor innovation on our house and one of our mantras was we will not divorce over this, and we didn't, so that's good success. We successfully also visited with family, which was really important and helpful for all of those relationships. And it sounds a little silly when you're a grown up, but we've made some friends and that feels like really important outlets for both of us. We made friends through different exercise programs and a lot of our friends overlap and it's been huge for us.

Yeah, and from just a point of view for twenty twenty one versus where we were in twenty twenty, we went through an entire first floor innovation on our house and one of our mantras was we will not divorce over this, and we didn't, so that's good success. We successfully also visited with family, which was really important and helpful for all of those relationships. And it sounds a little silly when you're a grown up, but we've made some friends and that feels like really important outlets for both of us. We made friends through different exercise programs and a lot of our friends overlap and it's been huge for us.

Yeah, And just tonight I went over and helped the neighbor move a bed and it felt very neighborly in settled and it was nice.

Yeah, And just tonight I went over and helped the neighbor move a bed and it felt very neighborly in settled and it was nice.

So it sounds like they're settling into where they have been, which is where Ryan's family is and I think the important piece here is that they're learning to communicate with each other differently. And once they have started to communicate differently with each other, you can see how that opens up the possibilities.

So it sounds like they're settling into where they have been, which is where Ryan's family is and I think the important piece here is that they're learning to communicate with each other differently. And once they have started to communicate differently with each other, you can see how that opens up the possibilities.

Part of what was happening with them because of this disagreement about geography was they weren't really making a home anywhere anywhere, And so at least now they're starting to actually make a home, put down roots, make friends, do the things you need to do to feel like you belong somewhere.

Part of what was happening with them because of this disagreement about geography was they weren't really making a home anywhere anywhere, And so at least now they're starting to actually make a home, put down roots, make friends, do the things you need to do to feel like you belong somewhere.

And I think that's important because as an adult, it's much harder to make friends, especially in a new place, because I think that for most of us as adults, we either have made friends when we were younger that come with us in some way, or were already ensconced in a community and we've established roots there and they hadn't done that yet, or we make them through our kids. And here she was really making an effort to kind of feel settled and make this place her home.

And I think that's important because as an adult, it's much harder to make friends, especially in a new place, because I think that for most of us as adults, we either have made friends when we were younger that come with us in some way, or were already ensconced in a community and we've established roots there and they hadn't done that yet, or we make them through our kids. And here she was really making an effort to kind of feel settled and make this place her home.

So let's hear some more from Ryan and Beth.

So let's hear some more from Ryan and Beth.

I think it helped us. I recognize that we did have one upsmanship, and so we came to realize that we needed to back off of that and focus on the tender core and getting past those hard outer feelings. So that I think helped us a lot as we talked through our communication challenges.

I think it helped us. I recognize that we did have one upsmanship, and so we came to realize that we needed to back off of that and focus on the tender core and getting past those hard outer feelings. So that I think helped us a lot as we talked through our communication challenges.

Yeah, and that this doesn't have to be brin smanship. It doesn't have to be you know, well, my pain is worse than your pain and we can hold both at the same time, and that's life. And I think it helped us both really understand that about it each other. I think we've also let ourselves feel settled. I think that was one of the things that Laurie pointed out, that if we're always feeling a little like we're nomads, then will we ever feel settled? And will we ever feel good.

Yeah, and that this doesn't have to be brin smanship. It doesn't have to be you know, well, my pain is worse than your pain and we can hold both at the same time, and that's life. And I think it helped us both really understand that about it each other. I think we've also let ourselves feel settled. I think that was one of the things that Laurie pointed out, that if we're always feeling a little like we're nomads, then will we ever feel settled? And will we ever feel good.

About where we are?

About where we are?

And we have met some great people and our kids are settled, I would say, in good community and family nearby and all of that.

And we have met some great people and our kids are settled, I would say, in good community and family nearby and all of that.

So I think things are going better. I think we're communicating better.

So I think things are going better. I think we're communicating better.

I think that realization about the tender core underneath the herd outer shell to sound cliched was kind of a game changer, just thinking through, yeah.

I think that realization about the tender core underneath the herd outer shell to sound cliched was kind of a game changer, just thinking through, yeah.

How you can.

How you can.

Want to hide true emotions.

Want to hide true emotions.

And then I'll say it has helped me have more direct and open conversations with many of my male friends, which is not something that we generally do. So it's been positive to help me work through that tough, manly outer shell that many of us carry and talk more openly with men.

And then I'll say it has helped me have more direct and open conversations with many of my male friends, which is not something that we generally do. So it's been positive to help me work through that tough, manly outer shell that many of us carry and talk more openly with men.

