Rich Paul, one of the most influential figures in sports, shares countless stories which include dice games where grandmas' money could’ve been taken. He delves into how he convinced LeBron James to return to Cleveland after the infamous and contentious letter from Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert. Rich sheds light on the strategic pitch he gave not only to LeBron but also to the key figures in his life: his wife, and his mother. Additionally, the episode explores the everlasting debate of Jordan vs LeBron, offering Rich Paul's unique perspective on the matter. This episode is a rollercoaster of captivating stories, sports strategy, and deep insights into the world of agents, making it a must-listen for all sports fans.
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Hello, Welcome to another edition of Club Shay Say. I am your host, Shennon Sharpe. I'm also so the propriet of Club Shasha, and the guy that's stopping about for conversation on the drink today is one of the most powerful figures in sports. He's a self made superagent, founder CEO of Clutch Sports. His agency represents over two hundred athletes in multiple leagues. He's negotiated over four billion dollars in contracts. He's an entrepreneur, a businessman, and he's from the east side of Cleveland to the top of the sports world. His newest memoir, Lucky Me, a Memoir of changing the odds Rich Paul.
Frich, How you doing it? Bro?
This is no, don't even start.
Go ahead, go ahead, tell your story, go ahead, and then trying.
To get on club and you skip over everybody but your dog.
But it's cool. Don't worry about it. You know what, you know?
I got my old Brandon Kanyac. I said you about it. I know you got it.
It's on my shelf.
Yeah.
Uh, you don't let me an investment. But it's fine. I don't think. Don't worry about it.
To come to get to where you got to, come to where you came from and do it in the class, in the manner in which done it, and to help those coming behind you to show them I did it.
You can do it. Chiz, thank you.
Let's let's start with the book, luck at Me, a memoir of changing the odds.
Why was it important for you to write this book.
I think it's important because we need as many positive examples, positive examples that we as we can too and oftentimes it doesn't have to come in a figure.
It can come in a storyline, shared experience.
And so this book is lucky me, but it's really about us.
This is a gift for me to.
You. In terms of whether you youth, where you came from a certain community. I think everyone aligns with the people that have been that has been reaching out and the comments that I've been getting from all people.
I was in the gym this morning, the man came up to me.
He had to be seventy years old, and he just was you know, he was just floored by the story.
And he was just like, man, you know, just more blessings to you.
I think that impact is really helpful, right And for me, I didn't know how much I actually needed to write the book. I was withholding that trauma that I went through for all those years and I didn't find out that I needed to release that until I was writing the book. And so for me, it's not necessarily about sales, etc. If I can help one person change the perspective that I started here. I'm going through this right now, but I see an example of somebody who also went through some of the same things. And I don't have to finish here. I don't have to give up hope on my life. I don't have to give up hope on an opportunity.
That lies ahead.
I can take little bits and things of what I do have, not so much focus on what I don't have, but let me focus on what I do have and make the best of that. Just to get to the next step in life is what I deemed important today, and so I'm ecstatic for you to to get through it all.
I know you touched on some of it, but you know.
It was I haven't been able to get through the whole book fits and pieces, obviously because it's just such an emotional rollercoaster for me.
But as we were writing it, and as I was.
You know, just going telling it, I did the audio book, which was extremely emotional, and at the end, I'm not gonna spoil it for you, but at the end, I you know, I do something for my mother, and it's tough.
In the book, you mentioned that your dad on a corner store, convenience store.
You worked in the store.
So by that stretch of the imagination kind of you kind of get on rich. I mean, you got a little convenience store, you know.
What we felt like that that wasn't the truth because you got to remember so the store was my was my Savannah State.
Okay, Okay, That's where I got my curriculum. That's where it was at, right. But I also just.
I learned math, I learned customer service, I learned marketing.
But the most important thing I learned.
Was people, right, because there's all walks of life coming into that store, and you know, through the course out through throughout the course of their day, their energy is different, you know, so you had to be able to balance certain things.
I had to learn this at a very young age.
Everybody's not happy, everybody, somebody had a bad day.
Yeah, and there probably became your problem. I had to watch my father navigate his way through this to make margins on Boston baked beans and cigarettes and beer and wine.
That's not those aren't big margins. You understand what I'm saying.
But yet in still his approach to opening that store every morning, how he treated people, whether you had a dollar or one hundred dollars was important, and he explained to me, and as a chapter in's book where we talk about just having the empathy for others, where he taught me that this is your family is these customers, these consumers. It's important to take care of them right and to treat them a certain way. And it really affected my life and really shaped me right because I would learn stuff from a textbook, but my education came from that store.
Right. I think the thing is rich is that empathy. I think.
Empathy is being able to divorce your ego, set aside your ego, and see yourself as someone else. And I think when people will like circumstances, it's easier to have empathy. Because your dad saw himself. He's like, I ain't really rich, so he saw himself. It's some of these poor, less fortunate have less having than others, and so he could empathize. So was he that type of store owner that hey, mister Paul, how you doing today?
Hey?
Hey uh Savanah, Hey Ricky, Hey.
Johnny, Miss Sharp sent you down there, Little Shannon.
Yeah, you don't got a dime in your pocket, but you need bread, right, you need soap?
Toilet paper.
Well, miss Sharp sent you. That's all he needed to know. Miss Sharp sent because she already called before you got that, right, you understand I'm saying. So now when you get there, and then you may be sitting there looking and he may say what you want, boy, and you said, man, can I have some of the cherry clans?
Go?
You go ahead take it, you know, And so that exchange. Now you become Shannon. Now you shanning from such and such. Now here come a little rich.
You know what I'm saying.
How my dad treated Shannon, miss Sharp's grandson at that moment, and now you're shanning.
You get them saying.
Save my life in a lot of ways. And people don't understand that. And so my daddy would always tell me you want a man twice a child, and I never understood what that meant. And then he explained it to me right around the age on the cover of that book, and he said, as you climb, as you're born a child, you grow to become a man. As you get older, you start to become a child again. And how you treated people as a man will have a direct correlation of how they treat you as you become a child again, and that always stuck with me. And I come from a place where your money didn't matter, that don't matter.
Who you are at your core is what mattered.
