Jamal Crawford

Published Mar 22, 2021, 10:00 AM

On episode 26, Shannon welcomes in 3-time NBA Sixth Man of the Year, league leader in 4-point plays, & the oldest player in NBA history to score 50 points in a game: Jamal Crawford. 

Jamal Crawford updates Shannon on his current status, working for an opportunity to return to the NBA. He shares stories and insights from his 20 seasons in the league, where he faced players like Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, and more. He talks about playing for the Knicks and the Clippers, including LA’s failure to make it to the NBA Finals.   

As a quintessential NBA Sixth Man and journeyman, Jamal talks Shannon through the specific role he had to play for various teams. He also discusses his infamous dribbling skills, ranks the best ball handlers in league history, and gives Shannon his Mount Rushmore of Sixth Men. 

Raised in Seattle’s active basketball community with decades of experience at the highest level, Jamal Crawford has a true passion and knowledge for the game. Don’t miss this enlightening conversation, where Jamal breaks it all down, from the beginning of his career to the present day.

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Hello, guys, I've got great news. I'm a finalist for a Shorty Award. Make sure you click the link to go vote for your boy and make sure I'll bring this award home. Thank you. Thank you again from the bottom of my heart for making club a success. Hello, I'm Shannon Sharp. Welcome to another edition of Club Shashay. I am your host, also the proprietor of Club Sha Shake and the guy that's stopping by for a drinking conversation today. Is three time NBA sixth Man of the Year. He's the all time leader in four point plays, he's the only man to drop fifty with four different teams, and he's the oldest player in NBA history to score fifty points in the ball game. Jamal Crawford all my life and grinding all my life, sacri Fice, hustle back price, one slice got the dice swathing all my life. I've been grinding in all my life, all my life and rinding all my life, sacond Fice, hustle back Price, one slice got the dice to swathing all my life. I've been grinding all my life. Jamal, How you doing, I'm good. Thanks for having me. How you doing? I'm good. I'm good, Thanks for stopping by. So what are you currently doing? Remote schooling is getting most of my attention to start. You know, I got three younger kids in the house and my schedule is based around them. So you know, once they get settled and get everything going, me my wife split it up and then I get to work it out and then just doing my thing I do in the community. So and still watching some ball, but you know, those are my main focuses right now. So are you done with ball or would you like to get an opportunity to come back and play? Yeah, I would love to get an opportunity to come back and play. You know, I'm working like a you know, opportunity is there, and if it doesn't happen, I'm doing it for me anyway, just love of the game, you know, and nothing can replace that feeling. I think I can still help, to be honest with you, But you know, vets are having a tough time getting back in right now, so I'm trying to be patient and look at the glasses have full. So even after twenty years, you played twenty seasons, you've accomplished probably more than you thought you would at this point, and you still want more, You still have that, you still have that drive to say, you know what, I can still help a team. Absolutely, I would be playing whenever it's a fish all retire, I'll be playing after that. I'll be at the LA Fitness or a twenty four hour fitness around you. So I definitely played somewhere just love of the game. That's the only thing that's about for me at this point. So you want to continue to play, so only for a contender or you just want to get back in the league to play to show you still can, or does it need to be for the contender. No, I would love to play for a contender, But obviously, you know, it's not always about the destination. Sometimes the journey, and I went through it in Phoenix, having a younger squad and seeing guys like Devin Booker and DeAndre eight and Kail Bridges and really, you know, really being there for those guys, guys like t J. Warren and seeing that they you know, have that vet in the locker room things they may have not have known, things that can learn, the things that can carry for the foundation of their career. I had the same thing when I was playing with Scottie Pippen or Charles Oakley, and I can learn how to be a pro until I have pros around me and those vets around me learned that being on time is being early as a young player staying late. So if you can build those good habits for a younger team as well, you know, I'm all for it. So what is the age that Jabal will officially retire or is there an age or you just like, you know what, because it seems to me you still have the passion and you said even after you're done, you're still gonna play. So what's the the endpoint? What's the what's the time that you says, Okay, I'm done with NBA basketball. I still might play at lifetime or twenty four hour worry about, but I'm done with the NBA. I'm not sure, to be honest with you. I think last year I was getting to that point, you know, and seeing how things are going with Mellow and that just broke my heart. And then you know, there's a lot of people that kind of want to see him out the league, you know, and said he was too old or he wasn't this for that, but he reinvented himself. He stayed patient and when I was losing my faith, that really restored it. And then getting a call from Brooklyn, you know, going through those practices and playing that one game, it basically solidified what already knew I could do on the court and just need the opportunity. You know. It didn't last long, unfortunately, but for me, I think after this year, I have to visit and kind of see who we're at and if nothing happens, and kind of make that decision there. You mentioned Mellow reinventing himself, But the thing that you've always done, Jamal, you were willing. You've always accepted your role. You're like, Okay, I'm gonna come up the bench. I'm fine with that. I don't think Mellow in the beginning accepted that role that teams wanted him to come up the bench, and he saw himself as Nuggets Knicks Mellow, But that's not how teams needed him. They didn't need a Knicks Nuggets Mellow. And you've mentioned he reinvented himself. It wasn't until he accepted the role. I'm coming up the bench, I'm gonna get shots, like we have to be more of a catch and shoot, guy, I'm not gonna get the post stuff that I normally get is that we used to finally start to see he can actually help a team. He can definitely help a team in the situation, especially like when okay, see you know, I think that's where it kind of started, right as far as like you know, Ken, we using this way as he opened the different things and if he looks if you go back and look, that was probably the least. Now he actually had the ball, so I think he bought in then. And then when he went to Houston, you know, they don't like mid range shot said it's more threes or less. And Melo strength is, you know, being a bully in the mid post serial, right, I think he was open to it, and he didn't look good in that situation, and you know, knowing him a little bit, I know that he was willing to do whatever if they just straight shooters have a conversation with him. And then when he gets this situation in Portland that fits into a team, they need him. They he embraced him. He said, you know what, I trust you guys. I know you're gonna do right by me in my career without accomplished so I had no problem being a sixth man and coming off, and he probably just looked himself as a sixth starter, you know, when he gets out there, especially c J being out recently, he's has some huge games. He has has it obviously Dames, you know, score fifteen and went crazy, but Mellow's had some games that have really kind of helped them get over that hump. But they need that additional score. So I'm so happy for him because if you really look at it, he's really the only post up players. They don't have a big They can dump the ball down to the post and they go get me a bucket. Mellow is that guy, you know, Dame if spectacular is he's a little small to be posted up. That's really not CJ's cancer. Is really not a post player. So if you look at it, memo is really they're only post up guy. Yeah, it's a perfect situation for him. They really embraced him. I don't think they used when you didn't do well against him, you know, try to hold that against him. And I think he's been able to flourish. I think he's fresh mentally, you know, I even see him duncan now even if it's just one of us double pumped backward. It's not said even be a good place this. So how does because clearly you could have been a starter, how were you? Why? Why were you so willing to embrace Okay, this is the role they see me in. Let me embrace this. Get the job done, and you've made you arguably the greatest this man in NBA history. Why were you so willing to embrace that role when you can drop fifty on a given night and knowing that you're good enough to be a starter. To be honest with you, I got to point in my career that I was tired of losing. You know, I was a year ten at average, I think twenty points accumulaively for three straight years, and I didn't want to be that guy who was a good player on bad teams. He's a good player of he's just putting up numbers on bad teams. So I didn't want to be that guy. I've always won there since I was a kid. I went when I was in high school, win a championship, won in college the games I played, and I didn't want to be that guy at that time, they kind of put you in a box. You know what I mean, Like, he's that guy. So I said, you know what, I'll do whatever it takes. I got traded to Atlanta. I remember meeting with Rick Sun, their president, and he was like, you know what, we just went to the playoffs. We have our starting five in