Part Two: Push the Button: The Brief Life and Quick Death of Giuseppe Zangara

Published Jan 29, 2025, 5:00 AM

Margaret continues talking with Miriam about an Italian man with chronic pain who decided to kill someone important.

Cool Zone Media.

Hello, and welcome to Cool People who did cool stuff, which is sometimes about cool people who did cool stuff, but is currently about complicated people who did interesting stuff. I'm your host, Murder Kiljoy, and my guest is Miriam. Hi, Miriam, Hi are you today? That's totally a different day than the previous day, because obviously we recorded on different days.

Yeah, I'm having a really different day than it was the last time that we talked.

Sophie is our producer. Hi, Sophie, Hi.

I'm still drinking my questionably colored electrolyte drink.

It's lasted you days days. Yeah. For anyone who can't see, which is everyone except the three of us, because mercifully this is not a video podcast. Sophie is currently drinking a I was trying to come something more clever than it is. It just looks like pee, that's what's happening.

Yeah, aesthetically this drink.

But it seems like it probably tastes good. Yeah, I don't know.

It's taken her three days to drink it.

That's true, but that parts, well, that's not true. That's the part that's the lie, that's the bit we're doing. But part of the not bit, but instead my weird thing where I have to do everything the same way every time that I'm not going to diagnose. We also have to introduce our audio engineer, Rory hi Rori or hi Rory inter The music is my own Woman.

I think it's a really good way of making sure you don't forget anything. That's what I think it is.

Yeah, exactly exactly. We are on part two of a two parter about gioseppes On Gara, who is a would be Well, I guess if you don't kill the person you're trying to kill, you're not an assassin.

So he's a murder he did, he did assassinate someone.

Well, but but he didn't try to kill that guy.

Mmmm. True.

True, So I think he's would be assassin and just a regular murderer, yes, and.

An interesting person who did interesting stuff, we definitely agree.

Who is wildly sympathetic, just the most sympathetic of the person who it's so complicated. I love this story.

So many bad things have happened to him.

I know, I know. And now he's in Miami and he has a gun. He got ten bullets and then because nothing makes sense and anywhere that only has one version of history means that it's probably lying to you. He either practiced somewhere with the first five rounds or they were on him when he was arrested. Both have been presented by credible sources.

That seems like so easy to fact check, I know, but for that, not for you if people are saying different things, but like he either had five bullets in his pocket or he did not, Like this is there's no subtlety to this.

A lot of like records and stuff all went missing.

You did say there were conspiracy theories, true crime elements to this.

Yeah, okay, all of the records about him disappeared in nineteen forty five. WHOA, and then like his criminal record in Italy was like destroyed in the war the coming one, the World War two one.

And like there's just like stuff, you know.

Anyway, I don't think we've even talked about why he has a criminal record in Italy. I don't think you mentioned any Italian crimes.

He was arrested having an illegal knife on him when he was like twenty oh care and he served thirteen days in jail for it, which is kind of wild. It might have been during the while he was like walking around Rome trying to kill the king part of his life. But I'm not sure.

I mean, I would hope he had a like for his sake in terms of his planning, that he had a gun when he was walking around Rome hoping to kill the king.

Yeah, but yeah, so he had illegally feoun him. Pie served searching days in jail, and who knows, it seemed like not a big deal. It only came up because they actually spent a while after he got arrested right there, would like write, hello, our friend Mussolini, can you let us know about this man we have in custody, you know, right, And for a while they were like, oh, I don't have anything on that guy, and slowly came up. And then there's like a bunch of others Joe's Angaras in the US and whatever. Anyway, So the closer we get to the event itself, the blurrier the details get, because everyone wanted to take credit for saving the day or knowing something about what happened, or tying him into their favorite pet conspiracy about the anarchist international network that they think is bad instead of like me, where I think it's cool, you know.

Not to make the whole conversation back to the Sondhim musical. But the song about Zangara in the show is called How I Saved Roosevelt, And it's a crowd song where every single person is telling like how the story is really about them.

That is very accurate.

Yes, he's a good writer, Stephen Sondheim. But like everybody is talking about like, oh, he tried to push in front of me and I made him to go stand at the back. And then somebody else is like I saw him getting up on the chair and I pushed him, you know, like everybody has their own little thing. And then is like basically talk about this story is really about me, while he just like screams in anguish and is ignored.

Yeah, that's actually just pretty directly like those two exact things are going to happen well, or people will claim they happened.

Right.

There's one version of The Fateful Day where Giuseppe went and got a hotel room and smoked half a hundred cigarettes on the bed while chambering the gun and worrying. This comes from the woman who runs the hotel.

Can I ask you something, You're a professional writer? Half a hundred?

Yeah? Why half hundred. I didn't that that was the way the woman described it. Half a hundred cigarettes.

Fifty there's a perfectly good number.

Half a hundred carries a different connotation, it.

Does, doesn't it. It sounds like he had one hundred there and he only smoked half of them, and like he was trying to smoke all of them, but he only did half.

Smoking fifty cigarettes, it means you were there for a while smoking half a hunt undred cigarettes, and means like you're like.

Yeah, it is you know, it sounds wild to smoke half a hundred cigarettes. Smoking fifty cigarettes is just a lot of cigarettes. I just wanted to really do a close reading of this moment. Thank you for indulging me.

Yeah, yeah, no, totally Yeah, two and a half packs. They could have just said two and a half packs, right, because then anyway.

Whatever that sounds reasonable, I know, he smoked two and a half packs of cigarettes. Just sounds like, yeah, that doesn't even sound like anything.

I've met people who do that. But he didn't smoke.

Oh great, so he actually smoked half a zero cigarettes.

Probably he also had a room in town. He probably never went to a hotel. Great, this woman has probably just interjected herself into the story. But it's also kind of a compelling narrative, like you could see they're like, well, I'm gonna die today. I'm gonna go smoke half a hundred cigarettes. You know, I don't know either way. Nine pm, February fifteenth, nineteen thirty three, Franklin and Doug Nope, where did that one? Franklin diminutive Deborah Franklin Deborah Roosevelt docked and got into a car, one of the three cars with his entourage, and they went off to Bayfront Park. And if you're thinking to yourself and only Margaret, is that place sounds familiar? And there's a band stand there? Did you, Margaret get trapped there? Once kettled alongside thousands of other people in November two thousand and three, the day after you saw Dead pres play at the bandstand at the Miami FTAA protests. Well, I looked at photos and the answer is yes, I saw Dead pres play where this guy shot the president.

