The king of birth order and best-selling author and speaker Dr. Kevin Leman is back! He wants to help unleash your world-changing potential. He'll talk about how to become a great leader. If you can learn what makes people do what they do and uniquely motivate them, you're on your way! Has there been a leader in your life who made a difference? Talk with Kevin Leman on Chris Fabry Live.
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Oh, I can't wait. What a great Friday program we have for you today. Because I have the King of Fridays, the originator of the birth order concept. The one, the only doctor, Kevin Lehman, is in the house today. And we're going to talk about becoming a great leader. Wherever you are, whatever your influence, you are a leader of some sort. How do you become better? How do you become great? Is there a leader that you've worked under, served under that you would say is pivotal to your life? I want you to think about that, and let's get started with the conversation here at the Radio Backyard fence. We would not come to you today without our friends behind the scenes. I'm talking about Ryan McConaughey doing all things technical. Trish is our producer, is in the chair today. Anthony will be answering your calls. And since it's Friday. That's right. It's time for the fabulous favorite Friday. Say, what's it do? Well, one. We oxygenate your Oxygenate your blood. Two. We get your endorphins going. Three. We raise your serotonin level. Four. We promote lymphatic drainage. And five. We stimulate your parasympathetic system. That's why we call it the five love languages. We also stimulate your vagus nerve. We help you release acetylcholine. And don't you dare forget what it does to cortisol dissipation. Take in four seconds of air through your nose right now. Hold it four seconds, and then as you release that air through your mouth, push on the left side of your rib cage to get rid of all that bad carbon dioxide. Give a sigh today. If you are a first born, a middle child, or the baby. Because we learned about birth order from the man in the studio today, we also learned from him that sex begins in the kitchen and that you can make your children mind without losing yours. We learned about the ankle biters, Buford, and stepping over the child and resisting the temptation to step on the child, we learned what our childhood memories say about us, that smart women know when to say no, and what to do when your best isn't good enough. And that just about anything can be done by Friday. Fabulous Friday is brought to you by this station, Moody Radio and the society for the Preservation of Cubbie Lemon. All rights reserved. What do you think of that? Well.
That knocked it out of the park. I just saw my life flash before my eyes. That was wonderful.
If you didn't know, doctor Kevin Leman is internationally known psychologist, radio and television personality, educator, speaker, humorist. He's known for his wit and common sense psychology. 70 books, New York Times bestseller, the Birth order book, Have a New Kid By Friday, The Way of the Shepherd. We're going to mention that talk about that today. And his latest is Be a Great Leader by Friday. Five Winning Plays to spark your world Changing Potential. First some. Let's get some housekeeping out of the way. You are here in my studio with me today. Right? And one of my first questions was going to going to be. I know you're from New York, are you? Be rooting for Buffalo. And I see the hat that you're wearing has a buffalo on it.
Yeah, I am a buffalo boy. I left Buffalo. Uh, let's see when I was 19, when I was actually thrown out of college. Thanks for asking. In Chicago, at North Park, I came down here as a 19 year old. And you know my story. I was a janitor. And, uh, we all have people in our life who were the trigger points that God used, uh, to turn our life in a different direction. And I literally I've told it so many times, but I literally met my wife in the men's room of Tucson Medical Center, one of our local hospitals. Yes. She was helping a little old guy go potty in a walker. She was a nurse's aide. I was a janitor. Uh, and first thing I ever said to my wife was, would you like to go to the World's Fair with me? With the World's Fair was in New York City at the time. This is Tucson, and I make it making $195 a month. And she was always the smarter one, Chris. And she said, well, I don't know. I said, how about lunch then? And so we went to McDonald's. True story. Split a 20 cent cheeseburger, ten cent coke, and I felt like a ton of bricks. But she was the one that God used to really turn my entire life in a different direction almost instantly.
So in a way, she has been Mrs. Uppington, by the way. And how's Mrs. Uppington?
Oh, she's she helps me drive. She helps me dress. She helps me do. The other day I was leaving the house. She said, you're not going out like that, are you? I said, yeah, what's the problem? She says, you got a big spot on your shirt. I said, only one. Don't worry about it. I'll be home in an hour and a half.
All right, so you got the buffalo on your hat. So we know who you're rooting for on on the over the weekend. Mrs. Uppington, how many years have you been married? Do you remember?
57 in a row? 57? Yeah.
Blissful years. Wonderful years.
