Creature FeatureCrocodilians may have a somewhat intimidating appearance, but that doesn't mean they don't have feelings! We talk about why it's not cool to bop crocs on the nose with a shovel unless you're about to get eaten.
Welcome to Creature feature production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology, and today on this show, hey don't be mean to crocodiles. I saw a video going around of someone bonking crocodiles on the nose with a shovel, and hey, that sucks. So today we are gonna talk about this video. We're gonna talk about why these poor crocs do not deserve a bonk to the nose. We're gonna talk about what the heck is going on in that viral video, and why crocodile crocodilians are actually sweet babies who just want to have fun and will only sometimes eat you discover this is more as we answer the age old question, are crocodiles really that into polyamory? Joining me today is someone who is actually nice to crocodile's friend of the show, producer, host of podcast Rough Stuff as well as Shooting Threes. Welcome Bridget Greenberg.
Hello, Thank you for mentioning my niceness to crocodiles. It is something that should be known about me. Frind to crocodile.
We all know Bridget we're like Bridget you know, she can be real tough on set, but she's real nice to crocodiles.
Real nice to crocodiles, A real softy when it comes to them crocs.
That's right, that's right. But you are you did you hail from Fair Florida, So Florida, Yes, Fair Florida. So you you've probably like wrastled some alligators.
I've I've I've had some. Yeah, I've seen it. There was a weird section in school where they taught us gator safety. I'm not really yeah, they I'm not really. You know Miami, They they tend to stay away from the big city, but for some reason we still learned gator safety. Which I've talked to someone and heard everything that I learned was wrong.
Okay, what it was? Some of the wrong stuff you learned.
And none of this has been I'm not sure I now. I just don't know. But I heard they have really bad peripheral vision, so you want to run in zigzags if you are trying to run away from one, and which I feel like if they're going to attack you, they're going to do it in the water, not on land. You have to really mess up if they're trying to attack you on land. It's been interesting.
You get chomped on by alligators every so often happens. It's usually someone being I don't want a victim blame, but doing something they probably shouldn't be doing.
They're a little close, that's the thing. You don't really have to ever get that close to them. Yeah, you know, if you see a swamp, it's not like you want to go swimming in the swamp.
Yeah, Like, if.
That's where they're hanging out.
Like, if you see an alligator, don't go up to it, don't get an the water with it, you know. Yeah, that's gonna be like like you're gonna avoid ninety nine percent of the danger if you just don't go up to an alligator and swim with it.
Yeah, yeah, it didn't. I wasn't that afraid of running into one. But I did, you know along road trips run in two see some along the highway, did the fanboat tours and the Elverglades, Yeah, saw some there.
Well. Don't and don't pick up hitchhiking alligators, Like that's another one. Don't pick up hitchhikers.
Don't And if you are a hitchhiker, and they will try.
Yeah, and don't get into a van with a bunch of alligators and there you go, easy, easy, easy to avoid. But what we are talking about is that sometimes people, I guess, have a hard time empathizing with crocodilions. When I say crocodilians, I mean crocodiles and alligators and timon and gariols and they because you know, they do look sort of like mindless reptilian carnivores. I get that, But let's talk about it because there is a video going around. My best guess about the species is that their bunch of Siamese crocodiles, they are resting on a sandy bank and they get chased around by a man into the water. In any crocodile who doesn't run away gets hit on the snout with a metal shovel. And I think a lot of people find this funny, but I think it is kind of sad because it's you know, if we saw like a video of this of say, I don't know, any other any kind of furry mammal, right, like say this was a bunch of lions getting hit in the face with a shovel, have same amount of danger, but I don't know that we'd find it funny.
Yeah, just because they big lizards doesn't mean they don't have feelings exactly exactly.
Uh yeah, I mean, so are you looking at this video?
Bridge, I'm seeing this video and like, yeah, it's I don't think this is fun.
Yeah yeah, I mean, like me, look if this was fake, right, like if this was fake crocodiles and there was if it was like a crocodile dial that was cgi stepping on a rake and then the rake hits it in the face, that would be funny because that's theater. But this is real crocodiles getting hit on the face with a shovel. I don't think that's funny. And I think that there is a I guess it's like, you know, it's just people struggle to empathize with animals unless their faces are something we can relate to, right, like you know, like you think about an animal that is similar in terms of danger to crocodiles, because I saw some people saying like, well, it's funny because they would try to eat you, if you know. But if it was bears, right, like grizzly bears, and you saw a video of them getting hit in the face. I think people would be much more outraged by that.
Yeah, just because something isn't friend shape doesn't mean you should boop it on the nose with a shovel, exactly.
And just because something is friend shaped doesn't mean that it is your friend also, yeah, vice versa. Yeah exactly, And I'm not I'm not saying that you should befriend crocodile, but you don't need to hit it with a shovel.