That actually rules. Do you think they knew?

I don't know. I have no idea.

I mean, I would hope somebody told them.

I know, I know they're like, oh, you should have been dead Mayor just for the night.

You know, if they really fucked up the show, if they really fucked up the show, then they were dead Mayor. It's like, oh, yeah, I missed on that one.

Yeah, so anyway, Franklin, Demetrius Roosevelt, Miriam gave me that one in between. Then the break showed up at the park and there was a huge crowd. Giuseppe tried to push his way through the front of the crowd. Some witnesses claim that he had someone with him, most claimed that he didn't. He probably didn't.

It seems like he usually doesn't have anybody with him, and when he does, it's often a teenager.

Well those are the ones we hear about. But yes, okay, he wanted to get to the front row because he is short, and he wants to shoot the speaker, which is obviously a thing that comes up anyway, and potentially a guy stopped him from pushing his way forward. This one, I kind of tend to believe there was, Like some witnesses Zuku Testa this one the particular, like, hey, what are you doing? You can't push your way up, And he's like, I'm sure it let me through, And the guy's like no, you're a man. You can't go anywhere, you know. But obviously this guy has a vested interest in claiming he saved the president, so right, you know, he remembers the story very well. He's also one of the people who claimed that the guy, oh I don't remember, everyone had. It's like a chart of people who claimed to have saved the president and claimed that he did or didn't have an accomplice with him whatever. So he ends up in the third row. Waiting on the steps to the stage. Are all these dignitaries. Since the country that their dignitaries in is the United States of America, this means it's all the rich people in town, like all the business leaders of Miami or whatever, sitting there.

And since it's like the early twentieth century, they're all probably wearing like top hats and like a ribbon across their chest.

Yeah, that says like I am an industrialist. Ha ha ha sucks to be you. I think that's what they all wore.

Yeah.

Also waiting there is the mayor of Chicago, Anton cermac I was.

Really waiting for you to explain what he was doing there, because it never occurred to me to wonder what he was doing in Miami ran so the soon to be president.

The first time I read it, I was like, oh, huh, I need killed like an important guy. And I'm like, wait, Miami is famously not in Chicago. Yeah, so what the fuck was the mayor of Chicago doing in Miami. I hear mayor of Chicago in the nineteen thirties, and I assume he's a corrupt mafia puppet, right, And Miami is almost a sister crime city to Chicago at this point with organized crime or whatever. Is what I've infurring. I mean, that's a subtext to some stuff I've read. I'm not a historian of the organized crime in Miami. So is he there because of organized crime? No? Ant In cermac is the politician who broke the racist Irish stranglehold on Chicago politics. Huh, including by getting the Irish vote. He wasn't a like haha, we pulled one over on the Irish. He himself was an immigrant. He was from Slovakia. He grew up speaking Czech, was a coal miner, and Anton grew up working class before he kind of bootstrapped him. He American dreamed himself into being a businessman. You know and then started exploiting people for money or whatever. Right, but he fought against prohibitionists on a campaign of personal liberty. He ousted the incumbent mayor by leveraging his own working class cred and rousing the vote of the ethnic minorities whod been shut out of politics, especially getting out the black vote in a way that hadn't been done well.

And if he was an anti prohibition guy, that means that the Chicago mob was probably very anti him, because the mob wanted prohibition to stay so they could continue selling illegal bootze.

He did this thing where he kind of ran on a mafia neutral platform, but he was anti mafia, according to what I've read the people of This is where there's even more arguments, right, But yeah, he was. He was anti mafia. The mafia was anti him. This is part of why people thought that maybe this is why he was killed. It is almost certainly not what happened. He won by the largest landslide victory in the city's history. And his whole thing is anti corruption. And then what people claim is that actually he was just as dirty, but he was the opposite side. Al Capone is in jail at this point and so he wants not actually, but people say that he wants or there's no evidence rather of the idea that he wants a different mafia guy in charge. Right right seems to be a minority opinion among historians. I believe that the general opinion is that he was anti corruption and anti mafia. He's sixty nine years old at this point. It took him a while to get to mayor, right, and he's in Miami because Chicago is having trouble raising enough money through taxes thanks to the Depression, to pay for all the public services it needs. Specifically, he is there because public school teachers aren't getting paid enough in Chicago. Oh no, I'm telling you this is a tragedy. The active duty mayor traveled to Miami to hang around a bandstand to desperately try to catch the ear of the president elect for a second to plead for federal funds to pay public school teachers.

Oh no, that's such a good thing to do.

It is. And it wasn't a like I'm just gonna go chum it up with so and so. He was there as a like, if I can get half a second of the president, maybe I can help these teachers Oh my god. He didn't know exactly when the things was gonna be.

He just like and this wasn't him being like like trying to like yeah, forge a political alliance or like call in a favor for himself.

This was like, oh no, yeah, because he was he was just kind of do it okay for himself. You know, he's like the business guy and like, yeah, as far as I can tell, there was an ulterior motive here. He was there for literally the thing that just Seppi's there for, yeah, that poor kids should get to go to school.

That poor kids should get to go to school.

Oh no, I know that. This was the moment where I was like, oh god, like this is like I read this.

I was really counting on this podcast recording session to lift my spirits.

You know that. I'm so sorry.

It's always a gamble talking to you.

I know.

No, that's not true. I love talking to you.

It's still like it's a tragedy, but it's like you know when we go see Shakespeare for the comedies and the tragedies, right, yeah.

No, it's a poetic tragedy. Yeah, it's a oh.

And both sides of it are I straight up thing Joeppe's on the wrong side of this, but honestly, so is this businessman mayor right, like in other ways, you know, for anyone who's listening wonders by talking about I mean because of capitalism, not because of the anyway whatever. So there's the mayor, there's some business leaders, there's twenty five thousand Miamians, and then there's Giuseppe's Angara with a revolver in his pocket. Franklin Dylan Dorothy Dorothy Dylan Roosevelt shows up and he's he's paralyzed. Right, there's a thing that wasn't a People did know this at the time. It wasn't totally hidden, but it wasn't like it was downplayed as much as possible.

It was sort of yeah, he like like I know, he sort of really tried to avoid being photographed in a wheelchair and stuff like that, but.

Like, you know, and he walked with heavy leg braces underneath his trousers and I'm not trying to At some point I wanted I want to read more about ableism and FDR because I think it's very interesting that possibly the most powerful American president in history was a was disabled. You know, Yeah, especially during a period of even more intense and ableism than currently, which is still instead of going up on stage, he's in an open car, right, so they just pick him up and put him onto the backseat of the car so we can talk to the crowd. This is part of the like, well, they're not really hiding it, they're just not playing it up. You know.