place, but you could still have a huge role for us come off the bench. And I was like, you know what, I'm confident enough for myself and I'm more I'm all about the team. Whatever you guys want, I'll do it. And so I didn't know that the second half of my career that would kind of take all the life of this all. It's cool to go to camps and being gyms and kids especially it looked like me coming from my communities or like, you know what, it's always about starting. It's cool to be a sixth man, you know, because they said they had you nobodies and they had the Jason tries. But for whatever reason, it really resonated with him when I did it, you know, and I think that's that's really cool and I'm happy with the way it's turned out. Did did you ever go to a situation you're like, but the guy that started, I'm better than him. He should be coming off the bench, I should be starting. I never like that, to be honest with you. I just always said, you know what, this role following us, you big needs a little used, you know. And and even as a sixth man, my teammates, the coaches, they treated me like a starter. They treated me like that same respect, you know. So I never looked at like that. I had to trick myself, you know, when I first did it, because I had never come off the bench up at that point. So I said, you know what, Mentally, I said, Okay, Superman is coming again. They're just getting it warmed up for Superman, you know. So I would do things like that to kind of trigger myself, to give myself that edge coming into the game. But I never looked at it like that. I always looked at it like, you know what I'm providing. All the great teams had a sixth man from Genoa to Pierce, Ricky Pierce, to Kevin McHale back in the day, you know, almost Microwave, right, So all those guys Jason Terry with Dallas, I said, okay, you know what, all these elite level teams have a guy with that that brings that punch off the bench, and I have no problem doing that when I was When I played, I wasn't the starter, but I felt that I wasn't a start at first, and then I've worked. I went to starting lineup, but I felt coming off the bench it gave me a sense of the game. I gotta feel exactly what what I needed to do once I got into the game. Is that how you looked at it, because you gotta feel you're coming in and about six seven minutes into the ball game, you get a sense of the flow. You get a sense of how the refs are calling the game, what you what exactly you need to do in order to help your team win on that given night. You know that that's exactly what I was doing. I'm telling Chris or Joe Johnson at the time in Atlanta, like, Okay, when you play pick a role, they're coursing to your left and then the second guy, it's gonna rotate. So I'm giving them things to look at it and knowing when I get in the game, I don't have to go through that because I'm watching them go through the right right in time, I see that I'm the primary scorer. I know the defense is gonna shift me when I come in the game. They know what I can come in the game to do. So I'm watching how they're playing different things. Who I should put in, pick a role, who do I want to get a shot, how they're gonna do it all they're tracking the second rotation, it's time, okay. So I'm watching all these things and download it so I know when I come in the game, I hit to go running. And my coaches and teammates, I think it gave them a comfort as well because it starters. You know, you may get off to a slow start. Sometimes I'm looking for that bench to come give you that m that night when you're in your fourth game of five nights in Milwaukee or Denver or wherever it might be, to kind of get things back roll and get over the hump. How do you maintain your confidence because you're you know, you're, you're, you're coming off the bench and your job is delighted up and all of a sudden that light that that particular night you don't have it. How do you maintain confidence for the next night and the next night Because you have a specific role. Your role is to give us buckets off the beach. And you know what the other teams and that's my specific role too, so they're trying to stop that, right. So for me, I just I think work ethic eliminate spear. I've always been a student, and I've never been to know at all. I've always been a guy trying to learn. You know, I don't care who it was from, you know, a person on the street, a person who's worth the billion dollars. I'm always trying to learn educate myself. I did the same thing with basketball. I watch a lot of films, watch a lot of tape, see how I can be better. And so for me, I was always playing the game within the game and not just looking at the surface level stuff but digging deeper to see how I can be affective for my team. And it worked out for me. When do you know that you got it going on a particular night? Is it is it a field? Is it like the first two or three shots going in? When do you know if like you know what y'all in trouble to night? If you know it's funny if I hit the first two shots, if I had the first shot, oh it's over. I'm not like, hey, bring the band out. Bringing it's party time now because hey, I'm telling you, and now with social media, everything's being documented in real time. So I know if I do a crazy move and a shot, it's like, I feel like I'm a monster. I just get bigger and bigger and bigger on the court, you know. So for me, that first shot, I could my high scoring game my career. I scored fifty two against the heat. Right, I missed my first four shots, but they felt good and they feel good from that point on to the third court. In the first court of third quar I didn't miss a shot. I hit sixteen straight shots down the court. But I felt it even when I was over four, you know what I mean. So it's just funny. Sometimes players may feel it, but they don't get the opportunity to get to the you know that the rest of the game and may come out there on the short lease. You just never know how things go. But but for me, I can tell when that first mate goes and I'm like, oh, it's can be a long night there. It's funny that you say that that your best night you had scoring wise, you miss your first four shots. Me, I just needed to catch the ball. Sometimes I just called the ball and went down because in my mind, I don't want that to creep in up showing you dropped it. You dropped it. They know it. And so now they're gonna throw tugging and pulling at the ball, bumping you a little bit more to make you lose confidence. How do you I mean, how do you like? Because you say, you know I missed those shots, but they still they felt good. They felt good. And before I know it, I'm driggling the ball and I'm skipping down the court. I'm coming down with a ring on the box and I don't even know I'm doing it. It's just the moment and the feeling of it. Right. So once I do that, I'm in the game. And once I'm in the game, I think anything can happen, and it can change the course of the game. You can. You may hit a half course shot. It was worth three points, but it was worth so much more than that. When the crowd's going crazy and your teammateser into it, it gives you a hold, the juice, a holding life. So yeah, you're right. We see these guys with tremendous handles. Now we see Steph Curry patting the rock. I think Kyrie Irvin have to have the best handles that I've ever seen. And I've seen from Rod Scrinkland to Isaiah Thomas and yourself had crazy handles. Step on, Marlberry, where would you put your handles? And when it comes to handles with guys being able to not only just we've seen guys handle the balls, but they can't shoot. We've seen guys can shoot, they can't handle the ball. But you were a combination. Where would you rank your handles? I hate talking about myself, to be honest, but I would say it. I would say I'm top tier. If there was a top shelf of drinks, I don't drink to the top shelfter drinks. I'll be on that top shelf. You want to top yop I love Okay, give me, okay all time. Give me your four top handles of all time. Not include myself. I'm not gonna include myself. I'm not gonnakay. I'm gonna put Isaiah Thomas. Okay, I'm gonna put Kyrie. Okay, I'm gonna put white cho white chocolate. Okay, ja jaon, yeah, yeah, you see I got him my poster up there He's right. If I knew the white Tocolate and I gotta put oh the slashing Alan Iverson slash Rod Strickland slash Nick Naxell slash very slash step on Ballberry, I'm putting the ball in the atlas and Chris slash Chris Paul. I gotta because I think the thing is that when we see guys with handler. It's one thing to have handlers, because we've seen guys at the park that have handlers and can't shoot a lick. But the way these guys can handle the ball and still get their shot off, that's what's most impressive to me is that I've seen great shooters, but they need someone to pick for him. But they have to come up screens or they have to you know, But these guys can handle the ball. Kyrie and Steph Curry, they got the way they can handle the ball and get that shot up. Dame, I forgot about Dame Lillard. Dave skip to my loop, you got you got, I got some my move you got a lot of people. Yeah, But I think, like you said, the difference is, especially in today's game, if you can dribble the ball and you can shoot your guardable because the physicality you can't get too close. Somebody can jiggle right right, But she came back up and let them shoot either. So if you can do both, you know you walking into twenty five points a game if you have the freedom to do it. What do you think about what you see with these guys shooting these logo threes. I watched Dane and I watched DEEPH. Curry shoot logo threes like they're shooting free throws. Did you ever think the game would morph into what it's become? Not at all? Because when I came in the game, Uh, you know, it was specific positions. Right. If you was a point guard, I don't care if he was the best shoot in the world. You gotta get that wing score of the ball. First throw it, you better throw it in the shot right right. I don't care who you