What I think is really hopeful here is that no matter what they end up deciding, and I don't think that they're quite there yet. I think that Beth is kind of trying this on right now, and it might not be where they ultimately end up, but I think what's important here is that they've learned what was tripping them up in the kind of communication they had around this, which can also translate to the other kinds of conversations that they will inevitably have to have in the course of a marriage. And one of the things that they were doing was they had this, whose pain is greater if I go to your city, will my pain be greater? So therefore we should go to my city, And it was sort of this one upsmanship, you know, the pain Olympics that they were going through, and I think that they're starting to realize, wait a minute, there also are reasons that each of us wants to be in these respective cities. And when they could see the very tender parts of each other and the very vulnerable parts of each other. It gave them so much more compassion for the other person and for the other person's reasons for wanting to be somewhere else, and also the sacrifices that they would be making if they ended up in a city that was not their first choice.

What I think is really hopeful here is that no matter what they end up deciding, and I don't think that they're quite there yet. I think that Beth is kind of trying this on right now, and it might not be where they ultimately end up, but I think what's important here is that they've learned what was tripping them up in the kind of communication they had around this, which can also translate to the other kinds of conversations that they will inevitably have to have in the course of a marriage. And one of the things that they were doing was they had this, whose pain is greater if I go to your city, will my pain be greater? So therefore we should go to my city, And it was sort of this one upsmanship, you know, the pain Olympics that they were going through, and I think that they're starting to realize, wait a minute, there also are reasons that each of us wants to be in these respective cities. And when they could see the very tender parts of each other and the very vulnerable parts of each other. It gave them so much more compassion for the other person and for the other person's reasons for wanting to be somewhere else, and also the sacrifices that they would be making if they ended up in a city that was not their first choice.

And I think Ryan is being very supportive, which is great, but really my head soft to Beth. I think she went from being in such a rigid place of that brinksmanship of the pan Olympics to known I could never ever ever be happy there, and one of the exercises we actually gave her was to imagine being happy there. But I think she did such a great job of opening up and really giving it a chance and being very authentic about it. And my hands off to her. That was a big, big shift that she did.

And I think Ryan is being very supportive, which is great, but really my head soft to Beth. I think she went from being in such a rigid place of that brinksmanship of the pan Olympics to known I could never ever ever be happy there, and one of the exercises we actually gave her was to imagine being happy there. But I think she did such a great job of opening up and really giving it a chance and being very authentic about it. And my hands off to her. That was a big, big shift that she did.

And I would also say hats off to Ryan because he really was able, for maybe the very first time in his life to go to that more vulnerable place that he tends to avoid. And he was talking about how he normally doesn't go there, and I think that that happens more often with men than with women, and I don't want to make a sweeping statement about gender. But I see that in our culture we tend to give a message to men that being vulnerable is weak. And what Ryan did was not only was he able to be vulnerable with Beth, but then he started to be more open and vulnerable with his male friends. And I think that that really speaks to the shift that he made from this conversation.

And I would also say hats off to Ryan because he really was able, for maybe the very first time in his life to go to that more vulnerable place that he tends to avoid. And he was talking about how he normally doesn't go there, and I think that that happens more often with men than with women, and I don't want to make a sweeping statement about gender. But I see that in our culture we tend to give a message to men that being vulnerable is weak. And what Ryan did was not only was he able to be vulnerable with Beth, but then he started to be more open and vulnerable with his male friends. And I think that that really speaks to the shift that he made from this conversation.

And Ryan and Beth had one last thing to share with us.

And Ryan and Beth had one last thing to share with us.

One of the things I realized was we were also escalating with our kids. Oh yeah, and so it's helped us be better parents of don't escalate and just be open and love them and hug them if need be, but don't escalate. Thought that was wonderful guidance for parenting.

One of the things I realized was we were also escalating with our kids. Oh yeah, and so it's helped us be better parents of don't escalate and just be open and love them and hug them if need be, but don't escalate. Thought that was wonderful guidance for parenting.

Yeah, with marriage, our older son is an escalator.

Yeah, with marriage, our older son is an escalator.

I don't know where he gets from.

I don't know where he gets from.

So it's helpful to kind of remember that when he's escalating too, there's probably something to work through underneath that.

So it's helpful to kind of remember that when he's escalating too, there's probably something to work through underneath that.

So thank you Thinks.

So thank you Thinks.

For lessons and insights.

For lessons and insights.

Couples tend to escalate a lot, especially when they're dealing with conflictual issues like Beth and Ryan were, but they also learn how to manage their feelings and to de escalate and to prevent that, and their healthy communication has improved. And so for couples, when they do that kind of work with their emotional regulation and their healthy communication is improving. It's really beneficial for the kids. The kids get to see good modeling. They learn that you can be upset, but you can also manage those feelings and cope with all the frustrations that you might have when you love someone. So I think they're doing a great job of not just managing their own relationship, but really modeling a new and improved one for their kids.

