I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist advice column for the Atlantic.

I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist advice column for the Atlantic.

And I'm Guy Wench. I'm the author of Emotional First Aid, and I write the Dear Guy advice column for Ted. And this is Deo Therapists.

And I'm Guy Wench. I'm the author of Emotional First Aid, and I write the Dear Guy advice column for Ted. And this is Deo Therapists.

Each week we invite you into a real session where we help people confront the problems in their lives and then give them actionable advice and have them report back to let us know what happened when they did what we suggested.

Each week we invite you into a real session where we help people confront the problems in their lives and then give them actionable advice and have them report back to let us know what happened when they did what we suggested.

So sit back and welcome to today's session.

So sit back and welcome to today's session.

This week, a young married couple wants to learn how to stop their arguments from escalating into destructive screaming matches.

This week, a young married couple wants to learn how to stop their arguments from escalating into destructive screaming matches.

My sister moved in with us and there's been rules that need to be set in place for the household. We've had certain disagreements and it always ends with arguments to where we don't even want to talk to each other anymore.

My sister moved in with us and there's been rules that need to be set in place for the household. We've had certain disagreements and it always ends with arguments to where we don't even want to talk to each other anymore.

First, a quick note, Deo Therapists is for informational purposes only. It does not constitute medical or psychological advice, and it's not a substitute for professional health health care advice. Diagnosis or treatment. By submitting a letter, you are agreeing to let iHeartMedia use it in part or in full, and we may edit it for length and clarity. In the sessions you'll hear. All names have been changed for the privacy of our guests. Hey guy, Hi Laurie. What do we have in our mailbooks today?

First, a quick note, Deo Therapists is for informational purposes only. It does not constitute medical or psychological advice, and it's not a substitute for professional health health care advice. Diagnosis or treatment. By submitting a letter, you are agreeing to let iHeartMedia use it in part or in full, and we may edit it for length and clarity. In the sessions you'll hear. All names have been changed for the privacy of our guests. Hey guy, Hi Laurie. What do we have in our mailbooks today?

Today we have a letter from a woman who wants to know how she and her fiance can learn to not turn every discussion into a screaming match. And we're actually going to have both of them on to talk about that. And here's the letter. Dear Therapists. I am in a ten year relationship with my now fiance, Finn. We have grown up together and he's my best friend. I absolutely love him. He is a police officer and his line of work has trained him not to show emotions. I work as a therapist. Great combination.

Today we have a letter from a woman who wants to know how she and her fiance can learn to not turn every discussion into a screaming match. And we're actually going to have both of them on to talk about that. And here's the letter. Dear Therapists. I am in a ten year relationship with my now fiance, Finn. We have grown up together and he's my best friend. I absolutely love him. He is a police officer and his line of work has trained him not to show emotions. I work as a therapist. Great combination.

I know.

I know.

Recently his sister moved in with us, and that has really pushed us to argue about household rules. Sometimes I feel so alone, and I've expressed this to him. He is receptive, but I worry that the stressors we face now are minimal compared to the ones that we may face later. On down the line when we get married and have children. We have gone through so much change over the last ten years, but I feel like we argue like our teenage version of ourselves. Sometimes we say things that really hurt each other and we don't communicate well. I really want us to fight better, because I know we feel like we are both losing sometimes. I would love your support in helping us to connect and identify unhealthy communication patterns. We'd like to learn how to have a discussion without turning it into a screaming match. Thank you, Grace.

Recently his sister moved in with us, and that has really pushed us to argue about household rules. Sometimes I feel so alone, and I've expressed this to him. He is receptive, but I worry that the stressors we face now are minimal compared to the ones that we may face later. On down the line when we get married and have children. We have gone through so much change over the last ten years, but I feel like we argue like our teenage version of ourselves. Sometimes we say things that really hurt each other and we don't communicate well. I really want us to fight better, because I know we feel like we are both losing sometimes. I would love your support in helping us to connect and identify unhealthy communication patterns. We'd like to learn how to have a discussion without turning it into a screaming match. Thank you, Grace.

Grace and Finn have been together since they were young, and it sounds like they might have grown and evolved, but their communication together has not. So they really do need to learn very different habits than habits they've already established over ten years. And I'm very glad we have both of them here because it really does require two to change your communication style.

Grace and Finn have been together since they were young, and it sounds like they might have grown and evolved, but their communication together has not. So they really do need to learn very different habits than habits they've already established over ten years. And I'm very glad we have both of them here because it really does require two to change your communication style.

And what I like too about this letter is that she's not saying the problem is with my partner. A lot of times we get these letters and people say, my partner does this, How do I get them to change? And what she's saying is we both do this, and we both need to learn how to change. So let's go meet them and see how we can help. You're listening to Dear Therapists for my Heart Radio. We'll be back after a short break. I'm Laurie Gottlieb.

And what I like too about this letter is that she's not saying the problem is with my partner. A lot of times we get these letters and people say, my partner does this, How do I get them to change? And what she's saying is we both do this, and we both need to learn how to change. So let's go meet them and see how we can help. You're listening to Dear Therapists for my Heart Radio. We'll be back after a short break. I'm Laurie Gottlieb.

And I'm Guy Wench and this is Dear Therapists.

And I'm Guy Wench and this is Dear Therapists.

So Hi Grace, Hi Finn.

So Hi Grace, Hi Finn.

Thanks for coming on the show.

Thanks for coming on the show.

Thanks for having us.

Thanks for having us.

Yes, thank you so much for having us.

Yes, thank you so much for having us.

You're very welcome. We'd love to hear a little bit about how you guys got together when, and just how the relationship has been over the past ten years.

You're very welcome. We'd love to hear a little bit about how you guys got together when, and just how the relationship has been over the past ten years.

We started dating high school, so we've been together since we were teenagers, and there's just been a lot that has happened throughout the last ten years, like surviving like long distance while I was in college. Finn is from out of state and so he has family over there in so just having to juggle like visiting them too. We've had a lot of successes in our careers and also like in our personal lives of getting a house and getting engaged, and so I think it's been really good, but there's also been like really difficult moments too.

We started dating high school, so we've been together since we were teenagers, and there's just been a lot that has happened throughout the last ten years, like surviving like long distance while I was in college. Finn is from out of state and so he has family over there in so just having to juggle like visiting them too. We've had a lot of successes in our careers and also like in our personal lives of getting a house and getting engaged, and so I think it's been really good, but there's also been like really difficult moments too.

Tell us about the difficult moments.

Tell us about the difficult moments.

There's just a lot of things that happened growing up together, just having to figure out how to be in a relationship and like stay in one, but also being able to find like our own identities and that now we have a house and Finn's sister recently moved in, and that's just been a little bit difficult because we haven't lived together for a terribly long time. I think it's been be.

There's just a lot of things that happened growing up together, just having to figure out how to be in a relationship and like stay in one, but also being able to find like our own identities and that now we have a house and Finn's sister recently moved in, and that's just been a little bit difficult because we haven't lived together for a terribly long time. I think it's been be.

