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Hey Daniel, I have a question for you that you might not like.

Hey Daniel, I have a question for you that you might not like.

Uh oh, what is it?

Uh oh, what is it?

It's about aliens? Your favorite topic?

It's about aliens? Your favorite topic?

Ooh, I love it already.

Ooh, I love it already.

What is it?

What is it?

Okay? So if we can't send messages faster than light? Right, all the other planets are light years away. Wouldn't any communication or messages exchanged with aliens take years or decades?

Okay? So if we can't send messages faster than light? Right, all the other planets are light years away. Wouldn't any communication or messages exchanged with aliens take years or decades?

Ah, you're right, I don't like that question.

Ah, you're right, I don't like that question.

Hi. I'm Poorhaan May, cartoonists and the creator of PhD Comics.

Hi. I'm Poorhaan May, cartoonists and the creator of PhD Comics.

Hi. I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and the co author of our book We Have No Idea, a guide did the un Known Universe that tells you all the things we don't know about the universe. Yeah.

Hi. I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and the co author of our book We Have No Idea, a guide did the un Known Universe that tells you all the things we don't know about the universe. Yeah.

It's a great book, which also functions as a nice quantum banana stand or.

It's a great book, which also functions as a nice quantum banana stand or.

In anything stand really, once you're done reading it.

In anything stand really, once you're done reading it.

It's multipurpose.

It's multipurpose.

You could buy thousands of copies and build a house out of them.

You could buy thousands of copies and build a house out of them.

But welcome to our podcast, Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio.

But welcome to our podcast, Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio.

In which we try to find amazing and crazy and fascinating things about our universe and explain them to you. We want to take you to the cutting edge of science and break it down so that you have a working understanding of it. Science is not something meant just for a few people in an ivory tower. Science is by the people, of the people and for the people.

In which we try to find amazing and crazy and fascinating things about our universe and explain them to you. We want to take you to the cutting edge of science and break it down so that you have a working understanding of it. Science is not something meant just for a few people in an ivory tower. Science is by the people, of the people and for the people.

That's right. It's a constitutional right to know your science and to have physicists explain it to you.

That's right. It's a constitutional right to know your science and to have physicists explain it to you.

That's right. It doesn't make it democratic, but it should be accessible.

That's right. It doesn't make it democratic, but it should be accessible.

Do you think is physics governed by democratic principles?

Do you think is physics governed by democratic principles?

Daniel, It'd be awesome if we could change the laws of the universe by voting on it, like, Hey, who wants to have fast and light travel? Oo oo me and we all vote on it and then it's possible. That would be pretty awesome.

Daniel, It'd be awesome if we could change the laws of the universe by voting on it, like, Hey, who wants to have fast and light travel? Oo oo me and we all vote on it and then it's possible. That would be pretty awesome.

And the universe has to follow the rules.

And the universe has to follow the rules.

Hey, if it's a democracy, right, then we could like amend the laws of physics. Right.

Hey, if it's a democracy, right, then we could like amend the laws of physics. Right.

Well, if our government is any indication that, I think we'd all be in deep trouble.

Well, if our government is any indication that, I think we'd all be in deep trouble.

I think Mitch McConnell would stand in the way of any revolution we want in the laws of physics.

I think Mitch McConnell would stand in the way of any revolution we want in the laws of physics.

Yeah. I think we'd probably splinter into different universes.

Yeah. I think we'd probably splinter into different universes.

That's right. We'd have people arguing for these set of laws and other people saying, no, we want this to be possible. Maybe we should not wish to have that kind of power.

That's right. We'd have people arguing for these set of laws and other people saying, no, we want this to be possible. Maybe we should not wish to have that kind of power.

Yeah, Yeah, let's stick to the undemocratic universe in which we actually live in the dictatorial quantum universe, that's right. So yeah, So today on the program, we'll be talking about a problem that a lot of people see if we ever do find other life in the universe.

Yeah, Yeah, let's stick to the undemocratic universe in which we actually live in the dictatorial quantum universe, that's right. So yeah, So today on the program, we'll be talking about a problem that a lot of people see if we ever do find other life in the universe.

Right, Yeah, there are certain things about the laws of physics which are fascinating but also frustrating that put limits on us. And you know, if we did find aliens, even in one of the nearby stars that are light years and light years away, it would be difficult to have a conversation with them because light or anything else takes years to get there and years to get back.

Right, Yeah, there are certain things about the laws of physics which are fascinating but also frustrating that put limits on us. And you know, if we did find aliens, even in one of the nearby stars that are light years and light years away, it would be difficult to have a conversation with them because light or anything else takes years to get there and years to get back.

Yeah, it would be a really awkward conversation. Right, You'd be like, hey, how's it going, and then you'd have to wait twenty years or more maybe to get an answer that says pretty good you.

Yeah, it would be a really awkward conversation. Right, You'd be like, hey, how's it going, and then you'd have to wait twenty years or more maybe to get an answer that says pretty good you.

They'd have like a revolution since then, or have evolved into something else or whatever. How do you have a conversation?

They'd have like a revolution since then, or have evolved into something else or whatever. How do you have a conversation?

Yeah, you might not even be alive. Right, Like, if we talked, if we were trying to talk to another civilization that's one hundred light years away, it would take two hundred years to get a response, just.

Yeah, you might not even be alive. Right, Like, if we talked, if we were trying to talk to another civilization that's one hundred light years away, it would take two hundred years to get a response, just.

To get a response, and then imagine what that conversation would be like. You know, the first statements of that conversation would be like, huh, what will.

To get a response, and then imagine what that conversation would be like. You know, the first statements of that conversation would be like, huh, what will.

You wait can you hear me?

You wait can you hear me?

What is this thing on? You know that's a thousand years right there?

What is this thing on? You know that's a thousand years right there?

Yeah, just to decode our language too, rite like would it would be kind of awkward. It'd be like talking to my nine year old right like, Hey, can you pick up your shoes? Hey? Can you pick up your shoes? Twenty years later, you'd be like, what.

Yeah, just to decode our language too, rite like would it would be kind of awkward. It'd be like talking to my nine year old right like, Hey, can you pick up your shoes? Hey? Can you pick up your shoes? Twenty years later, you'd be like, what.

