Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph Channel one two. She was found frozen, mutilated, her face covered in maggots. She a beloved teacher, a nun. Of course, I'm talking about Cathy, says nic Sister Cathy. To this day, her murder unsolved, questions echoing did the Catholic Church cover up this horrific crime on a beautiful young nune? But more important, who murdered sister Kathy? I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories and I want answers. Sister Kathy was reported missing when she did not return home to her apartment one evening, the apartment she shared with another nun. She had gone out to buy a gift, as I recall, a wedding gift her sister was getting married. It was Christmas time, everybody was shopping. It was leading up to Christmas anyways, towards the end of November, and it was busy. She went to a local shopping center. And the thing that I know for sure is she went to one of her favorite bakeries. And I believe she made it to the bakery and came out of the bakery and got in her car because a fresh buns. We're still sitting on the seat, the passenger seat up front in her car when her car was finally located, Kathy says nick sister. Katherine says, Nick was beautiful, popular, twenty six year old young nun who had taught at an all girls Catholic school in Baltimore, last seen by her roommate, another young nun, when she took off that evening after she got home November seven, Friday night now Friday night. As I recall with me Jimma Hoskins on the story Shane Waters, private investigator and podcaster, Karen Stark, renowned at New York psychologist and Crime Stories investigative reporter John Limley to Jimma Hoskins, I'm so happy to have you with us as we try to put the pieces together of this puzzle. Um, I'm trying not to thank a sister Kathy being found in that field, her body frozen and mutilated and her face covered in maggots. I'm trying to focus on the night she goes missing. There was a bi monthly ritual where both the girls, both the ladies would get their checks and they would go deposited. And they had gotten their checks that day. I believe the checks were deposited by sister Kathy before she went shopping at the bakery. What what to tell me? You're piecing together the timeline, Jimma Hoskins. Well, thanking Nancy by the way for having me on your program. This is an opportunity for us to keep the attention on the story because it's still a cold case. Our understanding that Kathy came home from school and she had talked to a student that afternoon about going shopping for her sister because her sister, Marilyn was getting married. She was very excited about that. So, as far as we know, she went out probably around seven to seven thirty after having dinner. Um sister Russell was still at the apartment. Cathy traveled not very far and maybe ten minutes to a local shopping center in Baltimore. She did deposit her check. We do know that the money was in the bank, and the receipt for that deposit is in you know, the police have that. We do know that she bought the buns. Now, the bakery was inside a large department store and it was very popular. It had a number of chains around Baltimore. It was named Muley's. And for folks who have seen the Keepers, they will remember that that box of buns was actually on the floor of the passenger seat, and the trash can on the hump, the little the little bucket that we all used to how having her cars was also knocked over to the passenger side, and those crime scene photos are actually in the keepers. Um, it's if I speculate, then everybody in the world will say, well, Gemma knows what happened, And Gemma doesn't know what happened, but I do believe that someone accosted her in the car and possibly forced her over to the passenger seat. I don't know that, but that's what I'm assuming. Well, and it could have been in any way Jemma Hoskins, because we know she cast a two check just before she disappears. It was a routine trip. Either sister Kathy or her roommate made the trip to the bank every other Friday with their paychecks from the city school system. That bakery box was on you're saying, not the front car seat, as I had found, but on the floorboard of the front car seat. And that's significant. It was on the floor. That's significant because you know what it says to me. If it were me and our driving and I wanted to eat something from the bakery, which has happened way too many times, I would have it sitting on the seat, the passenger seat, so I could reach over and get it, not the floorboard. So why did she put it in the floorboard? It actually was still wrapped up. You can see the box. It's tied with cord in both directions. It's not mashed. It's it's you know, intact, and it is on the floor of the passenger side. And that was from hect right H E C H T s um. There was a bakery, Mully's Bakery, within Hex department store, so I believe someone actually saw her there. But we don't need an eyewitness because we know she made it that far. Now Hex Bakery, Muley's Bakery was someone There was someone there following her after she cast her check. Did she ever make it to buy? I didn't she buy a necklace? Is that what she bought for the sister? Well that's what we've assumed. Now in the past year, we have indications that she may not have bought anything. Um. The the police have an interview with someone at the bridal registry and the Heck Company, and it indicates that Kathy was asking questions about how to set up a bridal registry. So we have a question mark about the necklace. We don't know and there was no receipt found or anything in the car that indicated that a gift had been bought. There was no car. Did she still have the money from the cash she either? I think she cast some of the check and what happened to the cash? The cash was not in the car she she cast her chest. So before I said that there was a giant cover up within the archdiocese church where she she had taught for so long Archbishop Kio High School. Before I claim that, I mean, could it have been Gemma that somebody saw her with an expensive necklace she just bought, followed her out so or somebody got her after she cast a check the money was nowhere to be found. Are those viable options or no? Just I don't have a dog in the fight. I just want the truth. Um, both are possible. We did have the necklace analyzed by a gemologist at a story store um last year and he indicated that it was probably one of a number of necklaces that were made more as a novelty for birth stones, and he said at that time, in nineteen sixty nine, it was probably worth about fifty dollars, so it wouldn't have been high end jewelry, but fifteen dollars to a teacher who's making two and fifty dollars every two weeks would be a lot of money, so we're not sure about that. Of course, it's possible that someone may have seen her deposit the check. We also know that a young girl from Archbishop Kio was near the bank in the parking lot with her mom and they talked to sister Cathy in the parking lot, and the police have their interview, So we don't know if that was as she was leaving to return home or to go across the street to the hack company, or if it was when she was going into the bank with me. Also is Shane Waters, private investigator, and podcasts are also on the story. The other monster rearing its head in this scenario is a series of claims made which I believe, I'll just put it out there. I believe these women regarding sex abuse with art within Archbishop Kio High School by one of the fathers. Joseph Mascow, what what do you know, Shane, Well, Nancy, I will say I also believe these women, and since the Netflix documentary aired, several more of them came forward. So when when I look at this case, there's there's a few different angles. It's almost like a few different fronts. There's this abuse that's happening. I believe that it happened and the church covered it up. When I look at this case, I also see the similarities between the Church of Baltimore and the mafia. And I say that because the mafia we know has influenced, they have money and people are scared of them, and it seems like that's what these women were facing at that time as well. Not only was it the mafia present, but they also were afraid of the faith. The faith element as well. You know, my family is very religious, They're not Catholic, but I think if I were to ever approach someone and say that I was being abused by someone from the church, that puts a lot of question in my family's faith. And unfortunately, that was what these women were all facing at that time. Um. Also, when I'm looking at this case, just as an overhead, we can. It's it's easy to wonder if Cathy was robbed. We