Club Shay ShaySteve Stoute and Shannon Sharpe continue on by diving into why artists like Taylor Swift should hold on to their masters rather than sell them for massive payouts. Steve recounts the hilarious story of Kanye West's unexpected freestyle at Steve’s wedding, which may have been a precursor to what happened at the 2009 VMAs. Shannon and Steve explore the business side of the NFL’s partnership with Apple and the Super Bowl Halftime Show, Steve's groundbreaking triumphs with AT&T and a hard-of-hearing football team, and break down the transformative power of a strategic rebrand. From discussing the significance of shared values in brand-influencer partnerships to unraveling the cultural tapestry of Giannis Antetokounmpo's film, the episode weaves together threads of music, sports, and business. Steve's Mount Rushmore of hip-hop, Shannon's heartfelt tribute to LL Cool J, and reflections on the rise of hip-hop as a global phenomenon add layers of depth to this entertaining and enlightening conversation. As Steve Stoute seamlessly transitions from the music industry to broader business landscapes, the episode serves as a masterclass in embracing evolution while keeping the essence of all things legendary intact. Don't miss out on the laughter, insights, and legendary tales shared in this Club Shay Shay rendezvous with the one and only Steve Stoute. #Volume
Thank you for what you're coming back. Part two is underway.
The seeming of the new thing now is people seem to be unloading their catalogs. Taylor Swift did something very unique. She released her entire catalog and now she got new masters. And the record companies are trying to say now.
They're training to change agreements. Yeah. Yeah. There's two types of catalogs you can sell.
One is your publishing catalog, which is your share of writing, right, which are most artists can sell their version their portion of writing.
Assault.
Then there's another side of the catalog, which is the master side.
Most artists don't own that to sell. They don't own that to see.
Tailor didn't own that to sell, right, Okay, that's the reason why she was mad because somebody they sold it to.
Somebody else and she wouldn't chance.
Well that's and and I'm gonna tell you something about that that nobody talked about. Her father owned piece of that company, So I don't know why her father didn't tell her her father owned piece of the company that sold it. So I don't know how she didn't know any of that, to be frank with you, and I got no horse in this race. It was just to me, it was just very odd that the beef was so loud that they sold that. Nobody ever told her about it, And I'm thinking your father benefited from the sellers number one. Number two, most artists don't have that, which is the reason why I fight for that about ownership of masters, because that's the thing that has all of the long term value that you could, you know, your family could benefit from for years to come, which is the reason why you should maintain and own your master rights. The multiples that are being paid for these things are really high, very very high, and for those who can benefit from it, it's great, which is the reason why again.
The artist should hold it.
To me, it's one of those things that I personally, if I was an artist, I wouldn't sell it. If I owned my catalog. You can get a loan against it, right bar against it. Whatever, it's it's very valuable. You can license it, but I wouldn't sell it. It's because what's happening is as technology changes, it keeps.
Unlocking new value.
So it was worth one thing then when there was vinyl, and then all of a sudden when CDs came, it became exponentially more valuable because then everybody started rebuying it again. Right, all of a sudden, you started buying Bob Marley's Greatest hits or you know whoever, Barry White's greatest hits.
So you name the act that you like.
Every time new technology comes out, the catalog becomes much more valuable again because people are, you know, reformatting the music in which they have it on or buying that new format.
So it's very hard.
The guy who's buying it is betting that the that the new format change is going to only lead to more value over time.
The person selling it thinking it's not. If you can afford to.
Get a loan against it or license it, you can still get some money without necessarily selling it again, That's what I would do, but with the kids to own it. If you don't own it, you're not even in this conversation. You can sit here and ask artists what do you feel about selling catalog and they'll sit there and tell you, I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't have any catalog to sell, which is again fucked up?
Is it?
Truth? At your wedding, Kanye took the mic from Maxwell Man. How do you know this, man, that happened for real? Man? Shut up? Who told you that the night has a thousand eyes? Almost?
Not? No, man, who told you this? I'm just asked, Steve. I'm just asking the question. I just want to know. I think my audience want to know. Maxwell was performing, Kanye got up there and started freestyling.
Yes or no? That happening.
That's so wild that you know that? Man, I'm telling you Anthony, who would tell you that?
Yes, Kanye grabbed the mic and started freestyling, and it was.
Craziness. That's all I can say. It was crazy. So what is about wedding? Your wedding night? So what are you thinking?
You got Max?
Well, he's saying this woman's work silently fortunate, fortunate, Yeah, Urban hanksweet the whole album. Yes, you help the NFL secure two hundred fifty million dollars deal with Apple. How is Steve Stout able to walk in any building, get a meeting and can close a deal?
Man? You could? Man, you could? Hey, you can have a chicken to be security at the hen How How.
I'm good man, I'm good at what I do. Man, I see it. It's the it's the halftime show. It's it's the NFL halftime show. It's all about music. Why wouldn't Apple Music have that? Why wouldn't a music company be there? Pepsi's fine and Bridgestone before Pepsi, But like, why is it a tire company and Pepsi? Why wouldn't it be Apple Music? I mean, why isn't that obvious to everybody?
I don't even understand what The only thing genius about that is that nobody else seen it, but it was obvious. So being able to speak to you know, EDDIEQ and the guys over at Apple, from Tim Cook to Eddie Q and Oliver, those guys, they love the idea, and the NFL, of course, would prefer to.
Be in business with a company like Apple. Who doesn't want to be in business with Apple Apple Music? And we did that deal and it was you know, Rihanna, year one, and you know, we know it's usher this year.
I'm sure you're going to be there.
You're damn right you be there, So you know, it's fantastic.
I love doing deals and doing business that makes significant impact. And I love the idea more than I care about my own personal what I personally stand the game seriously.
It's like.
Bono said something to me a long time ago. You can get anything done as long as you're willing to not take credit. Wow, the idea, As long as you remove who gets credit for it, then the politics around what makes a great idea come together become much easier to see.
