In this episode of Car Con Carne, James VanOsdol welcomes Josh Chicoine, the creative force behind Cult Canyon, to discuss the release of the debut album, Smoke Tricks. The conversation delves into the evolution of Josh's musical projects, from the raw energy of the M's and the acoustic harmonies of Cloudbirds to the collaborative and sophisticated sound of Cult Canyon.

Key Highlights:

The Making of Smoke Tricks: Josh explains how the album, initially inspired by string arrangements recorded in 2019, was brought to life through a grant from the Department of Cultural Affairs and Special Events (DCASE).
Creative Collaborations: The album features contributions from talented musicians like Alison Chesley, Susan Voelz, and Dave Max Crawford, as well as backup vocals from Melissa Busch-Wolford and Lindsay Weinberg.
DIY Spirit: Josh shares his experiences with the DIY approach to music, from producing and promoting records to filming music videos with a GoPro and a vintage VHS filter.
The Influence of Chicago: The city of Chicago serves as a backdrop for the album, with Josh reflecting on his relationship with the city and the local music scene.
Second Hand News: Josh and James discuss his involvement in the Fleetwood Mac tribute band, Second Hand News, and the transgenerational appeal of the legendary band's music.

Album Information:

Item

Details

Artist

Cult Canyon

Album Title

Smoke Tricks

Release Date

March 13, 2026

Label

Rattleback Records

Release Show

The Hideout, March 14, 2026

This episode is brought to you by Exploding House Printing. Based in Hermosa, they specialize in screen printing, embroidery, and custom merch for bands and brands. Visit explodinghouseprinting.com for a quote.

Episode Transcript (Note: Auto-generated transcript; errors are possible)

James VanOsdol: This right here is Car Con Carne. Car Con Carne is a Q101 podcast. I'm James VanOsdol. Car Con Carne is brought to you by Exploding House Printing. They’re based in Hermosa and they specialize in screen printing, embroidery, and custom merch for bands and brands. Check them out on explodinghouseprinting.com. Get a quote, see all the people, businesses, bands, and brands that they’ve worked with. Explodinghouseprinting.com.

(Theme song plays)

James VanOsdol: So, after the Golden Line EP a few years ago, Cult Canyon is set to release its debut album, Smoke Tricks, on March 13th. The album will be released on lovely vinyl via Rattleback Records and the release will be celebrated with a live show at The Hideout the following night. Josh Chicoine, whose creative resume is deep, impressive, and familiar, joins me in the car on a rainy, dreary, just kind of shitty transitional winter-into-spring night.

Josh Chicoine: Muck, winter mix.

James VanOsdol: Let’s talk about Cult Canyon. We’re here, the album’s almost out as we’re sitting here talking about it.

Josh Chicoine: It is.

James VanOsdol: A lot of us came to know you from your time with the M’s earlier this century. Have you metaphorically moved from the garage to the living room with these projects?

Josh Chicoine: It feels like I have. I mean, there was definitely a lot of garage influences happening with the M's. Certainly a DIY spirit.

James VanOsdol: That kind of raw immediacy.

Josh Chicoine: Yeah, I think we were trying to—well, it was of the time too. So this was the early 2000s, there was a lot of that stuff rolling around. And we kind of fit into that mix and just wanted to bring our own little flavor, which is heavily melodic, a lot of singing, a lot of gang vocals, which is one of my favorite things to do. And still, I guess, pop ethos, you know? Major and minor chords, nothing crazy. But yeah, we got done with that and I started a three-piece singing group called Cloudbirds and did that for about three years with a couple of guys that were in the M’s also, Joey King and Glenn Russell. And that was definitely in the living room. That was acoustic guitars, sometimes we had electric, but mostly acoustic music and three-part harmonies and very folky. And it was a real welcome relief, I’d say, to almost 10 years of loud guitars and bashing drums and shouting vocals.

James VanOsdol: You weren’t pounding kids anymore.

