Catching up with the CamdensBev, David and Mack sit down to express their feelings after rewatching one of the highlight episodes from 7th Heaven, Season 1: The Color of God.
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Oh she was.
She was trying to like come up with like a knock knock joke or like a you know, a kind of like what was her thing? Like what she asked, like what do you drink when you're when you whine? And she's like, you drink wine and she like didn't like she didn't understand like like the call the call answer kind of structure or whatever.
So then I'm like trying to teach her like do.
You ever have your kids like tell the truth? Like do you tell your kids when they're not funny?
Yeah? I let her know. I don't want I don't want my kid to think she's funny. She's not funny. I don't.
I think some people think that I'm mean, But like Kenzie and Hutton have told me jokes and I'm like, Kenjie, that's not funny, and then Hutton will come with one that is funny. Oh my god, that was great, and Kenji's.
Like, you're not funny's funny, like you're that you're you know, you're authentic, Like no, and I'm.
A hyper critical Well, I mean we're.
Criticism, but it's it's different, like I don't it's not that I don't want my kid to be funny.
I want to be that.
I want my kid to be funny. So I want her to under I want what she's trying to do. When when my kid was trying to figure out how to tell jokes, she was I could tell because she was trying to make up her own jokes.
Yes, so she was trying.
To figure out not just how to tell a joke, but how jokes work. And she and she would I could see her trying to like work it out, like how to be funny, not why I think you know what I mean? Like and so uh so she would she would tell me a bad joke and I'd be like, no, dude, it doesn't work, like it's not uh that's not really funny. And then and then I'd try to explain to her why it's not funny. And then I spent a few days with her in the car like trying to explain to her like the anatomy of jokes, like how how you'm a punchline where like set a setup and a knockdown kind of a thing exactly. But then she would get mad, she like doubled downs. So then we were like we would be in a public place and she'd be like, Papa, watch this, and then she'd tell her bad joke to someone else who would like politely laugh at her, and then she'd look at me and like, see it is funny, and I'm like, they're.
Lying to you.
And I would say right in front of them, and the person would be like, you know what I mean, like like shop that. I was like calling them out in front of my kid, and I'm like, they're lying to you. You're not funny, dude. You gotta do it.
We're got to work on it. So I bought her.
Like a dad joke book, Like, I took her to Barnes and Noble and we went joke book shopping so that she could.
Like study like silly little jokes.
And the reason why I went for a dad joke book is because it's the simplest structure of joke. It's silly, it's straightforward, it's kind of easy. So then yeah, so then she started kind of like and that was how we we did that. So she has her little joke book that she like references and sometimes she comes out with a good one, Like she'll find a good one in there and hit us with it.
It's good it's gotten better.
I do have to say that like of my kids, like Hutton is definitely the one who like he's got the timing, he's got his little raspy voice, and he can come out with some really good ones. And then Kenzie tries so hard and every time I'm like crickets and I'm.
Like, I can't wait to get like it. And I think.
Mazie's just gonna come out like I mean, I don't know that one.
I'm not.
I have no idea what's going to come out of her mouth.
Get her a joke book.
I don't even think I need to. I think that she's gonna We're gonna be the butt of her jokes for sure.
Well, just watching all of you, I.
Know she's going to be so good. But I mean, I'm glad we had this conversation all about jokes and fun. But maybe we should intro and get into a very special episode of seventh teven.
Well, there is actually a running joke the whole episode with everyone involved.
Oh yes, there is a joke. Actually, Well, I'll do the intro. Hey, guys, welcome back to catching up with the Campdens. I am Beverly Mitchell I'm David Gallagher, I'm Kenzie Rosmin and today we are rewatching episode five of season one, which is The Color of God. This was Wow. There's so much to unpack out of this episode.
Yeah, so much.
It's one of my favorites though in the sense that, like we went for the Fences, man.
It was a huge episode for us in its day. Like at the time, it was a really impactful episode.
I remember it.
It was controversial, like you know, in its time, but like looking back on the show as a whole, there's some cringe and there's some stuff that doesn't age great, and there's a lot of that stuff. But man, the powerful like solidarity messaging in this episode is something to be proud.
Of, I think absolutely. I mean, we were dealing with a huge subject. We were dealing with racism, and we you know, what I found so oppressive was how we were able to reach the subject of racism for every one of the kids. So we were able to have conversations at every age level that was age appropriate, and that allowed a conversation that is uncomfortable, but in a way that opens up a dialogue. And I think that's what our show was so good at was opening up. And that's what Brenda was brilliant. Brenda was brilliant about using this platform to have conversations that no one wanted to have, but create these opportunities for families to talk about things and for people who might have been on one side to start understanding the other side. Like it was, it was, there was always two sides to it.