want. So if you look at a guy like Ray Allen, who's the best shooter until step right to five threes a game? Right, because you know what I mean? So the game is morphed and changed. And to see step to see dang, see trade, to see all these guys shooting it from logos, They're just they're making their teammates better too. Even though they're they're they're shooting the logo, they're making their teammates better because they're providing space when you have space and you can't touch. Now, the game is just unlocked. And to see that and see these kids working on that, I was born, you know, fifteen years too early, because I would really enjoy this because when you look at it, you guys took those shots. It was the end of the quarter, it was the end of the half, it was it was late in the shot clock. You're trying to beat the shot clock. These guys are taking the shots that you took at the end of the half, the end of the game, late in the shot clock. They're taking that shot with eighteen seconds in the shot clock. They're taking that. They're taking that shot. They'll come down, They'll come down a three on one and launch of twenty eight foot three point. Yeah, you know what the worst shot in basketball was when I came in and off the dripping three. They said, you can get that shot with five seconds on the clock. Why are you coming down shooting that shot? Now? People didn't think you can win to being a shoot jump shoot team took go to six changing, right, So now you know, fifteen twenty years later, the game was just a lot. It's like everybody has free to shoot. They can expand and see how far they can go with it. I mean, now you've got guys, like you said, pulling up right inside half for it seconds on the clock, you know, and that's unlocking the game. We hadn't seen this before. Nobody said to have that freedom and then to take the game of that kind of level so unbelievable places right now. Yeah, what I saw with the All Star Game with Dame and Steph that was ridiculous. That was the greatest shooting performance that I've ever seen in the game. I'm watching guys take one step across half court shoot the ball like it's their normal shot, and they splashing it. What Dame did the end of the the game, he scored the last eleven for for Lebron's team that won, and the last shot of the game, he walks one step cross half court and shoots it. They're like, okay, Steph Curry is already waving by. And the confidence to shoot like that, right, because I mean, even that confidence to do that, you have to be so heightened heightened confidence. It has to be through the roof, right, you know, to shoot that shot and not say, oh man, my teammate, even though I have the freedom teammates, so let me be crazy. You know what am I doing this for? But these guys are taking it to a new level and it's just fun to sit back and watch. When when you realize and it's probably I don't know if it's ever gonna be done again. A guy plays with four different teams and he's able to score full fifty with four different teams. What do you remember about each fifty point game in those in the specifics of the team. The first one with the Bulls, it was roaming the drafts. You looked this up roaming the drafts, he says, my last game on the beat, this pre game. You know you're doing scrum, He says, my last game on the beat, you could score. Go give me fifty a night. And I looked in our turned serious. So I'm gonna get fifty to night. And I wouldn't got fifty in Toronto. And I remember I was wearing some s dot carters and jay Z texted me after the game said it must be the shoes, you know. So that was the second one was against Miami and they had just won the championship. And like I said, I missed the first four shots, and then I score forty two straight points whereout the missed. So it was like it was like a video game. I was coming down. I hit sixteen straight shots at one game, and at those sixteen, eight of them with threes, Like I was, that was the hottest night of my life to me. If I would stay I came out with seven minutes ago, so if I would stayed in, it probably would have been like sixty five. I believe you know. That was probably the hottest night. The third one was again Charlotte, and that was maybe the easiest one to be honest. I shot a lot of free throws. I shot eighteen free throws, and I had a rough game the night before in Atlanta, and I remember don Nielson said, you know what, we're not having shoot around and sleeping all day. I slept all day and had fifty. The last one was probably the most impressive personally, because that's what people are like, Oh, he's year nineteen, he can't do this no more, you know, doing it on Dirk's night, of course, and everybody's there watching all the legends there, Charles barking everybody there, and to do it off the bench. And I've been come off the bench for over a decade and I had really good games games. I'm like, man, if I was starting this to be fifty, they had the opportunity to do that, To score fifty off the bench and five assists and five rebounds, it would have been unbelievable to win. That's the only game I ever score fifty and loss, but on Dirk's night to celebrate with him, it was. It was unbelievable feeling when you hit the sixteen straight shots? Had you ever been that hot before? And had you ever been that hot? Since? I had never been that hot before. I may hit ten in a row, they miss one, They hit another two and miss one and miss not sixteenth straight. It felt like I could have kicked it up there. You know. That was that was the mina, the heat. They just won the championship the year before. It was that open to night that you got do it now. It wasn't open to night. It was it was in January, I believe, okay January, but they had just won a year before, you know, so when they come in town, the guard it's it's a show. You got Watt, Yeah, it was a show. Yeah, you you played. You played last year for like with Brooklyn, you mentioned when they went down into the bubble, you had a five You had a five point game in five minutes. Did playing in that situation lead you to believe that, you know what I can can see. I can still play. I can still give somebody fifteen minutes a night and maybe give them double digit points. I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you two things to that. Absolutely, I went to practice. I got there late. I went to practice, and practice looked just like the game did. Now. I didn't want to just come back against anybody Milwalke at the time it is number one of the East. I said, I want to come back against somebody nice. So for that five minute stretch it was I mean I had five points and three assists five minutes right, and the whole game the complexion game change. And for my team base, it was what they had seen in practice. The crazy part about the hamstring was the hamstring. And I'm telling you this, I've never said it. The hamstring happened in the weight room. I never left weights. I'm notorious from lifting not lifting weights and just gonna, you know, do my routine and go do my thing. But here I am being blessed enough to get a call to the new teams and I'm not doing the weight but I'm not doing that, and you know I left. I guess just that was too quick a turnaround from the weights to not playing for sixteen months, to the weights to right to the game. But now I feel great now, And yeah, it confirmed what I believe I knew previous previous season. I'm looking at you, and I'm looking at you. Played a lot of different teams. You mentioned the Bulls, you mentioned Toronto, you mentioned you, So you played with a lot of great players, the Clippers. When you around those great players, I mean, what is you? How do you like? I guess it's different from basketball because you know you're trying not to step on anybody told but I got a job to do here. I also got a job. I understand you are who you are, but I got a job to do. How do you? How do you manage that? Because from what I see and from what I hear, basketball player egos are a lot different than football players egos. Well, I was less play some great superstars every superstar playing with and every star player play with empower them. They said, no, no, no no, you do what you do. You know, if you look back at the Clippers, I was there five years. We had two superstars and Chris Paul and Black Griffin. Then DeAndre Jordan became a star. For five years, I was top five in the league and fourth quarter scoring in the whole league when I was with the Clippers. So they empowered me to say, you know what, we're superstars. We're gonna do our thing. We're gonna leave it scho you know, the fourth court of your time. So they never tried to say slow down or any of that. They empowered me and wanted me to be better because they feel I can help our TV be better. So I was. I was blessed players some great great players you mentioned. I mean, playing with so many great players and there they're empower you. So when you say they empower you, how would someone not empower you to do your job? And what can a superstar do to like guys don't feel comfortable being themselves. Well, for me, in my game, you've seen I take some crazy shots. So if they come off and say, hey, hey man, you can slow down. You know, then it's gonna get me thinking, you know. And the worst thing, especially a basketball player, a shooter could do is think. So you know, if they gets you thinking, then now you're like, oh, no, men going this way. Now you're not aggressive. And I've never been a defender to that degree. So I'm gonna be on the bench by maybe something happening offensive, you know. And they've always said, no, no, go be that attacker. Go be that guy that you know, kind of like not our secret weapon, but you know, one of our guns, and gonna make it happen. They've always done that in most coaches I played forever done that, especially a guy like Doc Rivers. He never held what I didn't do well against me. You always empowered me as well, and I think that helped me in my career as well. Why weren't you guys able to get it done with the