Crime Stories with Nancy Greece.

Crime Stories with Nancy Greece.

A gorgeous young mom goes missing, never seen again, coincidentally on New Year's Day. In the last hours in the search for Anna Walsh, a bone fragment emerges, not just a bone fragment, but the location of the bone fragment on a hacksaw, as we learn about the surreptitious hiring of a private investigators, as rumors swirl that Anna Walsh was having a sex affair, So what she gets the death penalty?

A gorgeous young mom goes missing, never seen again, coincidentally on New Year's Day. In the last hours in the search for Anna Walsh, a bone fragment emerges, not just a bone fragment, but the location of the bone fragment on a hacksaw, as we learn about the surreptitious hiring of a private investigators, as rumors swirl that Anna Walsh was having a sex affair, So what she gets the death penalty?

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Serious xem one eleven.

Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Serious xem one eleven.

It's not just a bone fragment.

It's not just a bone fragment.

A bone fragment, believe it or not, can be found under innocent circumstances, but a bone fragment on a hack saw as a whole another thing. Take a listen to our friends at NBC ten.

A bone fragment, believe it or not, can be found under innocent circumstances, but a bone fragment on a hack saw as a whole another thing. Take a listen to our friends at NBC ten.

He was also captured visiting dumpsters at apartment complexes. By the time detectives searched them, most of them had been emptied and the contents incinerated. But in Swampscott investigators found a number of items belonging to Anna, as well as some of the items mister Walsh had purchased.

He was also captured visiting dumpsters at apartment complexes. By the time detectives searched them, most of them had been emptied and the contents incinerated. But in Swampscott investigators found a number of items belonging to Anna, as well as some of the items mister Walsh had purchased.

The hacksaw that was had red brown staining in several areas. When it was disassembled, a small fragment of bone was recovered. The time ex suit had a red brown stain on the exterior. The stain was tested and Anna Walsh DNA was determined to be a contributor.

The hacksaw that was had red brown staining in several areas. When it was disassembled, a small fragment of bone was recovered. The time ex suit had a red brown stain on the exterior. The stain was tested and Anna Walsh DNA was determined to be a contributor.

Brian Walsh's defense attorney claims evidence testing so far has been inconclusive.

Brian Walsh's defense attorney claims evidence testing so far has been inconclusive.

Well, you can't rule them out, okay.

Well, you can't rule them out, okay.

If that bone fragment cannot be matched up to Anna Walch. If in fact the testing is inconclusive, then that means absolutely nothing in a court of law. You've got to get that DNA match up if it's possible, with me an all star panel to make sense of what we know right now. But first, I'm going to go out to forensic pathologist, medical examiner, and lucky for US detective author, a homicide investigation field guide. She became a household name during the Alex Murdin prosecution, doctor Michelle Duprie joining us. Doctor Dupree, thank you for being with us. Before we go to the breaking news reporter for The Washington Examiner, Rachel Shilkey, Doctor Duprie there's a lot of evidence found all over crime scenes and beyond. I remember sifting through evidence on a playground when I was prosecuting my first mass murder and I found, believe or not, on the playground, specifically around the Merry Go Round, a lot of ballistics evidence, and I was thrilled that I had caught something, found something that the cops had missed.

If that bone fragment cannot be matched up to Anna Walch. If in fact the testing is inconclusive, then that means absolutely nothing in a court of law. You've got to get that DNA match up if it's possible, with me an all star panel to make sense of what we know right now. But first, I'm going to go out to forensic pathologist, medical examiner, and lucky for US detective author, a homicide investigation field guide. She became a household name during the Alex Murdin prosecution, doctor Michelle Duprie joining us. Doctor Dupree, thank you for being with us. Before we go to the breaking news reporter for The Washington Examiner, Rachel Shilkey, Doctor Duprie there's a lot of evidence found all over crime scenes and beyond. I remember sifting through evidence on a playground when I was prosecuting my first mass murder and I found, believe or not, on the playground, specifically around the Merry Go Round, a lot of ballistics evidence, and I was thrilled that I had caught something, found something that the cops had missed.

Well, I didn't.

Well, I didn't.

I found bullets and cartridges, but they didn't match up to the known murder weapon.

I found bullets and cartridges, but they didn't match up to the known murder weapon.

They were in no way connected to my case.

They were in no way connected to my case.

So you find a bone fragment and a dumpster, that means nothing to me unless you can match it up to my case, right or wrong.

So you find a bone fragment and a dumpster, that means nothing to me unless you can match it up to my case, right or wrong.

That's right, Nancy. I mean you have to have something that tracks that piece of evidence back to the case that you're investigating. And if you don't have it, then you really don't have that as part of your case. So hopefully there will be something that will tie that bone fragment to the case, whether it's DNA, whether it's something like that, that would be great.

That's right, Nancy. I mean you have to have something that tracks that piece of evidence back to the case that you're investigating. And if you don't have it, then you really don't have that as part of your case. So hopefully there will be something that will tie that bone fragment to the case, whether it's DNA, whether it's something like that, that would be great.

I'm challenging everybody on the panel an innocent way of finding a bone fragment, Okay, Dodger in DPRI another case, I was investigating another homicide, was in a bar and teeth were found. Well, I know this sounds crazy, but I was thrilled because I thought it was going to be the teeth of my murder victim. Well it wasn't. Obviously, somebody else had been in a bar brawl and got a.

I'm challenging everybody on the panel an innocent way of finding a bone fragment, Okay, Dodger in DPRI another case, I was investigating another homicide, was in a bar and teeth were found. Well, I know this sounds crazy, but I was thrilled because I thought it was going to be the teeth of my murder victim. Well it wasn't. Obviously, somebody else had been in a bar brawl and got a.

Tooth knocked out. So an innocent in other words, not part of a murder case.

Tooth knocked out. So an innocent in other words, not part of a murder case.

Piece of evidence that you would think is tied to your case, and it's not. What is any innocent explanation a non nefarious explanation for a bone fragment being found in a dumpster?

Piece of evidence that you would think is tied to your case, and it's not. What is any innocent explanation a non nefarious explanation for a bone fragment being found in a dumpster?

That's to you, daughter dupre Nancy.

That's to you, daughter dupre Nancy.

There could be many, many, many reasons. I mean, it could be an ammal bone, It could be a bone from somebody at a butcher shop. It could be where someone accidentally cut their finger and part of the bone as well. There can be so many different explanations. And if it's in a dumpster, can you imagine the contamination? How do you narrow all of that down to just your victim and your crime?

There could be many, many, many reasons. I mean, it could be an ammal bone, It could be a bone from somebody at a butcher shop. It could be where someone accidentally cut their finger and part of the bone as well. There can be so many different explanations. And if it's in a dumpster, can you imagine the contamination? How do you narrow all of that down to just your victim and your crime?

Doctor, Michelle Dupree, isn't it true that even when DNA is contaminated, you can steal in some cases, isolate the contaminant from the DNA and still get DNA.

Doctor, Michelle Dupree, isn't it true that even when DNA is contaminated, you can steal in some cases, isolate the contaminant from the DNA and still get DNA.

I mean, you've got.

I mean, you've got.

Bodies that have been that are decomposing in water, underwater, in mud, in a rape cases, you've got multiple sperm donors in gang rapes.

Bodies that have been that are decomposing in water, underwater, in mud, in a rape cases, you've got multiple sperm donors in gang rapes.

I mean, none of these are pretty pictures.

I mean, none of these are pretty pictures.

But my point is DNA's contaminated all the time, but in many cases it can be isolated the contaminant and the relevant DNA.

