Linda's Journey

Published Jan 28, 2025, 9:10 PM

On our next Chris Fabry Live, hear the spiritual journey of one woman. She tried to find contentment in many things before she found what Jesus offered. Now she's serving as a chaplain in a county jail, encouraging the staff. Don't miss Linda's journey on Chris Fabry Live.

Resource:
Article: Churches: How to Offer a Chaplain Who Solely Supports Jail Staff

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Real life, real stories, real people, real change. That's what we talk about in some shape or form every day. Here on Chris Fabry Live today at the radio backyard Fence. I had promoted a different topic for our conversation, and we're going to come back to that. But we found out last night that Linda can join us. Linda, Linda, Linda, you are going to hear her story. And my guess is there's somebody listening right now who needs the encouragement that Linda is about to give, about the power of God to do exceedingly, abundantly more than we can ask or imagine. We'll get to her story straight ahead here on Chris Fabry Live. Thank you for joining us, telling others about this. Get together about the podcast or listen live. Let me also thank Ryan McConaughey doing all things technical. Trisha is in the chair today. Our producer Tara will be answering your calls and a huge thank you. If you've supported this program, you are part of making these conversations happen every single day, weekday. And I don't want you to miss out on this month's resource. That has been a boon to my heart. The last six months I've been reading these 50 poems in a book called Pilgrim Prayers for the last six months, and the devotions and the poems in there. There are phrases and lines that are sticking to my soul, mainly because the people who wrote these lived in a different time, a different period of history and their struggles. Speak to you and me in a powerful way. I can't say this strongly enough. Get a copy of Pilgrim Prayers. It'll do something in your soul if you let it. It's a literary charcuterie. Don't miss it. Go to npr.org. Scroll down. Give a gift of any size before the end of the week. The end of the month, which is Friday. Or you can call 86695 Febry give a one time gift of any size. You can sign up to give monthly. Run! Do not walk Chris Fabry live. Org or call us at (866) 953-2279. I am convinced you will thank me at some point down the road when you read through and you let these poems. Tim Challies collated them in Pilgrim prayers. You going to thank me? Okay. Go to the website Chris Fabry Live, where you're also going to find out about our friend today, our new friend. An email came from a mutual friend who said, basically, Chris, I know the program that you'd like to do, I know your heart. You need to have Lind on. And she described Linda a little bit. Linda's been single, never married. She's now retired. And then my friend says God opened a door for her. That's an amazing story. So today you're going to hear from Linda Arns. Did I get that right, Linda? That's fine. Okay. Linda. Arns. I'm not going to say any more about you, Linda. Welcome. How you doing.

Today? I'm great. Thank you. I'm excited.

Before we get to the present that take me to your past. You grew up in the Detroit area. Probably you listened to Ernie Harwell on the radio or when you were a kid, right?

Uh, no, I didn't hear of him.

You didn't hear Ernie Harwell. Okay. The Detroit Tigers is who I'm thinking about. So you did. You did, uh, get into dance and music, though, didn't you?

Yeah. Yeah, I played the violin, and I loved dancing. I loved dancing. Motown.

Motown. Okay. All right. And there was somebody that was right down the street from you that had a studio or something. Is that.

Right? Oh, yeah. It was the the Motown expert. You know, back then, they were just creating all the fabulous music in their studios. They were just brilliant people. There's still no music as great as that.

What did you want to do or be when you grew up? Did you have an idea?

No, I never really thought about it. I just kind of was going one day to the next. I had a very full schedule in life. I was in lots of different activities in school and then college. I guess I just liked, wanted to be happy, I wanted friends, um, I took good health for granted. And, and, you know, I just was kind of just blindly going through life. I really didn't give it a lot of thought.

Did you want to get married? Did you have the idea? Oh, I'd like to be married.

No, that was never really a strong goal of mine. I like guys, and and I like dancing with them, but I. Yeah, I never really had that as a goal.

Got it. So you go to Michigan State, you study journalism. Marketing? Yes. What happened to you there? What were any changes then?

Yeah, there. I really got heavily into the world, into drinking and drugs and just partying and never found any satisfaction in Satisfaction in those, but I didn't know there was an alternative.