So, I mean, it's we said it before, but this is like, this is one of the peak examples of like strong progressive messaging wrapped in conservative family values. And like the episode watching it fresh, I mean, so much of it I had disassociated from or forgotten about.
It's been so long since I've seen it.
But watching it since nineteen ninety six, It's.
Been since the nineties since I've seen it, And like I was both like kind of shocked and also proud of how bold a stance we took in the episode and just what a great job everybody did.
I know, I agree, and so maybe we should dive in. I mean, I think the episode starts with actually a funny joke, that's true, A prank actually is more of a prank.
A prank, yeah, a prank which is apparently.
Which is which is an old school prank, pure mischief.
It's adorable, no, yes, and I but what I also love is the ongoing opportunity to use this rank to cut tension or frustration like it was always it was always utilized to bring people together.
Yeah, so it was.
It was actually what united us was this like silly, which, by the way, I might try on my kids. Like I definitely m I'm definitely going to do the butter trick. Let's put some salt on butter and see if it heats up, and my kids might get smashed. I just gotta figure out whiche I'm gonna do.
My kid's gonna fall for it, but she's going to be mad after she falls for it because she knows she should know better.
But like we start off the episode where Matt is playing the prank on Mary and it kind of course it also goes age related, it goes down.
It goes down, which is a cute family trope.
But I love that the prank is set up right away because the real payoff for the prank is to cut like you said, to cut tension later, right, and so setting it off going down the chain and then where it ends, I think is a great payoff.
It's perfect.
So we start off kind of in the kitchen with the tension. We're all being Campden's starting starting just like we normally would.
And I'm mad that you missed I'm mad about.
I'm always mad about something. Oh, I'm oh because I felt left out though, because I was out with Happy because apparently I.
Were like outside, he didn't know breakfast time, and I was.
Really mad, which, by the way I lived, I would be mad if somebody did not feed me. So let's just but any of the.
Like, well, sorry you missed it.
They said, like, I'll make you breakfast.
It will take two seconds, and you're like, first of all, it's not ready right now.
I don't want Eric to make me pancakes. We don't know how good his food is.
Any other established in this episode that he's terrible.
But then we go to Simon and Ruthie who are watching TV and you.
Have do you know what that cartoon was? I was wondering whether that was like an actual No.
I think they had access because we were WB.
I think they had access to like old WB cartoons, and I think that's where they pulled all that kind of stuff.
If I had to guess that's.
That way, and then you have the big discovery that sets off the whole episode.
Right, So I start channel surfing, which makes which makes you dizzy, which is something I hear at home and uh and and I find the news story that the the the Hamilton church has been burned down.
Yeah, which and the Hamilton's are a family very much like the Camdens, Yes, with similar age children and a very very close family.
To Eric and Morgan went to seminary too.
They went to Seminary together. We've been family friends for a long time. And they were targeted because they're black, and the black community church was targeted as a way of trying to drive that community down, or drive them away, or intimidate them.
And so and we had incredible actors. We had Dorian Harewood, we had Olivia Brown, chas Lamar Shepherd, Gabrielle Union some people might know her, Camille Wynn Bush and David and they were so good and it was so fun having them on set.
Every time they came, and they came on the set all the time. We had them back many times over and they were family. I remember being so excited when I knew that Nedder was going to be back on set because like me and him got along famous.
You were best best.
I haven't I haven't spoken to him in so long. I just I'd love to see him again. Man, we gotta we gotta see.
We might have to get we might have to get him on the podcast.
He was he was my boy. We were we were, we were tight. It was great.
So, you know, the show launches into basically this huge heavy weight of like trying to also be there for them and their community and support the Hamilton's. And there's a while Reverend Hamilton is on the news. He has a very strong messaging and a beautiful statement saying you cannot hate, you cannot fight hate with hate, and even if the criminals are caught, we still have their teachers out there. And I think that that was like such a very strong message and it resonates.
What it does what I think is interesting and what's hard to do, is it it rationalizes the idea that you can't fight hate with hate.
It gives you the reason why.
Yeah, and because this is something that you hear and it sounds like a throwaway statement that doesn't have any weight, like you can't fight hate with hates, like he be statement or something, but they contextualize it and they say, like, you know, even if we stop these people, the people who taught them to hate are still around. And so you have to find a better way to combat hatred that actually diffuses it, that teaches people that it's wrong and not just stops the people who act on their hatred, but it gets to the hearts of people who have it in them.
And I think that this episode is a perfect example of being able to reach those people. That's what this show.
And that's what we're trying to do.
That's what we were doing. What we're trying to do, yeah, is kind of reach those people where you can allow them to see something a little bit differently than how they may have been raised. Because also that's the other hard part is like a lot of this is generational. This is like coming from generation after generation. So you have to find the break and where you can break that generational thought process.
