Cool Zone Media.

Cool Zone Media.

Hello and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff. You're a weekly reminder that sometimes we run rewinds. You probably didn't know that, but I'm recording an introduction for both of the old episodes, and this is the introduction for the second one. Because I do episodes mostly in pairs because they come out twice a week. You've probably figured that out. Anyway, Here's an episode that I care a lot about about gay resistance to fascism. Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff. I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy, and this week I'm talking with Shreen. How you doing good?

Hello and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff. You're a weekly reminder that sometimes we run rewinds. You probably didn't know that, but I'm recording an introduction for both of the old episodes, and this is the introduction for the second one. Because I do episodes mostly in pairs because they come out twice a week. You've probably figured that out. Anyway, Here's an episode that I care a lot about about gay resistance to fascism. Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff. I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy, and this week I'm talking with Shreen. How you doing good?

Actually, I know I said the first time you told me, I just said I was like basically doing bad. But after the recording the first part. I don't know if people know that record them back to back, but I feel much better than I did earlier. So I feel good after hearing about all these cool fucking people. Yeah.

Actually, I know I said the first time you told me, I just said I was like basically doing bad. But after the recording the first part. I don't know if people know that record them back to back, but I feel much better than I did earlier. So I feel good after hearing about all these cool fucking people. Yeah.

Cool. And our producer Sophie is on the line as well. Sophie, how are you?

Cool. And our producer Sophie is on the line as well. Sophie, how are you?

I'm great? Drinking a cream? So does Zva live in my best life?

I'm great? Drinking a cream? So does Zva live in my best life?

You know?

You know?

So speaking of aftertastes and Nazis, And there's this I actually don't know how to do this segway. But you are listening to part two of our two part series on gay resistance to Fascism, and so you're probably a little bit confused if you haven't heard the episode that came out Monday. So you should go back and listen to it if you haven't.

So speaking of aftertastes and Nazis, And there's this I actually don't know how to do this segway. But you are listening to part two of our two part series on gay resistance to Fascism, and so you're probably a little bit confused if you haven't heard the episode that came out Monday. So you should go back and listen to it if you haven't.

Yeah, you really should. It's a really good episode, and yeah, you will learn about a lot of really cool people. And this is coming from a very big cynic, so this is good.

Yeah, you really should. It's a really good episode, and yeah, you will learn about a lot of really cool people. And this is coming from a very big cynic, so this is good.

It's like, try to impress the cynic is like an interesting not.

It's like, try to impress the cynic is like an interesting not.

Even about impressing. It's like, will I still be miserable by the end of this, you know what I mean? Like it's like, yeah, you know what.

Even about impressing. It's like, will I still be miserable by the end of this, you know what I mean? Like it's like, yeah, you know what.

Okay, Well this one is going to be Oh I don't want to spoil it, Okay. So where we last left off, there was like a motley crew of queers, artists and medical students in Amsterdam who just pulled off a like heist movie level antics to blow up a Nazi records storehouse. And today we're going to bring things back to Germany. So Germany, there's a country called Germany. Weymar Germany is the period from nineteen nineteen after Germany got its fucking ass handed to it in the First World War to nineteen thirty three, when Hitler came to power and did the whole Hitler thing that I presume most people are familiar with on some level. And Weymar Germany had a lot going for it, right. It was a republic, for one thing, which is a step up from dictatorships and such. People could like vote and shit, and there was free speech, there was free assembly, There was no state religion, some of the gay laws weren't being enforced, although they were still there. And the government was based out of a city called Weimar, which is how they got the name Weymar Germany. But Germany was completely fucked economically. World War One left their economy in shambles. Hyperinflation took over. Everyone was hungry and you know, fucked, and then they had the fucking worldwide depres after all of that on top of it.

Okay, Well this one is going to be Oh I don't want to spoil it, Okay. So where we last left off, there was like a motley crew of queers, artists and medical students in Amsterdam who just pulled off a like heist movie level antics to blow up a Nazi records storehouse. And today we're going to bring things back to Germany. So Germany, there's a country called Germany. Weymar Germany is the period from nineteen nineteen after Germany got its fucking ass handed to it in the First World War to nineteen thirty three, when Hitler came to power and did the whole Hitler thing that I presume most people are familiar with on some level. And Weymar Germany had a lot going for it, right. It was a republic, for one thing, which is a step up from dictatorships and such. People could like vote and shit, and there was free speech, there was free assembly, There was no state religion, some of the gay laws weren't being enforced, although they were still there. And the government was based out of a city called Weimar, which is how they got the name Weymar Germany. But Germany was completely fucked economically. World War One left their economy in shambles. Hyperinflation took over. Everyone was hungry and you know, fucked, and then they had the fucking worldwide depres after all of that on top of it.

I mean, I think that's the reason why the Nazis worked, you know what I mean. They had to like kind of get the desperate, do you know what I mean? Like they had to really and like then Hitler quotes like, oh he can save us, kind of thing. I think they had to have the previous shitty part in order to even do that totally part, if that makes sense.

I mean, I think that's the reason why the Nazis worked, you know what I mean. They had to like kind of get the desperate, do you know what I mean? Like they had to really and like then Hitler quotes like, oh he can save us, kind of thing. I think they had to have the previous shitty part in order to even do that totally part, if that makes sense.

Totally because people are so fucked they're like, I'll try anything.

Totally because people are so fucked they're like, I'll try anything.

Yeah, exactly, exactly yeah.

Yeah, exactly, exactly yeah.

And then so most of the stuff I'd been exposed to about by Our Germany, which focused on really cool stuff, because by Our Germany it was this very interesting artistic time period, and mostly I'd heard about the cabaret scene, all the sort of decading queer artists who try to live fancy, free lives while they're basically starving, and all of that is like true and interesting and beautiful, but it's only one part of Germany's culture at the time, and actually only one part of it. It's queerness and it's queer culture. You've also got this really messy assortment of different organizations that have different names but get called like the Vondervogel or the German youth movement or the hiking clubs, and these go back decades. They go back to the eighteen nineties, and there's this movement that it kind of looks like boy Scouts if Boy Scouts was like a fuck off huge thing that involved millions of boys and girls, both through various levels of formal and informal organization, with weird paganism, vegetarianism, nudism and queerness running out through the entire thing. So not actually very much like boy scouts.

And then so most of the stuff I'd been exposed to about by Our Germany, which focused on really cool stuff, because by Our Germany it was this very interesting artistic time period, and mostly I'd heard about the cabaret scene, all the sort of decading queer artists who try to live fancy, free lives while they're basically starving, and all of that is like true and interesting and beautiful, but it's only one part of Germany's culture at the time, and actually only one part of it. It's queerness and it's queer culture. You've also got this really messy assortment of different organizations that have different names but get called like the Vondervogel or the German youth movement or the hiking clubs, and these go back decades. They go back to the eighteen nineties, and there's this movement that it kind of looks like boy Scouts if Boy Scouts was like a fuck off huge thing that involved millions of boys and girls, both through various levels of formal and informal organization, with weird paganism, vegetarianism, nudism and queerness running out through the entire thing. So not actually very much like boy scouts.

I would like to be that kind of boy scout.

I would like to be that kind of boy scout.

Oh okay, well then you're going to love our characters today. So millions of German kids formed these hiking clubs and spent their days like camping and getting in touch with nature. It was an anti modernist movement at a lot of parts of it. And whenever people are like, oh, it was this, it's like, it's all kinds of different things all happening at the same time. But it was kind of a lot of it was about leaving civilization behind. A lot of it was German nationalists, although it didn't have a necessarily an anti Semitic character as far as I can tell, at least on any systemic level. Some of it was really middle class and some of it was really working class, and a lot of it was just fucking outright criminal in kind of the best and worst ways. There's a French gay anarchist named Daniel Geeren who wrote about the movement in the nineteen thirties because he would go visit nineteen thirties Germany because it was a fucking awesome place to be a gay anarchist.