And so despite my successes, I always carried that with me, even into the representation business, which you and I both know as a former player, that don't exist, right, And so I brought that with me and it's and it's it's extremely important and I live with that every day.
I read in the book and it seems to me one of your proudest moments is that the family was struggling. You didn't have a whole lot to eat, and you go ask your uncle and he gives you twenty dollars out of the register and you go and you go and hit the lick and you were able to go buy bread. You was able to go buy a daily meat. We call it lunch meeting in the South.
Y'all, well okay, okay, okay, so we call it color le me.
So you were able to buy some things and at that moment it dawned on you like man.
It made you feel good.
I can provide.
Then, was that the moment that you saw Because we all have a purpose same thing happened to me. When I would get paid, I would buy I would you'd give my grandmother ten dollars or the forty dollars that I made. It wasn't much, but it helped buy something. From that moment on, I've been a to my entire life. My job is to provide for my family with that. In the moment that you said, you know what rich Paula's are provided?
Yeah, because me, my brother and sister. I got two older sisters and the older brother. I'm the youngest, but my older sister Brandy, and my older brother Miko.
We lived together.
So my mom wasn't there, Okay, my dad had his family, and so there was plenty of times where it was no one there.
So we had to do things as a collective.
How much older are there than you?
My brother's three years older and my sister five years old, but you know, seven and twelve, and that's I mean, you know, that's that's a big jump in terms of responsibility, right, Yes, And so I watched my sister babysit other people's kids and then you know, take her money and I would go to the mall with her. That's how I learned fashion. My sister taught me about She she made that bug bite me for clothes and all that. And then I watched my brother do what he had to do, and so I had to play my part, and so what I was able to do. So like you're saying, whether it was that, whether it was shooting jump shots and not having no money and had to make it to win and going to to to get the you know, I used to buy the juice the lunch meat because my mother taught us how to do this. A couple pounds of lunch meat, the juice, and then we would get the bread or whatnot.
You said, you're going through the juice too quick.
Exactly. I had to get to cooler cause it was going too fast. We had to stretch it, you know. And so and so.
But but when I when I felt like you said, I felt good as a young kid, and I'm going to I went to a school called Upson in Euclid, Ohio.
I'm in the fourth grade, and I remember this adding to.
The calls in the fourth grade, and I didn't have nobody to to say to you, you better be going to school. It was a decision that I had to make that I wanted to make at a very young age, and so did my siblings. But there was also time to where I used to walk to parking we had. It was a place called the Americana. My dad had a little we called the Honeycomb hide Out. He had a little Honeycomb hide that we had to take over right because we had nowhere to go. But I would walk and pick up a quarter here, a dime here. And it was a little bar next to another apartment complex called the Horizon House. Back then, it was a little bar and grill, and they would have these cheeseburgers and you and as a kid, you can go in there before a certain time in order from the grill and the doubt, you know, and that and and that's how I would eat some days, you know, And so all those things don't shape me.
I don't look at that as a negative thing.
And it was a struggle, but I didn't know it as much, right because I didn't know anything per se.
Different, And because everybody around you was probably going through the same thing, you didn't think you any different.
Everybody else was struggling.
Because you know what separation you at that point, you could be struggling and have a new pair of shoes on. Yeah, right, and it elevated you. So those things. I always had the things right. But what I didn't have is that family infrastructure, that consistency in the household. I didn't have that. But what I was able to control, I controlled. Just because I didn't have X didn't mean I was gonna sit in class and be a dummy. I wasn't gonna follow the class clowns. I wasn't gonna do abacadaba on my test just because you know, I wanted to be in school. I didn't want to miss school. And that showed a lot about me as a person. The things didn't make me. That was, you know, because I can make shift. My sister taught me how to make shift things where you can go to TJ Max and get a Ralph Lauren it may be a little defective, you know, and wear just the same.
And so I learn those.
Little things to feel good because you know, when you don't have much, especially back then, the littlest things elevated you make the biggest difference, right, And so that.
Was that was important to me.
But I also knew then the responsibility of right from wrong.
At that at that point, and that's what I was about to get to. You said, Okay, I'm a hustler. I rolled dice, trying to hit the lick, shoot pool, shot.
Jump jumpers, horse, casino race, whatever you wanted to do.
Back you didn't want to do it, but you didn't go a lot of times kids like well, I didn't really have a choice, so I had to go this route.
You never not.
Then when I made those choices, I understood because I had the influence in front of me. So I set on the porch until it's when I jumped off the porch. It was because of survival. Because you know, when you have an entrepreneurial spirit in the hood.
What's your options? What's your real opportunity?
Right?
The lady who took that picture, we called her picture Lady. She would that was her, that was her her hustle. She would have the polaroid and she would come on the block and she turned our best outfits into pictures.
That was art.
She could have been Dina Lawson.
That was art.
She could have been uh she, that could have been Instagram.
But nobody's nobody recognized what she was doing and recognized the business of it and say to her.
You ever thought about this and let me invest in that. Everybody on the right of me had a hustle. Everybody on left of me had a hustle. The person in front of me had a hustle, and the person in back of me had a hustle.
There's no careers, there's no great job, there's no equity positions. You get what I'm saying, there's no VC, there's none of that. I didn't even know what that meant. You understand what I'm saying, and so understanding what it means today is different. But when I look back on it, the only difference between me or someone like me and anybody else in the world that has been an innovator, a genius, uh, you know, created something and built it and grew it. They had the opportunity, the option, and someone willing to support.
We don't have that. So we had to turn to what was placed in our environment.
Now, some people did it, and they did it with malice, they did it with whatever.
That was never me.
My intent was always I always tried to find the right, even within doing wrong.
That makes sense.
Yeah, what's the most money? You like roll?
You say you like rolling dice? So what's the most you you've made in a day and the most you've lost?
When what age con sine? You gotta understand.
So what age did you start rolling dice?
About seven or eight? See, my dad taught me.
The reason why my dad taught me how to He taught me and my siblings how to gamble, shoot dice, and play cards. It wasn't from a gambling perspective. It was from a survival perspective because he said to.
Us, these are the tools. These were exact words. These are the tools that would allow you to get from here to here.