They mostly just want a sunbathe. That's an understanding. Like they just want to take naps in the sun pretty much. It Yeah, and eat but not you.
Yeah, I mean they will if you like they will if you if you chase it and you get in the water with them, they might eat you. But it's again, they're probably not going to like run after you to on the land to try to eat you. That's just not you probably seem a little big. Most of the like victims to It's like the really big crocodiles, like nile crocodiles do sometimes eat people just because they're so they're such big crocodiles. But you know, most alligators don't really want to. I don't really want to but they they will, so don't like go up to one and hog it. But because that's like I mean, imagine if like a burger ran up to you and like tried to nuzzle you, you'd be like, well, okay, and then you'd eat that burger.
Yeah, I h I don't know if I would, but burger tried to cuddle me. If a burger moved, I don't think I'd want to eat it, but that happen.
I guess for me, it depends on what kind of burger. If it's got like mayonnaise and pickles on it, I don't want that anyways, I'm not gonna eat it.
But yeah, yeah, I'm not into moving burgers. But you know that's a weird thing about that. I'm picky like that.
Well you know, I guess you're you could be then qualified as like a vegetarian in crocodile terms. So yes, I looked at this video because I wanted to figure out what was going on, and uh, this is my detailed analysis. I from what I can tell that fascinated. Yes, these crocodiles are in and and clothes, and so my guess would be that this is a crocodile farm. It is most likely to be in Thailand, given that this is the country with the most crocodile farms. But there are crocodile farms all over the world, including in the US, like in States in Louisiana. But yeah, so it could be anywhere in the world. But my guess, right, just statistically, this is probably a crocodile farm in Thailand. And yeah, there are crocodile and alligator farms, and these are mainly funded by demand for their skin, you know, like alligator skin products, but the meat can also be sold and sometimes the farms are open to tourists, so they might get money from tourists from the meat and from the skin.
Yeah. Uh, I didn't know. Well, I guess I could have figured it out because I've eaten crocodile or I've eat an alligator. I'd eat an alligator. I've never eaten crocodile.
What does alligator taste like?
Exactly like chicken?
Oh?
Really, it's a it's a white meat and it looks and tastes exactly like chicken.
That makes sense they're related, actually, because like.
That's that kind of Yeah, it kind of like closes the loop for me on the dinosaurs is birds.
Yeah, birds are the only remaining dinosaurs, and crocodiles are related to dinosaurs. They crocodiles are not dinosaurs, but they are one of the closest relatives actually, Like like I would say crocodiles are more closely related to birds than they are to say a lot of modern reptile species.
Yeah. That uh, that's the thing that is hard to wrap your head around by looking at the two things. And then you eat it and it makes a ton of sense. This is why you really gotta eat it.
Some education that can happen, like when Darwin and all those animals, it's like, look, I'm doing science.
There. There was a video. This is a this is a tangent. There's a video going around round of chef Jose Andreas talking about wanting to eat the sandworms in dune and that's all I can pay.
But they taste like shrimp. Oh yeah, that's my GiB.
Probably he was talking about like fileying it and putting it on our barbecue. So yeah, probably probably shrimp.
If anyone would that, I bet you would be able to see like the entire future of the universe. And also it would taste like shrimp.
The future is shrimp.
The future is shrimp. Yes, But I'm actually not like one hundred percent against farming crocodiles or alligators, because you know, like I think that you could potentially have a farm that is humane right, like not treating the animals poorly, and the ecological impacts of crocodile farming is probably less than that of like farming cattle, and so you know, there's also like an argument to be made that there will always be a demand for crocodilian skin and that farming could cut down on illegal poaching of endangered animals. So I'm not actually completely opposed to these farms. I think it highly depends on how these animals are treated, and so you shouldn't hit them in the face with a shovel. That This is exactly I think. I think all farms, right for any kind of animal needs to be as humane as possible, which we definitely fail at with like concentrated animal feeding operations CAFOs, Like we really suck at having humane farms when it comes to animals that are not alligators or crocodiles, And so you know, when it comes to alligators and crocodiles, we should also be careful, like just be nice, just being nice, you know, just be nice. And I know that it's like, oh, but you're killing them eventually, so what does it matter. It matters a lot, Like an animal can suffer, including crocodilions, So like, you know, their life should be nice up until you know, like.
Anything else, we all die.
We do all die, and it's so.
It would be yeah nice, you would enjoy life, you know, enjoy your life here.
Yes, Like I get that they're predators and they kill other things, but like again it's it's there's no reason to make them suffer before, like if we are farming them and we are going to kill them, like we should give them a good life before they die, because we're humans and we get to decide to not suck.
Yeah, this is like this guy is just playing like Sonic with these alligators. Yeah, and uh, that doesn't seem fair.
You know what, But you said Sonic. But Mario actually has the worst track record when it comes to reptiles, right because he's always stopping on them turtles.
