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Hey, Daniel, I have a great idea for how physicists should name things in science.

Hey, Daniel, I have a great idea for how physicists should name things in science.

Uh oh, I can feel my skepticism rising.

Uh oh, I can feel my skepticism rising.

Up inside, like indigestion something like that. Yeah. Well, here's the idea. So the next time you guys invent something or discover something amazing, just put the word great in front of it, you know, and just to make it seem more expressive, because I feel like you guys don't sell things enough.

Up inside, like indigestion something like that. Yeah. Well, here's the idea. So the next time you guys invent something or discover something amazing, just put the word great in front of it, you know, and just to make it seem more expressive, because I feel like you guys don't sell things enough.

You mean, like the great Daniel and Jorge explain the universe? Is that what you mean?

You mean, like the great Daniel and Jorge explain the universe? Is that what you mean?

I'm not sure that makes grammatical sense, but I mean, you know, like you do you have a you have a model of the universe and you call it the standard model. You know, Yeah, it could be a little bit better, you know, the great model of particles.

I'm not sure that makes grammatical sense, but I mean, you know, like you do you have a you have a model of the universe and you call it the standard model. You know, Yeah, it could be a little bit better, you know, the great model of particles.

Oh man, that is a great idea.

Oh man, that is a great idea.

I am Horge made cartoonists and the creator of PhD comics.

I am Horge made cartoonists and the creator of PhD comics.

Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and I only study stuff that's great, great or grape flavor. Grape is not one of the great flavors. I have to say. It's like low on the list. Who doesn't like grape juice. It's like the filler of juice, right, the banana in a smoothie. Right, nobody drinks and juice for the grape.

Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and I only study stuff that's great, great or grape flavor. Grape is not one of the great flavors. I have to say. It's like low on the list. Who doesn't like grape juice. It's like the filler of juice, right, the banana in a smoothie. Right, nobody drinks and juice for the grape.

The banana is a highlight for me in the smoothies.

The banana is a highlight for me in the smoothies.

Bananas like the canvas of smoothie on which everything else sits. You know, it's just the support everything else.

Bananas like the canvas of smoothie on which everything else sits. You know, it's just the support everything else.

We are totally different wavelengths here, Daniel.

We are totally different wavelengths here, Daniel.

You go into the smoothie store, you notice this banana in almost every single smoothie. But it's not named banana. It's like the orange smoothie, the raspberry smoothie. Banana just plays like the supporting role there.

You go into the smoothie store, you notice this banana in almost every single smoothie. But it's not named banana. It's like the orange smoothie, the raspberry smoothie. Banana just plays like the supporting role there.

No bananas are the foundation upon which all smoothies are built.

No bananas are the foundation upon which all smoothies are built.

You're saying, they're the underground sort of concrete basement.

You're saying, they're the underground sort of concrete basement.

So they're like the standard model of physics, but for smoothies. But anyways, welcome to our podcast. Daniel and Jorge explain of fruit smoothies apparently and the universe.

So they're like the standard model of physics, but for smoothies. But anyways, welcome to our podcast. Daniel and Jorge explain of fruit smoothies apparently and the universe.

Welcome to our great podcast in which we try to show you how amazing and bonkers and frankly great the universe is. And it's great not just because crazy stuff happens, but because we can't understand it. The human mind is amazingly capable of penetrating the cause and unraveling it. And that's our job today is to give you a tour of the cosmos in a way that you can understand and impress your friends with your knowledge.

Welcome to our great podcast in which we try to show you how amazing and bonkers and frankly great the universe is. And it's great not just because crazy stuff happens, but because we can't understand it. The human mind is amazingly capable of penetrating the cause and unraveling it. And that's our job today is to give you a tour of the cosmos in a way that you can understand and impress your friends with your knowledge.

Yeah, and we're also the authors of the book We Have No Idea, a guide to the Unknown Universe, which apparently a lot of our listeners do know that we wrote.

Yeah, and we're also the authors of the book We Have No Idea, a guide to the Unknown Universe, which apparently a lot of our listeners do know that we wrote.

That's true. I get a lot of questions from listeners that ask us about things that are really nicely explained in our book. And I'll say, oh, you should check out our book, and they wrap back and say, what, you guys.

That's true. I get a lot of questions from listeners that ask us about things that are really nicely explained in our book. And I'll say, oh, you should check out our book, and they wrap back and say, what, you guys.

Have a book, what you guys know how to write?

Have a book, what you guys know how to write?

I didn't say that. I just said we have a book.

I didn't say that. I just said we have a book.

I see it's a book, and it's not just an audiobook. There are actual words, right, and letters in it and cartoons.

I see it's a book, and it's not just an audiobook. There are actual words, right, and letters in it and cartoons.

Yes, it's a really fun book. It's all about the things you don't know about the universe and what scientists think they might be. And it's fun for those of you out there who are curious about the world and want to know not just what do scientists know, but what are scientists wondering about? And it features a bunch of words, but also dozens and dozens of really hilarious and clear diagrams about what's going on, drawn by a hilarious cartoonist.

Yes, it's a really fun book. It's all about the things you don't know about the universe and what scientists think they might be. And it's fun for those of you out there who are curious about the world and want to know not just what do scientists know, but what are scientists wondering about? And it features a bunch of words, but also dozens and dozens of really hilarious and clear diagrams about what's going on, drawn by a hilarious cartoonist.

I know, Oh really, who is it?

I know, Oh really, who is it?

Oh?

Oh?

I don't remember what his name is. It doesn't really matter, you know, it just people is ours from the internet?

I don't remember what his name is. It doesn't really matter, you know, it just people is ours from the internet?

Some great guy probably.

Some great guy probably.

No, So it's a great book. You guys should check it out.

No, So it's a great book. You guys should check it out.

Yeah, it's about all the things we don't know about the universe. And there's a lot we don't know about the universe, right, Daniel. I mean, there's we know some things here on Earth, and some things in our solar system, and some things out there in the galaxies and the cosmos, but there is a lot we don't know, even kind of where we are and where we sit in this big giant space.

