Spring is here and across the West. That means spring bear seasons are opening up. Why many people will be out there hunting them spot in stock. He can also be very effective at calling bears in. That's why today I brought on Douglas Bows, the author of the Ultimate Guide the Black Bear Hunting and the creator of the Ultimate Predator Calls Out. He's very well versed on everything black bear hunting, but today I brought him on here to talk specifically about calling bears. Welcome to the show, Doug, Thanks for having me, Jason's pleasure to be here. Thanks for being here. How's everything going? And uh in your life? And then give the listeners the two minute version to who is Douglas Bows before we get started. Everything in life is going well, thank you. UM. Just a little bit about myself. I was born and raised in Washington. I started and hunting at the age of twelve. Um, usually just deer on the weekends. Uh. And I didn't get into black bear hunting until my late twenties. UM. And you know I I my brother kind of got me into it and then I kind of branched out on my own. And UM, I'm basically just a middle class family man with a house and a kid and a couple of dogs. Um, much like the rest of you, and I just enjoy hunting, enjoy the outdoors, um, and like to share my knowledge with anyone who will listen. Yeah, well, we appreciate it. And can you tell us specifically kind of how you got you know, your your laser focused on you know, you do hunt everything, but you kind of became laser focused on black bears in in you know, specifically black bears. Yeah. So I got my first black bear kind of by chance. The way a lot of people get there, um, black bears that you know, they'll buy a tag just in case they see one deer hunting. And that's kind of what happened with me, is that I bought a tag and I was out deer hunting and I got dropped off and I was I was walking this ridge line and I happened to see a bear across this gully and I thought, oh, man, you know, there's there's a sweet color phase bear. And I took a shot and I dropped it and ended up killing it. And so then I called up my pop on the radio and I was like, hey, the shot of bear, you know, come get the truck and let's get this thing out of here. Thinking it was huge, and so I screwed down there, and you know, as a bear hunter, you'll come to know the term ground shrinkage. And I realized that it wasn't a huge black bear. It was, you know, an average It was a smaller bear. It was a sow, but it was a color phase with a beautiful coat. Um. And but that just kind of started the fuel for the fire that is bear hunting for me. Um. And so that started it. And then as you know, kind of time progressed. Well, let me just back up for just a second. That was really the first bear that I had seen in the wild. Um. I hadn't seen a bear before that, um, And so I wanted to learn more about how to spot bear, how to find them, what to look for, and stuff like that. So that really just kind of fuel that fire. I want to know more about them, how to hunt them. Um. There's such a cool animal. They demand such respect. Um. And so that's that's really where it started, was that first bear. Gotcha? Gotcha? So we're gonna roll right into the questions here, um, Doug, which we typically do well, We'll take a couple of user questions. I'll take a crack at it kind of my answer and then see if you have anything to add, and then we'll jump into that discussion where I'm gonna kind of ask you all the questions I have for you or kind of UM can relate to, and just see how you do things compared to the way we do things. So UM, the first question, and actually I'm gonna back up, I'm gonna let you know that if you want to submit your own questions to the podcast, you can email us here at c T D at Phelps game Calls dot com and we'll we'll scour the emails, UM try to pick out your good questions and then go ahead and answer them here on the podcast. But for today, UM, the first question is what predator calls do you carry? So for me, UM, it depends on the time of the year, but um, spring, UM, late spring, when you know the fawns and calves are starting to drop, Well, we'll carry a fawn in distress, will carry, um, you know, a calf call or a calf and distress call. And then just kind of your standard, um, you know, rabbit distress, we'll carry a cotton tail, will carry a jack rabbit. Um, I haven't got too much into it. We do have some you know, bear cub stuff I've been playing around with, but I've never went out, you know with bear cub um and you know try to target bears with those. Um. So that's kind of kind of a real quick and dirty answer. You know, both open read and close read is is what we kind of use. What do you use, Doug when you're you're out there? Just in general, and I'm sure we'll get into more bear specific stuff here in a little bit. Sure, In general, I I prefer clothes read. I have open read stuff. I usually have one of those in my pack. Um. The question is is kind of similar to what what does a fisherman carry? You know? It for me, um, predator calling is almost like an addiction. So if I see like a new call that I might not have, especially like a new hand call or something, I usually pick it up just for a different variants of of calls to have. But I usually always have like a call in my pack and a call around my neck, and I put the one in my pack in case I forget the one around my neck. And generally both of those are closed reads and usually it's like a rabbit squall or um. Just any sort of nasty, raspy sound that you can make that would that would pique the interest of the predators. So I mean, it could be a rabbit, it could be a fond distress. The very first time I ever called in a bear was actually with a h a calf um distress kind of call, or really just a calf mew. I was trying to call in a bowl elk um, and that was all I had on me, So that's what I was using. UM. So yeah, that I usually just have um like a rabbit distress, but both of them are closed reads. Usually. I think we can all agree that bear hunting maybe easier if you don't try to use a call. You may be able to correct me or have different experiences. But you know, if I was going out just trying to kill a bear, I would let my glass do the majority of the you know, walking, and I would do more spot in stock. But the question was what is the most important thing um when it comes to being a successful bear hunter. So let's take maybe calling out of the equation. Like if you just wanted to go out and kill a bear, what would you do and I would just you know, first you have to be in the area with bear. So