If you love iPhone, you'll love Apple Card. It's the credit card designed for iPhone. It gives you unlimited daily cash back that can earn four point four zero percent annual percentage yield. When you open a high Yield Savings account through Apple Card, apply for Applecard in the wallet app subject to credit approval. Savings is available to Apple Card owners subject to eligibility. Apple Card and Savings by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch, Member FDIC, terms and more at applecard dot Com. When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth, you're probably not thinking about the environmental impact. But the people in the dairy industry are. That's why they're working hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste, conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. How is US Dairy tackling greenhouse gases? Many farms use anaerobic digesters to turn the methane from manure into renewable energy that can power farms, towns, and electric cars. Visit us dairy dot COM's Last Sustainability to learn more.

If you love iPhone, you'll love Apple Card. It's the credit card designed for iPhone. It gives you unlimited daily cash back that can earn four point four zero percent annual percentage yield. When you open a high Yield Savings account through Apple Card, apply for Applecard in the wallet app subject to credit approval. Savings is available to Apple Card owners subject to eligibility. Apple Card and Savings by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch, Member FDIC, terms and more at applecard dot Com. When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth, you're probably not thinking about the environmental impact. But the people in the dairy industry are. That's why they're working hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste, conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. How is US Dairy tackling greenhouse gases? Many farms use anaerobic digesters to turn the methane from manure into renewable energy that can power farms, towns, and electric cars. Visit us dairy dot COM's Last Sustainability to learn more.

What's Good It's Calling and Eating Walbroke is back for season three, brought to you by the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio. We're serving up some real stories and life lessons from people like Van Lathan, DC, Young Fly, Phone Thugs and Harmony and many moore. They're sharing the dishes that got them through their struggles and the wisdom they gained along the way. We're cooking up something special, So tune in every Thursday. Listen to Eating Wallbroke on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio, app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your.

What's Good It's Calling and Eating Walbroke is back for season three, brought to you by the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio. We're serving up some real stories and life lessons from people like Van Lathan, DC, Young Fly, Phone Thugs and Harmony and many moore. They're sharing the dishes that got them through their struggles and the wisdom they gained along the way. We're cooking up something special, So tune in every Thursday. Listen to Eating Wallbroke on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio, app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your.

Podcasts presented by State Farm like a good neighbor. State Farm is there, hey, coor Hey, I want to play a new game I invented. It's a free association particle physics game.

Podcasts presented by State Farm like a good neighbor. State Farm is there, hey, coor Hey, I want to play a new game I invented. It's a free association particle physics game.

Oh you might qualify go need a physics degree.

Oh you might qualify go need a physics degree.

No, no, you might actually be the most qualified person ever.

No, no, you might actually be the most qualified person ever.

Really, that's the first time I hear those words ever. But I'm how does it work?

Really, that's the first time I hear those words ever. But I'm how does it work?

All right? It goes like this, I say a particle, and then you describe your mental image. You've been doing this for a while, translating science into visual art, and so I'm curious of what goes on in the mind of a comic when I say the name of a particle.

All right? It goes like this, I say a particle, and then you describe your mental image. You've been doing this for a while, translating science into visual art, and so I'm curious of what goes on in the mind of a comic when I say the name of a particle.

But all right, I'm game hit hit me.

But all right, I'm game hit hit me.

Okay, all right, Proton.

Okay, all right, Proton.

Proton, I see the color blue, like a little little sphere that has a soft blue glow.

Proton, I see the color blue, like a little little sphere that has a soft blue glow.

All right, well, then let's go to the other side. What about electron electron?

All right, well, then let's go to the other side. What about electron electron?

I see something kind of jumpy, kind of electric like it has little like electricity bolts coming out of it.

I see something kind of jumpy, kind of electric like it has little like electricity bolts coming out of it.

All right, What about the squiggly on?

All right, What about the squiggly on?

Okay, I see I see Brian green somehow and being kind of squiggly and shaky. All right, well, let me try you then, Daniel. If I say the word quark, what do you see, You're like grant money.

Okay, I see I see Brian green somehow and being kind of squiggly and shaky. All right, well, let me try you then, Daniel. If I say the word quark, what do you see, You're like grant money.

If you say the word quark, I think of a bowl filled with glue and these little particles swimming around inside.

If you say the word quark, I think of a bowl filled with glue and these little particles swimming around inside.

Of it like an edible.

Of it like an edible.

Yeah, that's my lunch, basically a bowl of glue. No, because you know, the quarks are inside of proton. They're held together by this seeding mass of gluons, this frothing foam of gluons, and so I can't think of quarks except being surrounded by gluons.

Yeah, that's my lunch, basically a bowl of glue. No, because you know, the quarks are inside of proton. They're held together by this seeding mass of gluons, this frothing foam of gluons, and so I can't think of quarks except being surrounded by gluons.

Hi'm hoor Am, a cartoonists and the creator of PhD comics.

Hi'm hoor Am, a cartoonists and the creator of PhD comics.

Hi I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist, and I have no idea how to draw a particle.

Hi I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist, and I have no idea how to draw a particle.

And speaking of not having no idea, we are the co authors of the book We Have No Idea, A Guide to the Unknown Universe, and the hosts of this podcast you're listening to, Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio.

And speaking of not having no idea, we are the co authors of the book We Have No Idea, A Guide to the Unknown Universe, and the hosts of this podcast you're listening to, Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio.

That's right, our podcast in which we zoom around the universe and find interesting, weird stuff to think about, to imagine and try to bring clear images into your mind a very strange, weird stuff that's happening out there.

That's right, our podcast in which we zoom around the universe and find interesting, weird stuff to think about, to imagine and try to bring clear images into your mind a very strange, weird stuff that's happening out there.

Yeah, we talk about not just seeing weird stuff, but we wonder how can we see all this weird stuff that's out there in the universe.

Yeah, we talk about not just seeing weird stuff, but we wonder how can we see all this weird stuff that's out there in the universe.

That's right, because part of understanding the universe is building in your mind sort of a mental model, like what's going on in the center of the sun, how does this really work? And where is the dark matter? Every time you want to understand something, in some sense, you're building sort of a mental model that you want to look at.

That's right, because part of understanding the universe is building in your mind sort of a mental model, like what's going on in the center of the sun, how does this really work? And where is the dark matter? Every time you want to understand something, in some sense, you're building sort of a mental model that you want to look at.

And so where do those mental models come from? And how do we form these images in our heads? And how do we know they're true?

And so where do those mental models come from? And how do we form these images in our heads? And how do we know they're true?

Right?

Right?

Like, how do we know that what we imagine is happening is actually happening.

Like, how do we know that what we imagine is happening is actually happening.

That's right. And this is especially relevant for things that are not just super duper huge that are out there in the universe, but things that are super duper tiny, like electrons, like protons. What do they actually look like? And when I do particle physics, I think about these things visually. I think geometrically in my mind. I think about the relationship of these particles, But what do they actually look like? They look like little balls, don't they They don't look like little balls. We know that little balls are just sort of the mental model we have in our head. It's part of the sort of analogy we make. We say, we like to think of this in terms of something that we know, something we're familiar with, and so it's very easy to do. But then, of course, sometimes these things don't act like balls, that act like waves, right, and so then you have to wonder, like, what do they really look like? Can you see them?

