On episode 33 of Club Shay Shay, Shannon welcomes in two guests: former NBA players Al Harrington and Allen Iverson.
Iverson recently partnered with Viola—the cannabis company Harrington founded—for a new line of A.I.-themed products. The two discuss how the perception of cannabis has changed since they were in the league, and Harrington talks Shannon through the excitement and challenges of growing a business.
Iverson and Harrington also discuss their roles in NBA history, from Iverson’s influence on player fashion with his baggy clothes, cornrows and arm sleeve to Kwame Brown’s career and meeting Michael Jordan.
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All my life and grinding all my life, sacri fice, hustle back price, one slice got the broner dice swad all my life. I've been grinding all my life, all my life, the grinding all my life, sacrifice, hustle back price, one slice got the bron dice swath all my life. I've been grinding in all my life. Hello, Welcome to another additional club. Shasha, I am your whole Shannon Sharp and I have two guys stopping by the club today for a drinking conversation. One of the sixteen year NBA VET He's the CEO and co founder of Biola Al Harrington, and the other is an NBA legend, eleven time All Star, MVP, three time All NBA, four time Scoring Champ, three times Steel Champ, Hall of Favor and Rookie of the Year. Mister Allen Iverson you know him? Miss Ai. How you doing, guys? What's that a shas? I'm good, bro. How y'all feeling today? Bro? I'm good, I'm medicated, I'm chilling. Okay, you guys got you got a special announcement you guys want to make take it away out? Hey? Man? So uh really honored and uh super excited to be doing a partnership with Uh. How can I explain this dude man like me so much, to me, to our culture, to you know, all the all the ballers that came up behind him, you know what I'm saying. Uh, So, just being able to work with him and be able to you know, create a business opportunity, it is just amazing. So we're gonna launch some allen Iverson products in the cannabis space. We're gonna do THAC products which would be like flower pre roles, bates, and concentrates. And then on the CBD side, you know, we're gonna do some topical teachers and capsules. You know what I'm saying. You know, we're always constantly trying to, you know, create products for athletes by athletes, because we know what we put our bodies through. And when you think about him, he was a warrior, you know what I'm saying. Throughout his career, you know, obviously played through unbelievable amounts of injuries, and you know, when we think about the ways that we have to even myself, I played through a lot of injuries, and yourself, even you, and the things that we had access to to me, were very harmful, you know what I'm saying, to deal with you know, the opioids and all the prescription drugs. But now you know, uh, you know, cannabis is now being viewed through another lens, you know, Uh, and we think that we have products that would be very beneficial to athletes. So it just really excited for this partnership. Hey, what made you want to partner with viol obviously? You know, al what what what made you want to get involved with this this company? It was definitely al his vision. I could just basically hit the excitement in his voice when he called me about it. And you know, when he explained to me everything that he was trying to do, I was on board, you know what I mean, because I felt like it felt like an honor to help him develop something and and and make it better than what it is now and for one of his dreams to come true, and you know, for me to have the opportunity to help him in any way, you know, I was, I was all for it, you know what I mean. Me and him got a great relationship, and uh, it just felt like the right thing to do. What made what made you decide to get into this space. You tried other things, You tried to restaurant, tried hotels. What made you decide to go into this space? Because you were ahead of your time? It was my grandmother. Now eleven years ago. I was able to convince my grandmother was seventy nine years old the time to, you know, come see me play when I was playing in Denver, Okay. And when she got there, I didn't know at the time, but you know, she was dealing with a lot of different ailments. And you know, I bought a bag up for her and she opened it and took all these pills. And I was just like, Grandma, what's going norway and taking so much medication? And she gave me the long list of you know I always say, like the black grandmother's ailments, Right, she had hot blood pressure, diabetes, glaucoma. And when she said glaucoma, I was telling her about the article I was reading literally two days before she got there, about how cannabis helped with glaucoma patients. So finally started telling her about it, and she just asked me, she said, well, what is what is cannabis? And I said, it's marijuana weed. She's like reefuck. She's like, why ain't smoking over for you? Out your mind? So I was like, well, Grandma, this is medical doctors prescribe it. You know, you should give it a try. She told me no, but this was a guy. I feel like God was working, you know what I'm saying. The next day, I come on from shooting around and she's literally in the kitchen complaining about how bad her eyes hurt. So I just said, Grandma, why don't we just try to cannabis. It'll be our secret. I won't tell nobody. Let's see what happens. So she said yes, and I went to the dispensary. My boy did brought back a string called Vietnam cush. We put in a volcano bag of all things. So just let you know, I know nothing about smoking. Had a try it. She hit it two, three, four times, and I'm looking at it. I'm like, all, Grandma, that might be enough. So I took it. I took her downstairs. I went took a nap because I had a game broke up before I you know, jumped in the shower, said me go check on it. So I go downstairs. The doors closed, so I opened the door, you know, knock on the door. I don't hear nothing, and knock again, and I opened the door. Her back into the door and she's looking down and I just said, Grandma, how you feeling? And she turned around man, and she was crying tears. She said, I'm healed. She said, you know, I haven't been able to read the words and my bike went over three years wow. And it changed me at that moment. You know, I went in there and I hugged her. You know, she was crying. She made me start crying, and you know, she was just testifying, saying how everything was so bright and everything was so clear, and that's what inspired me to learn more about cannabis. And eventually, you know, we got our first license. And you know, Viola is my grandmother right now. We named the company after that. I thought you was gonna say, you opened the door and you found grandma hit it again without you. That's now. Hey. I obviously, when you play as long as you guys played, and you playing, you know, you play on Monday night, you play, may play back to back. You get two days