Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, Welcome back Nancy Grace. Here is Dennis Raider, known as BTK bind Torture Kill, a serial killer now responsible for two more murders. I say, HG L Y E S. But we got to speak even more and in more depth with the sheriff. The sheriff who is credited with keeping this case alive and finding answers.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, Welcome back Nancy Grace. Here is Dennis Raider, known as BTK bind Torture Kill, a serial killer now responsible for two more murders. I say, HG L Y E S. But we got to speak even more and in more depth with the sheriff. The sheriff who is credited with keeping this case alive and finding answers.

Take a listen, sheriff, how do you go to sleep at night with this dancing through your brain?

Take a listen, sheriff, how do you go to sleep at night with this dancing through your brain?

Well, let me tell you. My wife came in one thirty and said, you've got to get to sleep. You're going to kill yourself. Uh, but you know it's it's Nancy. I'm telling you with your experience, if you've seen I mean, we haven't even we haven't even touched the tip of the iceberg. In what I've looked. I've been eight months going through collecting, following up on and and the the information. If you looked at it, you you would be absolutely shocked and you you would know. I mean I I had a meeting and put together a slide, and I had the OSBI from Oklahoma, I had KBI from Kansas. I had numerous sheriffs from Kansas. I had the US Attorney's Office here, and I had the Oklahoma State Attorney General's office here. We figured the presentation we put together would last about two hours. We felt like it was very compelling and would show everyone, you know, the need for us to form some type of a task force and really dedicate the time that needed to be done on this case. That meeting ended up going the majority of everyone stayed for at least eight hours, some up to ten hours because of the significance of just the tip of the iceberg. And if you look at the things I mean, we went through his maps. James is an incredible person with more dedication than I can say. And again I'm dealing with day to day and I've kept James focused on this and he's in there going through stuff. He's he's made maps where and you know, we we have no idea how much other law enforcement has done because you know, we've only been accessing what we can access when we can get it. And we made a map of missing people or unsolved cases just off of the map that Dennis provided and then as we did as we did that, then we looked at at you know what the victims were wearing their description and compared them. He has got a ton of the of drawings and notations and letters and poems and and just unbelievable things. But going through that, we found you know, not only cases that that that matched his map, but but but other items that particularly show the description of the victim down to colors of their shirts, matching hair color, hairstyles. I mean, it is it's it's unbelievable and uh, you know this thing is uh is really really amaze me of and disappointed me. You know, I was hoping when we find an ADT schedule and be able to really in and out, but we got one letter that says we don't have any records. H I mean, it goes on and on and on, but but you know it's just you know, like like there's an Oklahoma. I was telling you that that he talked about his senses time and and in his timeline it's the busiest time to his life, which he told me in person. You know, he couldn't be his self at home because he had to be the the church deacon and the dad and the husband and keep his his his his role as that. But then when he was out on the road he got to be BTK and have his hotel parties. He described breaking and enterings, prowling, window peeping, all all all over the Oklahoma Canus border.

Well, let me tell you. My wife came in one thirty and said, you've got to get to sleep. You're going to kill yourself. Uh, but you know it's it's Nancy. I'm telling you with your experience, if you've seen I mean, we haven't even we haven't even touched the tip of the iceberg. In what I've looked. I've been eight months going through collecting, following up on and and the the information. If you looked at it, you you would be absolutely shocked and you you would know. I mean I I had a meeting and put together a slide, and I had the OSBI from Oklahoma, I had KBI from Kansas. I had numerous sheriffs from Kansas. I had the US Attorney's Office here, and I had the Oklahoma State Attorney General's office here. We figured the presentation we put together would last about two hours. We felt like it was very compelling and would show everyone, you know, the need for us to form some type of a task force and really dedicate the time that needed to be done on this case. That meeting ended up going the majority of everyone stayed for at least eight hours, some up to ten hours because of the significance of just the tip of the iceberg. And if you look at the things I mean, we went through his maps. James is an incredible person with more dedication than I can say. And again I'm dealing with day to day and I've kept James focused on this and he's in there going through stuff. He's he's made maps where and you know, we we have no idea how much other law enforcement has done because you know, we've only been accessing what we can access when we can get it. And we made a map of missing people or unsolved cases just off of the map that Dennis provided and then as we did as we did that, then we looked at at you know what the victims were wearing their description and compared them. He has got a ton of the of drawings and notations and letters and poems and and just unbelievable things. But going through that, we found you know, not only cases that that that matched his map, but but but other items that particularly show the description of the victim down to colors of their shirts, matching hair color, hairstyles. I mean, it is it's it's unbelievable and uh, you know this thing is uh is really really amaze me of and disappointed me. You know, I was hoping when we find an ADT schedule and be able to really in and out, but we got one letter that says we don't have any records. H I mean, it goes on and on and on, but but you know it's just you know, like like there's an Oklahoma. I was telling you that that he talked about his senses time and and in his timeline it's the busiest time to his life, which he told me in person. You know, he couldn't be his self at home because he had to be the the church deacon and the dad and the husband and keep his his his his role as that. But then when he was out on the road he got to be BTK and have his hotel parties. He described breaking and enterings, prowling, window peeping, all all all over the Oklahoma Canus border.