Oh okay, well then you're going to love our characters today. So millions of German kids formed these hiking clubs and spent their days like camping and getting in touch with nature. It was an anti modernist movement at a lot of parts of it. And whenever people are like, oh, it was this, it's like, it's all kinds of different things all happening at the same time. But it was kind of a lot of it was about leaving civilization behind. A lot of it was German nationalists, although it didn't have a necessarily an anti Semitic character as far as I can tell, at least on any systemic level. Some of it was really middle class and some of it was really working class, and a lot of it was just fucking outright criminal in kind of the best and worst ways. There's a French gay anarchist named Daniel Geeren who wrote about the movement in the nineteen thirties because he would go visit nineteen thirties Germany because it was a fucking awesome place to be a gay anarchist.

But he found it.

But he found it.

He found this movement increasingly politically polarized between the communists and the fascists. And as the whole worldwide depression is hitting, more and more youth are finding themselves homeless. They choose itinerant lifestyles overstaying still in one place. So the movement keeps growing, and it keeps polarizing and doing all kinds of weird shit. In nineteen thirty three, huge chunks of has come to an abrupt end when Hitler bans all alternative youth organizations that aren't the Hitler Youth. A lot of the more mainstreams of these groups just basically become the Hitler Youth, and in nineteen thirty nine he makes participation in the Hitler Youth compulsory. But the youth movement went a lot lot of different directions. Not all of it went into Hitler Youth, as we'll get into, but some of it did. And so we're going to talk about gay Nazis now. These are not the cool people who did cool stuff.

He found this movement increasingly politically polarized between the communists and the fascists. And as the whole worldwide depression is hitting, more and more youth are finding themselves homeless. They choose itinerant lifestyles overstaying still in one place. So the movement keeps growing, and it keeps polarizing and doing all kinds of weird shit. In nineteen thirty three, huge chunks of has come to an abrupt end when Hitler bans all alternative youth organizations that aren't the Hitler Youth. A lot of the more mainstreams of these groups just basically become the Hitler Youth, and in nineteen thirty nine he makes participation in the Hitler Youth compulsory. But the youth movement went a lot lot of different directions. Not all of it went into Hitler Youth, as we'll get into, but some of it did. And so we're going to talk about gay Nazis now. These are not the cool people who did cool stuff.

Well, got to balance it out, I suppose, But also, yeah, I'm fascinated where this will go.

Well, got to balance it out, I suppose, But also, yeah, I'm fascinated where this will go.

My own experience with boy Scouts. I was a boy Scout and my best friend and who is a boy Scout, came out as trans like years before I did. And so I love that, you know, me and my best friend, because people are like, oh, they're letting girls into boy Scouts now, and like me and a lot of other trans women are like, oh no, they always did. That's a that's but so gay Nazis, that's the thing. Yeah. So before Hitler took over completely and the National Socialists were just like one of the parties in Germany. They were actually the only political party in Wymar, Germany with unknown high ranking gay member. Ernst Rohm was the leader of Hitler's essay, which are usually called the brown Shirts, which are basically the parties like street thugs who operate outside the law, like you know when Trump told his brown Shirts proud Boys to stand by and stand back, a similar sort of organization. And aernstram was really into this hyper masculinity thing. He's so anti you know, you're so anti feminine that you don't fuck women, right, yeah, and he's really into authority and discipline and obedience. Those are good manly things, unlike democracy, socialism, anarchism, fucking girls, all that weird soft yeah. And this is not to say that the Nazis were pro gay. They were just kind of pro hypocrisy. I think even before they came to the power, they were the most adamantly anti gay party in politics. But even the Social Democrats, who were the ones who weren't enforcing paragraph on seventy five and were part of trying to fight to get paragraph on seventy five appealed when they used they used homophobic language to try and talk shit on the Nazis. Basically they were like, oh, Rom's gay and so, and they like published his private letters in order to basically be like, if you support the Nazis, you support pedophilia and gayness, and the Nazis will corrupt our children, and so no one's fucking good at this point, no political party is looking good. The Nazis are clearly looking the worst. But it's just kind of interesting to me. And this causes us split in the gay rights scene. Right, some groups like the Scientific Humanitarian Committee, which is as magnus Hirschfeld, the guy I was talking about a lot. Last episode, he warns the gay Nazis. He's like, you know, the fucking Nazis are going to come after you too, right. But then the other big organization at the time, this is really not something to be proud of. They're like, what nah, They're not coming after all the gay people, just those Jewish gay people buckers. Yeah, but but spoiler alert, the Nazis are coming after all the Cays. On June thirtieth, nineteen thirty four, on what gets called the Night of Long Knives, Hitler has Rom and a whole bunch of the other Brown Shirt leaders just murdered and in public. Hitler was like, oh, I definitely did this because Rom was going to betray me. But it was really transparently. Hitler was tired of being made fun of for putting up with gay people in the ranks. His pal Mussolini like to make fun of him, and they were like, oh, you're harboring gays, you know whatever, you.

My own experience with boy Scouts. I was a boy Scout and my best friend and who is a boy Scout, came out as trans like years before I did. And so I love that, you know, me and my best friend, because people are like, oh, they're letting girls into boy Scouts now, and like me and a lot of other trans women are like, oh no, they always did. That's a that's but so gay Nazis, that's the thing. Yeah. So before Hitler took over completely and the National Socialists were just like one of the parties in Germany. They were actually the only political party in Wymar, Germany with unknown high ranking gay member. Ernst Rohm was the leader of Hitler's essay, which are usually called the brown Shirts, which are basically the parties like street thugs who operate outside the law, like you know when Trump told his brown Shirts proud Boys to stand by and stand back, a similar sort of organization. And aernstram was really into this hyper masculinity thing. He's so anti you know, you're so anti feminine that you don't fuck women, right, yeah, and he's really into authority and discipline and obedience. Those are good manly things, unlike democracy, socialism, anarchism, fucking girls, all that weird soft yeah. And this is not to say that the Nazis were pro gay. They were just kind of pro hypocrisy. I think even before they came to the power, they were the most adamantly anti gay party in politics. But even the Social Democrats, who were the ones who weren't enforcing paragraph on seventy five and were part of trying to fight to get paragraph on seventy five appealed when they used they used homophobic language to try and talk shit on the Nazis. Basically they were like, oh, Rom's gay and so, and they like published his private letters in order to basically be like, if you support the Nazis, you support pedophilia and gayness, and the Nazis will corrupt our children, and so no one's fucking good at this point, no political party is looking good. The Nazis are clearly looking the worst. But it's just kind of interesting to me. And this causes us split in the gay rights scene. Right, some groups like the Scientific Humanitarian Committee, which is as magnus Hirschfeld, the guy I was talking about a lot. Last episode, he warns the gay Nazis. He's like, you know, the fucking Nazis are going to come after you too, right. But then the other big organization at the time, this is really not something to be proud of. They're like, what nah, They're not coming after all the gay people, just those Jewish gay people buckers. Yeah, but but spoiler alert, the Nazis are coming after all the Cays. On June thirtieth, nineteen thirty four, on what gets called the Night of Long Knives, Hitler has Rom and a whole bunch of the other Brown Shirt leaders just murdered and in public. Hitler was like, oh, I definitely did this because Rom was going to betray me. But it was really transparently. Hitler was tired of being made fun of for putting up with gay people in the ranks. His pal Mussolini like to make fun of him, and they were like, oh, you're harboring gays, you know whatever, you.

Know his pal Mussolini, Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

Know his pal Mussolini, Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

That's like the very first no homo with consequences or something.

That's like the very first no homo with consequences or something.