That's right. And this is especially relevant for things that are not just super duper huge that are out there in the universe, but things that are super duper tiny, like electrons, like protons. What do they actually look like? And when I do particle physics, I think about these things visually. I think geometrically in my mind. I think about the relationship of these particles, But what do they actually look like? They look like little balls, don't they They don't look like little balls. We know that little balls are just sort of the mental model we have in our head. It's part of the sort of analogy we make. We say, we like to think of this in terms of something that we know, something we're familiar with, and so it's very easy to do. But then, of course, sometimes these things don't act like balls, that act like waves, right, and so then you have to wonder, like, what do they really look like? Can you see them?

That's right? And so on the podcast today, we'll be asking a very deep question. We'll be asking the question what does an electron look like? Or can you see an electron or other small particles?

That's right? And so on the podcast today, we'll be asking a very deep question. We'll be asking the question what does an electron look like? Or can you see an electron or other small particles?

That's right. If you were ant Man and you got minsculed down to the quantum realm. What would that actually look like? You know, frankly, I was pretty impressed with the creative visuals in that movie for the quantum realm. I thought it was like crazy and psychotic in this way that sort of evoked the weirdness of quantum mechanics without trying to be too specific. What did you think of that?

That's right. If you were ant Man and you got minsculed down to the quantum realm. What would that actually look like? You know, frankly, I was pretty impressed with the creative visuals in that movie for the quantum realm. I thought it was like crazy and psychotic in this way that sort of evoked the weirdness of quantum mechanics without trying to be too specific. What did you think of that?

He didn't scoff at their depiction of an electron or electron clouds and stuff like that.

He didn't scoff at their depiction of an electron or electron clouds and stuff like that.

I will be honest, I was prepared to scoff I had a scoff all loaded up and ready to deliver. It was at the the tip of your tongue, tip of my scoffer. But I was impressed, and so I withheld my scoffing. I thought, you know, what somebody really thought about Somebody must have like talked to a physicist and tried to imagine. And I think there's a lot of real science there in imaging scientific ideas. You know, take what a scientist is describing as a mathematical description of the universe and try to translate it into human thought, and you know, there is really a lot of art there, and it's an important part of science.

I will be honest, I was prepared to scoff I had a scoff all loaded up and ready to deliver. It was at the the tip of your tongue, tip of my scoffer. But I was impressed, and so I withheld my scoffing. I thought, you know, what somebody really thought about Somebody must have like talked to a physicist and tried to imagine. And I think there's a lot of real science there in imaging scientific ideas. You know, take what a scientist is describing as a mathematical description of the universe and try to translate it into human thought, and you know, there is really a lot of art there, and it's an important part of science.

I mean, if you think about it, we're all made out of particles and electrons and core and protons. But what do these things actually look like? I mean, we know what they look like when you stack them together, but if you were to actually blow them up, or if you were to shrink down like Adman, down to that level, would what would you see? What would your brain register? Right?

I mean, if you think about it, we're all made out of particles and electrons and core and protons. But what do these things actually look like? I mean, we know what they look like when you stack them together, but if you were to actually blow them up, or if you were to shrink down like Adman, down to that level, would what would you see? What would your brain register? Right?

That's the question, Yeah, exactly. And when we do particle physics, we're seeking to understand the universe at its lowest level. We want to take it apart. What is it made out of? You know, is it all the way down to strings? And when we talk about building the universe out of these little vibrating strings, everybody gets an image in their head right immediately I think of this little loop as sort of like fuzzy little loop that's shaking around. And so it's very natural, I think, for humans to think of ideas and mathematical models and physical explanations in terms of mental images. And so today we wanted to explore, like, what can we say about what these things look like? How do you see an individual particle? Because in the end, at particle physics experiments, we're talking about electrons and muans as if we have seen them. So we want to pull back the curtain and show you what we can see and what we actually are just imagining.

That's the question, Yeah, exactly. And when we do particle physics, we're seeking to understand the universe at its lowest level. We want to take it apart. What is it made out of? You know, is it all the way down to strings? And when we talk about building the universe out of these little vibrating strings, everybody gets an image in their head right immediately I think of this little loop as sort of like fuzzy little loop that's shaking around. And so it's very natural, I think, for humans to think of ideas and mathematical models and physical explanations in terms of mental images. And so today we wanted to explore, like, what can we say about what these things look like? How do you see an individual particle? Because in the end, at particle physics experiments, we're talking about electrons and muans as if we have seen them. So we want to pull back the curtain and show you what we can see and what we actually are just imagining.

Well, my question when I see that ant n movie is, you know, he shrinks down to the size of an atom or an electron. Right, that's kind of what happens in the movie, right, But how does so what is he made out of at that level? Smaller atoms than molecules? Do you know what I mean? Because he still looks like ant man? So what are his clothes made out of?

Well, my question when I see that ant n movie is, you know, he shrinks down to the size of an atom or an electron. Right, that's kind of what happens in the movie, right, But how does so what is he made out of at that level? Smaller atoms than molecules? Do you know what I mean? Because he still looks like ant man? So what are his clothes made out of?

He's made out of pin particles? Right, No, that's a great question. Like he starts out made out of electrons and other particles, right, then he shrinks down and he's the size of an electron. But you're right, then, have his electrons got trunk down to smaller electrons? Like does that make sense? Or maybe he just gotten compressed so he has the same number of particles but they're you know, just a shorter distance. Because when he's small, doesn't he's supposed to have the same strength and the same like mass and weight as his larger version of himself.

He's made out of pin particles? Right, No, that's a great question. Like he starts out made out of electrons and other particles, right, then he shrinks down and he's the size of an electron. But you're right, then, have his electrons got trunk down to smaller electrons? Like does that make sense? Or maybe he just gotten compressed so he has the same number of particles but they're you know, just a shorter distance. Because when he's small, doesn't he's supposed to have the same strength and the same like mass and weight as his larger version of himself.

Oh, I see, he's just condensed.

Oh, I see, he's just condensed.

Yeah, he's like super dense man.

Yeah, he's like super dense man.

That's that's what they should have been called. Man.

That's that's what they should have been called. Man.

Wait, but then doesn't he also get big when he gets big? If that would be true, then he would be like super light and fluffy man. Right, I'm not sure. I'm not sure the physics is really holding together there. Sorry, ant Man, you just ruined the movie for me. I have the feeling you're able to suspend disbelief and enjoy these movies even if the physics is totally Blowney am I wrong?

Wait, but then doesn't he also get big when he gets big? If that would be true, then he would be like super light and fluffy man. Right, I'm not sure. I'm not sure the physics is really holding together there. Sorry, ant Man, you just ruined the movie for me. I have the feeling you're able to suspend disbelief and enjoy these movies even if the physics is totally Blowney am I wrong?

You mean? Do I have a cough ready when I watch movies?

You mean? Do I have a cough ready when I watch movies?

Or do you have? We been talking for long enough that you have a sort of a mental Daniel in your mind that says, Daniel would think this is cruisy.

Or do you have? We been talking for long enough that you have a sort of a mental Daniel in your mind that says, Daniel would think this is cruisy.

A little bit, I have to say, and I'm not super happy about that.