What do you mean by hotel parties? What hotel parties?

What do you mean by hotel parties? What hotel parties?

Okay, So some of the pictures that he made, he would again dress up, you know, in women's clothing, wigs, masks, and bondage and take his own pictures inside those hotels, like the one you showed where he was hanging in the tree. Yes, okay, we have located the spot. We've we've been with that sheriff's department. We've located a document that he made describing that day, everything he took, what he did when he created that, and that's a special area of his and that's an area that will be searched, you know, in the near future. Uh. One example, craziest thing I ever heard. I I actually brought that up to him, and you know what his response was, what he actually said this. He said, he said, well, well, if you find something there that that won't mean anything, because every killer used that spot.

Okay, So some of the pictures that he made, he would again dress up, you know, in women's clothing, wigs, masks, and bondage and take his own pictures inside those hotels, like the one you showed where he was hanging in the tree. Yes, okay, we have located the spot. We've we've been with that sheriff's department. We've located a document that he made describing that day, everything he took, what he did when he created that, and that's a special area of his and that's an area that will be searched, you know, in the near future. Uh. One example, craziest thing I ever heard. I I actually brought that up to him, and you know what his response was, what he actually said this. He said, he said, well, well, if you find something there that that won't mean anything, because every killer used that spot.

Unbelievable, unbelievable.

Unbelievable, unbelievable.

And me, me and me and one of the guys that was with me after that conversation. You know, we're going back and I mean, it's just unbelievables. Like you know, we're we're picturing the john Wick Assassin Hotel.

And me, me and me and one of the guys that was with me after that conversation. You know, we're going back and I mean, it's just unbelievables. Like you know, we're we're picturing the john Wick Assassin Hotel.

You know.

You know.

He said you would go to that, you trip over other killers, you know where you were trying to get your time in there. I mean, it's just insane. And you know, at that location we haven't released it. But in a silo we found a button to a blouse and the middle part had been torn off, so a shirt had been ripped open or torn which would cause that to break off. And there's no reason that we can think of for it to be in that location. Why a female would be inside of a silo and have something occurred in a grain silo that would cause her button to be ripped off of her shirt. So, you know, we've got so many things that that. But you can imagine, nobody in law enforcement wants to touch BTK. Now, you know, when I go in to talk to a sheriff, they you know a lot of times run plumb backwards because they don't want anything to do with that because of the baggage that comes along with this type of investigation. But my victim needs justice, and her family needs answers. And I met with her parents years ago, and I had done other things on this case, and I promise them if I got anything, I would follow up to the end of the earth to get those answers. I don't want to work McDonald County things. I don't want to work other things. I just want to find my girl. But you know how these cases are. It's again a domino effect. If I can get anything that's going to cause a chain of events that will will possibly reveal the location of my victim and get my case posed and my answers.

He said you would go to that, you trip over other killers, you know where you were trying to get your time in there. I mean, it's just insane. And you know, at that location we haven't released it. But in a silo we found a button to a blouse and the middle part had been torn off, so a shirt had been ripped open or torn which would cause that to break off. And there's no reason that we can think of for it to be in that location. Why a female would be inside of a silo and have something occurred in a grain silo that would cause her button to be ripped off of her shirt. So, you know, we've got so many things that that. But you can imagine, nobody in law enforcement wants to touch BTK. Now, you know, when I go in to talk to a sheriff, they you know a lot of times run plumb backwards because they don't want anything to do with that because of the baggage that comes along with this type of investigation. But my victim needs justice, and her family needs answers. And I met with her parents years ago, and I had done other things on this case, and I promise them if I got anything, I would follow up to the end of the earth to get those answers. I don't want to work McDonald County things. I don't want to work other things. I just want to find my girl. But you know how these cases are. It's again a domino effect. If I can get anything that's going to cause a chain of events that will will possibly reveal the location of my victim and get my case posed and my answers.