It'd be like having any video conferencing meeting, you know, the first ten minutes of every video conferencing meeting between humans who speak the same language, use the same technology. It's still I can't hear you. What what does that? No, this is not working.

It'd be like having any video conferencing meeting, you know, the first ten minutes of every video conferencing meeting between humans who speak the same language, use the same technology. It's still I can't hear you. What what does that? No, this is not working.

See ultimate Nightmare conference call. Wouldn't it?

See ultimate Nightmare conference call. Wouldn't it?

It really would.

It really would.

We would waste two hundred years just to say you're on speakerphone.

We would waste two hundred years just to say you're on speakerphone.

Or you're muted, or sorry I thought I was muted, or hey you're in the bathroom and you're not muted. Right. Oh, although, actually I would like to hear what it does sound like when Alien goes to the bathroom.

Or you're muted, or sorry I thought I was muted, or hey you're in the bathroom and you're not muted. Right. Oh, although, actually I would like to hear what it does sound like when Alien goes to the bathroom.

Oh really, that would be your opening question.

Oh really, that would be your opening question.

No, but if that's if that audio is just delivered to me somehow, Yeah, I would like to hear that. That would be fascinating. What if that's The only thing we ever learned about aliens is that they accidentally but dialed us when they were in the bathroom and we got to hear it.

No, but if that's if that audio is just delivered to me somehow, Yeah, I would like to hear that. That would be fascinating. What if that's The only thing we ever learned about aliens is that they accidentally but dialed us when they were in the bathroom and we got to hear it.

You're assuming they have a butt, or they might only i'd have multiple buds. You don't know.

You're assuming they have a butt, or they might only i'd have multiple buds. You don't know.

So many questions could be answered by that accidental phone call.

So many questions could be answered by that accidental phone call.

Yeah, you might get like two separate calls on your phone, one from each butt.

Yeah, you might get like two separate calls on your phone, one from each butt.

Hey, your left button your right butt are both calling me. I got to go and force maybe I have it. They must have a whole different call waiting system depending on the number of butts they have. But you know, this is a fun topic to explore, But I read a lot of science fiction, and in science fiction they often have this same problem. Like, let's say it's a million years in the future and humans have colonized the galaxy and have a galaxy spanning empire. How do you even govern an empire if it takes a thousand years to send a message from one side of it to the.

Hey, your left button your right butt are both calling me. I got to go and force maybe I have it. They must have a whole different call waiting system depending on the number of butts they have. But you know, this is a fun topic to explore, But I read a lot of science fiction, and in science fiction they often have this same problem. Like, let's say it's a million years in the future and humans have colonized the galaxy and have a galaxy spanning empire. How do you even govern an empire if it takes a thousand years to send a message from one side of it to the.

Other, right, Like, if you think about it. One fact that always blows my mind is that the United States is only like two hundred and fifty years old or less. So imagine having a conversation in between the declaration of Independence and now.

Other, right, Like, if you think about it. One fact that always blows my mind is that the United States is only like two hundred and fifty years old or less. So imagine having a conversation in between the declaration of Independence and now.

It's a whole different country. Absolutely, it's a whole different country. And I think there's a something interesting there. I think something about the size of nations was determined basically by the speed of information transit at the time that you know, nation states came to be. And the reason we don't have globe spanning empires might also be because we didn't have instantaneous communication until fairly recently.

It's a whole different country. Absolutely, it's a whole different country. And I think there's a something interesting there. I think something about the size of nations was determined basically by the speed of information transit at the time that you know, nation states came to be. And the reason we don't have globe spanning empires might also be because we didn't have instantaneous communication until fairly recently.

Oh, I see, like your furthest colony could be like, hey, I am peace out, I'm leaving, and by the time you get the message and say no way, dude.

Oh, I see, like your furthest colony could be like, hey, I am peace out, I'm leaving, and by the time you get the message and say no way, dude.

Through God, tighter coordination between the UK and the American colonies might have prevented the American Revolution, right, England could still be a globe spanning empire. Anyway, That's ridiculous speculation on a topic I have no expertise in.

Through God, tighter coordination between the UK and the American colonies might have prevented the American Revolution, right, England could still be a globe spanning empire. Anyway, That's ridiculous speculation on a topic I have no expertise in.

But that's a different topic. That's Daniel and Jorge Confused History, another production of iHeartRadio.

But that's a different topic. That's Daniel and Jorge Confused History, another production of iHeartRadio.

That's right, But I think this is a really interesting one. And in those books and science fiction novels, they often try to avoid this problem by inventing some way for these people to communicate faster than light they have some clever way, some telephone that communicates instantly from galaxy to galaxy or even inside the galaxies, so that they can talk to their subjects and their political connections and a reasonable.

That's right, But I think this is a really interesting one. And in those books and science fiction novels, they often try to avoid this problem by inventing some way for these people to communicate faster than light they have some clever way, some telephone that communicates instantly from galaxy to galaxy or even inside the galaxies, so that they can talk to their subjects and their political connections and a reasonable.

Time, right, so that each page of the science fiction story doesn't go two hundred years later.

Time, right, so that each page of the science fiction story doesn't go two hundred years later.

Where there's like three hundred blank pages into the next thing.

Where there's like three hundred blank pages into the next thing.

Pohf's great grandnef. You answered the phone, it says, what who's is the phone? Wouldn't that'd be a fun thing to get in the wheel from your grandpa? Like, Hey, I put a call in to some aliens. If they call back, this is what I wanted to know.

Pohf's great grandnef. You answered the phone, it says, what who's is the phone? Wouldn't that'd be a fun thing to get in the wheel from your grandpa? Like, Hey, I put a call in to some aliens. If they call back, this is what I wanted to know.

Here's the conversation tree I started. Yeah, exactly.

Here's the conversation tree I started. Yeah, exactly.

But yeah, it's a big problem with the idea of a connected universe, I think, right, like if you can imagine a galactic empire or you know, just getting to know our neighbors, it would be a problem.

But yeah, it's a big problem with the idea of a connected universe, I think, right, like if you can imagine a galactic empire or you know, just getting to know our neighbors, it would be a problem.