Seriously. God has blessed us so in so many ways. I've lived a life that there's times I just shake my head and say, you know God. My wife always says, Sandy always says, we make plans and God laughs. I never wanted to write a book. I never wanted to be a speaker. I never wanted to do a TV show. And it seems like that's all I do.
Yeah. So you didn't have this. But but even that, what you just described is important for a leader to understand who you are and how God made you. You can't be a great leader if you don't know that, right?
Yes. And that's lesson number one in be a great Leader by Friday is you have to know yourself. I mean, if you're a tricycle person, there's nothing wrong with riding the tricycle line of life. But if you're a tricycle person and you want to go on that outside lane with those big dogs, I can tell you what's going to happen to you. You're going to get run over. So knowing who you are and any leader. Has to really know who they serve and serve those they know. So yeah, we're talking about servant leadership. And I met a lot of leaders. I've met so many people. I sit at home at night and if we're watching TV, there's not a night goes by that I can't say, oh, I was on a show with that actor or that singer or that whatever. I mean, I've rubbed shoulders with a lot of different people, and it's interesting because the qualities of the people that I remember best are those who were down to earth, regular people didn't think of themselves as any different or better, certainly better than anybody else. And if you look at your life and all you listeners think of people that you're attracted to, what is the quality that they have? I always tell when I'm talking about raising kids, I'll say they always say, don't try this at home, but try this at home. If you have access to a little ankle biter who's 3 or 4 years old, just extend your hands toward the ankle biter and say, come here, which is a command. Now, I'm telling you, seven out of eight ankle biters will go south. If you want them to approach you, just walk backwards slowly with your arms extended toward them. And guess what? They'll come toward you. So leadership is not a technique. It's a lifestyle. It's a way of looking at how you live.
I saw a story about the actor. You mentioned, actor James Garner the other day, and it was another actor talking about he was on Rockford Files, and he said, I was just there for like a five minute thing. It was a walk on thing. I wasn't important. I had my own dressing room, which was a trailer. And he said, I was in the trailer and I heard a knock on the door and I opened it. It was James Garner who was, you know, Rockford, Jim Rockford. And he said, hey, I just wanted to come by and tell you, thanks for being on the show. I hope you have a lot of fun today. Just wanted to welcome you. Oh, wow. So so then he followed up with that and he said, I was over at the studio with my parents and it was the first time I'd ever had them there. And they were shooting, you know, across the street. And he said, I was going to I went over there to see if Jim would say, you know, just take a picture or just say hi to my parents. And he said he knocked on the trailer and the person there met him and said, well, I don't think he has time for that, but let me ask. And he looked in and Garner was meeting with an executive from the, you know, from the studio and heard, you know, my father and the executive says, we don't have time for that. And Jim Garner said, we need to make time for that. Yeah. And the actor said he came out and spent an hour with his parents and to me, that's a good leader.
Oh yeah, because leadership is personal, and that's one of the things I try to teach people about leadership. It's not some oh, by the way, if you have to tell people you're the leader, I got news for you, Jack. You're not the leader. But it's that kind of thing that rekindled a memory. Uh, we have a great listening audience in Cleveland. They might appreciate this. There was a show called Morning Exchange that I have done umpteen times in my life. And when you come in to the studio, it's sort of funny because they have dressing rooms. Okay. And the first one was Bernadette Peters, who I always loved on camera. And then there was, uh, a local actor, and then there was Doctor Kevin Leman. Lehman and I was one notch above the coupon clipper. But I'll never forget the PA, the production assistant, when he saw my eyes light up when I saw Bernadette Peters. I said, oh, Bernadette Peters is on the show today. And he says to me, would you like to meet her? I said, would I ever? I'm not kidding you. He takes me into her dressing room. Okay. Wow. And she comes over, greets me like I'm her long lost friend. Gives me a hug. You know, I'm saying. I can't believe I'm getting a hug from Bernadette Peters. I went outside, I said, can I use your phone? And back in those days, there weren't even cell phones. If I remember right, I called my wife in the studio. I said, guess who's on the show with me in Cleveland? She said, Not Bernadette. I said, Bernadette. And we both had a chuckle and laugh. But any time someone is personal and shows an interest in you, I always tell people, you know, if you see a turtle on a fence post, he didn't get there by himself. All of us think back for a second. And who had your back as a kid, Chris? Who had your back? You know, and all of us can point to those key people who believed in us. One of the ladies who helped turn my life around was a math teacher who, in April of my senior year, nailed me one day in the in the in the hallway and said, Kevin, have you ever thought you could use those skills you have for something positive in life? Well, this woman, in retrospect, I didn't know it at the time, was a believer in Jesus Christ, but she saw through my adolescent stupid antics as the youngest child in the family. She saw something that other teachers didn't see. But honestly, that's the first time a teacher ever said to me I had skills.