off and then you play Thursday Friday, and you playing these games, the up and down, the thirty five forty minutes a night a out for you. Do you wish that the NBA, because this seems to be there's there's a shift and how we view marijuana now. Do you wish they would have been that shift back then? Do you believe guys could have played better, played longer had they had this substance instead of the narcotics and the pills and the injections that they were forced to take back then. I don't. I don't know exactly, but I think it should have been more of a conversation, right, you know what I mean, more of a common say instead of it being suddenly something so negative, you know what I mean. I think it should have been looked at another way. And you know, the most important thing is our help obviously, you know what I mean. And you know, obviously it's to each his own with everything that that you do. But you know, a lot of people, just from hearing from AL and different people, you know, they felt like, you know, it could have added more years to their career and did a lot of things for them as far as healing from night to night. So I don't know, man, Like, like I said, I'm getting education from AL and you know what I mean just listening to different things that you know, he tell me about how it, you know, can help people. And I'm all for that, you know what I mean. If I can have a chance of an opportunity to to help somebody and to make their career go you know, a couple of years longer, you know, get people to heal the best way that they can, then I'm all for it, you know what I mean. I just felt like it was a great idea, a great opportunity to help a parting out of mine, you know what I mean. I'm looking forward to the results of everything. But Al, you just did. Al you did something very unique because you're not one of these guys that's okay, I'll you know, I got some money, I'll be the front. And I said, you rolled up your sleeve. You found out about it from picking the seeds and where to going, the different types of strands, and what would be best for you in the business that you were trying to go in a lot of people don't do that. Why were you so? Like, you know what, I need to know everything there is to know about this business, so when people ask me this, I can tell them back when they asked me that I can tell them this, and I can go into great detail and tell them why this is a good a good substance for them. Well, to be honest, you know, when I started this ten years ago, this is my ten year anniversary, bro, it wasn't I didn't have an option of being the face up right. It wasn't popular in that right, you know what. It was taboo to be honest, you know, yeah, it was too taboo. I mean honestly, if I asked Chuck ten years ago to go in a weed company, he probably looked at me like I was crazy, you know what I'm saying, Like that's that's how serious it was during that time. And I mean, for me, my financial advisor literally dropped me because I made the investment in the cannaby right. He literally told me he wasn't gonna help me laun the money. He wasn't going to jail behind helping me start the cannabis company. It just wasn't popular back then, But you had I had to do it all myself, you know what I'm saying, And stand even from the standpoint of you know, hiring attorneys and different things like that. My first attorney that I hired then like everything he told me to do was the wrong thing, right, you know what I'm saying, Like, thank God I knew how to read and understand and be able to you know, interpret, you know, different contracts and legislation that actually got me to this point where I am today, you know what I'm saying. But anything, what I've learned just in my career is being an entrepreneur. Like if anything that you're gonna put your money and time into, you're gonna have to put bloss, sweat and tears into it if you're gonna get something out of it, you know what I'm saying and being at and during that time, like you know, I was afraid that if people found out, I might lose my contract. It was just different than right and it you know, but I had to literally do everything myself, and you know, obviously it made me a monster in the game, right you know what I mean? Like now I am a cannabis expert. You know what I'm saying, I'm a thought leader, and you know, we're really breaking down barriers every single day, you know, as a company and me personally as an entrepreneur in the space, some of the best restaurants are owned by chef because they're in the one doing the cooking. They understand what the what the clientele is going to like, what they need, what you know, what they prefer. So you you were in the fields, so you went, so how did you know to go up bout saying, you know what, I really need to know everything? And you you you you admitted that I had to do this with a veil of secrecy because it was so taboo. People didn't look at marijuana then like they look at it now, right, Well, I had to like it to your point, like I had to know everything because at the same time, like cannabis is still federally illegal, right, right, So I couldn't put you know, all that I've worked for, you know, all the network that I was able to get my reputation. I couldn't put it in the hand of somebody else, right. I had to know exactly what was going on, you know what I'm saying, and why I was making certain decisions, and where our money was going in right, how we were paying taxes and all these different things, you know what I'm saying. So to your point, yes, a chef, you know what I'm saying. If you wanna run a restaurant. You need to know every part of that restaurant to make sure you don't lose anymore, right, you know what I'm saying. So I've learned that early in the game. Like once again, my old financial advising one of the things he used to challenge me with every time because it's NBA players or as professional athletes, you know, we get a business deal every week, right, right, So you know a lot of times I would bring deals and want to do it, he would say no. And it finally told me, like you really want to do this deal, you do you do the due deal is just yourself. You do the research. And that's what really opened my mind. I was twenty eight years old when that happened, you know what I'm saying, And ever since then, that's how I conducted myself in business, and I was able to take pretty much you know, with athletes, you know the way we grind and you know, and how regimented we are and different things like that. I took all of everything that made me a sixteen year pro right and brought it into this world. And that's why we're thriving, you know what I'm saying, Because we're diligent, right, you know what I'm saying. We're militant and we get shit done. You're good, run, you're good. But you could attested this. Everybody got great business ideals with your money. And the thing that you have to understand, Alan, I'm sure you found this out, is that with people like, oh, he going into a business, he don't