That was also like that was a very popular way for politicians to appear in public, you know, up to another assassination that ye fair took place.

Yeah, before people realize that convertibles is a good way to get shot. Yeah. He gives a very very short speech, just a couple of sentences, and he talks about he's trying to go to the beach. Yeah, he talks about his favorite topic. He talks about how he caught had a great time fishing, but he figures he gained about ten pounds on vacation, and so his first order of business once he gets into the White House is an executive order of himself to lose those ten pounds. Oh gross, Yeah, that's like all he talks about. It's ridiculous.

Franklin diet culture, Roosevelt.

I did not enjoy that. I did not enjoy that.

No, no, he's going to say another annoying fatbook thing a little bit too.

We all had the same face of like, yeah.

Nobody wants to hear about your diet.

Yeah, and you're ob tessive worry abou anyway, whatever, m M no, thank you. Yeah. Actually that's a kind of Trumpian way to talk. They'll like getting up and giving a speech is like I had a great time fishing, you know, and now I'm going to say something body shamy like, yeah.

I think they like, I'm just like you. I enjoy phishing and a self deprecating joke is like pretty standard politician like way of trying to endear yourself to a crowd.

But no, you're you're right. And it was over before anyone knew it, and Giuseppe was like, oh, I missed my chance. And he didn't shoot during it because he didn't have a clear line of sight and you know whatever, and FDR's aids helped him back down to sitting in the back seat. A few dignitaries rushed over to talk to him, including Anton Sermac, who was like, Hey, I've got some business to talk to you about. Gara was about twenty five feet away, and so he stood up on his chair and he said, I love products and services. Wow, oh you really?

You jump scared me with that one. I didn't say coming.

I know that no one suspects that I can't do a Spanish inquisition because if I just say the Spanish products, that doesn't work. Well, here's ads and we're back. He did stand up on his chair. He didn't shout anything. He's quiet the entire time. Another woman about his size named Lillian Cross, who was almost certainly in the song that you're talking about, Yeah, was standing on the chair right in front of him, and so he held the gun over her right shoulder and fired one shot, then two more shots, than two more shots, and then the gun was empty. Lilian's face was burned by the powder as he fired. And then everyone claims to be the hero who saved the day. Yeah, Lillian Cross gets the most credit, Like she's the one you're gonna find on the Wikipedia page for example. She's actually the Well, neither of these are very credible witnesses. No one stopped his aim. The spoiler alert, no one stopped him.

Oh yeah, no. She definitely claims to have given him a mighty shove or something when he Yeah, when he was aiming.

She claims she hit his arm with her bag or wrestled his arm up. And then a carpenter named Thomas Armor in the British style with a U somehow that's important to me, disputes this and says Lilian didn't do anything. It was I who rushed forward and grabs Angara's arm and forced it up. Zagara's claim is that no one stopped him. Well, I mean, afterwards they crap beats the shit out and almost kills him. But most likely they are both liars or misremembering. Most likely, Zanngara fired unimpeded except for the wobbling of his chair that was caused by the crowd, and that's how he remembers it. And furthermore, of his arm had been held up, he wouldn't have shot so many people.

Yeah, he would have missed more.

Yeah. And almost every almost every witness who isn't claiming that they personally saved the day is like, no, he just shot on him. No one stopped him until he was done. The rich, little old lady became the national hero. The carpenter was the local hero. And so there's like a huge fight, and this was a big drama. For years the rest of his life, he was petitioning Congress for a medal of honor since Lilian had gotten one, and he would like whenever she would be on like talk shows or whatever, he would show up.

And be like, Oh, that's so embarrassing.

I know as soon as he started shooting, the crowd dropped to the ground. Reasonable and part of this whole thing. I think people were like, oh, someone spoiled his aim. How could he have missed? He was only twenty five feet away. I think that people who say this have not fired a lot of handguns. I feel confident that the average news shooter could hit center mass of a target in a calm situation with a handgun from twenty five feet away after a little bit of practice. I do not feel confident that the average shooter could hit a target in a crowd from twenty five feet away while standing on a wobbly chair full of adrenaline. Handguns are incredibly inaccurate, and twenty five feet is not close for a handgun.

Yeah, I mean you said he had he had been in the army, though, so would he have had like weapons training.

So he probably had some training. They probably, and I can't say this for certain, they probably did not teach him how to use handguns much.

Mmmm yeah, fair.

Overall soldiers don't use handguns. Officers use handguns. That's a good point. And even then they don't really use them, they just carry them.

Well, and he had been thinking he was going to be aiming at the guy on stage, not the guy in the car, like his plan is changing, like everything.

And he was going to be row and yeah, yeah, not standing on a wobbly chair. He also came close. The bullets like whizzed by within the foot of the guy's head, you know.

Yeah, unprecedented and unfamiliar to hear a story about a soon to be president having bullets come so very close to shooting him at a rally.

Yeah.

I hate it when history rhymes.

I mean, are you predicting here and now that Trump is going to enact a new deal and save the world from Nazis?

Oh, well no I am. Actually I'm not going to put my money on that one.

I really kind of entrapped you there. So Zangara injured five people with his five bullets, and he came within inches of FDR's head. He actually for a while thought he had injured six people, and he bragged about it while he was in Joe. He's like waiting for death row and he's like, I shot six people with five bullets.

That's not a good look, man.

No, No, Sirmac took a round to the chest, but he did not die right away. Mabel gil the wife of the president of the power company, was hit in the abdomen and nearly died. That was actually people were more worried about Mabel than they were about Sirmac. Margaret Cruse, who should not have been shot because she should have a name that prevents you from being shot unless you are ahead of State of the UK.

Yeah, nothing bad should ever happen to Margaret's except that one who you.

Mentioned, Yeah, exactly. She was a twenty three year old who was just in the crowd and she was shot through the hand and then another bullet went through her hat and grazed her.

Are you bragging about shooting a random twenty five year old?

I think he's like because he actually later he's like pretty like he talks about how he would not have targeted these people, but he also clearly is like, isn't sorry, but This is why you don't shoot into crowds everyone, you know, Yeah, don't do it. Yeah, A cop, a Secret Service agent, and a chauffeur were all woundedly well. The Secret Service agent was probably lying. Yes, witnesses at the hospital said, the blood on his hand with someone else's.

Oh hell yeah.