He's stopping on turtles. He I mean, I don't know what the deal is with Yoshi, but he I mean, I don't know if Yoshi seems to like getting written.
Bridget I'm clipping that and gonna play it out of context.
Yeah, yep, yep, Yeah that feels fair. That's fair. I'll allow it. Well you kind of, yeah, Yoshi asked for it, esus, so Yoshi.
Look, we're gonna let's say that Yoshi and Mario are in a inequitable it's consensual. But I don't think it's consensual when he stomps on them turtles.
No, for sure not. I don't think those turtle shells like being thrown and blown out, stuffed with explosives. I assume I don't.
I guess I don't know as much about Mario as I thought I I haven't.
Yeah, yeah, I haven't done that deep dive. But something's going on with them shells. Yeah, with them blue shells, with them shells, Yeah, them blue shells. Something something up with them. Don't don't get those yeah in your car. There's actually I recently read that Florida doesn't have crocodile. Crocodiles I think only exist in Asia and Africa, but a bunch of them got loose out of a Fort Lauderdale zoo and are now inhabiting the swamps of Florida, which I assume is a bad thing. Yeah, I mean.
You just don't want invasive species, right, Like boa constrictors and pythons that are in Florida are invasive, and so the problem with invasive species is that they just take resources or directly eat or out compete the native animals. So yeah, it's not great to have invasive crocodiles.
In any capacity. Yeah, this also maybe is a sidebar, but feels like a great platform because since there are other reptiles that seem to have taken over Florida, like the lizard when I go back to Miami now, the like little geckos to tiny lizards have completely change. There are different species of lizards that have overtaken the ones in Florida that I grew that tiny little green ones. There are these like cuban curly tailed brown lizards now that have completely eradicated the old lizards.
Iguanas are everywhere. Whoa like these are like pet iguanas that escaped, And there.
Are pet iguanas. I think there are some that might have swam over or got down shipping containers and came over. But yeah, there are iguanas everywhere. They're very invasive. They burrow into sea walls and like ruin infrastructure, and you are supposed to kill them if you can, which is a very Florida sounding rule that feels very dangerous, but it is okay to kill them. And they are, like I said, everywhere, So they are just like on the streets, roaming around and it's kind of free open season on them.
So apparently. Also, there are some crocodiles that are in Florida. They're not necessarily native there, but their range has extended so they're not like invasive in the sense of like they weren't brought over by like you know, illegal pet trade. Because there are some crocodiles in South America, but because of like canal systems, they they have made their way to a sort of the the southernmost tip of Florida.
Yeah. Yeah, I saw someone. I was in Costa Rica and I was surprised to see them there, crocodiles and they are.
They get around? Am I crazy?
Are they bigger than alligators?
It depends, It depends on the species. Some alligators are going to be bigger than crocodiles. Some crocodiles are going to be bigger than alligators. I think like the biggest species of crocodilian is probably a crocodile. I think it might be the the nile. Crocodiles like the largest, but like the main thing. I think the main like way you can kind of tell the difference between the alligator versus the rocdile. Yes, you can guess, can I this is my this is my Florida education.
It's a snout, right, it's a snout. Crocodiles have the round or shorter snout, and alligators have like a longer, pointier snout.
That's right, Yes, let's go.
So, so they weren't.
Wait actually wait you said alligators have the rounder snout or they.
No, no other way around. Crocodiles have the rounder snout.
No, actually, okay, so crocodiles actually have the more tapered snout and alligators have the rounder snout.
Okay, they have they they have like a little bulb guy at the end.
So uh the yeah, so actually, so crocodiles I think are the ones that have more of the like kind of a tapered snout but also like the kind of bowlby thing at the and the alligators are the ones with the more just like it's a smooth but rounded snout, but kind of broader and bigger.
I knew someone with a snout and I'll count it. I'm going to count it. Baby.
Also, you can crocodile. See, So with alligators when the mouth is closed, you can only see the upper teeth, and with the crocodiles you can see some some of the lower teeth when the mouth is closed as well.
Which, yeah, I'm going to give cute points to the alligator of crocodile for that. It does give it like a dirty look.
I would say alligators tend to be cuter to me personally.
They are, Yes, they are cute when they are little too. I've held I've held a baby gator.
The sound that they make is quite adorable.
The little yeah, yeah, very very they they're yeah they it's like a little bird squawk. But yeah, I have held a baby alligator. What how why when I don't think it was cool? Holding the baby alligator was cool, But I don't think it was cool of me as like a twelve year old to do that.
At some better bridget God, at.
Some like Everglade field trip that we went on.
Wait was just a wild baby. Like, what do you mean, like.
It wasn't I guess say, like it was like a rehab facility, sanctuary for injured injured gator.
Okay, that's all right, but they gave you permission to hold it.
They Yeah, they gave us a hold.
That's okay. That's if it's a rehab since or like a sanctuary and they allowed the allowed you guys to hold it. I think that's probably okay.