really know, so we might be able to steal a dollar here, steal a dollar there. He I'll be here't gonna know. He worried about something else, so let's take advantage of him. Hey, I'm sure you tried to open up a business. What is some of the advice that you know, if I were, if you know, you're trying to explain to someone like, Okay, you want to open up a business, this is what you need to do. That's the that's the basically the problem that I had a lot when I was playing, you know what I mean, because I was I was dealing the damning and a lot of things, and you know, I wasn't as serious as I was with those things like I was correct. You know a lot of times during my career, you couldn't tell me that it would come to a name, you know, so I always I always felt like you know, once I retired, you know, the things that I get involved with. You know, that's a job every single day like it was being an NBA basketball correct, You know what I mean. I think that's the most thing. That's the most important thing for anybody that's trying to do anything. You gotta put your blood, sweat and tears into it, like I said, and and and make sure you're watching everything to make sure it's done the way you envisioned it, the way you wanted it to turn out and be successful. Alice says cannabis is going to be a seventy billion dollar industry by twenty twenty eight. It's a twenty four billion dollar business as we sit here to day in twenty twenty one. But you know, with anything, when it comes to businesses, normally minorities on the outside looking at even though you know, when they had the war on drugs, it was not minorities that were going to jail. It was the minorities that we're getting the hard sentences and suffering the penalties. So how do how do how do minorities gain access to a business that now people see that are profitable. You're gonna have big tobacco, big farmer trying to come in and overtake it. Yeah, So the way we're gonna do it is, you know, one of the things that we advocate for at VIOLA is you know, for obviously inclusion, right and it's through a lot of these social equity programs. Right now, cannabis is very, very, very expensive to partake in because you know, right now, you can't get loans any traditional ways of you know, starting a business is not accessible to us right now. Okay, you have to either get it from you know, private private people, family offices, and that comes down to resources and relationships. Right. A lot of these social equity programs are you know, catered to giving them to people that were recently incarcerated, all these different things. And what makes it tough is because you know, if somebody was just recently incarcerated, you know, how do you make an investment into this person where you know they're going to be majority they make all the decisions all these different things. So what some of the things we're working on at violas We have an incubator program where we're trying to teach you know, the people that actually come through our program ways to you know, be able to you know, get into the business and actually be successful in the business right because it's obviously overly regulated. The legislations constantly changes, and it's just very difficult to actually, you know, be successful in this space. But what we're gonna fight for it is for that opportunity either way. You know a lot of times these states, you know, usually give out all these licenses and they give out socioequity after the fact. And in basketball terms, how I look at it is like it's like spotting the Warriors from two years ago at thirty point lead to start every game. It's impossible for us to win. You know what I'm saying, Well, Black people are shown constantly is we are masses of making something out of nothing. If you give us a true, fair shot opportunity, we can compete with the best of right, And that's what we're fighting for. And that's what Viola is going to do. And that's what I'm really excited for bringing Allen into this family and into this into this purpose. You know what I'm saying, because you know, what we're doing is we're giving people hope and we're giving them you know, we're giving them something to inspire for we inspiriting inspiring them to really go out and go after this because this is generational wealth at risk fire people. You know, there's obviously industries before this, right, sugar, cotton, alcohol, tobacco, lottery, you go, all tobac These are all things we started. We painted those things and we have no ownership, but we can't allow this to happen with cannabis. Eighty five percent the drug arrests, like you just mentioned, in black communities is always cannabis related. The one thing that I know that I've been in the game for eleven years, I still haven't met any black farmers that own thousands of acres of cannabis, and I haven't met any of them that own trucking companies. So all I'm saying is that all those things had to happen before they hit our community, and none of those people were ever ever affected. It was only us. So we just feel like, right now, we gotta make a stand and we gotta make sure that we get our piece of the part. And that's what I'm fighting for every single day. So are you telling us we started the numbers game that they'd be playing the cash three and the cash for we started playing that at the Really we used to play that at the you know, and locked us up for it, and they locked us up for that too. It's crazy. But as you mentioned that weed is still federally regulated, how do you how do you get it off the federal control list? Because I mean, if so many, if you know, you're making billions and billions off of it, what's going on here? I think it's just a matter of time, man. I think the government, as you know, this is what they do, right. They just gotta figure out how do they tax it, how do they get that, how do they get their cut, and in the main, how didn't get they cut? And then they also have to figure out how do they regulate it right and regulated consistently across all markets, where I think that it's got probably gonna end up being just like liquor, where they're gonna allow each state to kind of have their own nuances or whatever. But you know, we have Chuck Schumer, you know, Corey Booker, we have people that are definitely out pushing for federal legalization, and you know, I think that it's coming sooner than later. You know, I think the first thing that will happen would be federal decriminalization, which will allow each state to make their own rules around how they want cannabis to be you know, in that state, and then after that federal come right behind it. Do you think America would be surprised at how many of their best athletes smoke cannabis. They would be very surprised. I personally, I personally think that there's eighty plus percent of the NBA players that use cannabis in some shape form of fashion. I want to just say that, like most times when you hear about someone using cannabis, the first thing you think about is