for us around here in industrial Timberlands or if I'm in the high country, is like follow their food source at that time of the year, whether they're pilling trees, whether they're in jack for patches, whether they've got you know, berries are on that time, or whatever it is. Is getting the area where those bear like to be, and then just spend a whole bunch of time glassing. Um. If you think you've sat there long enough, sit there for an extra thirty minutes, um, and and just let your glassing, you know, do do the majority of the work. Because we've we've been on many, many bears, especially here in western Washington where the cover is so thick you can't see you know, everything you need to see, and that bear can be sitting there for thirty minutes, you know, peeling a tree, um, chewing on the same berry bush, whatever it may be. And so we've just found patients, which I'm not great at, but that's probably the most important thing aside, you know, taking calling out of the mix. Has just spent a lot of time in the bears area, um, doing a lot of glassing and so your answer to that is basically patients and glassing. Is that correct? Yeah, yeah, that's what if we're not talking about calling. Sure, no, and you kind of stold my stold one of my tips. So you know I wrote down patients and persistence, um, and they kind of go hand in hand. Um. But you know, like the number one saying that you'll hear, especially from the beginning bear hunters is find the food, you'll find the bears. And yes and no, that's kind of true, and we can get into that more later. But I really encourage people to have patients when they're hunting bears and be persistent in And the reason I say that is like sometimes people they'll they'll predator call or they'll say, hey, you know, I predator called for twenty minute, it's nothing showed up, so I gave up. Or I've predator called for half an hour three times and nothing happened. Well, you're losing patience with yourself. You might not have seen anything come in, but something might have came in you just didn't see it. Um. And so I just encourage people with patients. And then the persistence aspect is you know you will hear somebody oh, I shot a bear and um, I lost the blood trail or you know there there wasn't much blood and so you know I I looked for three hours and then I didn't find nothing. Well, I encourage people, especially with bear, to have persistence in tracking um because the hair and the fat of a bear kind of clog up that entry and exit wound. And it's not uncommon for bear not to bleed a ton because they have such you know, thick coats on um. They're not like a deer elk that have a very form fitting um height. And so persistence, be persistent with it, don't give up. So let's jump into the discussion here, uh, Doug. So we've got a lot of similarities between you know, the old ways that we used to hunt bears or the old way I used to hunt bear where I would get up on a landing, get up in the high country, sit down on a very very good, you know, um glassy knob and just let your glass do all the work. Whereas if we're going to turn this into we want to go out and specifically target a bear with our calls. Um, there's gonna be a lot of similarities, but there are gonna be some differences. And then that's really what I want to dive into here with with you today during this conversation. So you know, calling bears you can you can do it anywhere from the spring seasons, um, all the way through fall seasons. And one of the things I want to really hit on is knowing where to be at that time. And so in my opinion, UM, that is determined by the food sources. UM. So you can you tell me a little bit about like how you focus on food sources, what you're looking for as far as you know, like old sap trees, um. You know the berries are on you know, calving and fawn time, like they switched to a meat diet and then they switch back to a berries. You know, if you're in eastern Washington, you they may be in the onions or the sunflowers. Like go into a little bit of how if you're going to call for a bear, how you start to think about their food sources and how that helps you determine like where you're gonna be sure, no problem. So you know that that kind of goes back to, UM, find the food, find the bears. And so in the springtime, let's just start at the beginning of the season. In the springtime, the first thing to kind of come available for them to eat is grass, sea areas, UM. You know, like old logging roads, UM, southern face and slopes, stuff that gets a lot of sun and some water. So I focus on fresh shoots of green grass. And then from there um usually like skunk cabbage will start to show up. And as the as the kind of progresses that sugary sap the cambium layer in trees that will start to come up, and then the bears will start to peel those UM. And so in the spring I'm looking for that that early food source and a good key to finding those food sources, especially in in areas with uh five to ten to fifteen year old trees. When I say trees that they're peeling, make a sea out of each of your hands like the letter C and then put them together. And that's about the size of the tree that they start to peel. And then you bring that those that see apart in your hands a couple of inches. You know, it's it's about that size. UM. They're not huge trees or younger trees, and what they do is they'll they'll peel those trees, and they eat that cambium layer because it's a sugary substance that is an early food source. And so in your hikes, say you're shed hunting or or fishing, whatever it might be, as you're wandering around the woods, keep an eye out for hillsides that have like dead red trees or dying yellow trees, or um trees that are obviously peeled. And you can see examples of this online or in my book or wherever it may be. But they peel that right down to the ground. And what that does is not every time, but lots of times, it will kill that tree. And I've seen bears strip you know, seven eight trees within an hour, and so you can imagine the damage that several bear um can do to a timber stand. Um through the course of a month or two. Will they're doing that um. But the that that yellow in that red colouration that I'm talking about in the trees, that should be kind of a clue to hey, there was a spring bearing here tearing things up, um, you know, the year before or the year prior, so, maybe a couple of years back. So that's that's a point to start um. And so in the spring. That's kind of where I start. And then once I kind of find food sources, I'm looking for sign. I'm