So you were in a sense, you were searching. You wound up, you did a lot of different things, but you went to Montana in the 80s. You had chickens. Is that.

Right? Yeah, I had chickens, split wood for heat and all that sort of thing. And, uh, again, I was hunting. I kept trying all these different things. You know, I lived briefly in Yugoslavia. I tried that, and, you know, it's just nothing. Satisfied? I kept trying different things. Started different businesses. Some worked really well, some failed. Uh, so God made me very able to pursue things. I then I was trying different spiritual things like tarot cards and witchcraft and transcendental meditation. So I certainly was exploring and trying, but I. I never felt satisfied. Yeah.

So then you moved to Chicago at some point, and and you start going to this church. Tell me more about that. Was that a big change?

Well, I only went because I was lonely when I first moved here, and I only heard about this one church because they had a volleyball game, and I. So I didn't even know what that was. But I went. And so it's a church that doesn't exist anymore called Near North Church. But everybody there had this peace about them, and I really wanted it. It didn't matter if they lost their jobs or their homes. They were peaceful and confident and relaxed, and I envied that. And it all came to this guy called Jesus that they they were putting their faith in. And it didn't make any sense to me.

So all of that searching that you've done, the different religions, the tarot cards and all of that led you to this place to consider who Jesus was, and you believed in him as a historical figure, but it really didn't make a difference, right?

You know, I guess that's true. I hadn't even thought about him much as history. I just thought he was a real popular guy back then, which, you know, wasn't even accurate. But, uh, yeah, I just thought, well, he wasn't God. I didn't need a middle man if I wanted to pray. That's what I kept saying. I don't need a middle man. I can just talk to God.

Yes.

What changed then? How did. How did you get over the hump of who Jesus really was?

Well, I tried for three years. I let him hold a Bible study, this small church in my in my apartment every week. And I listened to this and read the Bible with him for three years, and I gave up. I thought, you know, I just can't get this thing about Jesus. It doesn't make any sense to me that God would come to earth, be a human, and die for me. So I decided one night I said, God, I'm giving up. If you want me to believe that that's your problem, I'm not going to try anymore. And I was so relieved that I just was giving it up. I felt this burden lift and I went to bed happily. I went to sleep and I woke up the next day and had no doubt that Jesus was God and had died for my sin. He was just waiting for me to give it up, I guess.

Wow. So it was a process and that's going to see. I'm thinking of the different people who are going to hear this, and we're going to get to some really good stuff. But this is good stuff right here that there's somebody listening who's been praying for someone, and you've had a Bible study with them for three years and you think you're going to give up. You don't know what's going to turn the light on for that person, do you?

That's right. I've never heard of two walks that are the same. God has got a lot of creativity.

Yeah.

So when you believe, then that next day and then the succeeding days, weeks, months, years. How did that change your life? What did you do with that?

Wow. God just changed everything. I no longer kept hunting or trying different things. I settled right down. I've now lived in the same place for like 30 some years. Um, I just, you know, I lost interest. I didn't want drugs anymore. I didn't, you know, I didn't want to get drunk. I didn't have a wild life, you know? I just was so content in doing things that were helping others and going to church and reading the Bible and learning about the Bible and scripture and learning about evangelism. And it was Moody Church. You know, that, uh, taught me.

Yeah.

And it was there you worked with children. You also went into the the local jail prison and started reaching out to inmates. And that's where part of the story is going to coalesce here. As we continue with Linda Arns, you can find out about her@chris.org. I'll tell you the the longer introduction to her here in a minute because I wanted to give it away. But there's something that she wants to tell you about what God has done in her life through her. And we're going to talk about it straight ahead here on Chris Fabry Live. Go to the website today Chris Fabry live.org. You'll see more about Linda Barnes a h r e n s she's a volunteer Chapman at the Cook County Sheriff's Office in Chicago. But not the chaplain that you think of. She's a chaplain to staff, as well as chaplain and member of the board of directors for the American Jail Association. You can find out more about her. As a matter of fact, we've linked your testimony, your YouTube testimony at the website. Go to npr.org. Trisha said, I have to ask you this. And so I'm going to because I listened to her, um, prison and jail. What's the difference between those two?