them smoking a bomb. All that, but cannabis has evolved so much. I sat now right to the point where, like I said, you know, now we have all these other different ways to deliver cannabis with whether it's a bad pain, whether it's edible, whether it's a teacher, whether it's capsules, you know what I'm saying, whether it's a topical cream. It's all these different ways that players can now use cannabis to benefit them for recovery and just overall wellness. When if I said you could get four people you could smoke with dead or alive, give me the four you choosing AI, they ain't smoking. I want to smoke with you were definitely, we're definitely gonna have to be at the house. I want to smoke with I want to smoke with Bob Marley and I wear mind smoking with Barack Obama. I want to watch them in here. Wow, i'd be a nice group. That's a nice group. That's a nice group. I think. Uh, I don't know. I think I could get you. Hey, I'll say here did a twenty six years. I think I can get a I got me. Let's get you some sports. Uh, hey, I you had it. You did it all you mister basketball, mister football at at Newport. Right you're from Newport. Yeah, you're from Newport Newport. Yeah, my Michael vic sweet peeu partner that win it all, y'all from down that area. Uh. Let me ask you this, had you not chosen basketball, do you think you could have been as good as an NFL player as you were an NBA player? Shannon and and and this is like a this is a fucking list moment for me because Shannon shap is asking me a question about like that. I'm already when I when I go home, and and and I see the guys I grew up with. You know, I'm a brag about this situation right here asking me about fall, but not being cocky, not being arrogant. I think, no, I know that I would have been a better player in football than I than I was at ball. And and that's not disrespecting basketball, guys, that's not disrespecting the game that that that's done so much for me. I mean, I'm a household name, I'm a hall of famer in that in that sport. But football was my first love. And at the same time, Shannon, you know, if I would have had to get on the grid and then I wouldn't have never stopped lifting ways after high school, you know what I mean, You would have seen an old totally different physique. I might be looking like you or something. Hey, but I would have I would have had to. I would have had to would have had a short, short care you know what I mean. Basketball, I just didn't like Waits because I it was too heavy. Football, I know I would have had to. I would have had to lift. And then you can you can you can ask anybody from Virginia and and and they would tell you Shannon that, you know, hands down I was. I would have been better in football, So that was my first love. So you would have been Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, Lamar Jackson, Michael Vick. You you was Michael Vick before Michael Vick. All you gotta do is ask Mike and then and then what's what's what's wild about what you're saying? And that that that lets me know about definitely what I've been knowing about your your sports i Q. But you know that's how I was as a basketball player, you know what I mean. I wanted to add some of Michael Jordan's game, add some of magic, be fast like Isaiah, rebound like Barkley, be dominant like Shaq, you know what I mean, do it all on the court, right like you know, you know the guys that do everything, not just one particular thing on the basketball. I didn't want to have no weaknesses out on the court, so I tried to implicate all of those guys game in the minds. And that's what I would have did in football, you know what I mean. I would have wanted to be accurate like Aaron Rodgers and have the arm like Aaron Rodgers. But I definitely would want to run like Russell. I definitely would want to run like Lamar Jackson or Mike Vick. You know what I mean. I just wanted, you know, in basketball, I didn't want the opponent to feel like they could do just one thing to shut me down. I wanted to have variety that I could counteract with, you know what I mean when they try to take something away from me. And it would have been the same thing in football, Like I mean, just the way you change the game at tight end. You know, tight end is not playing the game, Nope, Like you know, you played the game, you know what I mean. It was like a wide receiver playing tight end, you know what I mean. And that's how you changed the game. And that's what I would have tried to add to my My football game was different parts of great and try to put it in one game and the ants. Now, you came directly out of high school. Did you know that that was something that you always wanted to do when you growing up? Obviously you were probably taller than everybody else and you wanted to play in the NBA. When did you realize, like, you know what, I ain't going to college. I'm going straight from high school to the NBA. So I mean, I I don't tell my story enough. But believe it or not, I didn't start football with my first love too, okay, right, And I wanted to be a defensive end. I played. I played defensive end in offensive tackle when I was a freshman in high school at play Bro offensive tackle. Yeah, Bro, that's left side. Bro, that's all the money. But uh, but I didn't. I didn't hoop. I didn't hoop until I was a freshman in high school. I was six four, I move, so when I got there, they see this big, tall kid, They're like, oh, you're gonna play basketball. So I was the worst play all on my freshman team. My sophomore year, I transferred to all basketball school. I don't know why I did that. I just just decided to say, forget football, I'm gonna play basketball only. I was probably the worst player my sophomore year too. But between my sophomore and my junior year, man I just dedicated myself to the gym and like my game just like I just got nice out of nowhere. And to be honest, like I didn't have hoop dreams as a kid, like I thought I was gonna go to Notre Dame and play for the New York Giants. That's what I want to do. And next thing, you know, bro, like I'm a soft I'm a junior. I'm killing my going to my going into the summer, going into my senior year, and I was like top twenty five. I got that good that fast, And it was certain names on that list I needed to go get and they were all at the Nike all American kids. So instead of me, I was an Adidas kid. But I said, I'm going to Nike to go get those kids. And I went to Nike and I ended up being the MVP of the camp. And I had just told him, the guy that was training me, I said, Yo, you can give me to being the number one play in the country. I'm gonna go pro out of high school. And Bro, that's literally how I made the decision. Like I had no idea though. It's just I just got really good out of nowhere and ended up being the number one player in the country, and you know, the rest is history. There are a couple of months ago, Kwame Brown came up, and I don't think me personally, I don't think Kwami was a failure. You don't make it to