looking for scatt I'm looking for tracks in the mud, like any time I walked by a mud puddle or something like that, I'm looking for tracks. Um. And once I find sign, and hopefully not a lot of people, because that's another key. Lots of times bears don't, you know, they don't like to be around a lot of people. So if I can find areas it's kind of secluded that was not much hunting pressure, that's that's what I'm looking for. Um. So yeah, that's that's kind of how I start to look for it. Now do you want me to go into fall there real quick too? Yeah, we can't. I'm just gonna touch on, um, the jack for the thing that you had mentioned. Those you know, those young trees which you know I refer to as like jack for patches there you know, anywhere from ten to maybe twenty years old. Um. You know, we do a lot of that when we're when we're looking at elk crabs, you know. And so if you're looking across a jack for um, you know, a grown up jack for patch and you've got you know, trees that are dead with no needles. That bear was probably there two years ago, um, potentially red needles. You can you know, assume that it was last year, potentially two years ago. Yellow is last year, and then you know green is obviously still alive. And so you can start to put together a little bit of a pattern, like, all right, there of ben bears here for obviously more than three years. They're using the area. It's probably got a high density. It's probably a good spot to focus your time if you're trying to bear hunt, you know, spring or fall. Um. So I just wanted to kind of add to that, like you can put together a pretty good timeline, like you know, the number of bears that are in the area, plus if they've been there within the last two or three years. Yeah, and usually you know, usually if they're there in one spring, they were there a couple of springs prior, or they'll be there a couple of springs after, provided not a whole lot of change because those trees are going to remain that kind of same size for the next you know, several years, and so that can be a good spot to go back to. And you know, I've mentioned it before on another podcast, but there's a lake right by where I live, and there's there's a hill outside the lake, and you can actually see, like now, they're they're completely dead. But when I moved here, they were yellow and then they turned red. But you could almost follow the path of the bear from the bridge line all the way down to the lake where he's stripped the trees. You know, It's just it's interesting to watch. But yeah, just be aware of that. And even when I'm driving, Man, I'm driving around looking at if I see red flashes of a dead tree or something on a hillside, I'll stop and take notice, or I'll get out and check to see if if that's what caused the death of that tree. Gotcha, Yeah, And then let's let's dive in a little bit how the food source changes from that early spring, you know, the bright green grasses, the new shoots, the bark um of the trees, and then we start to roll into a little bit of you know that mid to late spring early summer where they will at least the black beers in this area switch their diet to fawns and calves um. And then we'll roll into like the berries and stuff that we start to focus on huckleberries and you know low blow blackberries, blueberries and stuff, you know, moving more into the fall. Yeah, so you know it's sometimes food sources can change by the month, by or even by the week, and sometimes uh, in the late fall, almost by the day. Um. You know, so as things progress, as things heat up, everything starts to become green, and that gets more and more difficult to be able to focus on a food source as to where that bear could be. UM. So when everything is kind of greened up like that, that's where they really kind of focus on stripping those trees. And so that's where I look for and they'll do that for like a month, month and a half maybe even to um be stripping those trees for a bit. So that's when I kind of focus on that especially. And then by then you're also kind of getting into calving season, like you said, um, And so that's that's a nice time to predator call if you're up to it. Um. And then you know, shortly after that berries will start to show up. Um. It's not you know, not long that the salmon berries start to pop in. Huckle Berries will start to get ripe, shortly thereafter and so but and then you know in in early fall, in like August, there's food everywhere, and that can make it kind of difficult to focus on all right where or the bear hanging out because there's brush and there's berries and and stuff everywhere. And then as as August progresses, you know, different type of berries come in. And so I almost related lots of times too, um like a like a like a half pipe for a for a skateboard. You know, at the at the very bottom, you've got food that's starting to grow. Um. And then as as things progress, more and more food comes out. And then as as fall gets later and later into winter, then that food just kind of drops back down. With early fall, you definitely want to focus on on berries on um, cooler areas because the temperature is going to be warmer, the bearer getting warm, um, they're gonna want to be in those cool creek draws. Um. And and and I usually focus my hunt's my hunt times in the in the mornings and in the evenings. UM. But you know, as as as fall progresses, UM, things can fade away. So salmon berries they kind of die out first. The huckleberries will kind of leave eventually and then real brushy blackberries they'll come in. So you you really need to spend time and it changes per area, changes per region, So you just spend time out in the woods wherever you live and and figure out what's ripe and when it's ripe, because that will that will dictate where you should be hunting bears. Because I might not be hunting bears in in spring peel damage tree stands in the summer because there might not be necessarily a ton of berries in that specific area. I might be in a completely different area. So the bear, you know, they they roam where the food is, and that's what you need to do. Don't get stuck focusing on well they're here in the spring, they've got to be here now, that's not necessarily true. Or they're here in the fall and they got to be here now that's not necessarily true either. Yeah, yeah, I couldn't I couldn't agree more with that. You know, it's it's super cliche and and it you know, it sounds oversimplified, But you can't kill a bear if you're not hunting where the bears are at at that time. So you got to find that find fresh ion