I don't know, Yeah, totally. And then what's kind of interesting is that Hitler probably didn't personally have a problem with Rome's homosexuality. He just he was a fucking people pleaser and he wanted people to like him, which has definitely never happened. Again, there's never been a populist right wing leader any time in history, certainly not in the past ten years in the United States who has clearly not had any problem personally with gay people.

I don't know, Yeah, totally. And then what's kind of interesting is that Hitler probably didn't personally have a problem with Rome's homosexuality. He just he was a fucking people pleaser and he wanted people to like him, which has definitely never happened. Again, there's never been a populist right wing leader any time in history, certainly not in the past ten years in the United States who has clearly not had any problem personally with gay people.

And no, yeah, yeah, but greatest country in the world.

And no, yeah, yeah, but greatest country in the world.

Wow, we're the ones who beat these Nazis.

Wow, we're the ones who beat these Nazis.

Okay, so we're the heroes of this story.

Okay, so we're the heroes of this story.

Yeah, and then fire the conductor for being gay. So in private, Hitler would either defend or attack Ro's homosexuality depending on the audience, right, Like, sometimes he was like, oh, that was in his misspent youth and he's learned better now. And other times he's like, ah, us, worldly men, we understand that such thing has happened, and are fine. That's my Hitler accent. I don't do accents, you should.

Yeah, and then fire the conductor for being gay. So in private, Hitler would either defend or attack Ro's homosexuality depending on the audience, right, Like, sometimes he was like, oh, that was in his misspent youth and he's learned better now. And other times he's like, ah, us, worldly men, we understand that such thing has happened, and are fine. That's my Hitler accent. I don't do accents, you should.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I also don't do accents, but I think I when I tried, I've learned my lesson.

Yeah, I also don't do accents, but I think I when I tried, I've learned my lesson.

So yeah, I'm reasonably certain that if someone put a gun to my head and said that I had to speak like a British person for two minutes or I would die. I would die because I genuinely believe that with a gun to my head, I would not be able to talk with a British accent.

So yeah, I'm reasonably certain that if someone put a gun to my head and said that I had to speak like a British person for two minutes or I would die. I would die because I genuinely believe that with a gun to my head, I would not be able to talk with a British accent.

No, no, no, no no. I did a live reading of Twilight once with Bechdel Class another amazing podcast. Yeah, and I had to voice one of the characters who was French for and like in the thing, he has an accent, and so I tried before we recorded, I was like, can I do this? And I tried to have a French accent and I sounded like Jamaican every time. It was so I was that was like cemented, like Sharin accents are not for you. This is not so yeah, but no accents are hard. So I understand, and I don't want to do that to the audience.

No, no, no, no no. I did a live reading of Twilight once with Bechdel Class another amazing podcast. Yeah, and I had to voice one of the characters who was French for and like in the thing, he has an accent, and so I tried before we recorded, I was like, can I do this? And I tried to have a French accent and I sounded like Jamaican every time. It was so I was that was like cemented, like Sharin accents are not for you. This is not so yeah, but no accents are hard. So I understand, and I don't want to do that to the audience.

Okay. So another one of the people that another one of the gay brown Shirts that Hitler has killed, was a guy named Edmund Hines who was actually Hitler's cell mate after the failed couve nineteen twenty three the Beer Hall putsch and he was one of the fucking original Nazis. Like literally, he was number seventy eight in the enlisting in the National Socialists, and he was gay as hell, and when they came for him during the Night of Long Knives, he was in bed with a lover.

Okay. So another one of the people that another one of the gay brown Shirts that Hitler has killed, was a guy named Edmund Hines who was actually Hitler's cell mate after the failed couve nineteen twenty three the Beer Hall putsch and he was one of the fucking original Nazis. Like literally, he was number seventy eight in the enlisting in the National Socialists, and he was gay as hell, and when they came for him during the Night of Long Knives, he was in bed with a lover.

Wow.

Wow.

By nineteen forty one, Hitler starts suggesting the death penalty for gay kids in the Hitler Youth and then they pass the death penalty for GAYSS members. But what they do instead, I mean a lot of them they kill, right, some of those sentences get commuted to go be cannon fodder in the war against Russia, which I think they actually did to a lot of Yeah, a lot of people end up dying that way, get taken out of prison and sent to go die on the Eastern Front, or they're sent to serve. And it's like all criminal dearly Vonger brigade of the SS, which is basically a brigade within the SS, that's like all of the worst people and the criminals. And I put worst people in quotes, but like you know where they like go give criminals a chance to go die. I bring all this stuff up. Okay, do you know that meme? The I never thought leopards would eat my face, said the person who voted for the leopards eating people's faces party.

By nineteen forty one, Hitler starts suggesting the death penalty for gay kids in the Hitler Youth and then they pass the death penalty for GAYSS members. But what they do instead, I mean a lot of them they kill, right, some of those sentences get commuted to go be cannon fodder in the war against Russia, which I think they actually did to a lot of Yeah, a lot of people end up dying that way, get taken out of prison and sent to go die on the Eastern Front, or they're sent to serve. And it's like all criminal dearly Vonger brigade of the SS, which is basically a brigade within the SS, that's like all of the worst people and the criminals. And I put worst people in quotes, but like you know where they like go give criminals a chance to go die. I bring all this stuff up. Okay, do you know that meme? The I never thought leopards would eat my face, said the person who voted for the leopards eating people's faces party.

No, I don't know, this is what I just said.

No, I don't know, this is what I just said.

Okay, okay, okay, okay, no, no, no, I mean it's just basically this. It's like someone's like, but I never thought the leopards would eat my face, right, the person who voted for the leopards eating people's faces party. And that's how I feel about the gay Nazis.

Okay, okay, okay, okay, no, no, no, I mean it's just basically this. It's like someone's like, but I never thought the leopards would eat my face, right, the person who voted for the leopards eating people's faces party. And that's how I feel about the gay Nazis.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

And the reasons to bring this up in this like otherwise conversation about good gay people is that I feel like, Okay, when we talk about the bad people in history who are gay, we're usually playing into this trope that like all of them were closeted, right, h But these gays Nazis weren't. They were not closeted. They were open about their interests. It was part of their like storied tradition of right wing homosexuality that ran concurrently with left wing in a political homosexuality.

And the reasons to bring this up in this like otherwise conversation about good gay people is that I feel like, Okay, when we talk about the bad people in history who are gay, we're usually playing into this trope that like all of them were closeted, right, h But these gays Nazis weren't. They were not closeted. They were open about their interests. It was part of their like storied tradition of right wing homosexuality that ran concurrently with left wing in a political homosexuality.

And is it just like internalized homophobia or like hatred that's I tried to wrap my head around stuff like that, like what they tell themselves to legitimize their existence or like what they're doing. So it's like, I don't.

And is it just like internalized homophobia or like hatred that's I tried to wrap my head around stuff like that, like what they tell themselves to legitimize their existence or like what they're doing. So it's like, I don't.

Know, you're just fucking racists, you know, and they're like, I like the racist Party, and then they're like, but the racist Party hates you for being gay, and you're like, well, I don't care. I'm so racist that that's you know. It's like we see that a lot.

Know, you're just fucking racists, you know, and they're like, I like the racist Party, and then they're like, but the racist Party hates you for being gay, and you're like, well, I don't care. I'm so racist that that's you know. It's like we see that a lot.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, And like the modern far right in the United States, there are like, you know, gay members of it, and you're just like, what are you fucking doing? They hate you and we'll laugh at you and kill you at the first opportunity, and you're like, no, they like me, you know.

Yeah, And like the modern far right in the United States, there are like, you know, gay members of it, and you're just like, what are you fucking doing? They hate you and we'll laugh at you and kill you at the first opportunity, and you're like, no, they like me, you know.

You know, I just thought of it's probably power that changes it, you know what I mean, Like, if you feel like you're a little bit not untouchable, but like protected, you feel more able to be a hypocrite.

You know, I just thought of it's probably power that changes it, you know what I mean, Like, if you feel like you're a little bit not untouchable, but like protected, you feel more able to be a hypocrite.