Yeah. You know, I thought the terms were Terms were synonymous. When our church started going in to visit inmates at Cook County Jail in Chicago. But a jail is typically where the arrested are held awaiting their trials, and then the prison is where they serve the sentence if they're found guilty. So, you know, that's an oversimplification, but it's quite different. The jails are run by the county governments. So there's about 3000 jails in the country. And the prisons are run by the state or federal governments. So there's fewer facilities of those?

Yes.

So when I say that you're a volunteer chaplain, did you did you start as a volunteer chaplain or did you just go in and meet with inmates in that very first time? What? In other words, what drew you to want to go into a cell block?

Well, it was never really my idea. I was bored on Saturdays. I wanted something to do. And our church Had Mary Lohman started this ministry, she said, let's go into the women inmates at the at the jail on Saturdays. And I thought, well, yeah, good, that'll give me something to do. So none of this was ever my my plan, really. So I just went in and I really loved spending time with the inmates. And so I would go in every Saturday for an hour and a half because a religious volunteer, you're you're given a specific day and time and location within the jail. And so I was doing that. Um, but then one day, a deputy in the cell that I was in wanted to enter and didn't seem very happy at all that I was coming in or that I was there. And, you know, I, I felt really intimidated. But, um, as I was getting the inmates organized for the Bible lesson, I remembered God's Word. He always says, you know, do not fear. Don't be anxious. Don't be worried. So I forced myself to walk back to the deputy and I said, is there anything I could pray for you? And it turns out that this deputy wasn't disliking me at all. She was just trying to hold it together. She shared her horrific things going on in her family and her life. So many incidents and stresses. And she was crying. And then she said the key thing, she said. So I went to my grandmother's house because she has a Bible, and I'm trying to figure out if God is doing something. And I said, wow, would you like a Bible? And me to tell you how to show you how to read it? She said, yeah, I'd really like that. So then I realized, wow, these officers, they need spiritual love and support too. So then I just asked the jail, could I have please authority approval to come in for one more hour a week just to meet with these handful of Handful of officers on this one floor of this one division. And again, that, you know, God came into the fro because the director that I met with said, nice idea, but no way. We never give anything to a few staff. But if you want to come in and rove and meet with all of our staff and give them chaplain services that you could do. But there was two requirements. And I'm sitting there stunned, thinking I just wanted one hour with five officers, you know, and here she's opening the jail to me anytime, any day. I mean, what a privilege to be around these wonderful correctional officers. Um, the things that they handle is amazing. And she explained the need to me. The jail was really trying to support and encourage the staff because it is the I believe it's the toughest job anyone can do.

Let's go into that. Tell me, tell me what is tough because you give a different statistics and I've seen those. But what is a correctional officer? One thing they go through is their unseen, you know. Patrol officers are seen, you know, do they go behind the razor wire or they go into the facility and you don't see them, so they're out of sight. Out of mind. Right?

Exactly. Um, my nickname for them is Hidden Heroes, because they're they're hidden from the public. I know God sees everything they do, and he loves them, but they are hidden from the public, so they don't get public encouragement. And the work they do truly is heroic. I mean, they they take care of, you know, like an average officer on a tear would be taking care of, say, 40 inmates, getting them their their meals, their meds, their commissary, their bedding. Make sure that they get to their classes, get to their visitation, their recreation, uh, their meals every, everything. And at the same time, be on alert. Break up fights and a lot of them get injured when inmates are fighting and they break them up. And their hours are so tough. You know, this is 24 over seven 365. They don't necessarily get like everybody else gets off, um, on weekends or holidays. You know, government closes on big holidays, right? But not at the jails. They still have to be there because the inmates need to be cared for.

And when Covid.

Happened, then.

That.

Just amped up, didn't it?

Great point. Yeah. Because overnight they spread out the inmates from two men's cells to individual. But you don't double your staff overnight. So they were working many times 16 hours instead of eight. Um, and all these stresses and demands on them lead to early death. The the correctional officers in our country have a life expectancy of about 56 years. They die about 20 years sooner than the rest of the U.S. population, and they have the highest divorce and suicide and PTSD rates. So they need love. They deserve it. They work so hard. They do so much for so many people. And they are hidden, just like you said. They're unseen. They're unrecognized.