And this cuts right into our show's greatest strength when it comes to social messaging is that you can attack a subject like this from every age group. Because we had all of the kids going up, you know, you had your teenagers, your preteens, we had the little ones. We had the you know, almost the young adults and the adults, and so every age group got to react uniquely from their life experience perspective, Like the young kids contextualize it so differently than the adults do.
And so that is.
That's where our show, that's what we were really good at and how the writers really understood that strength from the beginning.
Right.
So then when we come back, we have the Hamilton family is at the house and and you see that just the different levels and the different dynamics between it's mostly older kids. There's a lot of tension.
Yeah, because you guys, there's a big difference between.
Yeah, well there, well we have the younger said, and the older said, no, no, no.
I meant I meant what I'm what I was going to say is like, the younger kids are getting along great. You guys are having a blast. Yeah, the older kids, you can cut the tension with a knife.
Yes, we do not we are.
Awkward or uncomfortable. I think Lucy, Mary and Matt.
Are they know how they should be with each other. Where Lucy apologizes numerous times and she's like, I'm sorry about your church. She's like, you've said that's the third time you've said that, right, And Mary is just like, I mean, it's so awkward that eventually you're not even there for a couple of minutes before you just decide to leave the room and matc walks out and he's like, I'll be back soon, maybe, I guess, And then they cut immediately to the little kids who are just like oblivious to the fact that they that there could be a reason for tension.
Well, I think it's a perfect example too of how the innocence yes, yeah, and how as the preteens, well we fully.
Us exposure to people justifying reasons.
To well, I think because you didn't, I don't think. I mean it felt like to as the as being part of that. And I just even remember being in the scene just like it was even it was uncomfortable even acting in it because even though I we loved it, because I it's an uncomfortable conversation, it's an uncomfortable subject. Everything's uncomfortable even when you're acting it because you don't feel that way, and you but you're afraid of like anything being misinterpreted. And I think what was a beautiful about all of this is to start to unravel and see how they are each side of them, and like how how the the Hamilton's felt, how we felt, and then how we all come together. And but I just absolutely loved the parison with the teenagers versus the kids because I loved the innocence and I loved the complete opposite.
Basically, yeah, yeah, there's so there's there's so many layers to it. Honestly, First of all, it's the message of you can't fight hate with hate is not preachy in the episode, which would be like the first easy criticism to kind of throw at it like flippantly. It's not preachy at all, because we we show some of the Hamilton family angry, they're mad, they're dealing with their hate. So there's and and and that causes all this tension. The older kids they can contextualize this socially, They can contextualize this in their own lives.
They feel personally attacked.
They have that justifiable like hatred in them, and they're trying to deal with it, and they're dealing with it like well and not well, you know what I mean, Like they're they're they're having that struggle, whereas the younger kids are playing and it's not that they're oblivious to the hatred, it's that they don't have that social context to take it out on their environment, like they they like, that's it's this hatred that Yeah, so they like, I'm hanging out with my friends, so we're going to play and have a good time, and and you know there's outside, there are these other problems, and so they have more of a separation, a contextual separation. The older kids have more experience with that hatred personally, and so they're dealing with the hate and so that the layers to that to dealing with this message is strong and I think it's it's it's noticeable, it's well done.
Yeah, definite.
All right, well I think we will be right back. Okay, and we're back.
You know what.
I again, I love that we continue the better trick because we start to see it like kind of trickle down, and I actually like, I loved that. It was the opportunity. The butter trick was actually what helped me connect with gabriel with Gabrielle, with Keisha, because Lucy's kind of this nervous Nelly that keeps apologizing for everything, doesn't stand up and then finally like I do it on you. I use it on Simon because Simon won't pick up his toys and was like, you were you were kind of assassin.
Me, and so Simon, Simon knows better. Yeah, it didn't work, And this is this is what I'd expect from my kids. Like Simon knows better, but he like kind of he wants to see what everyone's talking about. So all right, fine, and then when he gets tricked, he's just like.
And you wipe it on your pants, wipe it on your.
Wipe it on my pants, which is perfect.
But I love it was that it changed the relationship between her and Keisha, and all of a sudden there was this sisterhood where she like she was standing up for me where Mary had kind of been ignoring me. And so that's where Lucy's and it.
Was Mary's turn to feel left out sort of as well.
Yeah, that's the start of it.
Yeah, I love too.
The difference I'll say quickly about your your stuff in this is that the.
The Lucy Mary dynamic.
You guys are close in age, and so you can always like get two sides of the coin with you too, right, and so you are so empathetic that you just don't know what to say, and it's almost like paralyzing how empathetic your character is, whereas Mary's more the kind of character who's like, well, it had nothing to.
Do with me.
I don't feel like that, that's not that's not who I ask, that's not who I am, So I don't like I have nothing to do with it.