A year to no, about two years now.

A year to no, about two years now.

Two years, so eight of those years that we were together we didn't live together. It's just been kind of difficult navigating that different dynamic of having somebody else there.

Two years, so eight of those years that we were together we didn't live together. It's just been kind of difficult navigating that different dynamic of having somebody else there.

You were tearing up when you talked about that You've been through some hard things. Could you give us an example of what some of those hard things were and what makes you feel emotional when you think about them.

You were tearing up when you talked about that You've been through some hard things. Could you give us an example of what some of those hard things were and what makes you feel emotional when you think about them.

I think just when me and Finn were younger, I was off in college and there was just a lot of things that I did that I wasn't like super proud of. Lying a lot there was just I think a lot of pain cause because of that. And so even though there had been a lot of really good and beautiful moments, there's also been a lot of difficult ones as well, including that period of time.

I think just when me and Finn were younger, I was off in college and there was just a lot of things that I did that I wasn't like super proud of. Lying a lot there was just I think a lot of pain cause because of that. And so even though there had been a lot of really good and beautiful moments, there's also been a lot of difficult ones as well, including that period of time.

Can you tell us what the lies were about and how the two of you got through that.

Can you tell us what the lies were about and how the two of you got through that.

Sure, we were young teenager and as most teenagers do, we experiment with most commonly like marijuana, and I was heavily against drinking alcohol, smoking, and some of the difficult things that we went through were I guess Grace wanted to experiment a little more with that, and when I would ask her questions about it, she would lie to me and say that she was home, when in reality she was with friends smoking stuff like that that created trust issues between us, and then when she went off to college a couple hours away, I just feel like that there were still trust issues, which created more issues within our relationship, and it just made it difficult as we got older.

Sure, we were young teenager and as most teenagers do, we experiment with most commonly like marijuana, and I was heavily against drinking alcohol, smoking, and some of the difficult things that we went through were I guess Grace wanted to experiment a little more with that, and when I would ask her questions about it, she would lie to me and say that she was home, when in reality she was with friends smoking stuff like that that created trust issues between us, and then when she went off to college a couple hours away, I just feel like that there were still trust issues, which created more issues within our relationship, and it just made it difficult as we got older.

It's interesting because in your letter, Grace, you said that the two of you don't know how to disagree without something turning into a screaming match. And I think that this is an example early on where instead of something turning into a scream match, you disagreed about something and you both kind of avoided it. I don't want to talk to you about the fact that I want to do something different, so I'm going to lie. So that we don't have to have some kind of confrontation.

It's interesting because in your letter, Grace, you said that the two of you don't know how to disagree without something turning into a screaming match. And I think that this is an example early on where instead of something turning into a scream match, you disagreed about something and you both kind of avoided it. I don't want to talk to you about the fact that I want to do something different, so I'm going to lie. So that we don't have to have some kind of confrontation.

Yeah, I think that happened, and so sometimes does happen. I've tried to really encourage Finn and even myself to have really difficult conversations because avoiding them hasn't helped us. But sometimes it's really difficult because when we get into arguments, I feel like I'm usually the one having to bring them up, and sometimes I just get tired of it because I like want Finn to bring up the things that he is feeling and experiencing, but that doesn't always happen.

Yeah, I think that happened, and so sometimes does happen. I've tried to really encourage Finn and even myself to have really difficult conversations because avoiding them hasn't helped us. But sometimes it's really difficult because when we get into arguments, I feel like I'm usually the one having to bring them up, and sometimes I just get tired of it because I like want Finn to bring up the things that he is feeling and experiencing, but that doesn't always happen.

When these lies were happening, how did you deal with the fact that the lies were discovered? And then how did the two of you prepare that?

When these lies were happening, how did you deal with the fact that the lies were discovered? And then how did the two of you prepare that?

So as far as discovering it, I feel like I would just ask a lot of questions and the answers wouldn't add up to me. So I'd ask further questions like where are you here, let me FaceTime you, and I'd get a response It's like, well, I'm in my room, I'm falling asleep, it's dark, and I'd say, well, turn on the light. It was just questions like that that would give me the answers to tell me that I was being live to. In reference to how we got through it, I feel like maybe communication. I remember talking about it, apologies, tears as I'm being told it's not going to happen again.

So as far as discovering it, I feel like I would just ask a lot of questions and the answers wouldn't add up to me. So I'd ask further questions like where are you here, let me FaceTime you, and I'd get a response It's like, well, I'm in my room, I'm falling asleep, it's dark, and I'd say, well, turn on the light. It was just questions like that that would give me the answers to tell me that I was being live to. In reference to how we got through it, I feel like maybe communication. I remember talking about it, apologies, tears as I'm being told it's not going to happen again.

Did you believe that that it wouldn't happen again?

Did you believe that that it wouldn't happen again?

I did. This was towards the end of high school. Yes, and then when she went to college, we were about a two and a half hour drive away from each other. And what I'm saying is incidents like those just didn't make it easier being in a long distance relationship.

I did. This was towards the end of high school. Yes, and then when she went to college, we were about a two and a half hour drive away from each other. And what I'm saying is incidents like those just didn't make it easier being in a long distance relationship.

Grace mentioned that she brings up difficult conversation and she wishes you would do more of that. In terms of the trust and repairing that rupture from late high school and the colleges. Do you feel that's repaired on your end, and if not, do you bring it up as something to discuss and figure out.

Grace mentioned that she brings up difficult conversation and she wishes you would do more of that. In terms of the trust and repairing that rupture from late high school and the colleges. Do you feel that's repaired on your end, and if not, do you bring it up as something to discuss and figure out.

I don't bring that topic up, per se. I feel like we do trust each other. I feel like that was our high school selves that made those mistakes, and I know that people grow and mature, they become different people as they get older. We haven't had any recent issues when it comes to lying, So I feel like, in reference to me trusting Grace. That's gotten a lot better.

I don't bring that topic up, per se. I feel like we do trust each other. I feel like that was our high school selves that made those mistakes, and I know that people grow and mature, they become different people as they get older. We haven't had any recent issues when it comes to lying, So I feel like, in reference to me trusting Grace. That's gotten a lot better.

You know, the patterns get set up really early in a relationship, and the two of you got together at a certain time in life when you're still figuring out who you are, you're still developing emotionally. You haven't had a lot of experience in relationships because you guys were a primary relationship very early on. And so I'm thinking about not only the lies, but this question of what do you do when you fundamentally disagree about something? How do you tolerate difference in the relationship. You've Finn said I'm not okay with smoking and drinking, and Grace thought, this is the time that I want to experiment with that. And I'm sure over the course of the last ten years you've had other fundamental disagreements about things, because two different people will have different ideas at times. So how did the two of you deal with those times when you have different ideas about things? You're both looking at each other and smiling.