If you get laid off on this job, to get to the next job, you're gonna need some time to get by.
Here's some things you can do to get by. I turned it into my.
Job, you know, because I got I got infatuated with it, you know, And so because it's.
Quick even money, cause because every road money's moving.
And and that's the thing and everything. So I and so my dad would take me to the family reunion and you know, once to drink, I'd be grand out to money.
It don't matter.
Talk brandy money. I don't grady take the money out of the bullsom.
I beat your grandma out of the money, my grandma. Whoever got the money I wanted. I'm beating about the money. You don't have to worry about that, because that's what it was. There's no when you start gambling. There is no age limit when you if you got money, you in play.
You in play soon as you put that money.
And ain't no.
I didn't mean to do that because.
You know, and when we was back in the day, we used to catch the doctor. We had to cut that out because you know somebody doing it.
You seen what I did?
I did, I did like this, What did.
You talk about that?
So so when I was young, we totally cut catching out. There's no more catching. Now that does the number of things. It opens the game up, it spees it up. But then you got the slickster's comedy. So now you got to match that sickness.
So now it's it's it was. You know, it's a free free fraus.
So we had spots, right, and so the best way for me to quit it. DuPont was like Massive Square Garden or the Staples Center. That's where all the everybody was. Those are the big game. That was the big game. Average role in that game was probably about one thousand dollars a row.
Wow, you know, and it's and it's the who's who you know everywhere.
So when you and so as a young kid being allowed to be in that game, you know, that's.
Like a rookie start. It's like a rookie making All NBA team.
But you know rich when that kind of money is involved. People got them things on them, they got them switches.
Well they ain't had that back then, but yet you know, but that was necessary. But you know that.
You know, because you know, money, money does thingily if I lose a.
Big yeah, but I'm gonna tell you something about these specific areas and every now and then you had issues, but not like it would be today because there was a lot more respect right But back then it was just different because again when I talk about the who's who, there ain't even no conversation.
That's no go period.
You knew that that was a you know, it was a respect and a rapport and but at the same time, you know, it was things that got a little chippy here and there. But it started with these youn't Yeah you wasn't doing but again but we had so we had the hut the Hut wasn't The hut was like you know, the hut was like the United Center, right, and then Forest hill Pool said, Forest hill Pool, that was again, that's like the Staple Center or the or the or the Garden, because that's where all everybody come. There many and they Deamonte's with the vogues on them. They force, they got the gator sandals on with a fresh pedicure, and they popping down pay This was I come up.
So as a kid, I'm seeing guys pop the trunk.
They got a case of Don Perry out so as we get a hold of them when we get fourteen fifteen. I didn't even drink, but that's what we wanted. My friend cases are mo ad cases are down, you know, going to Blue Point for dinner and stuff like that as young men. Because because we're hanging with forty five year old men.
That's teaching us this. And so I was never really allowed to be a child per se. But the game was given. That's why the ceet I city in today. I got to get a game because it was given to me.
Been to a have a dice game recently.
No, you don't have dice because you know some some player like to play cards and you know with their buddies. Yeah, now you can't have outside because they're gonna try to sleep. They're gonna bring the crooked dice, loaded dice that roll the channel four all day.
I would love to in a in an environment because you know, you like to be the shop, you like to be you know, we just love that part. But it's just too dang, it's two days. I won't to do it today, but amongst friends if they would. But now all my friends they need to back.
So you can't be you know, you can't.
You can't be shooting for eight hours because you know they need they have to go out and score forty five.
You know, you can't do that. So it's a different dynamic now. But they love it right, you know.
But but again, but just the house, the gambling house, the characters within the gambling house, the teachings within the gambling house. See, we had to learn by losing. That's how we learned by losing. These kids today they want to skip every step in the process and they.
Don't want to just win win win.
No, it don't work.
They won't take it, you know eventually.
Yeah, yeah, for sure, you were raised by your grandparents, And you said that when in the book I read in the book where you went to live with your grandparents, your granny was really strict.
Most grandparents are.
Detail you were like all the kind of like, like, damn, what was the first time I ever had my own room?
When I moved with my grandma Johnny May, it was the first time I ever had my own room, right, you know, And I'm looking around.
I can't believe it, but it's me.
It's Johnny. My grandma Johnny made my grab my camera. My uncle Charlie, now they are These are on my father's side. My great grandmother.
All she ate was Wrigley's gone. So when I would come home from my dad's.
Store shed she ate spearmint big not big red cause it was too hot, right, spearmint uh doublemint, and juicy fruit cause it wasn't no winter fresh then yet. And my grandma Paul the only thing she ate was peanut M and m's. My uncle Charlie went to see his girlfriend one one day out the week. He leave at ten o'clock on Tuesday. He come back eleven o'clock on Wednesday, A wear white shirt, hat, Stacey Adams.
You could eat off the car, but was so clean. But he was so detailed.
At ten o'clock, no matter what the game, the game could be in overtime when that clock strike ten o'clock. If you sitting outside my house, you could see him going up the stairs to get in the bed. This is what so I know I don't use alarm clock right now to this day because my grandmother get up every day at three thirty in the morning, Babe her mom. Then she go downstairs and you know, do what she needs to do. She washed it and she cooking it at the same time. Then I get up at five thirty. My dad's picking me up. We opened the store at six. That was my routine every morning.
Wow, you said your mom struggled with addiction when you were a child. What impact did that have on you? Not having her the mother? We know what the mother brings to the family. Yeah, the matriarch. What did that do to a young rich loss.
Of emotion and vulnerability? You know, because in order for you to love something, you have to allow yourself to be vulnerable. I had to wipe that out because it affected me in a way in which I loved my mother loved my mother.
When she was around.
Life.
For the part, you could smell the food coming from down the hall. Oh you would have been you would have been so overwaken, my god, cakes, pies, chocolate pie, cherry pie, peach.
Cobbler, but not a pudding. I mean, it was the work. It was unbelievable, unbelievable. But you know I didn't have that.
I'm only getting that for two three days at a time. I may I may be without it for six months, six seven months at a time. And I just had to understand. And the way my dad put it to me, it was a sickness. So I had to just understand it and move on. But it was tough, you know, because parent teacher conference, I look in the stands, I'm at my.