Yeah.

Um, so back up. When you went in to just do the an hour and a half on the weekend, you said, I. I just loved it, I loved. What was it that when you went in for the inmate? What did you love about that?

Well, our culture is not very interested in listening, uh, to the lessons from the Bible. And when you're in a jail and you have nothing to do or little to do, you look. You like variety. And so it's great having an audience, you know, because our church used to go out in the street and talk to people and, you know, people wouldn't stop. But at the jail, you know, you have an audience. It's great. Yeah.

Exactly.

The same thing because, you know, my friend Joe Carlson, who I call Joe the prayer guy. Affectionately Joe the prayer guy. And Joe said the same thing when he started doing the going into the jail meeting with the inmates. He said, you know, he'd been working with radio pastor Donald Cole and taking calls for your Bible question, which Doctor Melnick does now take your Bible question? He said, Chris, these guys that are in there that I'm meeting with, they're looking at the Bible, they're reading it, and they're asking, is, is this real? Is this true? Can I really go to God like this? Like it says in here, you know, and and hungry. Really hungry for answers. Not that other people aren't hungry, but sitting on the edge of their seat. He said, I'll read this passage of scripture that I've read a thousand times, and for them, it's like the first time I've ever heard it. So he came alive when he was telling me that story. And my guess is the same thing happened with you.

Yes, I really, really enjoyed it. But when I was given the offer to just serve the staff instead, I know that churches across the country send in people to support the inmates, but the American Jail Association last year did a survey and I couldn't find we couldn't find almost any jails in the country where churches send in chaplains dedicated solely to the staff. They don't think of them just like I didn't until, you know, I've been there a while and, you know, they're first responders. That's the other thing they do. They're putting out fires and floods. You know, they cut down inmates who are trying to suicide. They do CPR on them. They they're just amazing people. And so this is a big eye opener that churches are not serving the staff. They're great at serving the inmates. But, you know, when I was asked to do this, I was given two requirements. One was that I had to give up supporting the inmates. And the first day I walked into a tear where I used to go in for the inmates, I was really nervous because I thought, oh dear, this is going to be awkward because they think the inmates are going to think I'm coming in for them, but I'm not. I'm coming in for the officer. And I walked in and sure enough, the inmate said, hi, Linda, welcome back. And I said, I'm sorry, I'm I'm not here any longer for you. I'm here now as a chaplain to the staff. And these inmates cheered. They went, oh, that's so nice. Our officers need help, too. And I was so I was amazed, and it brought tears to my eyes that the inmates recognize more than the average person on the street, that the officers deserve to be valued and supported to. So that was the first requirement. If I can continue on that. Okay. And then the second requirement was that I had to rove the jail. I couldn't sit somewhere and just wait to be called. And that's because when people are busy and exhausted, they can't go make an appointment. And that's not going to help them if they have to schedule and drive somewhere or in our our jail. It's a big long walk from one division to another. So it was something to be convenient to them and also to show them that they're a priority. And then if you're going from cell block to cell block to every on duty officer, there's no stigma in anybody being seen to talk to the chaplain because everybody's talking to her. But the main thing is that when somebody is in distress, they're just trying to get through their day and they don't reach out for help because Argyle has great peer support and they have an EAP program, an employment assistance program with counselors. But what I find is that often people in despair, just these officers, they're trying to be tough and get through the day like the one I encountered. For example, one day I met with this officer, said, how are things going on the shift? And he was saying, oh, it's fine. And then I offered him a sheet that I carry that offers materials. I said, is there anything you'd like to read today? And he said, yeah, could I have the one on grief? I said, sure, and I handed it to him. May I ask, have you lost somebody recently? And then this officer shared, my father committed suicide yesterday, and here he is serving at the jail saying he's okay. And, you know, this is I encounter so Encounter so many situations at the jail of people in pain that are just trying to do their job, get through the day, provide for their family and get home. But they need. They need chaplains to come around and check in with them so that it conveniently, they can share what's on their heart and mind.