Clippers? You mentioned you have Blake Griffin, you have Chris Paul, who's one of the premium point guards who's gonna be all time great. You have DeAndre Jordan, a buttons super star at the time. Why weren't you guys able to get the ball across the road? I mean crossed the Phenis line. I think it was two things. I think one, we had some bad breaks, you know, in the five minute stretch in the playoffs. At one point Chris, I think he Blake breaks his hand. I think Chris fools a hamstringer's you can go. Look, we're playing the Portland Truble Bladies Rup two on the series. This is a five minute stretch. There was some other injuries. But to be very very honest, I think we weren't mentually ready to take that step. I think at the time we were all thinking about our youth off. We don't get it done this time, don't want to get it done, don't get it the first time. We got time on our sides right, and you look at it seemed like even okay, see at the time when they played Miami in the finals, it took years for even one of those guys to get back to the finals. Between the drell rust working hard, you know. So I think we weren't mentally ready to take that next step, and I think in the end it costs us. But people talk about the the butting of the heads between Chris, Paul and Blake. Did you notice it? Did you notice it? Did you feel like there is tension between those two guys because superstars normally somebody has to say take a back seat with Jordan, Pipp Pipping knew, I ain't I ain't better than Jordan. I'm cool. But Shaq and Colby had some tension because Kobe like hold off, bruh, Hey, I'm level. So for us it was interesting because it was weird because not just those two. You can pick up on little things here there throughout our tea, right. We never never just addressed it. We never just addressed it, dealt with I don't know because off the court we were cool. Everybody was cool, right, but we never addressed it head on. And I think that was the rule of the problems is when it gets tough and now somebody say something, you don't know what kind of places coming from, because you guys have never addressed it head on. What's your faith? What you say? But home right? Right right? But you got tenure, that's where you supposed to step in because you were there. I mean you you were were at that time. You had been in the league six seven, eight years. Absolutely, Why didn't you Why didn't because you the og? Why didn't you pull CP aside, Why did you pull a Blakers aside? Why did you guys go to dinner? And says God, look in order up In order for us to get to ultimately where we need to be, we gotta be together, and we're not. We had those meats, we had those talks. We definitely have them, you know, but it just we never all and it wasn't just those two. We've never all got on the same page. If you look, and I'm telling you that for that five year stretch, I think we were third or fourth of the league and wins like we were winning a bunch of games, but when it counted, either be bad luck or us never addressing what was really going on, the elephant the room through all of us, it didn't happen. And that's something I think if you look back on now, we all regret. Did you know, dude, we know what the elephant in the room is. Where they buying for? Okay, this is my team, No, this is my team. No, this is my team. I was here the longest. I'm the best player. What is it? That's the thing. Like both of them was very comfortable who they were. If you look at that time, they both were probably top two or three with Lebron and Kdi that had the most commercials out there. So it wasn't like this is my team this It was just a weird dynamic. And like I said, just wasn't those two. It's spread throughout the team and we never got on the same page and it always came to a hall we're in the toughest moments in the playoffs because sometimes when you have situations like that, the teams end up choosing sides. You get if you got a fifteen man locker room and you got two superstars to you know, half of the guys going with him and have the guys over there, and that serves no purpose for anyone, No, not at all. But that wasn't the issue. We were both Everybody was cool with both of them, like they brought good dudes. We It was cool with everybody. That's why it's so weird. It wasn't like, man, this was going on, we gotta handle this and the these two and it wasn't like that, like they were very cordially they would talk everything is cool. But it was just something bubbling throughout our team that we didn't address and it costs us by the one your Phoenix. You mentioned book You mentioned Britt, you mentioned the guys, some of the guys DeAndre Ayton, that guys that you played with. When we talk about Devin Booker, everybody says that we saw the seventy point game that he had. Did you know he had that anything? You know? I didn't know about booking to our song him. I didn't know that winning mattered to him as much as it did. And what I mean by that is I looked at him from a distance, like, Yeah, he's putting up all these points and they're losing every game, right, He's scoring a bunch of losing. But then once I got next to him and we start playing one on one every day and we start talking the game and seeing how competitive he was even with practices of scrimmage, I'm like, oh, this was a dog, Like he's gonna be just fine when when the pieces around him are set up a proper way, right, and now they're reaking the benefits of it well, CP coming he changed the whole complexion along with their growth in terms but getting the money, William, He's getting You know, coaches like that vet, coaches who are stable and know who they are along with what's going on. It's no surprise that we're doing well. How would you describe your play? Are you better suited to play with younger players because they're gonna listen to it, or older players? Are you just I mean you like I roll with the punches. That's what That's what I'm most proud about my career. I could adjust. I've had twenty different coaches. So imagine you when you go to college, right or your first four years. You got one coach He's like, you know what, I want you to number one? To see The second coach is like, nah, next year. Now, I want you to be number two next year. Like now you're caught the bits too. Next like you might be a tight end. You just have to adjust and it just the whole time, and never lose yourself and still be true to who you are, still find a way to make it happen. That's what I'm most proud about. Something for me, I think an older team would lead on me more to make it happen on the court. I think the younger team will probably lead on me more off the courts to make it happen. Do you have a hook you ever says something to tick you off, like, ru let me do me. Yeah, I've had some coaches. I've had some coaches. I play. I played crazy style, and I get it. I'm an acquired taste. My style isn't for everybody. Everybody, No, I'm not for everybody. You ain't gonna eat the hot sauce on your pancake, whatever it might be. I get it. So for me, you know, I just tried to learn about myself. Is I usually have more fun and more success with guys who actually played that I'm playing for them because they know you can go for three or four. They turned around, you know, they know that some guys that haven't played maybe not know that. The field of the game all He's off tonight, he missed two shots. I'm like, no, I'm just getting in the game. Now I'm getting out of it. So yeah, I've had that happened before, and I'm just trying to adjusting roll with the punches. Let's talk about Doc. Doc had great success in Boston. He moves to La. You guys are having success with the Clippers, but for whatever reason, as you mentioned, he's not able. Even after getting Kawaii, after getting Paul George, bringing on some other guys, he's not able to get it over the Finnish line. They have a three one league. They're up by double digits in all those games, five, six, and seven. They don't get it done. He moves on. Are you surprised that he wasn't able to get it done with last year's roster? And what do you think about the job he's doing in Philly right now? Yeah, I'm surprised. Being a three one, I just knew they'd find a way to gay, you know. But it's it's a slippery slope. It's a it's a touchy thing because now if you lose that one, I'm picked up three one one and lost, you know. And we we played Houston, we lost and was down three, it was up three two. It was like, oh, we're gonna fish at home. We're up in game six, nineteen fourth quarter, nineteen to fourth quarter at home. You can simulate that one hundred times and ninety nine times, and they work in our favor and that bigby the one time it did right, and they're best player. James Harden didn't play one second in the fourth quarter, so they came back with Prigioni, John Smith, Jason Terry, Corey Brewer and Dwight how Right. So I've been in that locker room in that situation before it's three one sounds like a why margin. But after three two, now they start getting faith. We ain't got none to lose, man, I mean, look, Lebron and those guys did it. It's the Warriors, right, you know what I mean in it, And when it gets game seven, everybody's tight, you like off Man like they got momentum. So I was surprised I didn't finish it. Seeing the job he's doing in Philadelphia, I'm not surprised because I knew if anybody can get Ben Simmons and Embed on the same page and get that team believing and get them over the hump. I remember texting them like, all you're gonna take them to the next level. I just knew it. I know he's saying, no, it's about I know how you get to everybody to buying the team, and that's exactly thing. But it seemed to me that on Doc's exit the Superstars, they threw Doc under the bus. Is that? And what I'm seeing now as they play, maybe it's the same things you're seeing in clutch situations. They can't get stops defensively and they can't execute offensively, the same thing that happened in that three one league. Yeah yeah, And you know at the regular