fresh scat um tracks, you know, lay eyes on them, and then you know, get to that level or that area or that food source. Really. Um, So what that that said you kind of already alluded to. My next question for you is that bears become fool or satiated differently at different times of the year. And with that in mind, are there better times the call bears versus times that it's going to be very difficult to call bears based on what they're you know, their fuel gauge is telling them, um, and how much you're able to eat. I like to call bears when there's less food around, so in early spring and then in later fall. But that doesn't mean it won't work when there's plenty of food around. For example, I've i've predator called bears before where I had one coming in, you know, like on a string, and then he ran into a big pile of huckleberries and he could care less about me or am I squalling and whatsoever. He just sat there eating huckleberries like the rest of the time. And I was like, all right, whatever, that's that's cool. Um. But then again, last year I was predator calling in mid August and there was blackberries all over the place, and I had a bear come in right at forty five minutes at twenty yards and that's the bear I took that year. So in general, if there's less food around, they're more likely to come to a call in my opinion. Now that can change, you know. I think as as you hunt bear, you'll realize that bear I wouldn't say are individuals, but they have their own kind of personality or or individualistic traits. I guess some bear will come running into a call, some will sneak, you know, some are more aggressive than others. Um And so that really just kind of depends, you know. And I always say if if you're in an area that looks bearish, whether it be in the spring or the fall or whatever it may be. And when I say bearish, I mean it looks like it holds bear. You know, as a deer hunter, you can look at a valley or something to be like, man that looks like that holds holds some deer in there, or a bass fisherman. You know, if you see a submerged log in a lake, you're like, yeah, there's probably a bass under that log. If a place looks bearish to you, those are the type of places I like the predator call, even if you're not seeing something. A lot of the areas that we hunt, it's super brushy, like you know, it's it's twenty ft tall of brush. You can't really see what's going on. Predator calling allows you to knock things loose and hopefully see something come in the chance to have a shot. And so that's that's why I enjoy predator calling because you never know what's gonna come in, could be a coyote, podcat, cougar, bear or anything. Yeah. Yeah, And and we have did the majority of our spring hunting on the East Side, more specifically in the Blues Um where they've got such such an you know, uh an over abundance of food there in the Blues you know, in spring hits. And so we've always wondered. We have tried some sets, and we always carry our predator calls, but you know, it's it's really set up for spot and stock. But I wonder, you know, in those situations where they have so much grass and so much to eat early in spring as they follow that snow line up, Like I'd be curious to go back with an intent to call in a bear, like if you could actually even get them to pull off of the wild onions and and you know, the the sunflowers and whatnot, that they're just they they can never run out. They don't need to go chase or waste any energy chase in a deer or a calf around you know. Um. And so in those situations, we we've just you know, like the with the intent to kill a bear, we just have not picked up the caller or or you know, we've tried to maybe get one out, you know, a boar or a boar we wanted to kill out of like a thick brush patch. But the majority of the time, I think, even early spring, in those situations, they're just they're not super interested. I would agree that you know, the food might keep them locked down. How long are you calling for? You know, I grew up on the days where like it was the Wayne Carlton calling all bears, you know VHS state we would would pop it in it and that, and so he just said, sit for a long time, and when you think you're done calling, sit for another thirty minutes, you know. So I would say our normal sets or you know, an hour plus with a half hour away at the end before we get up and move. Um, you know, and I just maybe we can't see it, Steep. It's real broken country. I don't know if maybe stuff has come in, we haven't seen it. Um. All of my calling successes actually came in the fall when I'm trying to call Elkin and these you know, these black bears are looking for an easy meal. Um. So I've just always wondered, you know, like the food obviously affects. You're not gonna I don't think you're gonna call h a bear. That's you know, stuff to the gills into your feet. But at the same time, like you said, they are temperamental. And I was just kind of curious on you know, early green you know, in certain areas at the springtime, like it's still may be difficult to call. I think, I think it is difficult. I mean, it's difficult to call even when there's not a lot of fool around. But it's it's it can still be productive. Um. And so like for me, and especially over in the Blues or an area that is very large and broken but fairly open, like you can see quite a ways in the Blues compared to for example, Western Washington. For me, I will let the sound do the walk in for me. Um. You know, similar to what you're doing with glassing. I will predator call down into a draw or a rocky cavern you know, uh, rocky valley, anything like that where that sound can carry out and just see if I can break anything loose and then put glass on it. Um if I'm not seeing nothing, if it looks like in a to bear for me, um, And I'll do the same for Western Washington. Now, it might not always break something loose, UM, but again it's you're you wanna just peak their predator interest. And and so when when people first start calling really quick, this kind of pertains to that it doesn't have to sound perfect like with ELK kind of know, you know, you want to sound real natural. With ELK, I think you would probably tend to agree with that. And with Bear you're just trying to spark that predator interest, like what is making that noise? And can I kill and eat it? Um? And so a lot of new callers will come to me and be like, you know what, I sound horrible. I don't sound good, you know, I don't sound anything like a rabbit. Well, hey, man, don't worry about it. Like I predator called in bear in Alaska