But my point is DNA's contaminated all the time, but in many cases it can be isolated the contaminant and the relevant DNA.

Yes, No, absolutely, Nancy. And all we have to do is show that part of that DNA is from the person that we need it to be from. In this case, our victim.

Yes, No, absolutely, Nancy. And all we have to do is show that part of that DNA is from the person that we need it to be from. In this case, our victim.

That said, let's not put the cart before the horse, let me go to breaking these investigative reporter with the Washington Examiner, Rachel Shelkey, it's a real pleasure you want. Thank you for being with us today without any further ado. Have you seen, of course you have the picture of the dumpster.

That said, let's not put the cart before the horse, let me go to breaking these investigative reporter with the Washington Examiner, Rachel Shelkey, it's a real pleasure you want. Thank you for being with us today without any further ado. Have you seen, of course you have the picture of the dumpster.

Yes, I have.

Yes, I have.

Okay, here's a phenomena, and I can't wait to hear everybody else in the panelway in I'm sure doctor Bethany Marshall Payco analyst out of Beverly.

Okay, here's a phenomena, and I can't wait to hear everybody else in the panelway in I'm sure doctor Bethany Marshall Payco analyst out of Beverly.

Hills, where they have so many problems where a to shop today?

Hills, where they have so many problems where a to shop today?

You know, how Rachel Shulkey, A certain fact of a case can just put your stomach in a knot, and it may not be the evidence that you would guess. For instance, in my first carjack murder case, I saw this.

You know, how Rachel Shulkey, A certain fact of a case can just put your stomach in a knot, and it may not be the evidence that you would guess. For instance, in my first carjack murder case, I saw this.

Young man's body.

Young man's body.

Oh my goodness, Rachel, he was I think my victim was seventeen. He lived at home with his parents. He's an honor student. He came outside to get something out of the car, and the purp just comes along, seize the car, what's the car? And shoots my teen boy dead, my victim in that case, I mean, and okay, there was the autopsy, there was the crime scene, there was the blood, there was the family just in complete and utter pain.

Oh my goodness, Rachel, he was I think my victim was seventeen. He lived at home with his parents. He's an honor student. He came outside to get something out of the car, and the purp just comes along, seize the car, what's the car? And shoots my teen boy dead, my victim in that case, I mean, and okay, there was the autopsy, there was the crime scene, there was the blood, there was the family just in complete and utter pain.

But this is what got me, Rachel, she'll key.

But this is what got me, Rachel, she'll key.

The next door neighbor heard a shot, ran outside, saw the neighbor boy. I mean, he's seventeen, practically a man, but they all thought he was the boy next door, ran in, got a pillow off their bed, ran back out, and put his head on a pillow.

The next door neighbor heard a shot, ran outside, saw the neighbor boy. I mean, he's seventeen, practically a man, but they all thought he was the boy next door, ran in, got a pillow off their bed, ran back out, and put his head on a pillow.

He was dead or dying at that moment. He was dead.

He was dead or dying at that moment. He was dead.

But that act of trying to comfort the dead teen boy I remember. I'm still remembering it. The pathos of that moment. That's what's what got me. I mean, I can look dead bodies all day and all night long, no problem. But two Anna Walsh. This dumpster. Police found a slew of evidence regarding Anna Walsh's body, and the photo I'm looking at I found at the New York Post, but I'm sure it's the crime scene photo. I mean, this woman, Rachel Sheilkee, is so glamourus, so beautiful, this great mom to three.

But that act of trying to comfort the dead teen boy I remember. I'm still remembering it. The pathos of that moment. That's what's what got me. I mean, I can look dead bodies all day and all night long, no problem. But two Anna Walsh. This dumpster. Police found a slew of evidence regarding Anna Walsh's body, and the photo I'm looking at I found at the New York Post, but I'm sure it's the crime scene photo. I mean, this woman, Rachel Sheilkee, is so glamourus, so beautiful, this great mom to three.

Little boys, ages two, four, and six.

Little boys, ages two, four, and six.

And this is her parting photo, this crammed, full, nasty dumpster inside a chain link fence.

And this is her parting photo, this crammed, full, nasty dumpster inside a chain link fence.

It's just upsetting Rachel.

It's just upsetting Rachel.

It really is, and I think it also is probably just upsetting for her family and friends who maybe thought that she was actually going to come home and the fact that they had this beautiful light in their lives that represented so much to them, and then for them to find out that not only do they not know where her body is, but the only testament to this case at this moment where her almost quote unquote I guess last resting place is this dumpster just doesn't seem to do her justice.

It really is, and I think it also is probably just upsetting for her family and friends who maybe thought that she was actually going to come home and the fact that they had this beautiful light in their lives that represented so much to them, and then for them to find out that not only do they not know where her body is, but the only testament to this case at this moment where her almost quote unquote I guess last resting place is this dumpster just doesn't seem to do her justice.

To anybody, Guys, if you don't recognize Rachel Shilkey's voice, let me tell you she is a lead breaking news investigative reporter for the Washington examin Her Rachel tell me about the bone fragment found on a hack saw as I understand it, in this dumpster.

To anybody, Guys, if you don't recognize Rachel Shilkey's voice, let me tell you she is a lead breaking news investigative reporter for the Washington examin Her Rachel tell me about the bone fragment found on a hack saw as I understand it, in this dumpster.

I mean, it's kind of incredible the fact that you know, video evidence showed him, Brian Walsh, going to the store buying all these supplies, and to then see these supplies transfer into a dumpster, to have possibly blood and a possible bone fragment belonging to his wife on this tack saw. Just to see it, I think in front of you. I'm not an investigator, but to have an investigator see that and to recognize, okay, yes, this is a probably going to be a murder investigations. It must be incredibly terrible to be a part of that and to have to see that. And I just there's so many layers to this case, and I think the fact that you can transfer the video evidence directly to the hacksaw. Most likely there's other parts of this case that I'm sure are going to come out, but the fact that there is this bone fragment that you know, I think most people would want to speculate belongs to Anna Walsh.

I mean, it's kind of incredible the fact that you know, video evidence showed him, Brian Walsh, going to the store buying all these supplies, and to then see these supplies transfer into a dumpster, to have possibly blood and a possible bone fragment belonging to his wife on this tack saw. Just to see it, I think in front of you. I'm not an investigator, but to have an investigator see that and to recognize, okay, yes, this is a probably going to be a murder investigations. It must be incredibly terrible to be a part of that and to have to see that. And I just there's so many layers to this case, and I think the fact that you can transfer the video evidence directly to the hacksaw. Most likely there's other parts of this case that I'm sure are going to come out, but the fact that there is this bone fragment that you know, I think most people would want to speculate belongs to Anna Walsh.

Can you say that for sure?

Can you say that for sure?

No, not yet. But like the doctor was saying, if this is something that ends up being a DNA master, I think it can make this case go amazingly in the prosecutor's favor and drastically downhill for Brian Walsh.

No, not yet. But like the doctor was saying, if this is something that ends up being a DNA master, I think it can make this case go amazingly in the prosecutor's favor and drastically downhill for Brian Walsh.

You know you said something really interesting, Rachel Shulke. Don't sell yourself short, because I'm very familiar with your work, you said, and I'm not an investigator. Well, you are an investigator reporter, and I would venture to guess you're a better investigator than a lot of investigators I've seen.

You know you said something really interesting, Rachel Shulke. Don't sell yourself short, because I'm very familiar with your work, you said, and I'm not an investigator. Well, you are an investigator reporter, and I would venture to guess you're a better investigator than a lot of investigators I've seen.

He would drid buy this and go what what?