Yeah, it's about all the things we don't know about the universe. And there's a lot we don't know about the universe, right, Daniel. I mean, there's we know some things here on Earth, and some things in our solar system, and some things out there in the galaxies and the cosmos, but there is a lot we don't know, even kind of where we are and where we sit in this big giant space.

Yeah, in the book, we make this analogy a lot that we are sort of at the beginning of an age of exploration of the universe, because I think it's easy for people to imagine back one hundred or five hundred or a thousand years ago, before we even knew like the shape of the Earth and all the land on it, it was exciting to go out and explore and to learn about our sort of neighborhood and the larger place we were on the Earth. Well, we're in that place sort of scientifically, we're still just learning how the universe works, but also very specifically, it's not like just a metaphor. We are now exploring beyond the Earth and getting maps of sort of where we are in our cosmic neighborhood, and we're really just beginning. And so every year, every decade, we look further and further out into the universe and just learn like the shape of things.

Yeah, in the book, we make this analogy a lot that we are sort of at the beginning of an age of exploration of the universe, because I think it's easy for people to imagine back one hundred or five hundred or a thousand years ago, before we even knew like the shape of the Earth and all the land on it, it was exciting to go out and explore and to learn about our sort of neighborhood and the larger place we were on the Earth. Well, we're in that place sort of scientifically, we're still just learning how the universe works, but also very specifically, it's not like just a metaphor. We are now exploring beyond the Earth and getting maps of sort of where we are in our cosmic neighborhood, and we're really just beginning. And so every year, every decade, we look further and further out into the universe and just learn like the shape of things.

Yeah, how things are arranged, how the stars and the galaxies and the clusters of galaxies, how it all sort of sits in the universe, and where we sit on it, right like in a kind of a they call our address in the universe.

Yeah, how things are arranged, how the stars and the galaxies and the clusters of galaxies, how it all sort of sits in the universe, and where we sit on it, right like in a kind of a they call our address in the universe.

Yeah, And just like explorers who are venturing around weird places on Earth and finding strange stuff, weird animals and grand canyons and new fruits and all sorts of stuff. As we look out into space, we find some weird, weird stuff out there that forces us to sort of revise our understanding of what's in the universe and how it's put together.

Yeah, And just like explorers who are venturing around weird places on Earth and finding strange stuff, weird animals and grand canyons and new fruits and all sorts of stuff. As we look out into space, we find some weird, weird stuff out there that forces us to sort of revise our understanding of what's in the universe and how it's put together.

But anyway, so, yeah, there are weird things out there that people are still discovering, and in fact, there is a real weird thing out there in space that is affecting how the galaxies and the clusters are all moving about that we really have no idea about.

But anyway, so, yeah, there are weird things out there that people are still discovering, and in fact, there is a real weird thing out there in space that is affecting how the galaxies and the clusters are all moving about that we really have no idea about.

Right, Yeah, we are building sort of a map of the universe. We look out and we see our Solar system, and we know where it sits in the galaxy. We know how the galaxy clusters together with other galaxies to make this thing we call the local group, which is a cluster of galaxies. And then we've seen further out to see how that cluster forms into superclusters. And we talked on the program once about how those superclusters line up and do these really weird sheets and bubbles and stuff. But the cool thing is that stuff is not static. It's not just like sitting there, right This is a dynamic system. If you sped up the universe on like, you know, really fast time laps, you would see stuff smashing into each other and whipping around each other. This is like a frothing, bubbling foam of stuff, but in super slow motion.

Right, Yeah, we are building sort of a map of the universe. We look out and we see our Solar system, and we know where it sits in the galaxy. We know how the galaxy clusters together with other galaxies to make this thing we call the local group, which is a cluster of galaxies. And then we've seen further out to see how that cluster forms into superclusters. And we talked on the program once about how those superclusters line up and do these really weird sheets and bubbles and stuff. But the cool thing is that stuff is not static. It's not just like sitting there, right This is a dynamic system. If you sped up the universe on like, you know, really fast time laps, you would see stuff smashing into each other and whipping around each other. This is like a frothing, bubbling foam of stuff, but in super slow motion.

Right, the universe is not retired. It's still pretty active and moving around and restless.

Right, the universe is not retired. It's still pretty active and moving around and restless.

Yeah, and you know that our galaxy is like heading towards another galaxy. And so one thing that's really fascinating to study is not just where stuff is, but where it's going.

Yeah, and you know that our galaxy is like heading towards another galaxy. And so one thing that's really fascinating to study is not just where stuff is, but where it's going.

Right, what is it going to look like? And are things going to smash together or are they going to fly further apart or are they going to stay kind of the same.

Right, what is it going to look like? And are things going to smash together or are they going to fly further apart or are they going to stay kind of the same.

Yeah, so this is a fascinating question. And several listeners here I'm counting one, two, three, four, five, six listeners independently wrote in to ask us to talk about this particular weird thing the scientists found.

Yeah, so this is a fascinating question. And several listeners here I'm counting one, two, three, four, five, six listeners independently wrote in to ask us to talk about this particular weird thing the scientists found.

Yeah, it's a very big mystery. And so here's the audio from Stephen Ganda asking us what this mystery is.

Yeah, it's a very big mystery. And so here's the audio from Stephen Ganda asking us what this mystery is.

Hello, Daniel and Orgy, this is Stephen from Calgary, Canada. I've read about the phenomena called the Great Attractor and I'd like to learn more. What do we know about it, what don't we know, and what are some theories regarding what it could be? Thank you?

Hello, Daniel and Orgy, this is Stephen from Calgary, Canada. I've read about the phenomena called the Great Attractor and I'd like to learn more. What do we know about it, what don't we know, and what are some theories regarding what it could be? Thank you?

All right, that's a great question from Steven, and he is asking us about this interesting mystery, which is this idea of the great attractor.

All right, that's a great question from Steven, and he is asking us about this interesting mystery, which is this idea of the great attractor.