the NBA the number one overall pick. Now maybe he did. Some people say, well, he wasn't a Hall of Famer, he wasn't this or that. But what if you could have given what do you think some of the things that happened to Kwami? Because watching him, he's athletic, he could run, he was number he was quick. Why don't you think he enjoyed the level of success that many think he was destined to have. Well from you know, from what I know about the situation, because I knew a couple of guys that was on and the Wizards, you know when he got drafted, was that he went to a veteran team where I guessed that they didn't really want him there, right, you know, I think that what he was saying was the truth. Like he thought that he was supposed to go to the Clippers for ellen Brandt. So those veterans that you know, Michael Jordan wanted to win right now, right, he don't want to develop a high school kid, right, So from what I hear, it was just like he didn't get a lot of support. You know what I'm saying from the from the vets and you know that's that's a big thing, man. And I will say, like, as much as I wanted to be a top five pick, you know, God blessed me to be picked at the twenty fifth pick because they put me on the team full of veterans that taught me how to be a man, how to be a pro. You know what I'm saying. What they instilled in me, the foundation they gave me was the reason why I was able to play sixteen years and why I had a respectable career was because the things that those guys taught me, and from what I understand from the outside looking in, it was from stories was that he never got that because when you think about it, to your point, he had everything, but what he lacked was confident and sometimes you need Vets to give you that confidence. You know what I'm saying. The one thing I'll just talk about Allen is like from what I've seen it, because I was in Ndenda when he was at the height in Philly, when he was giving us forty every night, but he had all these guys around him that you couldn't tell they believed in them. Bro. You know what I'm saying was something about the way he gave him a high fire, the way he patted him on the ass, that made them willing to run through a wall for him. You know what I'm saying. And that's what I think that Kwami never got and that's the reason why I think his career started off that way. I totally agree. I don't believe you could go ahead, yeah, eighteen ye eighteen years old, number one pick in the NBA draft. I mean, if if that's not pressure, because I mean even if you go lottery, that's that's a big time pressure. He stayed out of high school, no college experience to step on that stage like that. I applaud him, you know what I mean. And I played with Kuama. I love Kuami the person I played with him, you know what I mean. Everybody talk about you know, they didn't know Kwami was like this, and you know how old outspoken he is now and everything Kwami been like that, you know what I mean. And and something I don't know when it was when it happened, some lit a fire up under him and it all came out of him. But you know, Kwami smart, very intelligent man. You go on this podcast and you listen to him. You got a lot of great points, you know what I mean. And I just feel like, you know, he was put in a tough position man, being a number one player in the NBA at that young of an age, you know what I mean. And and like I all said, going to a squad where they were trying to win, like they had black JS on that squad, you know anything you trying to win now, right, And it's just I didn't like the way it turned out because a lot of guys that he did get into it with, these guys that I love and respect, you know what I mean. So I didn't like the whole fiasco anyway, and you know, it gave me a bad feeling anyway. And I just think, you know, Kwami did what he did. He was he was successful. I know him as a person and as a teammate. I know he had fun when he played and enjoyed himself and and Kwami had a lot of great moments. Now, you would expect a number one player to, like Shannon said, end up being a Hall of Fame un All Star. Yes, yeah, at least an All Star. Maybe if you don't make the Hall of Fame, at least an All Star yes, right, and and it it didn't, it didn't happen for him. But you know, a bus I can't really I can't say that man. I mean number one play, I mean number one picked. I don't know all the beautiful things he's done for his family and and for himself. I applaud it. Man, you know what I mean. I love Kuami many We were all ex professional, ex professional athletes. And you know the number one thing people can say, Well, it's size, it's this, it's that, it's confidence. We've seen guys that call, We've seen guys that can run it, can lift all these weights. But if you're not confident when you step out there on the court or the field, you don't mean nothing. That's it, that's it, that's that's it. In a nutshell, if you don't have if the confident, I don't care, if you Lebron James himself, you can be Michael Jordan, you know what I mean. With all the athletic ability in the world. You know what I mean, And if you don't believe in yourself, and that's in anything like, yes, that's anything. Yes, you know what I mean. You canlind the eight ball anytime you don't. You don't believe in yourself, you know what I mean. My my, my mentor used to teach me all the time when I was young. He used to say, if it's you and me, it's me, you know what I mean. That's not cocky, and that's not arrogance or anything like that. That's the belief. That's what you believe. It in the talent that God gave you, you know what I mean, and respecting the talent that He gave you by believing that you're the best. You know, I stepped on the court with number twenty three before both of them, right, you know what I mean, open the number twenty three's And when I was on that court that night, I felt like in my heart I was the best player on the front. And a million people will say otherwise, but it all that mattered was how I felt, right, you know what I mean. You're gonna know who number twenty three is in black and red, you know when he leave up out of this gym tonight, But you're gonna know who number three is two. And that's just how I approached it, you know what I mean. Because once you don't have the confidence and bow down the battle was already lost. You're in trouble. Go ahead, and in trouble from step on the floor, I'm disagreeing with him. You know what I'm saying, Like confidence is everything, you know what I mean, Like you could have you can have it all. But if you don't believe in yourself, you know what I mean, it don't matter, right Shan and I thought I thought we were a super team. That's that's how I believe in myself. Because I'm saying, you put four other pros with me, why can't we beat anybody? Right? The pros I'm on the floor right and like you got jan they believed in me right well, they felt like every night in that FOXO as long as they saw me and that fox so we had a chance to win. Hey, I think