Yeah, And that was one of those types of things.
I think, get in deep enough to get it done, and then I got out of it once I knew we had a deal, but I didn't run around talking about I did this deal and for what what you see where the prices are going for these commercials.
Seven eight million dollars for thirty second spots.
Yeah, where we steve, where we're headed. We had a team fifteen million dollars for a thirty four to thirty second spot. Yeah. You see where these teams are valued. Yeah, right, where these teams are valued. The fact of the matter is, Man, the top one hundred shows on television, ninety of them in the NFL advance.
Yeah.
And the more it becomes rare to get that level of audience around something, the more they can charge because there's nothing else that get us that level of attention. Yeah, at one period of time, if you break it down. It's probably the best money spent.
Yeah, you got one hundred million, You got one hundred million people watching for three hours?
How about this? And oddly enough wanting to see the commercials.
That one event is the only event where people go, I can't wait to see the commercial.
There's nothing else.
Every every other thing you're trying to skip the commercial, get around the commercial. Which is the perfect time to use the bathroom, not the end, not the super Bowl.
That's when people want to watch commercials.
So e seven eight million dollars whatever, and and and I think that, I think the NBA Finals and NBA playoffs people want to watch these things. Man, I would I would charge more. It's the only game in town. It's the only thing live sports dominate television. Yes, they can charge whatever they want. And it's worth it. I mean it's worth it because the the attention that you get is very hard to cobble.
Putting together a bunch of other different media, it's just very difficult to get. Have you ever com created a Super Bowl commercial? Is that something you liked it?
Hell?
Yeah, man, I did it super Bowl commercials so long ago. And the ship blew up and I didn't even realize how big it was. Terry Tate office linebacker. Yeah yeah, hell yeah.
Do you remember that he just started tackling people in I did that for Reebok.
Man, I did that for Reebok. This guy was running around with a film of this guy tackling people in the office.
Uh.
He's a famous director now, ross In Thurber, and he had this young guy showing this film. I've seen it and we're represented Rebok. We pitched it to Reebok and literally was a Rebok dot com commercial. Go to reebok dot com and that thing went crazy. Terry Tate office linebacker, I remember that. Where the agency, the Creative Solutions Company h AS I like to call us because that's what we do. We solve bigger problems for Uh. The NBA has been a client of ours for many years. State Farm, all those State Farm commercials that you know, Aaron Rodgers and Chris On, Cliff Paul like, we've done all that work for years and now AT and T is one of our clients, has been our clients for five years.
But I want to talk to you about because we talk about special. What makes this helm special? Yeah? What we did here man, which I'm very proud of.
Is a lot of times people talk about advertising and it's like selling stuff, But I like to really think about how do you use the power of advertising to tell a story or solve problems. And we found out about the story about Galley Debt, which.
Is a school for death or hard hear hearing impaired. There was a time where hearing appeared players actually made it to the pros. There were few of them made it to the pros. But as technology.
When my second year Kenny Walker went to the University of Nebraska, he was hearing the paired, So then perfect.
So now what happens is as you start putting in technology and the helmets, now you can call audibles and if you're playing quarterback or lineback, you can't even compete. If you're hearing a paid you can't. So we've seen this problem. We took it to the AT and T and the great team over there. They actually wanted to see how can we help solve this problem using five G technology. Okay, so what we did was we worked on this for three years. Share this helmet has a special chip here, and this chip allows players who are harder hearing to actually see the play versus just hearing right right. So the coach takes this and literally, I can put the play in here flex.
Where play action Pittsburgh, right, So that's the play.
The coach calls and I can just put in the audible right here, and the audible comes up on this visual so the player gets to see this. This is a game change. We put this on these players. It changed their lives. Man, This player saying I got the speed, I got the vision, I got the ice, I got everything.
As a professional lefting, I just can't hear. I'm hearing impaired. So they're using this. They're using this right now, man, they're using this right now.
It's one of the most things I'm most proud of that we did that, and we're changing people's lives. So you know when I say that we are a creative solutions company that's not advertising, man, that's coming up with new ideas that's going to help change people's lives.
It's much bigger than advertised. Right. So you're the consultant for the next You did some work for to make the next.
Cool, Well move the next from from Newark to Brooklyn, right, So we did that very early. I'm also the we also represent the Big Twelve, yes, yeah, to make them cool. Yeah, well the Big Twelve. What's going on in college sports is so crazy now because the game the rules have changed, bro, I mean between nil deals, between the relocation of the relocations of every team. It used to be regional, right, yes, like you if you play for Big East and you were in the Big East store, man, you could go from there and be there. The regions don't even matter a lot of it. I still think I have a problem because of what it does to the student athlete. The fact that you got to travel across the country. How could you even study? How could you actually get your schooling together? If you're playing different.
Time zones like us USC and UCLA coming to the big team.
Yeah, how yeah that's a lot, right.
But anyhow, between nil deals and the fact that these teams are changing conferences so fast, recruiting materials around recruiting, how you market your teams, how you market your team and your program changes dramatically.
Look, man, we at the Big Twelve.
We we just got Colorado, right, you want to have Colorado, and I'm sure everybody was pitching Colorado, the Ady and Colorado.
To get them.
You know, we put together the materials to help make them more, make them very successful. And I'm you know, I work with brett Or Mark who the commission of the Big Twelve. I worked with him when he was at the Brooklyn Nets when we moved him from Brooklyn from Newark, New Jersey to Brooklyn, and I work with him now for the Big Twelve. And love working with Jim Dolan, very very misunderstood man, talented as hell, loyal as hell.
How do you go about rebranding?
Because the rebrand something people have an idea or perception of what it is.
How do you change that perception. There's a lot of different things that go into it. How it sounds, you know, the sonics of the brand. Like you know when we did Unloving It for McDonald's. You remember those butuolso remember.