It would be a problem. And in a lot of these science fiction novels they trying to solve this problem by sort of painting over it with a magic phrase. They say, well, you know, maybe scientists in the future have figured out a way to use here I'm doing air quotes quantum entanglement, and that just sort of solves the problem.

It would be a problem. And in a lot of these science fiction novels they trying to solve this problem by sort of painting over it with a magic phrase. They say, well, you know, maybe scientists in the future have figured out a way to use here I'm doing air quotes quantum entanglement, and that just sort of solves the problem.

That's a popular solution in science fiction to this problem. Yes, exactly, quantum entanglement.

That's a popular solution in science fiction to this problem. Yes, exactly, quantum entanglement.

Quantum entanglement sort of solves the problem of faster than light communication.

Quantum entanglement sort of solves the problem of faster than light communication.

All right, So then today we're going to answer the question can we use quantum entanglement to send messages faster than light?

All right, So then today we're going to answer the question can we use quantum entanglement to send messages faster than light?

Because I would love to talk to the aliens more rapidly. I would love to download their physics library and not have it take a billion years. And so I want this to be true. I want us to be able to send messages faster than light using quantum entanglement or anything.

Because I would love to talk to the aliens more rapidly. I would love to download their physics library and not have it take a billion years. And so I want this to be true. I want us to be able to send messages faster than light using quantum entanglement or anything.

Well, I think, like any any phrase in science fiction, just put the word quantum in it and it sounds both magical and plausible.

Well, I think, like any any phrase in science fiction, just put the word quantum in it and it sounds both magical and plausible.

Do you think that's going to be true forever? Like won't that trope? Get tired? Want people to be like, yawn, quantum? The new thing is I don't know what is the new thing?

Do you think that's going to be true forever? Like won't that trope? Get tired? Want people to be like, yawn, quantum? The new thing is I don't know what is the new thing?

Dark matter, dark quantumness.

Dark matter, dark quantumness.

Dark matter? Oh my gosh, you're right. And there is even that novel. Have you read that novel called dark Matter by Blake Crouch?

Dark matter? Oh my gosh, you're right. And there is even that novel. Have you read that novel called dark Matter by Blake Crouch?

No?

No?

I haven't very popular I think was the best seller. It's actually about quantum mechanics, but the title of it is dark matter, which is very confusing, and it has nothing to do with dark matter except I think that dark matter is a sexy buzzword at physics. That they were there, him or his agent or his publishing house. We're trying to latch onto.

I haven't very popular I think was the best seller. It's actually about quantum mechanics, but the title of it is dark matter, which is very confusing, and it has nothing to do with dark matter except I think that dark matter is a sexy buzzword at physics. That they were there, him or his agent or his publishing house. We're trying to latch onto.

Well, there you go. That should be the title of our next book, dark.

Well, there you go. That should be the title of our next book, dark.

Quantum, dark quantum. Yeah, exactly. Maybe we can use dark matter for faster than light communication Quantum after hours, cinemax dark matter.

Quantum, dark quantum. Yeah, exactly. Maybe we can use dark matter for faster than light communication Quantum after hours, cinemax dark matter.

Jeez. Well, anyways, yeah, the idea is like in science fiction, can we actually use quantum, this idea of quantum entanglement to send messages faster than light? And so, as usual, we were wondering if anyone had even heard of quantam entanglement, or how to pronounce it, or whether it could it could even be used to send messages faster than light.

Jeez. Well, anyways, yeah, the idea is like in science fiction, can we actually use quantum, this idea of quantum entanglement to send messages faster than light? And so, as usual, we were wondering if anyone had even heard of quantam entanglement, or how to pronounce it, or whether it could it could even be used to send messages faster than light.

So, as usual, I walked around the campus if you see Irvine, and I was grateful as always that they were willing to answer a random question about a random topic. And so before you hear these answers, think to yourself, do you think quantum entanglement can be used to send messages across the universe faster than the speed of light.

So, as usual, I walked around the campus if you see Irvine, and I was grateful as always that they were willing to answer a random question about a random topic. And so before you hear these answers, think to yourself, do you think quantum entanglement can be used to send messages across the universe faster than the speed of light.

Here's what people had to say. I don't know enough to answer that question. I don't know.

Here's what people had to say. I don't know enough to answer that question. I don't know.

No, I'm not.

No, I'm not.

I don't know, but I hope I can.

I don't know, but I hope I can.

I'm not sorry, No, I'm not.

I'm not sorry, No, I'm not.

I do know what that is?

I do know what that is?

You? Yeah, do you think it can be used to send messages faster than the speed of light?

You? Yeah, do you think it can be used to send messages faster than the speed of light?

That is correct?

That is correct?

Do you think it can?

Do you think it can?

So?

So?

When do you think of those answers? Or hee?

When do you think of those answers? Or hee?

All right, well, I think there are probably pretty common answers. I don't think up until a couple of years ago, I would have known what quantum entanglement was.

All right, well, I think there are probably pretty common answers. I don't think up until a couple of years ago, I would have known what quantum entanglement was.

Yeah, a lot of people had never heard of it.

Yeah, a lot of people had never heard of it.

Though.

Though.

One guy was like, oh, yeah, one hundred percent, that's totally possible. I want to invest in this guy's company.

One guy was like, oh, yeah, one hundred percent, that's totally possible. I want to invest in this guy's company.

This Wow, what does he know that we don't know?

This Wow, what does he know that we don't know?

I don't know. I didn't spend the time to dig into it with him.

I don't know. I didn't spend the time to dig into it with him.

Was he an alien? Possibly?

Was he an alien? Possibly?

Probably? Oh my gosh, I met an alien. I didn't even realize it. I'll just rewind back in time. Remember what that person looked like.

Probably? Oh my gosh, I met an alien. I didn't even realize it. I'll just rewind back in time. Remember what that person looked like.

If you can rewind back in time, Daniel, that's what do you know that I.

If you can rewind back in time, Daniel, that's what do you know that I.

Just used my quantum tangle particles right? That solves every science fiction problem.

Just used my quantum tangle particles right? That solves every science fiction problem.

Dark quantum phone, dark.

Dark quantum phone, dark.

Quantum foam perfect. I think that is the perfect blend of buzzwords right there. That solves any problem.

Quantum foam perfect. I think that is the perfect blend of buzzwords right there. That solves any problem.

There you go.