You know, the patterns get set up really early in a relationship, and the two of you got together at a certain time in life when you're still figuring out who you are, you're still developing emotionally. You haven't had a lot of experience in relationships because you guys were a primary relationship very early on. And so I'm thinking about not only the lies, but this question of what do you do when you fundamentally disagree about something? How do you tolerate difference in the relationship. You've Finn said I'm not okay with smoking and drinking, and Grace thought, this is the time that I want to experiment with that. And I'm sure over the course of the last ten years you've had other fundamental disagreements about things, because two different people will have different ideas at times. So how did the two of you deal with those times when you have different ideas about things? You're both looking at each other and smiling.

And maybe you can tell us about one more recent example of a disagreement and how you've dealt well or not with it.

And maybe you can tell us about one more recent example of a disagreement and how you've dealt well or not with it.

Right.

Right.

I feel like, for example, when Grace mentioned that my sister moved in with us, and there's been rules that need to be set in place for the household. We've had certain disagreements and it always just ends with just arguments to where we don't even want to talk to each other anymore.

I feel like, for example, when Grace mentioned that my sister moved in with us, and there's been rules that need to be set in place for the household. We've had certain disagreements and it always just ends with just arguments to where we don't even want to talk to each other anymore.

And to be clear with both of you, when we talk to couples, couples never argue about world peace. They argue about the towel on the floor, the suck in this. So we know it's going to sound trivial. That's what couples argue about. But give us an example of house rules that you'd argue about.

And to be clear with both of you, when we talk to couples, couples never argue about world peace. They argue about the towel on the floor, the suck in this. So we know it's going to sound trivial. That's what couples argue about. But give us an example of house rules that you'd argue about.

The most recent one was I've really struggled with food and body and people's bodies. And something that's been really difficult is Finn's sister used to make a lot of comments about people's bodies. And it was really difficult because sometimes Sin, me and his sister would be home and she would make these comments, but Finn wouldn't hear them. And I think, like just growing up, that was always something that was in my household, so I just didn't want it and like my and so it was something that I had talked to her about and something that she said she was going to work on but then it continued to happen. And I know that when you set a boundary sometimes it needs to be restated, but I just felt really unheard. That's what happens a lot when we disagree. I just feel very unheard. And so that time we had like a really bad argument because I had told him she had made a comment and I would really appreciate if he would say something when those things would come up as well, not just me. And then something that made me really upset was he had said that she had gone to him and whispered in his ear that she had lost weight. And even though I had told him that's something that I don't want to be discussed here, I just got really upset because why didn't you say something about like stopping it? And he did it? And I don't know. That was just a really hard argument. I had left the house that night just because I didn't want to talk about it.

The most recent one was I've really struggled with food and body and people's bodies. And something that's been really difficult is Finn's sister used to make a lot of comments about people's bodies. And it was really difficult because sometimes Sin, me and his sister would be home and she would make these comments, but Finn wouldn't hear them. And I think, like just growing up, that was always something that was in my household, so I just didn't want it and like my and so it was something that I had talked to her about and something that she said she was going to work on but then it continued to happen. And I know that when you set a boundary sometimes it needs to be restated, but I just felt really unheard. That's what happens a lot when we disagree. I just feel very unheard. And so that time we had like a really bad argument because I had told him she had made a comment and I would really appreciate if he would say something when those things would come up as well, not just me. And then something that made me really upset was he had said that she had gone to him and whispered in his ear that she had lost weight. And even though I had told him that's something that I don't want to be discussed here, I just got really upset because why didn't you say something about like stopping it? And he did it? And I don't know. That was just a really hard argument. I had left the house that night just because I didn't want to talk about it.

Then can you tell us you a side of that, please?

Then can you tell us you a side of that, please?

Sure? So she's always struggled with her weight, and if somebody makes any negative comments towards anybody's body type, she does not like it, which is understandable. I guess it wasn't aware that she had this conversation with my sister about, hey, in our household, we're not going to speak about body types, body weight, anything like that. So my sister one day came up to me and said, I've lost some weight, which was her goal, and I said, oh, well, hey, good for you. You know, she's telling me about one of her accomplishments. So I told her a good job. And later on, Grace and I had this conversation about, hey, we don't want these conversations being brought up in the household, so I brought it to her attention. I said, well, hey, my sister recently made this comment to me, and I told her congratulations because she was telling me of one of her accomplishments. And I just started this massive argument that why did I say congratulations? Why did I put a stop to it? That she felt like I was going against her. I felt like, WHOA, I didn't have any bad intentions. My sister came up to me to tell me something. I said, I'm just so I'm good for you for your accomplishments.

Sure? So she's always struggled with her weight, and if somebody makes any negative comments towards anybody's body type, she does not like it, which is understandable. I guess it wasn't aware that she had this conversation with my sister about, hey, in our household, we're not going to speak about body types, body weight, anything like that. So my sister one day came up to me and said, I've lost some weight, which was her goal, and I said, oh, well, hey, good for you. You know, she's telling me about one of her accomplishments. So I told her a good job. And later on, Grace and I had this conversation about, hey, we don't want these conversations being brought up in the household, so I brought it to her attention. I said, well, hey, my sister recently made this comment to me, and I told her congratulations because she was telling me of one of her accomplishments. And I just started this massive argument that why did I say congratulations? Why did I put a stop to it? That she felt like I was going against her. I felt like, WHOA, I didn't have any bad intentions. My sister came up to me to tell me something. I said, I'm just so I'm good for you for your accomplishments.

When you had that disagreement as teenagers, Grace decided to do what she wanted to do and just not tell you and you're the opposite, Finn. Your sister said that to you without Grace there, So technically you didn't have to tell Grace that your sister had that private conversation with you, but you did. And then it turned out that there was a very negative consequence to telling the truth. If Grace back then had told you the truth, there probably would have been a very negative consequence too. Actually, I'm in the backyard smoking with my friends. You would have gotten really upset, so so you're smiling. So I just want to point out that pattern that it's kind of like, if you don't tell the truth, you create a trust issue, and if you do tell the truth, you get into a huge argument. So there's no good solution here in the current way that the two of you communicate.

When you had that disagreement as teenagers, Grace decided to do what she wanted to do and just not tell you and you're the opposite, Finn. Your sister said that to you without Grace there, So technically you didn't have to tell Grace that your sister had that private conversation with you, but you did. And then it turned out that there was a very negative consequence to telling the truth. If Grace back then had told you the truth, there probably would have been a very negative consequence too. Actually, I'm in the backyard smoking with my friends. You would have gotten really upset, so so you're smiling. So I just want to point out that pattern that it's kind of like, if you don't tell the truth, you create a trust issue, and if you do tell the truth, you get into a huge argument. So there's no good solution here in the current way that the two of you communicate.

And my question would be, were you arguing the same points twenty times, which is how arguments tend to escalate. You just make the same point again and louder, or with more of an exclamation point. I just want to get a sense of how that escalated into you not sleeping in the house.

And my question would be, were you arguing the same points twenty times, which is how arguments tend to escalate. You just make the same point again and louder, or with more of an exclamation point. I just want to get a sense of how that escalated into you not sleeping in the house.