But he is to this day, or at least as of when this book was written, and I don't remember when on the official list of Secret Service members who were wounded in the line of duty?

Was he Was he collecting those checks? Was he like taken off, taken off of active duty and just sitting at home like I got shot for the president?

You know what though, Like if you're in a shooting, if you're a bodyguard and there is a shooting, I feel like you could be done. You're like, you know what, on my watch, that man survived and I'm done. You pay me for the rest of my life.

Now, if you're at work and someone shoots at you, your employers should pay for you to just chill for the rest of your life. How about that.

That's the sorry, that's the rules.

Yeah.

When the shots rang out, FDR's bodyguard jumped on him. The car started to gun off and I think this is true. This is very propaganda for FDR, but I believe this is true. No witnesses dispute this at all. Someone, probably FDR, stopped them from driving away. They stayed and helped the wounded instead. Sirmak was put into the car next to FDR, who tried hard to keep the man from going into shock. As they drove off towards the hospital, the crowd attackted Zangara. Someone shouted, lynch him, kill him, cut his throat because crowds be like that. Sometimes. A bunch of cops tackled him. The crowd was beating him. He was silent by most reports. One witness claimed he shouted. He did not, Just to be clear, he did not shout this. One witness claimed he shouted, I want to kill the president. I kill the president. Too many people are starving to death. I'm glad I got Sirmac.

I love how somebody is like yes, And then he shouted several complete coherent sentences.

Yeah, that include knowing the name of the mayor of Chicago. Yeah.

Why the fuck would he know the name of the mayor of Chicago and recognize him by sight?

Right? He had a picture of FDR in his pocket to make sure he knew what the guy looked like.

You know, people weren't on TV then, Yeah, but also people are on TV now. And if you showed a resident of Miami a lineup of people and said which of these is the mayor of Chicago, there is a zero percent chance anyone can pick them out? Yeah, pick them out. I don't actually know who the mayor of Chicago currently is.

No, I don't either. Yeah. Cops took him from the crowd and they tied him to the trunk rack on the back of a car. Huh, strangling him, and then cops were like hanging on to the running boards as they drove away.

Wait, sorry, is he like he's like being towed behind the car?

Okay, so like an old timey car is going to have that spot on the back where the trunk is literally a place you put a trunk.

Oh, okay, got it, I'm picturing it now.

Yeah, he's on top of that. So they get to the hospital and then this is my favorite weird anecdote of the whole thing. The guy working at the emergency room was sitting back on it, sitting back in the chair. His feet were up in the middle of the night. You know, it's not midnight, but it's like nine PM's in the emergency room.

Oh, nothing happening in this Miami emergency room. I hope no important people charging covered in blood.

Certainly not while you're reading a Nudi mag Yes. I love that.

Oh my god, that's what it would be in a movie, like that's.

Yeah, no, it totally, it absolutely would be, you know. And then they're at the door and they're like, open the door for the President of the United States, and he thinks they're joking. He shouts back, tell him to piss on the floor and swim under it. Oh my god.

People don't say shit like that anymore.

People knew how to be clever in the thirties, damn. And then like later in his life people were like, did you really say that? And he's like, I'm not saying one way or the other.

Oh my god. See this is the guy, like everybody back at the crowd who's trying to make the whole story about them. Sorry, but the story is actually about this guy who was reading porn and told the president to piss on the floor and swim under the door.

I know. That's that's the one whose story from that day should ring on into history.

Yeah, this is the that guy's story.

What's that?

Do we know that guy's name or will he ever forever be known to history as that guy?

I think it's not. I didn't write it down. If it was written down in my source.

Well, he's the hero of this story, absolutely, a guy who is bad at his job.

Yeah, totally. And so they all pile into the hospital. Sir Mac held on for a good while longer, like like weeks or something, and the doctors thought he was going to be fine. He was in serious but not critical condition. X rays, which I believe were pretty new at the time, determined that the bullet was in a safish place to leave it for while he recovered, and they were like, you know, taking the bullet out might kill him. They were incorrect. I don't want to be like. They were working with the best available knowledge they had, but they were wrong. You know. Eventually it killed him. And then our friend Franklin Doomsday, Franklin Doomsday, Roosevelt, thank you, came in to visit the next day while Sirmac was still alive, and Sirmac these are his last words to Roosevelt. He said, basically, this is not a quote, It was just a summation. He was like, the teachers. The teachers are what matter. Anton pay the teachers.

Shit.

This is why I believe that he was actually there for that. You know, well, because he is no, he's dying. Well he doesn't know if he's dying, but he probably feels like he's dying, and he was. You know, he also might have said I'm glad it was me and not you, and those words are inscribed on his tomb. There's no evidence he said it, but it would have been in character.

Way less noble than hey, make sure you pay the Chicago public school teachers.

I know, I know. So Franklin Damien Roosevelt comes out of this looking like a fucking rock star. He not only kept his cool underfire, he stopped his own retreat to make sure that the wounded were cared for. And then there's like even another moment because there's like cops on the running boards and they're like driving away and one of the cops falls off, which I think is funny, but then they stop and make sure the cop gets back on, and so he's like he stopped his retreat twice to make sure everyone's taken care of.

And did he take care of the teachers?

I don't know. I mean, I don't know. In my mind, I'm like, well, he did a lot of like under his watch, a lot more federal money went into things like that.

For sure, into education.

Yeah, but I don't know whether or not he kept up his promise to Stirmac or I don't know if you even promised it, you know.

Yeah, but the guy took a bullet. You pay the teachers.

Pay theseus anyway, and then restructure society in a more horizontal way. Yeah. But he proved to a lot of the world that he had what it took by how he handled being literally under fire, keeping his cool, which is good because World War Two happened under his watch. Yeah, I mean he had to kind of get well, not he America had to get drag kicking and screaming into that. You know. But in all of this, do you think that he can this isn't an ad transition. Do you think that he can squeeze in some time to be a little bit more fat phobic?

Oh my god, I forgot that you said. The fat phobia came back.

Jesus so that cop who got shot. The bullet ricocheted from somewhere else and hit him in the forehead and got lodged between his skin and his skull.

Yikes.

And so Franklin Dumbledore, because I'm saying negative things about him, Roosevelt said, I think this is a direct quote. Of course, no bullet could get through his thick skull, but the hospital should starve him so he loses twenty pounds. Jesus christ Man just got shot in the forehead for you.

I mean, I'm I'm hardly one to criticize somebody for taking the opportunity to dunk on a cop, but like, but.