A little bit, I have to say, and I'm not super happy about that.

I'm so sorry.

I'm so sorry.

I feel like I have to watch every movie with you now. I wish I could go back in time. Daniel.

I feel like I have to watch every movie with you now. I wish I could go back in time. Daniel.

Oh, well, the mental Daniel in your head says that's impossible. Well, that's actually one of my parenting goals is that my kids have a little mental version of me in their head that says, what would my dad say about this decision? And at that point, you know, I'm sort of and I'm not needed anymore.

Oh, well, the mental Daniel in your head says that's impossible. Well, that's actually one of my parenting goals is that my kids have a little mental version of me in their head that says, what would my dad say about this decision? And at that point, you know, I'm sort of and I'm not needed anymore.

Yeah, it sounds like a great conversation your kids will have with their therapists later on. All right. So that's the question today, is what does the world look like at the sort of quantum particle level. If we could see an electron, an individual electron, what we see and how could we see it?

Yeah, it sounds like a great conversation your kids will have with their therapists later on. All right. So that's the question today, is what does the world look like at the sort of quantum particle level. If we could see an electron, an individual electron, what we see and how could we see it?

Right?

Right?

Yeah? Exactly?

Yeah? Exactly?

And how are we seeing it? Because we are getting sort of pictures of that in science right now.

And how are we seeing it? Because we are getting sort of pictures of that in science right now.

Hm.

Hm.

And not only are we claiming to say we saw an electron go this way and we saw a muon go that way, we're claiming statements about the particles that came from things like the Higgs boson that last for very brief moments in time. And so not only are we claiming have seen you know, electrons and muons, which is sort of everyday particles, we're claiming to have seen weird, exotic stuff. So we'll dig into exactly what we mean when we say we saw the Higgs boson, And.

And not only are we claiming to say we saw an electron go this way and we saw a muon go that way, we're claiming statements about the particles that came from things like the Higgs boson that last for very brief moments in time. And so not only are we claiming have seen you know, electrons and muons, which is sort of everyday particles, we're claiming to have seen weird, exotic stuff. So we'll dig into exactly what we mean when we say we saw the Higgs boson, And.

I guess it's kind of a philosophical question, right, like can you actually see one of these particles without touching it or without interacting with it? Can you really like spy on a Higgs boson or spy in a quark. And would it still get a restraining order if you there?

I guess it's kind of a philosophical question, right, like can you actually see one of these particles without touching it or without interacting with it? Can you really like spy on a Higgs boson or spy in a quark. And would it still get a restraining order if you there?

No.

No.

I think that's one of the really interesting deep questions is are these things just mental models, Are these just ideas we have in our head calculational tools we use to predict future experiments, or are these things really there? Right? And that's why we want to see them, because it gives us a sense that things are really there? Right? And did you know I'm actually an expert in this area?

I think that's one of the really interesting deep questions is are these things just mental models, Are these just ideas we have in our head calculational tools we use to predict future experiments, or are these things really there? Right? And that's why we want to see them, because it gives us a sense that things are really there? Right? And did you know I'm actually an expert in this area?

You're an expert being there. I think I'm pretty good at being there too, physically at least.

You're an expert being there. I think I'm pretty good at being there too, physically at least.

No, I'm an expert in pontificating ignorantly about the philosophy of physics.

No, I'm an expert in pontificating ignorantly about the philosophy of physics.

You're a professional physical pontificator.

You're a professional physical pontificator.

No. I was actually given the title of professor of philosophy.

No. I was actually given the title of professor of philosophy.

Oh right, right, that's right, that you do have as part of your job. That is one of your job titles. You're a professor in the philosophy department.

Oh right, right, that's right, that you do have as part of your job. That is one of your job titles. You're a professor in the philosophy department.

Yeah. I just showed up at a bunch of philosophy seminars for a while, and then eventually somebody said, hey, who are you? What are you doing coming to all of our seminars, and then I told them, Hey, I'm a particle physicist. I'm interested in the philosophy philosophical implications of the research, and they were like cool, and then they gave me a joint appointment. Apparently that's all it takes to become a philosopher.

Yeah. I just showed up at a bunch of philosophy seminars for a while, and then eventually somebody said, hey, who are you? What are you doing coming to all of our seminars, and then I told them, Hey, I'm a particle physicist. I'm interested in the philosophy philosophical implications of the research, and they were like cool, and then they gave me a joint appointment. Apparently that's all it takes to become a philosopher.

Did they even check your ID where they're just like, hey, you look you look kind of like a physicist.

Did they even check your ID where they're just like, hey, you look you look kind of like a physicist.

I think I do one in I think I do look kind of like a physicist, and maybe a tiny little bit like a philosopher as they get older and more scruffy. Physics philosopher, Well, maybe I just look look more like a homeless person. I don't know.

I think I do one in I think I do look kind of like a physicist, and maybe a tiny little bit like a philosopher as they get older and more scruffy. Physics philosopher, Well, maybe I just look look more like a homeless person. I don't know.

Either one. You're qualified to be a philosophy professor.

Either one. You're qualified to be a philosophy professor.

There's some quantum superposition between physicists, philosopher, and homeless person.

There's some quantum superposition between physicists, philosopher, and homeless person.

And I'm going for you be all three, you know, something to aim for?

And I'm going for you be all three, you know, something to aim for?

Yeah, well, if this podcast doesn't work out, I might just be.

Yeah, well, if this podcast doesn't work out, I might just be.

That's right if we end up in something everyone else and then get sued out of all the money.

That's right if we end up in something everyone else and then get sued out of all the money.

But I was curious what people think about when we talk about seeing particle how do we see them? And so I walked around campus that you see Irvine, and I asked people, and I said, how can you see tiny particles? How do they do that in particle physics experiments?

But I was curious what people think about when we talk about seeing particle how do we see them? And so I walked around campus that you see Irvine, and I asked people, and I said, how can you see tiny particles? How do they do that in particle physics experiments?

So those of you listening think about it for a second. If somebody asks you on the street, how can you see a particle? What would you answer? Here's what people had to say.

So those of you listening think about it for a second. If somebody asks you on the street, how can you see a particle? What would you answer? Here's what people had to say.

I think we have to use like lens and stuff to use the light like Princible up light and Princible up the lens, so like we can use like we can manify the small stuff to see speaker.

I think we have to use like lens and stuff to use the light like Princible up light and Princible up the lens, so like we can use like we can manify the small stuff to see speaker.

Well, in chemistry, you can literally see through spectroscopy or like atoms and space micro or atoms like microscopes, electron microscope. So it depends on the particle size.

Well, in chemistry, you can literally see through spectroscopy or like atoms and space micro or atoms like microscopes, electron microscope. So it depends on the particle size.

Well, electronic microscopes I guess get to pretty small, but beyond that, I'm not sure. It's you know, they have devices that can sense tiny particulates in air or gases.

Well, electronic microscopes I guess get to pretty small, but beyond that, I'm not sure. It's you know, they have devices that can sense tiny particulates in air or gases.

A microscope I hope. I don't know magnifying this either, one.

A microscope I hope. I don't know magnifying this either, one.

Microscope, very powerful device.

Microscope, very powerful device.

