When spiritual heroes fall, what happens to our faith—and that of our children? Financial manipulation and abuse within the church can leave deep wounds, shaking the foundation of trust and faith for entire families.

In this powerful episode of Christian Parent/Crazy World, host Catherine tackles one of the most urgent and painful issues affecting Christian families today: how to respond when trusted church leaders become charlatans, using their position for financial—or even sexual—exploitation. With real-life stories, audio clips, and biblical insight, this episode equips parents to guide their children through disappointment without abandoning the truth of the Gospel.

Joining Catherine is featured guest Clifton Payne Jr., pastor, writer, Hebrew University scholar, and author of What the Bible Really Says About Tithing and Giving: It’s Different Than You Think. Having left the faith for fourteen years after witnessing financial abuse firsthand, Clifton Payne Jr. brings both scholarly expertise and personal experience to this heart-wrenching discussion.

What You’ll Discover in This Episode:
Financial Abuse—A Widespread Scandal: Hear stories of pastors manipulating the vulnerable, including Clifton Payne Jr.’s grandmother and infamous televangelists promising “seed money” blessings for thousand-dollar gifts.
Charlatans Across Denominations: It’s not just one stream of Christianity; financial and sexual misconduct strike churches everywhere—from charismatic circles to mainline denominations to the Catholic church.
The Impact on Faith and Family: Discover why these betrayals don’t just hurt individuals—they threaten the faith of the next generation. Catherine lays bare how hypocrisy often drives children and parents alike away from church and sometimes, from God.
Biblical Wisdom for Difficult Days: Get to the heart of the Bible’s teachings on money, tithing, and generosity. Clifton Payne Jr. strips away manipulation, revealing how God’s desire for our hearts is profoundly different from the “prosperity gospel” sales pitch.
Honest Conversations at Home: Learn how to talk with your children about church scandals—without letting cynicism win. Public harm requires public correction, and as Christian parents, we are called to shepherd our homes by telling the truth.

Why This Matters:
This episode will challenge, grieve, and encourage you to see beyond the headlines and scandals. It’s a reminder that our faith must be rooted in Christ, not in flawed messengers. When parents grapple honestly with church failures and model God-honoring generosity, they provide children with a foundation that lasts beyond any scandal.

Modern Application:
Christian parents, are you prepared to shepherd your children through disappointment in the church? Are you modeling discernment, generosity, and faith that isn’t shaken by human failure?

About the Guest:
Clifton Payne Jr. is a pastor, writer, and biblical scholar with advanced study at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. His experiences with church financial abuse and long journey back to faith uniquely equip him to address manipulative money tactics and help families find biblical clarity in confusing times. His book, What the Bible Really Says About Tithing and Giving: It’s Different Than You Think, is available on Amazon and other major booksellers.

EPISODE LINKS:
Clifton Payne Jr.’s Book: What the Bible Really Says About Tithing and Giving: It’s Different Than You Think
Subscribe to Catherine's resources for Christian parents on her website.
Mike Winger’s Expose on Shawn Bolz & Bethel Church: The Skeletons in Bethel’s Closet Are Now Going to Speak
Televangelists: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver

Call to Action:
How are you preparing your children to discern truth in a world full of spiritual counterfeits? What honest conversations could you start this week—even in the face of heartbreak—to root their faith in Jesus, not fallen heroes?

Tune in next week as Catherine and Clifton Payne Jr. dig deeper into what the Bible really teaches about tithing and giving—setting your family free from confusion and manipulation.