see people being robbed all the time, and they don't. They don't end up in the same faith that Cathy ended up. So the question, the big question here is are these events related? And I mean it's it's crazy. All of these women that were abused, they will tell you we think that this was related. Because of course, prior to sister Cathy being being murdered, she was saying that she was going to confront these people who are abusing And it's not that she was just going to be confronting Father Mascal. She's confronting this this church that that we know protected him and they are willing to put theirselves and their money on the line to protect him. So when when you come up with this scenario, what are they willing to do to ensure that they not only continue to protect this monster, but to protect themselves because now they're they're they've dug a hole where they've protected him for so many years. You know, anytime abuse would come up against him, they would move him to a different place, or they would send him to a facility where they would try to help him or try to get try to try to stray him in a different direction. But after so long, you know, if if if Mr Cathy would have came out at that time and made a big noise against them, that's a lot of people with a lot of money and a lot of influence that would have gone down. And I don't see that them being willing to what that happened to Shane waters Uh and Jimma Hoskins. The big question is while Sister Cathy, we don't have evidence that she was molested by the priest A Joseph Maskell, she seemingly knew all about rampant molestation sex molestation in the Catholic school Archbishop Kio High School. In fact, isn't it true Jimma Hoskins that she quote ran interference for one of his molestation victims that didn't want to see him or encounter him. What a horrible, horrible position to be in as a young girl being raped and molested over and over and over at school by the person that when you're in confession you're literally speaking to God and you have to see the person at school and she's apparently one of the victims enlisted Sister Kathy to keep her away from her molester. Correct, So Kathy knew about everything? Was she about to blow the lid? Jimma, what can you tell me about these victims? Well, I know uh firsthand of three women who when they were girls, uh, confided in Kathy and um. The first one I know confided in December of the other two in nineteen in the spring of nineteen sixty nine. Now, Kathy left Archbishop ko to teach in a public school and to live in an apartment in the spring and June of six So for for on one hand, the girls felt like she had abandoned them, But my gut tells me that perhaps she and Russell were afraid to stay there. She told her family when they were very dismayed, that she was leaving and thinking about leaving the convent. And she told her family that it was more dangerous for her to teach at Kio than it was to teach in the city in Baltimore, which says a lot. Now, we also are aware from more than one woman that high ranking politicians and businessmen and police officers were involved in the abuse. This was a prostitution ring. This wasn't just a few girls from Kio. There were drugs involved, there were sleazy motels involved, and at everybody took care of each other. If it goes all the way to city Hall, and it did, then everybody's taking care of each other. The police are taking care of Mascal, the politicians are taking care of the businessmen and the police. Nobody talks. The police are being serviced some right at the school, coming in the fire door into Father Maskell's office where drugged and hip or hypnotized girls were there and money is exchanged. When I think that I was in that building, it makes me so angry that the only thing that divided us from that hell was a one inch door. It's appalling because we knew nothing about what was going on, and we know that, I believe much of the many of the administrators in the building knew what was happening. They refused to talk to the police. The ones that are still living, they've been told by their superior arriers not to talk. And it's not right. Somebody has to blow the whistle. This is not okay. And well, there's uh some credence, a fair bit of credence to Jimma's story because we know that Father Joseph Maskell was a chaplain and counselor there at Archbishop Kio High School. He had a brother on the police force, and there is no doubt that sister Cathy knew about the abuse. Not only did he have a brother on the police force, he was a counselor or the chaplain to the force as well, so there are a lot of connections between him and the police too. Karen Stark, Psychologists joining us out of New York. Karen, I mean, I'm Methodist, I'm not Catholic, but when I hear about a Methodist minister who has done a horrible deed, I am mortified. I think it it's just horrible because that's someone you look up to, that you trust. I consider my minister, uh who we have male and female ministers at our family church. I consider them not only friends, but confidants and someone that I would go to to pray for or with me in times of need. You know, it's hard to to take in that someone who is a person of God that we look to, that we look up to, and I do. I look up to them, even though I've heard countless stories about this priest did that, this preacher did that, this minister did and most of them. Aren't your true to think that these young girls were in this position to be raped over and over and over and Mascale was transferred from one place to the next, and now you've got a dead none. I mean, why do people why are explain the the thinking, the mindset of when you will not report molestation because it is a priest or a pastor. Well, I think it's important for you to know, Nancy, and for everyone listening that it's not just a priest or a pastor, it's anyone who is older, who's in a position. It becomes a position of authority. So if it's apparent, it doesn't matter who the person is that's doing the molestation. When you're a child, and that means if you're in elementary school or if you're in high school, you are blaming yourself and ashamed of what happened. You don't really understand end that you are not to blame in a situation like this. And it's shameful that person who wanted sister Cathy to you know, keep her from seeing the priest. I can promise you that it wasn't because she was just angry with him. She felt bad about herself, and there is a conspiracy of silence because nobody wants to come forward and reveal that this has happened to them. They believe that they have somehow contributed to this occurring, and so it's shameful on so many levels. Does that explain it? Yes, it does, Karen, And as a crime victor myself on several levels um and having dealt with so many sex attack victims, a lot of times you just don't want to talk about it and you feel that somehow it was your fault and it's shameful, and that's the way so many sex attack victims feel. And then add on the layer of the attack or getting away with it. You feel like nobody's gonna listen to you, nobody's gonna believe you, so shut the hay up. And your family may not believe you. Your family, who may be wedded to the church may consider you at fault. I mean, it's just in their minds, it's just not worth it. Jima Hoskins, isn't it true You're a senior there at Kio High School at the time sister Cathy goes missing, right? Correct? Yes? Correct? What was it like when you discover she's not at school today. What happened At the time that she disappeared. She was no longer teaching at Keio, that's teaching at Western High School in the city. But we were told that she was missing that you know, there were no cell phones and no Facebook, but our telephones on landlines. All the girls were all calling each other, and the whole community showed up at her apartment to help search, and you've seen pictures of all the police car as well. There were that many families looking as well. We were bewildered. We didn't know that perhaps she just needed to get away, Maybe she you know, just needed some space. We had no idea what happened to her. It didn't make sense. Well, was see the kind of person that needed space. Well, she kind of made her own space. But we knew nothing about the abuse, so we had nothing to assume. We none of us knew anything about what was going on at the school except the girls it was happening to. So I'm sure their mindset was very different. And I know that I've heard uh one woman say that she had confided in Kathy and it felt guilty that she might have been responsible for Kathy's daths. So none of us knew what was going on. Well, listen to this. Listen to this, Jimma