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Okay, Orgy, I have a physics game for you.

Okay, Orgy, I have a physics game for you.

Is that all physics is to Daniel game? I thought he took particles in black holes? Seriously?

Is that all physics is to Daniel game? I thought he took particles in black holes? Seriously?

Well, this is a game about taking things seriously. It's called would you worry?

Well, this is a game about taking things seriously. It's called would you worry?

Oh man, I'm worried already. Sounds like a metagame.

Oh man, I'm worried already. Sounds like a metagame.

All right? Would you worry if cern created a black hole? Yes, even after all those times I told you not to worry.

All right? Would you worry if cern created a black hole? Yes, even after all those times I told you not to worry.

I mean, you said it's unlikely that they would create a bad black hole. But if you ask me if I'm concerned that they created a black hole? All right?

I mean, you said it's unlikely that they would create a bad black hole. But if you ask me if I'm concerned that they created a black hole? All right?

Would you worry if we shot a beam of high energy particles through your backyard? Yes?

Would you worry if we shot a beam of high energy particles through your backyard? Yes?

Also, yes, high energy particles can never be good. My kids play in that yard.

Also, yes, high energy particles can never be good. My kids play in that yard.

What if we shot it through the yard. Is in like underground.

What if we shot it through the yard. Is in like underground.

They won't come up.

They won't come up.

They will not come up.

They will not come up.

But I'm still a little bit worried because you know, why would you do that?

But I'm still a little bit worried because you know, why would you do that?

Why not?

Why not?

Hi am or Hey, I'm a cartoonist and the creator of PhD comics.

Hi am or Hey, I'm a cartoonist and the creator of PhD comics.

Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicists, and I don't shoot particles at your children.

Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicists, and I don't shoot particles at your children.

Not usually, only if they're in your lawn. Is that what happens?

Not usually, only if they're in your lawn. Is that what happens?

Only if they're deep deep underground your lawn.

Only if they're deep deep underground your lawn.

You have a little particle shooter in your porch.

You have a little particle shooter in your porch.

Well, you know, sometimes particle physicists build accelerators underground. And in the US you own the land all the way to the center of the earth, and so you have to get permission from people to build underneath their land. But in other countries, like in Europe, you only own the earth down to like fifty meters below your land, so the government can build whatever accelerator they want under your property.

Well, you know, sometimes particle physicists build accelerators underground. And in the US you own the land all the way to the center of the earth, and so you have to get permission from people to build underneath their land. But in other countries, like in Europe, you only own the earth down to like fifty meters below your land, so the government can build whatever accelerator they want under your property.

Waity, are you telling me that I own my land all the way to the center of earth.

Waity, are you telling me that I own my land all the way to the center of earth.

That's right, all the way down to the center of the earth. US land law says that you are the owner of that entire What is it cone or pyramid of Earth.

That's right, all the way down to the center of the earth. US land law says that you are the owner of that entire What is it cone or pyramid of Earth.

Wow, I should build the biggest bunker humanity has ever seen.

Wow, I should build the biggest bunker humanity has ever seen.

Very long, very thin bunker with very low gravity near the center multitiered pools.

Very long, very thin bunker with very low gravity near the center multitiered pools.

You know, be a great apocalypse. But anyways, welcome to our podcast Daniel and Jorge explain the Universe production of iHeartRadio, in.

You know, be a great apocalypse. But anyways, welcome to our podcast Daniel and Jorge explain the Universe production of iHeartRadio, in.

Which we take you all the way down to the center of the Earth to understand what's going on underneath your feet. Are there bunkers down there are particle physicists doing experiments you aren't aware of, and we zoom out to the wider universe to help you understand why we're here, what we're doing, and what the future holds.

Which we take you all the way down to the center of the Earth to understand what's going on underneath your feet. Are there bunkers down there are particle physicists doing experiments you aren't aware of, and we zoom out to the wider universe to help you understand why we're here, what we're doing, and what the future holds.

That's right, all the way to the far corners of the universe to explore all the things that we can barely see and we can see and that we might one day see. And we also take you down to the very core of you, to your atoms and to your particles, and to all the things that make you who you are.

That's right, all the way to the far corners of the universe to explore all the things that we can barely see and we can see and that we might one day see. And we also take you down to the very core of you, to your atoms and to your particles, and to all the things that make you who you are.

That's right because we think the biggest game in town is trying to understand what the world is made out of. You look around and you have to wonder, why is the world this way and not some other way. What are the basic rules that make everything up? How do they explain the reason why cats are so weird and dogs are so friendly? The end has to all come down to the tiny little particle.

That's right because we think the biggest game in town is trying to understand what the world is made out of. You look around and you have to wonder, why is the world this way and not some other way. What are the basic rules that make everything up? How do they explain the reason why cats are so weird and dogs are so friendly? The end has to all come down to the tiny little particle.

That's right, and the even deeper question, why are we made of the particles that we're made out of? Aren't we made out of other particles?

That's right, and the even deeper question, why are we made of the particles that we're made out of? Aren't we made out of other particles?

That's right because scientists have discovered lots of really weird symmetries. We have a certain set of particles, but there are other possible particles out there, particles that you can create in high energy collisions, but you just don't see very often. And some of those particles are weird reflections of the particles we are made out of. We are made out of matter, but it's also possible to create anti matter.

That's right because scientists have discovered lots of really weird symmetries. We have a certain set of particles, but there are other possible particles out there, particles that you can create in high energy collisions, but you just don't see very often. And some of those particles are weird reflections of the particles we are made out of. We are made out of matter, but it's also possible to create anti matter.

Yeah, because we have this standard model, right Daniel, that explains or that maps out all the particles that we know about. And so there's a big question of whether or not that model is like done, Is it wrapped up? Is that all the matter there is? You know, now that we found the Higgs boson, what's left to learn about the particles that make up matter in the universe? But there's still sort of one unanswered question about it, right.

Yeah, because we have this standard model, right Daniel, that explains or that maps out all the particles that we know about. And so there's a big question of whether or not that model is like done, Is it wrapped up? Is that all the matter there is? You know, now that we found the Higgs boson, what's left to learn about the particles that make up matter in the universe? But there's still sort of one unanswered question about it, right.

That's right, I got more than one unanswered question?

That's right, I got more than one unanswered question?

Well, I only have one? What is this podcast about?