He would drid buy this and go what what?

That's an ump stir and it would mean nothing to them, But it means something to you, just like a piece of evidence out of place, like a bone fragment.

That's an ump stir and it would mean nothing to them, But it means something to you, just like a piece of evidence out of place, like a bone fragment.

Sure you heard doctor Michelle Duprey.

Sure you heard doctor Michelle Duprey.

I knew to go to her because she can tell you any circumstances where a bone fragment is found somewhere innocently.

I knew to go to her because she can tell you any circumstances where a bone fragment is found somewhere innocently.

Pause for a big thank you to our partner making today's program possible. It's Fox Nation and its brand new series, scam Preneur. Hey, do you love a good con artist story? Then you need to check out the new Fox Nation series scam Preneur. This series takes a deep dive into the outrageous lies and elaborate scams pulled off by three master manipulators, Elizabeth Holmes, Carrie Ferrell, and Anthony Gignuck. In episode one, meet the Silicon Valley swindler Elizabeth Holmes, who caused the world and wealthy investors into her wish full thinking will she pay the price for her crimes? Episode two learn about the hipster grifter Carrie Ferrell, who scammed her own family and friends out of thousands, but the police had a plan of their own. Episode three learn about the fake Saudi Prince Anthony Gignuk, who spent two decades committing low level grifts, but his next get rich quick scam turns out to be his biggest mistake. Through interviews with investigators, victims, and whistleblowers, Scampurnieur reveals how these con artists were captured and punished for their crimes. Don't miss this incredible series, Scampreneur, streaming now on Fox Nation.

Pause for a big thank you to our partner making today's program possible. It's Fox Nation and its brand new series, scam Preneur. Hey, do you love a good con artist story? Then you need to check out the new Fox Nation series scam Preneur. This series takes a deep dive into the outrageous lies and elaborate scams pulled off by three master manipulators, Elizabeth Holmes, Carrie Ferrell, and Anthony Gignuck. In episode one, meet the Silicon Valley swindler Elizabeth Holmes, who caused the world and wealthy investors into her wish full thinking will she pay the price for her crimes? Episode two learn about the hipster grifter Carrie Ferrell, who scammed her own family and friends out of thousands, but the police had a plan of their own. Episode three learn about the fake Saudi Prince Anthony Gignuk, who spent two decades committing low level grifts, but his next get rich quick scam turns out to be his biggest mistake. Through interviews with investigators, victims, and whistleblowers, Scampurnieur reveals how these con artists were captured and punished for their crimes. Don't miss this incredible series, Scampreneur, streaming now on Fox Nation.

Thanks Fox Nation.

Thanks Fox Nation.

For being our partner Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

For being our partner Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Let me go to Jessica Garth, she of the Special Victims and Family Violence Unit at Prince George's County. Jessica, thank you for being with us. A piece of evidence out of place. Let's talk about Lacy Peterson one moment. And I use Lacy Peterson so often because there's so much evidence in it that it can fit practically any comparison I want to make. Do you remember, Jessica Garth, when Lacy Peterson's hair, her beautiful long hair, was found not just on Scott Peterson's secret boat that he told nobody he was buying, that he happened to go fishing in on the day his wife's body she goes missing and is dumped at the body of water where he went fishing the day she's killed. Her hair is found like not just stuck to it, like you know, a cat hair on your shirt. But twy up in I think it was spliers, wasn't it, Jackie of Scott Peterson's It's not just out. It's not on her brush, it's not on her clothing. It's not on their bedspread or in her car. It's on his pliers at his work, at his office where he keeps the boat.

Let me go to Jessica Garth, she of the Special Victims and Family Violence Unit at Prince George's County. Jessica, thank you for being with us. A piece of evidence out of place. Let's talk about Lacy Peterson one moment. And I use Lacy Peterson so often because there's so much evidence in it that it can fit practically any comparison I want to make. Do you remember, Jessica Garth, when Lacy Peterson's hair, her beautiful long hair, was found not just on Scott Peterson's secret boat that he told nobody he was buying, that he happened to go fishing in on the day his wife's body she goes missing and is dumped at the body of water where he went fishing the day she's killed. Her hair is found like not just stuck to it, like you know, a cat hair on your shirt. But twy up in I think it was spliers, wasn't it, Jackie of Scott Peterson's It's not just out. It's not on her brush, it's not on her clothing. It's not on their bedspread or in her car. It's on his pliers at his work, at his office where he keeps the boat.

It's side of place. Or here's another good one.

It's side of place. Or here's another good one.

Jessica Garth Kelly Anthony, her mother top Mom Casey Anthony murdered her and her Kelly's hair was found in top Mom's car trunk. Now why would child's hair be in the car trunk? And you can come up with a lot of scenarios, but this is evidence that anywhere else wouldn't raise an eyebrow. But in these locations are significant, like this piece of bone on a hacksaw.

Jessica Garth Kelly Anthony, her mother top Mom Casey Anthony murdered her and her Kelly's hair was found in top Mom's car trunk. Now why would child's hair be in the car trunk? And you can come up with a lot of scenarios, but this is evidence that anywhere else wouldn't raise an eyebrow. But in these locations are significant, like this piece of bone on a hacksaw.

Absolutely, And you're talking about evidence a place, and really what it is is it's a puzzle any case like this where you don't have a body and you're having to rely on circumstantial evidence. Every little piece of evidence helps. So when you have a hacksaw right after your prime suspect has purchased a hacksaw, you know on film, hacksaw that has you know, the DNA of your victim on it, and then you find a bone fragment that certainly is strong circumstantial evidence that points to the fact that this hacksaw was used a foreigner farious purposes to dismember your victim, and that's why you've been unable to recover her body.

Absolutely, And you're talking about evidence a place, and really what it is is it's a puzzle any case like this where you don't have a body and you're having to rely on circumstantial evidence. Every little piece of evidence helps. So when you have a hacksaw right after your prime suspect has purchased a hacksaw, you know on film, hacksaw that has you know, the DNA of your victim on it, and then you find a bone fragment that certainly is strong circumstantial evidence that points to the fact that this hacksaw was used a foreigner farious purposes to dismember your victim, and that's why you've been unable to recover her body.

You said that so beautifully Jessica Garth. Okay, everybody, you better sit down. In fact, you may need to lay down for this. Doctor Bethany Marshall joining us. Renowned psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills. You can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Star of a Netflix hit, Bling Empire. Doctor Bethany, let me work up to this. Everybody pays jump in when you have an idea, Doctor Bethany. I will never forget before David and I got married, I was, of course in New York and he was in Atlanta. Of course, he travels all over the world doing his business. I wouldn't know more about it, but the emails are so boring. As you know, my eyes blood when I watched him. So I'm not sure.

You said that so beautifully Jessica Garth. Okay, everybody, you better sit down. In fact, you may need to lay down for this. Doctor Bethany Marshall joining us. Renowned psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills. You can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Star of a Netflix hit, Bling Empire. Doctor Bethany, let me work up to this. Everybody pays jump in when you have an idea, Doctor Bethany. I will never forget before David and I got married, I was, of course in New York and he was in Atlanta. Of course, he travels all over the world doing his business. I wouldn't know more about it, but the emails are so boring. As you know, my eyes blood when I watched him. So I'm not sure.

Exactly what he does, but it's really boring.

Exactly what he does, but it's really boring.

That said, there was a horrible snowstorm in Atlanta, so the cell phones have been.

That said, there was a horrible snowstorm in Atlanta, so the cell phones have been.

Out and I'm calling calling, Are you okay? I said, Hey, I got your on the phone. Where are you goes?