Couples tend to escalate a lot, especially when they're dealing with conflictual issues like Beth and Ryan were, but they also learn how to manage their feelings and to de escalate and to prevent that, and their healthy communication has improved. And so for couples, when they do that kind of work with their emotional regulation and their healthy communication is improving. It's really beneficial for the kids. The kids get to see good modeling. They learn that you can be upset, but you can also manage those feelings and cope with all the frustrations that you might have when you love someone. So I think they're doing a great job of not just managing their own relationship, but really modeling a new and improved one for their kids.

Right.

Right.

One of their concerns about where they were going to live was how that was going to affect the lives of their kids. They wanted to pick a place that not only each of them wanted to be in, but where would their kids have the best upbringing. One of the best gifts that you can give your kids is modeling emotional regulation. Modeling what do you do with your feelings and when you have parents who can communicate well and effectively and in a healthy way and be vulnerable too. So emotional regulation is not about don't have feelings, It's about being able to have your feelings and then to manage them in a productive way in the family, and no matter where they decide to live, the gift that has come out of this is that their kids are going to get that good modeling from their parents.

One of their concerns about where they were going to live was how that was going to affect the lives of their kids. They wanted to pick a place that not only each of them wanted to be in, but where would their kids have the best upbringing. One of the best gifts that you can give your kids is modeling emotional regulation. Modeling what do you do with your feelings and when you have parents who can communicate well and effectively and in a healthy way and be vulnerable too. So emotional regulation is not about don't have feelings, It's about being able to have your feelings and then to manage them in a productive way in the family, and no matter where they decide to live, the gift that has come out of this is that their kids are going to get that good modeling from their parents.

So communication problems don't just happen between couples. They happen among siblings as well. And when we met Danica, she was really struggling with her younger brother, Blake, who felt very much left out of the family. She and her brother John were older than Blake and his kids. They were quite cruel to him and he has never gotten over it and he feels very much apart from them, and she wants to rectify the situation, but she doesn't know how and anything she's tried hasn't worked. Let's get a reminder of our session with Danica.

So communication problems don't just happen between couples. They happen among siblings as well. And when we met Danica, she was really struggling with her younger brother, Blake, who felt very much left out of the family. She and her brother John were older than Blake and his kids. They were quite cruel to him and he has never gotten over it and he feels very much apart from them, and she wants to rectify the situation, but she doesn't know how and anything she's tried hasn't worked. Let's get a reminder of our session with Danica.

Blake asked us repeatedly, what does it mean to you to be a sibling?

Blake asked us repeatedly, what does it mean to you to be a sibling?

To me? Like, what.

To me? Like, what.

Can he really count on from us? We would say, well, what does family look like for you? And it would be I don't know.

Can he really count on from us? We would say, well, what does family look like for you? And it would be I don't know.

I think because what he's trying to convey to you is a feeling, and the feeling that he has is that I'm not part of this group.

I think because what he's trying to convey to you is a feeling, and the feeling that he has is that I'm not part of this group.

Still, what have those conversations been like where you go back and take full responsibility for the extent of the pain that you caused him.

Still, what have those conversations been like where you go back and take full responsibility for the extent of the pain that you caused him.

It's very emotional, you know, to say that, yes, I was awful, you were very much on your own as like a five or a six year old. Yes, I did ignore you, didn't play with you. To have said that I wish you weren't born, you know, to a little kid like that, and I have said that I'm sorry.

It's very emotional, you know, to say that, yes, I was awful, you were very much on your own as like a five or a six year old. Yes, I did ignore you, didn't play with you. To have said that I wish you weren't born, you know, to a little kid like that, and I have said that I'm sorry.

So let's hear how things are going between them now, Hi.

So let's hear how things are going between them now, Hi.

Laurie, Hi guy. Unfortunately, I can't say that there has been dramatic changes. So what has changed is I try to reach out to Blake more regularly. He actually doesn't seem all that receptive towards phone calls. He's pretty sensitive about feeling like I'm making a forced effort to contact him. I don't think he likes feeling like I'm contacting him out of obligation or as like a chore, and so he doesn't like having scheduled calls. So I've been texting him more and catching up that way.

Laurie, Hi guy. Unfortunately, I can't say that there has been dramatic changes. So what has changed is I try to reach out to Blake more regularly. He actually doesn't seem all that receptive towards phone calls. He's pretty sensitive about feeling like I'm making a forced effort to contact him. I don't think he likes feeling like I'm contacting him out of obligation or as like a chore, and so he doesn't like having scheduled calls. So I've been texting him more and catching up that way.