Well, I only have one? What is this podcast about?

But you're right, there's sometimes the perception that because we have the Standard Model of physics and for a long time we said there was one missing piece, the Higgs boson, And that's true. We thought that piece existed and it was missing, and then we did find it. But that doesn't mean that questions are over. We don't just tie a bow on it and walk away and say that's it, we're done. We look at it and we ask questions about it, and we say why is it this way and not some other way. We look at things in our universe that don't have explanations, like why is there so much matter and not antimatter? That's something we can't currently explain using even the complete Standard model of particle physics.

But you're right, there's sometimes the perception that because we have the Standard Model of physics and for a long time we said there was one missing piece, the Higgs boson, And that's true. We thought that piece existed and it was missing, and then we did find it. But that doesn't mean that questions are over. We don't just tie a bow on it and walk away and say that's it, we're done. We look at it and we ask questions about it, and we say why is it this way and not some other way. We look at things in our universe that don't have explanations, like why is there so much matter and not antimatter? That's something we can't currently explain using even the complete Standard model of particle physics.

Yeah, it's a very big question that basically determines everything, because the whole universe could have gone the antimatter way, right, Everything could have been made out of antimatter, but somehow, for some reason, everything is made out of matter, not antimatter. Yeah, And so a big question is whether or not. We can explain that with some of the particles that we have, namely the new trino.

Yeah, it's a very big question that basically determines everything, because the whole universe could have gone the antimatter way, right, Everything could have been made out of antimatter, but somehow, for some reason, everything is made out of matter, not antimatter. Yeah, And so a big question is whether or not. We can explain that with some of the particles that we have, namely the new trino.

That's right, one of the least explored areas of the Standard Model. Are these weird new trinos. You might have heard of them, because this is pumping them out at an incredible rate. There's like one hundred billion of them passing through your fingernail every second as we sit here on the surface of the Earth. And they can do a bunch of really weird stuff. They come in three different flavors, they turn from one into the other, but their mysteries are only beginning to be cracked, and they could have the answers to some of these really big questions that are still open in particle physics.

That's right, one of the least explored areas of the Standard Model. Are these weird new trinos. You might have heard of them, because this is pumping them out at an incredible rate. There's like one hundred billion of them passing through your fingernail every second as we sit here on the surface of the Earth. And they can do a bunch of really weird stuff. They come in three different flavors, they turn from one into the other, but their mysteries are only beginning to be cracked, and they could have the answers to some of these really big questions that are still open in particle physics.

Yeah, why did Natrina's only come in three flavors? Is it like vanilla, chocolate, and strawberry? Can you make Neapolitan neutrinos? Send Neopolitan ice cream from Italy? Also, that's where Natrino's were discovered or named at least.

Yeah, why did Natrina's only come in three flavors? Is it like vanilla, chocolate, and strawberry? Can you make Neapolitan neutrinos? Send Neopolitan ice cream from Italy? Also, that's where Natrino's were discovered or named at least.

So many connections being made today. But you know, if there were only three flavors in the world, would you want them to be chocolate, vanilla, and strawberry?

So many connections being made today. But you know, if there were only three flavors in the world, would you want them to be chocolate, vanilla, and strawberry?

No?

No?

Because I'm allergic to strawberry, but that's probably the only reason.

Because I'm allergic to strawberry, but that's probably the only reason.

To be honest, be careful what you wish for the man. I would be like chocolate, darker chocolate and super dark chocolate and pure chocolate, pure chocolate. At the ice cream part, I just want a block of chocolate. Who needs cream and ice just delivery mechanisms. But yeah, we don't know why neutrino's coming three flavors, And in the last twenty years we learned some weird things about neutrinos, like sometimes they're made in one flavor, and they can while flying through space turn weirdly into a different flavor, which isn't something other particles can do. They have these really tiny little masses, not zero, they definitely have some masks. They're not like photons, but their masses are much smaller than anything else we've ever seen.

To be honest, be careful what you wish for the man. I would be like chocolate, darker chocolate and super dark chocolate and pure chocolate, pure chocolate. At the ice cream part, I just want a block of chocolate. Who needs cream and ice just delivery mechanisms. But yeah, we don't know why neutrino's coming three flavors, And in the last twenty years we learned some weird things about neutrinos, like sometimes they're made in one flavor, and they can while flying through space turn weirdly into a different flavor, which isn't something other particles can do. They have these really tiny little masses, not zero, they definitely have some masks. They're not like photons, but their masses are much smaller than anything else we've ever seen.

They have a very subtle flavor neutrinos. But yeah, that's the question for today is whether or not neutrinos could you know, explain one of the biggest questions in particle physics. And so today on the podcast we'll be answering the question, are neutrinos the reason why we have matter and not antimatter in the universe. That's a big question, Daniel.

They have a very subtle flavor neutrinos. But yeah, that's the question for today is whether or not neutrinos could you know, explain one of the biggest questions in particle physics. And so today on the podcast we'll be answering the question, are neutrinos the reason why we have matter and not antimatter in the universe. That's a big question, Daniel.

It's a big question.

It's a big question.

Yeah, to hang on on one little poor particle.

Yeah, to hang on on one little poor particle.

I know we often think like, well, neutrinos hardly have any matter to them. I mean, there's almost no mass there, so how can they matter so much? But remember that there are lots of them, right There are billions and billions of them in every cubic centimeter of our solar system. So even though there are very few of them, they really add up, you know, they're like votes. Every neutrino counts.

I know we often think like, well, neutrinos hardly have any matter to them. I mean, there's almost no mass there, so how can they matter so much? But remember that there are lots of them, right There are billions and billions of them in every cubic centimeter of our solar system. So even though there are very few of them, they really add up, you know, they're like votes. Every neutrino counts.

Yeah, And right now, there's a big experiment, right Daniel, that's trying to answer this question, and it has a pretty cool name, at least if you're a sci fi fan or a fan of SAND.

Yeah, And right now, there's a big experiment, right Daniel, that's trying to answer this question, and it has a pretty cool name, at least if you're a sci fi fan or a fan of SAND.