When you're the cops, boss, it's actually shitty.

It seems in poor taste. Yeah, it seems.

Rude, I know, I know, unnecessary.

And then after the incident, at his next stop, I think Baltimore, he gets met by literally a thousand cops at secret Service agents. They're like, all right, no more. He only had six secret Service agents with him in Miami. They're like, Noah, that's done. You are uh, you have a Philanx with you from now on. And if you want your own personal Failanx, you should buy one from our sponsor, hire an entire phalanx dot made up website. Yeah, our new sponsor. We can get money because I want my own, and so I want them to give me one as a if I figure, if I promote them enough, a failanx of what I don't really care could be geese.

That would be terrifying. A failanx of geese, I would run.

But I feel like that'd be like the infinite thing that Rintrok could just chase forever. You know, yeah, probably happy hunting grounds. Well, now I don't want it because now I'm comparing it to afterlife and rent trust to live for a lot longer. So you know what, cancel that sponsor and instead let's just go with whatever random ads here they are and we're back. But if you could have a phalanx of anything, what would you have each of you? I think hedgehogs would be nice because they have spears.

Yeah, I just think they're cute and like I like the I like the sort of spiky but cuddly vibe.

Yeah, what about like foxes? Does that work in the scenario?

Oh, that'd be good.

Falanx of foxes has a nice alliterative.

Yeah, yeah, totally I used to know what a group of foxes was called.

I don't.

I think it's called an earth. There's a band called an Earth of Foxes.

A group of foxes is called it's called a skulk, leash or earth.

Hell yeah, I like a skulk.

I like a skulk. Foxes make some of the cutest noises I've ever heard in my entire life.

They also make some of the most terrifying noises I've ever heard in my entire life.

That's also true, but we're gonna go with the happy part of that first.

Oh my lord, a thousand foxes screaming like tortured people, be so metal.

I would run. I would run from them even faster than I did from the.

But you know who didn't run Zangara because he wasn't afraid.

That's true. He was a little tied up.

Also, it's true although literally even in things, all the people who kind of hated him and like literally did the killing of him spoiler alert, were like, this is like the bravest man we've ever seen in her life. They took him to the county jail, they stripped him naked. I told you that was going to come back. And then at some point they brought a woman in to take his statement, so they gave him clothes for a moment, and then as soon as she left, they stripped him naked again, even though the ostensible purpose of stripping him naked was to like search him, you know.

Yeah, and they've made it very clear that the clothes are for the benefit of the person doing the interrogation, not for his benefit.

Yeah, totally. And he's wearing just a towel and a bunch of the photos taken in his time there's actually fairly striking photos because he's, you know, a foot and a half shorter than the guard next to him and stuff, you know.

Did Franklin Devin Rose, they'll like stop by to make any comments about his body once his shirt was off, Like that just seems to be the theme.

Oh he's really thin. I think I think FDR would have liked, would have approved.

Okay, What's what's so funny is I was like, why can't we think is there nobody of note whose name starts with D? And then I remembered who the president is. I was like, I love that that didn't come to any of our minds this entire time. I was like, I was like, whose name starts with? Theme was like goes like Damian Lillard, okay, Magpie got Dumbledore. I was like pretty good, pretty good.

I was like, who who could it possibly be? Yeah? Yeah, no no other D names. That's it. We're out of them.

No other D names of note.

Yeah, Donatello, oh, Ninja Turtle.

Yeah mm hmmm. So at a moment where I was like, yeah, of course, and I was like, oh, right, he's named after someone, the media hit job against Sangara started. Look, he's no hero, but this is still a media hit job. It started within twenty minutes because well, I'll explain why. Within twenty minutes, the Miami Herald published an extra edition of their paper because a reporter ran four blocks to a hotel payphone to file a report. And yes, it was only this week that I realized when newsyes shout extra extra, read all about it, they mean an extra edition of the paper, like we've already published one today. Here's an extra.

One, yeah, because something so important just happened that we had an.

Extra which also means that people in Miami learned about this within twenty minutes, which is like faster than they might learn about it. Now. I mean, they might learn about it now faster than that, but.

They would have learned even more misinformation about it now in the first twenty minutes, right.

And this report called Zangara a swarthy Italian typical of his breed. Ew Yeah, it's gonna get worse for how they feel about Italians not being white. Not that it would be okay if they weren't whatever, It's just people are shitty to people, That's what I'm trying to get at. Reporters bribed their way into the jail to get access to the documents, like just like bribed their way to be like, hey, let's see the things that we're not supposed to see, and then interview him. Another reporter said, quote, his bulging eyes dilate in the dim light as he speaks. His hair dark and curly, is awry. His face is dark, the heavy growth of beard common to his race showing prominently.

He stared italianly.

I know, well, they all wrote his accent out.

Yeah, that's always an early nineteenth and early twentieth century journalists. If they didn't like you, they would transcribe your dialect and it sucked.

Uh huh. And it's interesting because I mean it. I mean it continues to happen in literature to this day, but it started falling out of fashion and people realizing that it's usually just racism. But it certainly happened to people of color a lot longer, and it happened to Italians and like ethnic whites. But like they would always constantly write about how he wants to keel the president k E e L hmmm. A really obnoxious sheriff did the interview with him. But weirdly, the stenographer who came and did the stenography for it was this woman who actually tried to reverse all of that and actually like edited his English to be clearer.

She was like, fuck off, I know how to spell.

Yeah, but I'm also just like fixing like grammar and stuff like that because he, oh interesting, he didn't speak with clean English grammar. He could read and listen and understand clean English grammar perfectly fine, but.

He did not grow up in an English speaking country and he went to school for two months. Get off his back.

Yeah, he speaks more languages than you. When they arrested him and they went to his room, they found that cheap suitcase with nice clothes, and they found a bunch of books and they were like English grammar books and a Spanish like instruction book and like just stuff like that because he was teaching himself things.

Interview him an Italian if y'all are so smart.

Well, the sheriff claimed to have. I don't believe him, No, no one does. Because he did it in English interspersed with Spanish words. He would be like that ombre over there.

Oh my god. More people who should be embarrassed, be.

Like Mucco, Not even mucho Grazzi's, but like Mucco. Thanks. You know.

It's like it when you know, when I was in high school and like the kid who was never actually in class would show up to Spanish class for once and like be like, oh I uh nido to go to el bathroom?

Oh yeah, totally. Only that's pretending to speak Spanish. He's just speaking Spanish and claiming it's Italian. To be fair, the way that I got by in Italy was by speaking Spanish, but I didn't pretend it was a Italian. Yeah.