I believe they use something called scintillators, which are kind of like really dense interactive slabs.

I believe they use something called scintillators, which are kind of like really dense interactive slabs.

All right, it seems like everyone's pretty much said how do you look at small things? The answer most people gave was a microscope.

All right, it seems like everyone's pretty much said how do you look at small things? The answer most people gave was a microscope.

Yeah, and that's not a terrible answer, because microscopes are good at seeing really small things, and everybody has that experience, and so I think people just imagine, like, well, if I have a little toy microscope at home that I can use to look at bugs. In a lab, they have a powerful microscope they can use to look at individual cells. Surely you can just make microscopes more and more powerful and see smaller and smaller things. I think they're just sort of extrapolated.

Yeah, and that's not a terrible answer, because microscopes are good at seeing really small things, and everybody has that experience, and so I think people just imagine, like, well, if I have a little toy microscope at home that I can use to look at bugs. In a lab, they have a powerful microscope they can use to look at individual cells. Surely you can just make microscopes more and more powerful and see smaller and smaller things. I think they're just sort of extrapolated.

Bigger, right. Well, I thought it was funny that the answer to how do you look at small things is using a device for looking at small things.

Bigger, right. Well, I thought it was funny that the answer to how do you look at small things is using a device for looking at small things.

Obviously, I use my small things looking at devisonator.

Obviously, I use my small things looking at devisonator.

I mean that's what the microscope means, right, microscope like looking at small things.

I mean that's what the microscope means, right, microscope like looking at small things.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. I think that's pretty common. I mean you could level a lot of the same criticism at physics. You know, what is dark matter. It's something that's dark and we think it has matter, and that's about all we know about it. So sometimes you just sort of encapsulate our ignorance or the totality of our knowledge in a cool sounding.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. I think that's pretty common. I mean you could level a lot of the same criticism at physics. You know, what is dark matter. It's something that's dark and we think it has matter, and that's about all we know about it. So sometimes you just sort of encapsulate our ignorance or the totality of our knowledge in a cool sounding.

Name, which is totally sketchy and or genius if.

Name, which is totally sketchy and or genius if.

You think slash cutting edge science exactly. All right, well, let's dig into it. Let's talk about what a microscope is, how it works, and what it can actually see. What is the limit of microscopy. The key thing to understand there is that a microscope is using light. Right. The way that you usually look at things is that you use light. Right, Photons hit your eye that make an image in the back of your retina. Your brain turns that into however you want to interpret it. Right, So if you're just looking at something microscopic, you know, your hand or a ball or whatever, a homeless physics professor or something, then the image just forms in the back of your eye, right. So microscope is just a fancy device to sort of gather the light from really small things and make that image on the back of your eye.

You think slash cutting edge science exactly. All right, well, let's dig into it. Let's talk about what a microscope is, how it works, and what it can actually see. What is the limit of microscopy. The key thing to understand there is that a microscope is using light. Right. The way that you usually look at things is that you use light. Right, Photons hit your eye that make an image in the back of your retina. Your brain turns that into however you want to interpret it. Right, So if you're just looking at something microscopic, you know, your hand or a ball or whatever, a homeless physics professor or something, then the image just forms in the back of your eye, right. So microscope is just a fancy device to sort of gather the light from really small things and make that image on the back of your eye.

You basically want to cut out all the lights that's coming from other things in the universe and just have the light that's coming from that small thing you're trying to look at be the one that hits.

You basically want to cut out all the lights that's coming from other things in the universe and just have the light that's coming from that small thing you're trying to look at be the one that hits.

Your eye exactly, And you have to remember that the back of your eye has a resolution, right, It has these cones and rods and uses to form an image. If you have something really small and all of its photons hit like the same rod or the same cone, then any detail inside of it is just going to get lost. It's just going to look like a dot right, like one pixel in your eye. But if instead you have these lenses which spread the light out, so this tiny little thing now forms an image that covers the entire back of your eye, then you can tell the difference between one side of it and another of the green parts and the red parts. Right, So it's about spreading the same light from this tiny thing over a larger area on your eye so that you can resolve the differences you can see different parts of it.

Your eye exactly, And you have to remember that the back of your eye has a resolution, right, It has these cones and rods and uses to form an image. If you have something really small and all of its photons hit like the same rod or the same cone, then any detail inside of it is just going to get lost. It's just going to look like a dot right, like one pixel in your eye. But if instead you have these lenses which spread the light out, so this tiny little thing now forms an image that covers the entire back of your eye, then you can tell the difference between one side of it and another of the green parts and the red parts. Right, So it's about spreading the same light from this tiny thing over a larger area on your eye so that you can resolve the differences you can see different parts of it.

I thought that was interesting the way you said it. You basically have to you're looking at a light that you have to bump off of the thing try and look at right, like, you have to shower it with photons, and then you from the ones that bounce around. That's how you tell what's there.

I thought that was interesting the way you said it. You basically have to you're looking at a light that you have to bump off of the thing try and look at right, like, you have to shower it with photons, and then you from the ones that bounce around. That's how you tell what's there.

Yes, exactly right. Remember that things don't emit light unless they're like you know, a light bulb or a sun or whatever. If you're looking at a sample of something, say you've gathered some you know, cells from the inside of your mouth, or you picked up some dirt from the ground and you want to see it. It's not glowing. The only way you see it is when it reflects lights. You need a light source, like a light bulb shoots photons at it, and then those photons bounce off and come to your eye. And you know, different things have different colors, and so they reflect different kinds of lights, and that's why things look green or blue or whatever.

Yes, exactly right. Remember that things don't emit light unless they're like you know, a light bulb or a sun or whatever. If you're looking at a sample of something, say you've gathered some you know, cells from the inside of your mouth, or you picked up some dirt from the ground and you want to see it. It's not glowing. The only way you see it is when it reflects lights. You need a light source, like a light bulb shoots photons at it, and then those photons bounce off and come to your eye. And you know, different things have different colors, and so they reflect different kinds of lights, and that's why things look green or blue or whatever.

And so regular microscopes work with light, and they work with lenses, right, like little pieces of glass that are curved in just the right way to kind of gather all those photons and kind of focus in or spread them in the right way.

And so regular microscopes work with light, and they work with lenses, right, like little pieces of glass that are curved in just the right way to kind of gather all those photons and kind of focus in or spread them in the right way.

Right, yes, exactly, and so it's all this reflected light, and then they spread them out so that the thing you want to look at occupies sort of the back of your i and you're looking at just that. And you know that you can have a pretty weak one, like a magnifying glass does that you can have a more powerful one. My wife has really powerful microscopes in her labs because she looks at individual cells and tries to look at individual viruses, and so you might imagine I can just build a bigger one and a bigger one, and I can build one of the sides of a football stadium, and that'll let me see an electron.

Right, yes, exactly, and so it's all this reflected light, and then they spread them out so that the thing you want to look at occupies sort of the back of your i and you're looking at just that. And you know that you can have a pretty weak one, like a magnifying glass does that you can have a more powerful one. My wife has really powerful microscopes in her labs because she looks at individual cells and tries to look at individual viruses, and so you might imagine I can just build a bigger one and a bigger one, and I can build one of the sides of a football stadium, and that'll let me see an electron.