Yeah, it's this amazing mystery, this huge cosmic galac question mark nearby in our cosmic neighborhood. And not just Steven, but also Mike Miller, Neil McLean, Peter McKeever, and Chris Adquez all wrote in to ask us to talk about this. So thanks to those people who wrote to us with their burning curiosity about the universe. And if you're out there and want us to talk about something, please don't be shy. Send us your questions to questions at Daniel and Jorge dot com.

Yeah, it's this amazing mystery, this huge cosmic galac question mark nearby in our cosmic neighborhood. And not just Steven, but also Mike Miller, Neil McLean, Peter McKeever, and Chris Adquez all wrote in to ask us to talk about this. So thanks to those people who wrote to us with their burning curiosity about the universe. And if you're out there and want us to talk about something, please don't be shy. Send us your questions to questions at Daniel and Jorge dot com.

So I guess they all wrote the same question similar or as the same question, which means it's a very attractive question.

So I guess they all wrote the same question similar or as the same question, which means it's a very attractive question.

Yeah, or it's a great question.

Yeah, or it's a great question.

It's a great question. And I'm also assuming they're not asking about Brad Pitt, who's also pretty attractive.

It's a great question. And I'm also assuming they're not asking about Brad Pitt, who's also pretty attractive.

He has a sort of gravitational pull on everything in Hollywood.

He has a sort of gravitational pull on everything in Hollywood.

He had a lot of gravitas, But it's.

He had a lot of gravitas, But it's.

Not a mystery, right. Everybody understands like there's a strong pull there and if everything, all the projects are sort of sucked towards him, then we know that he's around.

Not a mystery, right. Everybody understands like there's a strong pull there and if everything, all the projects are sort of sucked towards him, then we know that he's around.

Yeah, So to me, on the podcast, we'll be tackling this big mystery. We'll be asking the question, what is the great attractor?

Yeah, So to me, on the podcast, we'll be tackling this big mystery. We'll be asking the question, what is the great attractor?

Is it a what is or who is?

Is it a what is or who is?

Is this another alien episode?

Is this another alien episode?

Daniel's not saying it's not aliens. I'm not saying it's not not aliens. But you know, anything weird out there in space could be the beginning of that science fiction movie where they find aliens. You know, so with some guy in a control room going, huh, that's weird dot dot dot aliens.

Daniel's not saying it's not aliens. I'm not saying it's not not aliens. But you know, anything weird out there in space could be the beginning of that science fiction movie where they find aliens. You know, so with some guy in a control room going, huh, that's weird dot dot dot aliens.

Good thing you're not that person, because it would be aliens every time, it seems.

Good thing you're not that person, because it would be aliens every time, it seems.

If they put a big red Aliens button next to my desk and you hit it every single day.

If they put a big red Aliens button next to my desk and you hit it every single day.

Then as what's you what I have for dinner?

Then as what's you what I have for dinner?

Aliens? I don't have aliens for dinner. We can't digest aliens, man, Oh, I want to have aliens over for dinner and we can hang out with them and ask them.

Aliens? I don't have aliens for dinner. We can't digest aliens, man, Oh, I want to have aliens over for dinner and we can hang out with them and ask them.

Right. So, yeah, so we don't know who or what this great attractor is? And in fact, it just has a really pretty mysterio his name.

Right. So, yeah, so we don't know who or what this great attractor is? And in fact, it just has a really pretty mysterio his name.

It's not even the best named attractor out there. There's another one out there, even bigger, more mysterious, with a better name.

It's not even the best named attractor out there. There's another one out there, even bigger, more mysterious, with a better name.

Is there a greatest attractor?

Is there a greatest attractor?

The other one is called the Shapely Attractor?

The other one is called the Shapely Attractor?

Oh really really, that's Angelina jo Lee right in a very not safe, even.

Oh really really, that's Angelina jo Lee right in a very not safe, even.

So cosmic mysteries right here on the podcast today go double Nobel Prize.

So cosmic mysteries right here on the podcast today go double Nobel Prize.

Or heavenly gods just waiting for them to get back together. I mean, why shouldn't they be Well?

Or heavenly gods just waiting for them to get back together. I mean, why shouldn't they be Well?

I walked around campus, I used the irvine, and I asked folks if they knew what the great Attractor was.

I walked around campus, I used the irvine, and I asked folks if they knew what the great Attractor was.

So think about it for a second. If someone asked you what or who the great Attractor is, what would you say? Here's what people had to say, something to do with magnets or friend who's a physics major.

So think about it for a second. If someone asked you what or who the great Attractor is, what would you say? Here's what people had to say, something to do with magnets or friend who's a physics major.

You mentioned that.

You mentioned that.

That's a point.

That's a point.

If it's a great quantum attractor, I would think it would have something to do with sort of a black hole, something attracting everything around it.

If it's a great quantum attractor, I would think it would have something to do with sort of a black hole, something attracting everything around it.

Is it the center of galaxies?

Is it the center of galaxies?

Probably he has to.

Probably he has to.

Do it by reattracting something.

Do it by reattracting something.

I think I may have in physics in high school. I'm not too sure to be honest. All right, probably not the one you're thinking.

I think I may have in physics in high school. I'm not too sure to be honest. All right, probably not the one you're thinking.

What are you thinking of?

What are you thinking of?

Uh?

Uh?

Something gravitational?

Something gravitational?

All right? Nobody went with Brad Pitt. I guess it's just me who I'm obsessed with Brad Pitt? Or he's just in the news so much.

All right? Nobody went with Brad Pitt. I guess it's just me who I'm obsessed with Brad Pitt? Or he's just in the news so much.

You're either a singular genius or you're just wrong.

You're either a singular genius or you're just wrong.

Well, how do you how do we know it's not Brad Pitt, Daniel, I have a Brad Pitt button right here. Mind you hit the.

Well, how do you how do we know it's not Brad Pitt, Daniel, I have a Brad Pitt button right here. Mind you hit the.

Brad Pitt button. I hit the alien button. Logical conclusion is Brad Pitt he is an alien. We're just banging out the mysteries.