that I felt. Hey, everybody knows what you did on the court. But you also changed the rule because you had everybody coming. If they wearing one hundred and fifty pounds, they were wearing a T shirt that was fit shot, they were wearing jeans that would foot calm alone. You started that. You started the car rolls. Nobody was had corn rolls, nobody was tapping teammates. My teammates hated me for that they were going to big and small and I would get there before them and buy up all of this stuff so they understand all the biggause I would buy all this up them from from big and tall. And I was just I didn't never think that I was doing nothing wrong. I was dressing like the guys from my neighborhood. It was just it was just at some point it turned from Levi's to jabowls and guests and all, you know, because I could afford it, right, you know what I mean. And and and I was getting beat down a lot. And I think it's kind of bitter sweet because if you look at today's game in every sport, you know, you see guys dressing and and and looking the way they want to look. You know, some people can disrespect it and it might not be there. Look, but people comfortable, they supposed to be able to come to work comfortable. Right And and like for me, I never went to the basketball court when I was growing up in a suit. You know what I'm saying, I wear them down because because you know, my my, my lady, like when I wear seats. But back then for me, I was I didn't mean anything by it or any thing like that. I was being meet right, and I felt like, that's what's wrong with being you. Everybody else taken up? So when when? So? When when the commissioner? When the commissioner changed the rule, even though he didn't say it was the Allen Iverson rule. You gotta work through you, the sporting codes and things of that nature. No oversized T shirt, no football jeans size fifty when your size thirty two. One way through your gods. May he rest in peace. I love him to death because we became real We we became real good friends towards the end of my career. And I just remember going in there to meet him about that dress code situation. Shannon Man and I had on all baseball and baseball get you know what I mean, And he said something I think I had on the Indian stuff, and he was like, what's you know, what's over this major league baseball stuff you got on? And I'm like, man, it's just clothes, you know what I mean? And I said, and I'm meet meeting And I thought I may have been in there thirty minutes, and it seemed like I was in there getting chastise for hours, and I really felt like they changed that rule because you know, once everybody seeing that I was dressing like that, guys were like, with damn, that's how you know. I want to dress how I feel? Yeah, where was we going afterwards? After afterward, Shannon, you know we're going from them and go right to the club, right up to the club. So you you were that bridge because everybody saw Michael Jordan footing and mooded. He had a shot, he had a food on, he had the tie on the nice gate of the nice shoes. Okay, Michael Jordan. And then Ai comes along in ninety six and he got on four ex T shirt in food boo and he taged it up. They're like, well, hold on, I want to be like this. This is more comfortable than being like that. It's not the it's it's not the it's not the it's not the clothes, right, you know, just like when a guy when when some guys you you ever seen reservoir dogs, ye, when they robbed the jewelry store or anybody go robs and banks, they don't never have on sweatpants and and and Jane and they come in there with soups on. You know what I mean, it's the stereotype. It don't matter, it's it's it's inside the clothes. Right there, you go, You know what I mean? Do you understand it's the but you started? You started the sleeve. Wasn't nobody wearing no sleeves? You starting to sleeve? I'm like, why you got done? Or I'm like, what's what's wrong? White? That was was the sleeve? Was it just a fashion statement or did you actually need to sleeve? It was a It was a it was an injury and I had just got surgery on my elbow. It was an injury and I have I don't know if the remember the cloth that they used to have the training room, but yeah, they put it over there. They're cutting and put it over you unique to keep down swelling the things. Yeah, you go. And then I just said, okay, won't y'all just make me want right? And then it started. It's so popular and I love it now, like I love seeing guys in different sports, you know, have them on and whatever. Some guys women don't even be injured. Right. One time I was watching the r. Kelly video and the man had it on in the video, Man Kelly want to fell off the stage and hurt itself. Something the man gotta sleep on in the video a fashion and I was really hurt. Then I had to wear end up turning to sleep into a fashion man. And today when I look back on it, it's so cool. You see high school players, college players wearing it, even you know, dudes wearing rec league football. I just think it's I just think it's so cool and it's a blessing. Man. I'm ask both of you this, who do you think had the best draft class. We're gonna start with ninety six AI use the number one pick, Kobe Ray, Allen, Steve Nash, Jermaine O'Neil, Stephan Maulbury, eighty four, Jordan's Barkley Malone, Sam Perkins, and then in two thousand and three you got Lebron, Wade Mellow and Bosh, Hey, I you up first. First of all, Shannon, you already gave you already. Uh, you already said the best draft class because when you named Dolls, look how many players you name and then you forget you got Lorenzen right. Did you did you say did you say Karrie Kiddles No, I didn't say care Kidder. Did you say Marcus Canby, Nope, did you say Jay Wallace? Nope? Swinn Walker, Man, did you say I think you said Steve Nash Say, yeah, you Kobe ray Allen, Steve Nash, Stepan Marbury, Jermaine O'Neil, Derek Fisher. But here's the thing though, But here's the thing. You Kobe ray Allen, Steve Nash made the hall. Jordan Stopton, Barkley, Eli Juan made the hall. Broun Way eight, mellow boss will make the haul. I don't know, I don't know. I don't know. Al, you're a little too smart. I knew you make me wrong because if that because that was very valid right there. I'm i that one that was good. That was good. What do you think I happened? I'm thinking you you was gonna know that that we had so many good players and all star players in there, but then you had to throw that Hall of Fame thing out there. Yeah, I like that one, you get what what do you think of that? Man? I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go ninety six. You I like I like that? Yeah, I mean I think for me like that was my error. You know what I'm saying, and they was just like, those are the dudes that I looked up to. You know what I'm saying. If I came into the game late, right, you know, so for me ninety six, I would say those guys have or an impact on the way I played the game than any of those other classes. Hey, I if you were playing with