Yeah, that's the.

Silent pain that you're talking about. Things that are going on outside, as well as things that are going on, the trauma that they've been through to try to help someone or they get injured in a scuffle there, and they're trying to do the right thing and they pay the price for it. All of those things go into. And the other thing I was thinking of is the hyper vigilance that you have to be, you know, you could be relational. You got to do your job. You got to make sure that everything is going right. But you also have to take care of you have to sense what's going on and not going on in front of you. Right?

That's the perfect description of it. Of it hypervigilance. Because even when they get off shift and they they may be out shopping or go out to a restaurant, they don't relax because there's people in the population that used to be at the jail who may not have good intentions toward them, and so they never really let that adrenaline drop. And it's, you know, there have been incidents where there's been attacks on officers from former inmates. Yes. Horrific situations. So it's, um, that's part of that stress that wears them down and leads to the short lifespan. And this is, you know, they can't get to church, a lot of them with their schedules. And so this is why the church really needs to consider, you know, particularly if they've already got a team going into the inmates. At least one person should go to that jail administration and say, hey, can I just solely come and support the staff because, I mean, it's great to for a volunteer to inmates to also stop by and talk to the officer there. But then the officer knows they're not your first priority. They deserve to be the first priority. And let us let them know of the value that their work is.

And that's one.

Of the reasons why I wanted to have Linda Ahrens on here today, to tell you that because she works in Chicago. She's at the Cook County Jail. It's the sheriff's office there. And I'm going to get some of this wrong. But you know my heart. You know my heart. But there are there are correctional facilities around the country. There are jails around the country. There are prisons around the country that have nobody who is looking out for those who are staff members. And I wanted you to hear Linda's heart here today, because the light bulb is going to go on for on for somebody. And then I want you to answer the question. How did God meet you then? How did he equip you to do what you've done? And what are the some of the things that have happened that you haven't asked or imagined that have happened to you? We're going to talk about that. Linda Ahrens is with us. If you want to call, here's the number (877) 548-3675. We'd love to hear from you. (877) 548-3675. Real people, real life. We're here in Linda's story today at the radio backyard fence. And it is clear to me Linda had a calling on her life and people God called her to encourage and minister to with God's Word with just a listening ear. Carnet is a ministry that also wants to mobilize the mobilize the church as a life lighthouse for those who are considering abortion. They are not just pro-life care net, they are pro abundant life, which means life for the unborn, as well as the pregnant mom, the the father of the baby, and everybody around who's influencing those people making that decision. January Sanctity of Human Life Month. They want to equip you with a free resource that can help you and those at your church make a difference right there in your community. It's the Sanctity of Human Life toolkit. You can download it free right now if you want to make a tangible impact about this issue. Click that link today at the website, you'll find practical steps for you and your church. Go to npr.org. Click the green net link right there and you'll see that free toolkit that I mentioned. It's free. It is. Just go to npr.org and click the Green Care Net link today. Linda Arns is her name. You can find out more about her at Chris Fabriclive. Org. Before we go, I want to hear more about the story, but I want John to get in here in Indiana. John, why did you call today?

I was a deputy sheriff in Cincinnati. I worked in the jail for three and a half years. Linda, what you're doing is fantastic. She's not even telling you the half of it. And I wish there were more people like her.

Amen. Oh. Thank you. Amen.

Thank you for your service, John. Thank you.

Yes.

Okay, John, when you say she's not telling the half of it, tell me the other half of it. What? What is what are those correctional officers going through?

You couldn't talk about it on your show.

That's true.

It's you're you're working 12 hour shifts. You're going to get hit for an extra four. So you're going to go to work for 12 hours. You're going to wind up working there 16 hours. Um, I weighed myself as far as all the equipment I wore. It was about 35 extra pounds. I was walking anywhere from 4 to 6 miles a shift and that included stairs. I would go up almost a 40 story building. Um, you are dealing with very difficult people in very difficult circumstances. And what she talks about the stress, it is very, very real. The danger is very, very real. I had an incident. You are running two calls once or twice a shift. Easy. We had the nicest old man who used to come in and do sermons on Sunday. He was very kind, uh, and he was very well-meaning. Uh, he tried to ask us how we were doing, but he just kind of wasn't the right person for it. So it takes a special person. Linda, you seem like you have.