I was just working really hard to set boundaries with his sister about what was allowed and not allowed in the house. I just wanted Fenn to say, hey, Grace has already set that boundary, but the fact that he didn't just made me feel like he didn't respect the boundaries that I was trying to set.

I was just working really hard to set boundaries with his sister about what was allowed and not allowed in the house. I just wanted Fenn to say, hey, Grace has already set that boundary, but the fact that he didn't just made me feel like he didn't respect the boundaries that I was trying to set.

Finn was saying that he didn't think that violated the boundary because it was said in confidence. Maybe he shouldn't have conveyed that to you, but that was just something between he and his sister. They could have discussed it on a walk or something not in the house. The boundary is really about her saying things in front into view. That's where the disagreement is on the principle between the two of you in this case, did you talk about that principle?

Finn was saying that he didn't think that violated the boundary because it was said in confidence. Maybe he shouldn't have conveyed that to you, but that was just something between he and his sister. They could have discussed it on a walk or something not in the house. The boundary is really about her saying things in front into view. That's where the disagreement is on the principle between the two of you in this case, did you talk about that principle?

I feel like she just doesn't want any conversations about weight or body types. And what I was trying to explain to her was I didn't feel right telling my sister, Hey, I know you're coming up to me. You're confiding in me with your accomplishments about losing weight, which was your goal, and I didn't want to answer and just say, well, stop stop, I don't want to hear anything. We're not having these conversations here in this household. It's not allowed because if that was me, and I was trying to reach a goal, and I finally told somebody like, hey, this is my goal and I've accomplished it. I would feel really bad if somebody told me, don't tell me about that price.

I feel like she just doesn't want any conversations about weight or body types. And what I was trying to explain to her was I didn't feel right telling my sister, Hey, I know you're coming up to me. You're confiding in me with your accomplishments about losing weight, which was your goal, and I didn't want to answer and just say, well, stop stop, I don't want to hear anything. We're not having these conversations here in this household. It's not allowed because if that was me, and I was trying to reach a goal, and I finally told somebody like, hey, this is my goal and I've accomplished it. I would feel really bad if somebody told me, don't tell me about that price.

Just to be clear, is your request that these conversations not happen in front of you, or that these conversations never happen at all?

Just to be clear, is your request that these conversations not happen in front of you, or that these conversations never happen at all?

I guess she's not in front of me, but it makes it really difficult to hear that. Finn. I guess was praising weight loss specifically with his sister because she had told me I'm skipped meals, I'm not eating, so it wasn't accomplished in like a very healthy manner, and in my head, it was like perpetuating in eating disorder. But he didn't have that information.

I guess she's not in front of me, but it makes it really difficult to hear that. Finn. I guess was praising weight loss specifically with his sister because she had told me I'm skipped meals, I'm not eating, so it wasn't accomplished in like a very healthy manner, and in my head, it was like perpetuating in eating disorder. But he didn't have that information.

Finn, what was your purpose in telling Grace that you had had that private conversation with your sister.

Finn, what was your purpose in telling Grace that you had had that private conversation with your sister.

I believe the topic had came up somehow that night, and I told her, well, hey, I just want to tell you just so it doesn't come up later on. She says, well, why don't you tell me? And then it just blew up, like if I had just completely betrayed her.

I believe the topic had came up somehow that night, and I told her, well, hey, I just want to tell you just so it doesn't come up later on. She says, well, why don't you tell me? And then it just blew up, like if I had just completely betrayed her.

You know what's interesting about this specific argument, and I'm not sure this one's typical, but your sister, Finn, actually, by coming to you when Grace isn't in the room, whispering it just in case she's in earshot, she's actually abiding by the boundaries Grace, that you set, because she did interpret them to me, not in front of you. She was trying to abide by those boundaries by having it as a private conversation with her brother. And I just want that to be there as well, because Grace, your feeling is I don't feel heard and I don't feel seen. But in this case, she was actually doing it because she had you, and that's why it was in a whisper even when you went in the room. Do you see that, Yeah?

You know what's interesting about this specific argument, and I'm not sure this one's typical, but your sister, Finn, actually, by coming to you when Grace isn't in the room, whispering it just in case she's in earshot, she's actually abiding by the boundaries Grace, that you set, because she did interpret them to me, not in front of you. She was trying to abide by those boundaries by having it as a private conversation with her brother. And I just want that to be there as well, because Grace, your feeling is I don't feel heard and I don't feel seen. But in this case, she was actually doing it because she had you, and that's why it was in a whisper even when you went in the room. Do you see that, Yeah?

I do.

I do.

I'm wondering if the two of you would try a little experiment right now, could you have that conversation again right now, just so we can hear what it sounds like, Finn, If you could start at the point in the conversation where you told Grace that this had happened with your sister, don't try to recreate what actually happened. We want to hear you just right now. How would it sound if you had the conversation right now.

I'm wondering if the two of you would try a little experiment right now, could you have that conversation again right now, just so we can hear what it sounds like, Finn, If you could start at the point in the conversation where you told Grace that this had happened with your sister, don't try to recreate what actually happened. We want to hear you just right now. How would it sound if you had the conversation right now.

So with what we're recently talking about, I just want to let you know that my sister did come up to me. She told me that she had lost some weight and she whispered it to me, and she was excited about her goal. So I told her, good job, congratulations. I just thought i'd let you know, thank you for leving me.

So with what we're recently talking about, I just want to let you know that my sister did come up to me. She told me that she had lost some weight and she whispered it to me, and she was excited about her goal. So I told her, good job, congratulations. I just thought i'd let you know, thank you for leving me.

Now, where are you at right now, Grace, because you seen him and that obviously is not how the original discussion went. So this issue goes, what are you feeding right now?

Now, where are you at right now, Grace, because you seen him and that obviously is not how the original discussion went. So this issue goes, what are you feeding right now?

When Laurie asked about why Finn had brought that up, I don't think that it was to let me know in case I found out. We were in a really like heated argument.

When Laurie asked about why Finn had brought that up, I don't think that it was to let me know in case I found out. We were in a really like heated argument.

Already about what.

Already about what.

So we had brought her a donut and she had said, yike's two donuts in one day, like not a good thing. And so then I went to the room told him, and she makes comments like that, would you mind helping me reinforce the boundary? And then he kind of paused and he said yeah. But then I took that as he didn't actually like want to do that, even though he was saying he did. He said, so, do you just not want any conversations to be had about this? I said, well, yes, like I don't want that to happen. And He's like, she actually came up to me and was said this and like secret because she didn't want you to hear it, And so it sounded more of like because of the way that you think this is now the consequence of that of people having to tiptoe around you, and so it didn't seem like it was I'm telling you this because I don't want you to find out later. It was more I'm telling you this because I'll get the disruption that you're causing.