We're gonna go ahead and assume it was safe at the time.
Let's say it's probably okay. I again, don't just go out and pick up an alligator, even a baby wan first of all, because you know, unless you know, like they probably had hopefully they had you wash your hands before and after. But also, like you know, in addition to spreading diseases too and from the alligators, it might stress them out in that situation because they're not used to humans, Like if you just pick one up from the wild. Also, like moms don't like that. We're gonna talk extensively about alligator parents and how much they love their children. So I wouldn't do it just for your own safety, Like if you're hassling a little baby you're like this is adorable. Like mom might be nearby and it might hear that little yeah and then like hey this and.
That's when you're in trouble with the gators.
That's right, This like very edible person is hassling my child. There seems to be one solution that I have that can solve a couple of problems what to make for dinner and get rid of this threat to my baby.
Was Okay, maybe I'm like a cross referencing my information between everything I've seen online that is probably wrong and this poor gator education that I got. But also there, I know their top jaws snap quite ferociously, but they can't move their bottom jaw too.
Well, it's that, I mean, I think.
It's a downward force it.
Yes, it's that the muscles are not used to like opening up with a lot of force, but there's a lot of downward force.
Because yeah, there was something about like putting pressure on the snout.
Yeah, if you like tell like that's why when they're relocating alligators or crocodiles, they can just like tape the snout shut and they're like that, then the alligators just is just well, you've found my one weakness scotch tape.
Right. I yeah, I do remember this lesson thinking if I'm if I'm that close that I have to hold this thing snout shut. It's probably bad for.
Me, it's probably bad for you. But hey, you know what, just don't get that close to them.
Just don't get that close. And then it was very easy. It was very easy not to get that close.
That's right, that's right. But let's let's recap. Don't hit alligators or crocodiles with shovel. Alligators have the rounded snowt. Crocodiles have the point to your snoot. It's annoying because you would think that, like there's a cool newmonic where it's like alligators have the A shaped snowt and crocodiles have the C shaped snowt. Nope, opposite.
Very easy to get confused.
Yeah, crocodiles you can see bigger smiles. That mnemonic kind of works, right because you can see both sets of teeth, right, Alligators only the top teeth. And yeah, let's let's take a quick break, and when we get back, I want to talk about. Another reason to empathize with crocodilians is that they like to have a good time and it's adorable. So we will be right back. Bridget. You know what is this? You know, you know what, there's something that unites crocodiles and girls do.
They just want to have fun.
They just want to have fun. Let's go there, we go. I mean, honestly, like all genders like to have fun, and all crocodilians also seem to like to have fun. So let's get into it. Crocodiles have been observed playing around, just fooling around. It's very cute. So the research on this is pretty thin for reasons that I think are probably self explanatory, like trying to get crocodiles in a lab difficult, trying to measure fun, Trying to measure fun very subjective, trying to observe of crocodiles and alligators stealthily also difficult. Yeah, so and directly playing with them ill advised. Only one guy has done it without, as far as I know, getting chomped on. So yeah, let's well, let's talk about it. So these are all basically like anecdotes or observation of individuals, but they add up to a picture that I think is pretty compelling. That these crocodilians are having fun and are playing around. So there is a baby kymen that was observed at the Santa Cruz Zoo in Bolivia repeatedly surfing a current created by the man made filter in his enclosure. So there's like a filter and it's you know, shooting water out of a jet. So this like kyman was playing in the water jet and it would essentially swim up to the water jet, let it like push it back, and then swim back up to the water jet and let it push it back.
That's so sweet.
Yeah, little baby things that it's doing. A cute little.
Baby I feel like, I mean probably in a zoo or some sort of enclosure, I would imagine they get a little bit more bored, yeah, than they would trying to survive out in the swamp or creek or river and have to entertain themselves. And that's very sweet. Yeah, I guess we you're saying we haven't seen them do that in the wild at all, but that's more because it's difficult.
Well, I think we have actually seen them playing in the wild. It is easier to observe them in zoos just because we're there. But there was an esture and crocodile who was seen apparently surfing the waves in Port Douglas, Australia.
So horrifying as a surfer right next to a crocodile.
But hey, you know that would also possibly be radical.
Yeah, yeah, pretty cool. Yeah, yeah there. I think as a surfer there are a lot of things you can expect to see with you. Yeah, sharks, jellyfish, sharks, dolphins, Yeah, jellyfish, sting rays, stuff like that. For a croc would surprise me, yeah for sure. But you know, I'm glad they're getting out there.
Hey, they have every right to to the waves, is anyone else you know that's surfing? Sure, you gotta take turns on the waves.
And it also you gotta take turns, you gotta respect the lineup.
That's right.
I you said play, and that was, of course the way you said it made sense that it was more like they're playing in surf and with currents and swimming. I was having a really hard time picturing them playing because their arms are so little, So I was trying to like picture like two of them playing together, right.
