Welcome to our Wednesday edition of Chris Fabry Live program from the heart for the heart to the heart. For more than 17 years now, we've been coming to you with topics and guests who engage at that level. A level of the heart and returning. Today is one of my favorite people on the planet. As soon as he joined me a few years ago, I could tell there's something different about this guy. There's something special, and one thing that's happened is the way listeners, the way you have responded to his conversations, there is a depth of pain and struggle that people call in about you. Feel free to be yourself with him. And I think part of that is the vulnerability of Doctor Winifred Neely. Something good always happens when he joins me, and today we have news from him. We'll get to that. And I want to feature him as a modified Voices of Wisdom guest. He's not that far down the trail from me, but I want to hear what he has to say. So let's get going. First, a thank you to Ryan McConaughey. Doing all things technical. Tricia is our producer. Deb, Solomon's in the chair today. Anthony, you'll be answering your calls on Monday. We celebrated 17 years of Chris Fabry live. I threw out a number. I said if someone would support us with the gifts of $17 or a multiple thereof, and I could do 17 and 34, that was as far as I could get. And a listener yesterday I looked at the number and I thought, now why did Holly give that number? And I did my long division. I had to write it down, and I figured out that Holly gave 17 times. 26 Holly, you get a gold star. Thank you, thank you, thank you for your support of this program. I would love to add your name to the list if you appreciate these daily conversations. Give a gift of any size, but especially if it's a multiple of 17 and a thank you right now is the beautifully illustrated book Home Is Right Where You Are. It's by artist Ruth Joe Simons, inspired by Psalm 23. I would compare it to the book I'll Love You Forever. You know, the one that you read to kids, but this is God will love you forever, wherever you are. Imagine reading this to a child or your grandchild and letting this become a memory for the two of you that you treasure your whole lives. Call or click through today Chris Fabry, Livorno or 86695 Febry give a gift will send you home is right where you are. I also want you to use that number tomorrow. We're doing a little bit of celebrating and I would love to include you if there's a program that you really connected with a conversation in the last 17 years that was more than just a conversation for you. It kind of helped you turn a corner. Turn a page. Call that number. Leave a message. (866) 953-2279. To leave a message, you just press one. To give a gift, you press two. So call it early and often. Eight 6695 Faber or get all the information at the website. Chris Fabry live dot. Doctor Winfred Nealy is vice president and dean of Moody Theological Seminary. Former senior pastor of Judson Baptist Church in Oak Park, Illinois. Served as a missionary and pastor to Senegal, West Africa, for nine years. He and his wife, Stephanie have been married for 48 years, almost 49. They have four adult children, ten grandchildren. That may have changed. He's the author of How to Overcome Worry Experiencing the Peace of God in Every Situation. Doctor Neeley, welcome back. How you doing today?

Welcome to our Wednesday edition of Chris Fabry Live program from the heart for the heart to the heart. For more than 17 years now, we've been coming to you with topics and guests who engage at that level. A level of the heart and returning. Today is one of my favorite people on the planet. As soon as he joined me a few years ago, I could tell there's something different about this guy. There's something special, and one thing that's happened is the way listeners, the way you have responded to his conversations, there is a depth of pain and struggle that people call in about you. Feel free to be yourself with him. And I think part of that is the vulnerability of Doctor Winifred Neely. Something good always happens when he joins me, and today we have news from him. We'll get to that. And I want to feature him as a modified Voices of Wisdom guest. He's not that far down the trail from me, but I want to hear what he has to say. So let's get going. First, a thank you to Ryan McConaughey. Doing all things technical. Tricia is our producer. Deb, Solomon's in the chair today. Anthony, you'll be answering your calls on Monday. We celebrated 17 years of Chris Fabry live. I threw out a number. I said if someone would support us with the gifts of $17 or a multiple thereof, and I could do 17 and 34, that was as far as I could get. And a listener yesterday I looked at the number and I thought, now why did Holly give that number? And I did my long division. I had to write it down, and I figured out that Holly gave 17 times. 26 Holly, you get a gold star. Thank you, thank you, thank you for your support of this program. I would love to add your name to the list if you appreciate these daily conversations. Give a gift of any size, but especially if it's a multiple of 17 and a thank you right now is the beautifully illustrated book Home Is Right Where You Are. It's by artist Ruth Joe Simons, inspired by Psalm 23. I would compare it to the book I'll Love You Forever. You know, the one that you read to kids, but this is God will love you forever, wherever you are. Imagine reading this to a child or your grandchild and letting this become a memory for the two of you that you treasure your whole lives. Call or click through today Chris Fabry, Livorno or 86695 Febry give a gift will send you home is right where you are. I also want you to use that number tomorrow. We're doing a little bit of celebrating and I would love to include you if there's a program that you really connected with a conversation in the last 17 years that was more than just a conversation for you. It kind of helped you turn a corner. Turn a page. Call that number. Leave a message. (866) 953-2279. To leave a message, you just press one. To give a gift, you press two. So call it early and often. Eight 6695 Faber or get all the information at the website. Chris Fabry live dot. Doctor Winfred Nealy is vice president and dean of Moody Theological Seminary. Former senior pastor of Judson Baptist Church in Oak Park, Illinois. Served as a missionary and pastor to Senegal, West Africa, for nine years. He and his wife, Stephanie have been married for 48 years, almost 49. They have four adult children, ten grandchildren. That may have changed. He's the author of How to Overcome Worry Experiencing the Peace of God in Every Situation. Doctor Neeley, welcome back. How you doing today?

I'm very well, Chris. Thank you for having me on with you today, sir. It's always an honor for me.

I'm very well, Chris. Thank you for having me on with you today, sir. It's always an honor for me.

It's more than an honor. It's an adventure for me because you always take us to some place good. And a little bird told me that this whole vice president and dean of Moody Theological Seminary. This. There is something about the big R word. The retirement. Is that true? Is there any truth to that?

It's more than an honor. It's an adventure for me because you always take us to some place good. And a little bird told me that this whole vice president and dean of Moody Theological Seminary. This. There is something about the big R word. The retirement. Is that true? Is there any truth to that?

Well, yes. Uh, June 30th of this year will be my last day of full time service at Moody Bible Institute, and I will be stepping away from my administrative and leadership roles at Moody Theological Seminary. And but I will continue on as an adjunct professor, adjunct emeritus in a very limited in a in a limited capacity. But yes, June 30th I'm stepping away from all leadership and responsibilities retiring. I you know, I don't like the oral word. I don't like that. You know, I'm really not retiring. I'm transitioning. Yes to a new season of of ministry before the Lord is what's what's happening here.

Well, yes. Uh, June 30th of this year will be my last day of full time service at Moody Bible Institute, and I will be stepping away from my administrative and leadership roles at Moody Theological Seminary. And but I will continue on as an adjunct professor, adjunct emeritus in a very limited in a in a limited capacity. But yes, June 30th I'm stepping away from all leadership and responsibilities retiring. I you know, I don't like the oral word. I don't like that. You know, I'm really not retiring. I'm transitioning. Yes to a new season of of ministry before the Lord is what's what's happening here.

I like retreading. Yeah. You're going to get. But you know, there are other people who are in this this this season. Tis the season. And what I hear from them more and more is I'm releasing some duties that I feel like aren't in the wheelhouse of, of my gifting as much. They constrain me more. And I'm moving toward things that bring joy and life and verve to my soul. Uh, and I can do that at this season of my life. Does that describe a little bit of what you're doing?