season, especially when you come to a new teams got building, those happens. I remember Dogs always saying it'll be game you know, thirty five, and playing in Utah. It's like, yeah, it worked tonight, but it's not gonna work in the Western Conference, Semis, it's not gonna work in the playoffs, you know. So he's always thinking long term. So I'm gonna give the benefit of the doubt, especially until I see them under that fire right now. You know, they still figure stuff out. They still got another half of the season. I wouldn't see where they're at when the playoffs come around and see if the Justice Ama but the two the two superstars, what are they figure it out? You're like, okay, put the ball in the basket. Okay. Now, I was told I don't know if you heard this. Also, you're talking about the two greatest wing defenders, says Pip and Jordan, and I see Luca on a condo line. I see Bradley Beal. You can't be a defensive team if you let the Stars go get ten fifteen points over the season average. You're absolutely right, You're absolutely right. But Luca did it last night too. And oh so that's what I need to hear you say. I wasn't in that particular locker room, so I don't know exactly, but I'm sure when it's when it's time to play the blame game, it's easy to find that. You know. I think it's a combination everybody. I think it's a combination to everybody. I've always said that a team to lose the tick. But you can't let Luca do that. The rest of let Luke do it. No, But but the rest of the league ain't got the best two best wing defender, Saint Jordan pill That's true. Sometimes people got your number though you know it maybe just a certain matchup and I didn't want Tatum. Jason Tatum got the number two. That's a bad boy. That's another bad boy. K Kyrie. I say, I know a lot of people got that they list They need to get a listed number because the re pumbling, because that was just dialing them up. But one thing we do know, it's why it's almost like a robot. You know, he's gonna be there. You know, he's crudely. He got two championships. He's a lockdown defender. When it's time to be there, he would be. Are we sure about this? Not see? I think you're talking about the chair from San Antonio. We haven't seen that guy. Well in Toronto, we saw that guy. No, no, no, no, we saw we saw them build a wall. We saw Katie get hurt. We saw Clay Thomas and get hurt. We hadn't seen Kay. We haven't seen Kawhi fit in that chair in the long time. Gold On Now we just talked about how the league is now. You can't attention no more. So it's gonna take a wall to stop anybody anyway these days now anyway, man, So you who you like? Who you like in the West? Then you like the Clippers, you like the Lakers, You're like Utah, you like the Nuggets, like I like the Lakers in the West. I like the Lakers in the West. I like Brooklyn and the East. I think that's the I think that's the finals matchup. That's my friend. I think that's the matchup everybody wants to see. That's the one everybody wants to see. So fingers crossing. Both of those guys do what they're supposed to do and they get where we see these guys at the highest level. What's your favorite team you played on. I would say the Clippers and the Knicks. And the Knicks we weren't the good at the time, but there's nothing like playing the Garden and it's like you're on stage performing. I remember one game, Samuel Jackson came in the game and I wasn't playing. He was a cross court and I had a suit on him. Sit, well, you ain't playing, I said my hand. I was on my hand, like I'll only come to watch you play. So just moments like that, you don't forget. You can't. You can't duplicate that energy that's in the Garden anyway. And then the Clippers because I feel like we should I'm not saying we should have won a championship, but I feel like we should at least make the finals one two times, even though you weren't the energy. Because everybody understands the Garden. We understand what happens in the garden, just not basketball game. You have any performing concerts and Kevin Hart selling out comedy show boxing matches, Yeah, right, So you have so much of in the history of the Garden. Do you believe if you guys, one of you guys had gotten to an NBA gotten to the finals on that team, you guys have been rock stars, celebrities. We walked on air, You would literally walk on their Screenwale came even walking around New York right now. That was twenty years ago when they went to the final. So yeah, I think we'd be walking on air. We wouldn't pay for any meals, any anything in town forever. Donald Sterling, you were there, Yeah, we all here. Look, I live in la now and there's not very many buildings that you can pass, specially here in Beverly Hills and on Wilshire that doesn't have Sterling on it. So we know he's a big presence. Did you know you heard you a thing? But did you know it was to that extent in which he did not like Blacks? No, I had zero idea. Obviously, I heard he was different, you know, he's low weary, had these weird white parties and things that nature. I heard all that and even like, but he wasn't present with our team in my years there before he got you know, removed he came in the locker room one time, so it wasn't like he was in across the work, but he wouldn't say nothing, right. We saw him lock room one time, so when we heard that this could potentially come out, we were like, Okay, well he's already a little weird, a little different, so wouldn't he say that's without us knowing what was said? Right then when we hear the tapes, now it's taking on a whole different life of the own. You know. Now, at the time, social media just kind of started, and you had people giving their opinion about what they should do and what you should do, and this is y'all's moment, this is y'all's you know, you gotta take a stand. And we even had some players from Golden States say, hey, if you guys don't want to play, we won't play either, you know. So it was it was deep and when we had do that and time, but he didn't need to be there anyway with those kind of thoughts. Nobody knew it was that degree of that level. Are you surprised the NBA took the steps that it that it took in order to remove him. No, if you look at at the NBA. They've always kind of been the leader things in this world, you know, and Adam is unbelievable. He doesn't even just feel like a commissioner. He feels like someone you could talk to, someone that's really gonna listen to listen to yeah, and listen to what's best for the league and your concerns and trying to rectify that. So I had no idea that it was gonna go that fast, but he made it happen and we were able to breathe a little bit as it did happen at fast. You were in Minnesota with Jimmy Butler, cat call, Anthony Towns Andrew Wiggins. Yeah, we want to know about what really happened at the practice because we got this and pieces here and somebody said this over there. I need to know the people really wouldn't know what really happened and how did it happen at the practice. I was gone at that point. Remember only say it one year, okay, But Jimmy called me said, man, if you could have been at this practice here, they said, he came in there. He came to the practice, I believe after it got started, and they were kind of shocked to see because I think he's come on from jis Son. He came in there and I'm gonna say the coldest part, and I don't know Jimmy said this. I think he had his Rolex on while he was killing everybody's I think he had a Rolex watch on while he was killing people. Pick him apart and practice they walked off again. It was classic from when I heard. So why didn't Jimmy, like you said, you're an acquired tasting. Yeah, listening to Jimmy watching Jimmy, Jimmy is also an acquired tasting. But you would think if something tastes good, you were like, Okay, I'm gonna at least try it. Why don't you think Jimmy worked in Minnesota? I think Jimmy, knowing him and playing with him, Jimmy is all about hard work. He's all about getting better. He's all about team and if he doesn't feel that from everybody, then he's already rubbed off the wrong way. You gotta remember, Jimmy's a self made superstar Juco. You know, had to really grind, if you know the situation when he had to come up through, he wasn't one that was you know, proligy as a kid and like knew what this was gonna be. He made himself there even when he came to Chicago. He's a defender first. He got made it bright being a defender. So he respects the grind. I say that to say that he respects the grind. He respects the game, he respects people that put the work in, and he respects no agendas. It's all about winning. And when he went to Miami, I told him, I said, you were built from Miami and twenty years ago you didn't even know it. But the way everything you stand for and what you're about and how they go about their business, he was a minding he player, So I think those things roughed him the wrong way. If he sees anybody not fall on the line with all those things, you don't have to be perfect, you don't have to make every shot. You gonna try hard, you're gonna put your team first, and you're gonna work hard. And if you don't do those things, Jimmy's often let's talk about some of your teammates. And when I when I mentioned your name, you tell me the first thing that comes to your mind. Okay, Nate, Nate Robinson character character. I played with Nate in high school. Then I played with him again in the NBA character. He was the same Nates, the same as six in the Morning, as the sixth of Night. He's a character. Let mess you one thing about Nate. Why didn't you call Nate and say, Nate, don't you get your ass in that ring? You? Hey? You know what Nate was basketball state, clearer of your football state, clear of your until this day, owns the fastest time to the herbs. They can do anything. But when I told him, is that day. I said, look, when you go in there, man, you gotta be calm. You gotta be calm, you gotta main come, you know, boxing just watching I'm not a box I would never go in there, but just watching. They always