Brad Pitt button. I hit the alien button. Logical conclusion is Brad Pitt he is an alien. We're just banging out the mysteries.

Today, solved all the mysteries of the universe. If you can make that connection, you've done it.

Today, solved all the mysteries of the universe. If you can make that connection, you've done it.

Is that why they adopted so many children?

Is that why they adopted so many children?

Right? Who can survive being having so many children? You need? Well and still look as good as he does.

Right? Who can survive being having so many children? You need? Well and still look as good as he does.

Well, I can tell you that the Great Attractor is not Brad Pitt because the Great Attractor is something like two hundred million light years away, and last I checked, Brad Pitt was on Earth, which is considerably closer than that.

Well, I can tell you that the Great Attractor is not Brad Pitt because the Great Attractor is something like two hundred million light years away, and last I checked, Brad Pitt was on Earth, which is considerably closer than that.

All right, we'll get to talking about this great attractor. So it's something that's out there in space, right, affecting how the galaxies are moving around in space.

All right, we'll get to talking about this great attractor. So it's something that's out there in space, right, affecting how the galaxies are moving around in space.

Yeah, it seems to be this really mysterious source of gravity. It's out there in space, it's really far away, and it's pulling on everything, but nobody knows what's there, Like, what is creating all of this attraction?

Yeah, it seems to be this really mysterious source of gravity. It's out there in space, it's really far away, and it's pulling on everything, but nobody knows what's there, Like, what is creating all of this attraction?

Right? A lot of people said gravity in their answers. Is that do you think? You know? You say great attractor and people automatically think gravity.

Right? A lot of people said gravity in their answers. Is that do you think? You know? You say great attractor and people automatically think gravity.

I guess. So, Yeah, there's some connection in their minds between attraction and gravity, which makes sense. Right, If you're thinking space stuff, then it's mostly gravity that's doing the attracting.

I guess. So, Yeah, there's some connection in their minds between attraction and gravity, which makes sense. Right, If you're thinking space stuff, then it's mostly gravity that's doing the attracting.

All right, we'll get into what this great mystery, this great attractor is, and what it could be or who it could be, and ask whether it's going to suck us in it's gonna if we're going to get pulled into its attractiveness once and for all. But first, let's take a quick break.

All right, we'll get into what this great mystery, this great attractor is, and what it could be or who it could be, and ask whether it's going to suck us in it's gonna if we're going to get pulled into its attractiveness once and for all. But first, let's take a quick break.

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All right, Daniel, So there's a big mystery out there in space called the Greatctor. So break it down for us. What is the great attractor?

All right, Daniel, So there's a big mystery out there in space called the Greatctor. So break it down for us. What is the great attractor?

Well, as we said earlier, we're interested in where we are in space, but also what the stuff around us is doing, where it's going, how it's moving. We know that the universe is expanding, right, more space is being made everywhere, which means that everything is moving away from each other. Right, everything we look at is moving away from us. So it's red shifted. It's red shifted, meaning that life from it is shifted to longer wavelengths because it's moving away from us at some speed.

Well, as we said earlier, we're interested in where we are in space, but also what the stuff around us is doing, where it's going, how it's moving. We know that the universe is expanding, right, more space is being made everywhere, which means that everything is moving away from each other. Right, everything we look at is moving away from us. So it's red shifted. It's red shifted, meaning that life from it is shifted to longer wavelengths because it's moving away from us at some speed.

Right, there's sort of a general motion of the of everything in the universe being pulled apart.

Right, there's sort of a general motion of the of everything in the universe being pulled apart.

Yeah, being pulled apart. But that's sort of the overall picture. That's the average picture. Then there's sort of local variations, right, like, for example, the Earth is not moving away from the Sun. Why because the Earth is held by the gravity of the Sun. And so you can look at how fast things are moving relative to each other. They get a sense for sort of where the gravity is, Like the Sun is not moving away from the Milky Way for the same reason. Gravity's whole holding the Sun as part of the Milky Way. And then we could ask about, like what's the relative velocity between our galaxy and another galaxy or other galaxies?

Yeah, being pulled apart. But that's sort of the overall picture. That's the average picture. Then there's sort of local variations, right, like, for example, the Earth is not moving away from the Sun. Why because the Earth is held by the gravity of the Sun. And so you can look at how fast things are moving relative to each other. They get a sense for sort of where the gravity is, Like the Sun is not moving away from the Milky Way for the same reason. Gravity's whole holding the Sun as part of the Milky Way. And then we could ask about, like what's the relative velocity between our galaxy and another galaxy or other galaxies?

Right, because we're moving towards the Andromeda galaxy right, not away from it.

Right, because we're moving towards the Andromeda galaxy right, not away from it.

That's right, the Andromeda Galaxy is moving towards us. And so this is a variation relative to this expansion. If you imagine like all that expansion is sort of the baseline, then we can ask, like, the stuff around us, how is it moving relative to what you would expect from that expansion, And some of the stuff is actually moving towards us, like Andromeda, because of gravity. And so what they did is they did this red shift survey. They looked around at all the galaxies and they asked where are they going relative to the sort of baseline expansion.

That's right, the Andromeda Galaxy is moving towards us. And so this is a variation relative to this expansion. If you imagine like all that expansion is sort of the baseline, then we can ask, like, the stuff around us, how is it moving relative to what you would expect from that expansion, And some of the stuff is actually moving towards us, like Andromeda, because of gravity. And so what they did is they did this red shift survey. They looked around at all the galaxies and they asked where are they going relative to the sort of baseline expansion.

So on average, the universes expanding and everything's moving away from each other. But you're saying, sort of locally, what are the galaxies actually doing or all galaxies? Yeah, we're just the ones around us.

So on average, the universes expanding and everything's moving away from each other. But you're saying, sort of locally, what are the galaxies actually doing or all galaxies? Yeah, we're just the ones around us.