Josh Chicoine: We were not. We were not, and we kind of got started late anyway. So by the time 2009 rolled around, I was probably in my mid-30s, early 30s, everybody was kind of getting into their 30s. So being on the road was just awful. I think I was about ready to have my first child. And so yeah, the whole kind of idea shifted. And so we just couldn’t sustain that. So being in a singing group and just three guys, a lot easier to organize practices and singing some sweet melodies and harmonies, and that was more my style. And I kind of chased that for a little while, and then I had a new band called Sabres and I tried to do the rock thing again in 2014 and self-released that record, put a lot of time into that record. And it was another big record. And I found out I was just really tired. The DIY thing is that you have to do it yourself. So that means producing the record, promoting the record, getting all the artwork together, getting five people—now more grown people—to get together for any rehearsal, any show. I thought it was going to maybe be a bit easier, but it just wasn't. It wasn't easy, so I had to put that down.

James VanOsdol: DIY is hard. We’re doing DIY right now in a car on urban radio in 2026. I do it in my car with a couple of cheap—see how the world has shifted for us both.

Josh Chicoine: It has. I might say for the better.

James VanOsdol: One would argue or could argue that, yeah. We’re our own bosses.

Josh Chicoine: I think so. Yeah, there you go.

James VanOsdol: You’re the CEO of Cult Canyon.

Josh Chicoine: I am the CEO of Cult Canyon. I have a lot of contributors and collaborators, which I’m very thankful for.

James VanOsdol: Let’s talk about some of them. Alison Chesley is a contributor.

Josh Chicoine: She is. She is actually appearing on the latest record. To go back to the Golden Line EP in 2019, so right before COVID, I released an EP called Josh Chicoine and it was called Dream Believers. And I was imagining this trajectory where the next bunch of songs would include a string quartet. And so in 2019, early 2019, I recorded three songs including with Susan Voelz, who’s a good friend also.

James VanOsdol: She’s delightful.

Josh Chicoine: Yeah, she’s delightful, she’s an old friend, she’s a great contributor, what a great spirit. And with her and a few other string players. And then COVID came, so I sat on this thing. And I sat on this thing for quite a while because part of the DIY situation that we’re in now is that there’s so much noise and there’s so many competing avenues for attention, including your couch doing nothing. That’s a big one.

James VanOsdol: Yeah.

Josh Chicoine: Yeah, so I sat on it and I didn’t know what I was going to do. And so I applied for a grant. It was really the Department of Cultural Affairs and Special Events here in Chicago, they have an individual artist program, DCASE.

James VanOsdol: DCASE. Shout out to DCASE.

Josh Chicoine: They have a grant program every year, and I applied and I said, you know, I’m coming back into making things and this is what I want to do. I want to make a rock record in the city of Chicago using Chicago musicians out of Chicago studios. And that was really the kind of impetus to be like, okay, what do I want this Cult Canyon thing to be? And so that’s when I looked back at those Golden Line songs, which are really lush string arrangements done by our good friend Dave Max Crawford of Poi Dog Pondering and the Total Pro Horns. And he does a fantastic job. I’ve been collaborating with him since the M’s, he did a lot of those string arrangements and horn arrangements and stuff, so he’s really adept and really tasteful. And so I was just like, why not bring it into everything that I’m doing and make Cult Canyon more of a catch-all and a place where, for one, I can do what I want and I can do it with others that I want to do it with, people that I love. And yeah, Alison Chesley, I met her through Susan because playing with quartets, you end up having a large stable of artists because people are busy or they want more money than you want to give them or can give them on any given night. So I was able to meet and reach out to a bunch of string players and continually find new ones in town that can fill a role for a time. And happily, Alison is on this record on a tune called Good Bad Habits.

James VanOsdol: I love it. And the album sounds great. Now, we’re recording this right before it comes out, like I said. The album is Smoke Tricks. We’ve had—we, the public—have experienced some of it already. Real Sublime is a single. You shot a video for this one.

Josh Chicoine: I did.

James VanOsdol: Was that your house you shot it in?