You know, Sheriff, I'm just so so inspired that you are. You call these people the same thing I called my people my victims, And you know, I've never heard anybody else say that in my life beside me. When you say my victim, I mean, that tells me how much this means to you.

You know, Sheriff, I'm just so so inspired that you are. You call these people the same thing I called my people my victims, And you know, I've never heard anybody else say that in my life beside me. When you say my victim, I mean, that tells me how much this means to you.

Oh it does. And believe me, I won't stop off push as long and far as I can. And you know, I'm quite certain at this point I probably made a lot of other law enforcement upset, you know. But but again, you've got to him. That's that's why you know, we we didn't release anything to me. The first time I talked to him, he called the reporter out of New York and they called me and I tried to talk him. You know, hey, you know this is just routine. There might not be any here. You know, I don't want to open wounds. But of course, you know, the story ran and caught some some buzz off that, but then died down, and we of course had continued. You know, we had done two prior digs at two different locations, one in Kansas, and we're lucky to not catch any attention on those. And you know, because it makes it easy to move around a lot of people when they see the media buzz, they don't want to talk to you because they're afraid. You know, they're going to walk out to get their mail and there's going to be fifteen different media outlets chasing around. Ask some questions. You know, when you run up and you know this because you've been there. You know, you take a little couple that's been through forty some years of misery, not knowing where their baby is, details wondering, you know, and they go to get their mail and somebody comes running up and says, how do you feel Nancy? You know how they're terrible.

Oh it does. And believe me, I won't stop off push as long and far as I can. And you know, I'm quite certain at this point I probably made a lot of other law enforcement upset, you know. But but again, you've got to him. That's that's why you know, we we didn't release anything to me. The first time I talked to him, he called the reporter out of New York and they called me and I tried to talk him. You know, hey, you know this is just routine. There might not be any here. You know, I don't want to open wounds. But of course, you know, the story ran and caught some some buzz off that, but then died down, and we of course had continued. You know, we had done two prior digs at two different locations, one in Kansas, and we're lucky to not catch any attention on those. And you know, because it makes it easy to move around a lot of people when they see the media buzz, they don't want to talk to you because they're afraid. You know, they're going to walk out to get their mail and there's going to be fifteen different media outlets chasing around. Ask some questions. You know, when you run up and you know this because you've been there. You know, you take a little couple that's been through forty some years of misery, not knowing where their baby is, details wondering, you know, and they go to get their mail and somebody comes running up and says, how do you feel Nancy? You know how they're terrible.

It's terrible, you.

It's terrible, you.

Know, you don't even I mean, that's that's of course, that's where we live in today, you know, And that's why I try to push people, you know, to respect those families. And Carrie, Carrie is a phenomenal, phenomenal person. And Carrie is a true victim, just as she's as much of a victim as as the family members of the murdered people, and not just her but her whole family. You know, I've been fortunate enough to to to visit with one other family member, and I can tell you the pain and the hurt and the things they lived with. I mean, can you imagine, you know, you you have nothing to do with, no knowledge't didn't didn't have anything. But anytime you go anywhere, you're not you your bt k's brother, or your bt k's daughter, your bt k's son, or your bt k's wife. You know, if if if b t k's grandkids, you know, are in school and people find out, what what what are those other kids do? And then if they if they have friends and they say, hey, can I go over and stay the night there? What?

Know, you don't even I mean, that's that's of course, that's where we live in today, you know, And that's why I try to push people, you know, to respect those families. And Carrie, Carrie is a phenomenal, phenomenal person. And Carrie is a true victim, just as she's as much of a victim as as the family members of the murdered people, and not just her but her whole family. You know, I've been fortunate enough to to to visit with one other family member, and I can tell you the pain and the hurt and the things they lived with. I mean, can you imagine, you know, you you have nothing to do with, no knowledge't didn't didn't have anything. But anytime you go anywhere, you're not you your bt k's brother, or your bt k's daughter, your bt k's son, or your bt k's wife. You know, if if if b t k's grandkids, you know, are in school and people find out, what what what are those other kids do? And then if they if they have friends and they say, hey, can I go over and stay the night there? What?

What?

What?

What has had the world's parents going to say, you see what I'm saying. I mean, people need to realize that that that that the suspects families are are more often than not.

What has had the world's parents going to say, you see what I'm saying. I mean, people need to realize that that that that the suspects families are are more often than not.