with Me, Jimma Hoskins, Shane Waters, Karin Starkin, John Lmley. Guys, listen to this. This is Donna von den Bosch who suffered horrific abuse. She actually got a meager settlement with the Catholic Church. She was attacked when she was just fourteen years old by the same father Mascal. She had been a bright, excited, happy freshman at the school. And here she is on w j Z describing how she was given a drug laced soda while she was at a Catholic youth picnic and then raped by father Mescal and another priest. Listen, he was psychotic. And here's this parish priest that I've known since I was twelve, and it's also confusing. And this we go one for the next three years. She opens up to w jay Z telling how she's served a drug laced soda at a Catholic youth picnic and then raped by Father Mascoll and another priest. I'm just woozy by fall damn. He lays on top of me. He puts his legs in between my legs. To spare my legs part and rapes me. She goes on to state that at school she would hear her name called over the loud speaker telling her to report to Father Moscow's office. She said that sometimes she would go in and be raped, and sometimes he would have a coke. She will be drugged my most of the time and would be threatened. Sometimes we go in and be raped. Sometimes he would have a coke. I would be drug most of the time. He would keep guns in his top drawer. He would threaten me with them. He stole your innocence, yes, he stole your education. Yes. Did he steal your faith? Yes, because maybe I could have grown up Catholic and been happy, and I had to teach my kids you just don't trust people because they have a collar own or something. You know, monsters high you've seen the monster? Yes? Yes, How do you feel about the archdiocese? Now? This has to stop. People have to take responsibility. I hope they find um out the terrible deeds that were done and just to be served. I also hope that other survivors here that you can survive, you can move on. Don't be fooled into silence. So in my mind John Limley, the fact that the church settled. It wasn't for a lot, but they did make a forty dollars settlement for all the rapes she endured at the hands of father. And I say that with them dirt in my mouth, mescal so to me, that tells me her story is true? Or why would they have settled? And a lot of that didn't take place until twenty or so years later, two decades after the abuse. I think it would be interesting to go back to the timeline of that early November evening when Sister Cathy disappeared, uh, to bring a little bit more forward about the case. Now, a few hours went by after Sister Cathy told Sister Russell that she was going to cash her paycheck, Um, go to the bakery, maybe do a little shopping. It it's eleven o'clock. A good number of hours have gone by, and so Sister Russell becomes worried, so she calls two of their priest friends who drive over to the apartment. They eventually decide to call the police, and then they wait, and they wait for hours. In fact, at one point, um they even celebrate Mass at the at the kitchen or dining room table. Um, just hoping against hope that that sister Cathy just shows up around four or forty the next morning, it's still very dark. Uh. Sister Cathy's brand new Greenford Maverick is found with mud on it, unlocked, illegally parked just diagonally across from her apart it. And this is interesting. The back end of the vehicle is actually in the road. Um. And sister Cathy had a designated parking spot behind the apartment building, so she certainly would not have parked there. It's it's as if someone wanted that vehicle found, but there was no sign of the nun anywhere. Well, I can tell you this, John, Emily. She did not part that car that way. No, not at all. And it was several weeks. It was months later before on a cold, cold January day. Uh, sister Cathy's body is found by a hunter and his son. It was found in an informal landfill. You know. It was a landfill that was not designated as such. It's just where people went to dump stuff. Uh. It was on monumental road in a remote area of a good distance away from Cathey's apartment and after an autopsy was performed. It was revealed that Sister Cathy died from an interest rebral hemorrhage after a fracture to her skull that was inflicted by a blow to her left temple. They think by a blunt instrument. When Sister Cathy was reported that night, dozens of cops a half a dozen dog teams searched and searched a wide swath of Baltimore in that neighborhood looking for clues, headlines in the papers or city police failed to find missing none, and as John Linley is reporting, the next time she was seen, it was a horrifying site. There she was, her face covered in maggots, the body of Sister Cathy, frozen out in a field. When I look at her in her habit and then in her street clothes, she just looks so alive and so happy and so eager to teach. But it all turned into a horrific scene when she was found. Gemma, what can you tell me about another young girl who claims that she was taken by father Mescal to see as a threat Sister Cathy's body as it lie in this field. Yes, I can clarify something. Cathy's body was found there was not evidence of maggots on her face. This has been a real um issue of of what actually happened because it was January. This is horrendous. But I've done search on the life syfe cycle of maggots, and I've worked with the people that were on the body farm, which is a research place for um the decomposition, and what I learned was that because it was very warm after Cathy disappeared, when Jean was taken to see her in November, there were live maggots on her face and on her body. Now in January, there was no evidence of that. But in reading the autopsy, which I have a copy of, and by the way, warners fits and we all know who Warner s Fits is um he he explains that there were maggots in her trachea and her esophagus, so that what happens when the weather gets cold is that live maggots burrowed deeper to where it's warm. And I have to i and stay objective about this because it's very emotional for me to think that has happened to the person who was my mentor and the reason I became a teacher, because to think of her in this in this setting is just really difficult for me. But the maggots actually were not on her face, they were inside her body, and that showed up in the autopsy. You know, I find that really interesting, jim on what you're saying, because the witnesses that there were maggots, and I I believe, Jemma, you're gonna laugh. I had one of the oldest judges in the Fulton County Courthouse who was I would also like to point out the sharpest and the smartest judge I ever knew, Luther Alverson, told every jury the same jury charge. It is your duty as gerards to make all witnesses speak the truth, impugning perjury on new one, which means stories can vary to a certain degree. That doesn't mean the people are lying. That means maybe they saw it at a different angle, maybe this, maybe that. So if this, if there were maggots in her throat, hoesophagus, and this young girl is brought out to see the dead body and says, there are maggots. I don't know what she saw. Maybe she saw one. I believe that given your scenario that I think that both both witnesses are speaking the truth. But how did the girl get out there, and why did she report the dead body? Right? Well, she was taken by mask All and this was after she had been abused by him for quite a while. He told her that he knew where Cathy was. Maskell took her to see Cathy's body and at that time, because it was just a few weeks after her death, after her disappearance, there were live maggots on her face. So Gene is correct in saying that when Cathy's body was found in January, Harry, there was no evidence of maggots because it was cold and they burrowed deep into organs to get warm. Why do you believe she didn't come forward, Jemma Hoskins, Well, she was threatened with her life. Maskell said to her, you see what happens when you say bad things about people, and she was terrified. So she Jeane is the connection between the abuse and the murder. She's credible. I believe her. And when he took her there, it was to ensure her silence because she knew then that he had been responsible in some way for Kathy's death, for her murder, and that was early in his abuse career. So to every single person who had been abused by him, and we know now that that number is over a hundred. And to any nun at that fool who knew about the abuse, everybody closed their mouth. They were terrified because they knew they could be next. And I always believe that that is why Russell did not call the police, because she knew the police were involved. I think that's