I'm a fan of science fiction and SAND, so I love this experiment. Because the United States has made a sort of political strategic choice to not try to have the highest energy collider in the world anymore. We've sort of given up and let cern takeover instead. The United States communities decided we're going to focus on new trinos. We think neutrinos are the place to discover the new secrets of the universe. So The biggest particle physics experiment in the United States right now is not a huge collider to smash particles together at the highest energy's ever seen. But instead, it's a neutrino experiment to try to understand the mysteries of these neutrinos. And it's called Dune Dune.

I'm a fan of science fiction and SAND, so I love this experiment. Because the United States has made a sort of political strategic choice to not try to have the highest energy collider in the world anymore. We've sort of given up and let cern takeover instead. The United States communities decided we're going to focus on new trinos. We think neutrinos are the place to discover the new secrets of the universe. So The biggest particle physics experiment in the United States right now is not a huge collider to smash particles together at the highest energy's ever seen. But instead, it's a neutrino experiment to try to understand the mysteries of these neutrinos. And it's called Dune Dune.

The Deep Underground Neutrino Experiment, and it's outside of Chicago Infermilab, right.

The Deep Underground Neutrino Experiment, and it's outside of Chicago Infermilab, right.

That's right. It actually stretches part of the way across the country. Yes, we'll get into all of that, but it shoots neutrinos from one part of the country through a bunch of backyards to another part of the country. It's pretty amazing, all right.

That's right. It actually stretches part of the way across the country. Yes, we'll get into all of that, but it shoots neutrinos from one part of the country through a bunch of backyards to another part of the country. It's pretty amazing, all right.

Well, we were wondering how many people out there in the Internet that had heard of this experiment, the Dune experiment. And again, it has nothing to do with the spice or giant worms.

Well, we were wondering how many people out there in the Internet that had heard of this experiment, the Dune experiment. And again, it has nothing to do with the spice or giant worms.

You don't know that they could discover giant worms.

You don't know that they could discover giant worms.

I mean, they are underground, aren't they. Who knows what's out there.

I mean, they are underground, aren't they. Who knows what's out there.

You got to keep an open mind every time you do an experiment.

You got to keep an open mind every time you do an experiment.

It could be a giant water reservoir down there. But anyways, we're wondering how many people out there. I had heard of this, so as usual, Daniel went out into the wilds of the Internet to ask this question.

It could be a giant water reservoir down there. But anyways, we're wondering how many people out there. I had heard of this, so as usual, Daniel went out into the wilds of the Internet to ask this question.

So thank you to everybody who volunteered to answer these random questions. If you would like to hear your random speculation on our podcast, please volunteer two questions at Danielanjorge dot com.

So thank you to everybody who volunteered to answer these random questions. If you would like to hear your random speculation on our podcast, please volunteer two questions at Danielanjorge dot com.

So before you listen to these answers, think about it for a second. Have you heard of the Dune experiment? Here's what people had to say. That's another one, unfortunately I have not heard of, unless it's referred to the Dune novels by Frank Herbert.

So before you listen to these answers, think about it for a second. Have you heard of the Dune experiment? Here's what people had to say. That's another one, unfortunately I have not heard of, unless it's referred to the Dune novels by Frank Herbert.

I don't know if this is an acronym, and I am not sure what the letters stand for. But since I'm in the microbiology field, I'm going to say that it involves testing for some kind of extraterrestrial microbes in sand or soils from other planets.

I don't know if this is an acronym, and I am not sure what the letters stand for. But since I'm in the microbiology field, I'm going to say that it involves testing for some kind of extraterrestrial microbes in sand or soils from other planets.

Don't know. Never heard of that one. I'm blank on that one.

Don't know. Never heard of that one. I'm blank on that one.

I live five miles from Fermilab and I take advantage of their lecture series and things, so I know the Dune experiment. Fermi Lab is shooting streams of neutrinos and anti neutrinos through the Earth. To a detector in a mile deep in South Dakota.

I live five miles from Fermilab and I take advantage of their lecture series and things, so I know the Dune experiment. Fermi Lab is shooting streams of neutrinos and anti neutrinos through the Earth. To a detector in a mile deep in South Dakota.

I have no idea what the Dune experiments is. Maybe I should know this, but I hope that they will answer everything.

I have no idea what the Dune experiments is. Maybe I should know this, but I hope that they will answer everything.

Well, I've definitely never heard of the Dune experiments. I hope that they would be looking for a spice to extend human life and make space travel more feasible.

Well, I've definitely never heard of the Dune experiments. I hope that they would be looking for a spice to extend human life and make space travel more feasible.

So mostly blanks on that one.

So mostly blanks on that one.

Yeah, except for that one person who lives is near it. I guess they're probably pretty aware of it and maybe a little concern. Who knows.

Yeah, except for that one person who lives is near it. I guess they're probably pretty aware of it and maybe a little concern. Who knows.

They did sound very concerned. They sound more happy with themselves to have heard of it. But I like the one that's suggesting that maybe it was looking for a spice to extend human life.

They did sound very concerned. They sound more happy with themselves to have heard of it. But I like the one that's suggesting that maybe it was looking for a spice to extend human life.

Ooh, that would probably get more funding more easily.

Ooh, that would probably get more funding more easily.

Yeah, let's fund every science fiction novel as a part of a physics experiment.

Yeah, let's fund every science fiction novel as a part of a physics experiment.

There you go, lightsabers and transporter beams. So let's get on it.

There you go, lightsabers and transporter beams. So let's get on it.

Daniel, send me the money. I'll get started.

Daniel, send me the money. I'll get started.

All right. Well, let's step through this. What is doone the deep underground Neutrino experiment.

All right. Well, let's step through this. What is doone the deep underground Neutrino experiment.

So this is a really awesome new massive experiment. It's being built right now. It's not finished yet it's going to be finished in the next five ten years, and it's going to try to unravel some of these mysteries, try to understand the relationship between neutrinos and anti neutrinos and help us understand how they could potentially give us a clue about how anti matter all got disappeared from the universe. And it starts at Fermu Lab, which is this collider facility outside of Chicago. It's actually where I did my PhD work. It's out in the suburbs of Chicago, near Naperville and Batavia.

So this is a really awesome new massive experiment. It's being built right now. It's not finished yet it's going to be finished in the next five ten years, and it's going to try to unravel some of these mysteries, try to understand the relationship between neutrinos and anti neutrinos and help us understand how they could potentially give us a clue about how anti matter all got disappeared from the universe. And it starts at Fermu Lab, which is this collider facility outside of Chicago. It's actually where I did my PhD work. It's out in the suburbs of Chicago, near Naperville and Batavia.