So we had brought her a donut and she had said, yike's two donuts in one day, like not a good thing. And so then I went to the room told him, and she makes comments like that, would you mind helping me reinforce the boundary? And then he kind of paused and he said yeah. But then I took that as he didn't actually like want to do that, even though he was saying he did. He said, so, do you just not want any conversations to be had about this? I said, well, yes, like I don't want that to happen. And He's like, she actually came up to me and was said this and like secret because she didn't want you to hear it, And so it sounded more of like because of the way that you think this is now the consequence of that of people having to tiptoe around you, and so it didn't seem like it was I'm telling you this because I don't want you to find out later. It was more I'm telling you this because I'll get the disruption that you're causing.

This is really tricky and nuance to be clear, because this was almost like a provocation. He is a donut and then she responds to the doughnuts spontaneously by saying, oh, it's too in one day, so she had her own reaction because she has her own issues, perhaps with weight and food. And my question for you, Finn is, if you disagree about where the boundary is or what's a reasonable boundary, do you feel comfortable if you have a different position to voice it on a topic that's a really sensitive topic for Grace.

This is really tricky and nuance to be clear, because this was almost like a provocation. He is a donut and then she responds to the doughnuts spontaneously by saying, oh, it's too in one day, so she had her own reaction because she has her own issues, perhaps with weight and food. And my question for you, Finn is, if you disagree about where the boundary is or what's a reasonable boundary, do you feel comfortable if you have a different position to voice it on a topic that's a really sensitive topic for Grace.

I don't feel one hundred percent confident.

I don't feel one hundred percent confident.

Can you tell Grace your point of view?

Can you tell Grace your point of view?

So that night I had explained that my point of view was if somebody came to me telling me their goals and their achievements and they were happy about it, I didn't want to shut them down. Now if it was having some sort of negative impact where they were disrespecting you, I would have immediately put a stop to it. The other thing I explained to you was, for example, if I was working toward my goals and I was finally reaching them, it would feel really good if somebody said, hey, good job. And then when you told me that that still wasn't okay, I just felt like, okay, Well, then I don't want to say anything around you.

So that night I had explained that my point of view was if somebody came to me telling me their goals and their achievements and they were happy about it, I didn't want to shut them down. Now if it was having some sort of negative impact where they were disrespecting you, I would have immediately put a stop to it. The other thing I explained to you was, for example, if I was working toward my goals and I was finally reaching them, it would feel really good if somebody said, hey, good job. And then when you told me that that still wasn't okay, I just felt like, okay, Well, then I don't want to say anything around you.

You guys are talking about the content, and what we would like you to talk about is the process. So you can argue the different points about anything. We happened to be talking about this weight boundary, but we could be talking about any of the many arguments that the two of you have had, And the process is what Grace was picking up on earlier, which is that she suspects and I suspect that she's right that you feel a bit constrained by this boundary, and you're also not sure where the boundary begins and where it ends. So can you talk to her about what the two of you do when you feel like I want to help make you feel comfortable and at the same time this is making me so uncomfortable that we need to find someplace where we both feel comfortable.

You guys are talking about the content, and what we would like you to talk about is the process. So you can argue the different points about anything. We happened to be talking about this weight boundary, but we could be talking about any of the many arguments that the two of you have had, And the process is what Grace was picking up on earlier, which is that she suspects and I suspect that she's right that you feel a bit constrained by this boundary, and you're also not sure where the boundary begins and where it ends. So can you talk to her about what the two of you do when you feel like I want to help make you feel comfortable and at the same time this is making me so uncomfortable that we need to find someplace where we both feel comfortable.

Something that we've argued about which I feel like everything ties in together has been jealousy. We've recently had arguments about jealousy and coworkers texting me where there was no the conversation ever went anywhere other than work related conversations. There was this big argument to where she went through my phone, went through my social media pretty much, and I explained to her this goes back to the trust issues as well. I said, you can look through my phone, but I just want to let you know that if you go through that, you're telling me how much you trust me. I know I'm not hiding anything. After I explained that to her, she still went through it, and I said.

Something that we've argued about which I feel like everything ties in together has been jealousy. We've recently had arguments about jealousy and coworkers texting me where there was no the conversation ever went anywhere other than work related conversations. There was this big argument to where she went through my phone, went through my social media pretty much, and I explained to her this goes back to the trust issues as well. I said, you can look through my phone, but I just want to let you know that if you go through that, you're telling me how much you trust me. I know I'm not hiding anything. After I explained that to her, she still went through it, and I said.

Okay, can you tell Grace how you feel about what happened? And then Grace, I want you to tell Finn how you feel about these texts. And what you see. We want to stick with, not the facts and not whether nobody's right or wrong here. So there's no let me tell you why I'm right. It's let me tell you how this makes me feel. That's all we want to hear.

Okay, can you tell Grace how you feel about what happened? And then Grace, I want you to tell Finn how you feel about these texts. And what you see. We want to stick with, not the facts and not whether nobody's right or wrong here. So there's no let me tell you why I'm right. It's let me tell you how this makes me feel. That's all we want to hear.

So when you want to go through my phone, are you started questioning me about text messages? I feel like maybe you just don't trust me, and I don't know. It makes me question whether I'm doing something wrong. I go through my messages, I go through my phone, and it's just I feel like a bad person for some reason, even though I feel like I'm not doing anything wrong.

So when you want to go through my phone, are you started questioning me about text messages? I feel like maybe you just don't trust me, and I don't know. It makes me question whether I'm doing something wrong. I go through my messages, I go through my phone, and it's just I feel like a bad person for some reason, even though I feel like I'm not doing anything wrong.

Yeah, I feel like because of the history that we've had with lying, sometimes I think that you're going to do something back because I hurt you like years ago. And so when I see a reoccurring coworker's name pop up, I just start to put in information that isn't there and makes me wonder about a lot of things, even though you've never given me a reason to feel that way. Sometimes those thoughts are so big that I have to do something and check and make sure.

Yeah, I feel like because of the history that we've had with lying, sometimes I think that you're going to do something back because I hurt you like years ago. And so when I see a reoccurring coworker's name pop up, I just start to put in information that isn't there and makes me wonder about a lot of things, even though you've never given me a reason to feel that way. Sometimes those thoughts are so big that I have to do something and check and make sure.

Grace, you're sitting with a lot in that moment, and you do have to do something about those feelings. Does it occur to you that one of the things you could do is come to Finn and say, hey, you know, I sometimes get these feelings that you haven't totally forgiven me or gotten over those lies I told you years ago, back in high school and college, and it makes me worry that you're still holding some kind of anger or resentment and that that will be expressed in some kind of way. So when I see a coworker's name come up, immediately go to is that how it's being expressed. I have these worries and fears, and I thought I should tell you about them, because I know you haven't given me any reason to be concerned or suspicious, but I thought you should know where my mind goes. Has it a goed to you that you can just go with the feeling without actually the behavior that signals I don't trust you, But to convey I do trust you here, I'm sharing.