I like retreading. Yeah. You're going to get. But you know, there are other people who are in this this this season. Tis the season. And what I hear from them more and more is I'm releasing some duties that I feel like aren't in the wheelhouse of, of my gifting as much. They constrain me more. And I'm moving toward things that bring joy and life and verve to my soul. Uh, and I can do that at this season of my life. Does that describe a little bit of what you're doing?

Well? Well, actually, yes and no. I love leadership, I love leading Moody Theological Seminary, and I'm still I was still teaching, still teaching during that time as well. But I love the leadership side of ministry. I love I'm a visionary. You know, I have a an idea of where we want to go. But I'm also a pastor and a biblical preacher at heart. Chris. I'm an expositor of the Word of God, and I was sitting in chapel several weeks ago, and the Spirit of God was speaking to me in such a wonderful way, and I could sense him saying to me, Winfred, this is not the best stewardship of what I have given to you. What do you mean by that, Lord? Well, I want you to be back in a pulpit focused on pulpit work in a way that you haven't been able to do so during the last 24 years. And I said, okay, Lord, how am I going to do that? Well, through a convergence of factors, I became very obvious to me that it was time to retire. And you're right. So this burden of of leading the seminary is being lifted off of my shoulders. I can sense that because God wants me to go back into full time ministry of preaching his word.

Well? Well, actually, yes and no. I love leadership, I love leading Moody Theological Seminary, and I'm still I was still teaching, still teaching during that time as well. But I love the leadership side of ministry. I love I'm a visionary. You know, I have a an idea of where we want to go. But I'm also a pastor and a biblical preacher at heart. Chris. I'm an expositor of the Word of God, and I was sitting in chapel several weeks ago, and the Spirit of God was speaking to me in such a wonderful way, and I could sense him saying to me, Winfred, this is not the best stewardship of what I have given to you. What do you mean by that, Lord? Well, I want you to be back in a pulpit focused on pulpit work in a way that you haven't been able to do so during the last 24 years. And I said, okay, Lord, how am I going to do that? Well, through a convergence of factors, I became very obvious to me that it was time to retire. And you're right. So this burden of of leading the seminary is being lifted off of my shoulders. I can sense that because God wants me to go back into full time ministry of preaching his word.

So it's been a relatively recent that you've been thinking about this for a long time, but this the decision is relatively recent.

So it's been a relatively recent that you've been thinking about this for a long time, but this the decision is relatively recent.

It is the decision is relatively recent. Um, but yeah, God is in it. God is in it. Now, he had been kind of nudging me in this direction, but sometimes I think, you know, um, we just. Lord, does it really require all of that? You know, but it's but it's it's time, Chris. It's time. And I know in my heart of hearts that it's time for me to step away from full time service at Moody Bible Institute in order to concentrate on, um, leading the local church with a focus on pastoral care and robust pulpit ministry. Um.

It is the decision is relatively recent. Um, but yeah, God is in it. God is in it. Now, he had been kind of nudging me in this direction, but sometimes I think, you know, um, we just. Lord, does it really require all of that? You know, but it's but it's it's time, Chris. It's time. And I know in my heart of hearts that it's time for me to step away from full time service at Moody Bible Institute in order to concentrate on, um, leading the local church with a focus on pastoral care and robust pulpit ministry. Um.

But you don't have you don't know the pulpit that you're going to.

But you don't have you don't know the pulpit that you're going to.

I have no idea what. I have no idea.

I have no idea what. I have no idea.

God, that's the adventure.

God, that's the adventure.

Yeah, I guess so.

Yeah, I guess so.

There. That's the adventure of it. And maybe today there's a church that's listening. You know, somebody at church said our pastor is retiring or our pastor is moving along. We don't have who knows? Who knows what could happen?

There. That's the adventure of it. And maybe today there's a church that's listening. You know, somebody at church said our pastor is retiring or our pastor is moving along. We don't have who knows? Who knows what could happen?

Who knows what could happen in this conversation. But God knows that. But I you know, and again, I again, I don't, uh, I want to be like Moses when I go out. Chris. You know, Moses never retired, uh, from ministry as such. And even though I'm stepping away from Moody, I'm not retiring from ministry. I was just reading, uh, before I came on the air with you that Moses said today. I'm 120 years old. I can no longer go out or come in. Not because he was physically limited, but because God had told him, you're not going to enter into the land. See, we know from the ending of Deuteronomy that Moses was strong physically. His eyesight was not abated, but God had told him, you're not going to enter in the land. So it appears that on Moses's 120th birthday that he taught Israel a song, that he gave them a benediction and went up on Mount Pisgah, and God showed him the Promised land. And then Moses died. And that's how I want to go out. Not necessarily with the specifics of that, but I want to serve God and be involved in ministering to the day that I breathe my last and go on home to be with Jesus.

Who knows what could happen in this conversation. But God knows that. But I you know, and again, I again, I don't, uh, I want to be like Moses when I go out. Chris. You know, Moses never retired, uh, from ministry as such. And even though I'm stepping away from Moody, I'm not retiring from ministry. I was just reading, uh, before I came on the air with you that Moses said today. I'm 120 years old. I can no longer go out or come in. Not because he was physically limited, but because God had told him, you're not going to enter into the land. See, we know from the ending of Deuteronomy that Moses was strong physically. His eyesight was not abated, but God had told him, you're not going to enter in the land. So it appears that on Moses's 120th birthday that he taught Israel a song, that he gave them a benediction and went up on Mount Pisgah, and God showed him the Promised land. And then Moses died. And that's how I want to go out. Not necessarily with the specifics of that, but I want to serve God and be involved in ministering to the day that I breathe my last and go on home to be with Jesus.

Well, he went out singing, you know. Yeah. He did. Oh, yeah, he went out. You said something just a minute ago that I want to come back to. And that is, you're listening to this message in chapel, and you heard God say, you know, even we as evangelicals, maybe I'm projecting onto other evangelicals, but I hear people say, yeah, I heard God tell me. And it's immediately I think, well, wait a minute, I got to ask you more about that. So let's come back and talk about God speaking to Doctor Winfred Neeley. And then I have some other questions for him. And maybe you do as well. We're going to open the phone lines (877) 548-3675. Doctor Winfred Neeley is at the radio. Backyard fence. (877) 548-3675. Doing a little life together today with Doctor Winfred Neeley, who has announced his retirement from Moody Bible Institute the end of June. And so I thought it would be the perfect time to have Doctor Neeley on and talk about some of the things going on in his life. And this question that he just brought up a minute ago is what I think a lot of people have on their minds is like, I want to hear from God, and I know I need to read the Bible, and I listen to the messages, you know, the sermons. And I need to sift this through my own life. But I hear people say that they heard from God, or God told them this or did that, you know, saw a message in the sky or whatever. And I'm not I don't see those kinds of things. So I when he said I was in chapel and God was nudging, he had been nudging me and I heard him say, or and I think what I the way that I interpret that, Doctor Neely, is God didn't audibly speak to you. But as you as you're listening, you have the impression that he is communicating something important to you in the middle of what you're hearing. Am I close?