Interesting and then nothing bad happened to you, at least none if you count of PhD.

Interesting and then nothing bad happened to you, at least none if you count of PhD.

Yeah, well there were some adventures there, but not appropriate for this podcast. Well maybe they are actually, Like, for example, the first year that I worked at Fermilab Halloween and I thought, hey, firm Lab is a kooky place. Probably everybody shows up at work in costume, right, Uh huh, So I showed have worked in a clown costumes. Only person in the entire facility to wear costume to work on.

Yeah, well there were some adventures there, but not appropriate for this podcast. Well maybe they are actually, Like, for example, the first year that I worked at Fermilab Halloween and I thought, hey, firm Lab is a kooky place. Probably everybody shows up at work in costume, right, Uh huh, So I showed have worked in a clown costumes. Only person in the entire facility to wear costume to work on.

Holloway, like makeup wig the whole thing.

Holloway, like makeup wig the whole thing.

Makeup wig, the whole thing. That was pretty goofy and so ten minutes in when I realized nobody else was wearing costume, I you know, I pulled off the bits that I could, washed off the makeup, but I was still walking around all day in oversized blue shoes.

Makeup wig, the whole thing. That was pretty goofy and so ten minutes in when I realized nobody else was wearing costume, I you know, I pulled off the bits that I could, washed off the makeup, but I was still walking around all day in oversized blue shoes.

Oh man, did you become famous on campus for that?

Oh man, did you become famous on campus for that?

Yeah? Infamous? I thought, Really, my academic career had tanked.

Yeah? Infamous? I thought, Really, my academic career had tanked.

At that point. I would have thought that wouldy paid attention to you.

At that point. I would have thought that wouldy paid attention to you.

You think it'd blend in, But you know, among the khaki shorts and stained T shirts, I really did kind of stick out.

You think it'd blend in, But you know, among the khaki shorts and stained T shirts, I really did kind of stick out.

Well that sounds like a pretty upper bid story. But yeah, so what so you guys started smashing patrinos catching natrinos? You're looking for natrinos? What's involved in the experiment.

Well that sounds like a pretty upper bid story. But yeah, so what so you guys started smashing patrinos catching natrinos? You're looking for natrinos? What's involved in the experiment.

Well, what they're doing is there making a beam of neutrinos at Fermulab and then they're shooting it into a detector. And Fermilab used to be the place where you had the highest energy collisions in the world back in twenty to twenty ten. It was the energy frontier. There were no higher energy collisions, and it was smashing protons and anti protons together. But then it sort of lost the race discern and it's been repurposed, and they're taking that beam of protons and they're turning it into a neutrino beam or an anti neutrino beam.

Well, what they're doing is there making a beam of neutrinos at Fermulab and then they're shooting it into a detector. And Fermilab used to be the place where you had the highest energy collisions in the world back in twenty to twenty ten. It was the energy frontier. There were no higher energy collisions, and it was smashing protons and anti protons together. But then it sort of lost the race discern and it's been repurposed, and they're taking that beam of protons and they're turning it into a neutrino beam or an anti neutrino beam.

Or you speacause if you don't know what's coming out.

Or you speacause if you don't know what's coming out.

No, they do both. They have like a knob. They can produce a beam of neutrinos or a beam of anti neutrinos.

No, they do both. They have like a knob. They can produce a beam of neutrinos or a beam of anti neutrinos.

Yeah, I'm confused because that'sought neutrino's words own anti neutrinos.

Yeah, I'm confused because that'sought neutrino's words own anti neutrinos.

Well, we don't know, right, we can produce neutrinos and we can produce anti neutrinos. We don't know if they're the same particle or not.

Well, we don't know, right, we can produce neutrinos and we can produce anti neutrinos. We don't know if they're the same particle or not.

What I guess, how do you know you're making anti neutrinos. We don't know if they're the same thing as regular neutrinos.

What I guess, how do you know you're making anti neutrinos. We don't know if they're the same thing as regular neutrinos.

Yeah, that's a great question. Well, typically neutrinos, which are matter, are produced from decays of other matter, and anti neutrinos, which are antimatter, are produced from decays of other antimatter. And in these collisions, we can make both kinds and we can select for matter or we can select for antimatter, and then we can just sort of lead it decay. So the way it works is we smash protons at some target, which makes a big mess. You get lots of crazy particles out pions and chaons and all sorts of stuff. And that stuff usually has electric charges, so we can separate it using a magnet. We can say, all right, the positive ones over here and the negative ones over here. So that gives us like mostly matter or mostly antimatter that travels through a long space where the chaons and pions they all decay into lighter particles like neutrinos that we're looking for, and then also electrons and muons, and the Earth absorbs all of it except for the neutrinos, and so we don't specifically produce neutrinos or anti neutrinos. We produce stuff which turns into neutrinos or stuff which turns into anti neutrinos, and then we just let the Earth filter it all away.

Yeah, that's a great question. Well, typically neutrinos, which are matter, are produced from decays of other matter, and anti neutrinos, which are antimatter, are produced from decays of other antimatter. And in these collisions, we can make both kinds and we can select for matter or we can select for antimatter, and then we can just sort of lead it decay. So the way it works is we smash protons at some target, which makes a big mess. You get lots of crazy particles out pions and chaons and all sorts of stuff. And that stuff usually has electric charges, so we can separate it using a magnet. We can say, all right, the positive ones over here and the negative ones over here. So that gives us like mostly matter or mostly antimatter that travels through a long space where the chaons and pions they all decay into lighter particles like neutrinos that we're looking for, and then also electrons and muons, and the Earth absorbs all of it except for the neutrinos, and so we don't specifically produce neutrinos or anti neutrinos. We produce stuff which turns into neutrinos or stuff which turns into anti neutrinos, and then we just let the Earth filter it all away.

So that's the knob you can dial. You can dial like smash matter or smash antimatter, like we can produce antimatter that well, we can.

So that's the knob you can dial. You can dial like smash matter or smash antimatter, like we can produce antimatter that well, we can.