Out and I'm calling calling, Are you okay? I said, Hey, I got your on the phone. Where are you goes?

I just got back from buying a chainsaw. I'm like, for who, who's going to use a chainsaw? And he went to me, I'm going to clear off some trees. That fell in the front yard. I'm like, no, no, cash Cow is not cranking up a chainsaw and cutting off your fingers or your hand or something. You save those fingers for punching that calculator and emails and all the things you do.

I just got back from buying a chainsaw. I'm like, for who, who's going to use a chainsaw? And he went to me, I'm going to clear off some trees. That fell in the front yard. I'm like, no, no, cash Cow is not cranking up a chainsaw and cutting off your fingers or your hand or something. You save those fingers for punching that calculator and emails and all the things you do.

Forget about the trees. They don't matter.

Forget about the trees. They don't matter.

So I still remember him going finding out he went and bought a chainsaw, just you know, because that's not his thing. Yes, he can do home repairs and all that. But leads me to Brian Walsh, out of the blue goes and buys a hack saw. Now, the other day David went and did get a hacksaw. Why because helping my son and daughter on a scout project. I mean, that's not the kind of thing he would do on a daily basis.

So I still remember him going finding out he went and bought a chainsaw, just you know, because that's not his thing. Yes, he can do home repairs and all that. But leads me to Brian Walsh, out of the blue goes and buys a hack saw. Now, the other day David went and did get a hacksaw. Why because helping my son and daughter on a scout project. I mean, that's not the kind of thing he would do on a daily basis.

He's not a contractor.

He's not a contractor.

It doesn't build things typically, So out of the blue Brian Walsh, who was an art collector slash dealers, slash fraudulent art collector, remember all those Andy Warhol painting fraud he did. But Bethany, if I hear I'm gonna go buy a hack saw, Like, why why do you need a hacksaw?

It doesn't build things typically, So out of the blue Brian Walsh, who was an art collector slash dealers, slash fraudulent art collector, remember all those Andy Warhol painting fraud he did. But Bethany, if I hear I'm gonna go buy a hack saw, Like, why why do you need a hacksaw?

Help me?

Help me?

Help me figure out what I'm trying to say here, doctor Bethany.

Help me figure out what I'm trying to say here, doctor Bethany.

Okay, so not only the hacksaw, but when you look at those photos of him in the in the hardware store, he has a mop, he has other cleaning supplies, he has a bucket, and he looks like he owns uh a janitor company, because janitorial cleaning supply company. He has so much product in that part. And Nancy, he looks so nonchalant, as if he doesn't know that there are cameras all over the place. But I'm going to circle back to something you said about evidence like Lacy Peterson's hair being entwined impliers on Scott's boat, about Kaylee Anthony's hair being in the trunk of the mother's car, and how this is so out of place. But from a psychoanalytic perspective, I don't think it is out of place, because what ties all of these circumstances together is that the evidence is very close to where the purp lives. We know that most children who are murdered are discovered less than a third of a mile away from the parents' home. We know that criminals often camp out at their mother's homes, and we know that this dumpster where Anna Walsh's bone fragment was found on the hacksaw was very near Brian Walsh's mother's home. So if we look at the story behind the story behind the story, all of these perpetrators are really staying within close proximity of where they live, where they work, and I would think from a domestic violence perspective that this is where the homicidal, murderous thoughts and feelings fomented. I want to get rid of my daughter Kaylee because I want to go on a date. I'm going to slap duct tape.

Okay, so not only the hacksaw, but when you look at those photos of him in the in the hardware store, he has a mop, he has other cleaning supplies, he has a bucket, and he looks like he owns uh a janitor company, because janitorial cleaning supply company. He has so much product in that part. And Nancy, he looks so nonchalant, as if he doesn't know that there are cameras all over the place. But I'm going to circle back to something you said about evidence like Lacy Peterson's hair being entwined impliers on Scott's boat, about Kaylee Anthony's hair being in the trunk of the mother's car, and how this is so out of place. But from a psychoanalytic perspective, I don't think it is out of place, because what ties all of these circumstances together is that the evidence is very close to where the purp lives. We know that most children who are murdered are discovered less than a third of a mile away from the parents' home. We know that criminals often camp out at their mother's homes, and we know that this dumpster where Anna Walsh's bone fragment was found on the hacksaw was very near Brian Walsh's mother's home. So if we look at the story behind the story behind the story, all of these perpetrators are really staying within close proximity of where they live, where they work, and I would think from a domestic violence perspective that this is where the homicidal, murderous thoughts and feelings fomented. I want to get rid of my daughter Kaylee because I want to go on a date. I'm going to slap duct tape.

On her mouth.

On her mouth.

I'm going to shove in the trunk of my car. I'm pissed because I think my wife's having an affair. She has this huge life insurance policy. I want it all for myself. I'm sitting at my mother's kitchen table, foaming at the mouth, complaining about my wife getting her to hire a PI. And you know what, it's so close to home that once I murder my wife, I'm just going to put her in the dumpster next to my mother's house. So I think, from a psychological perspective, the proximity of the evidence to where these purps live, work, and fantasize about homicide is extremely important.

I'm going to shove in the trunk of my car. I'm pissed because I think my wife's having an affair. She has this huge life insurance policy. I want it all for myself. I'm sitting at my mother's kitchen table, foaming at the mouth, complaining about my wife getting her to hire a PI. And you know what, it's so close to home that once I murder my wife, I'm just going to put her in the dumpster next to my mother's house. So I think, from a psychological perspective, the proximity of the evidence to where these purps live, work, and fantasize about homicide is extremely important.

I'm just making note somewhat you're saying, doctor Bethany, I love giving you a hard time about working with your clients on rodeo drive and where are they going to shop today and blah blah blah. But you know what, doctor Bethany, you bring up so many incredible points and just so everybody knows, isn't this true? Jessica Garth, where's talking about.

I'm just making note somewhat you're saying, doctor Bethany, I love giving you a hard time about working with your clients on rodeo drive and where are they going to shop today and blah blah blah. But you know what, doctor Bethany, you bring up so many incredible points and just so everybody knows, isn't this true? Jessica Garth, where's talking about.

The bone fragment and what it means and what we can.

The bone fragment and what it means and what we can.

Extrapolate evidentiarily from that, And that is exactly how you build a case if you want to win anyway. You look at each piece of evidence and you think and think and think, what can I prove with this one piece of evidence?

Extrapolate evidentiarily from that, And that is exactly how you build a case if you want to win anyway. You look at each piece of evidence and you think and think and think, what can I prove with this one piece of evidence?

Isn't that true? Jessica? Absolutely true?

Isn't that true? Jessica? Absolutely true?

And you also look at the evidence and you think, you know, what else could this be? So you know, when you're asking what are some you know, non nefarious reasons why a bone fragment might be found on a hacksaw? Certainly as a prosecutor, you're considering those explanations that you can knock down those attacks as you're trying to prove your case.

And you also look at the evidence and you think, you know, what else could this be? So you know, when you're asking what are some you know, non nefarious reasons why a bone fragment might be found on a hacksaw? Certainly as a prosecutor, you're considering those explanations that you can knock down those attacks as you're trying to prove your case.

You know, Rachel, she'll keep joining us investigative news reporter for the Washington Examiner.

You know, Rachel, she'll keep joining us investigative news reporter for the Washington Examiner.

When we first spoke to her today, she was talking about the layers and the layers and the layers of this case.

When we first spoke to her today, she was talking about the layers and the layers and the layers of this case.