using a you know, a jack rabbit call, and there's not a jack rabbit within a thousand miles of there. So the point is is to peak their interest is um, and you know it. It's a it's a nice way to break up the possibility of being unsuccessful. So if you're sitting there and you're watching a canyon in your glass and glass and you're not seeing nothing, and you're thinking about packing up and leave, and we'll spend an hour there and and predator call and see if something's not hidden down in those crevices and whatnot, because they can be hidden down and you know, the easiest of spots that you would never think a bear was um. For example, I was bear hunting in the fall and I I hopped up in this power line cut um. You know, there was blackberries all over the place, and that wow, I'll just predator call into this tree line. And so I started predator calling and within five minutes there was a color phase bear within like forty yards of me. I had no idea that thing was even there. And if I wouldn't have called, the wind could have shifted. It could have smelled me. You know, I might not have ever known that bear was even there, So it can be very handy. Just a predator call. Yeah, we were over in the dayton um had a big, dark brown you know, bore probably had a thousand yards and we really didn't have you know, a little bit too far out of shooting distance for sure, and we didn't have many options. There was no way to get closer. Basically a solid wall uh uh, you know timber canyon between us and I hit uh, just a calf call that I had um on my binal harness, and that bear looked. We did another series and that thing literally came like bolting straight at us, and we picked him up a couple more times and the timber as he approached. We did sit there for another forty five minutes. The bear never showed, but at least it gave us hope, right because at that point you had no other option during that that spot and stock hum. But by having the predator call, we watched that bear break and literally sprint, you know, at least the first four yards directly at us, and then you ultimately he didn't show up. He got distracted somewhere across in the canyon. But it was just you know, the ability to add to our spot in stock Um where there was really no other option to be successful. Anyways, it's a handy tool and for you know, for me, like if I'm if I'm not seeing something, if I'm getting board, I'll definitely just break out the predator call. I don't want to care where I am. I'll break it out and just see what comes in. Yeah, let's talk about the setup specifically, so we figured out the area. We know there's bears in the area, Like what are you looking for as far as like where you're gonna sit down and where you're gonna you know, start your calling. I'm I'm gonna have to assume you know, similar to any other calling. You want good advantage, UM, you want to be able to shoot in multiple directions with this, uh, you know, a steady rest. But are you looking for this bear to come in you know, thirty or fort yards bow range? Are you you know, depending on the season and the weapon, Like you just trying to make sure that you have a really good shot when he comes in. Like what does your setup look like? Um? And then you base like the way that bears tend to come in, Like, do they have a tendency to come in certain ways and you're trying to account for that in your setup. Yes, So it depends on the territory. So for example, if I'm if I'm over in eastern Washington and I'm el hunting, um, that's a fairly open ish type of area, I can see a lot longer distance, and so my shot might be, you know, further than in western Washington. But for me, I want vantage, So I want like a good rocky outcropping, or I want a brush pile in in western Washington, usually like a stump pile I can climb up on and then tuck myself into. And that kind of serves us twofold one. You can see a little bit further throughout the brush and too, if you're on a stump pile with brush and whatnot, you're gonna hear if something's coming up behind you. Um, And so it serves as kind of a protection as well. Although I've never been jumped, but I've had bear and cougar close enough. Um. So I want to be elevated. I want the wind Ashley. So some people may think this is counterintuitive but I would prefer no wind, or very little wind or across wind. But if the wind is is blowing to my back, I want my shot lanes in that direction. I don't necessarily want the wind in my face. And the reason I say that, especially with calling, is that predators they'll they'll circle to try to get your wind. So if there's a predator in front of end the winds blown in your face, it might circle behind you. You might never even see it. Um, Lots lots of times predators they'll they'll get that down wind. So you want your shooting lanes to be down wind. And I get that information from the late grade. Well he's not late um, but the Mr Randy Anderson from calling all coyotes primos um. That's what he suggested, and that's kind of how I started off, um predator calling. So you want those shooting lanes down wind. If you have a shooting partner, kick him off to your side, left or right, but you know, for safety reasons, know where they're at. UM another guy available if your predator calling is very hand d because it's another set of eyes. And there has been numerous situations where I have been predator calling and totally thought. I didn't call anything in, and the guy to my left or right spotted it coming in because the bear was smart enough to stay hidden from me making my noise. Um. And I've taken bear that way. My brother killed a bear up in the snow. Um. I called to bear in and one came right behind me, like fifteen yards. I never saw it, and then another one up on a tree line further up behind me. My brother ended up taking that one, but both of those bears, I w I had no idea that I called him in if I didn't have a second shooter there. Yuh so yeah, so you want advantage point shooting lanes. And most of the time when I shoot a bear, it's well under a hundred yards, usually under fifty UM. A lot of my shots or twenty yards or less. And that's not necessarily on purpose, it's just kind of what happens. UM. A lot the areas I call into our our brushy. I like to call into that stuff because the bear are hidden. Um. But you have to call him in close to get a shot. Uh. Just last summer, I was preda to calling with my son and he was he was in front of me. I was on this uh stump that was like twelve ft in the air. So I was sitting on that thing calling the boy was in front of me, but we were