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Here's a little secret. Most smartphone deals aren't that exciting. To be honest, they're barely worth mentioning. But then there's AT and T and their best deals. Those are quite exciting.

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Hey Daniel, did you ever think about being an astronaut?

Hey Daniel, did you ever think about being an astronaut?

I always wanted to be an astronaut from some points of view, like I wanted to be out in space. I wanted to see the stars, I wanted to see the Earth under me. But I was also sort of terrified of getting up there.

I always wanted to be an astronaut from some points of view, like I wanted to be out in space. I wanted to see the stars, I wanted to see the Earth under me. But I was also sort of terrified of getting up there.

It's really extremely difficult. Like I talked to an astronaut last year and he said it was like writing the tip of an explosion to be on.

It's really extremely difficult. Like I talked to an astronaut last year and he said it was like writing the tip of an explosion to be on.

A rocket, and that scares me. I mean, especially after the Challenger disaster. I know, that was very vivid in my mind when I was a kid. It seems terrifying and it seems dangerous, and it is. You know, you're it's just basically you strapped to a rocket, you know.

A rocket, and that scares me. I mean, especially after the Challenger disaster. I know, that was very vivid in my mind when I was a kid. It seems terrifying and it seems dangerous, and it is. You know, you're it's just basically you strapped to a rocket, you know.

Yeah, you're literally writing an explosion.

Yeah, you're literally writing an explosion.

You're like surfing a fireball. Yeah.

You're like surfing a fireball. Yeah.

Well, would you want to go to space if it was easier?

Well, would you want to go to space if it was easier?

Yeah? I think so. You know, if you could just like, you know, get in your car and say, take me to space.

Yeah? I think so. You know, if you could just like, you know, get in your car and say, take me to space.

Or something like that, Siri, take me to Space.

Or something like that, Siri, take me to Space.

Google Directions to Space Please.

Google Directions to Space Please.

Well what if it was just as easy as getting into an elevator and then pressing the space butnton.

Well what if it was just as easy as getting into an elevator and then pressing the space butnton.

I think I would sign up for that.

I think I would sign up for that.

Yeah, cue the elevator music. Hey guys, this is Jorge and I'm Daniel, and welcome to our podcast. Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio.

Yeah, cue the elevator music. Hey guys, this is Jorge and I'm Daniel, and welcome to our podcast. Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio.

In which we take crazy stuff in the universe, including stuff people want to make and explain it to you, break it down, make sure you can understand the next time you're at a party and wanting to impress your friends with your cool science knowledge.

In which we take crazy stuff in the universe, including stuff people want to make and explain it to you, break it down, make sure you can understand the next time you're at a party and wanting to impress your friends with your cool science knowledge.

That's right. All the crazy ideas out there in the universe and the cosmos, and all the crazy ideas in people's hands that may or may not be possible.

That's right. All the crazy ideas out there in the universe and the cosmos, and all the crazy ideas in people's hands that may or may not be possible.

That's right. I'm a particle physicist.

That's right. I'm a particle physicist.

And I'm a cartoonist, and together.

And I'm a cartoonist, and together.

We wrote a book called We Have No Idea, which explores all the mysteries of the unknown and the things we don't know about the universe.

We wrote a book called We Have No Idea, which explores all the mysteries of the unknown and the things we don't know about the universe.

And together, twice a week we try to take you up into space and out into the cosmos. And today we're going to talk about a very interesting idea that's spinned out there, floating in science and engineering circles and definitely on the internet, which is a pretty interesting and different way to get to space.

And together, twice a week we try to take you up into space and out into the cosmos. And today we're going to talk about a very interesting idea that's spinned out there, floating in science and engineering circles and definitely on the internet, which is a pretty interesting and different way to get to space.

Yeah, which is really fascinating because it seems like we're sort of trapped on Earth. You know, gravity keeps us here. We've talked a lot about how gravity deforms space and makes it difficult to get off of Earth. And it's nice that gravity holds you down to Earth. But sometimes you want to get up to space. You know, if humanity wants to explore the stars and build space technology in space industry and space habitats, then eventually we've got to get off of this planet. And so we've got to somehow counteract that gravity and climb up into space.

Yeah, which is really fascinating because it seems like we're sort of trapped on Earth. You know, gravity keeps us here. We've talked a lot about how gravity deforms space and makes it difficult to get off of Earth. And it's nice that gravity holds you down to Earth. But sometimes you want to get up to space. You know, if humanity wants to explore the stars and build space technology in space industry and space habitats, then eventually we've got to get off of this planet. And so we've got to somehow counteract that gravity and climb up into space.

Yeah, and the main way we've been doing that so far is by strapping ourselves into a giant tube full of of flammable gasoline or hydroxene or a rocket fuel and then lighting that up and hoping that the explosion kind of takes us up into space.

Yeah, and the main way we've been doing that so far is by strapping ourselves into a giant tube full of of flammable gasoline or hydroxene or a rocket fuel and then lighting that up and hoping that the explosion kind of takes us up into space.

It's basically the high tech equivalent of taping a bunch of fireworks to your legs and setting them off.

It's basically the high tech equivalent of taping a bunch of fireworks to your legs and setting them off.

Right, which we advise our listeners not to.

Right, which we advise our listeners not to.

Do it's right, or riding the shockwave from a bomb on your surface or something right sounds like a bad idea. Yeah, it's carefully channeled explosions.

Do it's right, or riding the shockwave from a bomb on your surface or something right sounds like a bad idea. Yeah, it's carefully channeled explosions.

But there might be a different way to get to space. And this is a pretty interesting idea because I feel like it's the kind of idea a six year old would come up with, Like, if you, as a six year old, hey, how do you get to space? This is what they might come up.

But there might be a different way to get to space. And this is a pretty interesting idea because I feel like it's the kind of idea a six year old would come up with, Like, if you, as a six year old, hey, how do you get to space? This is what they might come up.