There you go.

I'm gonna suggest that to my students next time they have research problem. Have you tried dark quantum foam.

I'm gonna suggest that to my students next time they have research problem. Have you tried dark quantum foam.

Many people haven't even heard of quantum entanglement, much less the idea of using it to talk over long distances.

Many people haven't even heard of quantum entanglement, much less the idea of using it to talk over long distances.

It's a topic that's actually decades old, but I think only recently has it entered any sort of the edges of the cultural zeitgeist.

It's a topic that's actually decades old, but I think only recently has it entered any sort of the edges of the cultural zeitgeist.

Well, I think I remember a couple of year or two ago there was a big news item saying that scientists had finally teleported something and they used quantum entanglement it.

Well, I think I remember a couple of year or two ago there was a big news item saying that scientists had finally teleported something and they used quantum entanglement it.

Yeah, there was some very misleading science headlines about how scientists teleported something into space. But yeah, they hadn't.

Yeah, there was some very misleading science headlines about how scientists teleported something into space. But yeah, they hadn't.

Actually it's leading headlines.

Actually it's leading headlines.

What misleading science headlines? Yeah, No, that.

What misleading science headlines? Yeah, No, that.

Was wanted you to click on it. That's weird.

Was wanted you to click on it. That's weird.

Yeah, they had used quantum entanglement. And we did a whole episode actually about teleportation, whether it's possible. And there is one aspect of teleportation which is possible, which is teleporting a quantum state. That is saying, here, we have some particles and a quantum arrangement over here. Can we make other particles not the same particles, other particles had the same state over there. It's sort of like, uh, you know, copying something. It's like emailing something to somebody else, but doing but emailing a quantum state. And to do that you do need to have quantum entanglement. Yes, quantum faxing. That is not a phrase anybody has ever said out loud before.

Yeah, they had used quantum entanglement. And we did a whole episode actually about teleportation, whether it's possible. And there is one aspect of teleportation which is possible, which is teleporting a quantum state. That is saying, here, we have some particles and a quantum arrangement over here. Can we make other particles not the same particles, other particles had the same state over there. It's sort of like, uh, you know, copying something. It's like emailing something to somebody else, but doing but emailing a quantum state. And to do that you do need to have quantum entanglement. Yes, quantum faxing. That is not a phrase anybody has ever said out loud before.

Right, Can I lay my stake on it?

Right, Can I lay my stake on it?

Yes? Yeah, they didn't actually move anything to space. People think when they hear teleportation that you've disappeared some matter somewhere and reappeared it somewhere else. That's the common understanding of teleportation, which is why the headlines for that article were so misleading. But they did use quantum entanglement in that experiment. Quantum entanglement is a real thing. It can be used to do some interesting science. Right. It can be used to quantum facts things, for example, which is fascinating and useful, but not faster than the speed of light in that case.

Yes? Yeah, they didn't actually move anything to space. People think when they hear teleportation that you've disappeared some matter somewhere and reappeared it somewhere else. That's the common understanding of teleportation, which is why the headlines for that article were so misleading. But they did use quantum entanglement in that experiment. Quantum entanglement is a real thing. It can be used to do some interesting science. Right. It can be used to quantum facts things, for example, which is fascinating and useful, but not faster than the speed of light in that case.

But yeah, I think I think that would be a more better name for it, quantum facxing, because it's not really teleporting. It's more like faxing.

But yeah, I think I think that would be a more better name for it, quantum facxing, because it's not really teleporting. It's more like faxing.

Yes, exactly, that is quantum faxing.

Yes, exactly, that is quantum faxing.

And is it sort of related to this idea of using it to communicate faster than light or is that totally different than quantum teleportation?

And is it sort of related to this idea of using it to communicate faster than light or is that totally different than quantum teleportation?

No, it's different. I mean the idea of quantum entanglement is to have two things that are far apart, but they have some connection to each other, and can you use that to send some information? And you can use it to send some information, but the question is can you use it to send information faster than the speed of light? But maybe before we dig into that, we should talk about what quantum entanglement is, so everybody has a clear sense for what that means.

No, it's different. I mean the idea of quantum entanglement is to have two things that are far apart, but they have some connection to each other, and can you use that to send some information? And you can use it to send some information, but the question is can you use it to send information faster than the speed of light? But maybe before we dig into that, we should talk about what quantum entanglement is, so everybody has a clear sense for what that means.

Yeah, let's talk about quantum entanglement. So what is quantum entanglement? I feel like I know the word quantum sort of which means magic, and entanglement means that two things are kind of like intertwined or you know, kind of like one of them depends on the other.

Yeah, let's talk about quantum entanglement. So what is quantum entanglement? I feel like I know the word quantum sort of which means magic, and entanglement means that two things are kind of like intertwined or you know, kind of like one of them depends on the other.

Yeah, that's exactly what it is. Entanglement means that there's sort of a constraint on the pair. So I think it's simplest if you think about just two particles. Now it can apply to other things, and just particles that can apply to quantum fields or quantum systems. But just to have a visual thing to hang our our mental hats on, let's talk about, for example, two electrons. And electrons we know have these weird quantum states, like they can be spin up or they can be spinned down. And for an individual electron, before you've looked at it, it could be either spin up or down, and sort of like the short Inger's cat and box. Until you ask the electron, are you spin up or down? It's sort of both. It's not determined it's fifty to fifty one or the.

Yeah, that's exactly what it is. Entanglement means that there's sort of a constraint on the pair. So I think it's simplest if you think about just two particles. Now it can apply to other things, and just particles that can apply to quantum fields or quantum systems. But just to have a visual thing to hang our our mental hats on, let's talk about, for example, two electrons. And electrons we know have these weird quantum states, like they can be spin up or they can be spinned down. And for an individual electron, before you've looked at it, it could be either spin up or down, and sort of like the short Inger's cat and box. Until you ask the electron, are you spin up or down? It's sort of both. It's not determined it's fifty to fifty one or the.

Other until you like poke it right, until you ask the electron whether it's spinning over them right.

Other until you like poke it right, until you ask the electron whether it's spinning over them right.