look at Floyd may Weather. He don't even start really getting into it to round three or four when he's dissecting. He's I mean, he's the best. But I told Nate just to be calm, just be calming. And when he went out there, it was like he was moving so fast, you know. But I would never bet against Nate, but I didn't. I didn't like to see what I saw there at all. But but here's the thing. You wouldn't bet against Nate in something basketball, maybe football related, maybe track and field. You put somebody in an unfamiliar environment. I wouldn't bet against a lion. But if I put a line in water and says, okay, beat the crock a dollar, beat this alligator, I'm taking an alligator. I'm taking the animal that's in his habitat. You're actually right. I thought, honestly, I thought it was more charity. I didn't know there was really getting damn boxing like that. Like I thought it was a cherity type. It was real. It was real. But how you fight for charity? You know? You know what I'm saying. They're like, oh they will play fight. They don't play fight. We either do this though we don't. Yeah, I learned that watching it. Now, you man that that was crazy. That was crazy, and it was Snoop starts singing. It just made it way worse bad fo bout his bad slop some with Snoop said, oh lord, yeah, I got I got talked to Snoop about that one. But now it was I mean, but the thing about Nate, Nate believes he could jump over tall buildings and he's done that. He's proving that. So the ain't no back down anything at all. And I respect that part of one for sure. Of all your teammates, who talked the most trash, oh that's good talk. The most trash out of all of them, maybe Rick Brusson, Rick Brunson is a good trash shopper. He had he had them slipping one liners. Yeah, he had to slip one liners. Uh. I thought you were gonna say the truth. Oh, you're right, you won sit right, and you know what, and it ain't even close. Actually, I'm tripping. I was tripping on that. The truth is absolutely number one of trashopper this and probably number one I played against was Kevin Garnetts. So and then two together. I couldn't even imagine that you played with them. Some tough guys you played with Oak Metal World, Pea, Jimmy Butler, Darry Roach, stephar Marbury, Steve Francis, Chauncey Biller. You gotta go get you going into a fight. Who you take it with you? I'm taking oh, and Matta, I'm taking it too. I'll take it over and meta then to it then to its first. Why do? Why do? When I mentioned tough, and I said, Okay, we gotta go to a fight. Everybody break up Oak. Oh my dog. I've been over twenty five years, so I know. But it's funny to hear other people talk about Oak. Let me flip it out. Of all your sports friends that a in the NFL, who are you taking the fight that you haven't been over the year. Who I'm gonna take. I'm gonna take Ray Lewis, Yeah, I'm gonna take. I'm gonna take Keith Burns, I'm gonna take Oh, I'm gonna take Stephen Jackson. And I want to take Matt Barnes. You can't go wrong. I'm good. You can't go wrong with him at all him. My boys, you can't. You can't go wrong with him. I'm taking to them too. Basketball I'm taking if you basketball player, give me, Oh, give me Stacks, give me Matt Barnes. You you have all the I give you all the rest of them. I played with all three of them two, so I'm going to world with all of them. Them three your signature move, I mean everybody the crossover. You know, Irason had a great crossover, but you they you Jay crossover? How do you set the move up and how did it come about? Well, I got different variations of it, to be honest with you. And when I grew up, I was watching Isaiah Thomas, I was watching ten hardaway, and then Allen Iverson took it by store. But Alan's is always was a left or right, you know, and and it was getting everybody with it, yep, and he would go over with it. He got he rocked Mike's world with that one. But and he did it twice. If you go back and look, he hit it with a short person right, and they didn't hit it with that long one. But uh yeah. So I learned from those guys, and I always went to the iris and one I said, didn't know what, what if I do it behind my back, it would be even harder for the defense to get the ball. And so I said, I'm gonna do it behind the back, and I just start making different variations of it, you know. And being a guy who's six five, you know, a long arms, sometimes I lose the ball, but only I know where it's at, so they think I lost it. I can go back and it plays right into the crossover, you know. So for me, I just I saw it and saw it and started evolving. Mind. I stole some all those guys, just trying to make my own collies, because what makes your so nick? As you mentioned, you're six five. Those guys are six three and below. You look at Iverson, you look at Steph, you look at Kyrie Hardaway, Rod Strickland. All the guys that could pat the rock, none of them were as long and lanky as you are. That's why when you're talking about top handles, I didn't want to toot my own horn. I'm like, no, I'm six five, so that's a that's a that's an advantage for me because I have such long arms and I can put the ball in places. Uh. And then you know, go back and turn to a crossover. Who your favorite players? You crossed over? I'm gonna go a rayal Man, how you ray over? For you? You crossed over shooter? You proud of that? Nah? Because Ray Jesus shows worth. That was my life in high school. And I saw that movie. I'm like, he got game. That's Jesus, that's you know, so just right being a shooter and being a you know, such a great player and Hall of Fame player, and such respect for him. I would say, real, nothing against red at all, it's just the stature he is. We talked about you coming off the bench. Explained the conversation. The first time a coach says, Jamal, we're gonna move you from the starting lineup and you're gonna be a reserve. You're gonna start coming off the bench. What was that conversation and then you like, but I'm giving I'm giving you buckets as a starter. Yeah, it was Larry Brown. He was one of the first ones. You know, once I established myself in my career, before I was eating six man, I was in year six and I just started an average I think eighteen years before. He was like, no, I want you to be the you know, our punch off the bench. I think our team will be better. And I'm really a big team guy. So he I said, all right, He's like, I'm gonna give you the same freedom everything, you know. So I had some really good games. It's just that simple. It was. It was you set a little weird at first, like oh man, you know, little shots of ego. But you know what I always look at like a challenge, Like I'm into different challenges. I always feel like there's another amount in the climbs. So for me, I said, you know what, this is something I've never done before. Let me see if i can do it. And I'm confident enough to my skills that I thought I can make the adjustment. It was more so missed. I had to make the adjustment. Okay, I need your mout rush more six men. Now you only got four spots. Yeah yeah, Jr. Jenobly, Jason Terry, Eddie Johnson, Dale Curry, Lamar Oldham. We got Michael Wave and Jamar profit you only get you only got four spots. Well I'm not I'm not going on that this so I'm not even putting myself on there. Oh you know what, No, I can't. I don't put myself on this list. And I don't. I just I just I pay how much to pe If you look at my wall, I got people at all before me. So every time you ain't got no picture of yourself on the wall, No, I'm not looking at it. I ain't got no I got two put back there. I got a bunch of people, but I I ain't got myself. So I'm not gonna put myself on my all. Okay, how M so keep that in mind. I'm gonna check. Have you check McHale? What god Ricky Pearson, any Johnson, I'm not. I can't do nobody for my ear. I gotta get I gotta get their flowers. You know what. I've noticed that because a lot of a lot of rappers, a lot of singers do that they don't like, I mean in comedia, because I have some of those guys on the show and they're like, man, I can't put that guy he my arrow, I can't put him up Rushmore. So what is it? What is it about guys from your era that you find so hard to put on on my Rushmore? It's not about them so much as is respect as the generation them. Yeah, because I just we're staying on their shoulders, you know what I mean, Like we didn't know what a sixth man it was until it was having to check in mcalle this guy. So for me, if you did my ear, if you change the question, said Mayer, I can give you a better answer. Okay, what your era? Glee okay, Lou okay, Jason Terry okay, Lamar Oldham's and then and I know, but then I gotta give love to Big Gordon shout out Ben Gordon just because he get his thame when he was the sixth man as well. You grew up in Seattle. In Seattle is really not It's not like, look, we know the Christie was in Seattle yourself, Nate Robinson. I think you had someone else that played uh and went to your high school. But it's not like New York. It's not like one of these major cities that's known for Detroit, known for Hooper. Like growing up in Seattle, and did you always know you wanted to be an NBA player. It was special because the basketball community was so tight. You know, you could see a Gary Payton or Seawan Kimp once I was sixteen years old, they were coming to my high school games, you know, allowing me to come around them and learn from him. So the community was always special for that reason alone. And then you see guys like when I was coming out of high school, it was a big thing just to go Division one. You know, guys would getting more scholarships. In football. We had more history with the Eric mccafs and Corey Dillons, you know, the lawyer Milloy's those guys, and basketball is only you know, Doug Christine and Clint Richardson, James Edwards, and they were way before us besides Doug. You know, so I think Doug really took me under his wing, and in turn, you know, once I made it. Brandon Roy, Isaiah Thomas, Dejean t Murray, Zach Lavine, Kevin Porter, now all those guys