Just the ones around us is where we begin, and those are the easiest to understand and to see because they're closer. It gives us a picture for where this stuff is because we measure what the gravity is. It's just like the discovery of dark matter. You look at the rotation of a galaxy and you understand how much gravity should be there to hold it together, and then you count up all the stars and you ask, can all that gravity be explained? The answer was no, so we assumed, oh, there's some extra matter inside the galaxy to explain it. This is sort of that same strategy, but on the galactic scale, where we look at the motion of the galaxies and then we ask, can we explain the motion of those galaxies based on all the stuff we know is there.

Just the ones around us is where we begin, and those are the easiest to understand and to see because they're closer. It gives us a picture for where this stuff is because we measure what the gravity is. It's just like the discovery of dark matter. You look at the rotation of a galaxy and you understand how much gravity should be there to hold it together, and then you count up all the stars and you ask, can all that gravity be explained? The answer was no, so we assumed, oh, there's some extra matter inside the galaxy to explain it. This is sort of that same strategy, but on the galactic scale, where we look at the motion of the galaxies and then we ask, can we explain the motion of those galaxies based on all the stuff we know is there.

It's kind of like you were telling me earlier that if the Sun was invisible for some reason, we could probably still know that it's there just from seeing how the planet's move in a circle.

It's kind of like you were telling me earlier that if the Sun was invisible for some reason, we could probably still know that it's there just from seeing how the planet's move in a circle.

Around something that's right, you can deduce that stuff is there and by its gravitational effects, just like the Earth moving around the Sun, you don't need to see the Sun to know that there's something heavy there that's keeping the Earth in orbit. And the same way we discover the black hole at the center of our galaxy initially by seeing these stars orbited making these patterns that they just wouldn't make if there wasn't some really heavy, massive, invisible thing there.

Around something that's right, you can deduce that stuff is there and by its gravitational effects, just like the Earth moving around the Sun, you don't need to see the Sun to know that there's something heavy there that's keeping the Earth in orbit. And the same way we discover the black hole at the center of our galaxy initially by seeing these stars orbited making these patterns that they just wouldn't make if there wasn't some really heavy, massive, invisible thing there.

Okay, so then you're saying that we have been doing this kind of we have done this kind of analysis with the galaxies all around us just to see if everything's moving kind of in a kosher way.

Okay, so then you're saying that we have been doing this kind of we have done this kind of analysis with the galaxies all around us just to see if everything's moving kind of in a kosher way.

Yeah, we were curious, like where is everything going? And we did this calculation. We looked at everything and we measured it to red shift, and that gives us a picture for sort of like where everything is going. You can like take every galaxy and put an arrow on it and say this one's going over there, this one's going over here. And what we discovered is that first of all, we have a velocity. We have a velocity relative to sort of like the cosmic microwave background that's sort of filling space we are getting pulled somewhere.

Yeah, we were curious, like where is everything going? And we did this calculation. We looked at everything and we measured it to red shift, and that gives us a picture for sort of like where everything is going. You can like take every galaxy and put an arrow on it and say this one's going over there, this one's going over here. And what we discovered is that first of all, we have a velocity. We have a velocity relative to sort of like the cosmic microwave background that's sort of filling space we are getting pulled somewhere.

We are not the center of the universe, is what you're saying.

We are not the center of the universe, is what you're saying.

Well, you and I are, but the whole galaxy it turns out to just be dragging us down.

Well, you and I are, but the whole galaxy it turns out to just be dragging us down.

Oh, we're mosing on somewhere as a galaxy.

Oh, we're mosing on somewhere as a galaxy.

As a galaxy, we're moving actually quite fast relative to this cosmic microwave background.

As a galaxy, we're moving actually quite fast relative to this cosmic microwave background.

Oh man, she just gave me whiplash. I feel felt so stable, But now to think that our whole galaxy is moving and probably millions of miles per hour, it sort of threw me off a bit.

Oh man, she just gave me whiplash. I feel felt so stable, But now to think that our whole galaxy is moving and probably millions of miles per hour, it sort of threw me off a bit.

Yeah, and all of the galaxies together seem to be not just our galaxy, but all the galaxies together seem to be sort of sucked in the same direction. All the nearby ones are getting pulled in the same direction.

Yeah, and all of the galaxies together seem to be not just our galaxy, but all the galaxies together seem to be sort of sucked in the same direction. All the nearby ones are getting pulled in the same direction.

You mean, like there's a galaxy to our right and it's also going in the same direction we are, And there's a galaxy to our left and it's also going the same way.

You mean, like there's a galaxy to our right and it's also going in the same direction we are, And there's a galaxy to our left and it's also going the same way.

Mm hm. Now, individual ones can have variations, like Andromeda, the closest one happens becoming right at us. But if you look at the average sort of flow of the galaxies nearby, they're all pointing in the same direction, sort of like there's some huge amount of mass there creating gravity sucking everything.

Mm hm. Now, individual ones can have variations, like Andromeda, the closest one happens becoming right at us. But if you look at the average sort of flow of the galaxies nearby, they're all pointing in the same direction, sort of like there's some huge amount of mass there creating gravity sucking everything.

In wait, and so we're going towards it, or we're sort of orbiting it.

In wait, and so we're going towards it, or we're sort of orbiting it.

We're going towards it. And this is the goal, right, is to figure out how fast everything is moving, and to use that to figure out to make sort of a mass of where the mass has to be, and then compare that and say, well do we see all that mass? Right, just like we did when we discovered dark matter, we make a map of where we think the gravity is, and then we ask can we explain all that gravity using the mass from the visible stuff from.

We're going towards it. And this is the goal, right, is to figure out how fast everything is moving, and to use that to figure out to make sort of a mass of where the mass has to be, and then compare that and say, well do we see all that mass? Right, just like we did when we discovered dark matter, we make a map of where we think the gravity is, and then we ask can we explain all that gravity using the mass from the visible stuff from.

What we see and also the dark matter? Did you take that into account as well?

What we see and also the dark matter? Did you take that into account as well?

Oh crap, we forgot to account for the dark matter. Yeah, man, no we do. I mean, we know, we know we see a galaxy that we're not seeing all the mass from it. We have pretty good ways to measure the or to estimate the amount of dark matter in a galaxy based on its type and its age and all this sort of stuff.