Right?
So sonically those are branding elements that you have to deal with. The texture and tone when you sometimes you will watch a TV commercial and because it has a white background already, you kind of know what it is before it comes on.
There's certain colors that you can tell.
Colors play a very important role in so sometimes when you're rebranding, you play with colors you play with sounds. It's not just casting like, oh, let's just use this famous person, unless you know, put two white guys and one black guy and make it different than it like things like that. It's really understanding the totality of what leaves an impression with somebody, breaking that down and figuring out what aspects of that story that you're going to pull together in order to retell that story.
It's a crass, it's very it's it's craftsmanship.
And you know, most people unfortunately think that just throw a famous person against this and close your eyes and they'll fix.
It some hope. Yeah.
You know a lot of times putting famous people against brands, two things happen.
You don't believe it.
Right, So there's a celebrity and the brand have shared values, shared values, what do we have in comments so that when people see us together they go, oh, that makes perfect sense because that's how they rock.
Right.
So that's successful partnerships around your values or you put them together and they're just expensive ideas that nobody ever believes. Like you put I used to always use like you know, back in the days, like who believed that Tagger Woods drove a buick?
You know, like how do we gonna get how we gonna get this off? Like how were we gonna figure this one out?
You know?
And so there's there's a lot of bad ideas like that right now to this verrea where you look at it and you're like, are you serious. The other thing I tell a lot of you know, guys in the music business specifically because all us brand money is coming at them, is you gotta be careful who you choose as a partner, because when they sign the deal, it's one thing. You get a check, you feel good. But when they fire you for lyrics or fire you from behavior that you was actually doing when they hired you. Correct, but it's really loud now because getting fired is a loud thing. You famous you fired, You got to let go be careful about those people, man. Not every check is a good check, right, And make sure you are going into a partnership with somebody because these brands, I will tell you, man, they will sign you and as soon as they feel any temperature, they cut bait. And they will cut bait and it will be loud and you will look as if you did something that they were completely unaware of, which is the exact same thing that made you famous is why they got in business with you.
Choosing a brand partner is almost as important as choosing a life partner.
Oh yeah, because the brand partner can't affect your reputation when they let you go or they say something about you because they parted ways with you. And however, you know eloquently they decide to say that you guys parted ways, there's a stinch on your name is if you're not, because what do you think the other brands do? Don't mess with that person, right right? As a result of that, so again that becomes contentious. So you have to be very careful who you partner with because some of them they're not in it for the partnership. They're just in it for the quick burn of fame. How many followers you got, how many likes you got?
This? That?
And the third day that they're not really invested in you. They don't give a shit about you. They care about that. And as soon as that gets a little bit tainted, a little bit uneasy because you said a word that they didn't know, well, somebody didn't.
Those are in your lyrics already, man.
Right, you know, so I always give that advice and anybody watching this as a musician or looking or influencer, make sure you pick your partners correctly.
Make sure they're really your partners. How do you strike the how do you strike a balance? Because you said you left the music injury in industry to get into advertising, So how do you strike the balance between athlete and brand? Because you have a vested interest on both sides because a lot of these athletes you have a relationship with, and obviously a lot of these brands you have a relationship with, and you want to continue faster that on both sides.
Because there's because there is there actually is a true sweet spot between athletes and brands.
There is a great relationship.
If you you look at TV, you see some of these commercials and just like, what about this story that they're telling. It's actually gonna help make this athlete look aspirational, important, like they're doing something that really matters. Sometimes they actually use the athlete and make them look like dumb jocks. Sad enough to say, they make them look like that versus somebody who you should look at as a rare, unique, special talented individual who's more than an athlete. Okay, to quote Lebron and what they do it to bring up like you. But if you work with people who are not willing to get deeper past the surface to help tell those stories, then you're gonna end up with commercials where the athlete says two words are trying not to let them talk too much and just put everything around them and this cut around them.
That's not that's not buzz. They're not making that much money off of that anyway. Why are you even doing it?
Right? You got ten million dollars, fifteen million dollars twenty million dollar guaranteed contracts. They're not paying you that much money to do to commercial So only do it if it's doing something to help manage up your image. And you asked, You asked Chris Paul, you asked Lebron, you axed Jason Tatum.
You asked anybody who works with me.
There's nothing that I do unless I could look at it and go did we do something to elevate your image? Did we do something to tell a story that you always wanted to tell? But this is the greatest outlet to tell that story. If we're not doing that, we're not doing no business. That's that's I don't work that way.
I'm looking at some of the athletes that you work with and entertainers Yianni's Little Baby, Ja Morant, Clay meg.
Gianni's man Giannis.
We told the story, and we shold a film going back Nope, when he talked really intimately about the fact.
That he'd go to Greece Greek because he's Greek. He'd go to Greece, go home, and they'd look at him like he was a black guy. So there was a certain level of race tension around that racist tent. And then he'd be in Africa and they looked at him like he was white guy from Greece, and how he had to live within the balance of that and the power he found in growing up in those two worlds.
We told a beautiful story about that with his partners at WhatsApp.
WhatsApp is the global communications company and very few artists athletes are as global as yo, honest, and we told that story through that. Lens Man, I mean, that's the kind of stuff I love doing. You shouldn't have to worry when you buy tickets to your next big event. Game time is the fast and easy way to buy tickets for all your sports, music, comedy and theater events near you with killer last minute deals, all them prices, views from your seat, and the best price guaranteed. Game Time takes the guesswork out of buying tickets. Game Time is the ticket app to give you complete peace of mind with your purchase. See the view from your seat before you buy, so you know exactly what to expect when you arrive. All them prices, show you the total upfront so you know exactly what you're getting a great deal before you check out. Buy tickets in two seconds with two taps. Take the guests work out of buying tickets with game Time. Download the game Time app, create an account. Use the code shay shape for twenty dollars off your first purchase. Terms apply again. Create an app. Redeem the code shay shape for twenty dollars off. Download game Time Today Last minute tickets lowers price guaranteed.