coming up, they see us in the community, one of their own going to the NBA like we can do it. Before it was like just if you go with Division one, a big time Division one. That was like going, bro, it's raining, as we always inside the gym, you know. But then you see a Nate Robinson going like, oh, I'm maybe Bradley I can do that. I'm Marvin Williams and Martell Webs, Spencer Halls, so many guys, And I think that's what the culture is special up here because we're all supporting each other at all time. This is eighth grader right now text or a sophomore in high school context. Zach Lamine ask the questions, we're all right here. That's the coach that we do. Did you always want to play basketball? Or with the no football? I played football show, I had hand I think I got out of hands. And now I'm talking. I'm talking crazy now, But nah, you see how you laughed at me. But now I played football. I started football, basketball, baseball at the same time, eight nine year olds off Yeah, football, I had a really good hands. Baseball. I didn't really want to play offense. I want to play defenses oppositing basketball, and then basketball. I just stayed with it. It It was just natural to me. My dad actually played, he played with Kevin loves Daddy versy working. Yeah, so I've always been around basketball since I was two years old. Man, It's just it's had a hold on me. It still does to this day. But I'm looking at your body type. You're you're in your forties and you probably weighed a buck eighties, so I can just imagine you as a fourteen fifteen year old kid. Did you weigh one hundred and twenty pounds? Then, Nah, I wouldn't want twenty. I wouldn't won twenty. I wouldn't pooky. I wouldn't pooky out here. But I was. I was like one sixty five, one seventy at the time, but yeah, I was finn I was real thin. You dropped the legendary the pro the program that you dropped sixty three in front of Kovid. What was the like doing that in front of Kovid? What was it like playing against Kobe and being around him. I'm answering two parts, and the second part was when me and you're gonna start in beating about something, already know where it's going. But okay, the first part, Kobe's or was like nothing else. It was like nothing else. I seen. The close side seeing to it was Jordan, and I've been around Jordan's being with the Bulls and here taking the interested in being spending time with But Kobe had a strangle hold on the league. He was just like he was a myth. You didn't see him unless it was a gym or commercial. You to see it nowhere else. You never saw him out, You never saw him at the grocery store. And so playing against Kobe, our relationship over the years took off. And we were actually here for Richard Sherman's softball game and me and Kobe we had respect over the years, and we started talking and we just really hit off that day, you know, and everybody comes to Scott was like, maybe you gotta get this guy's pro and I'm like, man, Kobe, still you know you got that or about I'm like cold man when you come to watch you playing prodecs like you play, I said, yeah, guy from Nike was like, no, we got to get back to LA because he's like, no, I'm I'm gonna watch jam all play. So he brought his whole family at the war. He had every reason in the world to say no, and he brought his family at the wind and can't watch him play. I'm driving over. They're like, man, Kobe, I don't believe this, but I said, this gotta be special. So I scored sixty three and hit the game when a shot and we we text a lot and and you know, our relationship really grew and took off, and I was just you know, honor and then uh, I think you're about to ask how to look at him as far as a player, Yes, he was. He was. He was the best player I played against. And obviously we're positions, but he just was. You know, you was a big Kobe guy, and I know that you know you really have respect for both of them, but you love Kobe as well. You love Kobe. Kobe gets like nothing else. But this is mentality and his work ethic and his skill he was, he was something different. It was an honored play against him. Where what made him so tough to defend? He was fearless. He was fearless, and he had a counter to every single move he had, you know, and then he had two counters to it, so he could go over fifteen and still hit the game with a shot. He wasn't shying away. So you had that kind of work ethic, that kind of steal, that kind of mentality, and that kind of freedom. Oh man, it's over, you know. So that's why you've seen him score sixty two in Dallas, score sixty one, or score eighty in a game, because you put it together in this magic you I think, I don't know if I had a lift it came out, but I saw where you commented any list that doesn't have Kobe in the top five you don't have respect for it. No, you believe Kobe is a top five player all time at my all playoffs, current playoffs currently, and yeah, and I think a lot of players will tell you that that actually played against him, to be honest, with his mentality and his competitiveness, Its just it set him apart, you know. And obviously, like I didn't see Will play. I didn't see mister Bill Russell play, who I'm actually very fond of them tight with. I didn't see those guys play, So I don't want to disrespect him by any means. I'm saying guys that I've actually played against the same play, right, I saw, I got those two. I got those two Lebron, Kobe and Jordan my top five. I mean, that's not that's not a bad top five, But you do know, in the history of sports, it's not. I don't know if we've ever had a guy ranked top five with only one MVP. You're right, but VPS it's kind of man made, right, like even let's man give your peers are the ultimate respect and the ultimate bar for you know how they feel about he went five and two of the finals. How I look at it, too, is if if you look at it, take you look at any era. I believe Kobe would have been dominant, ay every single era, and I think his competitiveness and work at the long is separated from a lot of guys. It seemed to me you with more modern player, more modern player than your top five, that because you got like you didn't see Russell play. You didn't see Chamberlain play, but you saw Tim Duncan. I did see Tim Duncan. I think he's I think he's the best car four ever. But those you saw Shack see Shack, I think shocks right there too. He saw bird, I did see bird. It took me a while for for uh, even lebron the pass, I saw a bird, but you know, it took a while. It took a while. The bird was an acquired taste because we had never seen I had never seen a white guy be able to do what he was able to do, and we I think you took it for granted. And then when you watched him, he bust up everybody you talk about, fearless everybody. I talked to Dominique Wikins about him, and he was telling me stories when when when Bird had sixty, he was talking any bits, you know, and they had to find some of their own players because they was like, man on it, you can't be laughing at me while out here, this dude's killing me different. But yeah, these guys, all those guys before me said Brown, Brown's younger than me, but everybody else was older than Becuse I still pay how much people Lebron. Talk about Lebron. One makes Ron so impressive? And are you surprised that Harry is a year eighteen he's still because we've never seen a player played this well at this age, this late in his career. Are you surprised that he's playing like this? I'm not because look at look at look at the expectation. This dude covered sports illustrators and chosen one before he graduated high school. He exceeded expectations that were that nobody could exceed. He exceeded him ten years ago. You know what I'm like, So, this dude is he's one of one and his brain, his brain, how smart. He's a basketball sciences the savve he can. He's a chest there playing basketball. It's funny watching him, say Phoenix, I was watching him and I'm sitting on the bench. He was playing with his before he was doing anything athletically. I saw him. I saw it was like digital. I just saw everything moving in his brain first before he's moved the chess pieces to what he wanted and he's He's like, well, the Lebron is he surpassed expectations ten years ago. This dude is out of this world. Well, why do you think he receives so much criticism being I mean, people say, well, he played I mean, look at what he's accomplished, and he plays the game the right way, and he doesn't get any trouble off the field. He doesn't have anything bad to say about anybody on the court. Why the why such dislike with Lebron, especially from some of the old players they seemed to find they seemed to keep moving the line, well, he does this. Well they moved the line of a little further and say, well, he didn't do that, and he does that, and they moved a little further and say we hadn't done this. Why, why, why? Why such criticism for Lebron? Because I don't think people hate on the dods. People hate on the grades, you know what I mean. And he's what he's done is he's changed the way the landscape of the game. He's changed the way it looks, changed the way it feels. He's changed so many things that people were used to. Right, He's done it in such a way that you can't do nothing about it. Like this, dude, is when he's going from the east to the West, going to the finals, win championships, here win championships. There, I'm going to ten straight finals. I hadn't been to ten straight finals in my program or eight straight like I had done. So this dude was just there's no limit to what he can do, you know, so you have to respect it. He changed the landscape. He made it okay for a transcended, a great player to go somewhere else, because before Lebron really Shot was the only one that had left. But I don't know, but at that time, Shock wasn't as accomplished as Lebron was. Lebron had won two MVPs by the time he packed up, he had gone to you know, had gone to the finals, Shock and going to the finals. But I think Lebron at that time was probably what a five or six time first team All