Right, what's the current limit for optical microscopes or light based microscopes.

Right, what's the current limit for optical microscopes or light based microscopes.

The limit is that light itself sort of has a size. It's not that photons are particles that you can measure with a ruler or anything. Remember, photons are sort of wiggles, right. We think of them as these waves, and the waves have a wave length, and the wavelength is like how long it takes them to wiggle up and then wiggle back down. And different frequencies of light correspond to different wavelengths, right, So high frequencies mean short wavelengths. High frequency just means they wiggle more often, right, So they have shorter wavelengths and longer wavelengths like radio waves have a low frequency. The thing is that light has a frequency, right, And that's sort of like the size of the light. And you can't really see anything that has a that's smaller than the wavelength of light that you're using.

The limit is that light itself sort of has a size. It's not that photons are particles that you can measure with a ruler or anything. Remember, photons are sort of wiggles, right. We think of them as these waves, and the waves have a wave length, and the wavelength is like how long it takes them to wiggle up and then wiggle back down. And different frequencies of light correspond to different wavelengths, right, So high frequencies mean short wavelengths. High frequency just means they wiggle more often, right, So they have shorter wavelengths and longer wavelengths like radio waves have a low frequency. The thing is that light has a frequency, right, And that's sort of like the size of the light. And you can't really see anything that has a that's smaller than the wavelength of light that you're using.

Okay, I guess my question is why not.

Okay, I guess my question is why not.

I think the best way to think about it is that you're using light as a probe. You're like shooting photons at something and you're seeing how it bounces off, right, But instead of light, you're just hard to sort of visualize. Imagine you're like poking at it with a stick, right. If you had like a really wide stick, then you wouldn't really be able to tell small differences and stuff, Whereas if you had a really narrow stick, like with a real point to it, you could really tell the edge. Like a record player works. Record player works, This has a tiny little needle and it goes through the ridges on the record and tells you, like what those little bumps are. Imagine if instead of having a tiny needle, you just use like your finger and you couldn't tell how many little bumps are there, You couldn't get that information out. So what you need is a small little probe to bounce off of to see the tiny little difference.

I think the best way to think about it is that you're using light as a probe. You're like shooting photons at something and you're seeing how it bounces off, right, But instead of light, you're just hard to sort of visualize. Imagine you're like poking at it with a stick, right. If you had like a really wide stick, then you wouldn't really be able to tell small differences and stuff, Whereas if you had a really narrow stick, like with a real point to it, you could really tell the edge. Like a record player works. Record player works, This has a tiny little needle and it goes through the ridges on the record and tells you, like what those little bumps are. Imagine if instead of having a tiny needle, you just use like your finger and you couldn't tell how many little bumps are there, You couldn't get that information out. So what you need is a small little probe to bounce off of to see the tiny little difference.

So that you see so that the light is actually affected by the thing that you're trying to look at. Do you know what I mean?

So that you see so that the light is actually affected by the thing that you're trying to look at. Do you know what I mean?

Like if yes, and then it's affected only by that because if you have if your light is too large a wavelength, then things smaller than that are going to affect the light, but also the things next to it will, right, Like, if the thing you're trying to look at is ten nanimeters and your light has five hundred nanimeters, then the light's going to bounce off the fifty things fifty ten animeter things next to each other, and it's going to give you sort of an average over those. If you want to see things that are really really small, then you need a probe that's that size so it doesn't bounce off it, and it's fifteen neighbors right.

Like if yes, and then it's affected only by that because if you have if your light is too large a wavelength, then things smaller than that are going to affect the light, but also the things next to it will, right, Like, if the thing you're trying to look at is ten nanimeters and your light has five hundred nanimeters, then the light's going to bounce off the fifty things fifty ten animeter things next to each other, and it's going to give you sort of an average over those. If you want to see things that are really really small, then you need a probe that's that size so it doesn't bounce off it, and it's fifteen neighbors right.

All right, So I get that you need a really short wavelength of light to look at really small things exactly. I guess my question is why is that a limitation? Like couldn't we just make light smaller and smaller and smaller also, just like super high frequency light.

All right, So I get that you need a really short wavelength of light to look at really small things exactly. I guess my question is why is that a limitation? Like couldn't we just make light smaller and smaller and smaller also, just like super high frequency light.

Yes, you can with visible light the and microscopy. The limit is about two hundred and fifteen nanimeters. And the reason is that above that the light has such a high frequency that it has such high energy that doesn't bounce off anymore. Instead it becomes X rays, it becomes gamma rays, and they just go right through. And so there's no limit to the energy. You can have of light, but eventually you're just you're building like a laser and you're just zapping these things instead of you know, probing them.

Yes, you can with visible light the and microscopy. The limit is about two hundred and fifteen nanimeters. And the reason is that above that the light has such a high frequency that it has such high energy that doesn't bounce off anymore. Instead it becomes X rays, it becomes gamma rays, and they just go right through. And so there's no limit to the energy. You can have of light, but eventually you're just you're building like a laser and you're just zapping these things instead of you know, probing them.

Oh I see. At some point you strength the wavelength down, but that also increases its energy, and so they start to ignore the thing you're trying to look at. Is that kind of what's going on.

Oh I see. At some point you strength the wavelength down, but that also increases its energy, and so they start to ignore the thing you're trying to look at. Is that kind of what's going on.

Yeah, that's one part of it. The other part of it is the lenses, right, we need lenses to bend this light. The ability of lenses to work depends on the frequency of light, and the higher the frequency, the harder it is. And so like there aren't lenses that can bend X rays or gamma rays very well. And that's the basic principle of the microscope is you're using this lens to expand, to bend the light to take a small image and make it large, and you can't really do that anymore as the light gets very very high frequency.

Yeah, that's one part of it. The other part of it is the lenses, right, we need lenses to bend this light. The ability of lenses to work depends on the frequency of light, and the higher the frequency, the harder it is. And so like there aren't lenses that can bend X rays or gamma rays very well. And that's the basic principle of the microscope is you're using this lens to expand, to bend the light to take a small image and make it large, and you can't really do that anymore as the light gets very very high frequency.

At some point, the light starts to ignore your lenses. Is what you're saying, not just the thing you're trying to look at, but just your ability to like focus.

At some point, the light starts to ignore your lenses. Is what you're saying, not just the thing you're trying to look at, but just your ability to like focus.

Them, yes, exactly. Your ability to focus it and make the image degrades very quickly as the photons get to very high energy. Plus, now you're shooting deadly radiation at whatever it is.

Them, yes, exactly. Your ability to focus it and make the image degrades very quickly as the photons get to very high energy. Plus, now you're shooting deadly radiation at whatever it is.

You mean, it kills the thing you're trying to look at too.

You mean, it kills the thing you're trying to look at too.

Yeah, I mean X rays, you know, are damaging ionizing radiation, and they're great for seeing through things, right, but they're not great for reflecting off of stuff.

Yeah, I mean X rays, you know, are damaging ionizing radiation, and they're great for seeing through things, right, but they're not great for reflecting off of stuff.

But I mean, if you're trying to look at things that don't really die, right, like an electron or a proton, or you know, a small piece of rock, does it really matter if you're shooting it with X rays?