Grace, you're sitting with a lot in that moment, and you do have to do something about those feelings. Does it occur to you that one of the things you could do is come to Finn and say, hey, you know, I sometimes get these feelings that you haven't totally forgiven me or gotten over those lies I told you years ago, back in high school and college, and it makes me worry that you're still holding some kind of anger or resentment and that that will be expressed in some kind of way. So when I see a coworker's name come up, immediately go to is that how it's being expressed. I have these worries and fears, and I thought I should tell you about them, because I know you haven't given me any reason to be concerned or suspicious, but I thought you should know where my mind goes. Has it a goed to you that you can just go with the feeling without actually the behavior that signals I don't trust you, But to convey I do trust you here, I'm sharing.

This what you're saying to you guys obviously the most ideal, but I think that Finn has sometimes a difficult time with receiving emotions and expressing them, and so if I think it will be met with while I'm not doing anything or the emotion won't be touched on.

This what you're saying to you guys obviously the most ideal, but I think that Finn has sometimes a difficult time with receiving emotions and expressing them, and so if I think it will be met with while I'm not doing anything or the emotion won't be touched on.

Can you tell him what would be a response that would feel really comforting and reassuring to you?

Can you tell him what would be a response that would feel really comforting and reassuring to you?

Yeah. I think if I were to come to you and tell you about what was coming up for me, I think something that would be helpful is I think sometimes like when I come to you, you ask like, well, why why do you feel that way? And I think it would just be helpful for you to respond with I would never want to like hurt you in that way of having that reassurance, I think like that would be helpful in those moments.

Yeah. I think if I were to come to you and tell you about what was coming up for me, I think something that would be helpful is I think sometimes like when I come to you, you ask like, well, why why do you feel that way? And I think it would just be helpful for you to respond with I would never want to like hurt you in that way of having that reassurance, I think like that would be helpful in those moments.

Would it help if he give you a hug in those moments?

Would it help if he give you a hug in those moments?

Yeah? And I think it would be helpful if you gave me like a.

Yeah? And I think it would be helpful if you gave me like a.

Hug, Finn.

Hug, Finn.

How does that sound to you?

How does that sound to you?

I hear what she's saying, and what I've expressed in the past is almost like if I were to apologize to what she says, I feel like I'm kind of accepting what she's saying as to you know what, You're right, I am.

I hear what she's saying, and what I've expressed in the past is almost like if I were to apologize to what she says, I feel like I'm kind of accepting what she's saying as to you know what, You're right, I am.

Did you hear that she was asking for you to apologize for something? Is that how you heard it?

Did you hear that she was asking for you to apologize for something? Is that how you heard it?

I heard she wants to be heard. I know that actually.

I heard she wants to be heard. I know that actually.

She wants to be reassured. M that's what she wants.

She wants to be reassured. M that's what she wants.

But also there's going to be a critical difference, Grace, in terms of how Finn hears it. If you say it the way I suggested, in which you say, I have these worries and concerns, they might not be reasonable. I'm going back so many years, but I'm sharing my anxiety with you. Sounds very different than sometimes I worry if you're doing such and such, if you come from the place of this might be me as opposed to it's you. Because when Finn hears as I'm feeling suspicious, he hears that as therefore you did something that triggered that, as opposed to I'm still dealing with some of these feelings, and this is what comes up, which sounds much less an accusation, And I think that's what would make it much easier for Finn to just stay with reassurance if he knew that's what you needed, as opposed to feeling like he has to defend himself because there's a subtext of accusation.

But also there's going to be a critical difference, Grace, in terms of how Finn hears it. If you say it the way I suggested, in which you say, I have these worries and concerns, they might not be reasonable. I'm going back so many years, but I'm sharing my anxiety with you. Sounds very different than sometimes I worry if you're doing such and such, if you come from the place of this might be me as opposed to it's you. Because when Finn hears as I'm feeling suspicious, he hears that as therefore you did something that triggered that, as opposed to I'm still dealing with some of these feelings, and this is what comes up, which sounds much less an accusation, And I think that's what would make it much easier for Finn to just stay with reassurance if he knew that's what you needed, as opposed to feeling like he has to defend himself because there's a subtext of accusation.

I do catch myself often trying to defend myself, and that's been another argument in itself. For example, if she'll ask me questions, why is she texting you? Why does her name always pop up? Why does she always ask you questions? Why does she call her husband? And I answer her questions, I say, well, I have more experience than my career to what I could help this person out. And after I get my explanation, and she'll say, I just don't understand why she's texting you, though I feel it's almost like I'm being interrogated.

I do catch myself often trying to defend myself, and that's been another argument in itself. For example, if she'll ask me questions, why is she texting you? Why does her name always pop up? Why does she always ask you questions? Why does she call her husband? And I answer her questions, I say, well, I have more experience than my career to what I could help this person out. And after I get my explanation, and she'll say, I just don't understand why she's texting you, though I feel it's almost like I'm being interrogated.

Or it's an attack.

Or it's an attack.

Correct, an attack? That was the word I was about.

Correct, an attack? That was the word I was about.

To say, Greece. It's interesting that the trust issues come up because you were the one who lied to Finn, and yet you question whether he's going to retaliate and be dishonest with you. So he hasn't done anything that has made you question whether you can trust him. And I'm wondering, given that some of this has to do with your insecurity, have you ever explored any of that your own history in therapy?

To say, Greece. It's interesting that the trust issues come up because you were the one who lied to Finn, and yet you question whether he's going to retaliate and be dishonest with you. So he hasn't done anything that has made you question whether you can trust him. And I'm wondering, given that some of this has to do with your insecurity, have you ever explored any of that your own history in therapy?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I currently go to therapy every week, and that's something that has been the focus most recently, the history of my confidence, because I feel like something that I've discovered in therapy is engaging in self sabotaging behaviors, and I know that it can be like overwhelming for Finn sometimes, and so I have expressed I hope that you don't get tired and like leave. He has never said he was going to, but you know, I just feel like sometimes people can only take so much.

I currently go to therapy every week, and that's something that has been the focus most recently, the history of my confidence, because I feel like something that I've discovered in therapy is engaging in self sabotaging behaviors, and I know that it can be like overwhelming for Finn sometimes, and so I have expressed I hope that you don't get tired and like leave. He has never said he was going to, but you know, I just feel like sometimes people can only take so much.

Well, that's the self sabotaging. Though. You're worried that he's going to leave, so then you try to control him in all these different ways, which might actually not make him leave, but make him feel less close to you. Yeah, So the very thing that you're afraid of, by trying to control him so that it doesn't happen, might actually make him feel overly controlled, and then he's going to feel distant from you. So we're suggesting that there are other ways. It sounds paradoxical, but to be less controlling will actually allow him to come closer to you. Yeah, And that's where you're going to have to deal with your anxiety, because it's your anxiety that you're bringing to him. It's not anything that he's done. It's this anxiety about whether you are worthy of his interest, and he's not doing anything. And you agree with that, I think in principle, Yeah.