You know, Laurie, there might not be dramatic changes in how Blake feels, but there are meaningful changes in Danaka's understanding of the dynamics between them in how they communicate. Blake, for example, convoys that he needs her efforts to feel authentic, and when she hears that, she goes okay. So maybe scheduled calls doesn't do that. Let's pivot to texts because those tend to be most spontaneous and casual, and maybe that will feel better to him. So she's willing to change what she's doing and try and find ways to connect with him, and so far it doesn't sound like it's gone amazingly will but the fact that those efforts are going forth, that he's able to voice his concerns, that she's able to hear them, that's an improvement.

You know, Laurie, there might not be dramatic changes in how Blake feels, but there are meaningful changes in Danaka's understanding of the dynamics between them in how they communicate. Blake, for example, convoys that he needs her efforts to feel authentic, and when she hears that, she goes okay. So maybe scheduled calls doesn't do that. Let's pivot to texts because those tend to be most spontaneous and casual, and maybe that will feel better to him. So she's willing to change what she's doing and try and find ways to connect with him, and so far it doesn't sound like it's gone amazingly will but the fact that those efforts are going forth, that he's able to voice his concerns, that she's able to hear them, that's an improvement.

And building trust takes a lot of time, and I think there were two things that were really important for Danica to keep in mind when it came to Blake. The first was that he did want to have the sense of being part of the family, feeling like he was one of the siblings, and that there wasn't this kind of feeling of being an outsider. But I think the other part that was extremely important was for Danica to acknowledge and very directly that she did not treat him well as a child, and I think he really needs to hear that and to hear it from an authentic place where she really gets it. And I think in our session it did take a little bit of work for her to really get to a place where she could do that without the butts or the reasons why. And the more that that happens, the more trust will develop between the two of them.

And building trust takes a lot of time, and I think there were two things that were really important for Danica to keep in mind when it came to Blake. The first was that he did want to have the sense of being part of the family, feeling like he was one of the siblings, and that there wasn't this kind of feeling of being an outsider. But I think the other part that was extremely important was for Danica to acknowledge and very directly that she did not treat him well as a child, and I think he really needs to hear that and to hear it from an authentic place where she really gets it. And I think in our session it did take a little bit of work for her to really get to a place where she could do that without the butts or the reasons why. And the more that that happens, the more trust will develop between the two of them.

The other thing in the session was that she kept tethering herself to John, to the other brother and at least it sounds like the communication now is just between Danica and Blake in that way, so it's not we me and John and then Blake is over there. It's Danika trying to fold some kind of connection that's just her and Blake. Let's hear some more from Danica.

The other thing in the session was that she kept tethering herself to John, to the other brother and at least it sounds like the communication now is just between Danica and Blake in that way, so it's not we me and John and then Blake is over there. It's Danika trying to fold some kind of connection that's just her and Blake. Let's hear some more from Danica.

I do feel more at peace with how things are. It was helpful talking with you and for me either. The aha moment was how you cast my relationship with Blake as this pseudo parent and child's kind of relationship because of our circumstances in childhood and how that's still carrying over into adulthood, and that kind of framing really helped me feel less confused about what it was that Blake was looking towards me for and to some extent, what it is that he's looking for me now. I think for us it's going to be a matter of incremental improvements as I show consistency in reaching out to him and taking an interest in his life, hopefully will cease positive change over time. Thank you again for all of your help and time and insights.

I do feel more at peace with how things are. It was helpful talking with you and for me either. The aha moment was how you cast my relationship with Blake as this pseudo parent and child's kind of relationship because of our circumstances in childhood and how that's still carrying over into adulthood, and that kind of framing really helped me feel less confused about what it was that Blake was looking towards me for and to some extent, what it is that he's looking for me now. I think for us it's going to be a matter of incremental improvements as I show consistency in reaching out to him and taking an interest in his life, hopefully will cease positive change over time. Thank you again for all of your help and time and insights.

One of the things that happens when you have parents who maybe aren't really as present as you would like them to be, and you're the younger sibling and then you have two older siblings who are very close with each other, is that those two older siblings become the surrogate parents. And Blake was really left alone so much of the time on his own with nobody there, and Danica talked about how neglectful she and John and her brother were toward Blake, And so I think that there's some of that repair work to do around that piece in terms of not only what happened, but who are they to each other now as adults where there isn't that parental relationship, but they really are adult siblings. And I think Danica still has this story in her head that somehow she has so much more in common with John and she can't possibly find overlap with these interests with Blake, even though they did when they were in their early twenties have some of that relationship where they found some overlap. And I think she has more work to do to understand why she's so blocked there, because I think that when she gets unblocked there, she will naturally become more authentic in the way she relates to Blake, and Blake will feel her presence in a way that he never did as that abandoned little child growing up.