But I mean, if you're trying to look at things that don't really die, right, like an electron or a proton, or you know, a small piece of rock, does it really matter if you're shooting it with X rays?

Man, all particles matter.

Man, all particles matter.

Well, you know, we could do without the neutrinos probably, right.

Well, you know, we could do without the neutrinos probably, right.

Well, the neutrino's lobby is going to be knocking on your door. No, you're right, and we and we can do that, right, We can probe individual particles by shooting X rays at them and shooting gamma rays at them, certainly, But you know, are you forming an image in that case? Right? You're shooting individual particles at these particles and they're bouncing off, but you're not really formed an image in the same way. It's not really micros copy anymore because you're not focusing that image, you know, distorting and focusing that image to make something that you can visually see. Yeah, you can use gamma rays and X rays to probe stuff.

Well, the neutrino's lobby is going to be knocking on your door. No, you're right, and we and we can do that, right, We can probe individual particles by shooting X rays at them and shooting gamma rays at them, certainly, But you know, are you forming an image in that case? Right? You're shooting individual particles at these particles and they're bouncing off, but you're not really formed an image in the same way. It's not really micros copy anymore because you're not focusing that image, you know, distorting and focusing that image to make something that you can visually see. Yeah, you can use gamma rays and X rays to probe stuff.

Or could you make like special lenses, maybe not made out of glass that it gets ignored by X rays, but you know, can you make a special lens made out of something that X rays don't ignore.

Or could you make like special lenses, maybe not made out of glass that it gets ignored by X rays, but you know, can you make a special lens made out of something that X rays don't ignore.

They're working on that, and you know people are doing that, for example, to develop X ray lasers. That's one of the challenges. But it's very difficult to get any sort of material that will bend X rays or gamma rays.

They're working on that, and you know people are doing that, for example, to develop X ray lasers. That's one of the challenges. But it's very difficult to get any sort of material that will bend X rays or gamma rays.

All right, So that's kind of the limitations of traditional microscopes that use light.

All right, So that's kind of the limitations of traditional microscopes that use light.

Yeah, exactly, it's down to about two hundred and fifty nanometers. It's sort of the smallest thing you can see with a light based microscope. But of course, one of the wonders of particle physics is that we think of everything and that's a particle also is sort of a wave. So we can talk about the wavelength of particles like electrons, and you can ask, oh, could instead of using light, instead of bouncing light off of stuff, could we bounce something else off of its something with a smaller wavelength. So people had this idea decades ago, and they said, what about electrons.

Yeah, exactly, it's down to about two hundred and fifty nanometers. It's sort of the smallest thing you can see with a light based microscope. But of course, one of the wonders of particle physics is that we think of everything and that's a particle also is sort of a wave. So we can talk about the wavelength of particles like electrons, and you can ask, oh, could instead of using light, instead of bouncing light off of stuff, could we bounce something else off of its something with a smaller wavelength. So people had this idea decades ago, and they said, what about electrons.

Let's get into that idea of a wavelesscope. Is that how you would call it? Maybe electroscope, a particular telescope, a scope.

Let's get into that idea of a wavelesscope. Is that how you would call it? Maybe electroscope, a particular telescope, a scope.

A squigly scope. Somebody copyright that quick.

A squigly scope. Somebody copyright that quick.

Yeah, but first, let's take a quick break.

Yeah, but first, let's take a quick break.

With big wireless providers, what you see is never what you get. Somewhere between the store and your first month's bill, the price you thought you were paying magically skyrockets. With mint Mobile, You'll never have to worry about gotcha's ever again. When Mint Mobile says fifteen dollars a month for a three month plan, they really mean it. I've used mint Mobile and the call quality is always so crisp and so clear. I can recommend it to you, So say bye bye to your overpriced wireless plans, jaw dropping monthly bills and unexpected overages. You can use your own phone with any mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with your existing contacts. Get your overpriced wireless with Mint Mobiles deal and get three months a premium wireless service for fifteen bucks a month. To get this new customer offer and your new three month premium wireless plan for just fifteen bucks a month. Go to mintmobile dot com slash universe. That's mintmobile dot com slash universe. Cut your wireless build to fifteen bucks a month. At mintmobile dot com slash universe. Forty five dollars upfront payment required equivalent to fifteen dollars per month new customers on first three month plan only speeds slower about forty gigabytes on unlimited plan. Additional taxi speeds and restrictions apply. See mint mobile for details.

With big wireless providers, what you see is never what you get. Somewhere between the store and your first month's bill, the price you thought you were paying magically skyrockets. With mint Mobile, You'll never have to worry about gotcha's ever again. When Mint Mobile says fifteen dollars a month for a three month plan, they really mean it. I've used mint Mobile and the call quality is always so crisp and so clear. I can recommend it to you, So say bye bye to your overpriced wireless plans, jaw dropping monthly bills and unexpected overages. You can use your own phone with any mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with your existing contacts. Get your overpriced wireless with Mint Mobiles deal and get three months a premium wireless service for fifteen bucks a month. To get this new customer offer and your new three month premium wireless plan for just fifteen bucks a month. Go to mintmobile dot com slash universe. That's mintmobile dot com slash universe. Cut your wireless build to fifteen bucks a month. At mintmobile dot com slash universe. Forty five dollars upfront payment required equivalent to fifteen dollars per month new customers on first three month plan only speeds slower about forty gigabytes on unlimited plan. Additional taxi speeds and restrictions apply. See mint mobile for details.

AI might be the most important new computer technology ever. It's storming every industry and literally billions of dollars are being invested, so buckle up. The problem is that AI needs a lot of speed and processing power, So how do you compete without cost spiraling out of control. It's time to upgrade to the next generation of the cloud. Oracle Cloud Infrastructure or OCI. OCI is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has fourty eight times the bandwidth of other clouds, offers one consistent price instead of variable regional pricing, and of course nobody does data better than Oracle. So now you can train your AI models at twice the speed and less than half the cost of other clouds. If you want to do more and spend less, like Uber eight by eight and Data Bricks Mosaic. Take a free test drive of Oci at Oracle dot com slash Strategic. That's Oracle dot com slash Strategic. Oracle dot com slash Strategic.

AI might be the most important new computer technology ever. It's storming every industry and literally billions of dollars are being invested, so buckle up. The problem is that AI needs a lot of speed and processing power, So how do you compete without cost spiraling out of control. It's time to upgrade to the next generation of the cloud. Oracle Cloud Infrastructure or OCI. OCI is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has fourty eight times the bandwidth of other clouds, offers one consistent price instead of variable regional pricing, and of course nobody does data better than Oracle. So now you can train your AI models at twice the speed and less than half the cost of other clouds. If you want to do more and spend less, like Uber eight by eight and Data Bricks Mosaic. Take a free test drive of Oci at Oracle dot com slash Strategic. That's Oracle dot com slash Strategic. Oracle dot com slash Strategic.

If you love iPhone, you'll love Applecard. It's the credit card designed for iPhone. It gives you unlimited daily cash back that can earn four point four zero percent annual percentage yield. When you open a high Yield savings account through Applecard, apply for Applecard in the wallet app, subject to credit approval. Savings is available to Applecard owners subject to eligibility. Apple Card and Savings by Goldman Sachs Bank, USA, Salt Lake City Branch Member, FDIC terms and more at applecard dot com.