When spiritual heroes fall, what happens to our faith&mdash;and that of our children? Financial manipulation and abuse within the church can leave deep wounds, shaking the foundation of trust and faith for entire families.
In this powerful episode of Christian Parent/Crazy World, host Catherine tackles one of the most urgent and painful issues affecting Christian families today: how to respond when trusted church leaders become charlatans, using their position for financial&mdash;or even sexual&mdash;exploitation. With real-life stories, audio clips, and biblical insight, this episode equips parents to guide their children through disappointment without abandoning the truth of the Gospel.
Joining Catherine is featured guest Clifton Payne Jr., pastor, writer, Hebrew University scholar, and author of What the Bible Really Says About Tithing and Giving: It&rsquo;s Different Than You Think. Having left the faith for fourteen years after witnessing financial abuse firsthand, Clifton Payne Jr. brings both scholarly expertise and personal experience to this heart-wrenching discussion.
What You&rsquo;ll Discover in This Episode:
<ul>
<li>Financial Abuse&mdash;A Widespread Scandal: Hear stories of pastors manipulating the vulnerable, including Clifton Payne Jr.&rsquo;s grandmother and infamous televangelists promising &ldquo;seed money&rdquo; blessings for thousand-dollar gifts.</li>
<li>Charlatans Across Denominations: It&rsquo;s not just one stream of Christianity; financial and sexual misconduct strike churches everywhere&mdash;from charismatic circles to mainline denominations to the Catholic church.</li>
<li>The Impact on Faith and Family: Discover why these betrayals don&rsquo;t just hurt individuals&mdash;they threaten the faith of the next generation. Catherine lays bare how hypocrisy often drives children and parents alike away from church and sometimes, from God.</li>
<li>Biblical Wisdom for Difficult Days: Get to the heart of the Bible&rsquo;s teachings on money, tithing, and generosity. Clifton Payne Jr. strips away manipulation, revealing how God&rsquo;s desire for our hearts is profoundly different from the &ldquo;prosperity gospel&rdquo; sales pitch.</li>
<li>Honest Conversations at Home: Learn how to talk with your children about church scandals&mdash;without letting cynicism win. Public harm requires public correction, and as Christian parents, we are called to shepherd our homes by telling the truth.</li>
</ul>
Why This Matters: This episode will challenge, grieve, and encourage you to see beyond the headlines and scandals. It&rsquo;s a reminder that our faith must be rooted in Christ, not in flawed messengers. When parents grapple honestly with church failures and model God-honoring generosity, they provide children with a foundation that lasts beyond any scandal.
Modern Application: Christian parents, are you prepared to shepherd your children through disappointment in the church? Are you modeling discernment, generosity, and faith that isn&rsquo;t shaken by human failure?
About the Guest: Clifton Payne Jr. is a pastor, writer, and biblical scholar with advanced study at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. His experiences with church financial abuse and long journey back to faith uniquely equip him to address manipulative money tactics and help families find biblical clarity in confusing times. His book, What the Bible Really Says About Tithing and Giving: It&rsquo;s Different Than You Think, is available on Amazon and other major booksellers.
EPISODE LINKS:
<ul>
<li>Clifton Payne Jr.&rsquo;s Book: <a href="https://www.amazon.com/What-Bible-About-Tithing-Giving/dp/B0DQFK89JC/ref=sr_1_1?crid=27TKEKFSA3PWA&amp;dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.vkjTxZKvpnEqJktsyZ3h1NOBYDKmjJzaXFJ2iiG8vKkYuj5QV2D_vXFD8jOSdxoHufcD_a9MaMHF8cUKi0xtLB4H-sVr_rsXx01qYpfMdaU.upG-s-bmI_0-YkGxsrzwzOMJSKfn-oW_4b6bFHjiqhk&amp;dib_tag=se&amp;keywords=What+the+Bible+Really+Says+about+Tithing+and+Giving&amp;nsdOptOutParam=true&amp;qid=1769901043&amp;sprefix=what+the+bible+really+says+about+tithing+and+giving%2Caps%2C141&amp;sr=8-1">What the Bible Really Says About Tithing and Giving: It&rsquo;s Different Than You Think</a></li>
<li>Subscribe to Catherine's resources for Christian parents on her <a href="https://catherinesegars.com/resources">website</a>.</li>
<li>Mike Winger&rsquo;s Expose on Shawn Bolz &amp; Bethel Church: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH05S53QlY0">The Skeletons in Bethel&rsquo;s Closet Are Now Going to Speak</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg">Televangelists: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver</a></li>
</ul>
Call to Action: How are you preparing your children to discern truth in a world full of spiritual counterfeits? What honest conversations could you start this week&mdash;even in the face of heartbreak&mdash;to root their faith in Jesus, not fallen heroes?
Tune in next week as Catherine and Clifton Payne Jr. dig deeper into what the Bible really teaches about tithing and giving&mdash;setting your family free from confusion and manipulation.

The Christian Parent, Crazy World podcast with Catherine Segars equips moms and dads to be godly parents in a world that often opposes their faith. As a passionate apologist and seasoned communicator, Catherine unpacks the tough cultural issues facing families today, offering insightful, biblically grounded guidance. Each episode helps parents understand the challenges of our times and respond with wisdom, confidence, and grace.

Topics covered on this podcast include:
What to Do If Your Child Walks Away from the Faith
Can Our Words Change the Future?
Why Are So Many Kids Falling Away from The Faith?
13 Ways To Be a Better Parent This Year
5 Things Every Parent Needs to Know About Gen Z
What Critical Foundation Do Many Parents Miss When Discipling Their Kids?
How To Teach Your Kids the Christian Worldview 
Hope and Strategy for Parents of Prodigal Children

Want to read some of Catherine's most popular Christian parenting articles? Check them out here: https://www.crosswalk.com/author/catherine-segars/

The Christian Parent, Crazy World&nbsp;podcast with Catherine Segars equips moms and dads to be godly parents in a world that often opposes their faith. As a passionate apologist and seasoned communicator, Catherine unpacks the tough cultural issues facing families today, offering insightful, biblically grounded guidance. Each episode helps parents understand the challenges of our times and respond with wisdom, confidence, and grace.
Topics covered on this podcast include:
<ul>
<li>What to Do If Your Child Walks Away from the Faith</li>
<li>Can Our Words Change the Future?</li>
<li>Why Are So Many Kids Falling Away from The Faith?</li>
<li>13 Ways To Be a Better Parent This Year</li>
<li>5 Things Every Parent Needs to Know About Gen Z</li>
<li>What Critical Foundation Do Many Parents Miss When Discipling Their Kids?</li>
<li>How To Teach Your Kids the Christian Worldview&nbsp;</li>
<li>Hope and Strategy for Parents of Prodigal Children</li>
</ul>
Want to read some of Catherine's most popular Christian parenting articles? Check them out here: https://www.crosswalk.com/author/catherine-segars/

Christian Parent, Crazy World is a podcast dedicated to helping you be a godly parent in an ungodly world.

Christian Parent, Crazy World

Christian Parent Crazy World

When Leaders Exploit the Flock: A Biblical Response to Scandals ( w/ Clifton Payne Jr.) - Ep. 175

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/5e27a451-e6e6-4c51-aa03-a7370003783c/clips/f4e99aec-cb1a-4eaf-b048-b3e4007e4be4/transcript