in a brush are area to where we only had a couple of shooting lanes, not a lot, And I actually wanted to kick him off to my left. Um, but I wanted to keep an eye on him because he's still a new hunter and I want to make sure everything went good. Um, So I really just put him out in front of me. Anyway, I predator called and this this bear came into about twenty yards almost just to our left and started shaking a tree and getting all aggressive and stuff. But we unfortunately we couldn't get a shot just because there wasn't a shooting lane that way. Um. But you know, lots of times predator calling for me, they'll they'll come in under a hunter yards easy, sometimes fifties, sometimes closer. You know, last year I had several bear under twenty yards. Gotcha, gotcha. So let's get into the My favorite part of it is is what calls are you going to use? And then calling your cadence and then we touch on a little bit, but how long do you sit? How long do you call for and then how long do you wait from your last call before you change? Um sits? So like you, I kind of followed Mr Wayne Carlton, and that's that's what I've stuck with. It's Uh, there's DVD out there called They Come to Eat and he talks about predator calling bear and cougar and stuff, and so I like to call for about an hour and then I'll sit there for another twenty minutes or so, depending on if my butt is completely asleep and if my knees want to work. Um. So, the cadence, we'll start off with that. I got this from Randy Anderson. He always said, build, build a scenario in your head. And so you know, with with the cadens, I'll start out kind of quiet, and so that means that your sound isn't going super for it, but it's going out a little ways. And you don't want to necessarily start off like your full lung power, because you might blow animals out. But if you start off kind of quiet, that's pushing that sound out and that might draw them in. And then just as time progresses, you increase the the distress or the frequency or the crying and the volume of that. So as as time goes on, you increase that volume and the distress, and then right before you were gonna stop, I will either trail off like I'm dying real slow, and so I'll go back to being very very quiet, and then I'll just be quiet the rest of the time, or I'll just completely drop it off like I've died. So there's a couple of different scenarios. Um. Sometimes I will I will do like a fond distress, rabbit distress, whatever it may be, and I'll throw in a coyote yep or a coyote howl or a coyote distress with it. Um. I've had animals hang up with just a standard you know, rabbit call, and then I throw in that uh kyote distress, and you know, the breed comes barreling in because maybe he's heard standard rabbit calls before and got educated, but but that ky out whimper put him at ease and he wanted to come in and see what was going on. So switch it up a little bit. Um, sit there for an hour, do that, do that cadence like I was saying, And and as far as what calls I'm bringing, Um, you know, I reallyate this too. When car alarms first came out, then this kind of puts my age, you know, ages me or whatever. But when Carlin's first came out, when you heard one in a parking lot, you'd be like, oh man, there's car alarm, like someone's car is getting broken into. And then six months later, no one cared because everyone's car alarms were going off and everyone had already heard it. So if everyone in the world is blowing a rabbit distress or a cottontail distress, lots of predators are probably educated to that. Um, So switch it up. Try. You know, I actually went and bought just a couple of days ago, a um a coon squalor. So I'm gonna try to do some coon squall and for bear. Um, try different things. Try you know, a pig squeal, um, anything, goat distress, whatever you can think of that's different. That is a nasty sound that might get a predator coming in. Use that, I mean, I use rabbit calls. Don't get me wrong, But you know, like I said at the beginning, the first time I called a bear in it was with a calf call, and that was just kind of a you know, just kind of a lonely call, but it got that bear coming in. Um, so switch it up, don't don't be shy about trying something new as far as predator calls go. Yeah, And like I said, the majority of all of the bears that you know myself, for all my buddies have called in and killed, have just came in during elk season to a calf call or a cow call, you know, or or me me blowing both of those calls. And you know, they usually coming very slow. They're they're picking the ground apart. And you know the only reason I'm able to spot him if I wasn't paying at and they'd be very very tough to spot. Um. But you know they're coming in cautiously. But I'm looking for an elk to come in because usually if I'm actively calling, um, you know, but those bears are coming in you know typically you know, very slow, very cautious. Um. You know, I don't know. I try to like figure it out in my head. Why you know, if if there's a calf there, like, are they is something already there? Is there already another you know, a more dominant predator there? Um? You know, are they sneaking into this kind of U you know, assess the situation before they fully commit. But um, yeah, all of our all of our bears that we've killed um behind a call have come from you know, calf specifically, and that's because we're out there doing a different activity. The bears are just kind of a byproduct of calling for elk and and sitting after that you've called. So say you say you call for an hour and you're you're done calling, it is important to sit there for another ten fifteen, twenty minutes if you can. UM. And I give this information, but sometimes I don't follow it. And the last time I didn't follow it, I was l hunting, but I wasn't having much luck without so I went Predator called and then I've been there for like an hour. I was calling down into this rocky ravine UM and nothing came in. I'm like, all right, I'm gonna hike back. You know, it's like ten fifteen minutes to my truck, and it was kind of shaped like a U. I had to go around this little galie. So all the time I get to my truck and I started driving down the road, I can see a color phase bear barreling down like right toward where I had just called, And I think if I would have just sat there another ten minutes, because I didn't. I didn't sit around. I just called for an hour and then I left. If I would have just stayed there for that ten fifteen minutes, I could have had a shot at that bear. Um. And one other quick tip too, I forgot