I love it. I love it, and we're going to talk about that today. And I want you to think about. So that's Kevin's teacher. I want you to think about the person in your own life who has been a leader, who has been pivotal in your own life. Give us a call at (877) 548-3675. Or maybe you have a question about your own leadership struggle. You've been tasked with doing something, and you don't know if you are up to the task. Be a Great Leader by Friday by Kevin Lemons, our featured resource, and Chris Fabry live. Org. Doctor Kevin Lemon is back today at the radio backyard fence. Be a great leader by Friday as our featured resource. You can find out more at Chris Fabry. We'll open up the phone lines. The subtitle is five Winning Plays to spark your world Changing Potential. So this is for just about anybody our leaders born.
Well, I think first born children have an edge, as do onlys. But to answer your question, although they have an edge, you can learn to be a leader. I think a lot of people like myself, I never saw myself as a leader. I was the class clown. However, in high school and I look back at my life and I was rather enterprising as a young kid. I just never saw that because all of us have a story. And your story comes from your family. And this goes back to birth order concepts. But I had a sister, God bless her. I mean, she was a children's pastor. I mean, she was a wonderful sister and still is. And but she was a perfectionist. Everything she did was perfect. You came to her home in Jamestown, New York, and the first thing you saw was the clear vinyl runner. And may God help you if you didn't stay on the clear vinyl runner. You wouldn't want to, you know, stepping on the rug, would you? And then there was my brother, who was a straight-A student as well. And then there was me. Well, I labeled myself. Years later, I was the best at being the worst. I couldn't compete with those two guys. So I went down a completely different avenue in life. And I think sometimes, especially us younger children, I mean, babies of the family. What do these people have in common? Billy Crystal, Eddie Murphy, Drew Carey, Jim Carrey, Martin Short, Chevy Chase, Whoopi Goldberg, Ellen I mean, it goes on and on and on. The father of comedy, Charlie Chaplin. They're all babies of the family. And Steve Carell, I mean, I can go on and on and on.
They're looking for attention. They're looking for somebody to see them. Right.
And every kid is looking for significance as they're growing up in that family. And of course, that firstborn is the lab rat of the family. Parents practiced on them. They got in trouble for what their kid sister or brother did. I don't care what you did. You're the oldest. I expect more of you. to you, young woman or young man. But you have to remember the firstborns. Their models are adults wear us later borns are models. Have these buffers, older siblings and stuff. So I just think it's amazing how God could create us so differently. Even identical twins who have the same DNA, they have different fingerprints. I still howl and laugh when I think about that.
So does a does a leader take that into does a leader know about birth order, not only his or her own, but also those that they work with?
Well, I couldn't resist talking about that in the beginning of this book because you have to match their personality. You have to get behind their eyes and see how they see life. I mean, classically in business, someone will take a top salesperson and they'll promote them to general sales manager. And Chris, it's a completely different skill set in many times it's a mistake. So it's not just getting people on the bus, it's getting him on the right seat on that bus. And I met a lot of leaders. Herb Kelleher was a huge influence in my life. I got a chance to interview him. I got to know him, shared time with him, and he was the CEO and chairman of the board at Southwest Airlines. If you ever flew on southwest, I'm here to tell you you had more fun on southwest than any other airline you've flown. I got news for you. The reason for that is he was the baby of the family, the baby of four boys. He insisted on having fun. He was on the airplane back in the days when you could. Days when you could hand out peanuts. He was out there handing out peanuts. But here's the quote I like best about him. He said, hey, Kevin, at southwest we are in the service business. It's incidental. We also fly airplanes.
I like that. I like that because there is. You say that there are the three R's and it's the relationship, relationship and In a relationship, right? Right.