With Oh my god, I totally should have done that. I should have gone to a kindergarten classroom and said, what's the best way to get to space? I would have gotten some awesome ideas like last of the Moon and climb up the rope or something like that.

With Oh my god, I totally should have done that. I should have gone to a kindergarten classroom and said, what's the best way to get to space? I would have gotten some awesome ideas like last of the Moon and climb up the rope or something like that.

Yeah, probably you'd get a lot of a just use the spaceship duh jump really hot.

Yeah, probably you'd get a lot of a just use the spaceship duh jump really hot.

Now.

Now.

Today's topic on the podcast is space elevators. Are they possible? How do they work? How would they work?

Today's topic on the podcast is space elevators. Are they possible? How do they work? How would they work?

Should you ride in one? What should you pack?

Should you ride in one? What should you pack?

What's the protocol for when you're standing in a space elevator? Do you make eye contact? Do you go to the furthest opposite corner of an elevator?

What's the protocol for when you're standing in a space elevator? Do you make eye contact? Do you go to the furthest opposite corner of an elevator?

Do you say, oh wait, I'll take the next one?

Do you say, oh wait, I'll take the next one?

Do you not and do the what's up? Or have a good time? When they leave? Do you say have a good day? What do you what's the protocol?

Do you not and do the what's up? Or have a good time? When they leave? Do you say have a good day? What do you what's the protocol?

I don't know, but you know, if we do develop space elevators would be a whole impact on culture. You know, people will meet and fall in love on space elevators right, become an element in fiction. You'll see them in movies and comic books.

I don't know, but you know, if we do develop space elevators would be a whole impact on culture. You know, people will meet and fall in love on space elevators right, become an element in fiction. You'll see them in movies and comic books.

Yeah, it's a pretty fascinating idea and just a concept of elevators. You have a favorite elevator, right, Daniel.

Yeah, it's a pretty fascinating idea and just a concept of elevators. You have a favorite elevator, right, Daniel.

I do have a favorite elevator. I love that in Europe when you get into an elevator the ground floor is listed as zero for some reason that just like tickles the nerd in me. And at the Large Hadron Collider, the experiments are deep deep underground, rightther like one hundred meters underground, so that the radiation produced in the collisions doesn't affect anybody above ground. And so they have this elevator you can take down into the tunnel where the accelerator is and that the collisions happen, and it just has two buttons. One of them says zero for the ground level and the other one says minus one, and so you press it, you go whoosh down one hundred meters, which is you know, really far deep deep into the ground. So that one's really fun.

I do have a favorite elevator. I love that in Europe when you get into an elevator the ground floor is listed as zero for some reason that just like tickles the nerd in me. And at the Large Hadron Collider, the experiments are deep deep underground, rightther like one hundred meters underground, so that the radiation produced in the collisions doesn't affect anybody above ground. And so they have this elevator you can take down into the tunnel where the accelerator is and that the collisions happen, and it just has two buttons. One of them says zero for the ground level and the other one says minus one, and so you press it, you go whoosh down one hundred meters, which is you know, really far deep deep into the ground. So that one's really fun.

There are two options zero and minus one.

There are two options zero and minus one.

Yeah, exactly, there's a much there's a much more dramatic elevator and some other physics experiments, like in the Snow Lab in Canada, they go I think miles underground because they have their their experiments underground in a mine, like an old abandoned mine.

Yeah, exactly, there's a much there's a much more dramatic elevator and some other physics experiments, like in the Snow Lab in Canada, they go I think miles underground because they have their their experiments underground in a mine, like an old abandoned mine.

Did I ever tell you I have written the CERN elevator down to the bottom?

Did I ever tell you I have written the CERN elevator down to the bottom?

You have? Really? How did you? Did you sneak in? Did you pass the retinal scanner?

You have? Really? How did you? Did you sneak in? Did you pass the retinal scanner?

Or did you go yes, I am a physics ninja.

Or did you go yes, I am a physics ninja.

I remember you're in, not the physics ninja. That was our listener trying to take credit. Now, how did you get in? Did you? No?

I remember you're in, not the physics ninja. That was our listener trying to take credit. Now, how did you get in? Did you? No?

I got I was giving a tour and I went down there and it was super exciting, super fun. I didn't get to walk the tunnels, but I was kind of disappointed to see that the one comic strip that was up on the walls there was an x KCV comic strip?

I got I was giving a tour and I went down there and it was super exciting, super fun. I didn't get to walk the tunnels, but I was kind of disappointed to see that the one comic strip that was up on the walls there was an x KCV comic strip?

Did you take it down and replace it with one of yours?

Did you take it down and replace it with one of yours?

And that was well earned? It was a really funny comic.

And that was well earned? It was a really funny comic.

It was well earned.

It was well earned.

So, yeah, so getting to space is really expensive, right, and so the idea that you might be able to take an elevator sounds pretty appealing.

So, yeah, so getting to space is really expensive, right, and so the idea that you might be able to take an elevator sounds pretty appealing.

Yeah, it's really interesting why gettingto space is so expensive. You might think, like, what's the big deal? You just build a rocket and you shoot it up there? Right? How expensive could rocket fuel be? Yeah? Right? But the problem is that you need a huge amount of fuel to get to space, and you can't refuel a rocket along the way, right, You have to lift all the fuel you're gonna need from the beginning.

Yeah, it's really interesting why gettingto space is so expensive. You might think, like, what's the big deal? You just build a rocket and you shoot it up there? Right? How expensive could rocket fuel be? Yeah? Right? But the problem is that you need a huge amount of fuel to get to space, and you can't refuel a rocket along the way, right, You have to lift all the fuel you're gonna need from the beginning.

Yeah. Yeah, I saw this presentation by an Austronet ones who said that basically ninety five percent of your rocket, like by weight, like ninety five percent of the weight of your rocket is basically fuel.