If you love iPhone, you'll love Applecard. It's the credit card designed for iPhone. It gives you unlimited daily cash back that can earn four point four zero percent annual percentage yield. When you open a high Yield savings account through Applecard, apply for Applecard in the wallet app, subject to credit approval. Savings is available to Applecard owners subject to eligibility. Apple Card and Savings by Goldman Sachs Bank, USA, Salt Lake City Branch Member, FDIC terms and more at applecard dot com.

All right, we're talking about microscopes and probing the smallest things in the universe, and so we talked about how the optical regular microscopes that we're all used to from physics in high school have a limitation of about two hundred and fifty nanometers. That's the smallest thing we can see with those, which to me sounds pretty small, but maybe for particles that's really big.

All right, we're talking about microscopes and probing the smallest things in the universe, and so we talked about how the optical regular microscopes that we're all used to from physics in high school have a limitation of about two hundred and fifty nanometers. That's the smallest thing we can see with those, which to me sounds pretty small, but maybe for particles that's really big.

Yeah, Like you want to see an individual molecule, right, or you want to look at some complicated thing and see like how do the bonds work?

Yeah, Like you want to see an individual molecule, right, or you want to look at some complicated thing and see like how do the bonds work?

Right?

Right?

You want to zoom down and look at a single hydrogen atom, right, They're much smaller than two hundred and fifty nanometers, And so of course I want to see things that are really small. I'm a particle physicist. I want to be ant Man and zoomed down to the quantum realm and see how the universe works. And so I'm definitely interested in ultra microscopy. Right. And so instead of using light, something else that we can do is we can use and use electrons to see something. And so the idea using electrons is that just like when you use light, Right, when you use light for a microscope, you shine a light bulb on something, and then you're looking at the light that comes off of it to make your image, it's the same with electrons. We shoot a beam of electrons it's something, and then we see how the electrons bounce off, and then we use that to reconstruct an image. It's not a direct image. It's not like the electrons hate your eye. And then make an image in your eye. They go into a computer and a computer says, Okay, this electron bounced off at that angle, which means it is something here that looks like that. These electrons are there bounced off that angle and sort of sort of uses it to reconstruct what the electrons must have bounced off of.

You want to zoom down and look at a single hydrogen atom, right, They're much smaller than two hundred and fifty nanometers, And so of course I want to see things that are really small. I'm a particle physicist. I want to be ant Man and zoomed down to the quantum realm and see how the universe works. And so I'm definitely interested in ultra microscopy. Right. And so instead of using light, something else that we can do is we can use and use electrons to see something. And so the idea using electrons is that just like when you use light, Right, when you use light for a microscope, you shine a light bulb on something, and then you're looking at the light that comes off of it to make your image, it's the same with electrons. We shoot a beam of electrons it's something, and then we see how the electrons bounce off, and then we use that to reconstruct an image. It's not a direct image. It's not like the electrons hate your eye. And then make an image in your eye. They go into a computer and a computer says, Okay, this electron bounced off at that angle, which means it is something here that looks like that. These electrons are there bounced off that angle and sort of sort of uses it to reconstruct what the electrons must have bounced off of.

Okay, so the idea is that electrons are smaller than photons. Is that the idea or you can get an electron to have a smaller wavelength than a photon.

Okay, so the idea is that electrons are smaller than photons. Is that the idea or you can get an electron to have a smaller wavelength than a photon.

Yes, exactly. Electrons can have smaller wavelengths than photons because they have they have more mass and so that ends up giving them a smaller wavelength.

Yes, exactly. Electrons can have smaller wavelengths than photons because they have they have more mass and so that ends up giving them a smaller wavelength.

Oh I see, and also they don't kill the thing you're trying to look at, right, that's kind of part of the idea.

Oh I see, and also they don't kill the thing you're trying to look at, right, that's kind of part of the idea.

That's right. And there's actually different kinds of electron microscopes. There's the ones where the electrons go bounce off of it, which is very similar to light based microscopes. There's also other electron microscopes with electrons do go through the material, the transmission electron microscopes. But the basic idea is the same, is that the wavelength of the electron is small enough that you're sensitive to tiny features. Right. It's the tip of that stick that you're using to sort of drag across the surface of something to see like where are the bumps?

That's right. And there's actually different kinds of electron microscopes. There's the ones where the electrons go bounce off of it, which is very similar to light based microscopes. There's also other electron microscopes with electrons do go through the material, the transmission electron microscopes. But the basic idea is the same, is that the wavelength of the electron is small enough that you're sensitive to tiny features. Right. It's the tip of that stick that you're using to sort of drag across the surface of something to see like where are the bumps?

And then you have to catch the electrons and kind of tell what's happening to them.

And then you have to catch the electrons and kind of tell what's happening to them.

Yes, you have to catch the electrons or you have no idea what happened to them. Right, So you need like a little particle beam. You shoot electrons at something, and then you have to catch the electrons, and from the angle of the electrons you can tell what happened. It's sort of like, you know, imagine that you're in the dark and you're I don't know. There's a wall in front of you. You want to know what the shape of it is, so you throw tennis balls at it, right, And if the tennis balls are.

Yes, you have to catch the electrons or you have no idea what happened to them. Right, So you need like a little particle beam. You shoot electrons at something, and then you have to catch the electrons, and from the angle of the electrons you can tell what happened. It's sort of like, you know, imagine that you're in the dark and you're I don't know. There's a wall in front of you. You want to know what the shape of it is, so you throw tennis balls at it, right, And if the tennis balls are.

Dark tennis balls obviously exactly and glow with electrons.

Dark tennis balls obviously exactly and glow with electrons.

Yeah. I carried glow in the dark tennis balls with me at all times, just in case I end up in this situation, just.

Yeah. I carried glow in the dark tennis balls with me at all times, just in case I end up in this situation, just.

In case there's a power outage.

In case there's a power outage.

Yeah, throw the tennis balls to the wall, and if they bounce up, you know that the wall has a certain angle to it. If they bounce right, then you know the wall has a certain angle to it, and.

Yeah, throw the tennis balls to the wall, and if they bounce up, you know that the wall has a certain angle to it. If they bounce right, then you know the wall has a certain angle to it, and.

You know, and if it says out, then you.

You know, and if it says out, then you.

Then you found your kids, you know. And if you're really careful about it, and you're throwing these tennis balls at different parts of the wall and measuring the angles they bounce out, then you can build a mental image of what the wall looks like without seeing it using light, right, And that's exactly the idea. And you know, the smaller the ball that you throw at the wall, the more you can resolve really small features on the wall. And that's why we want to use small wavelengths.

Then you found your kids, you know. And if you're really careful about it, and you're throwing these tennis balls at different parts of the wall and measuring the angles they bounce out, then you can build a mental image of what the wall looks like without seeing it using light, right, And that's exactly the idea. And you know, the smaller the ball that you throw at the wall, the more you can resolve really small features on the wall. And that's why we want to use small wavelengths.

But you have to be really good at throwing these tennis balls right and measuring where they're.

But you have to be really good at throwing these tennis balls right and measuring where they're.

Going, yes, exactly. You have to be very accurate about shooting them, and you have to be very good at catching them. And then you need a computer to put that all together and to make an image for your brain.