Yeah. And a lot of people, especially the authoritarians, I mean, most of us grew up in authoritarian environments as kids. I sure did. And my father, you know, he was Irish. He had a booming voice and he was a man of few words. And he'd say, hey, that was to get your attention. Hey. And then he'd say, 8:00 and he'd point. He was like a German Shorthair. He'd point, and it meant you had to move. And if you didn't move toward the bedroom, he would say, hey, do you want to go under your own power, or do you want to be ricocheted to bed, but you're going to bed. So the authoritarians are still around, and they're the ones that see themselves as bosses. And you just do what I tell you to do. But they fail today because we live in a very egalitarian society. Kids no longer see themselves as unequal to us as adults and parents. And it goes on and on and on. So the permissive leader wants to be liked by everybody. They're doomed for failure, and they will spurn rebellion in the troops. The authoritarian will do the same. So what's the answer? Lehman? The answer is be an authoritative leader. And here's the question. For all you people who love the Lord Jesus Christ, here's the question today is God in authoritarian? And the answer is no, he's not. He doesn't rub our nose in it. He doesn't twist our earlobe. In fact, he gives his choice. You can accept me or you can reject me. And so our position as leaders has to be in a position where our yes is yes. Our no is no. We're firm with decision makers. We know how to discipline, but we know how to love. We know how to appreciate people. We know how to communicate, and we listen to our people.
But that almost seems counterintuitive to the experience that we've had, because I don't I don't agree or disagree with anything you just said, but a lot of people who are Our leaders are, though, you know, they get into it because they really like the power, the control. And if you know my way or the highway. Exactly. And that didn't work.
And look at marriage like a moth to a flame. The pleaser. And I've written books on the subject. The pleasers. Can't we all just get along? Can't the ocean's life be smooth? And it is a a gender thing where many, many more women are pleasers than controllers. Are the women who control? Yes there are, but like a moth to a flame, they find each other. And it's a good it's a good combination for a while, until the pleaser says, wait a minute, what's in this for me? And that's when things blow up. But the yes is yes. And your no is no is really important. If you got a minute, do we? Yeah. Uh, John Wooden was the head basketball coach at UCLA. He won ten championships. Uh, and he was a wonderful person. And he loved the Lord, by the way. And there's a story about him and Bill Walton, his big center, big red headed kid. And Bill brought his bicycle. And by the way, his seat his seat was so high above. I don't know how he stood on it, that bike, but Bill was, like, almost seven feet tall, if I remember correctly. But he brought his bike into Pauley Pavilion, their basketball court, and he put it in the locker room so it wouldn't be stolen. And he's walking by Coach Wooden, and Coach Wooden said to him, Bill, it's time for a haircut. And Bill didn't say anything. He went in and put his bike away and came back out. He said, coach, I need to talk to you. You know, you told us that we need to have convictions and we need to stick to our convictions and and our beliefs, whatever they are, and be strong in them. And I want you to know that my hair, my long hair is a statement of how I feel about the Vietnam War, the situation today that our country is in. And coach looked at him and he said, well, Bill, I'm proud of you. I really think that's important that you know what you believe in and your values and you're sticking with them, and that I couldn't be more proud of you. But, Bill, I got to tell you, I'm going to miss you. Now that's leadership. That's your yes. Is yes. Your no is no. And as a leader, you have to convey your values, what you believe in, what your company believes in, what you stand for to the troops. You know you are the shepherd. They are the sheep. But keep in mind that the shepherd had the rod, but he didn't use the rod to beat the sheep over the head. He used to guide him. And yeah, there would be times when, you know, if I'm the shepherd and I got 300 sheep and I find out the weather conditions are changing, I might say, all right, listen up, sheep. We got to move from this pasture to that pasture. And sure enough, there'll be one little sheep in that group, or maybe two who will say, No, I'm not moving. And they'll take their little hoofs and dig them in the in the turf. Now, in a flock of sheep that I studied this, it's sort of interesting. There's always a hedge runner or two and they'll run the hedge and they'll try to dig themselves out. And of course, it's perilous for the other sheep, because Mr. Coyote comes in and has a nice lunch on the on them. But I asked the question in one of my leadership books, what do you do with this one that runs the hedges and digs? And I answer it with two words lamb chops. You eat the sucker, you know what I'm saying? And in business, there's times where if you have a cancer in your organization, you got to cut it out. So leadership is tough. It's tough making those decisions because it affects a lot of people's lives.
So John Wooden was an authoritarian with what he did with with Bill Walton, not because he didn't have rules. You have to have rules. It's because of the way he related to Bill Walton, isn't it? Right.
And he would. And notice what he said. I think it's great that you stick to your convictions, I really do. But we're going to miss you. I chuckled out loud when I heard that. It's just it's clearly a leader. And as a leader, sometimes you got to get them behind closed door. You don't do it in front of everybody. And you say, you know what? We need improvement.
Yeah. Okay, so how do you talk to the leader who has to make the hard decision and and let the lamb go and, you know, fire a person or, um, you know, say we're downsizing. How are you going to couch that? How does a great leader do that?