Games, homecoming, you know, whatever the case may be. She ain't there.
But I'm always I was always in somebody else's car with they parents, or at somebody else's house with they parents, you know, holidays and things like that.
It was always that, and so it could break you, but it didn't break me. Mentally. I was able to overcome it.
And you would never know, you would never know what I was with, what you deal with Oh, you would never You would never know that because I didn't wear it on my jacket.
You said earlier that some of the things that when you started writing this book you didn't realize how much trauma you had endured. And as you started to write, it became very emotional, and in the audio books it really audio portion.
It really started with this. The main reason why.
Yeah, because you know, you relive in those moments, you get extremely emotional. You know, I lost both my parents at such a young age nineteen and thirty six, lost my mom at thirty six, lost my dad in nineteen and you know, just reliving those moments, man, it's tough, and I know what kids go through today because there's you could be My dad wasn't present, but he was present, right, He didn't live with me, but he was present. My mother wasn't there, but I had so much respect for that. The I did get to spend with her, I spent it. It was never a place of then. I never came from a place of anger. I never came from a place of disrespect. And by the way, even if I wanted to come from a place of disrespect, my mother could throw down, so she ain't going for that anyway, You're gonna get your lip flat for sure.
So but I never even came like that. You understand what I'm saying.
And so, but when I was writing a book, and especially when I was doing the audio book, when I got to the end where I write this message to my mom, it really choked me.
You only get one mom, man, you get one mother. And I try to explain that to my clients today.
The way our industry is today, sometimes it becomes a joust amongst families, and it's very important for everyone within the family to have perspective and to have clarity. For many years, had a black cloud over that title that was considered somebody that was shady or somebody that was It was a gray area there. I wanted to change that. The The the fortunate thing is I have been able to change it somewhat. The unfortunate thing has been, and we talked about it, is that you still wake up every day. I can't change the color of my skin. And as tough as it is with the industry, we make it even tougher on ourselves because there's still a competition.
And don't get me wrong, when you when you're going out and recruiting clients. Yeah, you're competitive, so, but.
But you're not speaking ill, you're not speaking negative on some way. And that's the thing to the best, the best man, best man woman win the job. So I'm not but I'm not gonna say, oh, this person, that person is that to try to conjure up so the athlete feels some type of way.
Yeah, yeah, this is what I can abide. This is what I believe.
I'm the best man for the job. My agency and I think we can do the best job for you moving forward.
And that's the point I was making when we talked about it, when we did first take The point I was making was, of course I didn't.
Expect white agents to help to try to help me.
That wasn't even expectation, right, But coming from where I came from, the game was given by the older guys. Whether you decided to digest it or not was on you. But I can't sit here and say that my coattail wasn't pulled to certain things to help me get through the day, get through the month, get through the year of survival.
So that's all I know.
I only I got to give that back when I started that wasn't the case. And I seen people online like, oh, well you didn't say that. I'm like, you're missing the point, right.
Did you reach out? Did you? I mean, I don't need to call it any names, but did you reach out to any agency?
And I first started the business, I talked to everybody because I wanted to understand why are things the way they are? And what I came to understand is ain't no different in the block and man for themselves. That's just that's just that that that has been placed upon us from a thought process.
But what happens is when.
You create those that psychology, it stunts to growth and stunts of communication habits.
It's stunts. I should have came up under something that was already built, right, That's.
Normally how it happens. Agency.
They normally come up in a big agency and then they branch out on their own. You started differently, You started out.
On your own.
I started differently.
I started a place, but I don't even count that because there was no education there, There was no there was no plan for me to become who I am today. But what I started to realize is, oh, you know, we work in a small industry, so things get back.
Yes, the only.
Difference is the kid on the cover of that book. In that environment, when things get back.
Oh we're pulling up.
You get what I'm saying.
In this industry, when someone goes and and speaks about you in a very derogatory way for two.
Hours, ain't that much to say? Now, the business is the business. Competition is in all business.
But when you make it personal, that's a different dynamic like primes and then you made it personal, right, But but we couldn't do that.
I you know, it's not in me. I couldn't be trying to talk to a girl and mentioned Shannon. We don't. That's no go where we don't. We don't do that.
And so but I'm in this game where I left a game that was being played with no rules and no rest. But you understand that, yes, yes, but in the corporate setting.
It really ain't.
There's rules, but the rest are signed to the establishment. In a lot of cases, I had to learn that. I had to learn narratives. I had to learn how media works. I had to learn all these things. And I also had to learn that the smiles is not really the smiles. But I was used to that because I came from that, so I was prepared thoroughly for the position I'm me in today.
It's just that it's hard for me to respect it.
That's all.
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You love sports? Coming up? Your team? Yeah?
Basketball? Your team won the state title. How good of an athlete was Rich Park?
On the scale of one to ten depend on the year. If you're talking about ages, if you're talking about a seven, live up total a seven to twelve.
I was about an eight because everybody's just the same about it, eight or not. You got the tape, go look at the tape. I got the tape. Pull the tape.
We wanted.
We wanted that. We won the city championship.
I won MVP, I did an interview. I think my teammates everything. But then once I got into high school, it changed. But it also changed cause I didn't put in the work. See I'm down at the hut. They gambling. I'm missing something. You know, we got a big dice game. We got a summer of the game, a euclid. I show up at halftime.
That ain't right, man, But you know I'm down forty five hundred. I got to get back. But so I just took the riddle of it. The suite. I understood it right.
But as I talk about this, me not starting on my team didn't discourage me from being a part of the team. I was a part of a great team. I had great teammates, and I was on the second team every day in practice, and we made the first team work. Sometimes we would beat the first team. Sometimes I would get in the game. Sometimes I wouldn't get in the game at all. Right, and I look up in the stands. I stood my brother there some die. Nobody in my family really cared about sport. But my brother would be there sometimes. My dude would be there off the block sometimes and support. But it was okay because I understood my position, understood my role. But when we leave out this locker room, now it was my turn to be the man.
And that's all fair. Shame had never been no robber, you know what I'm saying.
After the game, you hit it back down to the block.