why she called of Cathy's friend Jerry Kobe, and the other the other brother who was a friend, because she didn't know who to turn to. I think it almost proves that the police were involved because Russell kept silent and didn't call the police. But I believe that um Jean is very credible. There's no way that she could have known that those live maggots were there unless she saw them. I think that that is very important, very important, John Limley, when I prosecute cases and I've got a witness, and I don't care if they're believable or unbelievable, or credible not credible. If I putting them on the stand, I believe them and if I can get any sintilla of evidence to support what they're saying, it is very important at trial. And Jimma Hoskins, who was a senior there at this at Keio school when sister Cathy goes missing and is killed, is describing this. That's so important. That's why I spent so much time talking about maggots. Not my favorite topic, but because they corroborate what this young girl said. That Mescal took her there and said, look what happens to people that talk about me? You could be next. And this is a detail this young girl wouldn't have just dreamed up on her own. And then years later it is. It turns out there were maggots in her esophagus, so it supports her story. It's it's so upsetting to me. Now here's another twist, another wrinkle. The body of Mascal, who later died was never going to jail, was exhumed. His d n A did not match crime scene d NA. That means nothing to me, John Limley, because I don't have any evident Sister Cathy, who by the way, was compared to Julie Andrews in Sound of Music. That's kind of personality she had, and I can just imagine her. I've been reading all the old articles in the paper. For instance, police continue a widespread search today for a pretty blue eyed year old Nune who mysteriously disappeared Friday night on a shopping expedition in the Edmonton Village area off Route forty. Sister Catherine says Nick, a member of the school Sisters of Notre Dame, reported missing early yesterday, five hours after failing to return to her apartment her sporting new car in nineteen seventy green matter Rick found during the night parked a blot from her home. It's only contents a box of buns from Muley's Bakery and a novel on native grounds. I'm just imagining her crime stories. Contributing reporter John Limley, his DNA did not match DNA at the scene. But for all I know, the DNA at the scene is DNA in the car. It could be on the car, it could be anything. It could be on the paperbag. That does not mean anything to me, Limley, Where did the DNA come from? There? Talking about the d N A was was found at the scene. That's been under wraps a little bit because even the car, the apartment, the bank, the store, the bakery, bag, the body, what what what? What? Scene? There's so there's a primaria secondary and a tertiary crime scene here, right, this was was this was found connected with a vehicle and surrounding uh Cathy's body there where they found her on that January morning. Are you sure that's where the DNA came from? Jimma, go ahead, because I'm not clear either where did the DNA come from? Okay, then came from a cigarette butt? All right? It was found at the crime scene. But at this point the police have asked me not to share exactly where at the crime scene. That's all I can say. But it was at the crime scene where her body was found. But I can't tell you specifically where because I've been asked not to. So it was where her body was, and that's still Jimma. No, We've got to keep the integrity of the investigation exactly. Jima. Here's the thing. It still means nothing to me because I don't know how that cigarette but got there. It may or may not be connected. You just can't tell me that he was not involved in some way. I will never tell you that because I believe he choreographed the whole thing. Whether he was there or not, we don't know. Yeah, I read between the lines. The cigarette but was at the crime scene, and my I my opinion is that it may have been a decoy because it hasn't matched anybody, and so perhaps you know, these guys were I think they were in cahoots. They weren't stupid. Mascal was was a monster, genius and if he involved subs, anybody could have thrown a cigarette button there from any place and everybody was going in the wrong direction. Jim, let me ask you a question. What was his personality? Was he charismatic? Was he attractive? I mean, I've looked at him. He's not attractive to me, but why were people drawn to him? Okay, Masco was charismatic in he was very brilliant. He he was very smooth, smooth talker to me. He was never physically attractive. Um. People say, you know who would play him in a in a movie, and I can't think of any He's not George Clooney, but um, very insidious, always watching. It's my understanding that he would consult with the nurse, the counselor, and the dean each week about what girls were having problems mental, physical, school, emotional, and that would be his shopping list. I hate to say it that way, but that's how He preyed on his on his victims, um girls who were having issues, girls who were upset, girls who were, you know, experimenting with drugs or we're having problems at home. He was looking for anybody that he could manipulate. And I'm not saying that all the victims were in that situation, but he was drawn to certain types of girls that he knew he would be able to manipulate. He would say Mass. He did not live at our Ti Kyo. He would come to say Mass and he was chaplain. The other priests that was there was the head of religious studies, and that was Neil Magnus. He also was abusive. He is actually the first person that some of the girls UH interacted with in confession, and then he asked them to come to his office, so he and Maskell would abuse girls together. We also know that some of the staff at the school facilitated the visits to his office by calling the girls or giving out the passes. A lot of people knew what was going on, and nobody was talking about it. And I believe Sister Kathy and Sister Russell were the only two that we're willing to do anything. So Mascow had a lot of power, but a control freak, um, a sociopath and and I believe that, uh, this man had enough power, enough skills, he fooled everybody. He fooled everybody, even his own teachers in his master's programs. Um, if there's is something I could say about this whole issue, And Nancy, thank you so much for doing this because people listen to you, and I hope that you'll continue to push for attention to this. But I want to celebrate and acknowledge all the people that have come forward, because they're well over a hundred now and many more hundreds who have contacted me. That the Keepers survivors gave them the strength and the courage to speak for the first time about being sexually abused or sexually harassed. And I think that a lot of what's happening in the public right now is due in part to the women of the Keepers. Karen start joining us out of New York. Will this case ever be solved? Why or why not? Sure? Um, if it does get solved, it will be because of all the attention that's been brought to the case because of Gemma and her fellow investigator. However, even if it never gets solved. I want to say that it's so important that it came to light and that this the victims get a chance to tell their story and get it out, and that we hope it will never happen in the future because of people like Gemma Jemma Hoskins. Final thought to me, I'm not religious, but I do have faith, and I do believe in my higher power. But to me, if evil walks the earth, it would have been him pure evil, because he could hide behind a presvestments and he could come across as being charming smart. You know, his professor at at Hopkins said he was one of the smartest people she ever met, and he fooled her because they became friends and it wasn't until near the end of his life that she realized what he was doing. So it's appalling because you know, people believe while you do what the priest says, and girls were afraid to tell. And it's a mess. It's a mess. I do believe it will be solved. I think the police it boils down to, well, you're you're attorney. It's going to be either d n a, a confession, or an eye witness, and all three of those are possible right now and the police are using new technology. They're doing further testing with DNA on the evidence that was found at the scene, and I I believe it will be solved and probably in the not too distant future. The case of the abduction and murderer of sister Kathy is still open, still unresolved. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off goodbye friend,