Well, in this day and age, businesses all have HR people. And when people are not doing things right, they get a letter put in their file. It's sort of a warning that changes need to occur. The Great Leader will get behind that person's eyes and hear and see how that person sees life. And if it really needs to, need an adjustment. You, as a leader or that person's immediate supervisor, has to really work at getting them to see that you know what? That's not going to fly. And so you do it respectfully. I've got a son in law who's the head of a big firm and all the HR, and they fire people all the time, and it's just the way it is today. So is it a blow to people? Yeah. But keep in mind, I was out at one of my schools this morning. I have eight charter schools, six here in Arizona and two in Colorado. We're talking about failure. And that failure is a part of life. And if you look at your life, Christian people, when did you come to Christ? Did you come to Christ out of victory or did you come to Christ out of failure? I'm here to tell you you came out of failure. You had to be submissive. You had to get to that point. Say, Lord, I can't do this on my own. I want you to come into my life and change my life. I'm going to follow your direction. And you trust the Holy Spirit to lead you through life. So sometimes when you get dismissed from a job or something, it's it turns out to be, for many people, the best thing that ever happened to them, because they got a chance to retool and revisit and look at themselves.
Yeah, it can be. And but that relational thing that you mentioned, and yesterday we did a program on failure and how we had Jason Gray on a little earlier this week. And he said I, he had a stuttering problem when he was a child, and it followed him into adulthood. And he played this venue and the story was just awful. He said. I thought it was a failure. And then he looked around and he saw there were a number of people waiting for him to talk with him afterward, because what he did when he sang, he didn't didn't stutter, but his vulnerability spoke to them in a way. And I want to talk with you about that. We're going to continue with Doctor Kevin Lehman. Here's our number (877) 548-3675. Be a great leader by Fridays. Our featured resource at Chris Fabry live.org. More straight ahead. Doctor Kevin Lehman is at the radio backyard fence today. Be a great leader by Friday is our featured resource. I want to mention Karen at, uh. Kevin and I were talking in the break here about the leaders of that organization and how they don't want you to just be and they don't want to be just pro Pro-Life. They're pro abundant life, meaning life for the child as well as everybody making that decision about abortion. January's Sanctity of Human Life Month and Carenet is committed to helping people understand that whole concept every day. They're doing the hard work of reaching hearts and lives with the truth that life is precious and there are better answers than abortion. To that end, they developed a free Sanctity of Human Life kit that you can download. It was used on the Sanctity of Human Life Sunday, but it's still there. It's designed to guide your church through three transformative actions to elevate, engage, and empower. Elevate Jesus, engage the community with stories and empower with action. Practical steps for you and your church community to make a tangible impact. You'll find it right there. Just go to npr.org. Click the green net link and you'll see that free toolkit right there. Go to Chris fabriclive.org. Click the green net link. Today the subtitle of Be a Great Leader by Friday is five Winning Plays to Spark Your World Changing Potential. And Casey is in Venice, Florida. Casey, go right ahead.
Hi. Well, yeah, I'm trying to change the world in high school. And one of the big problems I have is getting the kids to stay off their phones. And I feel like I start strong, and then they wear me down. And so, you know, I wondered if you maybe had some suggestions. Because I definitely want to try to be a strong leader. But, you know, you get a couple that just don't want to do it and makes it like you can't, you know, it's just a mess.
Yeah. You know, the cell phone is the new Goliath, and we're not going to get rid of the cell phone, but a biased opinion. Again, I have eight schools. Cell phones should be put away for parents who buy. fifth graders, sixth graders, fourth graders, seventh graders, phones. Um, I'm going to try to say this as nice as I can. Uh. You're nuts. Uh oh. Doctor, you don't understand. It's a safety issue. Okay, if it's a safety issue, buy him a safe phone where you can put 10 or 20 numbers in there, and they can talk to anybody. They want their best friend forever. And you if there's an emergency or whatever. But you're not giving him the conduit to the sewer of life, which has become the internet in so many ways. And there are schools you in fact, I just was listening to the news this morning, and there are high schools now that are flat out banning them from being, uh, in school. Uh, there's other schools who appropriately, appropriately say that cell phone has to be in your locker. They're not allowed in the classroom. And I think that's the prudent thing to do because they're very distracting. Acting, and we really teach kids by way of cell phones to be impersonal, not to talk to people, not to be accountable for anything. And it presents really a la la view of life. And, uh, they're addictive. That little Bing goes off and everybody's got a cell phone. I got news for you. Which you do. And you hear that little bang, you grab your phone and you look at it. What did I miss?