And we did a whole episode on quantum spin. How you can measure an electron spin. You pass it through a magnet and either goes left or goes right, and that's how you're measuring it. You require it to make a decision about whether it's up or down so that it can interact with an experiment you've built in a certain way, and that's useful for thinking about an individual electron. A quantum entanglement is about pairs of electrons because sometimes you can arrange these electrons in a special way so that they're not independent. They have a constraint on them, like their spins have to be opposite. For example, if one is up, the other one has to be down.

And we did a whole episode on quantum spin. How you can measure an electron spin. You pass it through a magnet and either goes left or goes right, and that's how you're measuring it. You require it to make a decision about whether it's up or down so that it can interact with an experiment you've built in a certain way, and that's useful for thinking about an individual electron. A quantum entanglement is about pairs of electrons because sometimes you can arrange these electrons in a special way so that they're not independent. They have a constraint on them, like their spins have to be opposite. For example, if one is up, the other one has to be down.

Like you put a rule that says that they're not totally independent. Yeah, Like if you throw two dies, they can be whatever they want to be each one, But if you put a constraint on them, saying they both have to add up to seven, then that's a constrain between two things.

Like you put a rule that says that they're not totally independent. Yeah, Like if you throw two dies, they can be whatever they want to be each one, But if you put a constraint on them, saying they both have to add up to seven, then that's a constrain between two things.

Exactly, because quantum mechanics has a lot of weirdness and a lot of fuzziness, But there are some rules even quantum mechanics can't break, like conservation of momentum and spin is a kind of momentum. And so if these electrons, for example, came from another particle, say a photon generated an electron and a positron. That photon has an overall spin zero, for example, then the electron, if one of them is spin up, the other one has to be spinned down. In order to conserve overall momentum, their spins have to add up to zero, which is the same original amount of spin that the photon had. So that's how you do it physically. That's how you apply a constraint to two electrons to say, you can't both be up and you can't both be down. If one of you is up, the other one has to be down. So you maintain your compliance with this other law of physics, right, And.

Exactly, because quantum mechanics has a lot of weirdness and a lot of fuzziness, But there are some rules even quantum mechanics can't break, like conservation of momentum and spin is a kind of momentum. And so if these electrons, for example, came from another particle, say a photon generated an electron and a positron. That photon has an overall spin zero, for example, then the electron, if one of them is spin up, the other one has to be spinned down. In order to conserve overall momentum, their spins have to add up to zero, which is the same original amount of spin that the photon had. So that's how you do it physically. That's how you apply a constraint to two electrons to say, you can't both be up and you can't both be down. If one of you is up, the other one has to be down. So you maintain your compliance with this other law of physics, right, And.

You can set that rule to whatever you want to be. Like, you could also say they both have to be up, or they both have to be down, or they can't both be the same thing. It's just kind of like a rule, right.

You can set that rule to whatever you want to be. Like, you could also say they both have to be up, or they both have to be down, or they can't both be the same thing. It's just kind of like a rule, right.

Yeah, if your photon has spin one in a certain direction, then you know that both electrons have to be spin up. And if it has spin minus one, which is the same as beIN one in the other direction, then yeah, the same thing applies. But it's most interesting when this constraint adds up to zero, because then each electron can be up or down, and it's the combination of the two that has the constraint, not the individual one. So each one is free to be up or down. But if as soon as you know that one is up, the other one has to be down.

Yeah, if your photon has spin one in a certain direction, then you know that both electrons have to be spin up. And if it has spin minus one, which is the same as beIN one in the other direction, then yeah, the same thing applies. But it's most interesting when this constraint adds up to zero, because then each electron can be up or down, and it's the combination of the two that has the constraint, not the individual one. So each one is free to be up or down. But if as soon as you know that one is up, the other one has to be down.

Okay, So that's the basic idea of entanglement. It's like two particles that have some kind of they're both quantum, so they're both weird and fuzzy, but there's some sort of constraint between them, some sort of rule that says that when you open those two electrons, they need to follow certain rules.

Okay, So that's the basic idea of entanglement. It's like two particles that have some kind of they're both quantum, so they're both weird and fuzzy, but there's some sort of constraint between them, some sort of rule that says that when you open those two electrons, they need to follow certain rules.

That's right, and the magic there is what happens if you open just one electron. See electron A and electron B. Say you open the box for electron A, you interact with it, you measure it, spin it's spin up. Now you know something about electron B. Right, you've measured something about electron A and learn something about electron B. That constraint allows you to extrapolate your knowledge about the first electron onto the second WORL. That's the magic, because the two have this constraint, and that happens sort of instantaneously. As soon as you measure it on one, you know something about the other one, even if in the meantime you've taken that other electron and moved it a light year away.

That's right, and the magic there is what happens if you open just one electron. See electron A and electron B. Say you open the box for electron A, you interact with it, you measure it, spin it's spin up. Now you know something about electron B. Right, you've measured something about electron A and learn something about electron B. That constraint allows you to extrapolate your knowledge about the first electron onto the second WORL. That's the magic, because the two have this constraint, and that happens sort of instantaneously. As soon as you measure it on one, you know something about the other one, even if in the meantime you've taken that other electron and moved it a light year away.

So that's where the communication part comes in.

So that's where the communication part comes in.

Right, That's where the sort of magic faster than light tempting thing comes in. You take these two electrons, they're quantum entangled. You move them really far apart without breaking the entanglement somehow, and then when you measure something about one electron, you learn something about something really really far away, and you've learned something faster than light can travel.

Right, That's where the sort of magic faster than light tempting thing comes in. You take these two electrons, they're quantum entangled. You move them really far apart without breaking the entanglement somehow, and then when you measure something about one electron, you learn something about something really really far away, and you've learned something faster than light can travel.

All right, Well, let's get into the details here a little bit more, and how this was actually one of Einstein's ideas, right.

All right, Well, let's get into the details here a little bit more, and how this was actually one of Einstein's ideas, right.

It was.

It was.

It was sort of Einstein's big backfire.

It was sort of Einstein's big backfire.

So let's get into it. But first, let's take a quick break.

So let's get into it. But first, let's take a quick break.

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All right, we're talking about quantum entanglement and how we could use that to talk to aliens right, faster than micros.

All right, we're talking about quantum entanglement and how we could use that to talk to aliens right, faster than micros.