I feel like, right, yeah, no, that that actually makes sense. And honestly, like almost everything comes down to power at the end.

I feel like, right, yeah, no, that that actually makes sense. And honestly, like almost everything comes down to power at the end.

Yeah, okay, ready, okay.

Yeah, okay, ready, okay.

And so the other reason to bring all this up is that I think that we forget that a lot of this shit has like really high stakes, the way that we talk about sex and sexuality and gender, and I would argue that we should be on the lookout for when some segment of oh I don't know feminism or gay politics starts making common cause with the right wing, which obviously would never happen. Now, No feminists would just start making common cause with the right wing at all.

And so the other reason to bring all this up is that I think that we forget that a lot of this shit has like really high stakes, the way that we talk about sex and sexuality and gender, and I would argue that we should be on the lookout for when some segment of oh I don't know feminism or gay politics starts making common cause with the right wing, which obviously would never happen. Now, No feminists would just start making common cause with the right wing at all.

No, no, oh, no white feminism here, yeah, exactly. Oh god, I just thought I was I wanted to make like a really subtle Harry Potter reference, but I went fast enough, and so I just went with that the most. But you should know a listener that I was trying to talk about Jake k.

No, no, oh, no white feminism here, yeah, exactly. Oh god, I just thought I was I wanted to make like a really subtle Harry Potter reference, but I went fast enough, and so I just went with that the most. But you should know a listener that I was trying to talk about Jake k.

Rowling anyway, me too, That's what I was thinking of too. Yeah. Okay, so so you've got the gay Nazis. They don't last very long, fuck them whatever. But now I want to talk about gay pirates.

Rowling anyway, me too, That's what I was thinking of too. Yeah. Okay, so so you've got the gay Nazis. They don't last very long, fuck them whatever. But now I want to talk about gay pirates.

Hell yeah, let's do this.

Hell yeah, let's do this.

Yeah, I want to talk about the Edelwise pirates, who are so much fucking cooler, and they're on the opposite side of all this. So all the youth from the what I was saying, when they're all itinerant doing all this crazy shit. They're running around in these like it gets a million names buns or bands or clubs or clicks or whatever, and they're coming out of the vonder Vogel and all these related movements and the whitewashed version of history that I'd run across primarily before doing the research honestly has them like wandering around the pristine German countryside, like singing camp songs and thinking about like marrying their heterosexual sweethearts monogamously and popping out pure Ariyan babies and all that shit. Right, But like this could not be further from the truth, this growing culture of vagabondism and has a desire for change because they're all fucking broken, hungry, and mainstream societies completely failed them, and more and more of them were living in camps and again totally unfamiliar to people today, as you know, whatever. A lot of the clubs were just gangs. They were the wild gangs, and they were in a war against civilization and everything boring. Every winter they would like disband in every Easter, they would celebrate their click or their gang's rebirth. Their camp songs were parodies of the Hitler youth songs. They told dirty jokes, They got into fistfights with the Hitler youth. Basically, with all the men off to war, the Hitler youth were acting like the police, and a lot of German cities and so they and they lived criminal lives and they fucked and oh my god, did they fuck. And it was anything but straight, anything but monogamous. Like it's it's like queer enough to like maybe even get me a little bit like, oh my, maybe that's not the right way to go about these.

Yeah, I want to talk about the Edelwise pirates, who are so much fucking cooler, and they're on the opposite side of all this. So all the youth from the what I was saying, when they're all itinerant doing all this crazy shit. They're running around in these like it gets a million names buns or bands or clubs or clicks or whatever, and they're coming out of the vonder Vogel and all these related movements and the whitewashed version of history that I'd run across primarily before doing the research honestly has them like wandering around the pristine German countryside, like singing camp songs and thinking about like marrying their heterosexual sweethearts monogamously and popping out pure Ariyan babies and all that shit. Right, But like this could not be further from the truth, this growing culture of vagabondism and has a desire for change because they're all fucking broken, hungry, and mainstream societies completely failed them, and more and more of them were living in camps and again totally unfamiliar to people today, as you know, whatever. A lot of the clubs were just gangs. They were the wild gangs, and they were in a war against civilization and everything boring. Every winter they would like disband in every Easter, they would celebrate their click or their gang's rebirth. Their camp songs were parodies of the Hitler youth songs. They told dirty jokes, They got into fistfights with the Hitler youth. Basically, with all the men off to war, the Hitler youth were acting like the police, and a lot of German cities and so they and they lived criminal lives and they fucked and oh my god, did they fuck. And it was anything but straight, anything but monogamous. Like it's it's like queer enough to like maybe even get me a little bit like, oh my, maybe that's not the right way to go about these.

Things, you know.

Things, you know.

So these are not the assimilationist gays. These are street fighting, forest fucking, sex working, Nazi robbing, criminal queers.

So these are not the assimilationist gays. These are street fighting, forest fucking, sex working, Nazi robbing, criminal queers.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's like the anarchy of gay Yeah.

It's like the anarchy of gay Yeah.

And and they're called the they have a lot of different names, but the one I'm going to use now is the wild Fry, which means the wild free, which was one of their mottos. And they would have like things emblazoned while I'll get to that, and they live up to the name. History mostly remembers like a subsect of them called the Edelwy's Pirates. And and I've got flies. Yeah it's a flower. Oh interesting, Okay, I think I know, right. Yeah. So so I've got information kind of about two generations of wild Fry, and one chunk comes from about nineteen thirty and one chunk comes from the early forties. And so I'm kind of doing my best to give an honest like the way that these two connect, but there isn't a lot of information about that because all of the shit is so hetero washed. But so it's an important I'm going to do an imperfect job, but I'm going to do the best I can and quote original sources and all that shit. And because people when they mentioned Edelway's Pirates, they present the sort of like generic working class youth subculture who ruled and were brave as fuck and they like fought Nazis. There's a movie about them called, I think it's called Edewais Pirates.

And and they're called the they have a lot of different names, but the one I'm going to use now is the wild Fry, which means the wild free, which was one of their mottos. And they would have like things emblazoned while I'll get to that, and they live up to the name. History mostly remembers like a subsect of them called the Edelwy's Pirates. And and I've got flies. Yeah it's a flower. Oh interesting, Okay, I think I know, right. Yeah. So so I've got information kind of about two generations of wild Fry, and one chunk comes from about nineteen thirty and one chunk comes from the early forties. And so I'm kind of doing my best to give an honest like the way that these two connect, but there isn't a lot of information about that because all of the shit is so hetero washed. But so it's an important I'm going to do an imperfect job, but I'm going to do the best I can and quote original sources and all that shit. And because people when they mentioned Edelway's Pirates, they present the sort of like generic working class youth subculture who ruled and were brave as fuck and they like fought Nazis. There's a movie about them called, I think it's called Edewais Pirates.

But again it gets taken out, yeah.

But again it gets taken out, yeah.

Totally, and it doesn't talk about their origins and it definitely doesn't talk about gay fucking. And so Daniel Gearen, who's the French anarchist who wants to go hang out gay folks in Germany, so does. He describes a run in with them in his book called the Brown Plague, which is a doesn't translate well now, but means that it's critical of the rising tide of fashion them. Okay, one Sunday on the outskirts of Berlin, we met, by chance a strange troop on the road. Needless to say, Neither of their short pants, their bere calves, which disappeared under their long wolf vests, the bulky and sundry loads swaying on their backs, nor their enormous hiking boots distinguished them from ordinary vagabonds. But they were very much tuffs. They had the depraved and troubled faces of hoodlums, and the most bizarre coverings on their heads. Black or gray chaplain esque bowlers, old women's hats with the brims turned up in amazon fashion, adorned with ostrich plumes and metals. Proletarian navigator caps decorated with enormous edelwise above the visor. Handkerchiefs. Are scarves and streaming colors tied any which way around the neck. Bare chests bursting out of open skin, vests with broad stripes, arms scored with fantastic or lewde tattoos, ears hung with pendants or enormous rings. Leather shorts surmounted by immense triangular belts, also of leather, yeah both daubed with all the colors of the rainbow, esoteric numbers, human profiles, and inscriptions such as wild fry or rudber bandits around their wrists. They wore enormous leather bracelets. In short, they were a bizarre mixture of virility and feminasy.