I watched you for the last two and a half years. I'll just watch on the FS one show. How long you've been on that show for a year? I was on that show for seven years. Yeah, we came in together, skip started. We started the show in twenty sixteen. It was a great run. I watched you on the show, and I watched you get better over time, and when you started getting comfortable and bringing in your all of your natural self to it at the table, it was.
A game changer. Yeah, it was a game changer.
Well, that's the thing when you were sneaking in those lines with the the brag and miles and all that, and then social media started to pick it up. Yeah, and you know the right delicate balance, which is very hard. The producer Craig Barry is a friend of mine who produces Inside the NBA, Inside that show.
Yeah, and it's that's the magic.
How do you get that talk off while still being an expert at the core thing.
Which is sports? Correct? Correct? Did you think that fifty years what it started? Fifty years ago? Hip hop?
And you said it was in his empasy when when all was doing with you know, you could go to the mall and you could see Al and you could see run demc hanging out in the mall and you could see the battles.
Did you think it would be what it is today?
I mean, you're a great born think no, no, no, no, no, not I knew what I I never thought the music would be this big. I knew that the other things around it would be big, the clothing, the style.
I never thought the music.
I never thought at any point in time it was going to be the number one music in the world.
I didn't think that.
I remember I used to go to France. If you do your thing out there, you have no idea what happened. So I went to can and I seen graffiti and I was like, when I see graffiti.
Every time I see graffiti, it makes me think the culture has touched this place.
I get comfortable around graffiti because I know as people who are trying to say something and they're looking for a candambas to say it.
I love that. I love that. I've always loved that. You say alf from Queens. I mean we go LLL with the first.
I mean the guy that now what you like when you get man L was there, you know, look I love with al and Kumo d Battle.
I grew up on how old are you? Fifty five? Fifty three?
All right, so we used to go but rules, yeah, how are you getting the music? I grew up about sixty five miles from Savannah, and they would come to the civic center. Uh coumo d uh the Fat Boys, run DMC, Houdini you went, of course, yes, yes, because L L L and I about the same age.
Yeah, And so.
Anytime that they were coming to Savannah, we were there and they had a show. They had Houdini, they had LLL, they had run DMC. I mean it's like seven groups and it was unbelievable.
And everybody knew all the words, every last one of them.
Hello cool J was A was A was A. I mean it is a star. I mean he I don't think you get the credit he deserved though.
Wow, he's a Yeah.
I know I'm talking about the commercial, but I'm saying, when you talk about Gray rappers, don't nobody mentioned al.
You know what? L Yeah? He is funny man? Would he be in sports? I have an argument all the time. This is.
Everybody like there's a certain style that people appreciate more so they don't give a different version of that approach the same amount of credits. So oh, was he as great as a lyricist as rock him or Kin?
No?
No, was he a better total package? Absolutely? Yet why he still has a career to this day. He made bad albums, he made bad albums, he made really good albums, then he'd made batter He used to go through this pattern where he would experiment and make bad albums. He'd probably tell you you that what was considered a quote unquote bad album was learnings for the album that came after that that was great, but he was willing to take chances to make big records as a result of it. So he doesn't get the credit for that. But a lot of the guys that do get a lot of credit, you realize had really short careers. Yeah, really short careers. Yeah in sports, I use this analogy, like, you know, everybody thinks, you know Mike Tyson is I mean, obviously Mike Tyson is a larger than life figure. Mike Tyson was probably great for four years, yes, yes, yes, four you know what I'm saying. Four where you couldn't even touch them, you know, and then after that he became whatever affected his life, right, it all changed, trick. You know a lot of these guys who get more credit than Loco Jays rappers really get short career that if you think about it, Big and Tupac short careers.
What was twopac? Five years big and five years?
If that that's listen, man, you ain't gotta tell me. That's why there should be statues of z for sure, these guys who endured the entire they were there.
Before and after.
Yes, you know, yes, to go to go through the gauntlet of what it was, whether it's East coast, West coast of beef, or drugs or drug dealers or just whatever the issues were that comes with being a young man in your twenties and millions of dollars in attention, media attention, global attention.
You know, people want to kill you whatever it may be. To avoid all of that, to get to the other side, they should have a monument. Well, I'll tell you what.
Since you're you're close to my age, and you you like I said, big Daddy came k R S one.
You know Marley ma, I mean you you know them? You know them all. M hoole wheezy nas.
Give your four goals. If we had a mound rushmore. Who do you do this all the time? I sure do, I sure do. Let me see if I have to throw your list at the wind, I'm winning down this. Throw your list at the window.
Well, let me even before let me just ask you this question before we get to the list. Okay, are we factoring in tenure? Because if I just took everybody's best album and to base it off of that, that'd be different than if.
Yeah, but I don't think. I don't I don't think you can say, I say who's the best running backs of all time?
Right?
Well, you can't say whoever had the best year because there are a lot of There are a lot of running backs that had better years than had a better year than Emmett, had a better year than than Jim Brown, had a better year than Walter Payton.
But that doesn't make but it goes into the longeem.
Yeah, but if people know who the best running back of all time is, they don't immediately go to Emmett, who is No.
No, no, no, no, They're probably none of them probably gonna say Emitt.
They're probably say Barry Sanders, they'll say Walter Payton, they'll say Jim. You know, I think it's it's all Barry, even though Barry never won a championship and we'll lose a lot of yards and a lot of carriers.
But it was the style. He was so elect like that style that he was so electric.
Uh. Jim was was was a man amongst men. I mean he led the league in rushing like eight times and nine years. He's one of the MVP. As a rookie, Walter Pagan was sweetness, bad offensive line, but he still gave people that work.
So people people like.