Going, yes, exactly. You have to be very accurate about shooting them, and you have to be very good at catching them. And then you need a computer to put that all together and to make an image for your brain.

And it's pretty cool because we've been able to look at single molecules right with these electron microscopes.

And it's pretty cool because we've been able to look at single molecules right with these electron microscopes.

Yeah, exactly. In two thousand and nine, they made an image of a single molecule. And when I first saw that, I thought, wow, like I've had an image in my head of what a molecule looks like. You know, it's got a bunch of particles zooming around whatever. But here's like a picture. You know, it's like, wow, you think you know what Saturn looks like. And then we fly a pro by and you get actual pictures from Saturn. Right, that's much more satisfying. And to see like a picture.

Yeah, exactly. In two thousand and nine, they made an image of a single molecule. And when I first saw that, I thought, wow, like I've had an image in my head of what a molecule looks like. You know, it's got a bunch of particles zooming around whatever. But here's like a picture. You know, it's like, wow, you think you know what Saturn looks like. And then we fly a pro by and you get actual pictures from Saturn. Right, that's much more satisfying. And to see like a picture.

Of an atom than your imagination, yes.

Of an atom than your imagination, yes.

Exactly, to go from imagination to reality, that's a transformational moment in science.

Exactly, to go from imagination to reality, that's a transformational moment in science.

And so that's what did it look like? Did it look like Paul Rudd?

And so that's what did it look like? Did it look like Paul Rudd?

There was something that would be a shock.

There was something that would be a shock.

It looks like a man, Oh my god, he's been here.

It looks like a man, Oh my god, he's been here.

Yeah, and he wrote, sos right, help me, finally somebody can see me. I'm stuck down here.

Yeah, and he wrote, sos right, help me, finally somebody can see me. I'm stuck down here.

I'm stuck down here with Michelle Pfeiffer.

I'm stuck down here with Michelle Pfeiffer.

Go away. Actually I'm fine. No, it looks sort of like what you would imagine. You know, you you can see the electrons orbiting the nucleus, but you can see that stuff is there. You know, it gives you the idea that it's real, that it's not just a mental calculation. It's pretty fascinating. And then a few years later they were able to image a single hydrogen atom. Right, that's just a proton with an electron around it. It's pretty impressive. And these days electron microscopes can get you down to half of an animetor wow. So light based microscopes are two hundred and fifteen animators. Electron microscopes down to half an animator, So that's a big difference.

Go away. Actually I'm fine. No, it looks sort of like what you would imagine. You know, you you can see the electrons orbiting the nucleus, but you can see that stuff is there. You know, it gives you the idea that it's real, that it's not just a mental calculation. It's pretty fascinating. And then a few years later they were able to image a single hydrogen atom. Right, that's just a proton with an electron around it. It's pretty impressive. And these days electron microscopes can get you down to half of an animetor wow. So light based microscopes are two hundred and fifteen animators. Electron microscopes down to half an animator, So that's a big difference.

To me. That's kind of weird because it's kind of like you're saying, hey, I saw this glow in the dark tennis ball that was sitting there, and then I asked you, how do you know it was there? And then you say, well, I throw a bunch of glue and the dark tennis balls at it, and that's how I know there's a glue in the dark tennis ball there. Do you know what I mean? Isn't that weird?

To me. That's kind of weird because it's kind of like you're saying, hey, I saw this glow in the dark tennis ball that was sitting there, and then I asked you, how do you know it was there? And then you say, well, I throw a bunch of glue and the dark tennis balls at it, and that's how I know there's a glue in the dark tennis ball there. Do you know what I mean? Isn't that weird?

It is kind of weird, And if you want to be really strict about it philosophically, then yeah, you're not really seeing it. You're inferring its existence from you know, probing it, and you're building a mental model. Right. But that's sort of the same with everything, like how do you know that there's a watermelon in front of you like, oh I see it, Well do you see it? Or do you see the photon that bounced off of it? And then your brain built a mental model in the end, it's really the same.

It is kind of weird, And if you want to be really strict about it philosophically, then yeah, you're not really seeing it. You're inferring its existence from you know, probing it, and you're building a mental model. Right. But that's sort of the same with everything, like how do you know that there's a watermelon in front of you like, oh I see it, Well do you see it? Or do you see the photon that bounced off of it? And then your brain built a mental model in the end, it's really the same.

Oh I see you're saying that the watermelon itself didn't hit your eyeball hopefully not, hopefully not. He's you know, looking in the dark with a watermelon throwing it around. You never see the thing you're trying to see, you know what I mean, Like, you never directly touch the thing that you're trying to see. You just touch things that touched it.

Oh I see you're saying that the watermelon itself didn't hit your eyeball hopefully not, hopefully not. He's you know, looking in the dark with a watermelon throwing it around. You never see the thing you're trying to see, you know what I mean, Like, you never directly touch the thing that you're trying to see. You just touch things that touched it.

Yeah, So you can either say you never really see anything, or you could say that's what's seeing is right, interacting with the universe and building a mental model of what you think is out there. And so from that perspective, seeing with light and seeing with electrons it's really the same. I mean, there's maybe more layers of indirection, but they're both indirect at the same level.

Yeah, So you can either say you never really see anything, or you could say that's what's seeing is right, interacting with the universe and building a mental model of what you think is out there. And so from that perspective, seeing with light and seeing with electrons it's really the same. I mean, there's maybe more layers of indirection, but they're both indirect at the same level.

Well, you know what my grandmother always used to say.

Well, you know what my grandmother always used to say.

I'm prepared for some wore heey Grandma, wisdom hit me.

I'm prepared for some wore heey Grandma, wisdom hit me.

So we said, you know that seeing is believing that seeing can be whatever you define it to be.

So we said, you know that seeing is believing that seeing can be whatever you define it to be.

Yeah, exactly, And I think that seeing plays a big role in making people believe something because it's such an overwhelming amount of data. It really affects the way you think about things. It's such a dramatically important part of how we build this model of where we are in the universe. And so I think a lot of people don't believe something unless they can see it. For example, I was listening to the Bologney documentary on Netflix about Bob Lazarre and UFOs, and like, he claims to have seen these things, but if I don't see them, I can't believe what he's saying.

Yeah, exactly, And I think that seeing plays a big role in making people believe something because it's such an overwhelming amount of data. It really affects the way you think about things. It's such a dramatically important part of how we build this model of where we are in the universe. And so I think a lot of people don't believe something unless they can see it. For example, I was listening to the Bologney documentary on Netflix about Bob Lazarre and UFOs, and like, he claims to have seen these things, but if I don't see them, I can't believe what he's saying.

It has to be repeatable, right, like checkable.

It has to be repeatable, right, like checkable.

Yeah, well, especially for something really crazy, like I found an alien spacecraft that uses anti gravity propulsion. You know, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and you know, I wouldn't believe those claims from Stephen Hawking if I couldn't see the ship myself. So I certainly not going to believe it from some random dude.

Yeah, well, especially for something really crazy, like I found an alien spacecraft that uses anti gravity propulsion. You know, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and you know, I wouldn't believe those claims from Stephen Hawking if I couldn't see the ship myself. So I certainly not going to believe it from some random dude.