Fights, tiny arms, slappy fights, because.
Playing like biting or whatever, like you might see like a dog or a mammal kind of do like play biting. Yeah, it doesn't seem like it would be playful with those snouts, so I was kind of just picturing little, yeah, tiny alligator.
Arms, little slaps, your thing makes more sense. Yeah, actually, you know you mentioned that, like you think that they wouldn't do play bites, but apparently they can. In fact, they have very good control over the pressure of their bites. We'll talk about that later why they have such good control in the when we talk about them being good parents. But yeah, there's a cuban crocodile at the Toledo Zoo that repeatedly would attack and push around a large ball and like blow bubbles at it. And apparently so blowing bubbles is like usually a mating behavior, but there was no evidence that the crocodile's trying to hump the ball because also crocodiles wouldn't attack their mate, like after blowing bubbles at it. It seemed like it was just kind of like having fun with this ball, and it was like, yeah, just like pushing it around, blowing bubbles at it, chomping on it.
That's very sweet.
There was like anhing them.
Blow bubbles is also a funny image.
It sounds really cute. It's like, you know, blowing bubbles in your drink as a kid. Yeah, but you're a big crocodile.
And also sexy bubbles. Sexy bubbles.
Hey, you know what, there's nothing more sensual like when you're in the tub with your lover and then they start blowing bubbles.
Yeah, crocs get it? Did they play with the ch other?
Yes?
Or okay, yes.
They have been observed playing with each other doing things like hitching rides. That seems to be like a big thing that they like to do. Is like they like to give themselves piggyback rides from like mate siblings or other members of a crush. A crush is like a crocodilian nursery. They're not all necessarily related, but they could all grow up together and then basically just have fun together. They can also like chase each other around in like little circles, just like you know, like how dogs do just like chasing each other around. And a rare case, I know, it's so cute having a good time. Man. In rare cases, they are exactly like people. They have sometimes been observed playing with other species rather than eating them. I can't emphasize enough how rare this is. So please don't like let your dog go towards an alligator a crocodile, and also don't you do that either, because you know very likely that the alligator is just gonna be like sweet free snow or be scared and you know, bite you out of fears. So there, But there was this case, a famous case of a tame American crocodile in Costa Rica named Pocho who he was rescued by this guy. This guy basically raised it and then released it, and so he like loved this human. Apparently he would like sort of do these like mock charges at him, and then the guy would turn around, and then the crocodile is like, hey, just kidding, and he'd swim around with this guy and like let the guy pet him and cuddle him. This is like probably a once and like one in a million, once in a lifetime sort of thing to happen. This is not going to be your experience with crocodiles, but it is really really interesting to see that like this crocodile just is like, hey, you'r a body. Basically I think probably saw this guy as like another crocodile.
That is so cool. I would be so curious to hear from that guy the experience of learning that this crocodile was trying to play with it, Yeah, trying and play with him, because yeah, if he's just fake charging and you haven't established that relationship yet.
I would poof my pants a lot, That's what I do.
Oh, poor croc doesn't realize how scary it is, how sharp its steeth is, and it just wants to play. Yeah, really a big learning curve.
It really does seem like it was play.
Like.
The other explanation could be that it's like it's like ooh food, and then it gets close and it's like wait, no, no, wait a minute, this is my friend, this is my buddy. But you know, like the fact that they do chase each other around as clearly playing that it makes me think that he was playing with this guy. There was another case documented of an American alligator seeming to maybe play with river otters. To these river otters, I feel like mess around with these alligators and would like poke at them and tug at their tails and then run away, and so you know, they kind of seem to be like harassing this this alligator, And so I don't know if they're like frenemies or if they're friends, but he would like snap out these river otters, but never actually seemed to try to kill them. Maybe he felt like they were more trouble than their worth. But there was a time where one of the otters slipped off the bank of the river and the alligator actually grabbed it in its mouth, shook it around, dunked it in the water a few times, and then just let it go. So it's like hard to know exactly what it was doing. If it was like trying to teach it a lesson, if it was like maybe I'll eat you, but you're two wiggies, so no, thank you, or if he was just like playing with the otter and having like yeah, or like or like hey, you know, turn about his fair play. Keep messing with you me, I'll mess with you a little bit. It's really hard to know, you know. It's like we can't really get into the head of an alligator, but it's certainly very interesting behavior. And it is definitely not just like mindless kill machine behavior, right, Like there's something going on here.
It feels like otters would be a good snack for an alligator.
Yeah, I you know, I don't know. But they're also very playful. River otters can be pretty big and feisty, So like I could imagine it being like, hey, you know what, I don't I don't want to like mess with you because you're gonna be a difficult thing to mess with. But you know, on the other hand, it's just like, yeah, like if this alligator really wanted to, I'm pretty sure it could kill this river otter.