Well, he went out singing, you know. Yeah. He did. Oh, yeah, he went out. You said something just a minute ago that I want to come back to. And that is, you're listening to this message in chapel, and you heard God say, you know, even we as evangelicals, maybe I'm projecting onto other evangelicals, but I hear people say, yeah, I heard God tell me. And it's immediately I think, well, wait a minute, I got to ask you more about that. So let's come back and talk about God speaking to Doctor Winfred Neeley. And then I have some other questions for him. And maybe you do as well. We're going to open the phone lines (877) 548-3675. Doctor Winfred Neeley is at the radio. Backyard fence. (877) 548-3675. Doing a little life together today with Doctor Winfred Neeley, who has announced his retirement from Moody Bible Institute the end of June. And so I thought it would be the perfect time to have Doctor Neeley on and talk about some of the things going on in his life. And this question that he just brought up a minute ago is what I think a lot of people have on their minds is like, I want to hear from God, and I know I need to read the Bible, and I listen to the messages, you know, the sermons. And I need to sift this through my own life. But I hear people say that they heard from God, or God told them this or did that, you know, saw a message in the sky or whatever. And I'm not I don't see those kinds of things. So I when he said I was in chapel and God was nudging, he had been nudging me and I heard him say, or and I think what I the way that I interpret that, Doctor Neely, is God didn't audibly speak to you. But as you as you're listening, you have the impression that he is communicating something important to you in the middle of what you're hearing. Am I close?

No. You're that. That's right. Chris, I did not hear an audible voice. But the Spirit of God has a very unique way of communicating to us. Now, this is an inside conversation. If a person does not have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ, they don't. This makes no sense to them. But I'm speaking about the indwelling work of the Spirit of God as he fills us and supernaturally opens our eyes to understand Scripture and to see things in the word that we cannot see under our own cognitive power. In this process, God speaks to us. He puts things in our heart, you see. And I mean, if you look at the if we read Ezra, Nehemiah, we're talking to Ezra, and Nehemiah talks about I didn't talk to anybody about what God had put in my heart. And so, so that when we sense these movements from God, there really are not beginning with us. They're beginning with him, and he puts it on our heart, and he communicates to us through the power of the Spirit of God. This is why it's so important to walk with God. This is why it's so important to stay prayerful. Sometimes when we are in prayer, for example, God speaks to us well, how does he do that? Well, one of the things I've learned through all of these years is when my mind wanders while I'm praying, it seems that it actually wanders to a burden or something that I need to take care of. And I believe these are the ways that God communicates to us. So I'm sitting there in chapel in the Spirit of God is just showing me wonderful things from Scripture. And I'm sitting and I'm called to preach. And so when when God shows me things, I have to get it out, but Without a consistent outlet for poor pet work. Um, I was sensing from God that that was poor. Stewardship is what the Spirit of God was communicating to me. It's poor stewardship for you went for it to be sitting here, and I'm speaking to you in such a powerful way, and you are not able you're not in a context where you can share this on a regular, ongoing basis with a local congregation of my people. I mean, I was just reading this morning, I know this. I know this. I've taught it. But it struck me with new force this morning that through the work of Christ on the cross, God is propitiated. His justice is satisfied. Now we say that we preach that. But that struck me with such force this morning that that God's justice has been satisfied through the work of Christ on the cross. Hence any sinner Can come to know Christ as their personal Lord and Savior and be forgiven for all of their sins, because the thing that offended God has been removed through the work of Christ on the cross, and this is one of the great realities of the universe. It struck me with force this morning.

No. You're that. That's right. Chris, I did not hear an audible voice. But the Spirit of God has a very unique way of communicating to us. Now, this is an inside conversation. If a person does not have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ, they don't. This makes no sense to them. But I'm speaking about the indwelling work of the Spirit of God as he fills us and supernaturally opens our eyes to understand Scripture and to see things in the word that we cannot see under our own cognitive power. In this process, God speaks to us. He puts things in our heart, you see. And I mean, if you look at the if we read Ezra, Nehemiah, we're talking to Ezra, and Nehemiah talks about I didn't talk to anybody about what God had put in my heart. And so, so that when we sense these movements from God, there really are not beginning with us. They're beginning with him, and he puts it on our heart, and he communicates to us through the power of the Spirit of God. This is why it's so important to walk with God. This is why it's so important to stay prayerful. Sometimes when we are in prayer, for example, God speaks to us well, how does he do that? Well, one of the things I've learned through all of these years is when my mind wanders while I'm praying, it seems that it actually wanders to a burden or something that I need to take care of. And I believe these are the ways that God communicates to us. So I'm sitting there in chapel in the Spirit of God is just showing me wonderful things from Scripture. And I'm sitting and I'm called to preach. And so when when God shows me things, I have to get it out, but Without a consistent outlet for poor pet work. Um, I was sensing from God that that was poor. Stewardship is what the Spirit of God was communicating to me. It's poor stewardship for you went for it to be sitting here, and I'm speaking to you in such a powerful way, and you are not able you're not in a context where you can share this on a regular, ongoing basis with a local congregation of my people. I mean, I was just reading this morning, I know this. I know this. I've taught it. But it struck me with new force this morning that through the work of Christ on the cross, God is propitiated. His justice is satisfied. Now we say that we preach that. But that struck me with such force this morning that that God's justice has been satisfied through the work of Christ on the cross. Hence any sinner Can come to know Christ as their personal Lord and Savior and be forgiven for all of their sins, because the thing that offended God has been removed through the work of Christ on the cross, and this is one of the great realities of the universe. It struck me with force this morning.

And you know what? The the world will look at that. Someone who doesn't, as you said, has the Spirit of God. They'll look at that and they'll they'll look at Christians and say, you think this vile offender over here, somebody who's been accused or convicted of some heinous thing, you think that person can get into heaven simply by, you know, saying a prayer or walking an aisle or, you know, getting baptized or whatever they, they think a Christian does? You think that can happen right there? And it's and what they're doing is they're thinking, you got to you got to work your way in there. You got to be a good person to get in. And what you've just put your finger on is this message that needs to be proclaimed throughout the universe is it's not up to us. It's not getting into heaven, quote unquote, is not about us doing anything. It's what God did for us to satisfy the requirements that he had himself.

And you know what? The the world will look at that. Someone who doesn't, as you said, has the Spirit of God. They'll look at that and they'll they'll look at Christians and say, you think this vile offender over here, somebody who's been accused or convicted of some heinous thing, you think that person can get into heaven simply by, you know, saying a prayer or walking an aisle or, you know, getting baptized or whatever they, they think a Christian does? You think that can happen right there? And it's and what they're doing is they're thinking, you got to you got to work your way in there. You got to be a good person to get in. And what you've just put your finger on is this message that needs to be proclaimed throughout the universe is it's not up to us. It's not getting into heaven, quote unquote, is not about us doing anything. It's what God did for us to satisfy the requirements that he had himself.

That's right. He has not overlooked sin. He has dealt with sin through the work of Christ on the cross. If it was up to us, we never would resolve the issue because the offense is infinite. We don't even live long enough to bring any kind of satisfaction to the infinite, inflexible justice of God. And what happens is, you know, sometimes I think people misunderstand sin or and they certainly don't understand the work of Christ on the cross, but this is what needs to be proclaimed. Now, I'm not setting myself up as some kind of some kind of some kind of, uh, you know, needed herald. All I'm saying is that this is what God has been putting in my heart, and this is what people need to hear, that the work of Christ on the cross. Something has changed in the entire universe concerning God. God's justice has been satisfied, and now his love goes out to any person who will trust His Son as their personal Lord and Savior, and he will save them from all eternity and change their life right here and now, on the basis of justice. Satisfied? Sin has not been compromised. It hasn't. God has not compromised. He has not overlooked sin. He has dealt with sin in such a way that we all can come to know Christ as our personal Lord and Savior if we trust Jesus. And that's in my heart, I want I want to tell people about that.