One of the things that happens when you have parents who maybe aren't really as present as you would like them to be, and you're the younger sibling and then you have two older siblings who are very close with each other, is that those two older siblings become the surrogate parents. And Blake was really left alone so much of the time on his own with nobody there, and Danica talked about how neglectful she and John and her brother were toward Blake, And so I think that there's some of that repair work to do around that piece in terms of not only what happened, but who are they to each other now as adults where there isn't that parental relationship, but they really are adult siblings. And I think Danica still has this story in her head that somehow she has so much more in common with John and she can't possibly find overlap with these interests with Blake, even though they did when they were in their early twenties have some of that relationship where they found some overlap. And I think she has more work to do to understand why she's so blocked there, because I think that when she gets unblocked there, she will naturally become more authentic in the way she relates to Blake, and Blake will feel her presence in a way that he never did as that abandoned little child growing up.

I agree, And I think the part of the hurdle Danka faces is that she is very sensitized to how hurt Blake is and how rejected he still feels so many years later. And I think that that makes it very difficult for her because we're saying to her, yeah, be authentic with him, but it's so hard to be authentic when she's worried about hurting his feelings, when she's worried about saying the wrong things. And so I think it's really a delicate, difficult path that she has to find there, And I think the best way for her to find it is really just to get interested in who this person is now as an adult, get to know him in a way that you haven't before you're both older. You get to know him, ask him questions. Almost start from scratch, and I hope she can get over the hesitation she has because of wanting to not hurt him in any way, shape or form again, so that she can be more authentic with him and he would feel that and probably respond quite well to me.

I agree, And I think the part of the hurdle Danka faces is that she is very sensitized to how hurt Blake is and how rejected he still feels so many years later. And I think that that makes it very difficult for her because we're saying to her, yeah, be authentic with him, but it's so hard to be authentic when she's worried about hurting his feelings, when she's worried about saying the wrong things. And so I think it's really a delicate, difficult path that she has to find there, And I think the best way for her to find it is really just to get interested in who this person is now as an adult, get to know him in a way that you haven't before you're both older. You get to know him, ask him questions. Almost start from scratch, and I hope she can get over the hesitation she has because of wanting to not hurt him in any way, shape or form again, so that she can be more authentic with him and he would feel that and probably respond quite well to me.

I like what you said about starting from scratch, because I think these roles that we have as children become so ingrained that it's very hard to pivot from them, and so I think that we do have to do this with our siblings as adults, no matter what the issue is, is to really start from scratch and not be like, well, you were always the smart one, or you were always the favored one, or you were always the beautiful one, or you know, whatever it might be, and to really say who are we now that we are adults and we are not children living in that house anymore.

I like what you said about starting from scratch, because I think these roles that we have as children become so ingrained that it's very hard to pivot from them, and so I think that we do have to do this with our siblings as adults, no matter what the issue is, is to really start from scratch and not be like, well, you were always the smart one, or you were always the favored one, or you were always the beautiful one, or you know, whatever it might be, and to really say who are we now that we are adults and we are not children living in that house anymore.

And I think any siblings who have not had a close relationship as adults can do that. Get to know one another as if you were strangers. And you'll be really surprised to learn who that sibling is now and for them to get to know who you are now. And it's a great way to think about how to connect with siblings or any family members with whom you haven't been closed and adulted.

And I think any siblings who have not had a close relationship as adults can do that. Get to know one another as if you were strangers. And you'll be really surprised to learn who that sibling is now and for them to get to know who you are now. And it's a great way to think about how to connect with siblings or any family members with whom you haven't been closed and adulted.

And I think that starts with curiosity, being really curious about the other person, and not just in the sibling situation, but I think in any situation where we're talking about improving communication, it has to start with curiosity. You're listening to Dear Therapists for my Heart Radio. We'll be back after a short break, so I'm thinking about the last person we're going to catch up with today, and that is Amy. And Amy came to us because she was uncomfortable with the fact that her boyfriend that she was very serious with was still taking care of his ex girlfriend's dog and I think the dog was actually living with him at times, and the boundaries just seemed very blurred to her and she did not know how to communicate effectively with him around this. So let's get a reminder of what was going on.

And I think that starts with curiosity, being really curious about the other person, and not just in the sibling situation, but I think in any situation where we're talking about improving communication, it has to start with curiosity. You're listening to Dear Therapists for my Heart Radio. We'll be back after a short break, so I'm thinking about the last person we're going to catch up with today, and that is Amy. And Amy came to us because she was uncomfortable with the fact that her boyfriend that she was very serious with was still taking care of his ex girlfriend's dog and I think the dog was actually living with him at times, and the boundaries just seemed very blurred to her and she did not know how to communicate effectively with him around this. So let's get a reminder of what was going on.

I said, you know, it's really funny. I have never met this person, but I hate her already.