Even if it's not to you.
Oh, yeah. Oh.
Cause it's like it goes off and everybody is looking.
It's crazy. So, you know, you have to win the cooperation. I learned a long time ago when I first job at the University of Arizona was a head resident job, 180 kids and, uh, college students. And the dean of students who became a close friend of mine said, Kevin, I have, uh, one word of advice for you. I said, what's that? He said, learn to win their cooperation. There's 180 of them and one of you. So if you're in a school Situation. Whatever your situation is, try to win the cooperation of people you work with. Put together some. Get some input from parents and work toward minimizing that distraction, especially in a school setting.
Does that help Casey? Or, you know, I've heard other teachers say it goes into when the kids come in in the front, all the phones go into one little bin and then they get them at the end of the period if they, you know, if they're allowed in the school. Something like that. Would that help?
Well, I've tried it. The problem is you get a couple that don't want to do it, and it's like I'm an elective teacher. So there's a different attitude about like if you go into math, it's like, oh, I got to have this to graduate. And there's this like, you know, different kind of cooperation and like structure where I've tried that, but then you still get the kids that, you know. So then I said, okay, well then just put it in your backpack, but then I've got it to where they literally will put it in their lap. And I'm like, put it away. And they just it's defiant right to my face. And it's like I called the parents. And parents are like, I don't know what to do either. And so I'm just kind of like, well, yeah, I like they did the cooperation thing. I mean, there's always going to be a few that, you know, push back, like you said, that hedge running sheep. But I just wondered, you know, in general, I was thinking maybe, you know, the winning, the cooperation that that would be helpful.
Yeah. But let me commend you for calling home. One of the things I tell our teachers in the first two weeks of the school year, I want you to call home. I know it's another thing for teachers to do. And they rail at that sometimes. But you know what? I've learned that that sets the tone for the entire school year. And you tell them what your hours are and your availability. You just give them a quick thing. You know, Jake seems to be doing well in school. He seems to have a lot of friends. I see him out in the playground. He seems like he really enjoys school and he certainly enjoys his friendships. He talks a little bit too much, But don't don't a lot of us. But I mean, you connect with that parent. And when you do, if you can get the parent to feel like you really are a friend. And I was an old dean of students at the university, and I'd stand up at, at orientation, believe it or not, and give 6000 parents my home telephone number. And I would say, listen, if there's a problem, we all get that call in the middle of the night. Something's happened that's tragic in your family. I want you to know you have a source right here at the University of Arizona. And here's my number. And we had so many parents walk away from that parent orientation saying, you know, when you gave us that number, I couldn't believe it. But I feel better about leaving my son or my daughter here now. And so you have to live life smart and put yourself in the people's, whether it's your students or the parents. Put yourself in their shoes. And what would you want to hear from that leader? And again, they don't care what you know. Until what. Until they know you care.
Be a great leader by Friday. Casey. Thanks for your work with those kids and the struggle that's there even in the middle of that struggle. You told me in the break, though, Kevin, that a lot of people say, oh, well, I don't need to listen to this because I'm not a leader or I'm not in business or I don't have a big company. ET cetera. ET cetera. But these principles can be transferred into your daily life in marriage.