That for like I said, uh, as far as lyricists, Kris is one of my favorites. But and for the longest time I was on this thing like it was Tupac for me. But after like the last two weeks of just listening to Wayne and I love him. Yeah, Wayne Wayne, Wayne Is, Wayne is ridiculously talented.
I for me, it would be.
Just ability, superb ability, Marksman Chip, It's nas j Biggie rock.
Him Yeah, rock him. Was like yeah.
And then that other spot, you don't got them all, you ain't got them fall for those. I would take those four. And I love Eminem is nice. Eminem has a unique gift about him, the way he is Cadence, how he wraps and puts words together around that cadence is special.
Wayne is.
As good as anybody, Wayne Wayne and his career is amazing. You talk about longevity, I mean year old Wayne is Wayne Is. Wayne is a special dude.
Man. Wayne is a special dude.
For me, he just reasonable doubt and illmatic. I mean, Jane has more albums, Nas has a couple more albums, but that body of work is just so strong and it hits me right here where Wayne does that to, Like, if I ask Rich Paul's question, Rich Paul would immediately have Wayne, like jay z Wayne, He'd have Wayne right there.
Yeah, because it's just younger. And he spoke to him. What about Kane. People don't get Kane to credit. Yeah, Kin Cain had k Kine was tight. Kin was tight.
His career was short. Gotta be the problem with you.
But you know, money, But if you go back and look at it, if you think about it, guys didn't have ten fifteen year career.
You gotta have. You gotta have more than two albums.
Yeah, but al all of the anomaly to be able to do what he did in the eighties, the area is doing doing what he's doing right now.
No, but you gotta be able. You gotta you gotta stick to your craft, man. You gotta do like you gotta make two, three, four, five, six albums.
You gotta make. You gotta keep making music so so you want so you got a lot of guys. You know how hard it is for these guys. Uh, Shannon, you grew up in the projects. Fine, you go to the projects.
And you're writing your first album based off of everything you went through your entire life, correct, right, So you have eighteen years, twenty years of material.
However to make this first album.
When you make your second and third albums, now you're using the material that happened between when you put out the first album and that second could album, but not as money.
There's women's access.
So now all of a sudden, your material starts to fade because you start you're indulging in all this other stuff. Even now you move to la now you're writing about something else. So a lot of times it's very hard to write that second third. Second you can still get away with off the fumes of the first album.
The third album becomes really hard. Oh you get it.
Look, most artists who write there, who had a great first and second album, feel miserably on the third album. It's so hard to draw from the grit that you had before you made the first album and then and then now, okay, fine, can you get back to it now a lot of times they can't get back to it and it just slowly, it slowly falls off.
I all went back to it. I love made.
Mama said knock you outright, he made all that shit made. This went like this and then boom, Mama said knock you out. He came back.
Kin didn't make.
Mama said knock you out. Honestly, Rock Kim didn't make. Mama said knock you out. They couldn't make it. They couldn't find that record. Seven years later.
He said he made. Mama said knock you out. And round the way girl. Yeah.
Oh, and that when he had uh and then he made after years after that Jingling Baby, Jingling Baby remix, and then he made Love You Better after that. He has a phenomenal for the Hay Lover. Yea, yeah, I worked on that album that was ninety five, Yes, hay Lover and doing it well. I was ninety five, man, But that's ninety five. He was dropping records in eighty seven, correct, But ninety five came around.
I don't even know where Cainan rock him was. I'm bad.
I'm bad with now don't do that, don't do that, don't do that, don't do that. I'm gonna let you do that. Now come on Now.
Listen, I'm an LJ fan too, the dance routine and I'm bad when he did the shark fan was doing.
Yeah, that wasn't.
The real thing, right there does a little too much and I'm going back to Cali by the way, huge record. That's a risk that artists wouldn't take. Listen to that beat. That's a risk that artists wouldn't take. That was on the Lesson zero soundtrack. That was that was look at the video arts seed black and white, very very avant garde like.
That was way ahead of its time.
Those are the risks that those guys wouldn't make that he was willing to make. He's a true artist and he deserve He does deserve way more credit than he deserves as That's all.
I wanted you to say. Now we can move on to the conversation. See.
But he's one of the first also to have commercial appeal outside of the rap game doing fooboo. He had the gap stuff. Yeah, the gap stuff.
I don't know if he did something in the Gap commercial is one of the most gangster ships I've ever seen before. He's in the Gap commercial and he is a food who had on yep, do you remember the rep. I don't remember, but I remember. Let me tell you the rap.
Forget.
It wasn't that he had to hat on like damn, this nigga's in a gap commercial what food?
Who had on? God?
People didn't even know what that was, whatever that thing was in the commercial he raps and says for us by us on the low. That's in the rap. They don't even know that's what he said. He said for us by us on the low.
Game got. They don't even know what on the low means. They don't even know what for us by us mean?
Right?
They think he's the saying for us by us?
Right, I don't know some rapper shit, right, because I had Damien john on and he was he was telling he was telling me that story about uh L shooting commercial and doing the rap and had it on. One of the guys from Queens who started who started football with Damon, is a guy named Keith. He we went to kindergarten through third grade together. So there was also some great entrepreneurs obviously from Queens as well who helped start uh start start football. I mean, y'all mean look queen ting Like I said, you guys y'all get overshadowed because obviously you know Brooklyn has some of the names. But if you look at what you guys were able to do as far as not only just music culture and the clothing and merchandise, would you consider that Run DMC brought fashion into hip hop.
Because that the little.
Pants, leather pan or the shell toward dess with the fat strew shoes strand they were big ropes.
Yeah.
Prior to Run DMC, guys were looking like if you look at some of the early even even kind of like sugar Hill Gang. But after sugar Hill Gang, if you look at Africa Bembada, they were dressing more like earth winding Fire, like a lot of costume. Yes, yes, And then Run DMC, because of God blessed jam Master J said let's dress like those d boys. So they dressed like the way street guys dressed, drug dealers were dressed. And that's and when they put that look on.