I said, you know, it's really funny. I have never met this person, but I hate her already.

Because she is.

Because she is.

In the middle of our relationship.

In the middle of our relationship.

You are very clear with him that the dog bothers you, but you also say that you don't want to tell him what to do about the friendship quote unquote correct with this X if you feel comfortable saying to him, this dog shouldn't be here, why don't you feel comfortable saying and your friendship with this woman who keeps reappearing and sabotaging the dates you have, she shouldn't be in the picture either.

You are very clear with him that the dog bothers you, but you also say that you don't want to tell him what to do about the friendship quote unquote correct with this X if you feel comfortable saying to him, this dog shouldn't be here, why don't you feel comfortable saying and your friendship with this woman who keeps reappearing and sabotaging the dates you have, she shouldn't be in the picture either.

I guess you doubt yourself. I think, Okay, does this.

I guess you doubt yourself. I think, Okay, does this.

Dog represent the woman? Is this dog a connection? Or am I just totally over analyzing a situation. Can he have a friendship with this person? I mean, he has mentioned that he's known for twenty something years, But I said, this is not a friend. I said, I don't have sex with my friends.

Dog represent the woman? Is this dog a connection? Or am I just totally over analyzing a situation. Can he have a friendship with this person? I mean, he has mentioned that he's known for twenty something years, But I said, this is not a friend. I said, I don't have sex with my friends.

You know, Laurie, Amy had reason to be concerned about his ex because she had a history of sabotaging his relationships, including his marriage, So there was all kinds of reasons for concern. There here where Amy is today and the dog and the boyfriend.

You know, Laurie, Amy had reason to be concerned about his ex because she had a history of sabotaging his relationships, including his marriage, So there was all kinds of reasons for concern. There here where Amy is today and the dog and the boyfriend.

Hi, Laurien guy, this is Amy. I am happy to report that my boyfriend and I are still together and the dog has not reappeared, and neither has the ex girlfriend. Something that I have learned and reflected on a lot, though, is I don't know that the dog incident was isolated. And what I mean by that is, I think it's tied to bigger issues. I know we spoke about boundaries, so it's tied to bigger issues of boundaries and also guilt. I know he suffers from just an incredible amount of guilt from his divorce and not being able to spend time with his kids. So I think the dog not only for him did it mean a failed relationship guilt again, but giving it back was also for him. He felt guilty because he wasn't sure it was going to be well taken care of well.

Hi, Laurien guy, this is Amy. I am happy to report that my boyfriend and I are still together and the dog has not reappeared, and neither has the ex girlfriend. Something that I have learned and reflected on a lot, though, is I don't know that the dog incident was isolated. And what I mean by that is, I think it's tied to bigger issues. I know we spoke about boundaries, so it's tied to bigger issues of boundaries and also guilt. I know he suffers from just an incredible amount of guilt from his divorce and not being able to spend time with his kids. So I think the dog not only for him did it mean a failed relationship guilt again, but giving it back was also for him. He felt guilty because he wasn't sure it was going to be well taken care of well.

I think Amy's right that it's never just about the dog, and member that her boyfriend had so much guilt that he was holding about having disappointed his wife and leaving the marriage, and then the question of what was going to happen to his kids and how were they going to be affected by the divorce, and then how was his ex girlfriend going to feel. They also had an on again, off again relationship that kept reappearing, but they were also friends for a very long time, and he was going to disappoint her. So I think there were so many things going on for him in addition to the bigger issue of really cutting ties with that part of his life and being able to move on to a healthy relationship with Amy.

I think Amy's right that it's never just about the dog, and member that her boyfriend had so much guilt that he was holding about having disappointed his wife and leaving the marriage, and then the question of what was going to happen to his kids and how were they going to be affected by the divorce, and then how was his ex girlfriend going to feel. They also had an on again, off again relationship that kept reappearing, but they were also friends for a very long time, and he was going to disappoint her. So I think there were so many things going on for him in addition to the bigger issue of really cutting ties with that part of his life and being able to move on to a healthy relationship with Amy.

And I think what we usually see in our office is that when somebody has murky boundaries in one area, for example, who's taking care of the dog, we will find those milky boundaries in another area. People tend to either like clarity or avoid creating it. And if he's the kind of person that really finds it hard to set clear boundaries and expectations in his own head, let alone for others, that's probably something that goes on in all kinds of different areas of his life.

And I think what we usually see in our office is that when somebody has murky boundaries in one area, for example, who's taking care of the dog, we will find those milky boundaries in another area. People tend to either like clarity or avoid creating it. And if he's the kind of person that really finds it hard to set clear boundaries and expectations in his own head, let alone for others, that's probably something that goes on in all kinds of different areas of his life.