Oh crap, we forgot to account for the dark matter. Yeah, man, no we do. I mean, we know, we know we see a galaxy that we're not seeing all the mass from it. We have pretty good ways to measure the or to estimate the amount of dark matter in a galaxy based on its type and its age and all this sort of stuff.

There was a little insulting Daniel.

There was a little insulting Daniel.

Well who was being insulting because you were like, did you remember the dark matter yes, thank you.

Well who was being insulting because you were like, did you remember the dark matter yes, thank you.

Did you carry the two? Did you carry the ones? Daniel? Because this is all very suspicious.

Did you carry the two? Did you carry the ones? Daniel? Because this is all very suspicious.

Are you gonna come over here help me with my arithmetic? Could you please? I forgot it's long division. I haven't done that forever. I need some help.

Are you gonna come over here help me with my arithmetic? Could you please? I forgot it's long division. I haven't done that forever. I need some help.

I guess what I mean is, how do you know that you've accounted for all the dark matter? I mean, you can't see the dark matter. You only have sort of like models of it.

I guess what I mean is, how do you know that you've accounted for all the dark matter? I mean, you can't see the dark matter. You only have sort of like models of it.

That's right. We don't and that's a possible explanation. But we know something is there, and we don't think that there's these blobs of invisible dark matter that are not hanging out with visible galaxies. And so what we do know is that there's some region out there that is sucking us all in, that's pulling us towards it. And we didn't expect that because we don't see anything there that can explain it.

That's right. We don't and that's a possible explanation. But we know something is there, and we don't think that there's these blobs of invisible dark matter that are not hanging out with visible galaxies. And so what we do know is that there's some region out there that is sucking us all in, that's pulling us towards it. And we didn't expect that because we don't see anything there that can explain it.

And this is like everything, all the galaxies that we see are just drums around us, because you know, we, like you say, we are part of these clusters and superclusters and gigant and ginormous walls and sheets of galaxies. You know, is everything moving towards something or just sort of locally local.

And this is like everything, all the galaxies that we see are just drums around us, because you know, we, like you say, we are part of these clusters and superclusters and gigant and ginormous walls and sheets of galaxies. You know, is everything moving towards something or just sort of locally local.

In its context means sort of part of our supercluster. So all the sort of clusters of galaxies and those clusters of clusters seem to be moving in this neighborhood towards this thing called the great attractor.

In its context means sort of part of our supercluster. So all the sort of clusters of galaxies and those clusters of clusters seem to be moving in this neighborhood towards this thing called the great attractor.

So it's like a feature of our super cluster.

So it's like a feature of our super cluster.

Yeah, but if you go even further beyond that, everything else is getting including that great attractor, is getting sucked towards something else. It's a bigger attractor called the shapely attractor.

Yeah, but if you go even further beyond that, everything else is getting including that great attractor, is getting sucked towards something else. It's a bigger attractor called the shapely attractor.

What didn't you call it the greatest attractor?

What didn't you call it the greatest attractor?

Well, it's named after a guy named Shapely. Honestly, literally, his last name is Shapeley. Aren't you going to ask me if he was pretty shapely?

Well, it's named after a guy named Shapely. Honestly, literally, his last name is Shapeley. Aren't you going to ask me if he was pretty shapely?

Or he or she? That would be inappropriate, Daniel, I have I have broadcast standards.

Or he or she? That would be inappropriate, Daniel, I have I have broadcast standards.

Oh, I should read those somewhere. I'm curious.

Oh, I should read those somewhere. I'm curious.

I thought he would be surprised that I have standards.

I thought he would be surprised that I have standards.

But one really mysterious thing about this great attractor is that it happens to be in a spot that's very difficult for us to look at mm suspiciously, suspiciously, it's a coincidence.

But one really mysterious thing about this great attractor is that it happens to be in a spot that's very difficult for us to look at mm suspiciously, suspiciously, it's a coincidence.

Why is it hard to look at it?

Why is it hard to look at it?

Well, if you look up in the night sky. The places that are easiest to see are the places where you're looking away from our galaxy. You look sort of out into deep space. If there's something out in the sky and it's hiding behind the Milky Way, it's much harder to see, just because there are a lot of stars and dust and gas between us and it, so we sort of have a bit of a cosmic blind spot.

Well, if you look up in the night sky. The places that are easiest to see are the places where you're looking away from our galaxy. You look sort of out into deep space. If there's something out in the sky and it's hiding behind the Milky Way, it's much harder to see, just because there are a lot of stars and dust and gas between us and it, so we sort of have a bit of a cosmic blind spot.

There's a big mass of something, possibly within our supercluster cluster, and there's an even bigger mass of something you're saying out in between the superclusters.

There's a big mass of something, possibly within our supercluster cluster, and there's an even bigger mass of something you're saying out in between the superclusters.

M hm, or it might be at the center of a bunch of superclusters. The shapely attractor is even less well understood. But the frustrating thing is that both of them sits sort of behind the plane of the galaxy. Like if you look in that direction, if you look up in the night sky when you're camping and you see the Milky Way, it's beautiful, it's wonderful, but it means you can't see what's behind it very well because the Milky Way is so bright. This episode is filled with great names because astronomers refer to that whole region of the sky as the zone of avoidance, as in, don't even try to do any signs there. It's just all it up and it's a it's a mess.

M hm, or it might be at the center of a bunch of superclusters. The shapely attractor is even less well understood. But the frustrating thing is that both of them sits sort of behind the plane of the galaxy. Like if you look in that direction, if you look up in the night sky when you're camping and you see the Milky Way, it's beautiful, it's wonderful, but it means you can't see what's behind it very well because the Milky Way is so bright. This episode is filled with great names because astronomers refer to that whole region of the sky as the zone of avoidance, as in, don't even try to do any signs there. It's just all it up and it's a it's a mess.

Oh. So it's in a void is not because you shouldn't go there. It's more like dot. Don't take your academic career on that area of the universe.

Oh. So it's in a void is not because you shouldn't go there. It's more like dot. Don't take your academic career on that area of the universe.