You are so right, Rachel, because think about it, whenever a defendant wouldn't show up to court, I go, why are you so worry? Just go over to his mother's house and look under the bed, Go look in her closet. Now that's where he is. He's in mommy's because mommy will always take care of you and protect you, even against LA law enforcement. Think about this, Rachel, She'll key. He goes to his mother's I mean it's not hers personally, but that's the dumpster she uses, her apartment building, her condo building uses.

You are so right, Rachel, because think about it, whenever a defendant wouldn't show up to court, I go, why are you so worry? Just go over to his mother's house and look under the bed, Go look in her closet. Now that's where he is. He's in mommy's because mommy will always take care of you and protect you, even against LA law enforcement. Think about this, Rachel, She'll key. He goes to his mother's I mean it's not hers personally, but that's the dumpster she uses, her apartment building, her condo building uses.

He goes to mommy's house to get rid of the evidence.

He goes to mommy's house to get rid of the evidence.

That's a whole psychological bundle for me to figure out right there, that he's so connected to the mommy gets the mom to hire the PI.

That's a whole psychological bundle for me to figure out right there, that he's so connected to the mommy gets the mom to hire the PI.

He tells the mama.

He tells the mama.

She's sleeping around, she's such a big or let's hire a private investigator. And then he goes there. I guess for support for egging on. Isn't this dumpster near mom's place.

She's sleeping around, she's such a big or let's hire a private investigator. And then he goes there. I guess for support for egging on. Isn't this dumpster near mom's place.

Yeah, it's very I remember when I was first reporting on this case getting all the evidence together, that was something that really stuck out to me because I think that it does on one hand, like you pointed out, point out a psychological component to this case, but I think it also it was very interesting to me because I feel as though that if he did end up committing this murder, he didn't exactly hide it very well. He was caught on camera buying supplies. Those supplies were found in a dumpster.

Yeah, it's very I remember when I was first reporting on this case getting all the evidence together, that was something that really stuck out to me because I think that it does on one hand, like you pointed out, point out a psychological component to this case, but I think it also it was very interesting to me because I feel as though that if he did end up committing this murder, he didn't exactly hide it very well. He was caught on camera buying supplies. Those supplies were found in a dumpster.

Oh yeah, that's what I was going to ask you, Rachel. He's caught on camera buying supplies. And I'm going to circle back in a sect to Lisa Daddio, former chief of police, about don't they know their surveillance video Hello and home Depot and Low's and Target and Walmart. But Rachel, the items found in the dumpster, what exactly are those items?

Oh yeah, that's what I was going to ask you, Rachel. He's caught on camera buying supplies. And I'm going to circle back in a sect to Lisa Daddio, former chief of police, about don't they know their surveillance video Hello and home Depot and Low's and Target and Walmart. But Rachel, the items found in the dumpster, what exactly are those items?

If you could refresh our recollections.

If you could refresh our recollections.

The blade knife was found in their home, the hack there was a hacksaw, a hatchet, rugs that investigators believe belonged to the Walsh at home, and then just various excess of cleaning supplies. I remember, just off of the top of my head looking at the receipt. It was it was buckets, it was mops, there was a hazmat suit, it was rags, the things that you you know, would allegedly use to cover up a crime. And so that's kind of why I was pointing to the fact that you know, he didn't if he ended up committing this crime, he didn't exactly hide it.

The blade knife was found in their home, the hack there was a hacksaw, a hatchet, rugs that investigators believe belonged to the Walsh at home, and then just various excess of cleaning supplies. I remember, just off of the top of my head looking at the receipt. It was it was buckets, it was mops, there was a hazmat suit, it was rags, the things that you you know, would allegedly use to cover up a crime. And so that's kind of why I was pointing to the fact that you know, he didn't if he ended up committing this crime, he didn't exactly hide it.

Very well, and he wouldn't be the first.

Very well, and he wouldn't be the first.

Does the name Fotus DilOS ring a bell, because it sure does to me. His wife, Jennifer's body still missing, five children to raise without a mother because he killed her and he was in on it, goading him along girlfriend mistress Michelle Traconis. Don't leave her out of this. She's the bills above to his satan. Guys, take a listen to our friends at w v I T regarding Jennifer Dolos.

Does the name Fotus DilOS ring a bell, because it sure does to me. His wife, Jennifer's body still missing, five children to raise without a mother because he killed her and he was in on it, goading him along girlfriend mistress Michelle Traconis. Don't leave her out of this. She's the bills above to his satan. Guys, take a listen to our friends at w v I T regarding Jennifer Dolos.

The arrest Warren sheds a lot of light on how authorities ultimately moved to charge him with kidnapping and felony murder. Today physical evidence were covered along Albany Avenue was a big factor in the police investigation over the summer. You'll remember, police said a man who appeared to be photos. Dulos, along with the woman who appeared to be Michelle Traconis, his girlfriend, recorded to disposing of garbage bags along Albany Avenue the night that Jennifer disappeared. While the arrest warrant, it lays out some of what was recovered from those garbage bags, including a bloody paper towel, a sponge, clothes, undergarments, duct tape and more that all contained Jennifer Dulos's DNA.

The arrest Warren sheds a lot of light on how authorities ultimately moved to charge him with kidnapping and felony murder. Today physical evidence were covered along Albany Avenue was a big factor in the police investigation over the summer. You'll remember, police said a man who appeared to be photos. Dulos, along with the woman who appeared to be Michelle Traconis, his girlfriend, recorded to disposing of garbage bags along Albany Avenue the night that Jennifer disappeared. While the arrest warrant, it lays out some of what was recovered from those garbage bags, including a bloody paper towel, a sponge, clothes, undergarments, duct tape and more that all contained Jennifer Dulos's DNA.

Well, can I just say a very technical legal term, idiot? And he's not the only one. What about Bo Rothwell, I'll never forget that name. Take listen to KMOV.

Well, can I just say a very technical legal term, idiot? And he's not the only one. What about Bo Rothwell, I'll never forget that name. Take listen to KMOV.

The husband Bo was seen on the eleventh, the day before Jennifer disappeared. He was seen on video buying cleaning products including bleach, carpet cleaner, and gloves. So last night we were there as police obtained that search warrn and went into the couple's home on North Winds Drive. They were in there for hours and they're now telling us the detective located wet carpet soaked with bleach and large areas of blood on the carpeting.

The husband Bo was seen on the eleventh, the day before Jennifer disappeared. He was seen on video buying cleaning products including bleach, carpet cleaner, and gloves. So last night we were there as police obtained that search warrn and went into the couple's home on North Winds Drive. They were in there for hours and they're now telling us the detective located wet carpet soaked with bleach and large areas of blood on the carpeting.

I'm telling you, if David Lynch ever goes to Walmart Lowe's home depot target and buys a bunch of cleaning supplies. Go ahead, call me right then, because he's up to something that has never happened in life, you know. Lisa Daddio form a police chief, forming Deputy chief of police, Lisa, thank you for being with us.

I'm telling you, if David Lynch ever goes to Walmart Lowe's home depot target and buys a bunch of cleaning supplies. Go ahead, call me right then, because he's up to something that has never happened in life, you know. Lisa Daddio form a police chief, forming Deputy chief of police, Lisa, thank you for being with us.

These people are not idiots.

These people are not idiots.

Photus Delos built multimillion dollar luxury homes. Brian Walsh was an art dealer and collector that moved in rarefied circles. Don't they see that video camera up there? Do they think they're immune? Haven't you seen this a million times?

Photus Delos built multimillion dollar luxury homes. Brian Walsh was an art dealer and collector that moved in rarefied circles. Don't they see that video camera up there? Do they think they're immune? Haven't you seen this a million times?