We had it somewhere. You know, I may have some if my dudes came to the game. They didn't come to the game for the game. They came to the game because where we're.
Going after the game, Yeah, And we would go down certain places.
But I respected my teammates, you know, we we and I enjoyed it. I played against Mike Gansey, who's a he's a GM of the cast now.
A lot of guys. We played against Steve Logan, Sam Clancy, a lot of guys that was that was top guys. We loved it.
We loved the game we played. Sat played football right, his dad, his son played for USC. They all played for a team called Saint Edwards. I went to Cleveland Beverdicton, but Glennville was my neighborhood high school.
That was pretty yeah. But during the basketball side was pretty good. We played with the same same Saint Mary every year.
We had a we had a big time schedule. I want to and I'm really close with a family in Columbus. Shot and seen family in Columbus, and we I won the last state championship in Saint John's and the first state championship in the shot on Ohio State's campus. You know, And so when you when you plan in it, you don't know. And then you meet the family whose name is on the arena, you know. All these things just how life takes you. But I was a I was a pretty good athlete. I will say this laugh if you want to. I'm one of the best shooters though even still to this day. And I'll take my chat. If I was in the one of four fifty, I'll be at the top. It's guys like me, Steph Clay, Clay Who Thompson. Oh, I was gonna be dang.
This man talk about he shooting? Like, are you talking?
If you're just talking shooting, this is a class I'm in y'all.
Going down to the gun range that you talk about basketball into a.
Rim, Trey Darious Garland. I'm just talking about guys in the league right now that shoot the three really well. I would be amongst the.
He's having good See he's having a good old interview. I mean it was going well. I really the story that you was telling, it's been similar.
But I'm talking about in terms of I didn't say dribbling, playing, I said shooting.
That's all I'm said.
The mere fact that you put in yourself Ridge.
You are talking legends. You gotta throw Reggie in there, and Ray, it's all of us.
My point is you putting yourself in that group.
I ain't got no problem with the name you miss it's just the fact that your name is in there in terms of shooting.
I don't care what it is.
Well, yeah, I feel good about it, and I ain't drinking. I'm not drinking no, yack, I'm drinking water.
No, you should have drannk you too sober to be saying something like that. I need a reason why you said some bullshit like that.
I'm just sorry. Where you saying some police just like that?
Well, I'm just telling the truth. I put it this way. You know, when two men got discrepaned, what's the next word?
Ben? Exactly?
That's all. It's the only way for you to find out.
I want you to tell the people what you told us before we came on there. I said, you played sports. You're like, you know, we're getting into that.
So y'all. In football, I could run some routes. Go ahead.
I was a good route runner. I played every position.
Man, But I'm not saying I was the best because I was. I'm the first to say to you, no, I was not the best on my team. I wasn't the best on any team I ever played on. But you know what, I was great at leadership, having perspective, okay, right, corralling the guys, helping them understand the moment what needs to take place, my practice habits.
I'm leading the leading the team when we run in the lapse.
Because I have to respect that, because I was expecting you to come out here and say, yeah, man, I could if i'd have grew like another five secs, I could have played in the NFA.
We don't do no one thing about it, you got. We don't do no bunch of lyne. We don't do no bunch of line. Ain't need to be getting on.
They're talking about no line because all somebody gonna do is put up to take, So I don't need to do none of that. No.
So college, high school, you did what you like. You said you were no dumby, no.
Being smart, very smart at tend it in class.
Make sure I got my homework, because at that point in time in high school, did you know the kind of the direction that you wanted to go in when you became an adult?
Not at all, Not at all. I thought I was gonna be a pro until my father told me I wasn't.
In ninth grade, I read in the book that you said you used to like drinking coffee. I did, And then your dad told you that coffee stuted your growth, and you stopped. But you might have stopped a little bit too late.
Because I was drinking black, drinking the coffee black.
Yeah, but do you let it realize that coffee don't start the growth.
I didn't know what to believe, you know, they concept, you know, craying back then anything. I didn't know what to believe.
And you started drinking tea. So you're and you're in high school, you graduating high school. What's rich Paul's next plan?
I wanted to go to college.
I did go to college. I went to college, and my dad was still alive. My dad stressed education so much. I just wanted to further my education. Nobody in my family went to college, right, So I went to college, and I did everything on my own. I remember picking the college I wanted to go to, going to guidance counselor you know, going to my uh you know, my orientation right and seeing the dorm and all that I had.
No my dad or mom didn't come on this stuff with me. I did it by myself else, you know.
And but unfortunately my my my freshman year of college, uh, around September, my dad got sick. My dad got really sick. And I remember the conversation I have my dad because I was talking to him about some books I had to order, and he had this this attitude about it. And my dad never had an attitude about education. But he didn't tell me anything. My uncle Joe had to tell me what was going on, and my you know, my sister and so and and it just it just happened so fast, and so I had to transfer to be closer to my dad, and I would that's when I went to Cleveland State.
And then man, it be some days I'll be driving the class and.
I would just turn around and go sit with my dad because I didn't know how long I was gonna have with him, right, And you know, and that was a tough tough thing for me.
How did you balance that knowing that that death is on the horizon for you?
Yeah, while all the wi but.
I still got to live. Yeah.
My dad used to always tell us, though I ain't gonna be here forever.
He used to tell us that my dad didn't shoot coat anything because life didn't shoot cot anything. And the store was on that corner, and when you stepped out on that corner, you was a part of the environment, and so at that time, anything could happen, right, and so that's how he prepared us.
And so it was tough. Though it was tough, but I got through it.
But it was tough, but I I'm glad I did spend those days, and some days I would just go and just sitting next to his bedside.
You know, you say, I read where you said that the streets was your more house, was your Harvard. That the knowledge that you got to deal with people in business on a corporate level, on higher side. Now, all that information you didn't get from books, you didn't get from a college. You got it from the streets and dealing with people in the streets, dealing with people in your dad's convenience.
Yes, yeah, because to me, And that's why when they brought.
Up the rich Paul Rue, I didn't think that made any sense, especially working in the business that we're working.
Within the service industry.
You don't learn how to service people from a textbook. You learn that through experience, right, And when I was out there, that was my experience at my dad's store, dealing with people, seeing the pitfalls and challenges, and.