That's right. He has not overlooked sin. He has dealt with sin through the work of Christ on the cross. If it was up to us, we never would resolve the issue because the offense is infinite. We don't even live long enough to bring any kind of satisfaction to the infinite, inflexible justice of God. And what happens is, you know, sometimes I think people misunderstand sin or and they certainly don't understand the work of Christ on the cross, but this is what needs to be proclaimed. Now, I'm not setting myself up as some kind of some kind of some kind of, uh, you know, needed herald. All I'm saying is that this is what God has been putting in my heart, and this is what people need to hear, that the work of Christ on the cross. Something has changed in the entire universe concerning God. God's justice has been satisfied, and now his love goes out to any person who will trust His Son as their personal Lord and Savior, and he will save them from all eternity and change their life right here and now, on the basis of justice. Satisfied? Sin has not been compromised. It hasn't. God has not compromised. He has not overlooked sin. He has dealt with sin in such a way that we all can come to know Christ as our personal Lord and Savior if we trust Jesus. And that's in my heart, I want I want to tell people about that.

That's the fire in the belly, you know, that's that's got to get out. Did you have this is the other thing that I've heard is confirmation from other people, other family members, spouses, people who are saying, yeah, this, this is the way Winfred walk in it.

That's the fire in the belly, you know, that's that's got to get out. Did you have this is the other thing that I've heard is confirmation from other people, other family members, spouses, people who are saying, yeah, this, this is the way Winfred walk in it.

Yeah, everyone has confirmed it. Everyone has confirmed it. Everyone has confirmed it. And God has been, uh, just been just just a convergence of factors. God has been speaking to me and encouraging me that this is the way that, uh, I should go, and, uh, no one is surprised.

Yeah, everyone has confirmed it. Everyone has confirmed it. Everyone has confirmed it. And God has been, uh, just been just just a convergence of factors. God has been speaking to me and encouraging me that this is the way that, uh, I should go, and, uh, no one is surprised.

Now, here's the other thing that's coming through here. As you're talking, it's Psalm 37 four. Delight yourself in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart. So there is part of this, that as you're sitting there in chapel and you're processing all of this, and you have this fire that, you know, it's like you want to share this and God is whispering to you, this is not the best use of your the desires of your heart have always been to do what he wants you to do. So it's it's almost as if the tug and the pull that is coming from your own heart is leading in the same direction, so that he is giving you this desire that you had, that he gave you in the first place. Ephesians two. Right.

Now, here's the other thing that's coming through here. As you're talking, it's Psalm 37 four. Delight yourself in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart. So there is part of this, that as you're sitting there in chapel and you're processing all of this, and you have this fire that, you know, it's like you want to share this and God is whispering to you, this is not the best use of your the desires of your heart have always been to do what he wants you to do. So it's it's almost as if the tug and the pull that is coming from your own heart is leading in the same direction, so that he is giving you this desire that you had, that he gave you in the first place. Ephesians two. Right.

Yeah, yeah. No, no. That's right. Now, and this is not to say that God did not have me here at Moody Bible Institute for the last 24 years. He did, by his grace and by his grace alone. The Lord has enabled me and my colleagues, Chris, to train an entire generation of new biblical preachers and ministers and servants who are serving the Lord all over the world. It's been it's been one of the the greatest privileges of my life. At my retirement ceremony, or the senior pastor of the village church of Gurney offered words that that Pastor David Guez was one of my students. He had five classes with me. Um. Then he went on to Gordon-conwell Theological Seminary and did some work in Edinburgh, and he's back in the States, and he served as my assistant pastor at um, at Judson Baptist Church. And to see him, he's offered a few words, and he said, Doctor Neely, I just want to say on behalf of all of the students that the Lord has used you. And it was it was an immense blessing to me. And and again, it's the goodness, it's the grace of God that allowed me the immense privilege to serve at the school that D.L. Moody founded. I love Moody Bible Institute, Chris. I do, and I believe with all of my heart what we stand for. You know, as a faculty member, I have to sign the doctrinal statement every year. That's how seriously we take the Word of God in our doctrinal commitments. By the grace of God, we're not going to move one jot or tittle away from the truth. And so signing the doctrinal statement every year is more than a perfunctory act. For me, it was an act of worship. It was an act of renewal, of my commitment. So I believe deeply in what we're doing here at MBI. But and I can and I will continue on to teach. But at the same time, I recognize that for this next season in my life, God has something else that he wants me to do.

Yeah, yeah. No, no. That's right. Now, and this is not to say that God did not have me here at Moody Bible Institute for the last 24 years. He did, by his grace and by his grace alone. The Lord has enabled me and my colleagues, Chris, to train an entire generation of new biblical preachers and ministers and servants who are serving the Lord all over the world. It's been it's been one of the the greatest privileges of my life. At my retirement ceremony, or the senior pastor of the village church of Gurney offered words that that Pastor David Guez was one of my students. He had five classes with me. Um. Then he went on to Gordon-conwell Theological Seminary and did some work in Edinburgh, and he's back in the States, and he served as my assistant pastor at um, at Judson Baptist Church. And to see him, he's offered a few words, and he said, Doctor Neely, I just want to say on behalf of all of the students that the Lord has used you. And it was it was an immense blessing to me. And and again, it's the goodness, it's the grace of God that allowed me the immense privilege to serve at the school that D.L. Moody founded. I love Moody Bible Institute, Chris. I do, and I believe with all of my heart what we stand for. You know, as a faculty member, I have to sign the doctrinal statement every year. That's how seriously we take the Word of God in our doctrinal commitments. By the grace of God, we're not going to move one jot or tittle away from the truth. And so signing the doctrinal statement every year is more than a perfunctory act. For me, it was an act of worship. It was an act of renewal, of my commitment. So I believe deeply in what we're doing here at MBI. But and I can and I will continue on to teach. But at the same time, I recognize that for this next season in my life, God has something else that he wants me to do.

Is it the what if there's a church in Florida? Would you say yes?

Is it the what if there's a church in Florida? Would you say yes?

Well, you know, you know, I might have to give that some consideration, sir.

Well, you know, you know, I might have to give that some consideration, sir.

We've got some listeners in Hawaii, too.

We've got some listeners in Hawaii, too.

You know, I might have to give that. Well, I.

You know, I might have to give that. Well, I.

I my preference would be, honestly, my preference would be to stay in Chicagoland. But I did tell my colleagues, if God decides to take Stephanie and me out of the state, would y'all please pray that it's somewhere warm and where they don't have any kind of hurricanes and all that stuff here? You know, there is a trade off.

I my preference would be, honestly, my preference would be to stay in Chicagoland. But I did tell my colleagues, if God decides to take Stephanie and me out of the state, would y'all please pray that it's somewhere warm and where they don't have any kind of hurricanes and all that stuff here? You know, there is a trade off.

Yeah. That's true.

Yeah. That's true.

Well, we've got, you know, we got some room here in in Arizona. It gets pretty warm, especially in the summertime. Um.

Well, we've got, you know, we got some room here in in Arizona. It gets pretty warm, especially in the summertime. Um.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, the I look back through a lot of the programs that we had done together through the years, and one of the ones that we not only aired, but then re-aired again was when you gave your testimony how you were a young man standing outside the packs, as I recall, and somebody spoke into your life and it changed your trajectory. That was a really powerful conversation.