Yeah. Yeah, I saw this presentation by an Austronet ones who said that basically ninety five percent of your rocket, like by weight, like ninety five percent of the weight of your rocket is basically fuel.

Yeah, exactly. Imagine if you were going to drive across the country, but there were no gas stations between here and there, and so you need to like pack all the fuel, right, So you like have a huge tanker and you fill it with fuel. So now you need extra fuel to bring that fuel, right, and so pretty soon you're carrying like a train of tankers with you. And so you're right, most of the fuels there just to lift the other fuel.

Yeah, exactly. Imagine if you were going to drive across the country, but there were no gas stations between here and there, and so you need to like pack all the fuel, right, So you like have a huge tanker and you fill it with fuel. So now you need extra fuel to bring that fuel, right, and so pretty soon you're carrying like a train of tankers with you. And so you're right, most of the fuels there just to lift the other fuel.

Yeah, So a lot of you your fuel just goes to lifting the fuel that you need to lift the other fuel to maybe a little bit use some of that to lift you up.

Yeah, So a lot of you your fuel just goes to lifting the fuel that you need to lift the other fuel to maybe a little bit use some of that to lift you up.

Yeah, exactly. It's diminishing returns. Every pound of fuel you add, a very very small amount of it actually lifts you up. And so that's why rockets are pretty inefficient, super expensive.

Yeah, exactly. It's diminishing returns. Every pound of fuel you add, a very very small amount of it actually lifts you up. And so that's why rockets are pretty inefficient, super expensive.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So when you see a rocket, just imagine ninety five percent of that long tube is basically like an explosive.

So when you see a rocket, just imagine ninety five percent of that long tube is basically like an explosive.

Right, Yeah, it's not basically an explosive. It is an explosive. I mean you explode your way to space, right like this, This is the plan, right, it is ride an explosion to space. And so that's pretty expensive, right, I was looking it up. It turns out that if you want to send one kilogram that's like two something pounds of stuff into space, it costs like twenty thousand dollars. It doesn't matter what it is, gold, mashed potatoes, hamsters, one kilogram of whatever cost about twenty thousand dollars to send a space Wow.

Right, Yeah, it's not basically an explosive. It is an explosive. I mean you explode your way to space, right like this, This is the plan, right, it is ride an explosion to space. And so that's pretty expensive, right, I was looking it up. It turns out that if you want to send one kilogram that's like two something pounds of stuff into space, it costs like twenty thousand dollars. It doesn't matter what it is, gold, mashed potatoes, hamsters, one kilogram of whatever cost about twenty thousand dollars to send a space Wow.

So it's like ten thousand dollars a pound.

So it's like ten thousand dollars a pound.

Yeah, exactly. That's some premo caviaar, you know. Yeah, And say you want to build something, right, you want to build a factory in space that can make space ships, or that can make habitats or domes or spacesuits or whatever. Right, you have to send every piece of that stuff from Earth because we don't have any manufacturing in space yet, right, you have to lift it all. It would cost so much money to make stuff on Earth and then lift it up into space.

Yeah, exactly. That's some premo caviaar, you know. Yeah, And say you want to build something, right, you want to build a factory in space that can make space ships, or that can make habitats or domes or spacesuits or whatever. Right, you have to send every piece of that stuff from Earth because we don't have any manufacturing in space yet, right, you have to lift it all. It would cost so much money to make stuff on Earth and then lift it up into space.

Yeah. Yeah, it would like all those space stations you see and science fiction movies. You've got to wonder how did they get all that metal and stuff up there?

Yeah. Yeah, it would like all those space stations you see and science fiction movies. You've got to wonder how did they get all that metal and stuff up there?

Yeah, which is exactly why I think with the future is to build a space based industry, right, build that stuff in space, right, build a factory in space that can manufacture stuff so you don't have to lift it from the Earth. But then first you have to build that first factory, right, you have to get it started somehow.

Yeah, which is exactly why I think with the future is to build a space based industry, right, build that stuff in space, right, build a factory in space that can manufacture stuff so you don't have to lift it from the Earth. But then first you have to build that first factory, right, you have to get it started somehow.

Well, you have to get up the raw materials too, right.

Well, you have to get up the raw materials too, right.

Well, there's plenty of raw materials and asteroids, right, There's lots of good metals and stuff and asteroids, so you can if you can build an asteroid mining factory in space, then you're set to go. But the first one you have to build on Earth and lift it right.

Well, there's plenty of raw materials and asteroids, right, There's lots of good metals and stuff and asteroids, so you can if you can build an asteroid mining factory in space, then you're set to go. But the first one you have to build on Earth and lift it right.

Well, so rockets seem pretty a little bit inefficient and kind of dangerous, And so there's this other idea to get things up into space called the space elevator.

Well, so rockets seem pretty a little bit inefficient and kind of dangerous, And so there's this other idea to get things up into space called the space elevator.

Yeah, exactly, And so we're going to dig into how a space elevator works and what should you take one, and is it possible and is it feasible? But before we do, we thought we would ask folks around the UC Irvine campus if they had heard of a space elevator, if they thought it was reasonable, or if they thought it was just some crazy idea A fuzzy hair physicist was asking them about.

Yeah, exactly, And so we're going to dig into how a space elevator works and what should you take one, and is it possible and is it feasible? But before we do, we thought we would ask folks around the UC Irvine campus if they had heard of a space elevator, if they thought it was reasonable, or if they thought it was just some crazy idea A fuzzy hair physicist was asking them about.

So before you listen to these answers, think about it for a second. How much do you know about space elevators? Here's what people had to say.

So before you listen to these answers, think about it for a second. How much do you know about space elevators? Here's what people had to say.

No, what would be your best guess or what a space elevator would be?

No, what would be your best guess or what a space elevator would be?

The one the Charlie and the Chocolate factory.