Produce antimatter absolutely. You just smash protons into a big heavy block of matter graphite in this case, and you get a huge spray of stuff, both matter and antimatter. I mean a proton smashing into graphite. It starts out with just plus one electric charge, right because of the proton. Then you've got a huge bunch of particles. But you can get like plus five hundred electric charge over there and minus four hundred and ninety nine electric charge over here, So you get a combination of matter and antimatter.

Produce antimatter absolutely. You just smash protons into a big heavy block of matter graphite in this case, and you get a huge spray of stuff, both matter and antimatter. I mean a proton smashing into graphite. It starts out with just plus one electric charge, right because of the proton. Then you've got a huge bunch of particles. But you can get like plus five hundred electric charge over there and minus four hundred and ninety nine electric charge over here, So you get a combination of matter and antimatter.

Oh, I see the antimatter has like the negative charge.

Oh, I see the antimatter has like the negative charge.

Yeah, in some cases in the same way. For example, a photon can turn into an electron and a positron, right, so it can turn into matter and antimatter, and then you could separate them and say, oh, give me all the matter, or give me all the anti matter. And so that's what you do here. And the super cool thing is that you're not interested in any of it except for the neutrinos. So you got to filter everything out like a sieve where you want to get everything out of the way except for the neutrinos. Neutrinos are the only thing you basically can't bend or turn or stop. So the way you get everything else out of your beam is you just slam it into the earth and let the earth absorb all of it except for the neutrinos.

Yeah, in some cases in the same way. For example, a photon can turn into an electron and a positron, right, so it can turn into matter and antimatter, and then you could separate them and say, oh, give me all the matter, or give me all the anti matter. And so that's what you do here. And the super cool thing is that you're not interested in any of it except for the neutrinos. So you got to filter everything out like a sieve where you want to get everything out of the way except for the neutrinos. Neutrinos are the only thing you basically can't bend or turn or stop. So the way you get everything else out of your beam is you just slam it into the earth and let the earth absorb all of it except for the neutrinos.

Mmmmm.

Mmmmm.

Interesting. So you produce them at Fermilab, but then you catch them somewhere else, Like you don't catch them right away.

Interesting. So you produce them at Fermilab, but then you catch them somewhere else, Like you don't catch them right away.

That's right, we produce them at Fermi Lab. We're interested in how these neutrinos change over time, like do they turn mulean neutrinos into electron neutrinos or into town neutrinos or into anti neutrinos or what do they do? So we've got to give them time to do that. So we want to watch this beam. We take a snapshot of it immediately as soon as it's measure to get a sent for what was in there. And then we take a snapshot that's thirteen hundred kilometers away in South Dakota.

That's right, we produce them at Fermi Lab. We're interested in how these neutrinos change over time, like do they turn mulean neutrinos into electron neutrinos or into town neutrinos or into anti neutrinos or what do they do? So we've got to give them time to do that. So we want to watch this beam. We take a snapshot of it immediately as soon as it's measure to get a sent for what was in there. And then we take a snapshot that's thirteen hundred kilometers away in South Dakota.

What you shoot them in Chicago and you catch them in South Dakota.

What you shoot them in Chicago and you catch them in South Dakota.

Yeah, they're made in this surgs of Chicago. And then they're just aimed through the earth like the earth curves, and we shoot them in a straight line sort of under the curve of the Earth. So they come into this mine in South Dakota.

Yeah, they're made in this surgs of Chicago. And then they're just aimed through the earth like the earth curves, and we shoot them in a straight line sort of under the curve of the Earth. So they come into this mine in South Dakota.

What and nobody cares like you can just shoot stuff through the earth like that.

What and nobody cares like you can just shoot stuff through the earth like that.

You can just shoot stuff under people's property because you know, neutrinos do nothing. You know, you're not going to give anybody cancer shooting neutrinos under their house, right.

You can just shoot stuff under people's property because you know, neutrinos do nothing. You know, you're not going to give anybody cancer shooting neutrinos under their house, right.

That you know of We know.

That you know of We know.

It's sort of amazing because usually when you make a beam of particles, you very carefully shoot it through a vacuum because you don't want to lose any of your particles. Like the beam that's at the LHC the Large Hadron Collider is through a very very low vacuum tube. But here you specifically shoot neutrinos through rock and rubble and all sorts of crazy stuff to get rid of all the other particles. So it's sort of awesome.

It's sort of amazing because usually when you make a beam of particles, you very carefully shoot it through a vacuum because you don't want to lose any of your particles. Like the beam that's at the LHC the Large Hadron Collider is through a very very low vacuum tube. But here you specifically shoot neutrinos through rock and rubble and all sorts of crazy stuff to get rid of all the other particles. So it's sort of awesome.

Wow.

Wow.

All right, let's get into why we're shooting this beam of neutrino's thirteen hundred miles to South Dakota and what we're going to learn from them. But first, let's take a quick break.

All right, let's get into why we're shooting this beam of neutrino's thirteen hundred miles to South Dakota and what we're going to learn from them. But first, let's take a quick break.

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All right, Daniel, So about trillion and natrinas per second are being shot out of Chicago and they're being caught in South Dakota. So these are going How far underground are these trina's going like underneath me? How far would I be able to catch them?

All right, Daniel, So about trillion and natrinas per second are being shot out of Chicago and they're being caught in South Dakota. So these are going How far underground are these trina's going like underneath me? How far would I be able to catch them?

Well, when they hit in South Dakota, they're about a mile underground. About halfway through their trip, they're even further because the curvect to the earth piles above them. So they're produced in Chicago and they're just above ground there when they're made, and they're shot into the earth, and then they go deeper and deeper and deeper, and then the curvage of the earth sort of curves back towards them. But they end up about a mile underground where there's a mine, an old mine that was used for you know, mining, and has now been taken over by particle physics experiments where people want to look for really rare stuff, and they do these experiments underground so that they're not constantly drowned out by the noise from cosmic rays particles from space that would otherwise fill your experiments.

Well, when they hit in South Dakota, they're about a mile underground. About halfway through their trip, they're even further because the curvect to the earth piles above them. So they're produced in Chicago and they're just above ground there when they're made, and they're shot into the earth, and then they go deeper and deeper and deeper, and then the curvage of the earth sort of curves back towards them. But they end up about a mile underground where there's a mine, an old mine that was used for you know, mining, and has now been taken over by particle physics experiments where people want to look for really rare stuff, and they do these experiments underground so that they're not constantly drowned out by the noise from cosmic rays particles from space that would otherwise fill your experiments.