You know, the I look back through a lot of the programs that we had done together through the years, and one of the ones that we not only aired, but then re-aired again was when you gave your testimony how you were a young man standing outside the packs, as I recall, and somebody spoke into your life and it changed your trajectory. That was a really powerful conversation.

Yeah, yeah, I still I still remember that this young soldier, I didn't know the guy. He just just accosted me of.

Yeah, yeah, I still I still remember that this young soldier, I didn't know the guy. He just just accosted me of.

Sorts.

Sorts.

And said, can I have a few words with you? And he pulls out. He pulls out this little yellow book, and it's the four spiritual laws. And that was the first time I heard the gospel, Chris. That was the first time that I understood that God was over here. And and I was over here on the other side, and that was a massive gulf between us. And that wasn't anything that I could do in my own power to cross it, to get over to God. Then he turned the page, and there was a cross that was a bridge between God and myself. And that young man looked at me and said, Winifred, if you receive Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, he will save you for all eternity. He will give you the gift of eternal life, and he will bring you into an eternal relationship with God. And I am eternally thankful for that young soldier who had the guts and the courage and the boldness to come to me. Cold turkey with the four spiritual laws had no idea what God was going to do with my life.

And said, can I have a few words with you? And he pulls out. He pulls out this little yellow book, and it's the four spiritual laws. And that was the first time I heard the gospel, Chris. That was the first time that I understood that God was over here. And and I was over here on the other side, and that was a massive gulf between us. And that wasn't anything that I could do in my own power to cross it, to get over to God. Then he turned the page, and there was a cross that was a bridge between God and myself. And that young man looked at me and said, Winifred, if you receive Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, he will save you for all eternity. He will give you the gift of eternal life, and he will bring you into an eternal relationship with God. And I am eternally thankful for that young soldier who had the guts and the courage and the boldness to come to me. Cold turkey with the four spiritual laws had no idea what God was going to do with my life.

Yeah, and the rest is.

Yeah, and the rest is.

The.

The.

Rest is history.

Rest is history.

God grabbed a hold of you and has taken you, you know, a lot of different places and through a lot of different valleys, too. Um, I the, the other conversation we had and I want to ask you of about her. Maybe we'll talk about it here but in the next segment for sure, because Sunday's Mother's Day. Yeah. Your mom growing up on the south side of Chicago. Your mother took you to see In the Heat of the night with Sidney Poitier. Yeah. And and that was. I was going to do a program about that and say, what was the film that, you know, or the book or whatever? It was the piece of art that really awakened you in some way. Uh, as a child. And you're a little kid then, right?

God grabbed a hold of you and has taken you, you know, a lot of different places and through a lot of different valleys, too. Um, I the, the other conversation we had and I want to ask you of about her. Maybe we'll talk about it here but in the next segment for sure, because Sunday's Mother's Day. Yeah. Your mom growing up on the south side of Chicago. Your mother took you to see In the Heat of the night with Sidney Poitier. Yeah. And and that was. I was going to do a program about that and say, what was the film that, you know, or the book or whatever? It was the piece of art that really awakened you in some way. Uh, as a child. And you're a little kid then, right?

Yeah. And my mother loved Sidney Poitier, and she took me to see all of them. Uh, for the love of Ivy. Guess who's coming to dinner? Which I'm going to actually relive that. Guess who's coming to dinner later in life? Because I didn't realize that my daughter who went to Wheaton College calls me, calls me. She said, dad, I would like for you to meet my boyfriend. Oh, yeah? You would. Okay. Is he saved? Yes. Does he love Christ as Christ loved? Would he love you as Christ loved the church? Yes. Are his parents saved? Do they know God? Yes. I said, let's bring him over for dinner. And she said, there's one other thing, daddy. I said, what is it? She said, he's white. And I thought to myself, guess who's coming to dinner?

Yeah. And my mother loved Sidney Poitier, and she took me to see all of them. Uh, for the love of Ivy. Guess who's coming to dinner? Which I'm going to actually relive that. Guess who's coming to dinner later in life? Because I didn't realize that my daughter who went to Wheaton College calls me, calls me. She said, dad, I would like for you to meet my boyfriend. Oh, yeah? You would. Okay. Is he saved? Yes. Does he love Christ as Christ loved? Would he love you as Christ loved the church? Yes. Are his parents saved? Do they know God? Yes. I said, let's bring him over for dinner. And she said, there's one other thing, daddy. I said, what is it? She said, he's white. And I thought to myself, guess who's coming to dinner?

And reverse. You saw.

And reverse. You saw.

That.

That.

Movie a long time ago and I came back.

Movie a long time ago and I came back.

Guess who's coming to dinner? Reverse.

Guess who's coming to dinner? Reverse.

So the white.

So the white.

Guy comes to see the chocolate preacher. He comes.

Guy comes to see the chocolate preacher. He comes.

To my house.

To my house.

There's his tall, intimidating chocolate fella, and. And you know what he was doing, man? He was touching my daughter's hair. He was just rubbing it like it was silk. And every time he put his hand on my daughter's hair, I was. I was in shock. I was thinking to myself, I wish this young man would keep his hands off.

There's his tall, intimidating chocolate fella, and. And you know what he was doing, man? He was touching my daughter's hair. He was just rubbing it like it was silk. And every time he put his hand on my daughter's hair, I was. I was in shock. I was thinking to myself, I wish this young man would keep his hands off.

Of my daughter's.

Of my daughter's.

You know, I tell young man, I said, man, listen, when you go to meet that girl's father, I don't care whether he's black, white, blue or green. Keep your hands off that girl in the.

You know, I tell young man, I said, man, listen, when you go to meet that girl's father, I don't care whether he's black, white, blue or green. Keep your hands off that girl in the.

Presence.

Presence.

Of her daddy.

Of her daddy.

I've got to find out more about this. Oh, we had just gone into a, you know, one little question about Sidney Poitier. And look where we are. Doctor Winifred Neely is with us today at the radio backyard fence. We'll talk about his mom and more straight ahead on Moody Radio. Did you know that more than a million women celebrate Mother's Day because of the work of Carenet? Sunday morning, more than a million children will celebrate their moms because of that abundant life ministry. And if you are a mom, Carenet wants you to have a free devotional Finding Abundance for moms seven Days of Encouragement Carenet is dedicated to helping moms and dads find abundant life in Christ. Obviously, they are for the unborn as well, and that's represented in more than a million women being moms because of that choice that they made. But this is one way to do that. Finding the abundant life. Click the Green Connect link at the website. Chris Fabry lives and you'll be able to receive Finding Abundance for moms the devotional. No matter how chaotic motherhood might feel to you, Kurnit believes you are made for more than just surviving. You are made to thrive. And this devotional, I think will help you do that. Click the Green connect link at Chris Fabry Live. Chris Fabry Livorno Doctor Winifred Neeley has written how to overcome worry. In the past few years, we've had him on about worry and anxiety and stress. And every time he comes on, we talk about that. Somebody gets on the air and we, we all kind of scratch our heads and say, how did that happen? How did we get to that place? Uh, so that's our featured resource@chris.org. He's just let us know that he's retiring from Moody Bible Institute, Moody Theological Seminary at the end of June. And then we this innocuous question I wanted to ask about his mom, mother's day is coming up, but, um, he he got into this area where his daughter brings home a, uh, Caucasian guy. And, uh, now, this was a long time ago. They eventually got married and have kids and have been married more than 20 years. But I want you to walk back to that time when, uh, guess who's coming for dinner? Walked into your house. And what did you feel on the inside?