Yes, John.

Yes she does. Go ahead. Liza.

Poor. You know, I just I just love the officers. They're so amazing. Their resilience to do what they do and, you know, the amount of steps. And the other thing that's so impressive, which you don't see around in our culture anymore, is the self-control that these officers have confronted with, uh, threats, uh, situations, personalities that nobody sees on the outside. And yet they have self-control to de-escalate patients. They may not be feeling it inside, but that's what they exhibit. They are incredible role models for the world. You know, they give me hope for the world when I'm around these officers. They're amazing.

John, did you are you retired now, then?

Uh, yes, yes, I retired, I went to the road, was a patrol officer and then retired.

What did those years that you spent being a correctional officer? How did that affect you then? As far as you know, you're. Did you feel like I need to get out of here? I can't do this anymore type of thing?

Oh, no. No, I loved almost every minute. I really did. So, um, I just thought it was a great opportunity. Um. And I was glad to be around all these young guys, and they are tough. This is not a church crowd. Right. Um, and it's it's it's a different environment. Um, the inmates are going to be different than any kind of person that you've ever been around. And, um, so, you know, I work murder pods. I work, you know, for the, uh, people who were, uh, what can you say on the radio? Um, the mental health. Yeah. So suicide is a huge risk for inmates. Uh, assault inmate on inmate assault. So everything she's telling you, just amp it up at about, you know, ten times what she's telling you, and you'll get close.

Yeah. No.

And I appreciate your sensitivity to all of that. And tell us about it. To me, it almost sounds like. Remember? And this happened, uh, in the Vietnam War. Then on, it was like, you get leave and you get on a plane and you come back and you're, you know, one day you're in a war zone, the next day you're at home and you're trying to figure out the PTSD and everything that's going on much the same way for a correctional officer. That happens every day. You go behind the wall and then you come out and and everything. You know, nobody knows what is going on, but you and those who are, you know, living it each day. So in a sense, you feel alone with that. Is that fair to say, John?

Uh, yeah. You're not going to going to talk about it. It's just a lot of the stories are too sad, too gross, too violent. So you're not going to go like, you know, hey, kids, you know, let me tell you how my day went. You just. And then there's going to be a week where absolutely nothing happens and you're absolutely bored to death. And then the next week, everything happens.

So. Well, that's one.

Of the things that I wrote down here is like, it's it's boring until it's not. But you have to be ready for it not to be. Right.

Oh, you're going to get you're going to hear the signal on the radio and you better sprint. Yeah.

So, well, I.

I echo what Linda said. Thanks for your service, John. And thanks for calling in here. Um, Linda, respond to to all of that. He's telling the truth, isn't he?

Oh, yeah. Definitely. There's there's many things that we can't share about. It's just so horrific. And I think this was what contributes to the divorce rate is because you can't come home and share your work, but you're still reeling from it. And so then there's this feeling of like, well, did I do something wrong? The spouse is going, how come you're not talking to me, right? And it's just very tough on relationships because you don't want to scare them to death about what you're dealing with. Um, at the jail.

You sound, though, and John said, you've got it. You know, you've been you're the kind of person that needs to go in there and to minister to the staff. But there were probably and there probably been times when you feel not equipped that you're not up for the task. How did God meet you in those times?