The one the Charlie and the Chocolate factory.

Perfect? No, it was a best guess space elevator.

Perfect? No, it was a best guess space elevator.

Yeah, can I get it? Can I get a hint.

Yeah, can I get it? Can I get a hint.

Elevator to space, elevator to space?

Elevator to space, elevator to space?

No, I don't think it's that.

No, I don't think it's that.

Alright, Thanks very much. Any any best guess what that might be? I have no idea. Yes, do you think it's possible feasible? It seems possible. I don't know about feasible. When do you think we might see one in action?

Alright, Thanks very much. Any any best guess what that might be? I have no idea. Yes, do you think it's possible feasible? It seems possible. I don't know about feasible. When do you think we might see one in action?

I think that as I understand it, the limitations have to do with materials constraints right now and the strength of the materials. So last I heard they were working on like carbon fiber that could support its own weight up to the lower Earth orbit. But I don't know how that's going.

I think that as I understand it, the limitations have to do with materials constraints right now and the strength of the materials. So last I heard they were working on like carbon fiber that could support its own weight up to the lower Earth orbit. But I don't know how that's going.

Is it like a thing used for like the space ships to like launch it up?

Is it like a thing used for like the space ships to like launch it up?

I guess something similarly.

I guess something similarly.

To that, right, an elevator in space, elevator in space or elevator to space? Two space? Sure? Space? You'd like to have a space elevator? No, I think I might die in it.

To that, right, an elevator in space, elevator in space or elevator to space? Two space? Sure? Space? You'd like to have a space elevator? No, I think I might die in it.

On a space station or something like that.

On a space station or something like that.

It takes you to like from the bridge to engineering or something.

It takes you to like from the bridge to engineering or something.

Something like that, all right, maybe something that launches you into space.

Something like that, all right, maybe something that launches you into space.

Cool?

Cool?

All right, So it sounds like a lot of people have ever heard what a space elevator is. Someone said that it was like the one Charlie the chocolate factory.

All right, So it sounds like a lot of people have ever heard what a space elevator is. Someone said that it was like the one Charlie the chocolate factory.

That was a great answer. Yeah, I love that. I love seeing people think on their feet. They're like, haven't heard that? What could it be?

That was a great answer. Yeah, I love that. I love seeing people think on their feet. They're like, haven't heard that? What could it be?

They're like, I've heard these words before. Space and elevator. Is it an elevator that uses space takes you to space?

They're like, I've heard these words before. Space and elevator. Is it an elevator that uses space takes you to space?

Yeah? Or an elevator in space?

Yeah? Or an elevator in space?

Right?

Right?

That was one of my favorite ideas. Be like, oh, it's sort of like in Star Trek when you go from like the bridge to engineering that uses an elevator, right, so very few people thought from first principles that it might be an elevator to space. One of the guys we interviewed happens to be a professor of Earth system science, and so he was very knowledgeable about the topic. As you can hear.

That was one of my favorite ideas. Be like, oh, it's sort of like in Star Trek when you go from like the bridge to engineering that uses an elevator, right, so very few people thought from first principles that it might be an elevator to space. One of the guys we interviewed happens to be a professor of Earth system science, and so he was very knowledgeable about the topic. As you can hear.

Oh, I see, he was a ringer.

Oh, I see, he was a ringer.

He was definitely a ringer.

He was definitely a ringer.

Yeah, he really elevated the topic here.

Yeah, he really elevated the topic here.

That's right, that's right.

That's right, that's right.

Before we dive in, let's take a short break.

Before we dive in, let's take a short break.

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All right, let's jump into it, Daniel, So, for what is a space elevator.

All right, let's jump into it, Daniel, So, for what is a space elevator.

The idea of space elevator is to avoid having to do the rocket lift right and instead of having to push yourself up out of Earth gravity. Right, every time you're pushing yourself out of Earth gravity, you're doing two things. First, you're keeping yourself up and second you're lifting yourself up. So, for example, say you're like, you know, five hundred feet above the Earth and you just want to hover. You don't want to go anywhere any higher. Even that just that takes energy, right.

The idea of space elevator is to avoid having to do the rocket lift right and instead of having to push yourself up out of Earth gravity. Right, every time you're pushing yourself out of Earth gravity, you're doing two things. First, you're keeping yourself up and second you're lifting yourself up. So, for example, say you're like, you know, five hundred feet above the Earth and you just want to hover. You don't want to go anywhere any higher. Even that just that takes energy, right.

You have to continually push yourself up.

You have to continually push yourself up.

Yeah, so imaginative. Instead, you could just climb a ladder. Right, there's like a ladder to space. Then when you wanted to take a break, you could stop right and you could rest and the ladder would support you. The ladder would provide that essentially the counterbalancing force against gravity to keep you up while you rested, and then did the rest of your climb.

Yeah, so imaginative. Instead, you could just climb a ladder. Right, there's like a ladder to space. Then when you wanted to take a break, you could stop right and you could rest and the ladder would support you. The ladder would provide that essentially the counterbalancing force against gravity to keep you up while you rested, and then did the rest of your climb.

Right, So you could literally just hang out, yeah, exactly, hang out in space.

Right, So you could literally just hang out, yeah, exactly, hang out in space.

Yeah. So if you could build a ladder to space, then that would save you a lot of that energy. Right. The other idea is avoid carrying all your energy with you, right, the rocket. As we were saying earlier, the big problem with the rocket is you have to carry the fuel, and then the fuel to carry the fuel and the fuel to carry the fuel and all that stuff. So if you could somehow, you know, get the energy from the ground as you were climbing, you know, like people are like throwing you, you know, candy bars as you're climbing of the ladder, then you wouldn't have to carry all those candy bars with that. So the idea of a space elevator is build something you can climb and send the energy up to the car that climbs. The climbs the elevator while it's on the way, so it doesn't have to carry it all.