I've got to find out more about this. Oh, we had just gone into a, you know, one little question about Sidney Poitier. And look where we are. Doctor Winifred Neely is with us today at the radio backyard fence. We'll talk about his mom and more straight ahead on Moody Radio. Did you know that more than a million women celebrate Mother's Day because of the work of Carenet? Sunday morning, more than a million children will celebrate their moms because of that abundant life ministry. And if you are a mom, Carenet wants you to have a free devotional Finding Abundance for moms seven Days of Encouragement Carenet is dedicated to helping moms and dads find abundant life in Christ. Obviously, they are for the unborn as well, and that's represented in more than a million women being moms because of that choice that they made. But this is one way to do that. Finding the abundant life. Click the Green Connect link at the website. Chris Fabry lives and you'll be able to receive Finding Abundance for moms the devotional. No matter how chaotic motherhood might feel to you, Kurnit believes you are made for more than just surviving. You are made to thrive. And this devotional, I think will help you do that. Click the Green connect link at Chris Fabry Live. Chris Fabry Livorno Doctor Winifred Neeley has written how to overcome worry. In the past few years, we've had him on about worry and anxiety and stress. And every time he comes on, we talk about that. Somebody gets on the air and we, we all kind of scratch our heads and say, how did that happen? How did we get to that place? Uh, so that's our featured resource@chris.org. He's just let us know that he's retiring from Moody Bible Institute, Moody Theological Seminary at the end of June. And then we this innocuous question I wanted to ask about his mom, mother's day is coming up, but, um, he he got into this area where his daughter brings home a, uh, Caucasian guy. And, uh, now, this was a long time ago. They eventually got married and have kids and have been married more than 20 years. But I want you to walk back to that time when, uh, guess who's coming for dinner? Walked into your house. And what did you feel on the inside?

Well, this is what I was thinking, Chris. I want to live out the full implications of the gospel. The full implications of the Word of God. And when my daughter told me she's bringing home a vanilla young man to my house, I like to use the term vanilla and chocolate because it's ice cream and it's all good. So she's going to bring home this Caucasian, this vanilla guy. I'm thinking to my this was my thought process. There isn't anything unbiblical about this. What matters is whether he knows the Lord, whether he's saved and whether they are a fit. Now what's interesting, Eden and Shane both are MKs. He grew up in France. She grew up in Senegal. Both of them speak French, speak French well, so they actually had more in common among themselves than they would say per se, with somebody of their own ethnic configuration or background, if I can say it that way. And so I didn't, I wasn't I was determined before God that I wasn't going to get in the way of what God was going to do. So I had already I'm thinking biblically and theologically about this. I'm not thinking culturally about this. I'm thinking biblically and theological about that. So that was not the issue for me. The issue was that he kept touching her hair when he came to the house. That's what that's what that's what got to me. I'm thinking, dude, dude, what are you doing? That's my baby, man. You know, and so that's what kind of kind of, you know, kind of kind of got to me. Uh, but, um, uh, he's my son in law, and this is more than theory for me. We have biracial. We have biracial children. Biracial children. Uh, so this is more than theory for me. It's something we've lived out, uh, for over two decades now, and it's been a blessing. Yeah.

Well, this is what I was thinking, Chris. I want to live out the full implications of the gospel. The full implications of the Word of God. And when my daughter told me she's bringing home a vanilla young man to my house, I like to use the term vanilla and chocolate because it's ice cream and it's all good. So she's going to bring home this Caucasian, this vanilla guy. I'm thinking to my this was my thought process. There isn't anything unbiblical about this. What matters is whether he knows the Lord, whether he's saved and whether they are a fit. Now what's interesting, Eden and Shane both are MKs. He grew up in France. She grew up in Senegal. Both of them speak French, speak French well, so they actually had more in common among themselves than they would say per se, with somebody of their own ethnic configuration or background, if I can say it that way. And so I didn't, I wasn't I was determined before God that I wasn't going to get in the way of what God was going to do. So I had already I'm thinking biblically and theologically about this. I'm not thinking culturally about this. I'm thinking biblically and theological about that. So that was not the issue for me. The issue was that he kept touching her hair when he came to the house. That's what that's what that's what got to me. I'm thinking, dude, dude, what are you doing? That's my baby, man. You know, and so that's what kind of kind of, you know, kind of kind of got to me. Uh, but, um, uh, he's my son in law, and this is more than theory for me. We have biracial. We have biracial children. Biracial children. Uh, so this is more than theory for me. It's something we've lived out, uh, for over two decades now, and it's been a blessing. Yeah.

You know, the whole thing about, uh. Oh, we just need to be colorblind. We need to, you know, not not see, I don't even see color. And I understand where people are coming from with it. It's like. No. When he walked. When he walked in your house, you could tell you can't look past the color of the hue of his skin. The issue is, am I going to let this block a relationship together?

You know, the whole thing about, uh. Oh, we just need to be colorblind. We need to, you know, not not see, I don't even see color. And I understand where people are coming from with it. It's like. No. When he walked. When he walked in your house, you could tell you can't look past the color of the hue of his skin. The issue is, am I going to let this block a relationship together?

Right? No, no. That's right. You see, if I say I, if I don't see color, that's really that's really not helpful because it diminishes the person. When you say that, you know, I see you I see that, you know, okay, I see the color of your skin, but I also don't want to reduce you to a skin color either. I realize that. You okay? You got white skin. But I also realize that you've grown up overseas. I realize that you speak French. I realize that you've. You're an MK, and that you have a complexity that is, that is deeper and much more nuanced than the mere color of his skin. Same thing with Eden, right? And so one of the things that I try not to do is reduce people to a color, because I think that in and of itself is is is is it minimizes the image of God in people when we do that. This is not to say that we don't recognize different ethnic differences, different ethnic configurations. I think these things need to be recognized and celebrated and cherished together.

Right? No, no. That's right. You see, if I say I, if I don't see color, that's really that's really not helpful because it diminishes the person. When you say that, you know, I see you I see that, you know, okay, I see the color of your skin, but I also don't want to reduce you to a skin color either. I realize that. You okay? You got white skin. But I also realize that you've grown up overseas. I realize that you speak French. I realize that you've. You're an MK, and that you have a complexity that is, that is deeper and much more nuanced than the mere color of his skin. Same thing with Eden, right? And so one of the things that I try not to do is reduce people to a color, because I think that in and of itself is is is is it minimizes the image of God in people when we do that. This is not to say that we don't recognize different ethnic differences, different ethnic configurations. I think these things need to be recognized and celebrated and cherished together.

That was my word to celebrate, to celebrate these differences. We just had Cinco de Mayo this past Monday, and it's like, that's not a big holiday for me. But boy, here in Arizona, there's an awful lot of people who are setting off fireworks. And it's like, what's going on here? You know, you find out and then you find the food and, and the the joy of that and the celebration of that. Okay. So I want to get back to your mother, though the whole reason I asked you about that was not the movie was about your mom. Right. Tell me about your mom and. And the celebration of her as your mother. Because she was. It seems to me she was uniquely Winifred's mother. She did some things in your life that really helped channel you. Is that true?

That was my word to celebrate, to celebrate these differences. We just had Cinco de Mayo this past Monday, and it's like, that's not a big holiday for me. But boy, here in Arizona, there's an awful lot of people who are setting off fireworks. And it's like, what's going on here? You know, you find out and then you find the food and, and the the joy of that and the celebration of that. Okay. So I want to get back to your mother, though the whole reason I asked you about that was not the movie was about your mom. Right. Tell me about your mom and. And the celebration of her as your mother. Because she was. It seems to me she was uniquely Winifred's mother. She did some things in your life that really helped channel you. Is that true?