Totally, and it doesn't talk about their origins and it definitely doesn't talk about gay fucking. And so Daniel Gearen, who's the French anarchist who wants to go hang out gay folks in Germany, so does. He describes a run in with them in his book called the Brown Plague, which is a doesn't translate well now, but means that it's critical of the rising tide of fashion them. Okay, one Sunday on the outskirts of Berlin, we met, by chance a strange troop on the road. Needless to say, Neither of their short pants, their bere calves, which disappeared under their long wolf vests, the bulky and sundry loads swaying on their backs, nor their enormous hiking boots distinguished them from ordinary vagabonds. But they were very much tuffs. They had the depraved and troubled faces of hoodlums, and the most bizarre coverings on their heads. Black or gray chaplain esque bowlers, old women's hats with the brims turned up in amazon fashion, adorned with ostrich plumes and metals. Proletarian navigator caps decorated with enormous edelwise above the visor. Handkerchiefs. Are scarves and streaming colors tied any which way around the neck. Bare chests bursting out of open skin, vests with broad stripes, arms scored with fantastic or lewde tattoos, ears hung with pendants or enormous rings. Leather shorts surmounted by immense triangular belts, also of leather, yeah both daubed with all the colors of the rainbow, esoteric numbers, human profiles, and inscriptions such as wild fry or rudber bandits around their wrists. They wore enormous leather bracelets. In short, they were a bizarre mixture of virility and feminasy.

Wow, that's a sentence. That is amazing, I know.

Wow, that's a sentence. That is amazing, I know.

And you too can buy all of their costumes from our sponsor, the Pirates Store, which is a nonprofit again because we're going full pure wholesome with the ads here. Yeah, it's a nonprofit store.

And you too can buy all of their costumes from our sponsor, the Pirates Store, which is a nonprofit again because we're going full pure wholesome with the ads here. Yeah, it's a nonprofit store.

Yeah, yeah, no, what you said in blazon. The first thing I was like, they have merch, you know, like you know this is that's a good way to spread the word.

Yeah, yeah, no, what you said in blazon. The first thing I was like, they have merch, you know, like you know this is that's a good way to spread the word.

Yeah, totally, and we too. I actually don't think we have merch at the time of this recording, but we do have advertisers, and some of them are hopefully the Pirate Store.

Yeah, totally, and we too. I actually don't think we have merch at the time of this recording, but we do have advertisers, and some of them are hopefully the Pirate Store.

Yes, we're manifesting.

Yes, we're manifesting.

Yeah, here's some ads.

Yeah, here's some ads.

And we're back.

And we're back.

So the Wild Fry they're self organized, right, They don't have this like overarching structure, but they do sometimes form into these larger coalitions, sometimes not. There's thousands of these bands and they all have fucking weird, fantastic names. Some of them are Black Love, Red Oath, Fear Not Death, Bloody Bones, Dirty Guys, Forest and Field Sleepers, Tortoises, Brandy Frush, Black Flag, Forest pirates or the Northern Lights.

So the Wild Fry they're self organized, right, They don't have this like overarching structure, but they do sometimes form into these larger coalitions, sometimes not. There's thousands of these bands and they all have fucking weird, fantastic names. Some of them are Black Love, Red Oath, Fear Not Death, Bloody Bones, Dirty Guys, Forest and Field Sleepers, Tortoises, Brandy Frush, Black Flag, Forest pirates or the Northern Lights.

Wow. I love that. It's like the Legends of the Hidden Temple, like the team names.

Wow. I love that. It's like the Legends of the Hidden Temple, like the team names.

Yeah, it's like, I'll get to why. It sounds like fantasy at a second. That's one of the things I love about it. Okay. They also they all had their own distinct styles of dress, which and they basically the basic idea was take some idea from fantasy literature and just fucking run with it. Just basically like, try to live like you're in a fantasy novel.

Yeah, it's like, I'll get to why. It sounds like fantasy at a second. That's one of the things I love about it. Okay. They also they all had their own distinct styles of dress, which and they basically the basic idea was take some idea from fantasy literature and just fucking run with it. Just basically like, try to live like you're in a fantasy novel.

Wow. They're like, what's the what's it called? Uh, what's the thing? When you're role playing? It's like LARPing thing, LARPing, LARPing. It's like LARPing. It's like LARPing, yeah, but very creative.

Wow. They're like, what's the what's it called? Uh, what's the thing? When you're role playing? It's like LARPing thing, LARPing, LARPing. It's like LARPing. It's like LARPing, yeah, but very creative.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so they and unlike a lot of the rest of the Vandervogel movement, which was fairly middle class, almost all of these are working class kids, and basically they're like, well, a fantasy life that sounds better than starving, right, And so some of them would dress up as like American frontiersmen, others would dress up like pirates. Some were in stereotypical German garb and like leader hosen and shit. Others were like crusader knights, some were caricatures of indigenous Americans. All of them wore edelwise flowers, the single symbol that like united all of them and gave them the eventual name the Edewis Pirates, and they were into tattoos, including on their genitals. Girls and boys both wore earrings and when the various gang this is one of my favorite details I ran Chris when the various gangs would meet up together. Instead of all wearing they're like different colors from their different clicks, they all wore like top hats and tailcoats and like the finest, like fancy clothes that I'm sure they stole.

And so they and unlike a lot of the rest of the Vandervogel movement, which was fairly middle class, almost all of these are working class kids, and basically they're like, well, a fantasy life that sounds better than starving, right, And so some of them would dress up as like American frontiersmen, others would dress up like pirates. Some were in stereotypical German garb and like leader hosen and shit. Others were like crusader knights, some were caricatures of indigenous Americans. All of them wore edelwise flowers, the single symbol that like united all of them and gave them the eventual name the Edewis Pirates, and they were into tattoos, including on their genitals. Girls and boys both wore earrings and when the various gang this is one of my favorite details I ran Chris when the various gangs would meet up together. Instead of all wearing they're like different colors from their different clicks, they all wore like top hats and tailcoats and like the finest, like fancy clothes that I'm sure they stole.

Wait, I want to look up what an eda wise flower looks like. I want, I want to visualize their merch. Oh wow, that's really it's like a starfish.

Wait, I want to look up what an eda wise flower looks like. I want, I want to visualize their merch. Oh wow, that's really it's like a starfish.

Oh yeah, huh yeah, they're like for anyone's listening, they're they're pretty white flowers with like yellow I don't know anything about biology botany.

Oh yeah, huh yeah, they're like for anyone's listening, they're they're pretty white flowers with like yellow I don't know anything about biology botany.

I've definitely never seen one before. It's very unique looking, but okay.

I've definitely never seen one before. It's very unique looking, but okay.

Cool, I have a visual Okay, the most influential fantasy author for them, which is kind of funny is this guy named Karl May, who is this nineteenth century adventure novel author who's yeah, so he knows where I'm going with this.

Cool, I have a visual Okay, the most influential fantasy author for them, which is kind of funny is this guy named Karl May, who is this nineteenth century adventure novel author who's yeah, so he knows where I'm going with this.

Oh no, oh, no ah.

Oh no, oh, no ah.

Yeah, this is Hitler's favorite author.

Yeah, this is Hitler's favorite author.

Favorite author con man, Karl May. Yeah, yeah, I did.

Favorite author con man, Karl May. Yeah, yeah, I did.

Not know that.

Not know that.