And you were telling me earlier that you know, I technically on the ground underneath me from my house down to the core of the earth. So did the US get permission from everyone along the way or do they just did it?

And you were telling me earlier that you know, I technically on the ground underneath me from my house down to the core of the earth. So did the US get permission from everyone along the way or do they just did it?

Nope, they just did it. They can't build a facility to your house because you own it, but they can shoot particles through it underground.

Nope, they just did it. They can't build a facility to your house because you own it, but they can shoot particles through it underground.

Really that was a loophole.

Really that was a loophole.

Yeah, they don't need your permission to send cell phone signals through your house, for example, or radio waves. It's the same deal.

Yeah, they don't need your permission to send cell phone signals through your house, for example, or radio waves. It's the same deal.

I guess did they slip that in under the same regulations, like the FTC approve this experiment SCC.

I guess did they slip that in under the same regulations, like the FTC approve this experiment SCC.

I don't know if SEC or the SEC or the POC or anything approved this, but they're doing it. And you know, remember the neutrinos, they hardly ever interact, Like they'll go through a light year of lead and have a fifty percent chance of interacting. So there are trillions of neutrinos produced per second, but only a handful of them are seen, and it takes a really really specialized, very sense of detector to see any of them.

I don't know if SEC or the SEC or the POC or anything approved this, but they're doing it. And you know, remember the neutrinos, they hardly ever interact, Like they'll go through a light year of lead and have a fifty percent chance of interacting. So there are trillions of neutrinos produced per second, but only a handful of them are seen, and it takes a really really specialized, very sense of detector to see any of them.

All right, So tell us about that. What's on the other side in South Dakota in that mine. Is it like a big detector or a little detector? What's there?

All right, So tell us about that. What's on the other side in South Dakota in that mine. Is it like a big detector or a little detector? What's there?

It's ridiculously big detector, right, because to see neutrinos you have to have something very very col because neutrinos are really shy. They hardly ever interact with the detector and they're very light. So when they do interact, all they do is they like bounce off a nucleus, maybe kick off an electron or so. But that happens all the time. Like if you just look for electrons being kicked off of nuclei, you would see it all the time around you from cosmic rays and from other processes. So to see it from neutrinos, you have to get a very quiet environment where nothing else is happening, and then listen for these little buzzes from the electrons, and you want to see it as often as you can, so you get a really big volume. So what they have is like basically a big bath of very cold liquid. They use liquid argon. Argon is a noble gas that doesn't interact very much. It's very quiet, and if you chill it down to like minus one hundred and eighty six celsius, it turns into a liquid And they have these enormous containers of this liquid argon just sitting there waiting for neutrinos to fly through them.

It's ridiculously big detector, right, because to see neutrinos you have to have something very very col because neutrinos are really shy. They hardly ever interact with the detector and they're very light. So when they do interact, all they do is they like bounce off a nucleus, maybe kick off an electron or so. But that happens all the time. Like if you just look for electrons being kicked off of nuclei, you would see it all the time around you from cosmic rays and from other processes. So to see it from neutrinos, you have to get a very quiet environment where nothing else is happening, and then listen for these little buzzes from the electrons, and you want to see it as often as you can, so you get a really big volume. So what they have is like basically a big bath of very cold liquid. They use liquid argon. Argon is a noble gas that doesn't interact very much. It's very quiet, and if you chill it down to like minus one hundred and eighty six celsius, it turns into a liquid And they have these enormous containers of this liquid argon just sitting there waiting for neutrinos to fly through them.

Interesting and when they fly through, do they create like a ping or like an image because they used to measure these with images, right like you might see the trail of bubbles that the particles make. But I'm guessing these don't use them.

Interesting and when they fly through, do they create like a ping or like an image because they used to measure these with images, right like you might see the trail of bubbles that the particles make. But I'm guessing these don't use them.

These use a very cool new technology. Older neutrino experiments like the ones in Japan may have seen those. They're like a huge cylinder of water surrounded essentially by cameras photo multiplier tubes, and those use Cherenkov light, like a neutrino comes in and turns into a muon, which gives off this cone of light that's then imaged on the side of the detector. These are even fancier because there's an electric field that's put through the liquid argon, so when the trino comes in, it actually can kick off a bunch of electrons and you can get the whole trail of the neutrino. You can get like a track of the neutrino because you can pull off those electrons from deep inside this detector. The electric field like sucks out any of these electrons and registers of them sort of on the side, so it's.

These use a very cool new technology. Older neutrino experiments like the ones in Japan may have seen those. They're like a huge cylinder of water surrounded essentially by cameras photo multiplier tubes, and those use Cherenkov light, like a neutrino comes in and turns into a muon, which gives off this cone of light that's then imaged on the side of the detector. These are even fancier because there's an electric field that's put through the liquid argon, so when the trino comes in, it actually can kick off a bunch of electrons and you can get the whole trail of the neutrino. You can get like a track of the neutrino because you can pull off those electrons from deep inside this detector. The electric field like sucks out any of these electrons and registers of them sort of on the side, so it's.

Like single electrons, single electrons exactly. Yeah, And so it has to be very quiet and very clean, but it also has to be really big, and so experimentally that's a big challenge, right, Like you can build something small that performs really well, but to scale it up is really difficult. And these tanks have ten kilo tons of liquid argon, like, these are not small devices.

Like single electrons, single electrons exactly. Yeah, And so it has to be very quiet and very clean, but it also has to be really big, and so experimentally that's a big challenge, right, Like you can build something small that performs really well, but to scale it up is really difficult. And these tanks have ten kilo tons of liquid argon, like, these are not small devices.

Well, I guess my question is why shoot them through the earth. Wouldn't that you know, kind of corrupt signal or you know, dampen the signal. Why not shoot them kind of straight into a detector.

Well, I guess my question is why shoot them through the earth. Wouldn't that you know, kind of corrupt signal or you know, dampen the signal. Why not shoot them kind of straight into a detector.