Yeah. So if you could build a ladder to space, then that would save you a lot of that energy. Right. The other idea is avoid carrying all your energy with you, right, the rocket. As we were saying earlier, the big problem with the rocket is you have to carry the fuel, and then the fuel to carry the fuel and the fuel to carry the fuel and all that stuff. So if you could somehow, you know, get the energy from the ground as you were climbing, you know, like people are like throwing you, you know, candy bars as you're climbing of the ladder, then you wouldn't have to carry all those candy bars with that. So the idea of a space elevator is build something you can climb and send the energy up to the car that climbs. The climbs the elevator while it's on the way, so it doesn't have to carry it all.

Like a real elevator in a building, like you get the power form it. You don't carry all the gasoline to power the elevator. It just comes to you through the cables attached to the elevator, right.

Like a real elevator in a building, like you get the power form it. You don't carry all the gasoline to power the elevator. It just comes to you through the cables attached to the elevator, right.

That's right. This would be a slightly different structure because an elevator in a building is usually like attached to the cable and then there's an engine at the top that's pulling on the cable or something. So the basic idea here is you have a huge cable, you attach it to the ground on Earth, and then you lift the other end all the way up into space and attach it to something in space. So the idea I said earlier a six year old like lassoing the moon. That's basically the idea is like tie a string between the Earth and something in space.

That's right. This would be a slightly different structure because an elevator in a building is usually like attached to the cable and then there's an engine at the top that's pulling on the cable or something. So the basic idea here is you have a huge cable, you attach it to the ground on Earth, and then you lift the other end all the way up into space and attach it to something in space. So the idea I said earlier a six year old like lassoing the moon. That's basically the idea is like tie a string between the Earth and something in space.

Wow, okay, So I think the basic idea is to build something permanent, you know, not a rocket you use once and then throw it away, but like build a structure, something like a link between Earth and space and then just climb that every time you want to go into space exactly.

Wow, okay, So I think the basic idea is to build something permanent, you know, not a rocket you use once and then throw it away, but like build a structure, something like a link between Earth and space and then just climb that every time you want to go into space exactly.

Yeah, And so then it's reusable and you don't have to carry all the fuel with you. We'll talk in detail about how you can accomplish that, and you can take breaks, right, you don't have to provide the hovering lift as well as the climbing lift. So there's a lot of possible advantages if you can build that kind of structure. You can just hang on, yeah, exactly, you can just hang on. You can like clamp onto the rope or whatever to prevent yourself from falling. A rocket can't do that, right, it has nothing to hang onto. It's just as the air around it to push against. And when I first heard about the concept of a space elevator, I thought like, how is the rope going to stay up right? I mean if you just if you take a long rope and just like throw the end into the sky, it falls down, right, There's no way it like stays up in the sky. How does that even work?

Yeah, And so then it's reusable and you don't have to carry all the fuel with you. We'll talk in detail about how you can accomplish that, and you can take breaks, right, you don't have to provide the hovering lift as well as the climbing lift. So there's a lot of possible advantages if you can build that kind of structure. You can just hang on, yeah, exactly, you can just hang on. You can like clamp onto the rope or whatever to prevent yourself from falling. A rocket can't do that, right, it has nothing to hang onto. It's just as the air around it to push against. And when I first heard about the concept of a space elevator, I thought like, how is the rope going to stay up right? I mean if you just if you take a long rope and just like throw the end into the sky, it falls down, right, There's no way it like stays up in the sky. How does that even work?

Right, Well, you're assuming that it looks like a rope, right, Like a like this elevator could take different forms, Like it could be just a one rope that goes off into infinity like Jack and the bean Stalk, or it could be what if you just build a really really tall tower, like if you just you know, the Berk Khalifa in Dubai, What if you just keep building that up up into space. What would happen then.

Right, Well, you're assuming that it looks like a rope, right, Like a like this elevator could take different forms, Like it could be just a one rope that goes off into infinity like Jack and the bean Stalk, or it could be what if you just build a really really tall tower, like if you just you know, the Berk Khalifa in Dubai, What if you just keep building that up up into space. What would happen then.

Well, the bottom of the tower would get crushed, right. The problem with building something up from the ground and not having it be pulled from outer space. So that's the key about the space elevators, that you build it so long and so high and the rope goes so far that it's basically getting pulled from space. We'll talk about that in a moment. But the problem with building a tower, it's basically like a compression structure. Every layer sits on top of the previous layer, and then the next layer sits on top of that, and by the time you get to you know, really really tall, the bottom layer is supporting the entire structure, right, and that has to be super strong or super wide or made out of crazy materials to go anywhere close to the distance of space. So you have to have this thing be really light so we can get height without having a lot of weight.

Well, the bottom of the tower would get crushed, right. The problem with building something up from the ground and not having it be pulled from outer space. So that's the key about the space elevators, that you build it so long and so high and the rope goes so far that it's basically getting pulled from space. We'll talk about that in a moment. But the problem with building a tower, it's basically like a compression structure. Every layer sits on top of the previous layer, and then the next layer sits on top of that, and by the time you get to you know, really really tall, the bottom layer is supporting the entire structure, right, and that has to be super strong or super wide or made out of crazy materials to go anywhere close to the distance of space. So you have to have this thing be really light so we can get height without having a lot of weight.

I see, potannically, it's possible. Is it possible to just build a giant pyramid that's really really tall?

I see, potannically, it's possible. Is it possible to just build a giant pyramid that's really really tall?

Is it possible? I mean Mount Everest is a giant pyramid that's pretty pretty tall, But I don't know if we could build it. You know, like these things have to go get pretty wide in order to support all that weight. Eventually, Yeah, maybe you could build the tower babble into space, but I think it's as difficult as space elevators are. A space tower would be even more difficult. I see, all right, Yeah, the space elevator has the advantage that the top of it, the rope, is so far out into space that it pulls on the rope.