There's a whole behind the Bastard's episode about about Hitler and about how he loves uh Carl May.

There's a whole behind the Bastard's episode about about Hitler and about how he loves uh Carl May.

Wow, Cal, I wonder how Carl felt.

Wow, Cal, I wonder how Carl felt.

Yeah, this is like I mean, you know, Robert describes Karl May as the JK.

Yeah, this is like I mean, you know, Robert describes Karl May as the JK.

Rowling of the day.

Rowling of the day.

Oh.

Oh.

Interesting, That's all I need to know. That's all I need to know.

Interesting, That's all I need to know. That's all I need to know.

But I want to know because I think of like, I'm in a metal band that takes a lot of inspiration from Tolkien, and so are a lot of Nazi metal bands, right, and so I think of it like that, you know, But I haven't read any Karl May. But anyway, May, so these Carl May, Larper's who like rob people in these sex work.

But I want to know because I think of like, I'm in a metal band that takes a lot of inspiration from Tolkien, and so are a lot of Nazi metal bands, right, and so I think of it like that, you know, But I haven't read any Karl May. But anyway, May, so these Carl May, Larper's who like rob people in these sex work.

Hey.

Hey.

A few years ago a modern queer sex worker focused radical publishing project called Underbelly translated some of their songs from German. And so I'm not going to sing it unfortun I'm sorry everyone, ah darn, but my my favorite is just making fun of the Hitler youth for being too masculine and normy. And it's called short hair, big ears. Such short hair, such big ears. That means the Hitler youth must be here, grow long hair, tango nights. There's no Hitler youth in sight. Oh ho oh ho. And one hears the words on every street there's no Hitler youth I'd like to meet? O ho o ho.

A few years ago a modern queer sex worker focused radical publishing project called Underbelly translated some of their songs from German. And so I'm not going to sing it unfortun I'm sorry everyone, ah darn, but my my favorite is just making fun of the Hitler youth for being too masculine and normy. And it's called short hair, big ears. Such short hair, such big ears. That means the Hitler youth must be here, grow long hair, tango nights. There's no Hitler youth in sight. Oh ho oh ho. And one hears the words on every street there's no Hitler youth I'd like to meet? O ho o ho.

Ain't there fucking poets? Come on? That's amazing, amazing.

Ain't there fucking poets? Come on? That's amazing, amazing.

And most of we're like fourteen to eighteen. I'll get into that more, but.

And most of we're like fourteen to eighteen. I'll get into that more, but.

That's the age where you kind of feel like invincible, right, Like that's the damn I would have been all over that.

That's the age where you kind of feel like invincible, right, Like that's the damn I would have been all over that.

Yeah. They made their living as delivery drivers in various unskilled positions, petty crime, non petty crime, sex work, especially at various gay bars throughout the city. Honestly, one of the reasons I love them so much as they just sound like my friends. That's just like a description of what my friends do, and especially when we were younger, and then they would pull all their money and then use it to pay off all their criminal fines that they incur or to support their arrested friends, and they go to juvenile attention and jail and shit constantly, and they break out of juvenile detention constantly. Like the study I read of fifty wild fry who had been held in detention, almost all of them had broken out at least once, and six of them had broken out of detention centers more than twenty times. Individuals only.

Yeah. They made their living as delivery drivers in various unskilled positions, petty crime, non petty crime, sex work, especially at various gay bars throughout the city. Honestly, one of the reasons I love them so much as they just sound like my friends. That's just like a description of what my friends do, and especially when we were younger, and then they would pull all their money and then use it to pay off all their criminal fines that they incur or to support their arrested friends, and they go to juvenile attention and jail and shit constantly, and they break out of juvenile detention constantly. Like the study I read of fifty wild fry who had been held in detention, almost all of them had broken out at least once, and six of them had broken out of detention centers more than twenty times. Individuals only.

That is incredible. Well, yeah, I don't, I know.

That is incredible. Well, yeah, I don't, I know.

And the more they face repression, the more they just resent mainstream society. This is even before the rise of the Nazis. A lot of this stuff. They just resent mainstream society, and they retreat further and further into their fantasy worlds. In the city Colm, where the movement is strongest, they coordinated all their gangs, which they called guilds into.

And the more they face repression, the more they just resent mainstream society. This is even before the rise of the Nazis. A lot of this stuff. They just resent mainstream society, and they retreat further and further into their fantasy worlds. In the city Colm, where the movement is strongest, they coordinated all their gangs, which they called guilds into.

Of course, they're called guilds, yeah, of course.

Of course, they're called guilds, yeah, of course.

Right, yeah. They coordinate them into rings, which are coalitions of each guilt of guilds by district.

Right, yeah. They coordinate them into rings, which are coalitions of each guilt of guilds by district.

And then each.

And then each.

Guild had had a leader called a gang bowl, and the bowls of each guild would together elect the ring bull. And to be a bull, you had to prove that you were strong brave, good at crime, and down to fuck down to.

Guild had had a leader called a gang bowl, and the bowls of each guild would together elect the ring bull. And to be a bull, you had to prove that you were strong brave, good at crime, and down to fuck down to.

Fuck like good a cribing down to fuck.

Fuck like good a cribing down to fuck.

Yes, all kinds of weird ways, and at least one gang, the Eagles of the Mountains. Everyone in it was a bowl because they were like no leaders, I guess, and each bowl had a queen, which I think might have been of either sex, but I'm not entirely sure. All male gangs had a beloved who is expected to be sexually available to everyone in the gang. Since some gangs didn't let girls in, girls formed their own all girl gangs. And then some boys wanted to join the all girl gangs, and so the girls let them in. And I appreciate that because that would have been me. I would have been the boy being like, can I join the girl gang? Though?

Yes, all kinds of weird ways, and at least one gang, the Eagles of the Mountains. Everyone in it was a bowl because they were like no leaders, I guess, and each bowl had a queen, which I think might have been of either sex, but I'm not entirely sure. All male gangs had a beloved who is expected to be sexually available to everyone in the gang. Since some gangs didn't let girls in, girls formed their own all girl gangs. And then some boys wanted to join the all girl gangs, and so the girls let them in. And I appreciate that because that would have been me. I would have been the boy being like, can I join the girl gang? Though?

Yeah, I mean girls are nicer than yeah, yeah, than men. But I also was thinking, like just guilds and all these little factions and stuff. This is like irl world of warcraft, you know what I mean, This is just like factions and battle and like whatever, like wow, yeah, that's art is life and life.

Yeah, I mean girls are nicer than yeah, yeah, than men. But I also was thinking, like just guilds and all these little factions and stuff. This is like irl world of warcraft, you know what I mean, This is just like factions and battle and like whatever, like wow, yeah, that's art is life and life.

Are I suspect these kids weren't bored very often, you know. And Okay, so each new member when they would join was initiated through bizarre and ceremonial baptisms, which were elaborate rituals of violence and sex. They would start off with fist fights and knife fights and then turn into public sexuality, like fucking everyone in the gang, or masturbating in front of everyone, or getting off during sex fast enough, like literally someone's standing there with a stop watch and you're like, wow, get off fast enough.

Are I suspect these kids weren't bored very often, you know. And Okay, so each new member when they would join was initiated through bizarre and ceremonial baptisms, which were elaborate rituals of violence and sex. They would start off with fist fights and knife fights and then turn into public sexuality, like fucking everyone in the gang, or masturbating in front of everyone, or getting off during sex fast enough, like literally someone's standing there with a stop watch and you're like, wow, get off fast enough.

So it's like hazing, but.

So it's like hazing, but.

For badass yeah, yeah, totally, it's like way more like the hat.

For badass yeah, yeah, totally, it's like way more like the hat.

You're cool enough to be cool.

You're cool enough to be cool.