I realized something you can learn so much from from someone telling you.
Their failures, because everybody want to know what's what should they be doing successful, but you also should want to know what you shouldn't be doing. It's so much in to learn from what not to do. And so that's how we learned. We had to learn the silhouettes so people, we had to learn cars, we had to learn how to just diffuse situations like I talk about my friend Cactus in this in the book, and it was a situation.
It's my friend.
He lived on the next street Edmonton Woodside. And I told the story not because today currently he's incarcerated, but when he gets out. It not because we won't be friends, because we were friends.
But as a young.
Black man, you don't always understand how to communicate right. You don't want to be judged because you always are being what judged, and so what that does is it causes you to act even despite you not wanting to act a certain way. So I tell this story about what took place with us, and I had to understand the position that he was in and I had to pivot. So therefore he wouldn't be in a position where he had to act even on something he probably would have regretted down the road, and so that's all I was the reason I.
Told that because it's the same way today.
Everybody's everybody's committing things an act because they don't want to be judged, or they don't know how to communicate something to someone else, and so you know, a two minute decision cost them twenty years of life, right, and it's too much of that.
How did you decide to go into the line of work that you're currently in.
It was organic. I love sports, I love fashion, I love people.
I played the game, I watched every game, I played every sport, did taekwon, doe box, gymnastics, football, baseball, basketball, and all my friends played sports for the most part. And then I had another half that, you know, we was kind of split down the middle.
And so.
As I you know, as I was getting into the jersey business, I'm selling the jerseys.
Again. It's just sports and culture. It's all the same. It's like it intersects.
And I never planned on being an agent, but I always had this ability to connect with people.
I knew the game. I know the game. I can talk football, I can talk basketball, I can talk baseball. Right, and so.
As I started to see what representation looked like. I started to understand that it was in a lot of ways.
It was surface deep.
There was a perception that the agent should look like this, and then from that perception, there was an opportunity given to others, right, and so now that game was started to be played. Your agent has to look like this. There was a narrative that it has to he had to be a lawyer or whatnot. And then on the flip side, they have a relationship with the shoe company or whatever, and the shoe company understands the players coming in.
They know what they have and what they don't have.
They're given that information to one or two or three individuals only, and then here they come and because of because of the perception of them and how they looked, the families deemed them to be what, educated, better, position, smart, all these different things. And then when I got behind the walls, I'm like, well, that's food's goal because they don't know our culture for sure. So when I'm doing a shoe deal, if I have a signature athlete, there's some things that you need to know to better position that person.
There's a reason why.
Certain decisions was made for certain athletes because that representation didn't know cool right and didn't know culture. But we tend to skip over that and not value certain expertise because it's not packaged a certain way.
See this is packaged.
When you look at the best brands in the world, they're packaging matters right. Our packaging automatically was discredited from day one, So now I had to work around that, right, So.
Started Clutch. You says, Okay, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna start my own company. Yeah, what was your thought process behind starting your own company?
I was so motivated. I was in a position where, you know, you could just feel with somebody trying to play you. And I wasn't that type of guy. I was never dependent of somebody. I was always know how to get yeah, and so there wasn't no challenge for me to lead an agency. I left, and I wasn't really like you know, they would tell you, oh, it was planned or we positioned like that, that's all bullshit.
No, it was it wasn't planned. I had an issue. The issue wasn't being resolved.
And oftentimes, when someone quote unquote feels like they gave you an opportunity, you should forever be.
Indebted to them. But I'm like, no, you can, you could.
I mean, I understand the idea of the opportunity, but it didn't. It came because I was somebody's friend.
We had to we have to learn to start being a slave the lord.
Yeah, and I'm like, somebody gives us an opportunity and we feel forever debted although things are not going the way that they should.
Nah, I appreciate the opportunity.
Yeah, but but but my thing is, you know, the opportunity of of what entirely?
You know what I'm saying, because at the end of the day, yeah, there's an opportunity, but what's the plan?
Right?
There was no plan the play. It's just all good as long as somebody else has had I never want to be in that in.
That position, and it was all good. Played the role. I played the role, and I was doing my thing. I started to get talent.
I started beating guys out and I wasn't even a registered agent and I was beating guys out right, and they didn't know how. Nobody really knew how. But I had a connectivity. And so when I when I seen it, I can.
Actually do it.
I decided, and once I seen I can actually do it, and this didn't feel good. And I'm seeing what's transpiring, I'm like, I'm out. I it wasn't it wasn't a plan. It was May conversation ship by by by August. My mind was already made up regardless, and I didn't care if Lebron stayed. I didn't care who stay. I was out and I had to and I had the mentality that I was gonna build it. It just so happened that they left with me, and I was appreciative of that.
You know what, you know, I'm not breaking down. I'm not interrupting your normally scheduled programming to break news to you. You know what's being said. You know what was said. He got Lebron James. So it wasn't that he was good at what he does. Is that he just had the best player in the NBA. And everybody says, Okay, if he's that Lebron, trust him, I'll trust him.
Also.
Boy, that's bs because it actually goes the other way. In a lot of cases, it's more challenging, at least for me. Now when they have it or have him, or if you got this person, it's a different dynamic.
You can use your client list and it's to your benefit.
It's to your benefit. But when it's me and it's my client list or I got the stars, it's a detriment that comes with that.
People don't understand. It's like, oh, you had Lebron, it should be easy. No, it's actually harder.
You know why.
It's harder because we come from a place where that can only be one king. Our environment teaches us to always be competitive. There's no collaboration, there's no communication, you know, there's no connectivity that's there. There's no compounding of anything. So it actually becomes harder. And by the way, I've lost clients.
Because of this.
The person next to them feel like they're in competition with me. So no, I'm not even in that space, not in competition with me.
The position I'm in right now.
I could do anything for anybody within reason, and I want to do that. I'm not I'm not competing with other agents. I'm not competing with young, up and coming people that have a guy that want to be positioned and empowered.
I want to empower you. But they're putting out there, oh, well, you know, rich ain't gonna do this rich. See for yourself. I don't need the peanut gallery. See for yourself. And if there's a conversation that makes sense, and if it make business sense, then we can do business. But at the end of the days, it's.