That's right. We're hoping they're aliens, and we're hoping we could develop this technology based on quantum tanglement to send the messages that aren't accidental toilet butt dials.

That's right. We're hoping they're aliens, and we're hoping we could develop this technology based on quantum tanglement to send the messages that aren't accidental toilet butt dials.

Right using my quantum facts, which I just invented ten minutes ago. Okay, so let me see if I got this straight. Idea, Betwind. Quantum entanglement is that you take two electrons or two particles that are quant to them, and you mix them up so that there's some kind of rule between them.

Right using my quantum facts, which I just invented ten minutes ago. Okay, so let me see if I got this straight. Idea, Betwind. Quantum entanglement is that you take two electrons or two particles that are quant to them, and you mix them up so that there's some kind of rule between them.

Mm hmmm.

Mm hmmm.

So that then if you separate them and you open one of them, you know something about the other, even if it's really far away.

So that then if you separate them and you open one of them, you know something about the other, even if it's really far away.

Precisely, you've learned something about something far away faster than light could get there. If you want to know what is the state of electron B, rather than going there and measuring and coming back, you can do it instantaneously by measuring electron A, and that tells you something about what's happening far away. And normally in this universe, to learn something about an object that's really far away takes time. If you want to know what's happening in the star a light year away, you need to wait a year for that light to get here. So this seems like a tempting way to learn things about things that are far away, and maybe even to send information. That's sort of the idea.

Precisely, you've learned something about something far away faster than light could get there. If you want to know what is the state of electron B, rather than going there and measuring and coming back, you can do it instantaneously by measuring electron A, and that tells you something about what's happening far away. And normally in this universe, to learn something about an object that's really far away takes time. If you want to know what's happening in the star a light year away, you need to wait a year for that light to get here. So this seems like a tempting way to learn things about things that are far away, and maybe even to send information. That's sort of the idea.

It's being the picture a little bit maybe. Like, so I take two electrons, and let's say I make the rule that when I make the electrons, I make the rule that they both had to be the same spin.

It's being the picture a little bit maybe. Like, so I take two electrons, and let's say I make the rule that when I make the electrons, I make the rule that they both had to be the same spin.

Like.

Like.

That's a possible rule, right, that.

That's a possible rule, right, that.

Is a possible rule. Yes, if your photon has spinned one, then the electrons which have spinned half each could be both having a point in the same direction to make that original spin one.

Is a possible rule. Yes, if your photon has spinned one, then the electrons which have spinned half each could be both having a point in the same direction to make that original spin one.

Yes, So I entangle these two electrons, and then I send one of them to another star roxim Centauri. Yeah, and I wait a while for it to get there. It gets there, and now I open my electron the one I kept, and I see that it's pointing up. You're saying, instantaneously, without having to wait to check on the other electron, I know that the other electron out there is also pointing up.

Yes, So I entangle these two electrons, and then I send one of them to another star roxim Centauri. Yeah, and I wait a while for it to get there. It gets there, and now I open my electron the one I kept, and I see that it's pointing up. You're saying, instantaneously, without having to wait to check on the other electron, I know that the other electron out there is also pointing up.

Precisely, you now officially understand quantum entanglement. This is the day forever after which you are an expert in quantum entanglement.

Precisely, you now officially understand quantum entanglement. This is the day forever after which you are an expert in quantum entanglement.

Congratulations, right, But I guess what I don't know is how you can use that for communication. I mean, I feel like I just sent you a package that I kind of already knew what was in it, and before you open it, I know what's already in it, but I'm the one who sent it, So I'm not sure how that helps us communicate.

Congratulations, right, But I guess what I don't know is how you can use that for communication. I mean, I feel like I just sent you a package that I kind of already knew what was in it, and before you open it, I know what's already in it, but I'm the one who sent it, So I'm not sure how that helps us communicate.

That is the rub right, that's exactly the issue. But you don't exactly know what's in it, right. I think in the case where the photon has spined zero and so the electrons have to be opposite, you don't know until you open it which electron you have. Do you have the one that's spin up or do you have the one that's spin down? And so you have learned something about something that's really far away. Before you measure your close by electron, it could be up or down, and the far away electron could also be up or down. It's not determined yet. There's still some randomness. But when you measure the spin of the close by electron, then you instantly know the spin of the far away electron instantly. The other way to get that information is to let the people who have the faraway electron measure it spin and then tell you. But that would take time for them to send you that information. So this is like a way to instantly know information that is far away. Now that's not the same as communication, which requires controlling information. And this is the part that science fiction novels never get into. How do you use quantum entanglement to and end information faster than light? They just sort of dot dot dot from quantum entanglement to instantaneous communication. They never get into it.

That is the rub right, that's exactly the issue. But you don't exactly know what's in it, right. I think in the case where the photon has spined zero and so the electrons have to be opposite, you don't know until you open it which electron you have. Do you have the one that's spin up or do you have the one that's spin down? And so you have learned something about something that's really far away. Before you measure your close by electron, it could be up or down, and the far away electron could also be up or down. It's not determined yet. There's still some randomness. But when you measure the spin of the close by electron, then you instantly know the spin of the far away electron instantly. The other way to get that information is to let the people who have the faraway electron measure it spin and then tell you. But that would take time for them to send you that information. So this is like a way to instantly know information that is far away. Now that's not the same as communication, which requires controlling information. And this is the part that science fiction novels never get into. How do you use quantum entanglement to and end information faster than light? They just sort of dot dot dot from quantum entanglement to instantaneous communication. They never get into it.

Nobody actually knows. Nobody has worked it out.

Nobody actually knows. Nobody has worked it out.

Nobody has worked it out. I mean people have thought about it. And you know, this thought experiment came from Einstein because, as you said before, Einstein was trying to show the quantum mechanics was ridiculous. Einstein was trying to prove that this new field of quantum mechanics makes no sense. So he actually came up with this thought experiment, like, could you do this in the scenario you're proposing in the quantum mechanics universe? If that was real, then you could do this absurd thing like knowing something about something really far away. And so he proposed this in a paper and he said, look at this absurd outcome of your predictions of quantum mechanics. Clearly you must reject this whole idea.