Yeah, And it's hard for me to imagine the frat where the hazing iss. Now you've got to fuck all of us, but you know whatever, also a mixed gender frat m hm. And they would all descend into drunken orgies every time someone knew was baptized, of course, And there's actually there's I should have saved them in a file to make them easily available, but there's actually photos of some of these. Some of the like weird like and it's like people dressed like pirates with knives and all kinds of weird shit. And they would They lived in the forests and in squats in the cities. They would like each each crew would have it. Each each guild would have its own squat basically addicts or cellars or un used storage rooms, and they would put a single bed in the middle and they called it the fucking sofa, and that was like the only sleeping space. I mean, I'm sure they slept on floor and they would just like this.

Yeah, And it's hard for me to imagine the frat where the hazing iss. Now you've got to fuck all of us, but you know whatever, also a mixed gender frat m hm. And they would all descend into drunken orgies every time someone knew was baptized, of course, And there's actually there's I should have saved them in a file to make them easily available, but there's actually photos of some of these. Some of the like weird like and it's like people dressed like pirates with knives and all kinds of weird shit. And they would They lived in the forests and in squats in the cities. They would like each each crew would have it. Each each guild would have its own squat basically addicts or cellars or un used storage rooms, and they would put a single bed in the middle and they called it the fucking sofa, and that was like the only sleeping space. I mean, I'm sure they slept on floor and they would just like this.

I would not if I wasn't on this podcast, I wouldn't think this was true.

I would not if I wasn't on this podcast, I wouldn't think this was true.

No, I know and like and so so I'll say that my main source of this is Daniel Gern's account of talking to of the more like crime sex stuff is talking to a sociologist a social worker sorry at the time, who did a study on these people, and that study is replicated in a book, The Brown Plague. But yeah, because a lot of the later stuff that we hear about edawisepirates just doesn't talk about their drunken orgies at all, but.

No, I know and like and so so I'll say that my main source of this is Daniel Gern's account of talking to of the more like crime sex stuff is talking to a sociologist a social worker sorry at the time, who did a study on these people, and that study is replicated in a book, The Brown Plague. But yeah, because a lot of the later stuff that we hear about edawisepirates just doesn't talk about their drunken orgies at all, but.

Stuff gets erased all the time, right, like as we've learned from this podcast and just life.

Stuff gets erased all the time, right, like as we've learned from this podcast and just life.

Yeah, yeah, totally, okay. So they would like, like one account I was reading, they like they would steal and sell cars and then they would like in their stolen car they would like drive around and like I don't remember exactly, was like the guy who steals the car. He's like known, is like a car guy that's like his name or whatever, you know. And then they like go around and rip off payphones. I didn't even know they had payphones back then, but they would like go and like rip off payphones and then try and get all the money out and that they couldn't throw them in the river or whatever. And they would fence all their stolen goods through bartenders in exchange for alcohol. And this gets and this leads a lot of them, a lot of them end up like in debt to these bartenders. And then like when they age out of the wild fry, they just enter like a more mainstream life of crime for better or worse.

Yeah, yeah, totally, okay. So they would like, like one account I was reading, they like they would steal and sell cars and then they would like in their stolen car they would like drive around and like I don't remember exactly, was like the guy who steals the car. He's like known, is like a car guy that's like his name or whatever, you know. And then they like go around and rip off payphones. I didn't even know they had payphones back then, but they would like go and like rip off payphones and then try and get all the money out and that they couldn't throw them in the river or whatever. And they would fence all their stolen goods through bartenders in exchange for alcohol. And this gets and this leads a lot of them, a lot of them end up like in debt to these bartenders. And then like when they age out of the wild fry, they just enter like a more mainstream life of crime for better or worse.

Oh, I didn't even consider that they would age out. Actually, now that you say that out loud, I know. It's like, you can't stay a wild fry if you're not a small fry. You have to be by yourself committing crime all of a sudden. I don't know. Yeah, that's not fair.

Oh, I didn't even consider that they would age out. Actually, now that you say that out loud, I know. It's like, you can't stay a wild fry if you're not a small fry. You have to be by yourself committing crime all of a sudden. I don't know. Yeah, that's not fair.

I know, I know. And it's like because one of the things that this reminds me so much of when I was like a teenage squatter, but I did most of that. One was like nineteen and twenty, and so I'm a little bit like, oh, I would have been too old to be you know.

I know, I know. And it's like because one of the things that this reminds me so much of when I was like a teenage squatter, but I did most of that. One was like nineteen and twenty, and so I'm a little bit like, oh, I would have been too old to be you know.

Yeah, and that's fucked up, that's not fair. Yeah, it's like very Peter Panny Lost Boys about them, you know what.

Yeah, and that's fucked up, that's not fair. Yeah, it's like very Peter Panny Lost Boys about them, you know what.

I mean, totally Yeah, it is just Peter Pan's army. Yeah, yeah, Okay. So the Nazis come to power and they refuse to disband, and in a lot of cities they're powerful enough that they completely just challenge the hegemony of the Hitler youth, and in some cities they outnumber the Hitler youth. And one of the slogans that they had at the time was eternal war against the Hitler Youth. Yes, yes, And so they did resistance in a lot of ways, right like just by existing they and continuing to like hiking camp and wander their resisting Nazi era travel restrictions. But they they weren't content with only doing that, and so it wasn't long before they go from like street fights with the Nazi the Hitler youth to distributing propaganda, like when the Allies would drop leaflets on the city. The wild fry would run around and like stick the leaflets through people's doors and shit. They help people desert from the Nazi army. They would rob Nazi warehouses and you know, eventually started like killing Nazis who needed a good killing. Actually, what you're talking about, like aging out. I think that I think that the war like fucks up. The best I can tell, the war like fucks up there, you know, sort of like their specific organizational structure, it becomes a lot looser. And so some of the people that you know who get hanged and stuff for this activity are like formal at a wise pirates and shit like that, right, And so they're still hanging out with like sixteen year olds doing all these crimes together, and a lot of them get caught and get sent to concentration camps. On November tenth, nineteen forty four, thirteen of them or thirteen people, six of them who are teenagers and some of them are formal otawise pirates get executed without trial and coal and I believe for theft, murder and planning to blow up at Gestapo headquarters. This is the like most known thing that they that they were doing.

I mean, totally Yeah, it is just Peter Pan's army. Yeah, yeah, Okay. So the Nazis come to power and they refuse to disband, and in a lot of cities they're powerful enough that they completely just challenge the hegemony of the Hitler youth, and in some cities they outnumber the Hitler youth. And one of the slogans that they had at the time was eternal war against the Hitler Youth. Yes, yes, And so they did resistance in a lot of ways, right like just by existing they and continuing to like hiking camp and wander their resisting Nazi era travel restrictions. But they they weren't content with only doing that, and so it wasn't long before they go from like street fights with the Nazi the Hitler youth to distributing propaganda, like when the Allies would drop leaflets on the city. The wild fry would run around and like stick the leaflets through people's doors and shit. They help people desert from the Nazi army. They would rob Nazi warehouses and you know, eventually started like killing Nazis who needed a good killing. Actually, what you're talking about, like aging out. I think that I think that the war like fucks up. The best I can tell, the war like fucks up there, you know, sort of like their specific organizational structure, it becomes a lot looser. And so some of the people that you know who get hanged and stuff for this activity are like formal at a wise pirates and shit like that, right, And so they're still hanging out with like sixteen year olds doing all these crimes together, and a lot of them get caught and get sent to concentration camps. On November tenth, nineteen forty four, thirteen of them or thirteen people, six of them who are teenagers and some of them are formal otawise pirates get executed without trial and coal and I believe for theft, murder and planning to blow up at Gestapo headquarters. This is the like most known thing that they that they were doing.

I forgive me if you've mentioned this. Yeah, like demographically, what are most of them? Are they like mixed like ethnicity wise?

I forgive me if you've mentioned this. Yeah, like demographically, what are most of them? Are they like mixed like ethnicity wise?