to mention, like when I first sit down and I'm I'm getting ready to predator call, I will take five ten minutes to let things kind of settle down around me. If I made a bunch of noise going in, and I will take the time to memorize as best I can features around me, um, stumps, brush, things like that. Um, so I know if it changes. You know, sometimes a barrel crawl up on top of a stump and look at you, and you know you in your mind you're looking for a bear on the ground. You might miss a bear standing on stump. Um. Another really good tip that I tell people too, is if you're predator calling and you hear birds or squirrels going nuts like a couple hundred yards out, and then a few minutes later into your call, more squirrels are going crazy, like closer you know, maybe a fifty seven yards closer, and then closer and then closer. Pay attention to that. Focus your viewing in that direction, because squirrels, like every deer hunter knows, sound alarms as you walk through the woods, and they'll do that with bear they'll do that with predators. And there's been numerous times where squirrels and birds have tipped me off, like, hey, that squirrel three yards out, he's not yelling at me, he's yelling at something that's right within his eyesight. And now a two yards squirrel is is barking. It's queueing you into that thing walking in. So pay attention to that. And that that bear that my I called in with my son that was shaking the tree at twenty yards. There were magpies and stuff going absolutely nuts at the tree line. Prior to that bear coming in. I said, hey, Hayden, there's there's something coming in that those those birds are tipping us off. And sure enough that thing came right in and those birds gave us the hint. So pay attention to that. That's an important tip. Yeah, that's a that's a great tip. Um specifically on calls, have you used bear cub very much? Or tried it, and I've always thought it could potentially, if done right or in the right area, would work really well because I think you could pull in both the boars and the cells. But I was just kind of curious, because you know, a bear cub in distress, those those boars are out there trying to kill those cubs so that the you know, the sal will come back in that year versus the sALS you know, having the motherly instink to come and check it out even if it maybe isn't there, cub. Have you ever had any success using bear cub you know squalls specifically, or that's that kind of annoise you kind of stay away from and just you stick to the rabbit and you know the other sounds. Wait, are you telling me that dad bears and mom bears and baby cubs don't live together in a nice little family unit. We'll save that, We'll save that, that that conversation for a different day. But yeah, I think a lot of people want us to think that that's how bear families are. But no, we we're gonna We're gonna stick to the fact that the you know, the bare dad wants to kill the bear baby so that he can procreate with the beare Mom. Okay, I was just clarifying. I had no idea that that's really what happened. I have a bear cub squall. Um, I don't really use it. Not to say that I'm against it. I just haven't. Um. I think I bought it last year or the year before, and so you know a lot of the calls I have their custom calls from like custom call makers, like they're made out of Elkhorn or or antler um, their honed or whatever, different different tunes to them. Um, I'm not against it, I just haven't used it. But I I really think they sound very similar to a lot of the calls I'm using. They might be a little more deeper, a little more throaty like the cub squall kind of is um yea, But yeah, I just I haven't used it. Got you, and I I've watched you know, tons and tons of YouTube videos of barcup distress and and I'm fully convinced that with most of my jack Rabbit um you know tunes and voices, that I can make the same thing just by changing the length of it. You know, you stretches that Barcup squall out a little bit and you're not so quick like the jack rabbit. And um, just something I was curious if if anybody's been using barcub you know, very very successfully. It just seems like some of the YouTube videos I've watched where you have both you know, the boars and the stals coming in. You know, a lot of times it's around bait um so you're able to like see all these bears interact to each other in very close proximity. But usually when that cub starts to squaw, you know, the every every bear and ear shot comes you know, relatively close. So it seems seems like in theory woud work. I just I've never went out there specifically and tried it. A couple other things that popped in my head too that I want to share with the audience is, um, you know, rabbit lungs are very small compared to a human set, and so if you're wailing on a call, I always tell people to try to make it, you know, sound realistic as best you can, but you know, it's really just to pique their interest. But you know, so do a do a short little you know, squall with it, they'll go, you know, don't use all that long power, because a rabbit is not going to have that. Um. And the other thing too, is is put heart into it. And when I say that, you know, make it sound hurt and lonely. Don't just blow on the thing with no sort of passion to it. Put a little quiver into your into your voice, into your throat when you're doing that, you know what I mean. Um. And then one other key thing too is like people are like, man, you call for an hour straight, Well, yeah, I'm sitting there for an hour, but I might call for you know, a minute or two, very steadily or pretty steady, and then I'll pause for thirty seconds to a minute. Now listen because most of the time I hear bear long before I see him. Um. And so I'll listen for for anything cracking, you know, branches breaking, any of that stuff. So it's not you're not blowing on that thing straight for an hour. There are pauses in it. Don't feel like you have to run yourself out of breath. UM. Tryer calling bear. Yeah. Um. And then you know, most states, well I don't want to say most, some states you can bait in. And one thing we've always found, even last year, I got to hunt behind um some dogs and the guy we hunted with didn't run baits, but he had mentioned like a lot of UM guys that are running you know, paid clients all the time. They're using you know, baits to kind of concentrate the bears and then you know they're running their dogs by the baits on the road, you know, to get those started. That's also another tip if if you're in an area where you can bait, um, it won't hurt to