Nobody has worked it out. I mean people have thought about it. And you know, this thought experiment came from Einstein because, as you said before, Einstein was trying to show the quantum mechanics was ridiculous. Einstein was trying to prove that this new field of quantum mechanics makes no sense. So he actually came up with this thought experiment, like, could you do this in the scenario you're proposing in the quantum mechanics universe? If that was real, then you could do this absurd thing like knowing something about something really far away. And so he proposed this in a paper and he said, look at this absurd outcome of your predictions of quantum mechanics. Clearly you must reject this whole idea.

Instead, people were like, huh, I could write a science fiction story about that.

Instead, people were like, huh, I could write a science fiction story about that.

No.

No.

Instead people were like, that's a cool experiment. Let's go do it. And they did it. And it turns out that the quantum mechanics predictions, absurd as they were, were correct. That that's exactly what happens.

Instead people were like, that's a cool experiment. Let's go do it. And they did it. And it turns out that the quantum mechanics predictions, absurd as they were, were correct. That that's exactly what happens.

Would they prove that if you take to electrons, entangle them, and then separate them, they're still entangled.

Would they prove that if you take to electrons, entangle them, and then separate them, they're still entangled.

Is that the experiment they're still entangled, and that if you measure the first one, the second one instantly collapses to being the opposite of the first one.

Is that the experiment they're still entangled, and that if you measure the first one, the second one instantly collapses to being the opposite of the first one.

It collapses to you, to me, but not to the person who's holding it out there.

It collapses to you, to me, but not to the person who's holding it out there.

Yeah, if you measure electron A, right, then electron B, which can be really far away, it can be faster, it can be far away, then light can travel in the time they can they measure it. Then they measure that electron B also collapses at the same moment that electron A collapses. That if they ask electron air you spin up or spin down, then electron B goes from being fifty percent spin up fifty percent spin down, to being either one or the other, being the opposite of electron a. So they've shown that this happens, that making a measurement in one location changes the physics of the universe somewhere far away, and it changes that the physics of the universe faster than you could send information via light. It's not like something is happening in electron a and its secretly sends a message to be quick. I'm up, so you have to be down. They've separated these particles far enough away, like kilometers now kilometers and kilometers, so there's no way for light to sneak that information.

Yeah, if you measure electron A, right, then electron B, which can be really far away, it can be faster, it can be far away, then light can travel in the time they can they measure it. Then they measure that electron B also collapses at the same moment that electron A collapses. That if they ask electron air you spin up or spin down, then electron B goes from being fifty percent spin up fifty percent spin down, to being either one or the other, being the opposite of electron a. So they've shown that this happens, that making a measurement in one location changes the physics of the universe somewhere far away, and it changes that the physics of the universe faster than you could send information via light. It's not like something is happening in electron a and its secretly sends a message to be quick. I'm up, so you have to be down. They've separated these particles far enough away, like kilometers now kilometers and kilometers, so there's no way for light to sneak that information.

But what do you mean it collapses in the other end, Like, but they haven't opened it. You're saying inside the box it's in, it's technically collapsed. Or are you saying that when they whenever they open that other box out there, they're going to find that it's the It follows the rule.

But what do you mean it collapses in the other end, Like, but they haven't opened it. You're saying inside the box it's in, it's technically collapsed. Or are you saying that when they whenever they open that other box out there, they're going to find that it's the It follows the rule.

They do open the box, and it follows the rule. Yeah.

They do open the box, and it follows the rule. Yeah.

Like, let's say I put two I take two electrons, entangle them. Let's say I make the rule that they both have to be spinning the same direction.

Like, let's say I put two I take two electrons, entangle them. Let's say I make the rule that they both have to be spinning the same direction.

I think it's clearest when they have to be spinning the opposite directions.

I think it's clearest when they have to be spinning the opposite directions.

Okay, so let's make the rule that they have to be spinning the opposite direction. Okay, I entangle them. I keep one in my box, and I send the other one to you in Alpha Centaury in a in a box.

Okay, so let's make the rule that they have to be spinning the opposite direction. Okay, I entangle them. I keep one in my box, and I send the other one to you in Alpha Centaury in a in a box.

Wait, I'm in Alpha Centaury. I have to go to Alpha Centauri and I get to good Alpha Centauri.

Wait, I'm in Alpha Centaury. I have to go to Alpha Centauri and I get to good Alpha Centauri.

Okay, aweso, I thought you already were there, But.

Okay, aweso, I thought you already were there, But.

All right, I'm an Alpha Centauri with the other box.

All right, I'm an Alpha Centauri with the other box.

Okay, yeah, I sent you the B electron. I kept the A electron. I sent you the B electron, and they're both entangled. And now you're saying, if I open my A electron and I see that it's pointing up, I know that B is pointing down, but you don't know that B is pointing down to you.

Okay, yeah, I sent you the B electron. I kept the A electron. I sent you the B electron, and they're both entangled. And now you're saying, if I open my A electron and I see that it's pointing up, I know that B is pointing down, but you don't know that B is pointing down to you.

That's right. But I measure it and it points down.

That's right. But I measure it and it points down.

Right when you measure it. But up to the point that you measure it, you don't know if it's pointing up and down.

Right when you measure it. But up to the point that you measure it, you don't know if it's pointing up and down.

That's right, But how does how do they talk to each other? How do they know that one can point up and the other one can point down. They're separated, all right. Say we make our measurements at the same moment or within a billi second of each other. Okay, we are separated by a light year. There's no time for electron A to tell electron B what decision it has made.

That's right, But how does how do they talk to each other? How do they know that one can point up and the other one can point down. They're separated, all right. Say we make our measurements at the same moment or within a billi second of each other. Okay, we are separated by a light year. There's no time for electron A to tell electron B what decision it has made.

Oh, I see what you're saying. You're saying that my electron, my A electron the one I kept could be either one.

Oh, I see what you're saying. You're saying that my electron, my A electron the one I kept could be either one.

It could be either one. Yes.

It could be either one. Yes.

If I do experiment a lot, sometimes will be up, sometimes they'll be down. Yes, but the ones that it's up, then yours will be down, and the ones that it's down, yours will be up.

If I do experiment a lot, sometimes will be up, sometimes they'll be down. Yes, but the ones that it's up, then yours will be down, and the ones that it's down, yours will be up.