Yeah, it's sort of like the harder region to observe anything. And so if you're looking for something clear and beautiful, look somewhere else, because this is the messy spot. You know, if you want to record a beautiful symphony, you don't do it. You know, on Fifth Avenue in Manhattan, that says zone of avoidance for careful recordings.

Yeah, it's sort of like the harder region to observe anything. And so if you're looking for something clear and beautiful, look somewhere else, because this is the messy spot. You know, if you want to record a beautiful symphony, you don't do it. You know, on Fifth Avenue in Manhattan, that says zone of avoidance for careful recordings.

All right, So these things that might be really important to the universe and to how the universe is moving and changing are pretty much it's sort of occluded from us.

All right, So these things that might be really important to the universe and to how the universe is moving and changing are pretty much it's sort of occluded from us.

You're saying, Yeah, we can't really see in that direction. And there's something really fascinating and interesting out there that seems to be pulling all these galaxies towards it.

You're saying, Yeah, we can't really see in that direction. And there's something really fascinating and interesting out there that seems to be pulling all these galaxies towards it.

All right, let's get into what it could be or who it could be, and whether or not we are going to all end up being fatally attracted to this great I think.

All right, let's get into what it could be or who it could be, and whether or not we are going to all end up being fatally attracted to this great I think.

You're already attracted to Brad pittyd Im.

You're already attracted to Brad pittyd Im.

I've already played a fatal attraction with that kid.

I've already played a fatal attraction with that kid.

He's gonna listen to this episode and now he's never gonna come on the podcast.

He's gonna listen to this episode and now he's never gonna come on the podcast.

Or maybe it will be attracted to coming on the podcast. But yeah, let's get into whether or now we'll be sucked into it as well. But first, let's take a quick break.

Or maybe it will be attracted to coming on the podcast. But yeah, let's get into whether or now we'll be sucked into it as well. But first, let's take a quick break.

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All right, Daniel, the great attractor out there in space is moving galaxies in a mysterious way. So what could it be if we don't know what it is?

All right, Daniel, the great attractor out there in space is moving galaxies in a mysterious way. So what could it be if we don't know what it is?

Well, as usually, we'll have an escalating series of possible explanations from like super boring to mind blowingly crazy and insane?

Well, as usually, we'll have an escalating series of possible explanations from like super boring to mind blowingly crazy and insane?

Does it end with aliens? As usual, it's.

Does it end with aliens? As usual, it's.

Going to end with a movie pitch, of course.

Going to end with a movie pitch, of course.

Is your hand over the alien button right now? Are you itching to press it?

Is your hand over the alien button right now? Are you itching to press it?

I am? But first we've got to go through like the other possible explanations that could be, like much more boring physics.

I am? But first we've got to go through like the other possible explanations that could be, like much more boring physics.

All right, all right, so there's something causing all the galaxies to move towards a sort of an area or a point, and so what could it be. Is it a big blob of dark matter or is it you know, like it's just a giant rock.

All right, all right, so there's something causing all the galaxies to move towards a sort of an area or a point, and so what could it be. Is it a big blob of dark matter or is it you know, like it's just a giant rock.

Yeah, well it couldn't just be a giant rock, because remember this thing has the mass of like ten quadrillion suns. It's really big.

Yeah, well it couldn't just be a giant rock, because remember this thing has the mass of like ten quadrillion suns. It's really big.

How many, like equivalently, how many galaxies is that?

How many, like equivalently, how many galaxies is that?

Yeah, that would be like ten thousand Milky Way galaxies. So whatever this is, it's not small.

Yeah, that would be like ten thousand Milky Way galaxies. So whatever this is, it's not small.

You know.

You know.

We went out to sort of map the universe and see where stuff is and see its direction. We expected everything to have some relative velocity, to be some sort of jiggle, you know, think about like the galaxies is like, you know, some sort of cosmic gas. You expect them to be bouncing around a little bit. But we were pretty surprised to discover this is in the eighties, that everything was really strongly getting pulled in this one direction. So it's a big deal.

We went out to sort of map the universe and see where stuff is and see its direction. We expected everything to have some relative velocity, to be some sort of jiggle, you know, think about like the galaxies is like, you know, some sort of cosmic gas. You expect them to be bouncing around a little bit. But we were pretty surprised to discover this is in the eighties, that everything was really strongly getting pulled in this one direction. So it's a big deal.

And so it's the equivalent whatever's pulling us out there is the equivalent of ten thousand galaxies.

And so it's the equivalent whatever's pulling us out there is the equivalent of ten thousand galaxies.

It's hard to imagine, right, And each galaxy, of course has billions and billions and billions of stars and planets, so it's a lot of stuff.

It's hard to imagine, right, And each galaxy, of course has billions and billions and billions of stars and planets, so it's a lot of stuff.

Well, it's not a small mystery.

Well, it's not a small mystery.

It's not a small mystery. It's a great attract.

It's not a small mystery. It's a great attract.

It's a great mystery.

It's a great mystery.

Maybe great doesn't sell it enough. You know, that's an amazing attractor.

Maybe great doesn't sell it enough. You know, that's an amazing attractor.

The unbelievably fantastic and amazing attractor.

The unbelievably fantastic and amazing attractor.

But this sort of the simplest explanation is that it just could be a lot of stuff. It could just be that there's a lot of galaxies over there and it's hard for us to see them because they're blocked by the Milky Way.

But this sort of the simplest explanation is that it just could be a lot of stuff. It could just be that there's a lot of galaxies over there and it's hard for us to see them because they're blocked by the Milky Way.

Right, Or they could be dark, like it could just be you know, matter but not shining.

Right, Or they could be dark, like it could just be you know, matter but not shining.

Yeah, it could be. I mean, it could be just like normal matter, just like galaxies and that are bright in the same way, but you just can't see them very well. And so people, you know, they're doing this yor pointing our telescopes at this location and trying to discover is there anything back there. We've mostly been avoiding that part of this guy because it's hard to look at. But now because of this weird gravitational anomaly, there are folks pointing their infrared telescopes at this thing.