Which both are appropriate in their own way.
But to watch you guys find the kind of the middle way that has the that has the empathy that reaches out, but with the confidence to know that that's not who you.
Are, right totally. So that's where you guys are trying to That's fun.
It's a great it's a great little juxtaposition between the two characters.
Well, and I just I love the wisdom that we get. I actually love that most of the wisdom comes from the kids, it comes from Nigel, because it's absolutely and I think we actually like wrap up the first act with well, first.
Off, Nigel's prayer, his prayer, Yes, his prayer, and then they when they come back, it's about I think it's Annie in her walk or was that before then?
Well, yeah, but yeah, it's in that.
There's a wonderful there's a wonderful scene with the two moms on their walk talking about their personal lives.
Being a partner to someone who is the support person for so many other people and sort of the isolation. I feel like that they each must feel and and you know.
How and how to be strong Hamilton so not you.
Know, apparently Morgan is not a talking man and Eric is the complete opposite. And there's also a really cute scene later on where she's like, you know, Eric forces everyone to talk and she's in a corner and he tries it and she's just like out of there. Uh. He's like, oh, I wanted to talk with you, and she's like no, which is cute.
It's a great scene with it.
And also Annie and on the joke and Nanny's just laughing and.
She's and Eric's just like oblivious.
Yeah, exactly.
Yes, Catherine firing on all cylinders these first episodes. Man, I've really enjoyed. As we rewatched the first season, I just got to say again, I've totally enjoyed Catherine's work through the first season so far.
It's been so stellar.
Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, she's just the perfect So.
Then we I know, it really is and uh. And and we wrap up our dinner scene. We're all having dinner together. There's all of the tension and and Nigel has his short and sustaining.
But I what I do love though, actually is not just Nigel's prayer, but I love that it's uh, Eric asks Simon to give the prayer, and you so brilliantly, like and sweetly just are like, no, no, and I give it up to your buddy.
Yeah.
And and there was something also just about that offering of someone else in your in our house and you're like, no, no, no, you're our guests like it. There was more to it than you just letting him have the process.
There's some acknowledgment that Nigel would probably have something more to say in the moment.
Yeah, and it's uh yeah, it's and.
Then from the little kid table too, Yeah, yeah, Burton versus the head of the big table.
I love the little kid table by the way.
Everything.
Yeah, the big family dinner with the separate little kid table the best.
Yes, yeah, I still try to say it at that table.
What does say is Nigel.
Nigel says his prayer, which is just dear God, please please stop the fires. And it's it has that that innocence, but it cuts with a knife straight to the point. And uh so it's a great it's a great moment and uh and you know, and Netdter does an excellent job of just matter of factly hitting you with with that sentiment.
Simple, simple. And so then when we come back, we have Annie and Patricia and then in the kitchen and they're talking about rebuilding the church and apparently there's an emergency fund and Eric is, you know, they're going to give them a percentage of of the money from the emergency fund, and it's basically all that they need to read.
It's all of it.
And she's like, well, you know, that's what it's there for, and which is exactly It's exactly right, and it's it's so appropriate. Yeah, it's the sweetest, most correct thing.
I think, absolutely excellent show of like community and solarity, exactly excellent.
Yeah, and I love you know when they're when they're in the church and you see we split the congregation and you know, like they're sharing it in the church. I'm splitting it.
But yeah, I very specifically noted to myself because when I saw the wide shot in the church, I went did we split the con is it a left and right congregation.
All blooded together?
But which is.
Like like well done the right way to do it, like to not, I didn't know.
I didn't mean to say like we split it. I mean that shared Like I thought that was really.
Really you know, it's excellent because not only do we it's it's also a setup because community, we share our church with them and in the end they share theirs with us.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was really sweet.
And then we have this beautiful hairstyle that can get pass which.
Were tell us about how that felt the.
Braids, which I those hurt, Like that was painful. I just remember having the worst headache and it took I have very thick hair. It took hours hours. I just remember. I think I was in the chair for like five hours. And I just remember being like, like I appreciate the beautiful braids. I just like anyone who has those braids, I'm like, you are amazing, Like that is incredible. Like there, it's just that was.
Yeah.
My scalp also got fried. I during that.
Time, how did it get fried?
Being outside? Well, because you're because your raids, so your scalp is excessive, and so you just get destroyed. I had to wear those for a week. It looked like I had been electrocuted. When we pulled those out. I have a picture. I literally my hair was like yeah, because the braids were so tight.
Yeah, they got to be you had you had.
I feel like, I think it gets more comfortable after they grow out a little bit and then it's not as tight. I also have to say I only had them on for a week. That never happened.
Oh god, it was awful. But I do remember also, I think because Keisha is so sweet and is like, you know, just I'm like her sister, and she just like brought me into the mix, and I.