Is it possible? I mean Mount Everest is a giant pyramid that's pretty pretty tall, But I don't know if we could build it. You know, like these things have to go get pretty wide in order to support all that weight. Eventually, Yeah, maybe you could build the tower babble into space, but I think it's as difficult as space elevators are. A space tower would be even more difficult. I see, all right, Yeah, the space elevator has the advantage that the top of it, the rope, is so far out into space that it pulls on the rope.

Okay, yeah, I just think maybe we're jumping ahead, right because maybe some people think it's an elevator, so you just it means that there's an elevator shaft that takes you all the way up. You're saying that the primary way that this might work is using a cable.

Okay, yeah, I just think maybe we're jumping ahead, right because maybe some people think it's an elevator, so you just it means that there's an elevator shaft that takes you all the way up. You're saying that the primary way that this might work is using a cable.

Yes, yeah, exactly, it has to be a cable. You can't just build a building that goes all the way up into space. That has to have something at the top of it that's so far into space that it's basically escaped the Earth's gravity and is pulling, pulling whatever it is up.

Yes, yeah, exactly, it has to be a cable. You can't just build a building that goes all the way up into space. That has to have something at the top of it that's so far into space that it's basically escaped the Earth's gravity and is pulling, pulling whatever it is up.

And so that's that's is that the prevailing idea, and that this this way it could work. Maybe, like the idea is that it's it's not an elevator shaft or a tower, it's a it's like a string. Basically, you attach the string to Earth and you swing around something really heavy out into space that keeps the that rope, that string intension, Yeah exactly, and then maybe you can use that then maybe you can climb that rope in tension, that rope up into space.

And so that's that's is that the prevailing idea, and that this this way it could work. Maybe, like the idea is that it's it's not an elevator shaft or a tower, it's a it's like a string. Basically, you attach the string to Earth and you swing around something really heavy out into space that keeps the that rope, that string intension, Yeah exactly, and then maybe you can use that then maybe you can climb that rope in tension, that rope up into space.

Yeah exactly. You attach a string from the ground to something up in space, and that thing up in space is pulling on the string, right, it's keeping it up. And then yeah, and then you just climb up that rope and so it's more like a space ladder than a space elevator, if you want to think about it that way.

Yeah exactly. You attach a string from the ground to something up in space, and that thing up in space is pulling on the string, right, it's keeping it up. And then yeah, and then you just climb up that rope and so it's more like a space ladder than a space elevator, if you want to think about it that way.

Yeah, more like a space uh space cable.

Yeah, more like a space uh space cable.

It's like a space fire pole, right yeah.

It's like a space fire pole, right yeah.

Yeah, but then you would ride an elevator like you would be you would the way. You wouldn't climb it by hand. You would be inside of an elevator like structure that then climbs up the rope or the pole.

Yeah, but then you would ride an elevator like you would be you would the way. You wouldn't climb it by hand. You would be inside of an elevator like structure that then climbs up the rope or the pole.

Yeah, you'd have to be crazy strong to climb it by hand. Yeah. The basic components are you have station on the ground, the cable that goes up, some counterweight up in space to keep it up, and then you have something that climbs it, some like car or some device that basically crawls up the rope. The thing that like climbs the ladder for you, and that slips its way up the rope. So those are the basic components.

Yeah, you'd have to be crazy strong to climb it by hand. Yeah. The basic components are you have station on the ground, the cable that goes up, some counterweight up in space to keep it up, and then you have something that climbs it, some like car or some device that basically crawls up the rope. The thing that like climbs the ladder for you, and that slips its way up the rope. So those are the basic components.

Yeah, it's hard to imagine how that rope stays up, Like what keeps that rope vertical?

Yeah, it's hard to imagine how that rope stays up, Like what keeps that rope vertical?

Yeah, exactly. That's the thing that puzzled me for a long time when I was thinking about the space elevator, because it's just counter to your intuition, right, you think the things that go up in sky come down right. But the truth is, if you throw things high enough up into the sky, they don't come down right. They go into orbit. And so at some point the force of gravity weakens enough and the centrifugal force is strong long enough that they stay up there. You know. Imagine, for example, you are you have a bucket with a rope and you're swinging it around yourself. Right. Then you know, water for example, can stay in the bucket, even if the bucket goes upside down. Right. Why is that? It's because of this apparent force, a centrifugal force, and so that's pushing things away if you're spinning, right, it's the fact that the Earth is spinning provides this sort of outwards apparent centrifal force mm.

Yeah, exactly. That's the thing that puzzled me for a long time when I was thinking about the space elevator, because it's just counter to your intuition, right, you think the things that go up in sky come down right. But the truth is, if you throw things high enough up into the sky, they don't come down right. They go into orbit. And so at some point the force of gravity weakens enough and the centrifugal force is strong long enough that they stay up there. You know. Imagine, for example, you are you have a bucket with a rope and you're swinging it around yourself. Right. Then you know, water for example, can stay in the bucket, even if the bucket goes upside down. Right. Why is that? It's because of this apparent force, a centrifugal force, and so that's pushing things away if you're spinning, right, it's the fact that the Earth is spinning provides this sort of outwards apparent centrifal force mm.

And so it'd be like the Earth is rotating around and you tie string to it, and the swinging around of some big weight at the end of the rope is what keeps the rope vertical and intention and then you can climb that rope to get to space.

And so it'd be like the Earth is rotating around and you tie string to it, and the swinging around of some big weight at the end of the rope is what keeps the rope vertical and intention and then you can climb that rope to get to space.

Exactly. The center of mass of the whole structure is above the orbit level. Right at some point above the Earth, the force of gravity gets weaker, and the centrifugal force actually gets stronger with distance, and so at some point above the Earth they're equal. That's what we call like where geosynchronous orbit can happen that it's in balance, it can just stay in orbit. And so the idea is to put something really heavy above that so that the average weight, like where's the average bit of mass of the space elevator is above that orbit level and so it's just like something in orbit. I mean, you can think of it like something in orbit with that dangles down really really low.