Well they do that also, so they have detector immediately after the neutrinos are produced to sort of sample the beam there, like, well, what did we make did we make mostly electro neutrinos, do we make mostly mule on neutrinos, et cetera. But then you also want to see them change, and that's really the question we're asking, it's like, do we understand how neutrinos change from one kind into another? That's the thing that's going to help us connect to this question of antimatter and the deeper questions of the universe, and even you know, maybe understand some things about exploding stars in far away go. The key is to understand how the nutrinos change from when they're created to further down the road. So you want to sort of corrupt them. You want them to interact, to change in flight, to do the things they're going to do, the weird stuff they can do, so then you can catch them having done it down the road.

Well they do that also, so they have detector immediately after the neutrinos are produced to sort of sample the beam there, like, well, what did we make did we make mostly electro neutrinos, do we make mostly mule on neutrinos, et cetera. But then you also want to see them change, and that's really the question we're asking, it's like, do we understand how neutrinos change from one kind into another? That's the thing that's going to help us connect to this question of antimatter and the deeper questions of the universe, and even you know, maybe understand some things about exploding stars in far away go. The key is to understand how the nutrinos change from when they're created to further down the road. So you want to sort of corrupt them. You want them to interact, to change in flight, to do the things they're going to do, the weird stuff they can do, so then you can catch them having done it down the road.

But why don't you want to clear line of sight? Why would you want it to go through rock? Wouldn't that you know, give you a lot of things that could have happened or unexplained phenomena along the way.

But why don't you want to clear line of sight? Why would you want it to go through rock? Wouldn't that you know, give you a lot of things that could have happened or unexplained phenomena along the way.

Well, if you discover that somebody's, for example, build a bunker all the way down to the center of the earth, that could really like corrupt your measurements with all their cascading tools and banana plantations and stuff.

Well, if you discover that somebody's, for example, build a bunker all the way down to the center of the earth, that could really like corrupt your measurements with all their cascading tools and banana plantations and stuff.

Yeah, what if a giant sandworm like wats right into the beam that I want to be.

Yeah, what if a giant sandworm like wats right into the beam that I want to be.

Good The first thing is you want all that earth there to filter out all the other particles. You need to get rid of all the muons and the chaons and all the other stuff, so you have a pure neutrino beams. So you need the earth there for that also. But then you want it to interact, and you might be thinking, well, usually particle physicists, they like things to be simple, like let's interact with a block of graphite or a perfect cube of argon or something, right, and rock and dust and rebels. Seems sort of messy, But we're not very sensitive to the details of like is it, you know, marble or is it graphight, or is it dense or is it loose because we're integrating over like thirteen hundred miles of stuff, and so we're not very sensitive to like exactly what happens where. We're not going to get like a picture of the center of the Earth. We just want the neutrinos to do something and have to pass through matter in order for that interesting thing.

Good The first thing is you want all that earth there to filter out all the other particles. You need to get rid of all the muons and the chaons and all the other stuff, so you have a pure neutrino beams. So you need the earth there for that also. But then you want it to interact, and you might be thinking, well, usually particle physicists, they like things to be simple, like let's interact with a block of graphite or a perfect cube of argon or something, right, and rock and dust and rebels. Seems sort of messy, But we're not very sensitive to the details of like is it, you know, marble or is it graphight, or is it dense or is it loose because we're integrating over like thirteen hundred miles of stuff, and so we're not very sensitive to like exactly what happens where. We're not going to get like a picture of the center of the Earth. We just want the neutrinos to do something and have to pass through matter in order for that interesting thing.

All right, well, I guess the question is what are we going to learn from this experiment? And how does this how do you relate neutrinas to matter and antimatter because I guess, you know, you hear the word nutrino, you think they're neutral, they don't care, but maybe they do care, and maybe they had a lot to do with the fact that we have matter.

All right, well, I guess the question is what are we going to learn from this experiment? And how does this how do you relate neutrinas to matter and antimatter because I guess, you know, you hear the word nutrino, you think they're neutral, they don't care, but maybe they do care, and maybe they had a lot to do with the fact that we have matter.

Yeah, well, this is this deep question, right, like why is there matter not antimatter? And we think that in the beginning of the universe. We suspect that matter and antimatter were made at the same rate. We don't know why it would be anything different. That's just an assumption, like it could be at the very beginning of the universe there was just more matter made than antimatter for some weird, other deep reason we don't understand. But we assume, because we like to make simple assumptions, that it was made in a symmetric way, and that something exists that can turn matter into antimatter. There's some process, something that prefers to create matter over antimatter.

Yeah, well, this is this deep question, right, like why is there matter not antimatter? And we think that in the beginning of the universe. We suspect that matter and antimatter were made at the same rate. We don't know why it would be anything different. That's just an assumption, like it could be at the very beginning of the universe there was just more matter made than antimatter for some weird, other deep reason we don't understand. But we assume, because we like to make simple assumptions, that it was made in a symmetric way, and that something exists that can turn matter into antimatter. There's some process, something that prefers to create matter over antimatter.

Because I guess in the equations that we have now, there's nothing in them that says, oh, obviously matter is more likely to be made. There's nothing like the equations. They're totally equal, just oppositely.

Because I guess in the equations that we have now, there's nothing in them that says, oh, obviously matter is more likely to be made. There's nothing like the equations. They're totally equal, just oppositely.

They're not one hundred percent equal. Like for a long time we thought they're totally equal. Obviously things have to be symmetric, and there's this principal charge conservation that says, if you see a process in nature, you should be able to flip all the charges, all the particles to antip particles and see exactly the same thing happen. It should be exactly the same. But then we discovered that didn't actually hold true, that that's not really true, that there are some asymmetry. Interesting for example, the weak nuclear force. This rule, and especially when you combine it with this other rule about putting things in the mirror, so together it's called CP violation, charge and parody. You flip the charges of something and you put it in the mirror, you should see the same effect, but you don't. Often we have a whole podcast episode digging into discovery CP violation. But this CP violation, it does give you a reason to have more matter than antimatter, but not nearly enough. It explains it by like one percent of it. So there are some asymmetries. The equation do predict that you'd get more matter than antimatter, but it's not big enough to explain what we see.