Well, that's the self sabotaging. Though. You're worried that he's going to leave, so then you try to control him in all these different ways, which might actually not make him leave, but make him feel less close to you. Yeah, So the very thing that you're afraid of, by trying to control him so that it doesn't happen, might actually make him feel overly controlled, and then he's going to feel distant from you. So we're suggesting that there are other ways. It sounds paradoxical, but to be less controlling will actually allow him to come closer to you. Yeah, And that's where you're going to have to deal with your anxiety, because it's your anxiety that you're bringing to him. It's not anything that he's done. It's this anxiety about whether you are worthy of his interest, and he's not doing anything. And you agree with that, I think in principle, Yeah.

I do agree. I do agree that he isn't doing anything and hasn't done anything.

I do agree. I do agree that he isn't doing anything and hasn't done anything.

Finn, how does that feel to hear that? For her to say he isn't doing anything and he hasn't done anything. This huge smile swept over you.

Finn, how does that feel to hear that? For her to say he isn't doing anything and he hasn't done anything. This huge smile swept over you.

She's acknowledged that in the past, And what makes me smile is that I feel like, although that's been acknowledged, the argument have still come up.

She's acknowledged that in the past, And what makes me smile is that I feel like, although that's been acknowledged, the argument have still come up.

And Finn, have you acknowledged to Grace how that makes you feel in those moments? Have you been able to say to her something like, you know, Grace, I'm trying really hard to understand how you feel. But sometimes when it it's about your anxiety, and it comes out in a way that makes me feel that I'm defending myself a lot. And I don't feel resentful, but I might if this continues.

And Finn, have you acknowledged to Grace how that makes you feel in those moments? Have you been able to say to her something like, you know, Grace, I'm trying really hard to understand how you feel. But sometimes when it it's about your anxiety, and it comes out in a way that makes me feel that I'm defending myself a lot. And I don't feel resentful, but I might if this continues.

I think we've had that conversation.

I think we've had that conversation.

You've said those things.

You've said those things.

So we have this huge walking closet and it's in our bedroom and one time we were sitting in there and we actually had a calm conversation. We were expressing our feelings about this topic. In particular, from what I remember, I thought I had explained that to her about how I felt about this.

So we have this huge walking closet and it's in our bedroom and one time we were sitting in there and we actually had a calm conversation. We were expressing our feelings about this topic. In particular, from what I remember, I thought I had explained that to her about how I felt about this.

Yes he did, he did, Yea, what happened where you were able to go into the closet and have a really calm conversation. Is that a place that the two of you can go and have home or conversations. What happened that time that went so well, that went so differently from all of these other conversations that escalate into screaming matches.

Yes he did, he did, Yea, what happened where you were able to go into the closet and have a really calm conversation. Is that a place that the two of you can go and have home or conversations. What happened that time that went so well, that went so differently from all of these other conversations that escalate into screaming matches.

I might have been getting ready for bed, I don't remember, but she walked into the closet and she just said, hey, take a seat. We sat down and we just started talking. She apologized about things that she has said, and I believe I also apologize.

I might have been getting ready for bed, I don't remember, but she walked into the closet and she just said, hey, take a seat. We sat down and we just started talking. She apologized about things that she has said, and I believe I also apologize.

He did express. I just feel like when I'm accused of these things, it just really upsets me because I'm doing X y Z to try to build like a future for us, and it just doesn't feel great. There was like really deep conversations about emotions I really really like, and so when I have them with Finn, it just makes me really like happy when I hear about his feelings and what's coming up for him. But I feel like that's very rare.

He did express. I just feel like when I'm accused of these things, it just really upsets me because I'm doing X y Z to try to build like a future for us, and it just doesn't feel great. There was like really deep conversations about emotions I really really like, and so when I have them with Finn, it just makes me really like happy when I hear about his feelings and what's coming up for him. But I feel like that's very rare.

But that's why it's so important, Grace and Finn that we come back to this question that we're asking you what allowed that to happen in the closet at that time. What allowed you, Finn, to feel comfortable enough not to defend, but to actually be vulnerable and talk about your feelings. What was that?

But that's why it's so important, Grace and Finn that we come back to this question that we're asking you what allowed that to happen in the closet at that time. What allowed you, Finn, to feel comfortable enough not to defend, but to actually be vulnerable and talk about your feelings. What was that?

I feel like it was when I would tell her pretty much how I felt, she would look at me and listen. I remember her specifically just nodding her head to reassure me that she was listening to what I was saying.

I feel like it was when I would tell her pretty much how I felt, she would look at me and listen. I remember her specifically just nodding her head to reassure me that she was listening to what I was saying.

I think that what allowed you to say it is that she says, let's talk, and the talk started with an apology rather than an accusation. The minute you don't feel you have to defend, you have more access to your feelings because you're not busy defending, and you have a little bit more ability to express them, and then grace, you have the ability to hear them and appreciate them. And that's really important to note that when you start with the anxiety, which finnu here as an accusation or an attack, then you get defensive. Then those conversations don't go well. But when you start with a vulnerability and you respond with vulnerability, then you connect. And that is key for the two of you to remember that each being vulnerable is going to allow you to have much more productive and connective conversations than being defensive or accusatory.

I think that what allowed you to say it is that she says, let's talk, and the talk started with an apology rather than an accusation. The minute you don't feel you have to defend, you have more access to your feelings because you're not busy defending, and you have a little bit more ability to express them, and then grace, you have the ability to hear them and appreciate them. And that's really important to note that when you start with the anxiety, which finnu here as an accusation or an attack, then you get defensive. Then those conversations don't go well. But when you start with a vulnerability and you respond with vulnerability, then you connect. And that is key for the two of you to remember that each being vulnerable is going to allow you to have much more productive and connective conversations than being defensive or accusatory.

Yeah, makes sense, Chrace, what is going on for you right now?

Yeah, makes sense, Chrace, what is going on for you right now?

I think I just like appreciate guy saying that, I just want then to be more open.

I think I just like appreciate guy saying that, I just want then to be more open.

To doing that, and I think that he is open to doing that when he doesn't feel like a big argument is about to break out. Going back to the weight issue, for example, do I tell her this? Do I not tell her this? What do I do? In this moment? He can't really talk about his experience of what it's like when he feels like there's no way to please you. Yeah, because I think ultimately he wants you to feel good. But sometimes what you're asking of him feels impossible, confusing, unrealistic. That's where these conversations are so important. That you, in an ideal world might like there to be zero discussion of weight, and it's particularly in your home, and then you have this other person living with you, and you might reasonably say, look, I don't want people to discuss diets and weight and their insecurities in front of me, Okay, but they have to be able to talk about things amongst themselves because otherwise they can have their own independent relationship. Yeah, and that conversation just escalated because there's no room for both of the perspectives. So I'm wondering if we can just go back and see if you guys can have a different discussion right now about weight and what that might look like, and if you can really invite Finn to share his feelings about what this is like for him as someone who thinks you're beautiful, knows your history and wants to be able to create some harmony in the household and make you feel comfortable, but also create an environment where he feels comfortable too. Can you ask him offer an invitation to him. Both of you need to keep that in mind that when you're talking to the other person, you're offering them an invitation. You're not trying to sway them. You're trying to invite them from a place of curiosity. Can you make that invitation to him?