So yeah, we have, And I think what happens is, you know, dumpsters behind an apartment building, for example, Brian's probably not thinking that that area is under video surveillance. Yes, maybe other places you know around the building are or ring cameras, you know, from his home going to other places we know because that came up and to do those cases as well. But yet I don't think necessarily what he's doing regarding the dumpsters, he's thinking that there's any video footage back there. Now regarding the store purchases, come on, everybody knows everything you do there is under video surveillance from the minute you're you pull into the parking lot, so you walk in the store. As you move throughout the store at the cast registers, you know, is he trying to kind of hide his parents by wearing a mask in January to you know that you only see the top part of his hat, you know, hit his head. Is he wearing a mask any other time or is it only when he's going to these stores? I mean, it all becomes circumstantials, but it helps the investigators.

So yeah, we have, And I think what happens is, you know, dumpsters behind an apartment building, for example, Brian's probably not thinking that that area is under video surveillance. Yes, maybe other places you know around the building are or ring cameras, you know, from his home going to other places we know because that came up and to do those cases as well. But yet I don't think necessarily what he's doing regarding the dumpsters, he's thinking that there's any video footage back there. Now regarding the store purchases, come on, everybody knows everything you do there is under video surveillance from the minute you're you pull into the parking lot, so you walk in the store. As you move throughout the store at the cast registers, you know, is he trying to kind of hide his parents by wearing a mask in January to you know that you only see the top part of his hat, you know, hit his head. Is he wearing a mask any other time or is it only when he's going to these stores? I mean, it all becomes circumstantials, but it helps the investigators.

And there's a method to it. Four cops lasidadio. I mean, here's a good example. Think about Ryan Coberger. Sorry to bring up that specter, but when cops were looking for the vehicle the PRIP would have used, they looked on that block, then they moved out, Then they moved out, then they moved out until they spot the Elantra. And we're going to see more about that Elantra on video. Here's a good example. I prosecuted a guy for murdering his wife by arson, and of course he clubbed her first. But I went to the site, of course, to the scene and was looking around, like where are all of his clothes? Where are his suits? This guy has a million dollar business. Where are his suits? So I turned to my investigator and said, let's get busy. Let's go to every dry cleaner. Let's start on this block and then go out, and then go out, and less than two miles away, the day before he sets house on fire, we found like twenty plus suits and shirts at a dry cleaner. I mean really, So that's how you find the location. You don't know if it's lows or home depot unless you can get the credit card information, but you just move out and move out, and then you hit a treasure trove.

And there's a method to it. Four cops lasidadio. I mean, here's a good example. Think about Ryan Coberger. Sorry to bring up that specter, but when cops were looking for the vehicle the PRIP would have used, they looked on that block, then they moved out, Then they moved out, then they moved out until they spot the Elantra. And we're going to see more about that Elantra on video. Here's a good example. I prosecuted a guy for murdering his wife by arson, and of course he clubbed her first. But I went to the site, of course, to the scene and was looking around, like where are all of his clothes? Where are his suits? This guy has a million dollar business. Where are his suits? So I turned to my investigator and said, let's get busy. Let's go to every dry cleaner. Let's start on this block and then go out, and then go out, and less than two miles away, the day before he sets house on fire, we found like twenty plus suits and shirts at a dry cleaner. I mean really, So that's how you find the location. You don't know if it's lows or home depot unless you can get the credit card information, but you just move out and move out, and then you hit a treasure trove.

Bam, right, Lisa Daddio.

Bam, right, Lisa Daddio.

Absolutely, Nancy. You know something that hasn't come up yet that we can't obviously discount.

Absolutely, Nancy. You know something that hasn't come up yet that we can't obviously discount.

It's his cell phone.

It's his cell phone.

Oh yeah, Brian's cell phone, and we're with hitting off of towers and the forensic digital information that you can get from that cell phone, you know, the day of the days after that, are going to help you.

Oh yeah, Brian's cell phone, and we're with hitting off of towers and the forensic digital information that you can get from that cell phone, you know, the day of the days after that, are going to help you.

The movement's like again that they created where here's a map of his movements on Brian Coberg and it's amazing. And they did the same thing with photos duos through ring doorbell surveillance video doorbell security cams that businesses, even bus bus video. Here is the salacious tidbit. I've kind of been putting it off, but let's just get it out there. Take a listen to our cut forty eight our friends at wb Z.

The movement's like again that they created where here's a map of his movements on Brian Coberg and it's amazing. And they did the same thing with photos duos through ring doorbell surveillance video doorbell security cams that businesses, even bus bus video. Here is the salacious tidbit. I've kind of been putting it off, but let's just get it out there. Take a listen to our cut forty eight our friends at wb Z.

December of twenty twenty two, it had become evident that mister Walsh was suspecting his wife of having an affair.

December of twenty twenty two, it had become evident that mister Walsh was suspecting his wife of having an affair.

His mother did hire a private investigator shortly in the four New Years that year.

His mother did hire a private investigator shortly in the four New Years that year.

She told mister Walsh that she was doing that.

She told mister Walsh that she was doing that.

He said she was crazy on a good girl, but go ahead and she'll be really wrong.

He said she was crazy on a good girl, but go ahead and she'll be really wrong.

Prosecutors then went through the timeline from when Anna Walsh was last seen, so when they say Brian first reported her missing, So.

Prosecutors then went through the timeline from when Anna Walsh was last seen, so when they say Brian first reported her missing, So.

Of course he claims she's crazy, you know. Rachel Shulkey joining us from the Washington Examiner, I wanted to take a listen to our cut fifty four our friends at Boston twenty five as well.

Of course he claims she's crazy, you know. Rachel Shulkey joining us from the Washington Examiner, I wanted to take a listen to our cut fifty four our friends at Boston twenty five as well.

This grizzly case has made headlines all across the country. At this arraignment, Prosecutor Greg Connor's statement of the case revealed on a Walsh upset that Brian was likely facing federal prison time in another case, was prepared to leave him and moved to Washington with their three young children. Brian was the sole beneficiary of more than two million dollars worth of life insurance policies, and just before Anna disappeared, Connor said Brian suspected Anna of cheating on him.

This grizzly case has made headlines all across the country. At this arraignment, Prosecutor Greg Connor's statement of the case revealed on a Walsh upset that Brian was likely facing federal prison time in another case, was prepared to leave him and moved to Washington with their three young children. Brian was the sole beneficiary of more than two million dollars worth of life insurance policies, and just before Anna disappeared, Connor said Brian suspected Anna of cheating on him.

He was routinely visiting the Instagram page of one of her male friends, and on December twenty sixth, his mother, with his input and direction, obtained and hired a private investigator to surveil Anna Walsh in Washington, d C.

He was routinely visiting the Instagram page of one of her male friends, and on December twenty sixth, his mother, with his input and direction, obtained and hired a private investigator to surveil Anna Walsh in Washington, d C.

Prime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Prime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Rachel Shiloke, Washington Examiner, what can you tell us about the alleged affair?

Rachel Shiloke, Washington Examiner, what can you tell us about the alleged affair?

The alleged affair is really interesting because was when it first came out that this was circulating in the media. You know, there was an alleged affair. There wasn't much evidence to go off of, you know, court search warrants had been sealed, all this evidence had been sealed. But now that we have the actual trans that like not transactions, the interviews and the information, it seems to me that what they what the police founded that this man confirmed that they were in a dating relationship and had been for several months and it was growing more serious, and at one point they had traveled to Dublin, Ireland to spend Thanksgiving together, and they spent Christmas Eve together, and they were planning a belated New Year celebrations together on January fourth, and that is when Brian Wallace started calling her work in Washington, d C. Saying, my wife hasn't been seen have you heard from her? And investigators are believing that this was a cover up to stem from the fact that he had murdered her on New Year's Day.