They're not one hundred percent equal. Like for a long time we thought they're totally equal. Obviously things have to be symmetric, and there's this principal charge conservation that says, if you see a process in nature, you should be able to flip all the charges, all the particles to antip particles and see exactly the same thing happen. It should be exactly the same. But then we discovered that didn't actually hold true, that that's not really true, that there are some asymmetry. Interesting for example, the weak nuclear force. This rule, and especially when you combine it with this other rule about putting things in the mirror, so together it's called CP violation, charge and parody. You flip the charges of something and you put it in the mirror, you should see the same effect, but you don't. Often we have a whole podcast episode digging into discovery CP violation. But this CP violation, it does give you a reason to have more matter than antimatter, but not nearly enough. It explains it by like one percent of it. So there are some asymmetries. The equation do predict that you'd get more matter than antimatter, but it's not big enough to explain what we see.

Interesting, what does that mean? Like the violation means that it's one percent more likely to get matter than antimatter from like a random, you know, explosion of energy.

Interesting, what does that mean? Like the violation means that it's one percent more likely to get matter than antimatter from like a random, you know, explosion of energy.

We've calculated how much imbalance you need between matter and antimatter in order to get the universe we have now. Right, if they're exactly matched, then you get no matter left or antimatter left over in the universe because all annihilate into nothing. You need some process which will create matter more often than antimatter in order to get extra matter left over. So when all the annihilation happens, you have matter, which is the universe that we have now. And so we've calculated, like how much of that do you need to happen? And we can explain about one percent of that process. So it's not like any given particle has a one percent chance of turning into antimatter. But we're looking for a way a channel for this to happen, and we found a few, but they're really small. They'd explain just like one percent of what we need to explain the universe we see. So there's a big missing process. Something out there really prefers turning antimatter into matter rather than matter into antimatter, and we don't know what it is, and maybe it's new trinos something dumb.

We've calculated how much imbalance you need between matter and antimatter in order to get the universe we have now. Right, if they're exactly matched, then you get no matter left or antimatter left over in the universe because all annihilate into nothing. You need some process which will create matter more often than antimatter in order to get extra matter left over. So when all the annihilation happens, you have matter, which is the universe that we have now. And so we've calculated, like how much of that do you need to happen? And we can explain about one percent of that process. So it's not like any given particle has a one percent chance of turning into antimatter. But we're looking for a way a channel for this to happen, and we found a few, but they're really small. They'd explain just like one percent of what we need to explain the universe we see. So there's a big missing process. Something out there really prefers turning antimatter into matter rather than matter into antimatter, and we don't know what it is, and maybe it's new trinos something dumb.

Well, so then the idea is that like matter turns into antimatter, but not symmetrically. Is that kind of what you just said.

Well, so then the idea is that like matter turns into antimatter, but not symmetrically. Is that kind of what you just said.

Yeah, exactly. So you have these processes where matter can turn into antimatter and antimatter can turn into matter. Most of the time it's symmetrics, so stuff just slashes back and forth and you don't overall change the balance. But there are a few things that preferentially produce matter, that prefer to go from antimatter to matter, and we've seen it.

Yeah, exactly. So you have these processes where matter can turn into antimatter and antimatter can turn into matter. Most of the time it's symmetrics, so stuff just slashes back and forth and you don't overall change the balance. But there are a few things that preferentially produce matter, that prefer to go from antimatter to matter, and we've seen it.

And then they they don't go back as easily.

And then they they don't go back as easily.

I guess exactly. They don't go back as easily, so you don't get an equilibrium, and you gradually build up an excess of matter. But they don't explain what we've seen. You need more processes. We're looking for the rest of them. We've seen CP violation with these processes that produce more matter than antimatter. We've seen it in chaons, we've seen it in b masons. But those are very very small. They're like not big enough. It's like we're panting for gold and we know there's a lot of gold in the stream, but we just keep getting dust, and we know that there are big nuggets out there, all right.

I guess exactly. They don't go back as easily, so you don't get an equilibrium, and you gradually build up an excess of matter. But they don't explain what we've seen. You need more processes. We're looking for the rest of them. We've seen CP violation with these processes that produce more matter than antimatter. We've seen it in chaons, we've seen it in b masons. But those are very very small. They're like not big enough. It's like we're panting for gold and we know there's a lot of gold in the stream, but we just keep getting dust, and we know that there are big nuggets out there, all right.

Then, so is the picture then that you know, we had the Big Bang and a whole bunch of both matter and antimatter got made equally. But then over time, somehow everything flipped over to matter. Is that kind of the what we're looking for. That's the scenario we're trying to figure out.

Then, so is the picture then that you know, we had the Big Bang and a whole bunch of both matter and antimatter got made equally. But then over time, somehow everything flipped over to matter. Is that kind of the what we're looking for. That's the scenario we're trying to figure out.

Yeah, and not everything flipped over to matter, just like some fraction of it flipped over to matter, and then you had more matter than antimatter. But you know, the antimatter all annihilated with matter. But since you had more matter than antimatter, some matter was left.

Yeah, and not everything flipped over to matter, just like some fraction of it flipped over to matter, and then you had more matter than antimatter. But you know, the antimatter all annihilated with matter. But since you had more matter than antimatter, some matter was left.

All right, and that's where we came from. That's us.

All right, and that's where we came from. That's us.

We are the matter that's still here.

We are the matter that's still here.

All right. Well, let's get into then how neutrinos could explain this imbalance and also what it means for astrophysics. But first, let's take another quick break.

All right. Well, let's get into then how neutrinos could explain this imbalance and also what it means for astrophysics. But first, let's take another quick break.

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All right, Daniel, So how would neutrinos explain the fact that we have more matter than antimatter.

All right, Daniel, So how would neutrinos explain the fact that we have more matter than antimatter.

Well, there's so many open questions about neutrinos and antimatter, like, for example, as you said earlier, we don't even know if neutrinos are their own anti particle, or if there are two different particles there, Like is a neutrino and an anti neutrino different It's so hard to tell because neutrinos hardly ever interact. Like for a neutral particle, what does it mean to have an anti particle? It's like they're both charged zero.

Well, there's so many open questions about neutrinos and antimatter, like, for example, as you said earlier, we don't even know if neutrinos are their own anti particle, or if there are two different particles there, Like is a neutrino and an anti neutrino different It's so hard to tell because neutrinos hardly ever interact. Like for a neutral particle, what does it mean to have an anti particle? It's like they're both charged zero.

Right, electric charge zero, But they and neutrinos have other charges right exactly in terms of the quantum charges exactly.

Right, electric charge zero, But they and neutrinos have other charges right exactly in terms of the quantum charges exactly.