Oh, it's amazing what God has done. I, I when I first went there, I kept getting lost because it's very big. There's lots of tunnels, even though I was shown around once. But I remember one time I was trying to get into a place I needed to get a key. It should have been unlocked. I had been had been told, so I didn't know what to do. And I was led to this place to try to find a key. And right in there, an officer had just learned that her nephew had had decided to suicide, had set himself on fire and burned down the home. And I was there only because I couldn't get in the way I planned. And God was in that. I mean, he directed me. That was not at all where I planned to go. Another day I was going to go into a different spot, and I have been given by the jail an ID that allows me to go anywhere. But this this officer said, hey, you can't go there. And I always obeyed the wonderful officers. And I just said, oh, okay. Do you have a suggestion of where I go? And I was told to go to this other area. And I thought, okay, well, that wasn't my plan today. But when I got there, there was a horrific situation and God knew that I needed to be there. And he he has encouraged me because when I first started, I thought since I was told they'd never had a volunteer chaplain dedicated to the staff before, even though they they sent out an email and tried to let staff know. I thought, well, anybody want to talk to me? I'm not really sure. You know. And one of the very, very first officers I met said, I've been praying for 25 years that we'd have a chaplain of our own. Yay! Finally we do. You know, that was so encouraging to me. And nobody has ever said that to me since. But I needed it that day. And and so it's just God is always there helping, guiding me. And one day I was I was thinking, I'm so tired, I just can't walk anymore. I lost £10 my first year just walking and but God said, no, no. Do one more. Go one more. And I went to one more tear. I had actually turned back to leave. I went, okay, God. So I went back and There was a deputy there that I got to speak with, and he died the next week. You know, if I hadn't gone there, I wouldn't have had that chance. And so God loves these staff. He loves these officers. He cares about them. He wants us to love them. They deserve it. They are so amazing what they do. They're incredible.

I can tell the respect that you have for them and for their, um, you know, for the heart of this, that God has led you to this and that in some ways, you didn't feel equipped. You weren't the you didn't feel like you were the right person. But God loves to use those with a humble heart who want to serve him in where he calls them to be. So I'm so glad Linda Ahrens is with us now. When we come back, I want her to tell you a little more about what God has done in the in the last few years. And if you are catching a vision for this same kind of thing will give you information about that. This is Chris Fabry live on Moody Radio. Linda Ahrens is joining us today, volunteer chaplain to staff at the Cook County Sheriff's Office in Chicago, and chaplain and member of the board of directors for the American Jail Association. And before I want to do it now, because if I wait to the end, it's going to be to be too rushed. I want you to tell us if there's somebody listening right now who says, you know what, I've had a jail ministry. You know, in in mind, whether it's for inmates or whether it's like you say, for officers. I've been thinking about this. It's been pressing on the nerve. And this thing is just like God is telling me, move forward with this. What? What do they do with that?

Well, um, I would be happy to try to steer them. If anybody wants to email me at chaplains at Moody church.org. Um, then that will come to me and I can try to answer any questions and help. Um, also, the American Jail Association has put up on its website, in its publications area resources about supporting staff at the jail. So there's that available.

And we have a video.

If you click through today's information, you'll see a video of Linda. And at the end of that she gives that website again. I mean the email address chaplains which is chaplains. Plural. Right. Right. Yeah. If you don't know how to because chaplain c h a p l a I n s at Moody church.org and you'll be talking with Linda. Linda. Linda. Linda. Uh, Patrick. Patrick Patrick is in Idaho. Hi, Patrick. Why did you call today?

Yes. Hi, Linda. Thanks for taking my call. The. I've been glued to the radio since you came on. My little brother was, uh, recently, uh, a deputy sheriff, deputy in Swat. Member. And to your point that the prison corrections facility officers need hear God's word as well. That is so, so true. His amount of stress because of the shootings he was involved in, um, took its toll. And he handled it very, very well. Still married and four kids. He's now in the aviation industry, and he his stress is gone. But it was the shootings. One person did get put down early in his first three years, and he really struggled with that. Uh, I actually had to look up some information to help him because, like, he would tell my parents what he was going through with the stress from that. And then, um, that's what made me. They shared that with me. What he was going through, and I just kept hearing that from my parents that he was sharing with them. He's going through a lot of stress. A great deal of stress. Um, and the other element is officers, prison officers and deputies everywhere, even city police. It makes a huge difference if they're a believer or not. Believer. Their compassion level is different. And I've been witnessing to him still, but 23 years, 23 years, he's out of that career.

But good for.

You, Patrick. Your point that stress is there.