Yeah. That's true. Annie. Lou. Product of rural Mississippi. And one of the things that she did that is going to mark me for the rest of my life. I don't even know if she knew the impact that it would have. She just called me one day when I was a little boy and she said, Winifred, um, I'm going to teach you how to pray. I think that may have been about 5 or 6. We were living in the Ida B Wells homes. Ida B Wells projects and the extensions. Those buildings are torn down now. And so my mother said, come, and I need you to get on your knees next to me. I loved my mother. I mean, I did. She was she was such a wonderful person. And she got on her knees and she said, now I need you to repeat after me. And this is what she said. Now I lay me down to sleep. Then I said, now I lay me down to sleep I pray the Lord my soul to keep. I pray the Lord my soul to keep. If I should die before I wake. If I should die before I wake I pray the Lord my soul to take. I pray the Lord my soul to take. And something happened happen in that moment, Chris. And this is hindsight, but God was in that moment. And as I look back at it, it's almost as if he was saying to me, hello, Winifred. I wasn't saved at the time. I didn't know Christ as my personal Lord and Savior, but it was something about that moment that marked me. In that little prayer, I learned that I had a soul. I pray the Lord my soul to keep. I learned that life is not an entitlement. If I should die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take. Now that is something of a jarring prayer to teach a five year old. You know I may not make it through the night, you know. You understand what I'm saying? But that's going to mark me deeply. And I remember when I was studying at Wheaton College many, many years ago, I was in Wheaton graduate school, and I was studying with Robert Weber and historical theology. And he asked us to had had an assignment for us. When was the first time you had a sense of God? And as I reflected on my life, that was the first time I had a sense of God. And I don't know if my mom, I don't think mother knew the impact I was going to have on me. Then she taught me another prayer. She taught me the the model prayer. Our father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, so forth and so on. That's going to have a big impact on me. Moreover, she gave each one of the children verses before we would sit down to to eat. Before we would eat our food, we would recite a verse. She gave each child a verse. My verse was, blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. My baby brother Charles, he had a very short verse. Jesus wept, and so, so she gave. She gave him the short. He's the baby of the family. She gave him. She loved him more. Jesus wept. Now you know my brother Michael. You know Michael, the pastor down there in Tampa, Florida. I said, Michael, what was your verse? He looked at me and said, went. I don't even remember what my verse was. I said, man, come on. You grew up all those years. You know, he has no recollection of what the verse was, but this is what was going on in my home. In the Spirit of God is taking that light, that little light that mother gave us. And he's going to take it a long way and lay the foundation for my conversion to Christ when I was 19 years old.

Yeah. That's true. Annie. Lou. Product of rural Mississippi. And one of the things that she did that is going to mark me for the rest of my life. I don't even know if she knew the impact that it would have. She just called me one day when I was a little boy and she said, Winifred, um, I'm going to teach you how to pray. I think that may have been about 5 or 6. We were living in the Ida B Wells homes. Ida B Wells projects and the extensions. Those buildings are torn down now. And so my mother said, come, and I need you to get on your knees next to me. I loved my mother. I mean, I did. She was she was such a wonderful person. And she got on her knees and she said, now I need you to repeat after me. And this is what she said. Now I lay me down to sleep. Then I said, now I lay me down to sleep I pray the Lord my soul to keep. I pray the Lord my soul to keep. If I should die before I wake. If I should die before I wake I pray the Lord my soul to take. I pray the Lord my soul to take. And something happened happen in that moment, Chris. And this is hindsight, but God was in that moment. And as I look back at it, it's almost as if he was saying to me, hello, Winifred. I wasn't saved at the time. I didn't know Christ as my personal Lord and Savior, but it was something about that moment that marked me. In that little prayer, I learned that I had a soul. I pray the Lord my soul to keep. I learned that life is not an entitlement. If I should die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take. Now that is something of a jarring prayer to teach a five year old. You know I may not make it through the night, you know. You understand what I'm saying? But that's going to mark me deeply. And I remember when I was studying at Wheaton College many, many years ago, I was in Wheaton graduate school, and I was studying with Robert Weber and historical theology. And he asked us to had had an assignment for us. When was the first time you had a sense of God? And as I reflected on my life, that was the first time I had a sense of God. And I don't know if my mom, I don't think mother knew the impact I was going to have on me. Then she taught me another prayer. She taught me the the model prayer. Our father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, so forth and so on. That's going to have a big impact on me. Moreover, she gave each one of the children verses before we would sit down to to eat. Before we would eat our food, we would recite a verse. She gave each child a verse. My verse was, blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. My baby brother Charles, he had a very short verse. Jesus wept, and so, so she gave. She gave him the short. He's the baby of the family. She gave him. She loved him more. Jesus wept. Now you know my brother Michael. You know Michael, the pastor down there in Tampa, Florida. I said, Michael, what was your verse? He looked at me and said, went. I don't even remember what my verse was. I said, man, come on. You grew up all those years. You know, he has no recollection of what the verse was, but this is what was going on in my home. In the Spirit of God is taking that light, that little light that mother gave us. And he's going to take it a long way and lay the foundation for my conversion to Christ when I was 19 years old.

She's no longer living, right?

She's no longer living, right?

No, she's with the Lord. I was with her when she died. I mean, I talk about this in the book How to Overcome Worry. I narrate my mother's deathbed experience. I was actually there, preached on this, actually in chapel at Moody Bible Institute in connection with Psalm 23 a couple of weeks ago about my mother's death. She had congestive heart failure, and we were with her when they when they turned the defibrillator off because it was going off every few seconds. Now her heart was gone and she asked us to turn it off. And we did. And she that lethal arrhythmia came and my daughter started singing and praying. I read Psalm 23, and by the time I read Psalm 23, um, mother turned her head to the left and she was gone. She had gone on to glory. And I remember Chris standing next to her hospital bed and bowing my head and saying, Lord, if I did not believe with all of my heart that you are risen literally and bodily from among the dead, I would be. I would be devastated beyond recovery. But I thank you that you're alive. I thank you that my mother is with you, and that this deathbed experience is not the end. It's just a transition. And I thank you that I'm going to see her again because of your work on the cross. And so the Lord Jesus has, has given me the grace to deal with moments like the loss of a mother. And I think, I don't know if that's one of the most devastating things that a person can go through to lose your mother, especially when you've been close to her. But that. But the gospel will enable you even to get through those kind of moments with hope.

No, she's with the Lord. I was with her when she died. I mean, I talk about this in the book How to Overcome Worry. I narrate my mother's deathbed experience. I was actually there, preached on this, actually in chapel at Moody Bible Institute in connection with Psalm 23 a couple of weeks ago about my mother's death. She had congestive heart failure, and we were with her when they when they turned the defibrillator off because it was going off every few seconds. Now her heart was gone and she asked us to turn it off. And we did. And she that lethal arrhythmia came and my daughter started singing and praying. I read Psalm 23, and by the time I read Psalm 23, um, mother turned her head to the left and she was gone. She had gone on to glory. And I remember Chris standing next to her hospital bed and bowing my head and saying, Lord, if I did not believe with all of my heart that you are risen literally and bodily from among the dead, I would be. I would be devastated beyond recovery. But I thank you that you're alive. I thank you that my mother is with you, and that this deathbed experience is not the end. It's just a transition. And I thank you that I'm going to see her again because of your work on the cross. And so the Lord Jesus has, has given me the grace to deal with moments like the loss of a mother. And I think, I don't know if that's one of the most devastating things that a person can go through to lose your mother, especially when you've been close to her. But that. But the gospel will enable you even to get through those kind of moments with hope.