Actually it works for me, its it works against you in a lot of ways.
Now, in some cases it does work for it. You don't get me wrong. When you have the talent that we have at our company, you can't deny that.
But yet, and still, unfortunately, we have to break down the psychological barriers of all.
Right.
I learned I come from it when I was young selling candy and popping beer wine at.
My dad's store.
Some people chose not to patronize with us because in their mind, if I spend my money with rich, then little rich get to Jordan's and I don't have them. So God was already preparing me for this position I'm in now. So when I see it, it don't even bother me.
When do you remember, did you know who Lebron was when you first met it? And what was your first impressions when you did meeting?
Yeah, our high schools played against each other every year, so myself and Maverick we played against each other every years, mandatory football, basketball, baseball. Our high schools played against each other every year. Bron wasn't yet Bron. They had won before, but he wasn't on the cover.
Of Sports Illustrated.
But I knew I know every kid. I knew every kid cause I'm I go to games all that. And my impression was he asked me a question about what I had on my energy was nice enough, not because I was looking for something in return. That's another thing our environment teaches us. If you give me something I get, I gotta get something in return. That's why we never build anything. That's why everyone wants to be the talent, because the talent brings forth fortunate and thing. No one ever thinks about building, and no one ever thinks about playing a different role within the ecosystem of physical therapists, you know, analysts, GM, et cetera. There's a lot of roles to play within the ecosystem, but that's not the popular role to play.
And that's why everybody can't be shot at sharp. Just can't.
Everybody ain't gonna wear that yellow jacket and go and can. But my jacket could be a difference. It may not be yellow, but that's port of Hall of Fame. But I got a jacket on.
You understand what I'm saying. So that's always been my mentality.
Why it's such a problem is that, you know, Phil Knight, Jeff Bezos. You look at some of the greatest men in the world, wealthiest men in the world, women have had someone believe in them. But it seems to be a problem that Lebron I don't know, and you don't have to address this. I don't know if he invested money, but I know he invested an opportunity.
Yeah, Lebron never gave me a dollar, and that was the that's what they wanted to put out there, right, But they didn't say that about Jeff Schwartz.
They didn't say that about Arn Teller. They didn't say that about Mark Barlestein. They didn't say those things, right, Right, what you think happened with them?
Did they?
Just what you think happened. You get what I'm saying, and I respect those guys, but but that's not what's being said.
Right.
You get what I'm saying is when they have the top player, that player don't have to own a piece of they business for them to represent them. That players represent them.
They're represented by that that that players represented by that person because that person is deemed to be capable of of doing the job.
Same for me, same for me.
I want to know this after Dan Garber said, what the hell he's saying?
Yeah, he wrote what he wrote, said Lebron quick putting that thing up in the paper, How the hell did you convince Lebron to take his ass back to Cleveland?
Legacy? About legacy?
Man, we come from a place where two brothers shoot at each other and sleep in the same bed.
What we're gonna what we're gonna set that for? You're gonna put that over your legacy?
When you Bron checked this side, bro for your legacy, I think you ought to go back to Cleveland with the title.
What Lebron said, what was his exact word to you?
He was open minded.
He was open minded, But he wasn't the first person I had a conversation I had to have a conversation with. You know, we were close, so I Savannah and I'm glow and having Randy we had to come. We talked about it and but this was but again, when you talk about this is my.
Job, this is the role I play So before you talked to bron, you talked to Savannah, you talked to Glow, you talked to Math.
In addition to talking to them, I talked to everybody.
How did Savannah feel?
Well? You know, man, man, we've been down like four fat tires for so she understood Robert because I have a perspective on it, right, and.
I don't make it about me. What I'm saying is in terms.
Of legacy, right, and we we we we identified the talent that was currently the team.
And it wasn't about winning.
I didn't know they was gonna go to the finals in the first year. That was That was all I was saying was there's an opportunity and if you're able to win, it's a rap. Nobody forget anything else. If you win a championship for the city of Cleveland and the Cleveland Cavaliers, I don't care what anybody get on any media platform and say it don't even matter. From that point on, it's all uphill.
How recept it was his mom, Gloria.
Coming from me, she understood it. She understood it, and she gonna support what he support. She understood it like a mom to me. So when I come I barely come. But when I do, I barely come to the table with anything. When I do come to the table with something, they know it's serious because I'm not coming to the table just for the sacond coming to the table.
I'm coming to the table.
I thought this through, I've strategized it. You know, it makes perfect sense, and so on and so forth. What would they allow me to do my job?
The conversation of leaving Cleveland going to La. Whose idea was that?
Well, the conversation leaving Cleveland, I mean, and I talked about this before, and I you know, people just go crazy, But the conversation was pretty simple in terms of what is it that you want to do. If you want to stay here, let's stay here. But if you want to go somewhere, your brand is here. You only got so many options, right, We wasn't going to New York, even though New York, you know, was was it was an option. But ultimately he had already had a place in LA and uh, I had the opportunity of spending a year here with because I had KCP here and getting a better understanding of the organization Magic and I talked a lot new Rob just through throughout the years, and his family wanted to be in LA and so ultimately it became an easier choice. But when we started doing the process of elimination, it's only there's only so many places to go.
And you know, LJ gets bored about things and whatnot, and people take that out of context.
But I'm just saying in terms of and I said to him, now, the only thing is we already you came back from three one, you brought a championship and either been to eight straight finals.
I think he went to eighth straight. Yeah, he went to h.
Straight Miami four in Cleveland.
Then you're coming down off that mountaintop. Now you know when we go we go to LA, it's all about championships. But all you need is one. You don't need fifteen because you ain't not gonna have the time to do that. But if you can get one, you know, and made a decision and that was and that was it, Like it's not again when I come to the table. It was something I don't come to the table that often, so when I do, it has some substance to it.
So what what is your take on the player empowerment? We see players being able to I'm not happy here. I'm going there. I'm not happy there. I'm going somewhere else. I'm not happy. There's the James Harden situation. What's your take on the hard situation?
Well, I mean, in James's case, I think from what I understand about and what he's said publicly.