me when you got, when you got, when you got, see when you it's hard man, when you got. And I'm not taking nothing away from Dwayne and Mellow because I love him guys on and off the court. But in the same thing with LII, Juan and Mike. When you put Lebron in the class you got Mike, they take you about four or five spots by himself exactly exactly cold months. Hey, if you if you were playing in today's game, with the way the rules are now, with no hand checking, with all the space on the floor, at your prime, at your peak, how many points do you think you could average the game? People ask me this, and it sounds so arrogant, but it's the truth, the way they play now, and it's so wide open. Definitely more than my highest average, So I think I have it most average. And the season was like thirty three thirty three five something, and I lost the scoring title that year to the mumble was that for me to lose a title? And I'm averaging thirty three, but definitely more than my highest average because it's it's it's too wide open, and and with the with the floor spaced out like it is now, it would have been harder to to to double team me like they was. And and I don't know, but you still now you can they can sit You can sit in his own catch. Yeah, I thought I would think that it would be harder for me. Like when I was in college. All my teammates you used to say, man, well you know you're gonna have it good being that you you don't have to deal with no more two threes, one three ones, no more boxing ones, you know what I mean. They're gonna have to play your head up, you know, night in and night out for forty eight minutes. And then ironically was somehow, all of a sudden, when I started winning a couple of scoring titles and this dude six feet, one hundred and sixty five pounds, you can't stop them. Then all of a sudden, the zone came into the zone in the NBA. Man, Yeah, they jump in never play zone in the NBA. So I think that was some type of conspiracy. Man, that's how many points? How many points? Because there a lot of people say if the heat havage forty heat having fifty average sixty, how many points do you think Jordan could average it Today's NBA? What's the most he ever havaged? Thirty seven? Thirty seven? One? All right? So forty easy, forty easy? Forty forty easy? Yeah, forty easy, like like forty easy, forty would be easy for black Jesus because Harden I think hardened, hardened a couple of years ago average thirty six. So you go, So you figured Jorin could average forty with no problem. I'm man sharing it like it's when I talk about him, it's different man and a lot of clowns. A lot of times it's by because I love him so much. Like if if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't have had the vision, I wouldn't be the Allen iverson the basketball player today if it wasn't for him, you know what I mean? So I feel and plus he was he was he was the best to me, you know what I mean? I think I think, I definitely think he was the best. And and I don't put Lebron in the conversation because I I love him so much as a as a person and as a and as a basketball player. You know what I mean, It's real, real personal. Whenever, then Michael Jordan don't have the personal relationship like me and Lebron. Lebron, right, but those three Lebron, Mike and Kobe. I never seen nothing better. I never seen I never seen him player better than those three, I might ask both of you guys. And you add to that. When he had when he averaged thirty seven, he was doing it with twos. It wasn't even know they weren't. They weren't shooting three pointers like how they shooting now. You know what I'm saying is just just imagine if Michael like decided to shoot six seven threes a game like they do now, like forty would have been easy. Oh, no question, I didn't even think. I didn't think about it that well. Let me ask you a question. When you first met Michael Jordan, both of you guys, what was it like to meet him for the very first time? You go ahead out, So for me, the first time was actually seeing him on the court and with the Wizards, okay or whatever. So, uh, it was just in the game, and you know that game, I actually had a good game, and you know, he started talking, you know, he called everybody a hope. So finally I got to the point where, like, you know, I know it's Michael Jordan. I'm like, damn, well, you can keep calling me a hole. He like you a hole. I'm liked me a little bitch. So I had to wear it. But after that game, you know, after that game went to overtime, and uh, I had thirty five that game he had forty one and they won the game. And after the game, he signed some shoes and sent it to me. After the game, it was like best best wishes, keep playing hard and all that. And I hadn't. I didn't even ask him for him So for me, it was like, you know, obviously, you know, I grew up a Nick fan, but obviously everybody you gotta like Michael Jordan at the end of the day. You know, it was just it was, you know, it was a surreal moment for me. But at the same time, you know, I went out there and I could he need against it to show. Yeah. First, first of all, I was a Bulls fan coming up because of him. But while he was in the league, man, I mean I hated the Bulls more than any team in that league. I hated the Bulls, you know what I mean, Like once I got into the league and you know, heard the way they talked to us, and like they knew, they knew they was at the top of the mountain. And man, I never forget my first time. I talked about it in my Hall of Fame speech, and I you know, I wasn't lying at all. Man, he didn't look real to me, like, you know, I know I was started up. I know I was start shtruck because, like I said, I talked about the Charlie Murphy Hollywood stories, and he talked about Rick James and how Rick James walked in the room and he saw it like the orange like it's or yeah you know what I mean, Yeah, I saw that. Like I looked at that man and he didn't look human toil me. You know, I'm looking at him like, damn, he got on the you know, he got on the Jordan's you know, he don't even have on the NBA socks. You know, I'm looking at his his knee brais you know, on his ship, and I was like, man, it's him, you know what I mean. And they teased me before the game because they was like, you're not gonna play your game because you know Mike on the floor, your idol gonna be out there on the floor. You're not gonna play your game. And like and I was. I was, I would start struck. But when that ball went up and somebody hand touched it, it just went away. You know what I mean. Was showtime time to dance. That's what I tell people. The very first time I met him, I was on an elevator. He was on there with his as his first wife Nita, back in Atlanta the Super Bowl, and I'm looking at him and he probably looking at me like this, dude, where I know who he is? He like, but he looked at it. He looking at me like I was like, he like he would levitating. He didn't look real. I like, man, it was like it was like I'm talking about It's the closest