Josh Chicoine: That was at my house, yeah.

James VanOsdol: Very tastefully appointed.

Josh Chicoine: Thank you. That’s all due to my wife.

James VanOsdol: You’ve got you in a convertible on the lakefront.

Josh Chicoine: That’s my buddy Al’s ‘67 Oldsmobile.

James VanOsdol: That’s badass.

Josh Chicoine: Pretty badass. We all need a buddy like Al. Al’s the best.

James VanOsdol: Convertible on the drive, clearly different time of year from when we’re recording this.

Josh Chicoine: Yeah.

James VanOsdol: And is that the lake you jumped into or did you shoot that—

Josh Chicoine: Yeah, jumped into the lake. Another good friend of mine is a Great Lake jumper, Dan O’Conor.

James VanOsdol: He’s a celebrated Great Lake jumper.

Josh Chicoine: They continually celebrate Great Lake jumper. I think he did it for five years straight every day. And yeah, so I started going out there and doing that. So it wasn’t so far afield to imagine, because what are videos now? I don’t even know what they are. But for this one, it was like, all right, Al, let’s get in a car, let’s drive around. I got this GoPro, I’ll stick it to your car, drive around, and then let’s go to the lake and let’s jump in the lake.

James VanOsdol: So it doesn’t necessarily tie back to the lyrics or the theme?

Josh Chicoine: I don’t think so. I mean, but maybe somebody sees something that I don’t. I think that’s part of my MO, at least, is to leave enough fog to allow for some interpretation. But yeah, this is more of kind of a performance, roll around, get some good footage, put a 1989 VHS filter on it and make it look cool and get it out.

James VanOsdol: And you’re a fan of film and what can be done with movies.

Josh Chicoine: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I love film, I love movies, I love music movies. For eight years I was the co-founder and director of the Chicago International Movies and Music Festival. And we were all over the place throughout the city. And we would show movies from all over the world, like 33 countries usually were represented each year. And that was just, for me, was fascinating to figure out how to build something like that that could last and to raise money for it, you know, practicing all these adult skills that being in a van in a band on tour you’re not really practicing too much.

James VanOsdol: Do you miss doing CIMMfest?

Josh Chicoine: There’s a lot of it that I do. I really miss just the people and the spirit. I mean, we had an incredible group of volunteers that would come every year and really they were the ones that were able to activate this thing. And so I loved sitting around and dreaming, I loved building marketing materials, if only because then I could have something to go and take to people that I knew and a network that I was building. And I thought it was really a cool thing for the city and it really got me in touch with a lot of old friends and made so many new friends and it kept me—this was right after the M’s, and the M’s were kind of media darlings and played a lot of shows and, you know, I knew a lot of club owners and I knew publicists and I knew all that network. So it kind of allowed me personally to stay connected to that world. And coming out of there, that’s what my kind of career goals were. I was just like, okay, I want to stay in this world, I want to stay connected to these people. So it was my friend Ilko Davidov, who’s a Bulgarian filmmaker, and it was his concept. And I was just sort of the right person that was able to come and hoodwink a bunch of people into coming on board and giving me a bunch of money and being able to try to make this thing into a sustainable institution. We never quite got there. It’s always resource-light and operations-heavy. And never quite got there, but still just some great memories and really happy and really proud of what we were able to build.

James VanOsdol: Thinking about film and music and making short music films, I’ve wondered this out loud on this podcast before, but I feel like this is a golden moment. This is the time for artists to explore that side of things. I mean, it’s not like the 1980s when I grew up, when videos were bankrolled by record labels and there were millions of dollars. Like, you grabbed a GoPro, you sit it on the dash—like, this is a real opportunity for creative expression, I think. I just don’t know if enough independent artists are taking advantage of it.