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph Channel one two. She was found frozen, mutilated, her face covered in maggots. She a beloved teacher, a nun. Of course, I'm talking about Cathy, says nic Sister Cathy. To this day, her murder unsolved, questions echoing did the Catholic Church cover up this horrific crime on a beautiful young nune? But more important, who murdered sister Kathy? I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories and I want answers. Sister Kathy was reported missing when she did not return home to her apartment one evening, the apartment she shared with another nun. She had gone out to buy a gift, as I recall, a wedding gift her sister was getting married. It was Christmas time, everybody was shopping. It was leading up to Christmas anyways, towards the end of November, and it was busy. She went to a local shopping center. And the thing that I know for sure is she went to one of her favorite bakeries. And I believe she made it to the bakery and came out of the bakery and got in her car because a fresh buns. We're still sitting on the seat, the passenger seat up front in her car when her car was finally located, Kathy says nick sister. Katherine says, Nick was beautiful, popular, twenty six year old young nun who had taught at an all girls Catholic school in Baltimore, last seen by her roommate, another young nun, when she took off that evening after she got home November seven, Friday night now Friday night. As I recall with me Jimma Hoskins on the story Shane Waters, private investigator and podcaster, Karen Stark, renowned at New York psychologist and Crime Stories investigative reporter John Limley to Jimma Hoskins, I'm so happy to have you with us as we try to put the pieces together of this puzzle. Um, I'm trying not to thank a sister Kathy being found in that field, her body frozen and mutilated and her face covered in maggots. I'm trying to focus on the night she goes missing. There was a bi monthly ritual where both the girls, both the ladies would get their checks and they would go deposited. And they had gotten their checks that day. I believe the checks were deposited by sister Kathy before she went shopping at the bakery. What what to tell me? You're piecing together the timeline, Jimma Hoskins. Well, thanking Nancy by the way for having me on your program. This is an opportunity for us to keep the attention on the story because it's still a cold case. Our understanding that Kathy came home from school and she had talked to a student that afternoon about going shopping for her sister because her sister, Marilyn was getting married. She was very excited about that. So, as far as we know, she went out probably around seven to seven thirty after having dinner. Um sister Russell was still at the apartment. Cathy traveled not very far and maybe ten minutes to a local shopping center in Baltimore. She did deposit her check. We do know that the money was in the bank, and the receipt for that deposit is in you know, the police have that. We do know that she bought the buns. Now, the bakery was inside a large department store and it was very popular. It had a number of chains around Baltimore. It was named Muley's. And for folks who have seen the Keepers, they will remember that that box of buns was actually on the floor of the passenger seat, and the trash can on the hump, the little the little bucket that we all used to how having her cars was also knocked over to the passenger side, and those crime scene photos are actually in the keepers. Um, it's if I speculate, then everybody in the world will say, well, Gemma knows what happened, And Gemma doesn't know what happened, but I do believe that someone accosted her in the car and possibly forced her over to the passenger seat. I don't know that, but that's what I'm assuming. Well, and it could have been in any way Jemma Hoskins, because we know she cast a two check just before she disappears. It was a routine trip. Either sister Kathy or her roommate made the trip to the bank every other Friday with their paychecks from the city school system. That bakery box was on you're saying, not the front car seat, as I had found, but on the floorboard of the front car seat. And that's significant. It was on the floor. That's significant because you know what it says to me. If it were me and our driving and I wanted to eat something from the bakery, which has happened way too many times, I would have it sitting on the seat, the passenger seat, so I could reach over and get it, not the floorboard. So why did she put it in the floorboard? It actually was still wrapped up. You can see the box. It's tied with cord in both directions. It's not mashed. It's it's you know, intact, and it is on the floor of the passenger side. And that was from hect right H E C H T s um. There was a bakery, Mully's Bakery, within Hex department store, so I believe someone actually saw her there. But we don't need an eyewitness because we know she made it that far. Now Hex Bakery, Muley's Bakery was someone There was someone there following her after she cast her check. Did she ever make it to buy? I didn't she buy a necklace? Is that what she bought for the sister? Well that's what we've assumed. Now in the past year, we have indications that she may not have bought anything. Um. The the police have an interview with someone at the bridal registry and the Heck Company, and it indicates that Kathy was asking questions about how to set up a bridal registry. So we have a question mark about the necklace. We don't know and there was no receipt found or anything in the car that indicated that a gift had been bought. There was no car. Did she still have the money from the cash she either? I think she cast some of the check and what happened to the cash? The cash was not in the car she she cast her chest. So before I said that there was a giant cover up within the archdiocese church where she she had taught for so long Archbishop Kio High School. Before I claim that, I mean, could it have been Gemma that somebody saw her with an expensive necklace she just bought, followed her out so or somebody got her after she cast a check the money was nowhere to be found. Are those viable options or no? Just I don't have a dog in the fight. I just want the truth. Um, both are possible. We did have the necklace analyzed by a gemologist at a story store um last year and he indicated that it was probably one of a number of necklaces that were made more as a novelty for birth stones, and he said at that time, in nineteen sixty nine, it was probably worth about fifty dollars, so it wouldn't have been high end jewelry, but fifteen dollars to a teacher who's making two and fifty dollars every two weeks would be a lot of money, so we're not sure about that. Of course, it's possible that someone may have seen her deposit the check. We also know that a young girl from Archbishop Kio was near the bank in the parking lot with her mom and they talked to sister Cathy in the parking lot, and the police have their interview, So we don't know if that was as she was leaving to return home or to go across the street to the hack company, or if it was when she was going into the bank with me. Also is Shane Waters, private investigator, and podcasts are also on the story. The other monster rearing its head in this scenario is a series of claims made which I believe, I'll just put it out there. I believe these women regarding sex abuse with art within Archbishop Kio High School by one of the fathers. Joseph Mascow, what what do you know, Shane, Well, Nancy, I will say I also believe these women, and since the Netflix documentary aired, several more of them came forward. So when when I look at this case, there's there's a few different angles. It's almost like a few different fronts. There's this abuse that's happening. I believe that it happened and the church covered it up. When I look at this case, I also see the similarities between the Church of Baltimore and the mafia. And I say that because the mafia we know has influenced, they have money and people are scared of them, and it seems like that's what these women were facing at that time as well. Not only was it the mafia present, but they also were afraid of the faith. The faith element as well. You know, my family is very religious, They're not Catholic, but I think if I were to ever approach someone and say that I was being abused by someone from the church, that puts a lot of question in my family's faith. And unfortunately, that was what these women were all facing at that time. Um. Also, when I'm looking at this case, just as an overhead, we can. It's it's easy to wonder if Cathy was robbed. We