Exactly. The center of mass of the whole structure is above the orbit level. Right at some point above the Earth, the force of gravity gets weaker, and the centrifugal force actually gets stronger with distance, and so at some point above the Earth they're equal. That's what we call like where geosynchronous orbit can happen that it's in balance, it can just stay in orbit. And so the idea is to put something really heavy above that so that the average weight, like where's the average bit of mass of the space elevator is above that orbit level and so it's just like something in orbit. I mean, you can think of it like something in orbit with that dangles down really really low.

Oh, I see, it doesn't have to be attached to Earth, is what you're saying.

Oh, I see, it doesn't have to be attached to Earth, is what you're saying.

It doesn't have to be attached to Earth, but it's better if it is, right, you don't want to climb someone which is actually dangling. But just some point of view of the physics, like why does it stay up? It's you know, the fact that it's attached to Earth is not what keeps it up, right. The thing that keeps it up is what they said, it's attached to the part in space. Right.

It doesn't have to be attached to Earth, but it's better if it is, right, you don't want to climb someone which is actually dangling. But just some point of view of the physics, like why does it stay up? It's you know, the fact that it's attached to Earth is not what keeps it up, right. The thing that keeps it up is what they said, it's attached to the part in space. Right.

That's interesting, Like people in the International Space Station could potentially, i mean physically just kind of let out a little bit of string down into Earth, and at some point it might touch the Earth and it would just hang there between the station and Earth.

That's interesting, Like people in the International Space Station could potentially, i mean physically just kind of let out a little bit of string down into Earth, and at some point it might touch the Earth and it would just hang there between the station and Earth.

Right, And your intuition tells you that should work, right, And that's basically the same thing.

Right, And your intuition tells you that should work, right, And that's basically the same thing.

Yeah, and then you just clip that rope deer acarash and you're done.

Yeah, and then you just clip that rope deer acarash and you're done.

Yeah. But the key is that the thing is in geosynchronous orbit, right, so it's always above the same part of the Earth. Because you don't want this robe like dragging across the surface of the Earth, right, that wouldn't be a lot of fun.

Yeah. But the key is that the thing is in geosynchronous orbit, right, so it's always above the same part of the Earth. Because you don't want this robe like dragging across the surface of the Earth, right, that wouldn't be a lot of fun.

Like Bruce Willis movie.

Like Bruce Willis movie.

Exactly exactly. So you want to have some like big station on the ground where this thing clips in, and so you have this like a spaceport on the ground and then a place you can arrive above the Earth. And so that's the basic physics of it.

Exactly exactly. So you want to have some like big station on the ground where this thing clips in, and so you have this like a spaceport on the ground and then a place you can arrive above the Earth. And so that's the basic physics of it.

Well, this is pretty cool. You said. You told me that basically the point at which you would reach this geostationary or orbit is about thirty six thousand kilometers out into space.

Well, this is pretty cool. You said. You told me that basically the point at which you would reach this geostationary or orbit is about thirty six thousand kilometers out into space.

Yeah, exactly. So you need to have enough mass above that height so that on average the mass of the whole thing is just above thirty six thousand kilometers above the Earth.

Yeah, exactly. So you need to have enough mass above that height so that on average the mass of the whole thing is just above thirty six thousand kilometers above the Earth.

And just for reference, like the moon is about three hundred and eighty thousand kilometers way, so it's like a tenth of the way to the moon you could have this elevator.

And just for reference, like the moon is about three hundred and eighty thousand kilometers way, so it's like a tenth of the way to the moon you could have this elevator.

Yeah, exactly, So that makes it sound totally plausible. Right, you don't even need to last of the moon. You just have to last of the space station, right exactly. But that's a really long rope. Right.

Yeah, exactly, So that makes it sound totally plausible. Right, you don't even need to last of the moon. You just have to last of the space station, right exactly. But that's a really long rope. Right.

Well, let's see how long would it take you to get there, like thirty six thousand kilometers away, and let's say that your elevator is going up at two hundred kilometers per hour, it would take you long. How much is that?

Well, let's see how long would it take you to get there, like thirty six thousand kilometers away, and let's say that your elevator is going up at two hundred kilometers per hour, it would take you long. How much is that?

Well, that's you know, five hours to go a thousand kilometers, right, so one hundred and eighty hours or so, So that's a few days. You know, when you get in at the bottom, you're going to look around because you're going to be with those folks for a while.

Well, that's you know, five hours to go a thousand kilometers, right, so one hundred and eighty hours or so, So that's a few days. You know, when you get in at the bottom, you're going to look around because you're going to be with those folks for a while.

Oh and then hope nobody passes some wind or exactly, bring some chili longer.

Oh and then hope nobody passes some wind or exactly, bring some chili longer.

Pay attention to what everybody's eating just before they get on the space elevator. Yeah, no, it's a lot like a super long airline flight, but days long.

Pay attention to what everybody's eating just before they get on the space elevator. Yeah, no, it's a lot like a super long airline flight, but days long.

Right, Oh wow, that'd be amazing. But then at the end of the two days, at the end of the ten days, you'd be in space.

Right, Oh wow, that'd be amazing. But then at the end of the two days, at the end of the ten days, you'd be in space.

Yeah, exactly, you'd be in space. And even that number, like two hundred klometers per hour, that's pretty fast. That's pretty fast for an elevator, right, So I don't know how plausible or how comfortable that would be. It seems to be pretty sippy for an elevator. But if you get those speeds up, then you could get the time down. And you know, ten days is a long time for a passenger. But I think in the beginning, the more important thing is lifting up cargo. Right. If you're gonna build industry in space so you can build space ships and habitats and all that kind of stuff, then you gotta you're gonna lift stuff up into space.