To doing that, and I think that he is open to doing that when he doesn't feel like a big argument is about to break out. Going back to the weight issue, for example, do I tell her this? Do I not tell her this? What do I do? In this moment? He can't really talk about his experience of what it's like when he feels like there's no way to please you. Yeah, because I think ultimately he wants you to feel good. But sometimes what you're asking of him feels impossible, confusing, unrealistic. That's where these conversations are so important. That you, in an ideal world might like there to be zero discussion of weight, and it's particularly in your home, and then you have this other person living with you, and you might reasonably say, look, I don't want people to discuss diets and weight and their insecurities in front of me, Okay, but they have to be able to talk about things amongst themselves because otherwise they can have their own independent relationship. Yeah, and that conversation just escalated because there's no room for both of the perspectives. So I'm wondering if we can just go back and see if you guys can have a different discussion right now about weight and what that might look like, and if you can really invite Finn to share his feelings about what this is like for him as someone who thinks you're beautiful, knows your history and wants to be able to create some harmony in the household and make you feel comfortable, but also create an environment where he feels comfortable too. Can you ask him offer an invitation to him. Both of you need to keep that in mind that when you're talking to the other person, you're offering them an invitation. You're not trying to sway them. You're trying to invite them from a place of curiosity. Can you make that invitation to him?

So I want to, I guess, talk about conversation and how can I make you feel more comfortable.

So I want to, I guess, talk about conversation and how can I make you feel more comfortable.

How can I reassure you that I'm okay with listening to what you have to say, that I'll really try and understand it and hear it with my ears rather than with my gut.

How can I reassure you that I'm okay with listening to what you have to say, that I'll really try and understand it and hear it with my ears rather than with my gut.

I feel like when you ask me questions, especially difficult topics like this, if I give you a response, you can't tell me that my feelings are wrong. I feel like that's what makes it tough.

I feel like when you ask me questions, especially difficult topics like this, if I give you a response, you can't tell me that my feelings are wrong. I feel like that's what makes it tough.

So what would make it comfortable or I guess like more reassuring for you in those moments?

So what would make it comfortable or I guess like more reassuring for you in those moments?

How can I reassure you that I'm listening and I'm taking in how you feel.

How can I reassure you that I'm listening and I'm taking in how you feel.

I'm thinking about the conversation that we had when we were sitting in the closet. It was a calm voice, eye contact. We were not cutting each other off.

I'm thinking about the conversation that we had when we were sitting in the closet. It was a calm voice, eye contact. We were not cutting each other off.

So Finn, can you tell her how you feel about the boundaries right now that are in the household and what you would like to see that take into account Grace's feelings but also yours.

So Finn, can you tell her how you feel about the boundaries right now that are in the household and what you would like to see that take into account Grace's feelings but also yours.

I know the boundaries that you want set in the household, to a point, I feel like they were a little vague. I want more clarification because I feel confused to where it's like, well, what can be said and what cannot be said?

I know the boundaries that you want set in the household, to a point, I feel like they were a little vague. I want more clarification because I feel confused to where it's like, well, what can be said and what cannot be said?

What do you think you would be comfortable with what's being said.

What do you think you would be comfortable with what's being said.

Me personally if I feel like it's not attacking you, For example, I've used to say clean food. Right, if I were to eat certain foods like hey, I don't want to eat junk food or dirty food, not get attacked and say, well, food's not dirty. You can't say that. Comments like that just make me say, okay, well I don't want to say anything then never mind.

Me personally if I feel like it's not attacking you, For example, I've used to say clean food. Right, if I were to eat certain foods like hey, I don't want to eat junk food or dirty food, not get attacked and say, well, food's not dirty. You can't say that. Comments like that just make me say, okay, well I don't want to say anything then never mind.

What was good there, Grace is that you were intent on following up and understanding. You stuck with it until he did get to some specificity. You mentioned feedings a couple of times, and I think it would be good for you, Finn, to have more of that. For each of the positions you have. You can have a feeling behind it. You can say, for example, or try and stay away from the things I know are problematic. But if something comes out and it's in the gray area, it would be great if you just let it go. So I didn't have to feel like I'm self conscious about talking about the stop because then I just don't want to talk about it. So you add a layer of the emotional impact before the request comes, and that makes it much easier for Grace to hear and understand, and you kind of know how you feel. It wasn't very difficult for you to articulate to get to the feelings, and that phrasing you use Grace about what would be comfortable. It's a really useful one, what would be comfortable, because it's a really considerate question to ask, So there's something generous in the question alone.

What was good there, Grace is that you were intent on following up and understanding. You stuck with it until he did get to some specificity. You mentioned feedings a couple of times, and I think it would be good for you, Finn, to have more of that. For each of the positions you have. You can have a feeling behind it. You can say, for example, or try and stay away from the things I know are problematic. But if something comes out and it's in the gray area, it would be great if you just let it go. So I didn't have to feel like I'm self conscious about talking about the stop because then I just don't want to talk about it. So you add a layer of the emotional impact before the request comes, and that makes it much easier for Grace to hear and understand, and you kind of know how you feel. It wasn't very difficult for you to articulate to get to the feelings, and that phrasing you use Grace about what would be comfortable. It's a really useful one, what would be comfortable, because it's a really considerate question to ask, So there's something generous in the question alone.

Yeah, and I'm thinking back to that original disagreement that you guys had about whether Grace could experiment or not experiment with smoking and drinking, and that's another place where you' finn felt very strongly the way Grace now feels very strongly about the way conversations and you tried to control her and it didn't work out too well. She ended up lying, She ended up going behind your back. She wasn't able to say to you, I really want to experiment with this, saying no, you don't really feel comfortable with it. I don't want to lie to you, but I also feel like this is something that I want to do right now. And maybe she would have or maybe she wouldn't have. Maybe you would have had a better conversation about it, and it wouldn't have caused so much anxiety on both sides because there would have been room for you to talk about we have this difference and we're different people and we want to make each other comfortable, but we also need to live in the world. Every couple has to manage those questions. How much do we make the other person comfortable, how much do we make ourselves comfortable? Where can those overlap where we're both comfortable, and where are the ways where we have to tolerate a little bit of difference. And that might be where you don't like the terminology he uses around something, and he can be aware of that and try to change that, But he's also saying, if I happen to use this terminology because that's what I'm used to, can we just not make a big deal out of it. I'm trying in all of these ways, and I want to be recognized for all the ways that I'm trying to make you comfortable. But at a certain point I become uncomfortable because I feel like I can't say anything without me being bad in your eyes. And same with this question around the texting and the coworker, where he's saying, I need you to trust me on this, and I will be there and give you the hug and give you the reassurance. But if it happens every single time it's going to push me away. It's going to be hard for me to do the thing that you want that makes you feel comfortable. Grace, which is me being vulnerable and opening up with you.