Can't go sheltere leather blazer this that the third then they looked like they was just getting that money.
It wasn't about that costume.
It was a complete uh left turn from what those guys are doing. And that was that was huge. How big was Supreme the name at all? Man, I mean, Supreme Team was Queens. They ran the streets of Queens and there was a they were a presence to not to be fucked with, right And you know, to me, I never I actually never met Supreme I've seen him before, but he was, you know, a big, larger than life figure that had a you know, a big organization that were street guys that liked the party, you know, and they were like part of the business, you know. So yeah, they were big. I mean they were big. Supreme Team was big. Then years later, you know BMF was big. You know, coming out of Atlanta.
What is it about D boys and rap and rapping D boys that seemed to be so interwoven.
Well, the kids come from the artists are coming from the street. So as a result of the artists coming from the street, the guys that are around them and the guys they idolized, they probably at some point worked for with the street guys, and sometimes the street guys were the first guys to give them money. There was the startup money, go make this music, going to the studio, what have you. And that's a lot what led to you know, what got them going. So that's the that's the connection. But the truth of the matter is, even prior to the fact that that was the guys they looked up to and give the money, that's what the fans wanted. So you were emulating the street guy. So a lot of these guys, very few of them really are street guys rappers.
They were more.
Emulating street guys because that worked with the fans.
How have you.
Been able to create the music the advertising with some of the most successful companies in the world. You started in the music business, you transition to the advertising and you work with a lot of these Fortune five hundred companies. How have you been able to transition and parlay that you're music, you're advertising and with some of these Fortune five hundred companies, How have you been able to do that so successfully?
Early on it was hard. It was hard for two reasons. I wasn't necessarily good at it. I didn't go to college and I dropped out of college, so I didn't have any formal training and the credibility that comes with that formalized training to go into Fortune five hundred companies and be like, this is what you should do. And then the second thing is the thing I was trying to recommend them doing was really tapping into culture, and the culture that I was leaning on was hip hop culture, and that was tainted with gangsters and all kinds of reputational issues. So you got me coming in with no formal training and talking about something that is related to something that they don't even think is brand friendly. And then I would say, you know, to the CEO, because I'm really good at talking to people, so I to meet to the CEO and I'm like, ask your seventeen year old at home about this, because if they had a teenage at home, I'm gonna win. And I would speak to them about things that I knew was not necessarily on Narradar screen, but it was the next generation's concern, next generations something they celebrated, and I call that future proof. If you want a future proof your business so that the next generation is excited and you're relevant to them, then you should listen to what I'm saying because I'm talking about something that may not necessarily relate to you, but it relates to the next person coming down the line. And CEOs who are open minded to listening to that were the ones I've had the most successful.
With and their business has benefited.
And the first thing I the first thing I did, I mean it's written about what was the rebox work man? I mean you got Rebok, I told the CEO, Paul Fireman, founder of Rebok. I said, I don't care. This is a two two thousand and two maybe, I said to Paul, I said, Paul, there's nothing you can do to make kids believe they can jump higher or run faster in a pair of Rebox over a pair knights. There's no chance that take that idea that you're going to beat them at that game completely out of your mind.
So then he started talking further.
He was intrigued by that, by the certainty I had with that belief, and he started talking about brown shoes. I'm like, why do you say brown shoes? He goes because people wear brown shoes to work, I said, pull home on.
They don't. Kids are wearing sneakers to work right.
In fact, they're not even wearing a sneak is because they wanted them to perform well. They wear him because they like the color in it, because it matches their shirt, it matches their hat. So we need to actually go and play and pay that play that game and pay attention to that consumer.
And that's what led to Rebok RBK.
And then we started thinking about, like, who are some of the people that you could work with that would fit and sort of be the cohort. The cohort is the prototype for this thing. And it was jay Z. I'm like this guy. He don't like to move a lot at all, he don't like to sweat, you know, and he's the perfect person to be the lifestyle ambassador. And we created not an ambassadorship, but we actually created a brand called the es Carter, which was the first of its kind, an original sneaker that was Rebok powered and made it and that was successful. And then we did the g units and then the ice creams by far raland we built the business around Reebok.
That changed the brand.
It made them go from a brand that was relegated to like third fourth place to something that was aspirational because they were tapping into the culture more by you know, tapping into.
These artists and what these artists represented.
So how do you go about building a strong, lasting, valuable relationship.
In business?
Yes, yeah, you know, I think it's the fundamentals of anything. Man, you gotta do what you say. You gotta always do what you say. You can't say anything that you don't mean. And people you under promise and overdelivered. No, No, I over promise and overdeliver it. So you over Probably you tell people you're gonna do something, yeah, and then you times it yeah.
Yeah.
It's the same thing you push yourself. If I tell you I'm gonna do something, it means so much to me to live up to my word. I'll ask somebody when I hire them six months later, eight months later, did I tell you anything in that interview process that I haven't done.
I want to check myself on that.
I want to hold the mirror up to myself specifically on that topic, because I don't want to use my brain as a weapon and tell you something and be convinced to you and actually have no intent or don't follow throughing it. I just think that that's a terrible use of talent. So I do talk about my stretch goals, which is the over promise I'm gonna do this, so we're gonna do this and wenna do that. But I'm an entrepreneur, I'm a visionary. As a visionary Your job is to see things before other people see it.
Correct.
I'm used to being in that uncomfortable place of seeing something early. So I make those promises and I do everything I can to over deliver against that. The funniest thing is that you guys don't get penalized for being wrong.
You're wrong. He is no problem. Or you guys should have don jailing herds, but he had it.
But you don't think he's improved, Like he did lose his job at Alabama because he couldn't broke consistently.
That's why two got the job. Yeah, but they thought.