get the bears concentrated if you in fact want to go out there um and call one in, But it may be just as easy, especially if they're on a bait, just to sit sit over your bait. If your goal is just to kill a bear, you're probably gonna have better odds, you know, sitting the bait and and those bears are typically gonna be pretty full with you know, sugars and breads and whatever else are getting UM. Well, last thing, last point I wanted to touch on is, um, how often do you glass bearers and then moving to call them or are you not that picky? Is it not that important that you call in a bearrier? If you if you glass them and can shoot them like your work's done? Or how many times have you glass bearers went over to their hillside or made the move and then tried to call him? And then what can you say as far as like you know people that are gonna go out there and try it, like what is their success gonna be? UM doing that? Where they go in glass of bearr they no one's in the area. Um, it's it's obviously got to help their odds and calling in a bear, but like what are the chances that that goes goes in their face ever when they go over there to call it in? So last summer, last bear season, last fall, I had a particularly good call ratio. I was about um of me sitting down calling I would call bears in and normally I'm around UM that I see that I see bears. Now, lots of times you might be predator calling. You might not see something that comes in or might hang up um that type of thing. But those are my percentages as far as me visually seeing a bear, UM, depending on where it is, like if it's across the canyon or something, my my predator call to it to see if I can't get it closer, just because I don't want to have to hike it across the canyon. UM. You know, if if I can get closer to where it's a it's an easier pack out. I'm definitely gonna try that UM lots of times. If I see a bear, I will try to put a stock on it if it's open and like if it's in eastern Washington, if it's in western Washington, usually the brush is so thick um where I'm where I'm at that I might see a bear in a in a pocket across the gully. But you know, there's so many downfall or down logs and brush and everything else, it would be just counterintuitive to try to get down to it. So I'll try to predator call to it. UM that can be successful. The last couple of years I have been very choosy about the bears UM I would take. I haven't I prior to last year, I hadn't killed a bearon a couple of years. I've been involved in it, and my son got one in et cetera and so forth. But I'm specifically looking for a certain color UM and I took them one last year because the area I was in had so many freaking predators in it. There was all I had was bear and cougar all over my trail camera. I had a couple of deer. Um. But so I decided, if I see a bearon here, I'm taking it just just to ease pardators. Um. But you know, you get better at things the more you try it. And so if if a guy is is predator calling is not having a lot of luck, just just keep plugging away at it. Um, You'll get better, You'll learn more. UM. I would say personally, if you're a beginning bear hunter and you see a bear and it's in a stoppable position, I would try to stock it first. Um. If it is a lot of brush or a lot of stuff in the way that you think you're going to spook the bear or or whatnot, hop on that predator call. And like you said, that bear that broke lose a how a thousand yards or whatever it was and came Barrelyn towards you guys, that's a prime example of that call worked. Um. Now, you you might not have got a shot, but who's to say. You know, if if it was you and your buddy, you could be like, hey, I'm gonna stay here in predator call, you head down to that tree line and hopefully he'll get into that tree line try to come up to me. You know you can. You can formulate a plot against that that bear and try to get a shot. Um. I would just encourage, yeah, people just to carry one with him. It's just it's just an added tool that is very, very useful in certain situations. I'm gonna end it here with one last question, Dan doug Let us hear your your number one tip for new hunters out there, For new hunters, find food, find the bears, and for predator calling, give yourself time. So you got to think if your predator calling down into a valley, you gotta think how long it's gonna take for that bear and say it's on the far side of the valley, how long it's gonna take that bear to get from point A to you to point B. And I I forgot to mention this earlier, but it's a very important tip when calling. So when you're playing with a kitty a kitty cat and you are, you know, using the string, and the cats all interested while the strings moving and batting it around, and then you stop playing with that string and you just put it down, the cat loses interest. They are very very similar with the sound. That's why you want to keep the sound going as much as possible during the call set, because I have noted that bear really only walk or move lots of times, not every time, but lots of times. They will be moving while you're making that sound, and then when you stop blowing on the call, it will sit down or it will pause. And so think in your head, Hey, every time I'm calling, maybe that bear that's across the valley is walking towards me. You have to give it enough time to get to you. So that keys into the patients, I guess. But I guess number one is fine food, find bears, and be patient when calling. Yeah, perfect, perfect, Well, thank you very much for coming on the podcast, Doug, and good luck this spring and falling on your bear hunts and uh look forward to see how you do. Thank you, sir. I appreciate it. Oh, I'm just real quick. I just wanted to thank meat Eater as well for taking the time to put in that petition for spring bear for Washington hunters. I know that they didn't have to do that, but they did, and so I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, it was, Yeah, it was crazy times. But hopefully we can get that spring bear season back. I don't even I've been so busy lately I haven't uh um kept track. But by time this podcast comes out, I guess we'll know whether we have a spring bear season or not. Um. But well, thanks a lot Doug for joining us today. Really appreciate all your knowledge on you know, everything black bear hunting, especially when it comes to calling. And good luck out there this spring and fall bear hunting. Thank you, Jason. I appreciate the invite and I wish the best for all new predator callers. Good luck. Yeah, thank you. Have a good one. M