Yeah. I also like, uh again, I've heard through the grape vine that like otters can be real jerks. Yeah, and yeah, I wonder if this precator was just trying to Yeah, I was just trying to like keep keep the peace.
Like, hey, you know what it could be like listen, otter, you've been being a real a hole. I'm just gonna dunk you a few times for you to understand.
Just just put you in your place. Yeah you're not you don't run stuff.
I know you got hands, Yeah you got these little little hands. Oh we're all so impressed.
Chomp, chomp, chomp, exactly, just you know, kind of just giving it am a warning shot.
Yeah, you don't run this place. Yeah.
Uh.
Crocodilians have frequently been observed playing with dead prey without eating it. So, you know, cat stuff just being big scaly cats.
That is gross.
But you know, I don't judge them typical cat that's not judgment. It's just cat stuff. I mean. Another cat like behavior is juvenile American alligators were kept someone was keeping them in their home. I don't know why. This was a rehab situation where like keeping them as pets, which bad idea. Don't do that they get big. But apparently these babies would like go around the bathroom and swat the ceramic caps off of the you know how the toilets have like those ceramic caps that go over the bolts in the ground, And yeah, they would like bat it around and toss it around, and like, that's exactly what my dog would do. Uh when I lived somewhere that had one of those toilets with those like ceramic caps that go over the bolt, Like that's exactly what she would do.
Uh. Once again, I am picturing it doing this with its hands. I understand it's probably doing it with its snout.
Yes, I know it's cute too with its hands, hands stuffy, Yes, little stubborns laws. It's mostly its mouth. It seems to kind of operate through the world.
It's a mouth first creature.
It is very much a mouth first creature. The cutest thing that they have been observed doing is specifically playing with pink flowers. Seems like they like pink flowers. So they have been seen picking up pink flowers, pushing them around with their snout, carrying them in their teeth. They success, Yeah, they seem to like the color pink. They'll play with any sort of flowers, but pink is like their favorite. But yeah, it's just like such a It's like a thing where you know, we associate crocodiles with these big, mean, tough things that don't have feelings, but like they like pink flowers.
And how can you hate something that likes pink flowers exactly? That's very sweet.
It's very very sweet. You're if you're curious about more of this, So like all of this, all of these anecdotes, all these observations were collected and published by zoologist of Vladimir Dennett's, whose research is very interesting in terms of trying to kind of fill in some of the lack of research on alligator behaviors. So yeah, this is uh, this is like a big collection of all of these anecdotes.
Yeah that's cool because they yeah, they even growing up in near their territory and they were always these like cold, steely reptiles that didn't seem to have much personality. But it is nice to know, you know, they're still living things.
Of Course, interestingly, it might be partially because they are nervous about exhibiting some of these behaviors when they're being observed. Like the person who said that the alligator babies were playing with the ceramic cap, like whenever she would like open the door to the bathroom to try to see them doing it, they would stop. But then when she would close the door, she kept hearing this like rattling sound and scuttling around, and she'd open the door and the cap is somewhere else and the alligators all freeze and like look at her. So like, yeah, that's like one of the examples of why it might be so hard to observe them doing all this is that, uh, it is it's difficult. They're like maybe change their behavior when we're watching them. Also, like sometimes it might be unclear whether it's playing. Like sometimes it seems like alligators and crocodiles like to play underneath like water dripping, like water dripping from a you know, a faucet or probably in nature, like some kind of little waterfall, but like they'll snap at the water and like move their head under it, and it might just look like, ah, they're dumb, they think the water is food, But they actually intentionally seek out these this water dripping and we'll put their head under it and snap at it, and then once it's turned off, they'll like lose interest and leave. So like it seems like they actually that might just be you know, like how your cat sometimes will stick its head under a faucet and play around with the water, or dogs play with water coming out of a hose, like you know, it's just a class like animals like to play around with water.
Animals like to play. Yeah, because every time at least I've seen them in the water in the wild, they're very still.
They like to bask a lot.
Yeah, they are like easily mistaken for logs just like or debris floating around in the water. It's kind of hard to unless like you have a guide being like that's it, or you're very close to it from a distance, You're just like that's a floating log.
Yeah, and that helps them catch prey, right, because they can be very good ambush predators. Yeah, they'll stay very very still. Yeah. Until so it makes sense, which is why when people, when researchers see this behavior of an alligator or crocodile moving around more than it needs to, it's like, well, they don't have a lot of energy to like spare, so they probably would only do that if there's a reason in terms of like having fun and enjoying it, right, Like, Otherwise it doesn't seem like they would want to do this.
And the reason is fun.
The reason could be fun, It could be some other reason, right, Like, we don't we can't mind read these crocodiles, but it does seem to follow a pattern of like this, this movement doesn't seem to gain them anything materially. It doesn't seem to benefit them in any other way. Uh, And therefore the only option is like having fun, pool them around.
I just like it.