Think that was really it was like Lucy never felt more accepted at that point.
I think, I know it's and then we we go to we all go to school and you have a very.
Yeah.
So then we get into the school yard where this is I think really probably Simon's first big iconic kind of moment. I mean, I'm not trying to be like it's iconic, but like it was one of my first like seriously heavy moments that kind of reverberated through the shows where we have we're in the schoolyard playing Nigel and I. We have a bunch of other kids playing with us. We're all playing with my toys and we're having We're playing like war or guns or like you know, soldiers or what any of those kind of pretend play things that that young boys do, that I did when I was little, and and that that is really common. And Nigel is killed in the game, and then Simon comes in.
Simon comes in.
With the revive He's got the revive action and he revives Nigel's character, which which angers some other kid who who then does something that you just don't would not catch on on TV these days, I don't think at all, which is he he drops an end bomb, not even at Nigel directly, but at Simon for being friends with Nigel, which suddenly contextualizes that hate for Simon, who gets instantly heated and demands in ay and and is and you could see that he's seething over it. And Nigel comes to Simon's side and he says, I don't want to mess it up, but he says something like you can't fight ignorance with violence, and.
The wise Nigel so wise.
The wisdom of that statement coming from Nigel is not surprising given Nigel's character, but like, but the context of it, because throughout this episode, Nigel and I have been playing war, We've been having this pretend play violent game, and and he still has the state of mind to separate like the violent play from from the violent reality, right and that and that you know, uh, that this is not a game, that this is real life, and you can't you can't react with anger and with hatred with violence, and Simon succumbs to that anger and and punch is this kid and knocks him down in one punch, one one amazing this kid and uh and and then is like suspended over it or or something like that from the school and uh.
And so Simon fails in that moment too to listen to Nigel's wisdom.
Which is which is also great because again, if the show is trying to be extra preachy about it, then then we would all be in the right position preaching and nobody would make a mistake. But Simon takes the bait and and reacts with his anger and violence, which is exactly what they're trying to say we shouldn't do.
But I also love too, is that like when we when we all find out what has happened, and when Eric and Annie find out, there is part of them where they know that they need to discipline you. But there's also as a parent, there's this pride in the fact that you were so passionate and you stood up for your friends and defensive. So though the action was not what they.
Wanted, action was still wrong.
Their reaction motive, the motive was sincere and the emotion behind it, and I think that there was.
Like but that's the nuance that makes me love the episode, and that keeps it from being preachy in my opinion, because they're saying, yeah, I am kind of proud of him, but we have to punish him because he didn't do the right thing and our standards are better than that we have we you don't react with violence, and so I love that nuance to the episode. I think that's what makes it, That's what helps it age the right way.
Why do you think Nigel's said that he didn't know where Simon was when they.
Go to protect well, because Simon's trying, he's trying to prect he's protecting I.
Don't think so.
I think he genuinely well, I mean I think he genuinely wouldn't know because I got called to the office and then.
And then you go to your other classes.
Yeah, like he wasn't dragged at the office with me. I was.
I hit the kid. I got called to the office, and he doesn't know what happened to me.
I thought he was protecting you.
I don't know.
I read it as he wouldn't know, Like he doesn't give much context that we roll over it quickly, so he just goes I don't know where he is. But like in my head, you know, I would have gotten dragged at the office without him and suspended, so he wouldn't know.
And that was actually a really good scene too, because it also talks about like there was.
School, who is like basically your license and registration please.
Who's basically profiling and like I.
Know, no wonder but again, just another another angle to hit this kind of the racism is the theme and and and the uh and and contextualizing the experience that that the Hamiltons have in the community with with that underlying racism.
Well, and I love also to see the exact same age groups and to see how differently we were being treated. And I think like having that like so in your face and and bringing up was like so strong, and like again, I just this episode is so loaded. Yeah, it is so loaded. And because it we don't we hit on so many different ways that you're experiencing racism, Like throughout the episode, there's so much.
Yeah, there's it's a lot. It's a lot in a in a you know, for an hour show something minutes, we hit we we we attacked this subject from a lot of angles, and there's a lot of pitfalls trying to do that.
It's not an easy thing to do.
And and like I said, I think the show, for for what it is, did a really excellent job for what it is for the time like to tackle this and and kind of earnest on kind of way.
I think we did a great job.
And by the way, you know Chaz, like what I remember, like again, like the guest stars we're talking about, Gabrielle Union and like and I don't have too many memories of of them personally because I didn't work with them a lot.
They worked with you guys more.
They were your friends, you know, And like, but what I remember Chaz is he this guy has.
The like most beautiful, beautiful Yeah.
This guy has a million dollar smile if you've ever seen one like you. If this guy smiles at you, you're in love. You're in love with this guy.