Yeah, exactly, you'd be in space. And even that number, like two hundred klometers per hour, that's pretty fast. That's pretty fast for an elevator, right, So I don't know how plausible or how comfortable that would be. It seems to be pretty sippy for an elevator. But if you get those speeds up, then you could get the time down. And you know, ten days is a long time for a passenger. But I think in the beginning, the more important thing is lifting up cargo. Right. If you're gonna build industry in space so you can build space ships and habitats and all that kind of stuff, then you gotta you're gonna lift stuff up into space.

Okay, So that's the concept. As you do, you put a cable between the Earth, you tie it down here, and you tie the other end to something heavy and swinging around the Earth in orbit geosynchronous orbit, and then you just pulled yourself up the cable to get to space.

Okay, So that's the concept. As you do, you put a cable between the Earth, you tie it down here, and you tie the other end to something heavy and swinging around the Earth in orbit geosynchronous orbit, and then you just pulled yourself up the cable to get to space.

Yeah, sounds simple. Just pull yourself up.

Yeah, sounds simple. Just pull yourself up.

Oh yeah, let's do it. Hold on, I'm gonna I'm gonna take care of this.

Oh yeah, let's do it. Hold on, I'm gonna I'm gonna take care of this.

I want to imagine you selling tickets at the bottom You're like, it's one thousand dollars and just you know, pull yourself on up.

I want to imagine you selling tickets at the bottom You're like, it's one thousand dollars and just you know, pull yourself on up.

Yeah. Well, let's get into why it's possible or maybe impossible. But first let's take a quick break.

Yeah. Well, let's get into why it's possible or maybe impossible. But first let's take a quick break.

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All right. So that's a space elevator. It's a giant rope tied to Earth and tied to on the other end, to something floating out into space. And the idea is that we just get on an elevator elevator that climbs that robe. So where's the what's the difficult part here? Why can't we just build one?

All right. So that's a space elevator. It's a giant rope tied to Earth and tied to on the other end, to something floating out into space. And the idea is that we just get on an elevator elevator that climbs that robe. So where's the what's the difficult part here? Why can't we just build one?

Oh? I'm building one right now, should be done next week. You want to come down try it out?

Oh? I'm building one right now, should be done next week. You want to come down try it out?

All right?

All right?

Yeah, it's made out of paper clips.

Yeah, it's made out of paper clips.

I can see it from here.

I can see it from here.

Oh my god, there's a lot of hard parts in this line. First of all, you're talking about attaching a rope to something heavy out in space? What right, Like do you corral an asteroid? Do you collect a bunch of space junk and build a garbage mountain in space? Like you need something big and heavy that you can understand and snap a cable too, And.

Oh my god, there's a lot of hard parts in this line. First of all, you're talking about attaching a rope to something heavy out in space? What right, Like do you corral an asteroid? Do you collect a bunch of space junk and build a garbage mountain in space? Like you need something big and heavy that you can understand and snap a cable too, And.

Wait, why does it need to be? Like how heavy does it need to be? Like does it need to be you know, like the size of the moon or the size of a bus.

Wait, why does it need to be? Like how heavy does it need to be? Like does it need to be you know, like the size of the moon or the size of a bus.

Or what it needs to be? Definitely thousands and thousands of kilos. Exact size depends on the distance. So the longer your rope, the further away this rock can be, and the lighter it can be, right, because this centrifugal force grows with radius, and so it doesn't need to be as heavy if it's longer, But then you have to build a longer rope. If you want a shorter rope, then you need a larger mass. And so it's a bit of a balancing act.

Or what it needs to be? Definitely thousands and thousands of kilos. Exact size depends on the distance. So the longer your rope, the further away this rock can be, and the lighter it can be, right, because this centrifugal force grows with radius, and so it doesn't need to be as heavy if it's longer, But then you have to build a longer rope. If you want a shorter rope, then you need a larger mass. And so it's a bit of a balancing act.

But we just collect all those junk satellites and make a giant satellite ball and that's it.

But we just collect all those junk satellites and make a giant satellite ball and that's it.

Yeah, or yeah, or maybe we could just like gather all the plastic from the ocean and use that, right, a huge you know, plastic straw ball in space would be pretty cool. So that's problem number one.

Yeah, or yeah, or maybe we could just like gather all the plastic from the ocean and use that, right, a huge you know, plastic straw ball in space would be pretty cool. So that's problem number one.

Yeah, that is the thing that's out there holding the elevator up.

Yeah, that is the thing that's out there holding the elevator up.

Yeah, but the bigger problem is connecting it right. Like, say you have a big asteroid in space. You're all set to big built your space elevator. How do you make such a rope? You know, this thing has to be like thousands of kilometers long, it has to be super strong, it has to never ever ever break right, and most importantly, it has to be strong enough to hold itself up.

Yeah, but the bigger problem is connecting it right. Like, say you have a big asteroid in space. You're all set to big built your space elevator. How do you make such a rope? You know, this thing has to be like thousands of kilometers long, it has to be super strong, it has to never ever ever break right, and most importantly, it has to be strong enough to hold itself up.

What do you mean strong enough to hold itself up? Didn't we say that the rope is pretty much kind of floating out into space.

What do you mean strong enough to hold itself up? Didn't we say that the rope is pretty much kind of floating out into space.

Yeah, well, you can imagine there's sort of two halves of it. Right, there's some average point where half the mass of the space elevators above it and half the masses below it. Everything above that point is getting pulled out into space. Cool. Everything below that point is getting pulled down towards the Earth. It still has weight, right, So even if the whole thing is being held up, then those elements of the rope that are right there at that halfway point, they have to be strong enough to hold all that weight below them. Even if there's a force on the other end, pulling on the rope to provide it to keep it up. The rope has to be strong enough, right.