Right? Yeah. We have five kids, you know, and people know. Most of the people know my story. We had three kids, and then we had a little surprise at age 42 and 44. And, I mean, that was a surprise. But then we had the shocker at 48 and 50. And I remember having a conversation with God that said, you know, God, you're supposed to be a loving God. This is sort of cruel. This is I'm doing the the math in my head. How old am I going to be when she's 20? You know, and I'm going, oh my goodness. But I went to a friend's house in New York, and my best friend's wife said to me, Kevin, can you think of a better home for that little kid to grow up in than yours? And it's amazing what those words meant to my heart. And I went home with a whole new attitude and say, hey, we're going to tackle this with love and a smile on our face. And we just married her off last April. And, uh, thank goodness. But, you know, life does give you some curveballs, but, um, God has a plan for our life. We know that. And sometimes we scratch our head and say, really? But, you know, we used to sing the song in the church a lot. Trust and obey, because there's no other way. But, you know, once you commit your life to Christ, you got to trust and you have to obey and you go down. I wrote a little book on Proverbs three, and in those little few verses the last sentence says, and he will direct your paths. And I try to remind people, you don't. You don't have one path in life. You get a lot of paths in life, but he will direct your paths in life. So sometimes you get curveballs. You roll with it as best you can, but you know you can be a leader in the home, Mrs. Uppington. Okay. I'm not kidding you, Chris. She's half raccoon. She she's nocturnal. She's up till 2:00 reading. She keeps me awake. I finally moved to another bedroom. If anybody is curious, I don't mind sharing that because I couldn't get to sleep at night. She's always reading. Then about 2:00, she goes out in the neighborhood, tips over a few garbage cans, comes back to to bed, you know, and and, uh, we are so, uh, different. But with five kids. Mrs. Uppington the firstborn. She likes her time by herself. So one night, I took her to a nice restaurant in Tucson, where we live most of the time to a nice four star restaurant. She likes the more forks, the better. I'm from Buffalo. One fork. Even plastic is fine with me. We're very different on that front. But afterward, we came down Campbell Avenue and I pulled into a parking lot of a really nice hotel in Tucson. When it's May and it's getting hot. They reduce the $300 room to like $69 by kind of a deal. And so we pulled in the parking lot and she looks at me, what are we doing here? I said, honey, we're going to go in the hotel. Now, this is a quote. She said, I don't know what you have in your mind, but I am not getting out of this car. Now, I would call that an uncooperative spirit. Okay. So I go around to open the door for her and she's locked the door. Well, I got the key in my hand. I open the door. I'm not making this up. And I literally lifted her up out of the and body language. Her arms are crossed and she's sort of strutting like, okay, I'm going in here, but trust me, this is not going to be what you think it's going to be or something to that to that effect. And so we go. She starts going to the front door. I said, no, this way. Well, I've already been in the room that afternoon. There's three books. Mystery books. She loves mystery books. There's a little love note from yours truly. There's a single flower. I pull back the sheets of a king sized bed. I kissed her good night, ordered room service for her, and told her I'd be back at 1:00, which is late checkout, to take her to breakfast. Now you have to know who you're leading. And I've done that lots of times in marriage where I know my wife. I know what she likes. Well, if you're the leader. Leader. And they like a kitten, and, you know, they say, wow, I.
My guess is she knows you well enough. Oh, yeah. As well. Oh, yeah. That this is reciprocal. And you didn't do that for her to reciprocate?
No, no, she's kidnapped me.
She's. She leads you as well. Okay, let me take our final break here. And I want when we come back, I want to ask you about the whole aging process because you mentioned this when we before we even started the program. And I want to talk with you about that. Be a great leader by Friday. Five winning plays to spark your world changing potential. It's our featured resource by Doctor Kevin Leman. It's a resource at Chris Fabry Live. Our final segment is coming up straight ahead on Moody Radio. If you give a gift to Chris Fabry live by next Friday, we're going to send you Tim Challies book, Pilgrim Prayers. I've been talking about it all this month. I can't say enough about it. I've been reading these for the last six months or so. I've been reading one a day, and there's something about the depth of these poems from the 17 and 1800s. Most of them are, and the things that people have gone through in their lives that speak into our lives today here in 2025. Give a gift of any size at the website Chris Fabry live.org. Or you can call 86695 Faber and we'll send you a copy of Pilgrim Prayers, devotional poems that awaken your heart to the goodness, greatness, and glory of God. Kevin's got a copy of it right there. He's reading it. He's going to have to take that away from you because he got some more questions. Go to chris.org or call 86695 Faberry. I didn't mention this when Casey called in, but you worked on a book with your daughter Kristen that's coming out in April. Be a great teacher by Friday. Tell me about that. That must have been a kick.
Yeah. It was. It's fun to work with your daughter on something like that. She's in charge of all of our teachers at Leman Academy of Excellence, and we have two schools in Parker, Colorado, and then we have six schools here in the state of Arizona. And, you know, teachers need teaching and they need instruction. They need encouragement. And it comes out April 1st, and people can get it on Amazon or any bookstore. But it was really just fun to do. Uh, my advice to teachers everywhere, and this comes from speaking at women of Faith in Las Vegas. 10,000 women. I'm the only male in the house in the smell of estrogen was overwhelming. But I remember you get this big. They get these three big screens up there. It's 10,000 people in the round. And, uh, okay. You're introduced. Okay. And you'd think that it would be quiet. Well, they're women. Let's start with that. So what are they doing? They're. They're talking. Well, actually, Doctor Lehman, we're sharing. We're sharing. Okay. You're sharing, I get it. Well, the volume goes down, but what I've learned is a speaker and I pass this on to our teachers all the time, is it's very uncomfortable to stand there with a spotlight in your face. You really can't see them. You can just see the outlines of their bodies and the chairs. You can see a little movement and it's very uncomfortable just to stand there. But I don't say one word, not one word, until all of a sudden the crescendo goes down. And then and then all of a sudden, like in 20s, it goes boom, boom. And all of a sudden it's deathly quiet. Now you say something. Now I still remember what I said at women of Faith. I said, I've chosen my topic tonight. How to be a submissive woman. That got their attention real good. Uh, but again, my point is that for teachers, you have to have a presence and you show your authority by not opening your mouth until everyone's quiet. Again, I was just at one of our schools this morning. I marvel at how these kids will, with just a hand signal from the teacher, all of a sudden become quiet and attentive. We train them up. Hey parents, if you have a puppy, when do you start training the puppy? When they're a year old. You're going to have a bad dog. So training starts early and kids are very trainable. And quite frankly, husbands are trainable too.