Have been through hell and the embarrassment and the shame attached to it much less. We know the guy's a serial killer. How do you think he treated them growing up? I mean, Carrie told me how awful he was to live with. Can you even imagine?

Have been through hell and the embarrassment and the shame attached to it much less. We know the guy's a serial killer. How do you think he treated them growing up? I mean, Carrie told me how awful he was to live with. Can you even imagine?

Oh? Absolutely? But but it's it's harder on on Carrie and the family than it is on the victims' families because you know, when the victim's family goes somewhere, people have compassion because of what they went through. But but when when the suspects family goes places, you know, it's a whole different deal. They're they're they're they're shunned, they're talked about, they're whispered about, and and they're carrying a harder burder and people just really need I think.

Oh? Absolutely? But but it's it's harder on on Carrie and the family than it is on the victims' families because you know, when the victim's family goes somewhere, people have compassion because of what they went through. But but when when the suspects family goes places, you know, it's a whole different deal. They're they're they're they're shunned, they're talked about, they're whispered about, and and they're carrying a harder burder and people just really need I think.

The victims family might disagree with you, because at.

The victims family might disagree with you, because at.

Least they're all alive.

Least they're all alive.

So it's that's a toss up who was You know, everybody suffered, everybody has suffered.

So it's that's a toss up who was You know, everybody suffered, everybody has suffered.

I agree, don't don't don't get me wrong, I'm not downplaying that, But I'm saying victims' family has got compassion, where where somebody like Carrie. You know, Carrie has told me she plans on advocating for victims as many years as Dennis tormented society, just trying to clear their name and do good. Where somebody did that, you know, and you've got to admire somebody that's done that. I can tell you she has been a tremendous asset to us. And if you go back and look at some of her early releases when this information broke, when Dennis put it out, you know, I mean, she was like, I don't believe he did any of this. And then you know, through through time we ended up with her actually getting to see some of the information we got, and you know, she left here, I believe in a better position personally. But not only that, she revealed a lot of really really good information, because some of the notations, when you're looking at him as a person not knowing everything, it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense exactly. But if you go those items with her, she can bring them to life and fill in the gaps and make it make perfect sense. She's the only outwitness, so you know, it's tremendous, and you know, I would love to bring some experts in because you know, the more recognition that they have, the more credibility they have, the more crackh this is going to get that is going to get the investigation done that needs to be done. You know, I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but Dennis talked for thirty hours basically, and lawyered up and then never never talked again. So the items collected in these search warrants, he was never interviewed, item to items, and I've had an offe opportunity to go through some of these items with him that he hadn't seen since his arrest. And you can imagine how that was. But trying to get questions, you know, I mean, it's you know, there's things he can't explain off at all. You know, he's got kidnappings marked, not murders, but kidnapping marked in a certain time period. And I have found letters from people claiming to be victims that match his timeline and we're in the process of running them down.

I agree, don't don't don't get me wrong, I'm not downplaying that, But I'm saying victims' family has got compassion, where where somebody like Carrie. You know, Carrie has told me she plans on advocating for victims as many years as Dennis tormented society, just trying to clear their name and do good. Where somebody did that, you know, and you've got to admire somebody that's done that. I can tell you she has been a tremendous asset to us. And if you go back and look at some of her early releases when this information broke, when Dennis put it out, you know, I mean, she was like, I don't believe he did any of this. And then you know, through through time we ended up with her actually getting to see some of the information we got, and you know, she left here, I believe in a better position personally. But not only that, she revealed a lot of really really good information, because some of the notations, when you're looking at him as a person not knowing everything, it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense exactly. But if you go those items with her, she can bring them to life and fill in the gaps and make it make perfect sense. She's the only outwitness, so you know, it's tremendous, and you know, I would love to bring some experts in because you know, the more recognition that they have, the more credibility they have, the more crackh this is going to get that is going to get the investigation done that needs to be done. You know, I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but Dennis talked for thirty hours basically, and lawyered up and then never never talked again. So the items collected in these search warrants, he was never interviewed, item to items, and I've had an offe opportunity to go through some of these items with him that he hadn't seen since his arrest. And you can imagine how that was. But trying to get questions, you know, I mean, it's you know, there's things he can't explain off at all. You know, he's got kidnappings marked, not murders, but kidnapping marked in a certain time period. And I have found letters from people claiming to be victims that match his timeline and we're in the process of running them down.

Thank you so much, Sheriff All eyes on this investigation. Good Ques

Thank you so much, Sheriff All eyes on this investigation. Good Ques