A little bit, and you're the one who brings it out.
And so we get there and I don't want to ruin it.
But but what when I'm rewatching the episode, I forgot that his character began on our show angry and upset in the hot head and all this stuff, because all I remember about him is just seeing one set and he smiling and being like, wow, man, he got that.
An incredible smile, like the smile that you have to say.
It was just so warm, like and it was so great though too, because I also, I mean, I think we come back and we there's that moment in front of the house with Matt and John and when like John basically is like, what, you're afraid of me too? And when when Matt finally says it's like, no, I'm not afraid of you. I'm just like, you have an attitude I'm afraid of, like because I never know if you're going to go off. And it was this realization of like what the heaviness that he had been carrying and what he was presenting to the world that he was unknowingly doing. He wasn't aware that that's the way he was coming across and it I love that. That goes right into the dinner scene in which Matt calls.
Ruthie but like go get your sister and he's like real they and then like please.
Which if you have a big family, you better say.
That's exactly what we meant, you know.
And it's that adorable moment.
It was cute and I had forgotten about that obviously. So I'm watching, like the the butter gag, you know, make its way down the levels, and I'm like, oh, Ruthie saw somebody else. So is Ruthie going to get a chance to get someone, you know, because she like witnessed Frank but I was. I didn't remember that it was made, but it was really.
No And so it makes its way down the family. Yeah, it gets to you, and then you turn around and and and pull off the joke on the Now I'm going to try that family.
Which is the I think the most beautiful part about that. It's like the payoff, Like you said at the beginning, the payoff is when it brings it to John and we get to see his beautiful smile.
It is, it's a it's a million dollar pa it is.
And on that note, we did forget something, but but we'll get into that after breaking. Now that we're back, we should talk about this wonderful moment that we forgot, which Moon kind of qualifies as a stunt. Also with that, but right, what was that? What do you mean? It's your dancing? Oh Lucy displays some unreal dance moves.
And she apparently before before you defend yourself, there's no defending. I want to say that doing scenes like this sucks, like a dance and like they're not playing any music.
Clarify that there is never any music.
I mean I could tell there was no music.
Someone behind the camera goes and dance and then fifty people stare at you wait because they're hungry and they want lunch, and.
You have to like it's so bad.
Well also nothing and then they put whatever they clear over it, and.
Can we also be.
Please can we also hold please? I am dancing with Gabrielle union totally.
How victory for.
Gabrielle not for me? Huh, well, I'm dancing with Gabrielle. How do I compare.
If I'm dancing with Gabrielle Union, the victory is mine.
I'm saying, how do you compete with someone who is like phenomenal, who has got incredible dance moves, and then like I couldn't be more awkward and strange and uncomfortable. So Gabrielle, by the for your character, Gabrielle looked amazing and she like, even though there was no music, she looked at like she had rhythm style and then there she does me, none of which infiltrated my body at all. I looked like an awkward Gerbil No.
A long hair, don't okay. So the other part about that scene too is that Mary's all pissed off because like you know, she's really pissed off because she isn't included, but she's like at using, Oh, I want to I don't want to wait until Sunday. And I just studied for my test on Mary. When was Mary like such a student?
She's not?
I know, yes, weak.
I will say.
About the dancing that Gabrielle Unions gracefully did not leave you hanging. And what is what I thought was cute about it is that you guys aren't just dancing. She's not leaving you hanging out there to dance awkwardly. You guys are dancing together. You guys are doing little butt bumps and like yeah, and that.
Stuff was cute.
So you guys had that moment together and I didn't feel like you were kind of thrown out to the wolves by yourself to like hip hop dance.
But you know, you know what's crazy is Gabrielle. I've seen Gabrielle a lot recently, and it's always We actually ran into each other Halloween and so we did not dance, and she did not bring up my awful dance black pair of rhythm. She might now, but you know, it is so funny because it's also fun to see relationships that started in nineteen ninety six and still exists. And whenever I see her, she's like absolutely freaking lovely and amazing and wonderful, which is so fun.
This is actually just reminded me, I don't know why, about the basketball scene too, where remember like going back to like that Mary and Chaz are playing basketball together and he just like doesn't let her win at all. Yeah, she's actually really good, but his like, what do you think we just go play basketball after church and.
Then he has like bad skills.
Yeah, I just I just remember in all like basketball was a big thing. Everybody did love playing basketball.
On the idea of basketball. I guess I didn't even bother utterly unathletic, So that.
Was really cute.
Though. I also think like what's great is like kind of an act three. We start to see like all the walls come down. Everyone's like kind of opening up. You see Matt and John are finally like friendly because they've broken through.
Yeah, the ice has been broken between.
Them and they've been in the house.