Oh I've had I've had some conversations with Portuguese speakers.

Yeah, you know, we're like, look, if you speak a Romance language, we'll figure it out. I have a better chance with Spanish than I do it English.

You know, we will figure this out. Yeah, but I will not claim to be speaking your language. And I will be a little embarrassed about this situation, and I will not rag about it.

Also, Seppi speaks English perfectly fine, and so he kept saying, I understand you fine, please just speak English, God Jesus Christ. And then like the guy kept being like, do you know how to read? And he's like, yes, you arrested me with books, you know, like I had a newspaper in my pocket, like you know, like he just had a heavy accent. Giuseppe spoke really candidly about what he'd done and why he'd done it. He said he wanted to keel all the rich people who quote tread the poorer people under their feet. He said, quote rich men send their children to school, and when I was a young man, rich men's son went to school while I worked in a brick factory in Italy and burned myself. He would like show the scar on his side, you know, because he's like naked in front of him or whatever. They asked what he thought about the president, and he said, as a man, I like mister Roosevelt, but as a president, I want to kill him. He said, quote, yes, I kill president. I tried. I want to kill him because I hate government. If he didn't die, I am sorry. Sorry I didn't kill him, So if I kill him, I am glad. He said he didn't care what happened to him, because quote, I'm half dead now because the capitalists they make me this way. And the sheriff asked, really, I think this first funny. The sheriff asked, do you like anarchism as the direct quote, and he said, no, foolish. What about socialism? No more foolish?

Ah.

Nice. He didn't like COMMUNI, he didn't like fascism, he didn't like Mussolini. He was very clear he had no organizational ties besides being member of the union, which he did not like very much, but he joined because it was the only way to get work. They asked him whether he wanted to kill the sheriff like someone else in the room. The guard was like, well, do you want to kill the sheriff? And he said he would not kill working men like himself. And so that's why I feel like on some level he's probably not like hey, I got everyone in the crowd. He just didn't care, which isn't you should care? You shouldn't kill people.

Yeah, just don't fire into crowds. Yeah, if you don't want to kill random people in the crowd, don't fire into a crowd.

Right. He said he had not discussed the plan with anyone. He had no accomplices. He also said he had no friends. He said he didn't believe in God. He believed in things he could see, like the earth, the sky, and the moon. They asked where he thought he'd go when he died, and they meant like, are you going to heaven or hell? You killed some people, and he said, quote, I go in the ground. Nice fucking goes hard.

Yeah.

He never showed the slightest bit of remorse. His stomach hurt from being overworked and abused. He blamed the capitalist government. It was right to kill the leaders of the capitalist government. And he didn't mind that he was going to die. He said, over and over again, I am right, and my life is ended. The Secret Service initially guessed that he was an anarchist with connection to groups in Patterson, New Jersey, but then they determined that he wasn't. They did this huge report. They traveled all over the country, they interviewed everyone that he'd ever met, and then that report disappeared in nineteen forty five, and we don't know what's in it.

Ah damn.

I see how people end up conspiracy minded or true crime brained, because almost certainly there was nothing of particular note in that report, and it matches what every other newspaper and witness agreed on, and everything is exactly what we think it is.

What made it disappear like what happens?

It was like transferred to the White House, and then it just kind of people lost track of it.

That's how storties get misinterpreted. Did people get called heroes, villains?

Yeah, you name it. Yeah.

I mean I think we can say he did not have links to any anarchists in Patterson, New Jersey, because if they had even found a hint of it, there would have been a fucking witch hunt.

They did arrest a bunch of people he knew, eventually let everyone out. That is the main reason that I agree. I think that they there were like different cops and agencies coming forward to being like, oh, we've been after him for years, been foiling his bomb making ring. Of anarchists, but it looked like they'd probably just made all that up.

Yeah, that sounds not true.

Also, people claim that he'd been working to kill Mussolini or Hoover, which is really funny because he had been working to try and kill the king, although actually some historians have been like, we have no evidence that he actually did that. It's just his own word, but I see no reason why would have lied about it. Or they claimed that he was in touch with the now underground Italian anarchist group the New Era. Other people assume he meant to kill cermac all along, that he'd been working for al Capone or maybe an Italian crime family as part of some big international thing. This is whatever, but he became a folk hero to some people. While he was in jail, people did old fashioned fed posting. Five unemployed brickmakers from Patterson were arrested because one of them wrote a friend a joke letter, and this is the like when I say joke letter, I'm like, or there's something here right. The letter was quote with my most sincere regrets, I'm forced to tell you of my brother bricklayer's unsuccessful attempt on the life of our president's elect if I were the one who had the honor of shooting at our present president, I assure you that I would take a week to practice and make a good job of it. It seems a shame to have in our midst a man of such poor aim. I do believe we should have a place where we could all go and practice up on our shooting as it looks like an open seat on presidents and politicians. That's like a joke, but not a joke.

It's like not a it's not that funny, no, But it also isn't what somebody would say if they were part of an organization that was trying to shoot people.

And like in a clear text letter that they yeah.

Yeah, like that isn't that just doesn't ring. It does not have the ring of truth to it. No, neither is it funny. But it's like Luigi posting. It's a thing like people aren't.

Being like, oh I I helped him, but instead they're like fuck those rich people.

I did enjoy all those posts that people made where they were like, oh yeah, Luigi, he was with me all week and yeah, specifically between the hours of five and eight am.

With bad photoshop jobs.

Yeah, that was that was funny. I surely had a good time with that.

Someone wrote Zangara a letter in code into the jail that was easily deciphered by the guards that congratulated him on his good work and mentioned some other places where politicians that he could go kill. The guy who wrote this again just fed posting. It's just nothing changes. Nothing changes is the moral here.

Photoshop had not been invented yet, so he could not do a bad photoshop for a joke, right.

The guy put his own return address on the letter, with a self addressed postcard inside so that he could hear back from his hero. He was taken to an insane asylum where he lived the rest of his life.

Jesus.

Yeah, and then people started sending letter bombs and shit and like threats to different politicians and stuff that would say things like I am a friend of Zangara and I want to take up the work he failed to do. I kill all presidents, governors and millionaires. They were like even copying his style of speaking. You know, yeah, I hate policemen and kill all your officers who I see on street at midnight.

Yeah there, I mean, it's this is very like, this is a.

Meme yeah, m hmm, totally. J Egar Hoover, the head of the FBI. I wrote basically, there's no sign of a conspiracy. He'd never been in Chicago and he was there to kill FDR once again.