I like it just enjoying themselves. Well, we're gonna take a quick breaker. They really do they deserve some some self care time just playing around with pink flowers, so cute. So when we get back, we're gonna see if we can answer the question if crocodiles can love. All right, so we are back and Bridget, what do you think? Do you think crocodiles can love? Are they capable of such.
A I mean, well, you know, the questions a bit leading, but I believe in their capacity to love. I believe in all things capacity to love.
Like you know, that's beautiful. What about bacteria, Bridget.
Huh no, kill it all?
Ah, fair enough? So uh, crocodiles, Well, look, I actually don't know. I'm gonna say maybe so, because like again, we cannot mind read a crocodile. We don't know what emotions they're feeling. We can look at their behavior and kind of guess, right, Like I look at my dog. It looks at me soulfully. It likes to get in my lap, It likes cuddles, And I think I think my dog loves me. Maybe she only sees me as like a magical food couch that like provides food in a comfortable, warm place to sit. It's hard to know, but I think she does love me, and I think she does care about me crocodiles, it is. It's again it's hard to say. Can they feel love? I mean, our feelings of love did come from instincts, right like instincts to procreate, instincts to care for offspring, instincts to survive. So at some point, right like, these instinctive things become emotions, And I just don't think we know exactly when that happens for which animals it happens. But I would say, given their capacity to play, I bet they do feel some emotion in terms of love. And here's some examples of how they care about each other. So maybe the famous thing is like how good they are at being parents. Usually it's the females that do most of the parenting. There are some species, like the garials, that seem to be very attentive fathers. But yeah, so crocodile mothers are very attentive. They listen to the calls of their offspring. They famously will carry their offspring gin jery in their mouths and take them from the nesting site to the water like a little taxi service to keep them safe. And they are able to keep them in their mouths and they never seem to be tempted to chomp down on them. They'll even like very gingerly crack open their eggs like when they are hatching and help them hatch. So they have this incredible ability to really modulate the strength of their jaws to help them help those little babies out of their out of their eggs.
That's so sweet. Yeah, I'd be very afraid that they would like Lenny enough mice and men them their babies.
Yeah, but no, they're they have more self control than Lenny from Mice of Men. From Mice of Men the book Mice of Men of Mice and Men of the Ice Men of the Mousemen. It's a book about mutant mousemen who take over the world and Lenny must stop them back with his strong hands. Lenny alone can stop these mistakes. It's the only one I read the spark notes, so I don't know.
Yeah, it was a long time ago. I can't remember. That's very sweet. Are they like as they grow up? Are they communal?
Like?
Do they do they hang out?
Siblings? They usually disperse once they get older, they will go out and disperse, But for a while, the babies hang out together. They seem to play together, and like you know, they'll do sort of fun sibling times until they get a bit bigger, and then they are they go out and disperse. Sometimes they are gently encouraged to disperse by their mother so that they do find their own areas and stuff. But yeah, I mean like crocodiles do can like as we see them sort of just basking together and stuff. They'll do that with their siblings, but they'll also do it with just other members of their species, and they don't.
Necessarily the neighborhood.
Yeah, exactly, Like they can get along pretty well. It depends on the species in terms of how territorial they are, but yeah, a lot of them can have this communal living and like a lot of them grow up in sort of this crash which is this meant nesting site that is shared by different different families. So sometimes crocodile mothers will actually be more attentive to the sounds of smaller offspring, which is really sweet, right, Like, so they listen for the like you know, the baby alligator cries or baby crocodile cries. It's going very cute. They sound different when they're smaller and younger, and crocodile crocodilian mothers will pay more attention to the younger ones, to the smaller ones, because those are the more vulnerable ones versus the older, bigger, more capable offspring. So that to me that there's something sweet about that right like where it is, Yeah, it is making sure the littlest ones are getting the lover share that they need.
That's very safe. I I also like the idea of like just a bunch of baby because they are so they are very cute when they're little. They had these like.
Little shit eating grins they are.
And they they just they're like little skinny long lizards with these yeah little like slight eyes in these little smiles and uh yeah, having them all play together. I like that.
If I, if I had no moral compass and I was a mad scientist, I would like breed a tiny alligator that always was small as like pett yeah, and keep it as like a baby. Highly unethical, very much morally against that. But when I think about it, like what would I like to do, I'd like to cuddle a baby alligator forever. So if I had if I just went, if I lost my moral like if bridget if I'm ever like well, I am trying to breed the perfect tiny alligator minigators. Stop me. I've lost my way.
You have become a mad scientist, which has always been a possibility for you.
It's you know, that's what I've This is what I've been told. A lot is like, well, you know, like in my high school, they're like most likely to become mad scientists who breeds tiny alligators.
A lesion of tiny gators.
And I can't say they're wrong, but please stop me. You have to stop me by any means necessary.
Yeah, that is your supervillain origin story. And it would take a Florida woman to stop you.