Yes. And it has its impact on the family. When when an officer signs up for this career, the whole family is signed up for it. So I'm sorry for all that you've all gone through. And it's a real commitment for everybody. Yeah, it's such an important work. I mean, we don't have facilities for all the mentally ill in our country. They're put in jails and To those. The officers are dealing with people who aren't rational and they haven't had the training for that. This is really there's so many elements to this career that is beyond belief, just so many challenges. So thank you. Thank you for sharing that.

Tell me about your, uh, what God has done then, because you got to be with the officers and not just one, not just a few of them. You get to Rove. And there's how many correctional officers are there? The Cook County Sheriff's Office, we.

Have about 3000 officers. It took me a year going in the three different shifts just to meet each one one time. And and I still now and then meet officers I miss because they were out on injury or maternity leave and but yeah, there's a lot of staff there because.

So what has God done then? What how has he, uh, exponentially, uh, exploded this in some ways.

Well, the great thing is there's four of us volunteer chaplains. Now, it's certainly not just me. And, you know, I'm not unique to be able to do this. Anybody who has been going in already to support inmates is already built that facility into their life. They're already credentialed and they've gone through clearances to have access. They just need to make that mental shift of heart to ask, to become supportive of just the staff. Because, for example, one of our volunteer chaplains, he's a pastor here of another church. He had six of his six officers were members of his church, but 20 of the inmates were also former members of his church. And so he was really familiar with the church already. Another one of our volunteer chaplains had been going in for 20 years as a volunteer weekly with his wife to the inmates so we can make these changes, you know, if God cares. So he will help people make the changes and switch from supporting. I mean, the harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few.

So there is some some would say, and this is one of the things in the PowerPoint that I saw that, well, you know, the needs of the inmates Trump the the officers, you know, they're they're more acute there. And you don't have to it doesn't have to be an either or, does it?

No, I mean, like our church was doing both. You know, we had women going into the women inmates. We had men going into the male inmates. And now we have a couple of us going in as chaplains to the officers. So a church could support both.

Yeah. Well, tell.

Me, give me an example of one day when you walked in and you were exhausted and you thought, I'm ready to quit this because we all have those days, you know, and you just felt like you wanted to hang it up. But something happened and you said, no, this is this is where I need to be.

Well, actually, I've never felt like that. I want to hang it up because that's the beauty of being a volunteer. When I'm really tired, I just go home, you know? So it's great. Um, but I think, um, the difference about being a chaplain is that you spend most of your time listening. You're not an evangelist, you're not doing lessons, you're listening. And God just told me, you know, spend more time just standing and going slow and listening. And that conserves energy, too. But I remember one day when I all I did is I came into the entrance where we had the external operations officers, and I just kept hanging there with them. And finally one said, after about five minutes he said, did you know so and so just died out in the parking lot. And this is this it's so common death that that wasn't even uppermost in his mind that it took that long before he thought to share. A deputy had gotten off his shift, walked across the street, got into his car, turned on the radio and the engine rolled down the window. And he died. Wow. And he was in his 40s, which, I mean, they lived to 56 on average, but they die in their 40s, so you never know what's going to happen.

Yeah. Linda. My my prayer, my hope for the conversation that we've had is that there's somebody listening. And it may not for them. It may not be. Correctional officers may not be inmates. There may be something else. But they've been holding back, holding back, holding back. And then they hear your story. And it's like, if God can do that in Linda's life, if he can use Linda this way, maybe he can do something with me and we'll take another step forward. So thanks for being honest and open and just sharing your story. God bless you, friend. Keep doing what you're doing, okay?

Thank you. None of this was my idea. Yeah. Just go for whatever. God. God opens doors, even into a jail.

I like that.

That's a that's a program idea right there. Something that was God's idea, not mine. Okay. So if you go to Chris Fabry live.org. Click through today's information. You will see that videos are just a short video about Linda. And at the end there's an email address and you can write her and you can ask a question. I'm interested in doing this or a question that you have chaplains at Moody church.org, or just go to the website and click through today's information. You'll see that right there. Chris Fabry live.org. I told you it was going to be a good conversation here at the back fence today. With a tip of the hat to Mary, who suggested we talk with Linda tomorrow. My pal John Kessler is going to be back. We're going to talk about being full of old age right here at Chris Avery live production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.

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