For like three days, right, really thanks to Ruthy totally absolutely. And then Morgan and Patricia are now like communicating, which was a big one because Eric and Annie kind of broke help broker that conversation. I love that, like Annie thinks, like a great date I would be seen like excellent. Yeah, I was like, what that's like so brand so on brand that, Like Annie's like let's go to dinner in a movie.
No, let's go to see don't have to deal with the customers, Like it's sears am.
I the only one like like Sean and I all the time are like, oh man, let's.
You want to go to home depot and look at the plants.
And we're like, let's I forgot you guys love plants.
We're yeah, we've become very planty.
But like but like that to us, like you know, like running routine, like like running an errand running errands together is like enjoy.
Yeah you have one, you know, Yeah, we're.
Still we're a small team, but like you know, like running errands is something we look forward to and try to make fun and like enjoy.
So I related to the like let's go on to Sears for our data.
We need a new lawnmower or whatever like that That landed for me as a parent.
No, it's cute. And then I also love that finally, the Kisha and Mary moment because I think that when Keisha basically like they kind of broke right, break the ice, and Keisha finally says like, like, what's your problem with me? And it's and it's she thought it was because that Mary was uncomfortable with her, and the reality is like Mary's just jealous that now all of a sudden, her little sister, who was annoying and used to like follow her around like a lost puppy, has found a new.
One else to admire exactly.
Yeah, and Keisha genuinely thinking like, oh, well, you didn't treat her very well, so I thought I was getting her out of your way, so she thought she was giving her doing a favor. And so it's this like moment, but I do love it. In Camden fashion, they quickly solve it with a hug. It's like they address it and then we hug. I was like, that is so camp.
Just an excellent way to end a disagreement.
Well, I'm just saying it's they wrapped up real quickly.
Yeah, you know, you gotta do it. Yeah, we got commercial.
Exactly.
So another interesting take. And and again that kind of plays into I think the the nuance of the writing that's that's done really well in the episode is that when when Gabrielle is talking to Jess and they're they're having that moment where she says, you know, I think you're being standoffish because you don't want me to think that you're racist or that that's prejudice, which is the language that they use. And she's kind of ahead of the curve in the sense that she she knows and she says, I know you're not like that, but she the tension is there in that very relatable way where Mary doesn't know how to kind of be an ally and not and not seem like she's part of the problem.
So she just distances herself.
Which is the verse of which is.
The opposite of what's going on between the brothers, the older brothers. And so they do a great job again of attacking that that dynamic from from two different sides.
No, it was beautifully done, and it also was perfect for the characters. It was like pinpointed for Yeah, each.
On that note, we're going to take another break. So here's my favorite moment of the show is when Mary and Lucy and Kisha are all talking and She's saying, and I'm really sorry that they burned a church town. It was sort of implying that they weren't able to worship because they had no building, and Keisha comes in saying, you know, a roof just keeps the rain off of our heads line, And I think that was like just one of the most like really hit home for me, because you know, you can make a lot of excuses for why you can't do something, but the truth is is you don't really you don't really need material things things for love and community and you can. All you need really is your heart and your intention. It just it hit home for sure.
Yeah.
I love how some of these moments that hit like that are so like straight to the point.
Yeah, and shortness. Literally they really have a kind.
Of a a poignancy that is, uh, that's that's strong in the episode.
I love also that you and Camille kind of start the like I love you and start setting.
And I love single every single character like everyone. Yeah. Absolutely, And it's so cute, Like it kind of reminds me of something my daughter does too. So when we when we leave the house, we're driving down the butt where she says goodbye, you know, the dogs will start with the buy Homer, Maggie, buy the dogs by house, bye bye. Everything. She'll say goodbye to like individual blades of grass.
It's so and it's I love And it's also it's very funny that like when you say I love you to Lucy and Mary and Keisha, that Keisha calls out like, oh my god, I feel like we're at the Waltons. And then of course Lucy and the one that's clueless says, but where and then Keisha's like, I know, I know you're you know, the Waltons aren't black, and that it was like but it was what was nice was being able to play with that moment and like also kind of have that exhale where like Lucy realizes that she just inserted her foot in her mouth and then everyone's just like all right, let it go, like it's fine, and there was h and then we go move on to you saying.
I don't know, I don't think you put your foot in your mouth. Like it capstones, you're like your lessons about about.
The the the uh.
Just awareness, Yeah, like your your whole like you're kind of lessons about the man instead, you know, Like it caps that that gag off in a way that is funny because everybody's you know, and we.
Did seem like the Waltons for everyone who knows the Waltons, which.
Yeah, we come from that family show legacy.
So it's a kind of joke the Brady Bunch comparison.
It's a meta joke. I'm low key proud of us for that.
I mean, there's a lot of low key proud moments that we're coming through.
It's a good I mean, I really do think that it's I.