But even in the pros, if you look at him from his rookie year to where.
He is now, he's increased the throw up percentage by ten percent.
That's huge his accuracy, Yes, yes he said ten percent. Ten he was he was barely a He's like in the high sixties as opposed to the low sixties. Fiftieth You don't think that has an Antonio Brown AJJ. Yeah, of course, of course, but you have to understand what did he have? What think about what he had in Alabama and then what he had in Oklahoma. So yeah, giving him giving him back, But he improved he put the work in. I don't want to short change him and just say it's aj he put the work in. He put a lot of work in, because you can see him get exponentially better and his confidence crows.
There's not that many basketball players that came from Queens.
There's some, but not Kenny Anderson, Kenny Anderson, probably Kenny Smith.
Kenny Smith is from.
Right over here, and Kenny's from Luffrack, which is right over here, right, Kenny Anderson's from overhead.
There's a couple not like but not like all the way right all the way.
What place you think is more overrated where football talent comes from him?
Well, we know, well, we know, we know Texas and Florida. Texas is Florida, California. Georgia is right there, Georgia, Florida. California is the southern states where the weather is nice the majority of the time. Losing, Amma, you mean where people are working, where people are running in He say, if that's what you call it needs it needs to be warm.
New York, New York, New York. Who are is hot? Is hot? Okay?
Warm more time than it is cold. You're not gonna get You might get one or two from New York or something.
Like quans from New Jersey.
Yeah, mikaws from uh from from from Pennsylvania any No.
Yeah, Pennsylvania. I'm sorry.
That's not the South. No, but I'm saying, you know what I'm saying about the South. I was talking about the New York. I'm talking about this area. And that's saying y'all ain't got no b y'all. Yeah, it's from New Jersey, from Halfsburg, Hassburg. Brother, you do the weather. Weather is not nice in these places. You let you just mean two places whether it's not nice. I'm trying to figure out y'all got like four people in the NFL, Georgia got like thirty, California, Texas got like. The last thing I'm doing is compared to New York football.
We get, y'all.
We give y'all little basketball problem, but no, no, not a little I mean New York basketball.
No, no, no, no, no.
That y'all used to have that when y'all had Doctor J Kareem and all those guys.
It ain't the same. No, where does Kyrie come from? It ain't the same.
No one, where does Kyrie come from? Where does Kyrie come from I mean, it ain't the same. No, it ain't the same.
It ain't the same. It's not the same.
But y'all, you know because now guys with the guys go they go to other they go. I mean they might be born from here, but you know they go. Now they go play the Mount Verdier or they go to Oak Hill and they go to things like that. Yeah, and finish your IMG Academy and things like that. Nature guys are not being from an area playing in a high school like okay and moving on that.
That ain't happening no more.
What do you think about the transfer portal and what it's going to do to college sports?
Mad?
I don't know. And what do you think right next to that is.
As much as I'm so for college athletes getting their fair share, and Lebron and I and Maverick did a documentary on this, did a shut thing on it called The Student Athlete. We followed four student athletes. Man one of them got hurt. No health care fucked up the whole thing. But guy walking around campus for five million dollars.
Yeah, for sure, because there's no guarantee, like you said, he get hurt and then he can't play in the NFL or he can't play in the NBA. Yeah, well he got five million dollars. He got a great head start on life.
Get it.
I wish didn't get ten million. But I just saw the quarterback from Ohio and Ohio State and Oklahoma is in the portal right now? Yes, why the starting quarterback, starting quarterback of Ohio State, starting quarterback from Oklahoma or in the port.
Looking to get better deals? Yep? Oh.
I thought guys were going into portal because they were not gonna start. So they were like, oh, let me go into the portal because I can get a better opportunity somewhere else.
But if you already started at Ohio State, you started at Oklahoma, where you're going.
That's what I'm trying to figure out. What are they doing? Money? Somebody go give me an opportunity like Caleb.
You don't think Caleb Williams had an opportunity to make money in Oklahoma, but think about what he got at USC. What do you think about him right now? I think you gonna be a number one pick, can make every throw. He's athletic, great improvisationals. I have not trying to figure out his head on right. I think the thing is what they're gonna ask is like broh I mean, I think his defense was terrible, but they're gonna ask bro you that good. I mean, you couldn't win like none of these shootouts.
But I like him.
I think he's good. I think you're gonna really be good. I think there's a lot of quarterbacks in this draft. But it's like anything, man, you don't really know. I mean, brock Perty was a seventh round draft pick.
These guys in the NFL are really not as good as they think they are picking talent.
No, no, no, no, because it's like anything. It's just like you. You you're picking horses. They don't guarantee your horse gonna win the Derby or Piker's or a Bell knocks a Santa Nita.
You don't know.
What do you think about this whole idea of not even giving these guys a chance to warm up, to get that game together, just throwing them out there like that because you think that's the right thing to do.
Because here's the thing. I know they can pay them short money and they can find out.
But see, the thing is is because I need to know abody that third year before I give a guy three hundred million dollar contra bat you mean to tell mem I got to give a guy three on a million.
I don't know if you can play. They don't know. If the Giants don't know if the quarterback can pay, they pay him. They do.
He didn't play, but whether it didn't have no options, they have to pay Daniel Jones. What are they gonna go go with Tommy de Vito? Now before we even know Tommy DeVito? They could have, you know, they won't. They didn't have to pay that man one hundred and sixty million dollars, but they paid him based on last year. They disregarded all the things that they had done up until that point, and it says, we know what, we believe, this is the guy we're gonna get moving forward.
And did the same thing with Crushing Wentz.
Yeah, but Carson Carson had you know, Carson was about to be the MVP until he tore his me up in week thirteen.
He's gonna be the MVP.