That's right. I don't as long as I don't like see a play about alligators and then go out into the alleyway and then some mugger like hurts my family. Right that, I think it'll be okay. I think we're good. Well what about what about romance? Bridget romance?
Oh, I mean they got to they they have to.
I mean they do have to will love and we do know already, well, them bubbles, they do blow them bubbles in mating, which is pretty already very romantic. Oh well, interestingly, alligators can be surprisingly monogamous. A decades long study of alligators at a Louisiana Wildlife Refuge found that seven out of the ten females that they studied opted to mate with the same males over many years, indicating some amount of monogamy. U. Some of the pairs lasted from like nineteen ninety seven to two thousand and five.
That's a good run.
That's okay, that's like eight years. That's a good relationship.
That's a good that's a good And I hate to I hate to stereotype like this, but the females choose to mate with the same man male over and over again.
Do the males reciprocate that level of monogamy? You know? I mean I think are they running around? I think that they are. It's hard to know exactly, but it did seem like there might be more less monogamy on the part of the males, but still like, uh, they were Like Basically, what they did was they looked at the eggs the broods of these females and found that there was a lot of consistency in terms of the males that they would select to mate with. So I don't it's one of those studies I don't think is so comprehensive that we can't we can't rule out males also being pretty monogamous, but they just didn't really have that in its scope. But ye, but true love can endure. Yes, you know what, like maybe the there's there's some some of these male crocodiles that are not they do delete their hinge profiles.
Yeah, I think the alligator dating app would still be called hinge right because of the jaws, because of because of.
The jobs, right, because of the jaws.
Because of the jaws.
Right. You know, these jaws only open one way, baby, that's for you, and that's for you. These jaws only open for you, baby. I think I think we've I think we now know how to get into the alligator or crocodile dating scene, which is always a good thing to know.
Yeah, do you want to know?
Yes, we do. We do want to know. We need to know, Bridget before we go. We do. Got to play a little game game I like to call the Mystery Animal sound game. I Guess who's squawking? Every week I play a Mystery Animals and you're the listener, and you the guest kind of guess who is making that sound? Uh? We I wrapped up sort of the older Mystery Animal sounds last week. So we just got one brand fresh new that's not how you say it, brand fresh brand new brand news brand spank and a spank and new sash brand fresh the freshness brand. So uh, full disclosure, Uh, these sounds were put shifted down. Uh so there is some sound editing going on, but that's part of the mysteries. So the uh, the hint is this. Uh, these sound like certain movie star animals and they are in fact in the clade you're probably thinking of, but maybe not quite how you are imagining them. All right, so here is the sound.
M h.
M hmm, yeah, m so this was This audio was edited by Dane Pavott on on Twitter. Dane Pavott is a paleontological science communicator. Uh So, cool stuff there, Bridget, What do you think? What do you think you think this sounds? Those are so many sounds. I want to say it's some sort of lion hmmm, this sort of lie that could be.
Uh yeah, I'm between between elephant and lion, which is strange. I'm gonna I'm gonna double down online.
All right, Bridget thinks lyon or maybe elephant or maybe something in between. Well we will find out on next time's podcast. Man, I'm not doing well with the English right now. Next next podcast is when we will find out the answer to this one. A cliffhanger. Everyone's in suspense. If you think you know who is making this sound, you can write to me at Creature feature pot at gmail dot com. You can also write to me your questions and I try to answer them. H Bridgie, thank you so much for joining us today. Where can the people find you?
Uh yeah, I'm still on that site formerly known as Twitter at bridget Tweets. I'm also on Instagram bridget underscore Greenberg.
You can also check out a really fun short.
Film that just got released on YouTube that I produced I was at Sundance called Pathological. It's on the onmleto movie channel, which shows a bunch of great short films. So check that out.
Very fun, incredible, Do check that out. Bridget's a great, a great movie maker. She just gotta make a movie about how crocodiles are sweet babies.
Yep, that's that's on the list.
Yeah, called Crocodiles in Love, a Story of scaly sweetness. I already gave you, I already gave you the title. The movie makes itself.
Yeah, it writes itself, all right.
Thank you guys so much for listening. If you're enjoying the show and you leave a rating and review, I truly do appreciate it. I read every single one of the reviews in the ratings tangibly help me in the podcast. And and thanks to the Space Classics for their super awesome song xcel Lumina. Creature features a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts like the one you just heard, listen to the iHeartRadio app app podcast or Hey, guess what webby listen to. I don't know, I don't care. I'm not your mother, and I can't tell you what to do except don't go up to that crocodile. I know it's got some flowers. I know it's got some pink flowers with.
Us gonna try to seduce you with bubbles and flowers.
Listen, you can't. It's these big gestures from these crocodiles, and they give you the flowers and the whole thing and the chocolates. You gotta watch out. You can't fall for You can't fall for it, honey. You gotta look for commitment, all right, See you next Wednesday. Thank