Some of them.
Are. I mean, I'm like I'm like some are still looking for a fish.
Okay, Kevin, you're you're in your 80s now. Did you ever think you'd be 81?
No. Mickey Mantle once said if he knew he was going to live this long, he would have taken better care of himself. But no. But you know what? I'm. I'm still speaking all over. And I do TV and radio all the time, and I'm still young at heart. So I'm going to continue to do what I love doing and what I think God wants me to do in life.
So aren't you speaking from the overflow now, in a sense, all the things that you've learned and the experiences that you've had.
You know, when I was a kid, they called me a wise guy. Now when I get introduced, I get introduced as a man of wisdom. You know, I sort of chuckle at that, but I'll share something personal. When I was a kid, my mother put on my wall a little saying. And it said only one life will soon be past. Only what's done for Christ will last. I hated that thing in my room. I was embarrassed to have it in there. And when my boyfriends came over and we played on the floor and played games and stuff, I was very self-conscious about that. Now I'm. Yeah, I'm past 80, and I just recited it verbatim. In retrospect, I'm so glad that my mom planted those seeds in my heart long before I came to Jesus when I was 21 years of age. I mean, the one thing I didn't want to be when I met my wife, I mean, I started that story. I mean, I was in love. I mean, in about three months into the Into the relationship. She pops the question and she says, would you like to go to church with me and Chris? I remember thinking, oh, no, she's one of them. That's all I need. And so what do you say? You say? Yeah, I was just thinking about going to church. I lied through my teeth. And then. Then she wanted me to go back on Sunday night. And I remember being there Sunday morning and saying, no chicks worth this. This is brutal. But it's funny how God works in our life, because that Sunday night, the guy was talking about the guy who knew who Jesus was in his head. My mom, my mother dragged me to church. I knew all those Bible stories, but I didn't know him in my heart, in my my, my life. I mean, it changed. It changed in seconds. And I still remember the sweat pouring down. I remember walking out of that church and saying, okay, Lord, I'm yours. I don't know where this is going, but I'm going to trust you. And I went back to school full time, and this is a miracle because I got on the Dean's list and I was working full time and I never looked back. I became an honors student. God gave me motivation. The rest is history.
And part of what you're talking about, the way of the Shepherd. There's a book that you've written that that covers some of those things. And even in Be a Great Leader by Friday, you're talking about the servant leadership of Jesus as well and what he's done in your life.
Yeah. The way the shepherd is sort of the big picture of leadership. Be a great leader by Friday and sort of how do I do that today? And it's good for kids. It's good for managers, for wannabe CEOs. And I do a lot of speaking to CEO groups. They love this stuff. Yeah.
Thanks for your friendship through the years.
Hey. Thank you. It's so much fun to be with you again.
We're going to keep this conversation going. As a matter of fact, if you're a back fence partner with us, we're going to record a video and I'll send it to you next week. But, um, you stay right where you are ensconced in that chair, and I'll tell you that, be that. Be a Great Leader by Friday is our featured resource at Chris Fabry live.org. Five Winning plays to spark your world changing potential wherever you are on that spectrum of leadership. And maybe you say, well, I don't have much leadership at all. No you do. There are people that God has entrusted to you. If you have a family, even as a single person, you're a leader. This might be something that would really, really help you be a great leader by Friday. Have a great weekend. Come on back on Monday because I've got a friend named Carl who says he wants you to pick the one thing that is holding you back in your life. God does not want you to be held back, and he's going to tell you how to kill that thing that is holding you back. We'll talk about it Monday on Chris Faber Live production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.