And but it's a special type of quarterback that's good, get paid and they get better. You look at the Brady's, the Mannings, and now you look at the Patrick Mahomes you look at those guys, uh, the Rogers. Did those guys that Roger Aaron Rodgers? Yeah, when he was in Green Bay? Get paid, excuse me, and get better. Dak yeah, Dak. Dak has been very impressive this year. He's been very impressive this year. But are you watching the games?
Yeah? I am watching the game. Have you watched every single play? Okay? So you watched it for seven eight years? Right? Yeah? So okay, so you know the history, right? Yeah? Okay? I I yeah, I have not he in big games.
I have not seen him Okay, against the forty nine ers two years ago, against the forty nine ers last year, and the year before that. I said two years ago, two years ago they played day forty nine and beat him twice back to back.
Year. I just said two years, last year and the year before. Okay, what about this year the regular season? Did you see that game forty two ten?
Did you watch the game?
Yeah?
I don't know that. I understand why you would turn it off. I didn't understan in that game. What took? What did you understand? You understand?
Good old fashioned ass whip me. I don't understand why the defense could not slow him down. I don't know why the defen Dallas defense got well, why your offense couldn't score but ten points? You just talked that you just know. I know, I know, I know, I know you just told me about Dak. The Dak seeding thing wasn't working back then. It's on fire right now. Okay, so you don't see him in the playoffs, but that we now that was that. That's listen, I'm not I don't disagree with you. Dak makes really bad mistake. It's shocking to me sometimes he's been shocking though. You don't even like brock Berdy.
It's not about like a dislike I gottavaluate a guy on what I've seen. Kind of like now I need I need to see more consistency.
You make it. He's you. You're making.
You're making, You're making a check your girl after after a couple of dates. You want to see you want some way.
Okay, that's what I'm saying.
You think justin fields they can get a third round pick for him, Yeah, I think they get more than a third and.
Check them then great check Would you trade him? I would? I don't believe.
I don't believe me personally, I don't believe they're gonna pass up the chap Well, yeah, I don't think they're gonna they would pass up because it looks like they're gonna get Carolina. They have Carolina, yeah, and they're gonna have their own. So and with Justin Fields, if I can get me a qu a top notch veteran player, because there are a lot of teams that's gonna need quarterbacks. I just think Justin Fields needs a change of scenery. I don't think he's a bad quarterback. I just think he needs a change of scenor. In Chicago, ND they got where they just drafted a Richardson with the fourth thinking.
That's right, that's right. He was playing good too.
But uh, let me see who who the Raiders could use a quarterback. You don't think the Raiders can use a quarterback. Pittsburgh could use a quarterback. They don't want to agree with anything yet there's some denial about that kid. Oh picket man, please the fans about to start picketing.
I'm ask you a question that's separate the topic.
When you got to Baltimore, yes, and you've seen Ed and ray Ed wasn't there when I was there.
He came out there. He came after me. He came after I had went back to Denver. Oh, so you never got a chance to play with it, got play I played against him, I didn't played with him. You paid him, agains him when you were in Denver. Yes, have you ever seen anybody like that? No? No, He's the greatest Saint Travis. I played the games, took off the VM. He's phenomenon.
Payne Manny tells stories. He told the story on the the that the many casts. He told the story on when the NFL did the hundred Greatest Food. He told the story. But him, he added, Ed hid in the shadows of Lucas Stadium, in the Oil and Lucas Oil Stadium, that he couldn't count him.
He couldn't he couldn't find him.
On he couldn't find him in a priest and that breed and that was he told me that story live, that he couldn't find him.
And he he he couldn't find him in a pre wasn't the other safety white when Ed was there? It was a white safety. It was bad he.
Because he told the story that he could see that guy, but he couldn't find d He couldn't know where ed was that Edwards squatting in the shadows, almost like he knew where the shadow was and he couldn't fucking find him.
Then he told the story where Eddie he fell at fooled them up.
That was in Baltimore and ed ed what he did it was that Peyton looked him off and ed pretend like he was gonna drop one side and turn yeah, and took a line and picked the ball out from uh Ridgie Wayne.
Yeah.
Yes, It's one of the greatest plays that you'll ever see. And you have to understand what he did and how he did it to fool that guy because Peyton just knew he had him dead.
Write like I got him and probably I saw the play.
I saw the play at the time that it happened, and it was like, I'm like, how why.
There was no there was no indication that he should have done what he did. And how about Ray?
Ray was a student of the game. He was ferocious. He loved the game of football. He put time in it to be great. He worked hard, he was a student. He's very disciplined.
I spent time with him. I love hanging out with it.
Yeah, yeah, I'm actually going to I'm going to Nigeria next week. Yeah, we are opening up United Masters in a lot of thos Nigeria. I can't wait to go. I can't wait to go. I'm really excited about it.
Uh.
The independent music scene in Nigeria and South America, specifically Colombia and Argentina is going crazy. Wow because all these people they don't know of record companies. They just know make music, get it out and writing. They're writing monster hits. Yeah, but except these songs are becoming number one records. They're not. They're not. They're not just like regional songs. They're becoming global, impactful, monster number of records. Jay mentioned you in a song, then you get Jaya to put me on a song. I want to be a song man. I ain't never been no song, been no video. I ain't been nothing.
Man. You hot olbody life now you already you're crazy.
You don't need to be in no song on Shannon Shall won Wayne somebody reference.
Somebody said Shannon Shop and something.
I'm sure if I google Shannon Shop in the song, I'll find some shit.
I hat to this song, Bro, Steve.
I want to thank you for bringing me to your office showing me around Queens. I really appreciate it. Continued success, yeah, Steve Stout, Ladies and gentlemen.
All my life, grinding all my life, sacrifice, hustle, bad to price, Want a slice? Got the brother diyce Swap all my life. I've been grinding all my life. All my life, grinding all my life, sacrifice, hustle, bad to price in one slice, Got the brother diyce Swap all my life. I've been grinding all my life.