Yeah, it could be. I mean, it could be just like normal matter, just like galaxies and that are bright in the same way, but you just can't see them very well. And so people, you know, they're doing this yor pointing our telescopes at this location and trying to discover is there anything back there. We've mostly been avoiding that part of this guy because it's hard to look at. But now because of this weird gravitational anomaly, there are folks pointing their infrared telescopes at this thing.

Okay, so could it be like dark matter? Could it be a giant blob of dark matter that is just floating out there by itself.

Okay, so could it be like dark matter? Could it be a giant blob of dark matter that is just floating out there by itself.

It could be because what we see out there using infrared telescopes is not enough to explain it. Like we definitely see that there are clusters of galaxies out there. There's a lot of them in fact, but not enough to explain this.

It could be because what we see out there using infrared telescopes is not enough to explain it. Like we definitely see that there are clusters of galaxies out there. There's a lot of them in fact, but not enough to explain this.

There are galaxies out there, we're aware the greater tractor would be, but there aren't ten thousand galaxies.

There are galaxies out there, we're aware the greater tractor would be, but there aren't ten thousand galaxies.

Yeah, and you know this is hard to measure, and so there's a lot of uncertainty still, it's not like we have a very clear picture. We have to use infrared light to penetrate the gas and the dust of the Milky Way. It's easier to get through the Milky Way if you're infra red light because you get through the gas in the dust, which seems small relative to your long wavelength.

Yeah, and you know this is hard to measure, and so there's a lot of uncertainty still, it's not like we have a very clear picture. We have to use infrared light to penetrate the gas and the dust of the Milky Way. It's easier to get through the Milky Way if you're infra red light because you get through the gas in the dust, which seems small relative to your long wavelength.

Right, and you get to wear those cool infrared goggles too.

Right, and you get to wear those cool infrared goggles too.

That's basically why people do infraredict.

That's basically why people do infraredict.

Exactly do they wear while they're doing astronomy? I wonder they do?

Exactly do they wear while they're doing astronomy? I wonder they do?

Yeah, that and the snacks also.

Yeah, that and the snacks also.

Are also good, the bananas and the smoothies.

Are also good, the bananas and the smoothies.

But you know, as we said before, one of the goals is to sort of make a map of the mass of the galaxy. And we just can't see enough stuff to explain all of this mass, all of this gravity.

But you know, as we said before, one of the goals is to sort of make a map of the mass of the galaxy. And we just can't see enough stuff to explain all of this mass, all of this gravity.

It's not even dark matter, well not even.

It's not even dark matter, well not even.

Dark matter, because we expect dark matter to sort of follow the pattern of visible matter everywhere else in the universe. Galaxies form and star's form because there's dark matter there. It makes sort of these gravitational wells that pull in gas and dust and form galaxies, and you expect visible matter to sort of give you a map for where the dark matter is. So it'd be really weird to have like a huge amount of extra dark matter, like a ginormous amount, without as much visible matter with it.

Dark matter, because we expect dark matter to sort of follow the pattern of visible matter everywhere else in the universe. Galaxies form and star's form because there's dark matter there. It makes sort of these gravitational wells that pull in gas and dust and form galaxies, and you expect visible matter to sort of give you a map for where the dark matter is. So it'd be really weird to have like a huge amount of extra dark matter, like a ginormous amount, without as much visible matter with it.

It'd be weird, but not impossible. Maybe like you could taintly maybe have some dark matter floating by itself.

It'd be weird, but not impossible. Maybe like you could taintly maybe have some dark matter floating by itself.

Yeah, you could, and you'd need some sort of weird event to explain, like why that dark matter hasn't already attracted a bunch of gas and dust to make galaxies to sort of give it away. Right, It's like stealth dark Melis.

Yeah, you could, and you'd need some sort of weird event to explain, like why that dark matter hasn't already attracted a bunch of gas and dust to make galaxies to sort of give it away. Right, It's like stealth dark Melis.

I'm pressing the impressing the button right, Aliens.

I'm pressing the impressing the button right, Aliens.

All right, and you know you got to press that alien's button. But to me, the aliens button represents something larger, you know, like the things we don't understand, the reasons we're doing science, the reasons we are interested in exploring the universe is to find the new weird stuff to sort of add to our list of things we have in our great model of the universe.

All right, and you know you got to press that alien's button. But to me, the aliens button represents something larger, you know, like the things we don't understand, the reasons we're doing science, the reasons we are interested in exploring the universe is to find the new weird stuff to sort of add to our list of things we have in our great model of the universe.

It's it's almost like a mental exercise just to keep your mind open to crazy possibilities.

It's it's almost like a mental exercise just to keep your mind open to crazy possibilities.

Yeah, exactly, you want to know what else is out there, and you want to discover something new, and so first you have to like cross off the list other possible explanations before you're forced to confront the fact that maybe there's something new out there that explains to something you haven't ever seen before. Super dark matter yeah, or stealthy dark matter stealthy Yeah, we don't know matter it is. And so it could, you know, potentially be aliens, but it's sort of hard to imagine because this is a really really big lump of stuff.

Yeah, exactly, you want to know what else is out there, and you want to discover something new, and so first you have to like cross off the list other possible explanations before you're forced to confront the fact that maybe there's something new out there that explains to something you haven't ever seen before. Super dark matter yeah, or stealthy dark matter stealthy Yeah, we don't know matter it is. And so it could, you know, potentially be aliens, but it's sort of hard to imagine because this is a really really big lump of stuff.

Well, let's take off the other one on your list. You said it could be maybe dark energy, not just dark matter.

Well, let's take off the other one on your list. You said it could be maybe dark energy, not just dark matter.

Yeah, remember that dark energy is just our observation of what's happening in the universe. We see that the universe is expanding, that space between galaxies is increasing as new space is made, but that's sort of like an average thing. We've sort of measured that overall for the universe. But what we don't know is is that uniform. Is it the same everywhere? Is the expansion constant in every point in space or are there like little variations?