thing. You know in the Bible they talk about how the disciples they saw they saw in the black. He don't even look to this day. Every time I see him, he don't look real. I've never I've never been like that with a man before in my life, and I've met some big times. I've seen family jail Man from Samuel Jackson, Lero and shot Kobe. But then hell, when it comes to that, he'll apart. He ain't real. I'm right there with you. I'm right, I understand exactly how you feel. The only time that I had experience like that is I was coming in from an All Star I was coming in from somewhere at an All Star game, and everybody walked up to me. They was exciting because everybody didn't know how I feel about Michael Jackson, anybody that know, Like before the games and all that, I listened Mike, you know what I mean, Like I gotta get up by listening to Mike. And he walked and he walked in the hotel and I came in after, and everybody was like, Chuck Jordan, I mean, Michael Jackson just came here, and I felt faint, man, And I was so happy that I see him because I thought I was gonna be all on the internet or whatever, you know, Like I thought I was gonna really pass out like one of them fans, you know what I mean, Like, that's how much I love that man. Man, And I didn't even see him, and I felt I was a song he felt. I felt faint, bruh. And I understand. I'm like, okay, now I understand what them fans be going through when they sing him, because you know, Mike, you jump on the stage and don't say nothing for a few minutes, and everybody just know this man. They started singing. Yeah, he say, let a simmer. He said, he's gonna say that. He just come on the stage. He just standing. He say, let a simmer. You let that man. Yeah, they don't just keep it foking, just let it simmer. Obviously, when you when you grow up, like when you grow up, like we grow up, we all bit, you know, we all dreamed when I Miami. Advice was huge when I was growing up, and I just remember saying, I'm gonna get me some money. I'm gonna get me a Ferrari, I'm gonna get me a roll Lex, I'm gonna get imna. I'm gonna be I'm gonna be cracking in tubs. I'm gonna be dressing like that. What's some of the white when you were growing up. What was some of the things they go now that you was like, when I get me some money, Oh I'm getting that, yeah, chuck man. Me and my mom, Me and my mom was always me and my mom was like I don't know, since I can remember five six years old, five years five and six years old, man, my mom was always infactuated with jewelry. Okay, always since I was a since I was a small kid, five six years old. Now, I remember being at Georgetown and uh Tupac, well, it was it all. I was on me ye where he had the jewelry lex and all that, and I remember that album covered and I was I was telling my teammates like, you know, when I get drafted, you know what I mean, that's one of the things I'm gonna get, you know what. I'm give me a Rolex, and I'm gonna give me some jewelry, like like Tupac. And I think even like buying my mom a crib. I think that was the obviously that was the best, you know, for me in my own but even with all the cars and all that, like that was the best of me for that moment right there, you know, for to be so young and always loved jewelry like that, and to be able to afford it, to get whatever I wanted and get my mom whatever she wanted, you know, because we were so infactuated with jewelry. That was it. That was it for me, and for me it was it was. It was a bins always. I just always wanted. I always wanted the bins Man. And you know, obviously I didn't go I didn't get drafted as high as I wanted to. So my first bins I got was a CLK four thirty. That was the small, that was the small, too thor And I'll never forget that I got it when I played that season. I bought it home for the summer and I went to see Hall and I'm thinking, I'm stunting on the campus and I pull up in my old high school point guard named Shaheen Holloway. I pull up and I get out. He's like, your big asses got out, that little ass, hey out. Listen. Let me see it. Let me let me see if you if you had this moment when you first got it, when you first got it, was you nervous in it, driving away like you thought you was gonna wreck it or something Hell yeah, bro, I couldn't even get out the drop. It was crazy, just throw different. Hey, I thought I was gonna wreck. I was driving. I'm talking about straight up driving, Miss Daisy Man. I have both hands on the wheel. See, pushed all the way up one no cool, laid it back and all that. I was so scared. I was that I had never been in the best before. You know what I mean, Hey, We're gonna get you here. We're gonna get you out of here on this. We can't let you go. You say you was you was in awe of Jordan. But you cross that man up? How you gonna cross that man up? And then talk about you at all him in the same breath. Okay, Because Shannon, the guy that taught me to cross over to walk on at a walk on at Georgetown and he never never played, never got in the game, but he don't want to, you know, taught me to move because he used to hit me with it at practice all the time, and my ego, I just put it to the side and said, look, man, you gotta teach me that. You gotta gotta teach me the movie called me to move. And I used to always remember telling my family and my friends, my teammates, like if I got the opportunity that I was gonna try my move against the best player that I've ever seen play the game, and it just I'll never forget the moment, obviously, but I always to hear that voice in my head when Phil Jackson said, Michael on the switch and he stepped out, and I was like, Okay, he a the moment, and I'm not gonna be scared of it, you know what I mean. I said, I was gonna do what I was gonna do, so I'm gonna try. So when I tried the little and he bet on the little one, that's when I said, oh yeah, he bet on a little When you said when I come up, he told me. One day I went to a I went to a I went to a shotte because I live in Sharotte, so I went to a shootte horn his game and uh, he had me come in and we're in the back and me and him just you know, sitting back and drinking and reminiscent or whatever. And I was like, man, I love you, man, and he was like, you don't love me a little bit? Like man, and everybody in the room just bust out laughing. Man, it was crazy. Hey, congratulations al all, just a was just a cast there washing he cast a. Yeah, that's all. Congratulations man, Biolos doing big things. Congratulations on the business, Ai, Congratulations on the partnership. Hell of a career. Hell of a career for both of you, guys. Thanks for stopping by a club shah and give me a couple of minutes of your time. Thanks man, love, appreciate it. All my life and grinding all my life sacrifice hustle back price one a slice, got the Broner dice to swap all my life. I've been grinding all my life, all my life, the grinding all my life sacrifice, hustle back price, one a slice, got the Brola dice to swap all my life. I've been grinding in all my life.