And I think it's very hopeful that when they had a direct conversation about this, that he really stepped up and set those boundaries that he was saying to her, you were important to me, I value you, and I know that I need to do this for our relationship to succeed. And I think that sent her a very strong message of support. So let's hear what else happened.

And I think it's very hopeful that when they had a direct conversation about this, that he really stepped up and set those boundaries that he was saying to her, you were important to me, I value you, and I know that I need to do this for our relationship to succeed. And I think that sent her a very strong message of support. So let's hear what else happened.

I think the biggest hurdle we have is when they got divorced while it was amicable, because he felt so guilty, he assumed ninety nine point nine percent of all the financial responsibilities. His ex wife doesn't work. She still has a credit card with him, which is supposed to be exclusively for growth trees things for the kids, but it's just really murky. I mean, they are legally divorced, but he still pays for everything. So that's a really big challenge for us right now because we're communicating very openly about it. How if it's not fixed, we can't move forward. He's slow to act, and I know why. I know he doesn't. He doesn't like conflict, so he feels like by engaging in this negotiation, the ex wife might prevent him from seeing his kids as often as he liked because they co parent, and might even request SPO custody. So that's the big hurdle that we're facing now. And I reflect a lot on what you said, Laurie during our last call, which was make sure you don't wait too long. So thank you again for listening.

I think the biggest hurdle we have is when they got divorced while it was amicable, because he felt so guilty, he assumed ninety nine point nine percent of all the financial responsibilities. His ex wife doesn't work. She still has a credit card with him, which is supposed to be exclusively for growth trees things for the kids, but it's just really murky. I mean, they are legally divorced, but he still pays for everything. So that's a really big challenge for us right now because we're communicating very openly about it. How if it's not fixed, we can't move forward. He's slow to act, and I know why. I know he doesn't. He doesn't like conflict, so he feels like by engaging in this negotiation, the ex wife might prevent him from seeing his kids as often as he liked because they co parent, and might even request SPO custody. So that's the big hurdle that we're facing now. And I reflect a lot on what you said, Laurie during our last call, which was make sure you don't wait too long. So thank you again for listening.

Well, I think it's great that she got the message that she shouldn't wait too long to have these conversations, because she talked about how he avoids conflict, and I think that when you're in a relationship with someone who avoids conflict, it's really important that you don't become complicit in that that you then don't say, well, I'm just not going to bring it up because I know that it makes the other person uncomfortable for me to bring it up. And I think that that worked very well with setting some clear boundaries around the other woman with the dog, who he had trouble not having sex with whenever she would come around. And while there were times where he could hold that boundary, there were times when he couldn't. So that was a very clear cut situation where she knew what she needed, he knew if he wanted to have this relationship with Amy, and that seemed to work out well so far. I think here it's a little more complicated because not only is he conflict avoidant, but there's a real consequence to bringing this up with his ex wife, which is that it might affect how she handles the custody situation around the kids, And so I think that it's important for them to really talk about money in their relationship and how money is going to be handled between them and also with his kids and his ex wife. But I think she also has to understand that there's a consequence out there for him that he kind of has to dance around a little bit differently. So it doesn't mean don't set the boundary. It means they're really going to have to work together to come up with something that works for both of them in this relationship.

Well, I think it's great that she got the message that she shouldn't wait too long to have these conversations, because she talked about how he avoids conflict, and I think that when you're in a relationship with someone who avoids conflict, it's really important that you don't become complicit in that that you then don't say, well, I'm just not going to bring it up because I know that it makes the other person uncomfortable for me to bring it up. And I think that that worked very well with setting some clear boundaries around the other woman with the dog, who he had trouble not having sex with whenever she would come around. And while there were times where he could hold that boundary, there were times when he couldn't. So that was a very clear cut situation where she knew what she needed, he knew if he wanted to have this relationship with Amy, and that seemed to work out well so far. I think here it's a little more complicated because not only is he conflict avoidant, but there's a real consequence to bringing this up with his ex wife, which is that it might affect how she handles the custody situation around the kids, And so I think that it's important for them to really talk about money in their relationship and how money is going to be handled between them and also with his kids and his ex wife. But I think she also has to understand that there's a consequence out there for him that he kind of has to dance around a little bit differently. So it doesn't mean don't set the boundary. It means they're really going to have to work together to come up with something that works for both of them in this relationship.

And here again, as we've seen in the other updates, communication is absolutely key because Amy has a need to have clarity about what are the parameters of our relationship hers and her boyfriends, and that is related to the parameters of his relationship with his ex wife, his parenting, all those things. And I'm really glad to hear that Amy is still as she was when we spoke to her, really clear about being able to voice what her needs and feelings are and getting her boyfriend, who is much less prone to clarity, to become more and more clear about his needs and feelings and what she can expect.