Precisely, and before you measure any of the particles, both could be up or down. They have a fifty percent chance of being up and a fifty percent chance of being down. When you measure electron A to be up, then electron B a light year way has to instantly change from having even odds of being up or down to just being down. It has to because electron A was up. But how does it know that electron A was up. There's no way for that information to get to electron B in time. Electron A could have been down, forcing B to up electron A spin could have been down, forcing B to be spin up. Remember that both of them are undetermined until you measure one of them, and then suddenly both are determined. This is like you take two prisoners and you isolate them so they don't get to talk about their story, and you ask one, you know, who robbed the bank, and you ask the other one who robbed the bank, and their stories always agree.

Precisely, and before you measure any of the particles, both could be up or down. They have a fifty percent chance of being up and a fifty percent chance of being down. When you measure electron A to be up, then electron B a light year way has to instantly change from having even odds of being up or down to just being down. It has to because electron A was up. But how does it know that electron A was up. There's no way for that information to get to electron B in time. Electron A could have been down, forcing B to up electron A spin could have been down, forcing B to be spin up. Remember that both of them are undetermined until you measure one of them, and then suddenly both are determined. This is like you take two prisoners and you isolate them so they don't get to talk about their story, and you ask one, you know, who robbed the bank, and you ask the other one who robbed the bank, and their stories always agree.

Right, even though they could have lied, either of them, Either of them could have lied.

Right, even though they could have lied, either of them, Either of them could have lied.

Yeah, exactly, either one.

Yeah, exactly, either one.

Could have lied. Either both lie, or they both not tell the truth, but some other in sync.

Could have lied. Either both lie, or they both not tell the truth, but some other in sync.

And it's physically impossible for them to communicate because they are too far apart. When they first did these experiments, they try to isolate the things, but they weren't actually really that far apart. It's hard to get two quantum entangled particles actually far apart. But now they've done it. They've quantum entangled particles between the surface of the Earth and things on satellites, for example. That's what that article was about, what we were talking about earlier. They quantum entangled physics on the Earth and physics in a satellite.

And it's physically impossible for them to communicate because they are too far apart. When they first did these experiments, they try to isolate the things, but they weren't actually really that far apart. It's hard to get two quantum entangled particles actually far apart. But now they've done it. They've quantum entangled particles between the surface of the Earth and things on satellites, for example. That's what that article was about, what we were talking about earlier. They quantum entangled physics on the Earth and physics in a satellite.

Okay, so that's the spooky thing. It's like someow the two prisoners have their stories in sync. You know, the two White House officials are somehow saying the same thing about the text messages. But they never talk to each other, and they couldn't possibly have coordinated.

Okay, so that's the spooky thing. It's like someow the two prisoners have their stories in sync. You know, the two White House officials are somehow saying the same thing about the text messages. But they never talk to each other, and they couldn't possibly have coordinated.

They couldn't. It's physically impossible for them to coordinate. It's somehow when electron A collapses to up, electron B collapses to down, or the other way around.

They couldn't. It's physically impossible for them to coordinate. It's somehow when electron A collapses to up, electron B collapses to down, or the other way around.

How do I know they didn't coordinate before I separated them.

How do I know they didn't coordinate before I separated them.

Yes, that is one of the deepest questions about particle physics and quantum mechanics is that is there a hidden variable. Maybe A wasn't actually both up and down. Maybe there's some hidden variable there, something that determines it forces A to be up, and so of course B is down. It's no surprise you know that you have half at the cake the other one. It's the other half of the cake, because it's been those halves the entire time. While they were traveling to be farther away. That's a really.

Yes, that is one of the deepest questions about particle physics and quantum mechanics is that is there a hidden variable. Maybe A wasn't actually both up and down. Maybe there's some hidden variable there, something that determines it forces A to be up, and so of course B is down. It's no surprise you know that you have half at the cake the other one. It's the other half of the cake, because it's been those halves the entire time. While they were traveling to be farther away. That's a really.

Yeah, like they decided like, hey, I'll be down, okay, that means you have to be up, and then they separated. You were saying, that's not what's happening.

Yeah, like they decided like, hey, I'll be down, okay, that means you have to be up, and then they separated. You were saying, that's not what's happening.

We know that's not what's happening the explanation for that. And I know people out there who are desperately curious about quantum mechanics and skeptical of this want to know precisely the answer to that question, because when I was learning quantum mechanics, that's the thing I was wondering about. How do you know there isn't some like hidden variable, something we just haven't measured, some property the electron which determines or forces one to be up and the other one to be down. Now, the answer is a bit frustrating. The answer is not a smoking gun. It's a much more subtle experiment. It's called and it's invented by a guy named Bell, and it's about measuring the correlation between A and B. You can't prove that there's no hidden variable for one experiment, but if you do this over and over again and you sort of rotate the spin of the electrons, you can prove that there is no local hidden variable. It's really one of the most beautiful and subtle pieces of physics I've ever learned. So to show that there's no way for the two electrons to have been determined in advance which one would be up and which one would be down. That's what we technically call the no local hidden variable. What Bell did was use a second weird aspect of quantum mechanics to help pin down this first weird aspect. On the episode about spin, remember we talked about how you can't know the spin in two directions at the same time. It's just like how you can't know a particle's momentum and positioned at the same time because of the uncertainty principle. In the same way, measuring the spin in one direction like eh will re randomize the spin in the other directions like why. So Bell used this to his advantage to show that the spin really is randomized before it's measured. His experiment says, you should separate the particles, but then measure the spin in other directions, not the one that you have this quantum mechanical entanglement constraint on, and he showed that if there is a local hidden variable, it will affect not just the constraint direction, but also the spins you measure in other directions. If there isn't a local hidden variable, if the electrons really are undetermined until you measure them, then you will not affect the randomness in the other directions. So he was able to come up with an experiment that gives different predictions if there's randomness and if there's local hidden variables. And then they did the experiment and boom, it showed that there really is randomness. But we should dig into it further on a whole separate podcast episode because it's really fascinating. They have proven that there is no local bit of information that could be hiding inside those boxes to determine that one electron actually is up and the other the other one actually is down. We know that they really is uncertainty there, that the electron could really be up or down when you've entangled them and when you've separated them, and that that collapses the moment you measure one of them, even if they're really far apart.