see people being robbed all the time, and they don't. They don't end up in the same faith that Cathy ended up. So the question, the big question here is are these events related? And I mean it's it's crazy. All of these women that were abused, they will tell you we think that this was related. Because of course, prior to sister Cathy being being murdered, she was saying that she was going to confront these people who are abusing And it's not that she was just going to be confronting Father Mascal. She's confronting this this church that that we know protected him and they are willing to put theirselves and their money on the line to protect him. So when when you come up with this scenario, what are they willing to do to ensure that they not only continue to protect this monster, but to protect themselves because now they're they're they've dug a hole where they've protected him for so many years. You know, anytime abuse would come up against him, they would move him to a different place, or they would send him to a facility where they would try to help him or try to get try to try to stray him in a different direction. But after so long, you know, if if if Mr Cathy would have came out at that time and made a big noise against them, that's a lot of people with a lot of money and a lot of influence that would have gone down. And I don't see that them being willing to what that happened to Shane waters Uh and Jimma Hoskins. The big question is while Sister Cathy, we don't have evidence that she was molested by the priest A Joseph Maskell, she seemingly knew all about rampant molestation sex molestation in the Catholic school Archbishop Kio High School. In fact, isn't it true Jimma Hoskins that she quote ran interference for one of his molestation victims that didn't want to see him or encounter him. What a horrible, horrible position to be in as a young girl being raped and molested over and over and over at school by the person that when you're in confession you're literally speaking to God and you have to see the person at school and she's apparently one of the victims enlisted Sister Kathy to keep her away from her molester. Correct, So Kathy knew about everything? Was she about to blow the lid? Jimma, what can you tell me about these victims? Well, I know uh firsthand of three women who when they were girls, uh, confided in Kathy and um. The first one I know confided in December of the other two in nineteen in the spring of nineteen sixty nine. Now, Kathy left Archbishop ko to teach in a public school and to live in an apartment in the spring and June of six So for for on one hand, the girls felt like she had abandoned them, But my gut tells me that perhaps she and Russell were afraid to stay there. She told her family when they were very dismayed, that she was leaving and thinking about leaving the convent. And she told her family that it was more dangerous for her to teach at Kio than it was to teach in the city in Baltimore, which says a lot. Now, we also are aware from more than one woman that high ranking politicians and businessmen and police officers were involved in the abuse. This was a prostitution ring. This wasn't just a few girls from Kio. There were drugs involved, there were sleazy motels involved, and at everybody took care of each other. If it goes all the way to city Hall, and it did, then everybody's taking care of each other. The police are taking care of Mascal, the politicians are taking care of the businessmen and the police. Nobody talks. The police are being serviced some right at the school, coming in the fire door into Father Maskell's office where drugged and hip or hypnotized girls were there and money is exchanged. When I think that I was in that building, it makes me so angry that the only thing that divided us from that hell was a one inch door. It's appalling because we knew nothing about what was going on, and we know that, I believe much of the many of the administrators in the building knew what was happening. They refused to talk to the police. The ones that are still living, they've been told by their superior arriers not to talk. And it's not right. Somebody has to blow the whistle. This is not okay. And well, there's uh some credence, a fair bit of credence to Jimma's story because we know that Father Joseph Maskell was a chaplain and counselor there at Archbishop Kio High School. He had a brother on the police force, and there is no doubt that sister Cathy knew about the abuse. Not only did he have a brother on the police force, he was a counselor or the chaplain to the force as well, so there are a lot of connections between him and the police too. Karen Stark, Psychologists joining us out of New York. Karen, I mean, I'm Methodist, I'm not Catholic, but when I hear about a Methodist minister who has done a horrible deed, I am mortified. I think it it's just horrible because that's someone you look up to, that you trust. I consider my minister, uh who we have male and female ministers at our family church. I consider them not only friends, but confidants and someone that I would go to to pray for or with me in times of need. You know, it's hard to to take in that someone who is a person of God that we look to, that we look up to, and I do. I look up to them, even though I've heard countless stories about this priest did that, this preacher did that, this minister did and most of them. Aren't your true to think that these young girls were in this position to be raped over and over and over and Mascale was transferred from one place to the next, and now you've got a dead none. I mean, why do people why are explain the the thinking, the mindset of when you will not report molestation because it is a priest or a pastor. Well, I think it's important for you to know, Nancy, and for everyone listening that it's not just a priest or a pastor, it's anyone who is older, who's in a position. It becomes a position of authority. So if it's apparent, it doesn't matter who the person is that's doing the molestation. When you're a child, and that means if you're in elementary school or if you're in high school, you are blaming yourself and ashamed of what happened. You don't really understand end that you are not to blame in a situation like this. And it's shameful that person who wanted sister Cathy to you know, keep her from seeing the priest. I can promise you that it wasn't because she was just angry with him. She felt bad about herself, and there is a conspiracy of silence because nobody wants to come forward and reveal that this has happened to them. They believe that they have somehow contributed to this occurring, and so it's shameful on so many levels. Does that explain it? Yes, it does, Karen, And as a crime victor myself on several levels um and having dealt with so many sex attack victims, a lot of times you just don't want to talk about it and you feel that somehow it was your fault and it's shameful, and that's the way so many sex attack victims feel. And then add on the layer of the attack or getting away with it. You feel like nobody's gonna listen to you, nobody's gonna believe you, so shut the hay up. And your family may not believe you. Your family, who may be wedded to the church may consider you at fault. I mean, it's just in their minds, it's just not worth it. Jima Hoskins, isn't it true You're a senior there at Kio High School at the time sister Cathy goes missing, right? Correct? Yes? Correct? What was it like when you discover she's not at school today. What happened At the time that she disappeared. She was no longer teaching at Keio, that's teaching at Western High School in the city. But we were told that she was missing that you know, there were no cell phones and no Facebook, but our telephones on landlines. All the girls were all calling each other, and the whole community showed up at her apartment to help search, and you've seen pictures of all the police car as well. There were that many families looking as well. We were bewildered. We didn't know that perhaps she just needed to get away, Maybe she you know, just needed some space. We had no idea what happened to her. It didn't make sense. Well, was see the kind of person that needed space. Well, she kind of made her own space. But we knew nothing about the abuse, so we had nothing to assume. We none of us knew anything about what was going on at the school except the girls it was happening to. So I'm sure their mindset was very different. And I know that I've heard uh one woman say that she had confided in Kathy and it felt guilty that she might have been responsible for Kathy's daths. So none of us knew what was going on. Well, listen to this. Listen to this, Jimma