I know James known him for a long time.
It's a personal thing that he feels as if something was promised, was positioned for him, and it's different. I don't know if it's totally basketball, because I know James loved the game of basketball, and you know, there's there's there's some things that probably could have take place prior to but that's up to them. I don't represent James, you know, but but yeah, it's a tough situation for him.
Man.
But ultimately, when you're in these type of situations, the one thing that's very important that I think people have to monitor and understand is your value.
Right.
You want to keep your value up, and so you think about the value coming from the extension that could have been in Brooklyn to currently now, Well, you're never gonna get that money. We don't know where that where that is rich.
You're not getting that money and for.
Me to say, I don't know where it is. I don't know, but I'm just saying.
I don't see it.
I don't I don't see him at that age wanting out of Houston, wanting out of Brooklyn, want and out of feeling and somebody trusting him to give him that much. You've represented a lot of guys and you get close, you build a relationship. But how hard is it for you to part ways with a guy or guy said, you know what, man, this is just it's not that hard.
If not, no, because at the end of the day, you have to understand you're not gonna be able to please everybody. And sometimes we could work a very very thankless job. Sometimes you could do everything right and it's not good enough. Because again, our athletes are being taught a certain way. They're being taught everybody should be doing stuff for you for free. They're being taught that come play for my AAU team. I'm gonna give you this.
Your parents can fly on us. So now you build your assage when it comes to doing business.
And it's a talent right so now if anybody has an entitlement to that talent, that's like the steering.
Wheel of the car.
So now, well, what are you doing? He's scoring the points, what are you doing. We don't only work on July first, We work all year round. But it's not looked at like that. So you have to start to distinguish and yourself from who actually values you and value your expertise, because treat me the same way you treat that person. Sit behind the counter at the Louis Vuitton cash register. They ain't giving you no discount. You ain't coming to them. You're throwing everything on and you because it costs more, and it's a thing, it's the stature thing. You want to show that you spent two hundred thousand at the store.
Right. But then when it comes to someone who.
Your percentage, they want to cut you if your percentage and.
Have that that that doesn't that don't make sense to me, right, But this is what's happening in the space and for those that for those that lead with that, because there's a lot of companies that lead with that, they do it playing on the ego that I'm so good that they want to work for less, right, because I'm so good. But when you think about life, nothing else in life works like that if you need heart surgery, you want discount. I'm just asking you got club sha, share your production crew you want, you want to just get some guys off the street.
But only in.
Sports is where they can feed the egos so much that it causes you to have bad business practice. Now people may say, oh, you're just saying that it's self serving. No, it's in anything anything you do in life that's worthy. There's no shortcut to that. Right you go up and mass you can't even buy nothing.
You want to buy that. This is no matter how much money you got. This is my point. So that's what I'm saying. But you but but when they can't get it there they go and pay what double and triple. You get what I'm saying.
So that's my thing is just about respect. I mean, I can't say what other people do and don't do. It's just but for me, it's just it's so it's not that it's not that hard. When if it's not working out, then it don't work out.
I'm gonna get you out of here on this one. And you're the closest to the story, so you would know what if with the vitriol of the older players towards Lebron. It seems like and it seems like a lot of the old players don't want to give these young this younger generation the credit that they deserve.
But it seems like a lot of the ire is pointed at twenty three.
Why do you think that is really corny?
To me? I will absolutely and I do like I said, you know, and when you're out there, you deal with certain things. It's it's it's layered in my opinion. Got to remember when Lebron came in, a lot of guys were still in the prime and all the attention turned to him in two thousand, says to all the attention boom, one hundred min dollars of contract, real hundred men, not that fluff that be going out today.
I'm talking about one hundred minion dollars contract.
Never drive with NBA basketball in the NBA, they.
Never seen nothing like that, you know, sending a private jet when he's sending the high school. We going up to New York every weekend, every other weekend with whatever. When you could you know what I'm saying, all these things, they wasn't it? And so quite naturally in the neighborhood you develop what NB. It's it's much easier for you to be like, man, that's some cold man, that's some that's player, that's real player. Man.
I appreciate that. I'm proud of you. That's the hardest thing to do. The easiest thing to do is what they do.
Ah this you know you have and then now when you give that to a media platform, and now it's even trickling down to some of the younger players just they purposely don't say his name and things, Oh I played this because of these people. But again, if you everybody didn't always had a mama mentality. The mama mentality came.
After Kobe was really done. Then all of a sudden, everybody had the mama mentality.
Because the mama. Everybody frowned the planet because they say he was ball home.
Yeah, but when he was playing, because I was there, we said he wasn't hanging out with none of these guys.
You know, you give what I'm saying.
But I'm not surprised because I come from it. I wish it was different, but I'm not surprised because I come from it. But what impresses me more is that guy don't do unto those what they do to him. His door has always been open. Every time you see somebody, man, what's up? Show love, et cetera.
Even when there's is he too nice?
Because because Jordan gave the players, he played it with him. But he.
Understand some familiarity breed disrespect. And I tell him that sometimes they can walk past somebody, don't even speak. That make that person want to speak to you more. If you speak to that person every time, it becomes And that's that's the.
Treatment that he gets.
Sometimes what I'm saying, they get on Dremond for being his friend. It's craziness, right. But but but again this is this is not about That's not an athlete thing. That's a people thing. And that's why I said what I said when we were talking on first take. We have to break those sites. I'm not gonna do unto those others as they've done to me. That's not just not what I come from, because you don't want those habits created.
So if the Jordan Lebron debate ever gonna.
End, it ain't gonna end. But Bron's a goat, Jordan a goat. Le Bron's ago.
One guy one one one guy got gold Horne. The other guy got platinum horse.
Yeah, I got a little platinum in here, but it's like platinum dog and then Bron's all platinum.
Lucky me. A memory on changing the odds, Rich Paul.
Precid, Thank you, Thank you.
All my life, all my life.
Sacrifice us, want to slice, got to brow the dice, the squad all my life.
I've been grinding all my life.
Yeah, all my life, grinding all my.
Life, sacrifice, Mussell, play the Price, want to slice, got to brow the dice, the swap all my life.
I've been grinding all my life.
M