The alleged affair is really interesting because was when it first came out that this was circulating in the media. You know, there was an alleged affair. There wasn't much evidence to go off of, you know, court search warrants had been sealed, all this evidence had been sealed. But now that we have the actual trans that like not transactions, the interviews and the information, it seems to me that what they what the police founded that this man confirmed that they were in a dating relationship and had been for several months and it was growing more serious, and at one point they had traveled to Dublin, Ireland to spend Thanksgiving together, and they spent Christmas Eve together, and they were planning a belated New Year celebrations together on January fourth, and that is when Brian Wallace started calling her work in Washington, d C. Saying, my wife hasn't been seen have you heard from her? And investigators are believing that this was a cover up to stem from the fact that he had murdered her on New Year's Day.

Doctor Bethany Marshall joining a psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills, jumping off what Rachel Shilkey has just.

Doctor Bethany Marshall joining a psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills, jumping off what Rachel Shilkey has just.

Described, and you mentioned it earlier.

Described, and you mentioned it earlier.

Can't you just imagine Brian walch sitting at mommy's kitchen table and wherever it was Swain Scott, I think it was, you know, just gnashing his teeth and switching his tail. My wife's having an affair. Sure, he never thought, Wow, I wonder why she's not attracted to me anymore. Maybe because I committed fraud and I'm going to jail for that, for art fraud. But that said, obsessed with the possibility his wife is having an affair and.

Can't you just imagine Brian walch sitting at mommy's kitchen table and wherever it was Swain Scott, I think it was, you know, just gnashing his teeth and switching his tail. My wife's having an affair. Sure, he never thought, Wow, I wonder why she's not attracted to me anymore. Maybe because I committed fraud and I'm going to jail for that, for art fraud. But that said, obsessed with the possibility his wife is having an affair and.

He's unloading it all to mommy and.

He's unloading it all to mommy and.

Going just obsessively on his cell phone or his tablet, looking and who he thinks is the boyfriend's insta and all of his social trying to see if Anna, his wife, was in a.

Going just obsessively on his cell phone or his tablet, looking and who he thinks is the boyfriend's insta and all of his social trying to see if Anna, his wife, was in a.

Picture, or thinking about the guy. Looking at the guy.

Picture, or thinking about the guy. Looking at the guy.

Oh, he's not handsome, he's not buff, he's got this crappy job.

Oh, he's not handsome, he's not buff, he's got this crappy job.

Why is she interested in him?

Why is she interested in him?

Just whatever is going on in his mind, but just obsessing on it to the point he convinces his mother to get in league. Within that mother maybe looking at accessory charges.

Just whatever is going on in his mind, but just obsessing on it to the point he convinces his mother to get in league. Within that mother maybe looking at accessory charges.

Think about that, mommy.

Think about that, mommy.

Well, usually when an individual finds out that their spouse or partners having an affair, their first instinct is to leave the other person, not to stalk the other person.

Well, usually when an individual finds out that their spouse or partners having an affair, their first instinct is to leave the other person, not to stalk the other person.

I would be devastated just thinking about it makes me sick to my stomach.

I would be devastated just thinking about it makes me sick to my stomach.

Yeah, well, I mean it makes all of us sick to our stomachs. In fact, most people who find out a partner is having an affair when they come to my office, they are so devastated they are almost psychotic. They are crying, they can't sleep, they have intrusive thoughts.

Yeah, well, I mean it makes all of us sick to our stomachs. In fact, most people who find out a partner is having an affair when they come to my office, they are so devastated they are almost psychotic. They are crying, they can't sleep, they have intrusive thoughts.

It's not the three minutes of sex for Pete's sake, it's the love, the love that you would leave your wife and your children and the hull and the family and the memories for what a piece of tail.

It's not the three minutes of sex for Pete's sake, it's the love, the love that you would leave your wife and your children and the hull and the family and the memories for what a piece of tail.

Seriously, but we have to.

Seriously, but we have to.

Be clear that that's not what we're talking about here.

Be clear that that's not what we're talking about here.

No, I think that Anna Walsh, if this is true about the affair, was emotionally involved with this guy. I think she had had it with Brian Walsh and his double dealing in his lies. He had threatened to kill her in the past. She had filed a police report and then later dropped the charges. Now he's cheating with the art. I mean, really, who's gonna be able to pull off an art fraud with an Andy Warhol. I think that's not going to be checked out. For Pete's sake, she had had it with him. I think that there's a very good chance she was deeply in love with this guy.

No, I think that Anna Walsh, if this is true about the affair, was emotionally involved with this guy. I think she had had it with Brian Walsh and his double dealing in his lies. He had threatened to kill her in the past. She had filed a police report and then later dropped the charges. Now he's cheating with the art. I mean, really, who's gonna be able to pull off an art fraud with an Andy Warhol. I think that's not going to be checked out. For Pete's sake, she had had it with him. I think that there's a very good chance she was deeply in love with this guy.

And it's actually nancy. Women who are in domestic violent situations, on average, it takes them nine attempts to leave the relationship before they are finally successful, and one of the reasons is that when they try to leave the partner in this case, Brian Walsh knows that the control is slipping, and they try to put their claws, their hooks, their tentacles deeper and deeper and deeper into the victims. So when he's going online looking at Instagram, kind of cyber stalking her, it's not.

And it's actually nancy. Women who are in domestic violent situations, on average, it takes them nine attempts to leave the relationship before they are finally successful, and one of the reasons is that when they try to leave the partner in this case, Brian Walsh knows that the control is slipping, and they try to put their claws, their hooks, their tentacles deeper and deeper and deeper into the victims. So when he's going online looking at Instagram, kind of cyber stalking her, it's not.

Because he's so sad or he's worried about her welfare. It's that he feels betrayed and he knows that he no longer has power and dominance over her.

Because he's so sad or he's worried about her welfare. It's that he feels betrayed and he knows that he no longer has power and dominance over her.

So all of the.

So all of the.

Stocking, all of this talking to his mom about it is an attempt to re establish the way the relationship once was.

Stocking, all of this talking to his mom about it is an attempt to re establish the way the relationship once was.

Hey, doctor Bethany, hold on before alsa thought, have you noticed every time and jump in anybody on the panel, help me out here, Rachel Shilkey, doctor Bethany, Lisa, doctor Dpree, Jessica Garth. Have you noticed that every picture of Brian Wall, she looks like he's just rolled out of bed. He always looks unkept. He's not really helping take care of the boys. They've got three boys. He's not working and bringing in money, and she's having to support everybody and travel to DC from her home every on and off all week to support them.

Hey, doctor Bethany, hold on before alsa thought, have you noticed every time and jump in anybody on the panel, help me out here, Rachel Shilkey, doctor Bethany, Lisa, doctor Dpree, Jessica Garth. Have you noticed that every picture of Brian Wall, she looks like he's just rolled out of bed. He always looks unkept. He's not really helping take care of the boys. They've got three boys. He's not working and bringing in money, and she's having to support everybody and travel to DC from her home every on and off all week to support them.

And to top it off, he's a con. He did an art fraud for thousands of dollars.

And to top it off, he's a con. He did an art fraud for thousands of dollars.

I mean, it's not like he's at home cooking a homemade beef stew or a chicken pot pie for when she gets home from work. He's doing nothing. At what point does the light switch flick and you go, you know what, even if you're not gonna help me, don't hurt me, and you're hurting me.