Oh okay, they do so they are both Aryan and Jewish, okay, or at least they specifically refuse to disallow Jews. I could not tell you what percent of the movement was Jewish. Probably, I don't know. I know that historically they allowed in uh. And that was like a thing that distinguished them from a lot of it is that they were like what fuck all.

Oh okay, they do so they are both Aryan and Jewish, okay, or at least they specifically refuse to disallow Jews. I could not tell you what percent of the movement was Jewish. Probably, I don't know. I know that historically they allowed in uh. And that was like a thing that distinguished them from a lot of it is that they were like what fuck all.

That It was like kind of started I would assume by like Aryan people.

That It was like kind of started I would assume by like Aryan people.

But that were good probably, But I couldn't tell you. I couldn't tell you about Jewish participation in the beginning.

But that were good probably, But I couldn't tell you. I couldn't tell you about Jewish participation in the beginning.

I was just trying to imagine them forever. Reason, when I imagine something badass and doing stuff, they're not white, so I have to rearrange.

I was just trying to imagine them forever. Reason, when I imagine something badass and doing stuff, they're not white, so I have to rearrange.

Oh yeah, totally. Yeah, well, considering like the overwhelming majority of Germans at this point are not like really doing their best, you know. Yeah, so like I.

Oh yeah, totally. Yeah, well, considering like the overwhelming majority of Germans at this point are not like really doing their best, you know. Yeah, so like I.

See that my prejudice now, I'm just gonna.

See that my prejudice now, I'm just gonna.

I think that's fair. Yeah yeah, and so so plenty of histories. So they run into this problem where they're not seen as political, which in a sense, it's true right, because they were not friends with polite society, any polite society. There were criminals under the Weimar Republic, there were criminals under the Nazis, and they continued to be criminals when the Allies liberated the country. The wild fry and Soviet controlled areas were treated really harshly, and many of them were sentenced to twenty five years in prison. And because they're working class criminals, they were never acknowledged their anti fascist work until twenty eleven when and the families of the Edewis pirates who were killed never received like reparations from the German state, unlike other partisans. And the last known surviving Edelwise pirate was a woman named Gertrude Koch Coach. I don't know who died in twenty sixteen at the age of ninety two.

I think that's fair. Yeah yeah, and so so plenty of histories. So they run into this problem where they're not seen as political, which in a sense, it's true right, because they were not friends with polite society, any polite society. There were criminals under the Weimar Republic, there were criminals under the Nazis, and they continued to be criminals when the Allies liberated the country. The wild fry and Soviet controlled areas were treated really harshly, and many of them were sentenced to twenty five years in prison. And because they're working class criminals, they were never acknowledged their anti fascist work until twenty eleven when and the families of the Edewis pirates who were killed never received like reparations from the German state, unlike other partisans. And the last known surviving Edelwise pirate was a woman named Gertrude Koch Coach. I don't know who died in twenty sixteen at the age of ninety two.

Well it's a long life.

Well it's a long life.

Yeah, you know who else survives? The people who drank tap water and eat potatoes. The sponsors of this show you will live forever. And this is especially funny because now I've been learning about the more about potatoes because I listened to buying the bastards, which I feel terrible to.

Yeah, you know who else survives? The people who drank tap water and eat potatoes. The sponsors of this show you will live forever. And this is especially funny because now I've been learning about the more about potatoes because I listened to buying the bastards, which I feel terrible to.

Admit on this show not how could you?

Admit on this show not how could you?

I know? And I'm learning cool people.

I know? And I'm learning cool people.

Only what a hack podcast?

Only what a hack podcast?

I wonder who produces that show?

I wonder who produces that show?

Yeah, loser.

Yeah, loser.

But anyway, here's some ads for tap water potatoes and whatever else gets mixed in there. And we are back and we are talking about pirates.

But anyway, here's some ads for tap water potatoes and whatever else gets mixed in there. And we are back and we are talking about pirates.

Yes, when you first started with the Pirates, I don't I've never heard of the Edays Pirates, but I was curious what definition of pirate you were going to use, like the actual like people that were pirates on you know what I mean, because yeah, yeah, exactly or like just but it's just really funny that there's like dressed like pirates. Yeah, they do pyrany thing. Yeah, it's all like they're I don't know, it's just kind of funny to see it all come together totally imagination.

Yes, when you first started with the Pirates, I don't I've never heard of the Edays Pirates, but I was curious what definition of pirate you were going to use, like the actual like people that were pirates on you know what I mean, because yeah, yeah, exactly or like just but it's just really funny that there's like dressed like pirates. Yeah, they do pyrany thing. Yeah, it's all like they're I don't know, it's just kind of funny to see it all come together totally imagination.

Yeah yeah, I mean they lived really similar lives to like Golden Age pirates, but they like were doing it yeah in costume, you know, yeah, fucking rules honestly, Like.

Yeah yeah, I mean they lived really similar lives to like Golden Age pirates, but they like were doing it yeah in costume, you know, yeah, fucking rules honestly, Like.

It's it's it's yeah, it's like especially at the time, it's like if the world is going to shit, just you live once, you know, like that's the Yeah, I don't know, it's it's I like the uninhibited nature of their life.

It's it's it's yeah, it's like especially at the time, it's like if the world is going to shit, just you live once, you know, like that's the Yeah, I don't know, it's it's I like the uninhibited nature of their life.

Yeah I do too, jesus. Yeah. And then one of the things I like about them is like it doesn't seem like it was like a gay culture as in, like some of them are gay, and some of them are heterosexual, and some of them are by it was just fucking weird. Like I don't think any of them knew their sexuality. Some of them probably cared and some of them probably didn't.

Yeah I do too, jesus. Yeah. And then one of the things I like about them is like it doesn't seem like it was like a gay culture as in, like some of them are gay, and some of them are heterosexual, and some of them are by it was just fucking weird. Like I don't think any of them knew their sexuality. Some of them probably cared and some of them probably didn't.

And like, yeah, they definitely weirdos unite, right, sorry, yeah, yeah, no, no, no, no, I mean it's like weirdos all unite. Right. So it's like when you're in high school, the outcast are altogether, whether they're like people of color or gay or whatever. Like that's what happened to in my experience anyway. Yeah, we're like when you're yeah, if you're what's the word marginalized, marginalized exactly, if you're marginalized and you're fucking weird, you will unite because you want a weird community and weird, honestly, I think is a great thing. You should be weird being a normy boring you know, so stay weird.

And like, yeah, they definitely weirdos unite, right, sorry, yeah, yeah, no, no, no, no, I mean it's like weirdos all unite. Right. So it's like when you're in high school, the outcast are altogether, whether they're like people of color or gay or whatever. Like that's what happened to in my experience anyway. Yeah, we're like when you're yeah, if you're what's the word marginalized, marginalized exactly, if you're marginalized and you're fucking weird, you will unite because you want a weird community and weird, honestly, I think is a great thing. You should be weird being a normy boring you know, so stay weird.

Hell yeah totally. And then okay, so these aren't the only queers fighting the Nazis within Germany. Far from it. I'm going to tell you about some more of them. There's a gad Beck who is a gay, part Jewish Berliner who in nineteen forty two he borrows a Hitler youth uniform and he marches into the pre deportation camp where his lover Manfred is being detained. So he shows up in his uniform and he goes to the commanding officer and he's like, oh, I need to borrow this guy from on a construction project. And so the request is granted and the you know, and he starts out the camp with with his lover Manfred. But then Manfred stops and he says, I can't leave my family basically, and he goes back into the back into the camp. He dies, him and his family die, but he basically said, you know, if I will never be free if I'm not free with my family. But so then gad Beck spends the next three years helping Jews escape before he gets betrayed by a fucking a Jewish spy for the Gestapo and he gets arrested, but he survives the war. So this is gonna be another one of those like who lives, who dies?