with Me, Jimma Hoskins, Shane Waters, Karin Starkin, John Lmley. Guys, listen to this. This is Donna von den Bosch who suffered horrific abuse. She actually got a meager settlement with the Catholic Church. She was attacked when she was just fourteen years old by the same father Mascal. She had been a bright, excited, happy freshman at the school. And here she is on w j Z describing how she was given a drug laced soda while she was at a Catholic youth picnic and then raped by father Mescal and another priest. Listen, he was psychotic. And here's this parish priest that I've known since I was twelve, and it's also confusing. And this we go one for the next three years. She opens up to w jay Z telling how she's served a drug laced soda at a Catholic youth picnic and then raped by Father Mascoll and another priest. I'm just woozy by fall damn. He lays on top of me. He puts his legs in between my legs. To spare my legs part and rapes me. She goes on to state that at school she would hear her name called over the loud speaker telling her to report to Father Moscow's office. She said that sometimes she would go in and be raped, and sometimes he would have a coke. She will be drugged my most of the time and would be threatened. Sometimes we go in and be raped. Sometimes he would have a coke. I would be drug most of the time. He would keep guns in his top drawer. He would threaten me with them. He stole your innocence, yes, he stole your education. Yes. Did he steal your faith? Yes, because maybe I could have grown up Catholic and been happy, and I had to teach my kids you just don't trust people because they have a collar own or something. You know, monsters high you've seen the monster? Yes? Yes, How do you feel about the archdiocese? Now? This has to stop. People have to take responsibility. I hope they find um out the terrible deeds that were done and just to be served. I also hope that other survivors here that you can survive, you can move on. Don't be fooled into silence. So in my mind John Limley, the fact that the church settled. It wasn't for a lot, but they did make a forty dollars settlement for all the rapes she endured at the hands of father. And I say that with them dirt in my mouth, mescal so to me, that tells me her story is true? Or why would they have settled? And a lot of that didn't take place until twenty or so years later, two decades after the abuse. I think it would be interesting to go back to the timeline of that early November evening when Sister Cathy disappeared, uh, to bring a little bit more forward about the case. Now, a few hours went by after Sister Cathy told Sister Russell that she was going to cash her paycheck, Um, go to the bakery, maybe do a little shopping. It it's eleven o'clock. A good number of hours have gone by, and so Sister Russell becomes worried, so she calls two of their priest friends who drive over to the apartment. They eventually decide to call the police, and then they wait, and they wait for hours. In fact, at one point, um they even celebrate Mass at the at the kitchen or dining room table. Um, just hoping against hope that that sister Cathy just shows up around four or forty the next morning, it's still very dark. Uh. Sister Cathy's brand new Greenford Maverick is found with mud on it, unlocked, illegally parked just diagonally across from her apart it. And this is interesting. The back end of the vehicle is actually in the road. Um. And sister Cathy had a designated parking spot behind the apartment building, so she certainly would not have parked there. It's it's as if someone wanted that vehicle found, but there was no sign of the nun anywhere. Well, I can tell you this, John, Emily. She did not part that car that way. No, not at all. And it was several weeks. It was months later before on a cold, cold January day. Uh, sister Cathy's body is found by a hunter and his son. It was found in an informal landfill. You know. It was a landfill that was not designated as such. It's just where people went to dump stuff. Uh. It was on monumental road in a remote area of a good distance away from Cathey's apartment and after an autopsy was performed. It was revealed that Sister Cathy died from an interest rebral hemorrhage after a fracture to her skull that was inflicted by a blow to her left temple. They think by a blunt instrument. When Sister Cathy was reported that night, dozens of cops a half a dozen dog teams searched and searched a wide swath of Baltimore in that neighborhood looking for clues, headlines in the papers or city police failed to find missing none, and as John Linley is reporting, the next time she was seen, it was a horrifying site. There she was, her face covered in maggots, the body of Sister Cathy, frozen out in a field. When I look at her in her habit and then in her street clothes, she just looks so alive and so happy and so eager to teach. But it all turned into a horrific scene when she was found. Gemma, what can you tell me about another young girl who claims that she was taken by father Mescal to see as a threat Sister Cathy's body as it lie in this field. Yes, I can clarify something. Cathy's body was found there was not evidence of maggots on her face. This has been a real um issue of of what actually happened because it was January. This is horrendous. But I've done search on the life syfe cycle of maggots, and I've worked with the people that were on the body farm, which is a research place for um the decomposition, and what I learned was that because it was very warm after Cathy disappeared, when Jean was taken to see her in November, there were live maggots on her face and on her body. Now in January, there was no evidence of that. But in reading the autopsy, which I have a copy of, and by the way, warners fits and we all know who Warner s Fits is um he he explains that there were maggots in her trachea and her esophagus, so that what happens when the weather gets cold is that live maggots burrowed deeper to where it's warm. And I have to i and stay objective about this because it's very emotional for me to think that has happened to the person who was my mentor and the reason I became a teacher, because to think of her in this in this setting is just really difficult for me. But the maggots actually were not on her face, they were inside her body, and that showed up in the autopsy. You know, I find that really interesting, jim on what you're saying, because the witnesses that there were maggots, and I I believe, Jemma, you're gonna laugh. I had one of the oldest judges in the Fulton County Courthouse who was I would also like to point out the sharpest and the smartest judge I ever knew, Luther Alverson, told every jury the same jury charge. It is your duty as gerards to make all witnesses speak the truth, impugning perjury on new one, which means stories can vary to a certain degree. That doesn't mean the people are lying. That means maybe they saw it at a different angle, maybe this, maybe that. So if this, if there were maggots in her throat, hoesophagus, and this young girl is brought out to see the dead body and says, there are maggots. I don't know what she saw. Maybe she saw one. I believe that given your scenario that I think that both both witnesses are speaking the truth. But how did the girl get out there, and why did she report the dead body? Right? Well, she was taken by mask All and this was after she had been abused by him for quite a while. He told her that he knew where Cathy was. Maskell took her to see Cathy's body and at that time, because it was just a few weeks after her death, after her disappearance, there were live maggots on her face. So Gene is correct in saying that when Cathy's body was found in January, Harry, there was no evidence of maggots because it was cold and they burrowed deep into organs to get warm. Why do you believe she didn't come forward, Jemma Hoskins, Well, she was threatened with her life. Maskell said to her, you see what happens when you say bad things about people, and she was terrified. So she Jeane is the connection between the abuse and the murder. She's credible. I believe her. And when he took her there, it was to ensure her silence because she knew then that he had been responsible in some way for Kathy's death, for her murder, and that was early in his abuse career. So to every single person who had been abused by him, and we know now that that number is over a hundred. And to any nun at that fool who knew about the abuse, everybody closed their mouth. They were terrified because they knew they could be next. And I always believe that that is why Russell did not call the police, because she knew the police were involved. I think that's