I mean, it's not like he's at home cooking a homemade beef stew or a chicken pot pie for when she gets home from work. He's doing nothing. At what point does the light switch flick and you go, you know what, even if you're not gonna help me, don't hurt me, and you're hurting me.

I'm getting out of.

I'm getting out of.

This, you know, Nancy, this is Jessica. This case just it screams to me. You know that this was a man who had lost control over his life, and I think that what he did to his wife ultimately is him trying to reassert, you know, power and control in an ultimate way. I mean, ultimately he has you know, he's taken her life and no one else can ever have her. And while he himself has you know, he's facing criminal charges now on multiple different fronts, in that way, he will always have control over his wife.

This, you know, Nancy, this is Jessica. This case just it screams to me. You know that this was a man who had lost control over his life, and I think that what he did to his wife ultimately is him trying to reassert, you know, power and control in an ultimate way. I mean, ultimately he has you know, he's taken her life and no one else can ever have her. And while he himself has you know, he's facing criminal charges now on multiple different fronts, in that way, he will always have control over his wife.

Okay, doctor Beth and a Marshall, she is totally stealing your thunder.

Okay, doctor Beth and a Marshall, she is totally stealing your thunder.

You must be really embarrassed right now.

You must be really embarrassed right now.

Well, well, let me add to this. Remember he tried to con his own father, to con his own father out of aspects of the father's estate.

Well, well, let me add to this. Remember he tried to con his own father, to con his own father out of aspects of the father's estate.

So tell everybody about that.

So tell everybody about that.

That's a really good point, you know, when you don't know horse, look at his track record and there he is doing the same thing again.

That's a really good point, you know, when you don't know horse, look at his track record and there he is doing the same thing again.

Refresh our recollection on that. I remember that now.

Refresh our recollection on that. I remember that now.

It only came to light because one of the father's friends, I believe, if if I recall correctly, was very aware that the father wanted nothing to do with his son, Brian Walsh. He saw his son as a loser, a con artist, felonious, and so he cut Brian completely out of his will. But what happened is that the father became increasingly ill towards the end of his life. Brian Walsh would go to the father's house and I believe he attempted to change the father's will while the father was sort of in hospice or at the end of his life, and he did it in a very strange and transparent way, where he forged the signature or something like that. So I think that what tells me about Brian Walsh is that everybody was a mark. Okay, everybody was somebody from whom he could con or get money or steal from, including his own wife. His wife was a mark too. I mean, in some ways we to say that her going to work in another state was because she was trying to get away from him, or he was kind of in his own mind timping her out. Like you say that he's always looking crumpled and like he just rolled out of bed. I mean, Brian Walsh felt that he didn't have to work, that everybody else would work for him. And remember, sociopaths, one of the defining features is they have the parasitic lifestyle. They are parasitic with the people around them. So he was a parasite with his father, He was a parasite with well, with his wife, always trying to extract things from them, working them harder and harder, while he's just sitting at his mother's dinner table, you know, chatting her up about how he feels so cheated and betrayed by the wife. You know what if he felt so cheated and betrayed, he's gone out. I know he was under you know, house arrest at this point. But he could have had a legitimate job and a career and supported his family. But that's not the way Brian Walsh rolled.

It only came to light because one of the father's friends, I believe, if if I recall correctly, was very aware that the father wanted nothing to do with his son, Brian Walsh. He saw his son as a loser, a con artist, felonious, and so he cut Brian completely out of his will. But what happened is that the father became increasingly ill towards the end of his life. Brian Walsh would go to the father's house and I believe he attempted to change the father's will while the father was sort of in hospice or at the end of his life, and he did it in a very strange and transparent way, where he forged the signature or something like that. So I think that what tells me about Brian Walsh is that everybody was a mark. Okay, everybody was somebody from whom he could con or get money or steal from, including his own wife. His wife was a mark too. I mean, in some ways we to say that her going to work in another state was because she was trying to get away from him, or he was kind of in his own mind timping her out. Like you say that he's always looking crumpled and like he just rolled out of bed. I mean, Brian Walsh felt that he didn't have to work, that everybody else would work for him. And remember, sociopaths, one of the defining features is they have the parasitic lifestyle. They are parasitic with the people around them. So he was a parasite with his father, He was a parasite with well, with his wife, always trying to extract things from them, working them harder and harder, while he's just sitting at his mother's dinner table, you know, chatting her up about how he feels so cheated and betrayed by the wife. You know what if he felt so cheated and betrayed, he's gone out. I know he was under you know, house arrest at this point. But he could have had a legitimate job and a career and supported his family. But that's not the way Brian Walsh rolled.

And he just really drunk a chord in me. Doctor Bethany. You've met David and my husband. This is kind of guy you need to look for. You need to look for a guy that wants to do something for you, Dr Bethany. And I don't mean big things, expensive things, something that matters to you, you know, Dr Bethany, to get the children to school on time, and all the animals fed, and my grandma and my mother taking care of I get up every morning at.

And he just really drunk a chord in me. Doctor Bethany. You've met David and my husband. This is kind of guy you need to look for. You need to look for a guy that wants to do something for you, Dr Bethany. And I don't mean big things, expensive things, something that matters to you, you know, Dr Bethany, to get the children to school on time, and all the animals fed, and my grandma and my mother taking care of I get up every morning at.

Least by five point thirty.

Least by five point thirty.

Very often David will beat me up, beat me being awake, and I'll go in the kitchen and find him in there and he has already made the coffee or the dishwasher done some little thing that requires time and effort to helping.

Very often David will beat me up, beat me being awake, and I'll go in the kitchen and find him in there and he has already made the coffee or the dishwasher done some little thing that requires time and effort to helping.

The laundry, yeah, laundry, Yeah, he does laundry.

The laundry, yeah, laundry, Yeah, he does laundry.

And so I don't feel that's another thing I don't do, and it's just or have to.

And so I don't feel that's another thing I don't do, and it's just or have to.

My point is.

My point is.

Here, is Waltz just really a parasite, just sucking her dry. Oh and speaking of when you don't know a horse, look at this track record. You gotta hear our cut sixty one talking about a scam.

Here, is Waltz just really a parasite, just sucking her dry. Oh and speaking of when you don't know a horse, look at this track record. You gotta hear our cut sixty one talking about a scam.

A fraud.

A fraud.

He's first, there's the Warhol paintings fraud. The fraud on Dad. Now listen to our cut sixty Well this is Beyonca Bill trend at NBC Team.

He's first, there's the Warhol paintings fraud. The fraud on Dad. Now listen to our cut sixty Well this is Beyonca Bill trend at NBC Team.

Anna Walsh was last seen on New Year's Day by a family friend who left their house at one thirty in the morning, about three and a half hours later. More research on the iPad about disposing of a body. Prosecutors noted Brian Walsh would benefit financially from his wife's death.

Anna Walsh was last seen on New Year's Day by a family friend who left their house at one thirty in the morning, about three and a half hours later. More research on the iPad about disposing of a body. Prosecutors noted Brian Walsh would benefit financially from his wife's death.

In total, her life insurance is over two point seven million dollars. Where the defendant was a sole beneficiary.

In total, her life insurance is over two point seven million dollars. Where the defendant was a sole beneficiary.

The defendant was his sole beneficiary. He was in liigned to get nearly three million dollars.

The defendant was his sole beneficiary. He was in liigned to get nearly three million dollars.

If he could get rid of Anna. We wait as just as some false goodbye night, you

If he could get rid of Anna. We wait as just as some false goodbye night, you

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