I have one more question about your mom. Let me take a final break. Doctor Winifred Neeley is with us. If you want to read that story in that book, it's our featured resource. How to overcome Worry. Experiencing the peace of God in every situation. My guess is there's somebody who needed to hear that story right there today. A little bit of gospel truth for your heart and encouragement today. This is Chris Fabry live on Moody Radio online. Chris Fabry Deliver more straight ahead. Now you know why I say something good always happens when Doctor Neeley comes alongside us here at the back fence. Doctor Winfred Neeley. Find out more about him. The transition he is making from vice president, Dean and Moody Theological Seminary to retired. And really feels like God is leading him back into the pastorate, into a pulpit. Um, if you go to Chris Fabry live org, you can also see click through today's information. You'll see how to overcome worry, experiencing the peace of God in every situation. I'm going to do a program on Friday when freed, and it's about Mother's Day coming up on Sunday. And I was I had already mapped this out. And then Nathan Clarkson came on on Monday with his mother, and he told me about, you know, he's an artist. He's an actor. Writer. Script writer does all kinds of things. And he said, I still hear my mother's voice. When I'm writing, when I'm doing things. And I thought, I want to do a program on. Your mother's voice. What do you hear? Whether, you know, she could be living or have passed away. Years ago. And you still hear your mother's voice saying something, or you could be a laugh or whatever. So when I say that to you, your mother's voice, she's been gone a while. What? What comes to mind?

I have one more question about your mom. Let me take a final break. Doctor Winifred Neeley is with us. If you want to read that story in that book, it's our featured resource. How to overcome Worry. Experiencing the peace of God in every situation. My guess is there's somebody who needed to hear that story right there today. A little bit of gospel truth for your heart and encouragement today. This is Chris Fabry live on Moody Radio online. Chris Fabry Deliver more straight ahead. Now you know why I say something good always happens when Doctor Neeley comes alongside us here at the back fence. Doctor Winfred Neeley. Find out more about him. The transition he is making from vice president, Dean and Moody Theological Seminary to retired. And really feels like God is leading him back into the pastorate, into a pulpit. Um, if you go to Chris Fabry live org, you can also see click through today's information. You'll see how to overcome worry, experiencing the peace of God in every situation. I'm going to do a program on Friday when freed, and it's about Mother's Day coming up on Sunday. And I was I had already mapped this out. And then Nathan Clarkson came on on Monday with his mother, and he told me about, you know, he's an artist. He's an actor. Writer. Script writer does all kinds of things. And he said, I still hear my mother's voice. When I'm writing, when I'm doing things. And I thought, I want to do a program on. Your mother's voice. What do you hear? Whether, you know, she could be living or have passed away. Years ago. And you still hear your mother's voice saying something, or you could be a laugh or whatever. So when I say that to you, your mother's voice, she's been gone a while. What? What comes to mind?

My mother said to me on several occasions at strategic moments in my life. Winifred. Always take the high road. Always take the high road. My mother, she did not believe in being petty and small minded about life. She she she believed in being. She. She was Magnanimous and gracious and kind, and she would yield in order to, to bless others. So that has been such a deep part of my life. Always take the high road. I try, by the grace of God, to not descend into the slimy pit of pettiness. I want, I'm trying, but but, but and by by the help and grace of God to be magnanimous. That's one, that's one. So that has really, really shaped me. Another one was very practical. If I can say it's another one that I would. I still remember saying, Winfred, always pay your rent or always pay your mortgage. Even if you can't pay your light bill or your gas bill, you always pay your rent or your mortgage. At least you won't be homeless. You're going to have somewhere to go at night. So I never forgot that. I never forgot that. So I was paying my rent and my mortgage and all of that stuff, you know, because it's a one on one. It's a fiscally responsible thing to do before God. But it was also it was also my mother. She just she just drilled that in me and, um, you know, just, um, you know, she was a one liner, kind of a kind of a person, you know, um, and that and that those, those, those comments mark me especially take the high road.

My mother said to me on several occasions at strategic moments in my life. Winifred. Always take the high road. Always take the high road. My mother, she did not believe in being petty and small minded about life. She she she believed in being. She. She was Magnanimous and gracious and kind, and she would yield in order to, to bless others. So that has been such a deep part of my life. Always take the high road. I try, by the grace of God, to not descend into the slimy pit of pettiness. I want, I'm trying, but but, but and by by the help and grace of God to be magnanimous. That's one, that's one. So that has really, really shaped me. Another one was very practical. If I can say it's another one that I would. I still remember saying, Winfred, always pay your rent or always pay your mortgage. Even if you can't pay your light bill or your gas bill, you always pay your rent or your mortgage. At least you won't be homeless. You're going to have somewhere to go at night. So I never forgot that. I never forgot that. So I was paying my rent and my mortgage and all of that stuff, you know, because it's a one on one. It's a fiscally responsible thing to do before God. But it was also it was also my mother. She just she just drilled that in me and, um, you know, just, um, you know, she was a one liner, kind of a kind of a person, you know, um, and that and that those, those, those comments mark me especially take the high road.

You mentioned the verse that she gave you the other day of when, when you were young. But what about a life verse? Has there been a verse that has followed you all throughout your life?

You mentioned the verse that she gave you the other day of when, when you were young. But what about a life verse? Has there been a verse that has followed you all throughout your life?

Well, I mean, that's Psalm 23 is my go to passage, Psalm 23, the Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want. You know, he makes me lie down in green pastures. You know. He leads me beside still waters. He restores my soul. He guides me in the paths of righteousness for the sake of his name. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me. Your rod and your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You have anointed my head with oil. My cup overflows. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life. And I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever. And I was just mentioning in chaplain, I just saw this recently. Here it says, surely goodness and mercy, those are actually goodness and mercy represent God himself. These are, these are these are. God is goodness. God is faithful love. And so when it says, goodness and mercy will follow me all the days of my life, what that means is God and His mercy, and God and his faithfulness is going to do more than follow you. He's going to he's going to be vigorous in his pursuit of you all the days of your life. And I was able to share this with the students in chapel just just a few weeks ago. And so Psalm 23 is my go to text, Chris. It's my it's it's when I, when I wake up at 3:00 in the morning with a sense of cosmic loneliness. Psalm 23 is my go to text when I, when I, when I, when I fear a life caving in on me. For for whatever reason. Psalm 23 is my go to text. I had the privilege, Chris, to pray with the mayor of of Chicago, and I was down there with Wayne, Coach Gordon, Pastor Charlie Davis, and another pastor. And I looked at the mayor and said, Mr. Mayor, I would like to give you my go to verse. I offer this verse to you as a go to passage and I, you know, quote it to him. Psalm 23. So. And if if any of your listeners are listening and they they, they want to go through passage, I recommend Psalm 23. Read it in all situations in life. And this is the kind of text that will get you through the night. Yes, it's the kind of text that will enable you to take another step. Uh, the type of text that will enable you to walk with God through the tears and lows and valleys of life, because the Lord Jesus is your shepherd, and he will take care of you until the very end and beyond. Till you step foot on the shores of glory.