why she called of Cathy's friend Jerry Kobe, and the other the other brother who was a friend, because she didn't know who to turn to. I think it almost proves that the police were involved because Russell kept silent and didn't call the police. But I believe that um Jean is very credible. There's no way that she could have known that those live maggots were there unless she saw them. I think that that is very important, very important, John Limley, when I prosecute cases and I've got a witness, and I don't care if they're believable or unbelievable, or credible not credible. If I putting them on the stand, I believe them and if I can get any sintilla of evidence to support what they're saying, it is very important at trial. And Jimma Hoskins, who was a senior there at this at Keio school when sister Cathy goes missing and is killed, is describing this. That's so important. That's why I spent so much time talking about maggots. Not my favorite topic, but because they corroborate what this young girl said. That Mescal took her there and said, look what happens to people that talk about me? You could be next. And this is a detail this young girl wouldn't have just dreamed up on her own. And then years later it is. It turns out there were maggots in her esophagus, so it supports her story. It's it's so upsetting to me. Now here's another twist, another wrinkle. The body of Mascal, who later died was never going to jail, was exhumed. His d n A did not match crime scene d NA. That means nothing to me, John Limley, because I don't have any evident Sister Cathy, who by the way, was compared to Julie Andrews in Sound of Music. That's kind of personality she had, and I can just imagine her. I've been reading all the old articles in the paper. For instance, police continue a widespread search today for a pretty blue eyed year old Nune who mysteriously disappeared Friday night on a shopping expedition in the Edmonton Village area off Route forty. Sister Catherine says Nick, a member of the school Sisters of Notre Dame, reported missing early yesterday, five hours after failing to return to her apartment her sporting new car in nineteen seventy green matter Rick found during the night parked a blot from her home. It's only contents a box of buns from Muley's Bakery and a novel on native grounds. I'm just imagining her crime stories. Contributing reporter John Limley, his DNA did not match DNA at the scene. But for all I know, the DNA at the scene is DNA in the car. It could be on the car, it could be anything. It could be on the paperbag. That does not mean anything to me, Limley, Where did the DNA come from? There? Talking about the d N A was was found at the scene. That's been under wraps a little bit because even the car, the apartment, the bank, the store, the bakery, bag, the body, what what what? What? Scene? There's so there's a primaria secondary and a tertiary crime scene here, right, this was was this was found connected with a vehicle and surrounding uh Cathy's body there where they found her on that January morning. Are you sure that's where the DNA came from? Jimma, go ahead, because I'm not clear either where did the DNA come from? Okay, then came from a cigarette butt? All right? It was found at the crime scene. But at this point the police have asked me not to share exactly where at the crime scene. That's all I can say. But it was at the crime scene where her body was found. But I can't tell you specifically where because I've been asked not to. So it was where her body was, and that's still Jimma. No, We've got to keep the integrity of the investigation exactly. Jima. Here's the thing. It still means nothing to me because I don't know how that cigarette but got there. It may or may not be connected. You just can't tell me that he was not involved in some way. I will never tell you that because I believe he choreographed the whole thing. Whether he was there or not, we don't know. Yeah, I read between the lines. The cigarette but was at the crime scene, and my I my opinion is that it may have been a decoy because it hasn't matched anybody, and so perhaps you know, these guys were I think they were in cahoots. They weren't stupid. Mascal was was a monster, genius and if he involved subs, anybody could have thrown a cigarette button there from any place and everybody was going in the wrong direction. Jim, let me ask you a question. What was his personality? Was he charismatic? Was he attractive? I mean, I've looked at him. He's not attractive to me, but why were people drawn to him? Okay, Masco was charismatic in he was very brilliant. He he was very smooth, smooth talker to me. He was never physically attractive. Um. People say, you know who would play him in a in a movie, and I can't think of any He's not George Clooney, but um, very insidious, always watching. It's my understanding that he would consult with the nurse, the counselor, and the dean each week about what girls were having problems mental, physical, school, emotional, and that would be his shopping list. I hate to say it that way, but that's how He preyed on his on his victims, um girls who were having issues, girls who were upset, girls who were, you know, experimenting with drugs or we're having problems at home. He was looking for anybody that he could manipulate. And I'm not saying that all the victims were in that situation, but he was drawn to certain types of girls that he knew he would be able to manipulate. He would say Mass. He did not live at our Ti Kyo. He would come to say Mass and he was chaplain. The other priests that was there was the head of religious studies, and that was Neil Magnus. He also was abusive. He is actually the first person that some of the girls UH interacted with in confession, and then he asked them to come to his office, so he and Maskell would abuse girls together. We also know that some of the staff at the school facilitated the visits to his office by calling the girls or giving out the passes. A lot of people knew what was going on, and nobody was talking about it. And I believe Sister Kathy and Sister Russell were the only two that we're willing to do anything. So Mascow had a lot of power, but a control freak, um, a sociopath and and I believe that, uh, this man had enough power, enough skills, he fooled everybody. He fooled everybody, even his own teachers in his master's programs. Um, if there's is something I could say about this whole issue, And Nancy, thank you so much for doing this because people listen to you, and I hope that you'll continue to push for attention to this. But I want to celebrate and acknowledge all the people that have come forward, because they're well over a hundred now and many more hundreds who have contacted me. That the Keepers survivors gave them the strength and the courage to speak for the first time about being sexually abused or sexually harassed. And I think that a lot of what's happening in the public right now is due in part to the women of the Keepers. Karen start joining us out of New York. Will this case ever be solved? Why or why not? Sure? Um, if it does get solved, it will be because of all the attention that's been brought to the case because of Gemma and her fellow investigator. However, even if it never gets solved. I want to say that it's so important that it came to light and that this the victims get a chance to tell their story and get it out, and that we hope it will never happen in the future because of people like Gemma Jemma Hoskins. Final thought to me, I'm not religious, but I do have faith, and I do believe in my higher power. But to me, if evil walks the earth, it would have been him pure evil, because he could hide behind a presvestments and he could come across as being charming smart. You know, his professor at at Hopkins said he was one of the smartest people she ever met, and he fooled her because they became friends and it wasn't until near the end of his life that she realized what he was doing. So it's appalling because you know, people believe while you do what the priest says, and girls were afraid to tell. And it's a mess. It's a mess. I do believe it will be solved. I think the police it boils down to, well, you're you're attorney. It's going to be either d n a, a confession, or an eye witness, and all three of those are possible right now and the police are using new technology. They're doing further testing with DNA on the evidence that was found at the scene, and I I believe it will be solved and probably in the not too distant future. The case of the abduction and murderer of sister Kathy is still open, still unresolved. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off goodbye friend,