And here again, as we've seen in the other updates, communication is absolutely key because Amy has a need to have clarity about what are the parameters of our relationship hers and her boyfriends, and that is related to the parameters of his relationship with his ex wife, his parenting, all those things. And I'm really glad to hear that Amy is still as she was when we spoke to her, really clear about being able to voice what her needs and feelings are and getting her boyfriend, who is much less prone to clarity, to become more and more clear about his needs and feelings and what she can expect.

And I think that when two people start communicating, it's beneficial to both people. So it's not like they started communicating and Amy got things in the relationship that benefit her, but it also benefits him to be in a healthier relationship with Amy, and in this case, to really examine his guilt and his avoidance and his blurry boundaries that maybe have tripped him up in relationships before, so that he can have a healthier path moving forward. So he's got to really differentiate here, what are some boundaries I can set around money with my ex, and what are some things where it's really the guilt talking and not about some negative consequence that might happen. And I think that what we've seen with all of the updates that we've gotten this week is that communication might not solve the problem immediately, but it gets people on a path so that they can start to get to a place where they will be able to move forward and negotiate their relationships in a much smoother way.

And I think that when two people start communicating, it's beneficial to both people. So it's not like they started communicating and Amy got things in the relationship that benefit her, but it also benefits him to be in a healthier relationship with Amy, and in this case, to really examine his guilt and his avoidance and his blurry boundaries that maybe have tripped him up in relationships before, so that he can have a healthier path moving forward. So he's got to really differentiate here, what are some boundaries I can set around money with my ex, and what are some things where it's really the guilt talking and not about some negative consequence that might happen. And I think that what we've seen with all of the updates that we've gotten this week is that communication might not solve the problem immediately, but it gets people on a path so that they can start to get to a place where they will be able to move forward and negotiate their relationships in a much smoother way.

And I think the other thing that we've seen is that when one person in a family, or in a couple, or in any kind of relationship starts to communicate more clearly and more openly, it forces in a way, the other person to match that or to come toward it, and so that can really have a ripple effect. I'm sure Amy's X is learning a lot about communication from being with Amy, and I'm sure that the family members and partners of all our guests that we covered this week have learned from them as well. And so I just want to urge our listeners. If you are in a situation that you feel is murky, clarify what your thoughts and feelings are and then speak up and communicate openly with the other person.

And I think the other thing that we've seen is that when one person in a family, or in a couple, or in any kind of relationship starts to communicate more clearly and more openly, it forces in a way, the other person to match that or to come toward it, and so that can really have a ripple effect. I'm sure Amy's X is learning a lot about communication from being with Amy, and I'm sure that the family members and partners of all our guests that we covered this week have learned from them as well. And so I just want to urge our listeners. If you are in a situation that you feel is murky, clarify what your thoughts and feelings are and then speak up and communicate openly with the other person.

Because it always feels like a relief. So next week we'll be back with our regular sessions, and we'll be talking with a woman who has a history of addictions that she is now in recovery for, but she has recently developed a new addiction, and that is to shopping.

Because it always feels like a relief. So next week we'll be back with our regular sessions, and we'll be talking with a woman who has a history of addictions that she is now in recovery for, but she has recently developed a new addiction, and that is to shopping.

I didn't realize that that's what was happening until I was six thousand dollars in debt.

I didn't realize that that's what was happening until I was six thousand dollars in debt.

I think that's what makes me feel vulnerable. Is to say this a loud.

I think that's what makes me feel vulnerable. Is to say this a loud.

Hey, fellow travelers, if you're enjoying our podcast each week, don't forget to subscribe for free so that you don't miss any episodes, And please help support Dear Therapists by telling your friends about it and leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. Your reviews really help people to find the show.

Hey, fellow travelers, if you're enjoying our podcast each week, don't forget to subscribe for free so that you don't miss any episodes, And please help support Dear Therapists by telling your friends about it and leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. Your reviews really help people to find the show.

If you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with us, Big O Smooth, email us at Lorian Guy at iHeartMedia dot com.

If you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with us, Big O Smooth, email us at Lorian Guy at iHeartMedia dot com.

Our executive producer is Noel Brown. We're produced and edited by Mike Johns, Josh Fisher and Chris Childs. Our interns are Dorit Corwin and Silver Lyfton. Special thanks to Alison Wright and to our podcast fairy Godmother Katie Couric.

Our executive producer is Noel Brown. We're produced and edited by Mike Johns, Josh Fisher and Chris Childs. Our interns are Dorit Corwin and Silver Lyfton. Special thanks to Alison Wright and to our podcast fairy Godmother Katie Couric.

We can't wait to see you at next week's session.

We can't wait to see you at next week's session.

Dear Therapist is a production of iHeartRadio

Dear Therapist is a production of iHeartRadio