NBA player, So he was really accomplished. So I will give Shock his credit. Shock was the first to do it. Every great player to leave but Lebron. When Lebron went to Miami from Cleveland, I think that opened up the flood gates that nobody thought would ever open. Yeah, I think that did, and that that brought a lot of hate. I mean, he brought a lot of love as well from going back home. But I think the Miami thing is where the hate when he started, if you go back and think about it, right, even in decision been if you're a lot of kids and everything. But I think that's where the hate started because you had Wade, who was a top ten player at the time, you had Bosh who's a top ten player, and now you got the best player at the time, you know what I mean going there. So that's where I think the hate really started. But I don't see the same level of victory all for KD teaming up with James Harden and Kyrie. Yeah, but they haven't won it yet either, so if they win it, that hate could come potentially. Yeah, And I'm sorry saying And I think because at the time when Lebron did it, he was the first of his kind to kind of do it that way. Because when Boston did it, they were in mid thirties, you know what I mean, They did on their prime. So I think they've already seen that Temple. Hey, you got to say, hey, you're going to Golden State, right. Well, I think Katie got it because he went to a team that he had down three one. Yeah, that was part of it. That was part of it. He had three one. I think that's that's what people kind of add that twist to it and they get on right. I mean, it's all the same, right, even if they had him down to too ended up losing, it's the same. You went to a team. And that's where people's erie and fires from. I don't I don't, you know, I don't care about it because now it's it's not it's not good because we're judging players on championships right that you know, that's that's what you know. That's what caused is because it wasn't good enough to be a great player. You say you're a great player, but you didn't win anything, and they throw that up in your face. So now guys are saying, Okay, well I want to go win a championship. And now you're like, well you ring Chase, right. You can't have it both ways, right, right, and either championship matter or they don't, right, And that's the whole thing. And that's the who you said, that's the whole thing. Obviously. I think your goal is Ah, Michael Jordan, Uh, you played with Mike. Give me some what was what was Mike like in practice? Uh? Some of the gambling stories because we know he's he's an all time great gambler, always trying to get people out there money. Yeah, Mike is like, I didn't play with with the Bulls, but like I said, when I was with Chicago, my dad had told me previously in the drafts, like, hey man, Michael Jordan likes your game. Like this is for social media, Like Dad, get out of here. How do you know Michael Jordan likes my game? So fast forward, I get drafted for the Bulls and Tim Grover calls me one day it's like, hey, MJ said, you can meet him. I'm like, what six thirty of the morning. I drive down there and this is when he was prepping for his comeback to the Wizards, right, And so I go down there and it's myself, ten and MJ. In the weight room. He's doing ill never forget the defensive slide drill and he we were just talking. I didn't want to talk too much. His workout, you know, it's like, hey, the something we work out together, and I'm like, oh man, this is crazy. So I called my friends that Michael Jordan. Nobody answers. It still early the West Coast, so that summer, I start going there and working out with him, playing with him, and he was just like his aura. It was like a ghost. He doesn't see. He doesn't see real, does it. He don't real. He don't seem real. Thinking about that, me and you both feel the same way, and many other people feel the same way. It see, he don't look real. He doesn't. He doesn't. The first time I met him, I'm looking at him, and I know he thought I was crazy because it's like he was levitating. He's and I know you're not supposed to play reverence and you're not supposed to be blasphemous like this, but he's like a god. I mean people should if I can't explain it. And everybody else that's ever met him, even superstars from Shock and the Jordan excuse his shot to Lebron, everybody has ever met him. He's said the exact same thing that he doesn't see. Like he's levitating. It looks like there's white smoke around him. I promise you it's something else. But I start being with him and hanging with him and like just watching him. He invited me to his house. Actually, he picked me to be in an extra in this commercial to play the younger version of him, and we're playing one on one, and he just really took a liking to me. And so you know, I just I never actually gambled with him. You know, I was good because you know me not. Yeah, now, I ain't never gambled with him personally, but he just he was just something different. I remember one time he came out there and some dude was talking trash. Yeah, Michael, I'm doing this. You know, I'm doing this now and I'm making as a player player making him. He's a Max contract. I'm getting my Ferraris and I'm doing this And they said, yeah, well now I get mine. They give it to me free just to drive. He had on this true storage that he had on a yellow Jordan outfit. He had on some black, white and yellow Jordan's they're probably still ain't out and outside he had a yellow Quart to Max. So he just was his whole thinking was just on a whole different plateau. He is. He he's a different animal. I mean to be a riding you. It's like I said, it's hard to explain, but you know, you know, and he has no problem. The thing the thing that I love about him. He's that he has no problem to tell you. I'm Michael Jordan. You know that. And there's one dude said up, I ain't never said that. One dude set up who wasn't playing against him. I forgot. I can stop you, he said, Man, Michael George's playground airtime, come fly with me. You see the whole videos, you already know what's about. Like he was just he's up all that stuff. And yeah, always he's always looking at your feet and see what shoots you got? Makes you got some Jordan? He he he And people last they say, well, what's he like? I said, I don't know what. I wouldn't know what he would be like to you, but I'm saying he was cool with me. He cool, He's super cool. But he gonna look, he gonna talk trash, that's in it. He can't help that. But he's a good Southern down brother. Like watching the Last Dance, you see his mom, right, that's the thing that's really intrigued to me, how he was raised. His mom still saying, mister Jordan talking about it that, Yeah, it's real respectful, you know what I mean. He's just he's just cool. He's real, real, cool. But we played together for two summers. We never lost one game. I never lost playing with him two straights. He was forty years old. Two straight summers. We played against Tenny, he played against Real and Tim Hardy Anton, everybody was coming through Chicago. We never lost. So do you believe that in today? And do you believe anybody will ever surpass him? As far as what he's been able to do? I think the shoes time and the shoes, what do he accomplished? Saying I saw stat yesterday? You know he never lost a championship. I don't mean with the Bulls, Olympics, Fever, National Championship, any championship game he's ever played, and he's never lost. So this dude was like out of this world, Like I just don't think we'll ever see that. Like his competitiveness, his drive, his work ethic, he was just gonna find the way to beat Michael Jordan. He never lets you down. He was Michael Jordan every single night. And that was the thing. I think. The thing is once one of my greatest accomplishments that I actually got an opportunity to see him play. I didn't get an opportunity. I mean I saw Magic the last time when he had come come back. But I didn't see Magic in his prime. I never got a chance to see Bird, but I got an opportunity to see Jordan. And I guess it's like, if you like golf, you got an opportunity to see Jack Nicholas and Tiger Woods play. If you like tennants, you got a chance to see Nadal and Federal Djokovic Serena Williams play. If you was forced enthusiast and you got an opportunity to see that guy play, you know you witness something special. Oh Shan, think about it. When we talk about goats and other fields, whether it be Tom Brady or soccer or whatever it might be, we say this guy is the Michael Jordan of this over the sports dad. They don't nobody ever saying, you know what you say about nobody, Like he's inspired everybody at those runs, Jay Z and Beyonce were coming to wash peak up. Like he's inspired everybody from every walk of life, you know, And that's what he's just. He's just I think God just put him here and says you're gonna be the one. He's the one. Yeah, Jamal, I appreciate it. Brother, Thanks for stopping by the club. Appreciate it. Thanks for sharing some insight. Best of luck. I don't know how it's gonna turn out, this journey, but hopefully you get an opportunity to play and you finish on your terms. Uh, it looks like you want to play. You you want to be the the Tom Brady of the NBA. You and you know what you know me him with the school together with the Michigan at the same time. So I'm trying to keep up with him. Don't let anybody do you. Don't let anybody do. You get back here there. Thank y'all. Appreciate it. Appreciate it. Jamal, have a go with Brouh all my life, running all my life, cust Ice, wanna slice, got the broller diceess way all my life. I've been running all my life, all my life, then running all my life, Sacrifice, Hustle, Bay the Price and wanna slice got the roller dice andess wait all my life. I've been running all my life.

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NFL legend Shannon Sharpe—3x Super Bowl champion and member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame—sits do 
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