Just want to say that I think on all of our behalves, like there was a part of us that we're a little nervous about this rewatch part because like some of it, like diving back in was a little scary, to be honest, and I'm actually very much enjoying it and very proud of all of us.
Yeah, I just so enjoyed.
Like you know, I was so young that like there was a level you know, I wasn't really aware of full of the storylines that were going on. But I just love when the Hamilton family came over because we had like kids age to play with for months. It was I had a score them of two kids in it and not one.
I know.
Fine when people came didn't get a lot, you had a lot of friends. You didn't have as many guest stars as well.
When you and Jesse shared a school room, so you always had someone else to be.
I always had someone to fight with because they were.
The closest in like you know, case you guys haven't know what we're yes, closest because I am a Jesse yes, yeah, but and we fought.
We didn't see the Hamilton's d as much during the later seasons, and I wish that.
Because Gabrielle Union became a big, big star.
Also, before we get out of here, the nineties vibes checked our sleepover style of two kids, same bed, opposite directions.
Yeah, yeah, how about that.
I saw that. I was like, yeah, that's those are the sleepover vibes.
I gave my bed at all. But I also want to like a serious on a serious note, to wrap up this episode, which I thought was amazing, is when Reverend Hamilton decides not to take the offer to come back to the Camden Church, but to actually have church on the grounds and and to show that no matter that the building may have burned down, but the congregation stands, and having everyone there, and then having our church come to participate and be there in support. And then also seeing which I didn't ever notice, but seeing what the extras is showing all different kinds of religions and showing the entire community. And this wasn't about religion, it was about community.
It's a moment that that could have been really cliche, but but they didn't dwell on it. They just they just showed that the Muslim leaders came in support the Jewish leaders came in support, the Christian leaders came and support the you know, the white community and the black community came together. We all came to support the black community of of the show. And and UH and and have UH and and sell have ceremony with them in their space. And I, you know again, I think it's a really strong, so strong ending to the episode with with the message of solidarity and and how he starts the end the episode with the beginning of his sermon where he takes from Nigel's prayer.
Yeah, and I stopped the fires.
I remember that song. I remember that choir all the fly away. Yes, I it went on and again it's it's things that like haven't been triggered or activated and so long. But the moment that first like bar went, I was like, I remember this so clearly.
Yeah, the way they sort of panned out at the end of the very last shot, I sort of expected. It was like it was implying almost that like the person who burned the church down was going to see this, like in a weird way, I kind of expected that. I don't know why. Maybe I'm probably the only one, but I'm like, like they did it in a way that like if only the person could see that, like they may have burned the building down, but they really didn't destroy anything. And I guess just the way they shot it, I kept thinking, like you were going to see someone. I did, because there was this like.
That's the Bucky and the rebsite.
Maybe this episode that's a different show.
But yeah, I'm like, that's Bucky and Rep.
Yeah.
But anyways, but I but it was.
I did think that what was nice is the last few seconds of the episode are that beautiful pan and it just kind of like it just allows it's almost like it's a silence for you to kind of understand the whole episode.
It was.
It was a brilliant episode. It was It was a lot of fun.
And I got to say before we end that the last shot of Reverend Hamilton, he goes up for his sermon, he has the burned stained glass behind like excellent cinematography, like really really strong imagery and MVP award, I was going to say absolutely to to Reverend Hamilton. The introduction of the Hamilton family as a whole is it is a huge moment for our show because they were so integral to our extended family on the series and having them be introduced with in such a strong way, with a strong message with with you know, with the community and turmoil and coming together the solidarity.
I was really proud of it.
Yeah. And oh, by the way, that episode was directed by Bert Brinkerhoff. I have heard that name for a while, right, that's right? Yeah?
Who was our producer that his first episode?
Uh? Well, it's crazy. I feel like we're only on episode five and I felt like this is already like season five and we're only on episode five. I mean, this is going to be a long, a long journey. Guys, It's going to be a long road.
Yep.
Remember that, Remember that worst case scenario game where like you're on that annoying road trip.
Sorry, guys, you're on that road trip with me.
There.
So the Nineties Fashion Award, who's it between?
It's between you and you?
Which a version?
Braided, the braided version.
With against two against against nobody?
You absolutely get the Nineties Fashion Awards for your braids. I don't know how else we could do that.
What I mean, you also have to like my wardrobe forgettable also was was definitely a different choice for Lucy.
That's why you get the Nineties Fashion Award, the award and take your award.
Thank the people.
Those were cute too.
Overalls, I loved my dickies. Okay, well I think that wraps up this episode. So thank you guys so much for listening to us. This is catching up with the Camden's. Make sure to follow push the like buttons.
All the things, that's all the things nothing at.
All, and make sure to follow us to stay tuned for future episodes. We'll see you next time. Thanks guys.
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