J Edgar Hoover saw conspiracies everywhere, Like I feel like if there had been one, he would have noticed.

Sure, Jesus Edgar Hoover, he would have done it. Yeah, unless he's in on it. Sorry.

I a while back, a movie about Jay Edgar Hoover came out. I did not see it, but I saw a trailer for it, and then they introduced the character. The guy's like, this is John, He's our new up and comer from the Bureau. And the guy like looks straight into the camera and goes, Actually, I prefer Jay Edgar, And I think about it every time I think about j Edgar Hoover.

So funny, he's so bad.

So funny, that's all irrelevant.

And so all throughout his trial he showed no remorse, he showed no fear. He was just very clear. He's very consistent. And this was commented on heavily in the press. Basically he's on trial and then Sir Macte and so I was on death row, and he writes that memoir while he's on death row. Since the government file is lost. This is the single biggest source we have on his life. It is written in chapters, some of which are only a few sentences or paragraphs long. Each one ends with, thus ends the twelfth chapter of my life or whatever. Nice when I read from it earlier to be like when I was three, I fell in down the stairs, it goes, and thus ended the second chapter of my life when I was four, you know, And I want to read you some of this because some of the ones near the end of it. It's it's funny because again historians are like, we don't know what he believed. It's a mystery. But let me just read to you some of this stuff that he wrote that everyone had access to the whole time. Thirty third chapter. I will now tell you what I think about religion. My belief is that all religion was invented by capitalists. They invented them so people would respect their property. The Roman Catholic religion is the first one to talk about hell all caps. The priests do not do anything, and what they preach they know is false. They are like sharks working for the capitalists and spreading their propaganda and living off of the people who go to church and believe them. They talk of paradise in the next world, but there is no such thing. I believe that a person is in paradise when he has good health and plenty of money, and purgatory is when a person has good health and is working for a living. I believe that hell is when a person is sick and in misery, and that death ends it all. If I had my way, I would put all priests in hell so no one could save them. I believe that if all money is burned, it would do away with the priest's paradise. This finishes the thirty third chapter, and I'm going to read another one a second. But like, that goes pretty hard, I know, and it's kind of interesting because it didn't go anti semitic.

I appreciate that. Of course, the shark metaphor really did not work because he's like, they are like sharks who work for capitalism spread propaganda. I'm like, sharks don't.

Do that at all. Yeah, no, no, again, Like you know, very direct writer, but not necessarily the most polished. Thirty fourth chapter my idea, idea gets a capital eye, which is actually made me think that there might be an anarchist inspiration to that part of it, because the anarchists used to be called the idea of the capital eye when we were more openly sounded like a cult. My idea is just. I was always against the capitalist. This is the reason why I wanted to kill the head of this government, because the people that run the government do not work, and the poor working people have to support them. They suck the blood out of the poor people, and it is my belief that they ought to be killed. The poor support them on their shoulders. They are no good. They have all the money tied up. The poor are willing to work, but cannot because it takes money to make work. So what is the use of having money if the poor cannot have any to buy their food. What we ought to do is kill all of the capitalists, burn all of the money, and form a civil society of communism. I have nothing more to say. Tomorrow I go to the electric chair to die, but I am not afraid. I go contented because I go from my idea. I salute all of the poor of the world. A Riva Derci Zangara Juseppi, damn. Yeah, he definitely said what he believed, like, yeah.

There's there's not really a lot that you uh miss there. Yeah, like not mysterious, not mysterious, Miriam is exactly right, not mysterious, Thank you, Miriam.

Yeah, it just didn't make sense to them, So they were like, you're just saying crazy things. You can't just get rid of money and have communism that doesn't map to anything that I understand in nineteen thirty three, Like what fuck you?

I really do wonder how much of it was coming from the fact that it just did not map for people that he was talking about killing capitalists and the person he had targeted was FDR and that like, by the American standard totally that didn't compute.

Yeah, I think that's a huge part of it. And so go afraid to the electric chair is exactly what he did. He marched into the death chamber with his head held high. Final mystery. He handed a few notebooks to the warden, who said they contained only personal requests and they have never been published. They probably contained personal requests and which never published, but like, sure.

I hope at least one of them was like somebody punched my.

Dad, I know right. Guards tried to lead him to the chair, but he said, no, don't touch me. I go myself. I know, fraid of electric chair. I show you. I go sit down all by myself. And he went to the chair and he hesitated, and then he hopped down on the chair. One person was like, as though someone sitting down at a barber.

Hmm.

He thought the chair was already electrified. Hmmm. He looked surprised. When he sat down on the chair. He was like still alive. So he looked up around and was like, see, I know afraid of electric chair. His feet didn't touch the floor. Is the smallest person that they had ever murdered in the electric chair. They struggled to fit the cap to his head since his head was so small, and then they put a black hood over his head, and he spoke his last words, Viva Italia, goodbye to all poor people everywhere. Then he said, and this is the only part I'm gonna do where I'm gonna do his Italian because that's the way it's written. But I actually think at some point it's almost just evocative. He said, push it to button, Go ahead, push it to button and that's uh, that's the end of justep. He's on Garam.

That is a sad story, fucking tragedy.

Yeah, he is a sick, empathetic character. Who you know, He's like, I I have nothing more to say, goodbye to the poor people.

Yeah.

I think about how we were talking during break about how this compares to Leon Shogosh. And for anyone who's listening, Leon Schogosh was a He was an anarchist. He was actually US born. Everyone thought he wasn't, but he was.

They couldn't spell his last name, so they figured he must be foreign, right.

Also because he was an anarchist, they literally were like, there are no American born anarchists, is what they claim. At the time, he killed President McKinley, and he had been ostracized from the anarchist scene. He actually was an anarchist, he was very clear about it, but he'd been ostracized from the scene. People didn't trust him. People thought he was a FED. Basically fed didn't even exist yet.

There had been Emma Goldman had written a letter about him, an open letter in an anarchist publication that was basically saying, like everyone has been going around saying that this guy who keeps trying to join anarchist groups is a spy. He's just awkward. Stop saying that he's a spy. Be nice to him.

Yeah, And I think and I've seen this happen in smaller ways where people when they when they discover a cause, they want to get involved, and if they're socially ostracized, they will find ways to act on their own. And most of the ways that people want to act on their own around certain radical ideas are poor strategic decisions.

Yeah, I think he both believed that killing McKinley would be an effect of political act, but I think that like one of the main reasons might have been that he wanted to prove to other anarchists that he was legit right.

And I think that obviously GISEPPI wasn't in anarchists or communist circles as far as anyone can tell.

And I think also as people on reality TV say was not there to make friends, that's true, you know, and I think chol Gosh was there to make friends and wasn't good at it.

But I think that they, like I think this is a reason to talk about why we need to be inclusive mm hmmm, because there's people who who want to make the world better for very good reasons, and I think that a social direction is a much more useful one, one that is socially constructed, one that like we get together and say, like, what is a good way to make the world a better place. You know, I'm not trying to be like individual acts of no purpose or whatever, like I'm not trying to make sweeping generalizations here, But I just see this and I'm like, I see why he was isolated from everyone. He didn't really like people, and then he just suffered all the time and he felt really alienated by that. But I'm like, I wish he had gotten to feel supported and like, yeah, I don't know.

And with chol Gosh, he did this thing. He assassinated the president for the you know what he saw as like the anarchist cause, and I think to prove himself to anarchists. Most anarchists immediately decry, you know, like his actions and like said like, oh, this is like not at all okay. And then there was a huge crackdown on anarchists in the United States.

And it more or less ended anarchism as ah it didn't help the anarchist movement in the US.

Yeah, exactly. It really harmed the anarchist movement in the US, and it, you know, was not strategic. Yeah, and you know, and of course he was executed too. And like, had he found a community when he showed up looking for an anarchist community, I think that that would have gone really differently totally, because he very obviously did not sit down with anybody else and say like, so I'm thinking of killing McKinley. Yeah, And I think if he had, and he had had people like who had his and the movement's best interests at heart, they would have been like, hey, I no, that's not a great idea. Why don't you help organize industrial workers?

Yeah, totally, because it's like most of the time the things that actually changed things are less glamorous and more work and like involve working with people.

Yeah, and I don't know, but there's always work for the client guy who's not good at working with people too. You know, everybody else is out there organizing factory workers and somebody needs to take notes, you.

Know, No, totally, and it's like there's still ways to be And I say, this is like I live alone on a mountain, you know, by choice. Yeah, my favorite person is my dog, and like you all are great too, but I can't.

I can't compare to rentro We know your dog is phenomenal, we.

Know, yeah, And so there is a place for the introvert. There is a place for the people who like And most of my work is self directed, but I see it within this larger framework, and it is a terrible I'm not trying to make one to one comparisons here, and especially right now, I'd be terrified too, but you know, and and Zangara also he isn't show gosh right, he's but he's more of just like a person who organically on kind of his own, but probably through conversation too. Like it's probably something that was in the air hit upon. Capitalism is the problem rich kids getting to go to school while I'm digging dirt by the side of the road when I'm five years old is a problem. And he had no particular interest in continuing to live because of the misery that he felt he had been put into by capitalism, and he just wanted a way to try to help by lashing out. And I don't think it was I don't think it was good. And the Shakespearean level of tragedy of killing the guy who was working on exactly his issue is written by a cruel god.

You know, the fact that the only person who actually died from his attack was like the guy who was explicitly there to ensure that poor children got to go to school.

He would have gone to go to school. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And that's why you don't kill random people.

The episodes, Yeah, this has been a PSA about not firing a gun into a crowd, a thing we can't believe we have to tell people not to do.

Anyway, I'm sure, actually, I know specifically next week I'll be back with things that are more bull throatedly positive things in the world. But for now, is there anything you want to plug?

Well, first of all, that was a fucking fascinating story, and I'm really glad you told it to me, so thank you. I'm sorry I gave you grief for it not being as happy as I was expecting. But that's like the pattern around here.

Also, yeah, I like to mix it up, so people are always a little bit anxious, you know, where it's like, yeah, three quarters of the time you're gonna end up really happy and then you know, yeah.

And nothing else that's been happening this week has made me anxious, So I really appreciate it. As far as things to plug, I would like to plug the podcasting collective and publishing collective that you and I are in Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness. We publish books, we publish zines, we publish podcasts, we publish RPGs, We do it all. It's so cool. People should check out Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness. They should even like, maybe check out our Patreon, and they should help support the kickstarter for this new book by this exciting author named Margaret Kiljoy. And that book is called The Immortal Choir Holds Every Voice.

No, it's the Eternal.

I'm hanging up right now.

It is The Immortal Choir. Yeah. I wrote another book in the Daniel Kaine series. It's going to come out this summer, but it's going to kickstart in March. And if you go back and want to hear the first book, it's called The Lamble Slaughter of the Lion. I told you no one will be able to remember the titles of my books, but it's the very first episodes of Cool Zone Media book Club, and then I kind of want to plug Dinah Wars. But if you listen to this podcast, you probably know about Dinah Wars. Dino Wars are happening every Uncle's n Media book Club because it's been really fun to write podcasts from the future, and Sophie's in one of them.

And the second Daniel Kane book is called The Barrel Will Send What It May? I do remember the names of your books.

Well done.

All three books are great. People should read them, Yeah, and like adapt them to a TV series. I think they would make an amazing TV series.

But I agree, Yeah, I think soby.

Yeah, we finally did the Oprah episodes on Behind the Bastard, So if you're like, oh, you've been waiting for those, it's a sixth parter. Most of them are out, should be all out by the time this or almost out by the time these drops.

Yeah, then that last one will be tomorrow.

Probably probably allegedly so many parts.

Yeah, but Oprah has been such a recurring character all throughout Behind the Bastards that makes sense. Yeah, It's like could be when I finally do Mala Testa.

You know, also, she's been so relevant for so many decks gids.

Yeah, the excellent podcast Maintenance Face, which would have a lot to say about Franklin Dionysus Roosevelt's the best one, all right, Sorry about his fat shaming. They they have basically done it behind the Bastards on specifically the diet culture aspect of Oprah's work, as.

Has my dear friend Sarah Marshall. And you're wrong about Oh.

Oh, I love that one.

There's so many good shows, but you shouldn't listen to any of them except this one, except this.

One and the Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness ones.

Yeah, those are fine if Sophie or Miriam or me is on it, or is produced by any of those people, or you just like it, or has Sarah Marshall?

Sure if I've described somebody as my dear friend permitted?

Yeah, no Sarah Marshall's grandfather yet, or I guess people just listen whatever they want.

Yeah, well, listen whatever you want.

All right.

That's podcast, Bye everyone, Bye bye. Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool Zone Media, visit our website Foolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff

As long as there’s been oppression, there’ve been people fighting it. This weekly podcast dives into 
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