Josh Chicoine: I mean, if you look at—I’ll have to disagree, I feel like, you know, the barriers are down and people now, everybody’s got a pretty decent camera in their pocket at all times. Since the barriers are down and since everybody’s got a camera, you can do whatever you want, put it up there, and not going to say it’s good, most of it’s not, most of it’s schlock. But you at least have the opportunity to make something that’s decent and the technology affords it. You don't even need to be great at editing. You can cobble stuff together. You really can. I mean, I use a really cheap editing software.

James VanOsdol: Can I ask?

Josh Chicoine: It’s called CapCut. And the same company, I can’t remember what they’re called, the TikTok corporation, ByteDance. It’s a ByteDance product. And I got it because it was cheap and another friend of mine was using it. And he was making some cool stuff, so I was just like, all right, I’m just going to dive in and start doing stuff. And so that’s what I did.

James VanOsdol: That’s DIY. Roll up your sleeves, let’s get to it.

Josh Chicoine: Yeah, it’s just—I had spent CIMMfest was so much about favors and so much about waiting for favors from people that you were either getting a deep discount from or not paying at all. And I know the pain, you know? And it’s real. So if you have any kind of means by which you can get a hold of this stuff, then it’s just about putting the work in and, you know, time is mine to give or throw away. So, yeah, it’s just sort of—I keep getting better and better, I mean other people can be the judge of that, but I feel pretty good about what I’ve been able to do with hardly any resources.

James VanOsdol: It’s pretty cool.

Josh Chicoine: Yeah, it’s pretty cool.

James VanOsdol: All right, going back to this album Smoke Tricks again, available on March 13th. Bitter Birdies is how we begin. If you listen close, actually you don’t even need to listen that closely, there are dogs barking at the beginning of the song.

Josh Chicoine: Yeah, Ralfy.

James VanOsdol: I was going to ask.

Josh Chicoine: It’s my doggie.

James VanOsdol: And you were aware when you were recording the dog was part of it, right?

Josh Chicoine: Yeah, well, my producer, my co-producer on this was Todd Rittmann and Todd Rittmann was in US Maple. I don’t know if you remember that band. Affiliated with Cheer-Accident, of course.

James VanOsdol: Of course, always interesting.

Josh Chicoine: Yes. Now he’s in Dead Rider, for everybody out there who’s watching, check out Dead Rider. Yeah, he’s fascinating, he’s got a great little studio called Shy Diamond Studio down in Logan, just north of Fullerton. And, you know, him and I kind of cobbled this thing together. And I never expected that the piano tracks were the final. So I would just make demos at my house and then I would send them to Todd and I’d be like, “Here’s what I’m thinking for this song,” and then we would try and fit it in somehow. And he was just—he’s like a maestro. He was just like, “I love it, you’re never taking away the dog’s bark. We’re keeping it in there 100%.” So I was like, “All right, let’s go.” Piano sounded fine, sounded good, it’s my piano in my living room. I loved it, and that’s my boy Ralfy. So he’s my spirit animal and I’m glad he’s on the record too.

James VanOsdol: Good boy, Ralfy.

Josh Chicoine: He’s a very good boy.

James VanOsdol: On this song, I know you want people to interpret songs as, you know, as any artist would suggest, like you want to feel a connection, right? But you do mention “stuck here in Chicago” in that song. Were you feeling—do you feel a weird relationship with the city?

Josh Chicoine: I think I love Chicago. It’s my favorite city. It’s especially my favorite city to come back to. I don’t know if you’ve ever leave for like a little while, but when you come back, it’s just like—ah. Especially when you’re driving back home and like you catch that first glimpse of the skyline. That is a moment. It’s real. So, I mean, when I got that grant from DCASE, it was like, “Oh no, now I got to write a record.” They called your bluff. Every time for me, at least, I decide to write a record, I have to figure out how to write a record again. And that—it’s like a lot of introspection and a lot of like, “Who am I now? What am I going to write about now?” And it takes a long—it took me a long time. And Bitter Birdies kind of came about based upon that piano that opens it up. I had that piece for a long time, but sort of like lyrically I wasn’t quite sure. And my wife and I are going to be married 25 years in June.

James VanOsdol: Congratulations, that’s a big milestone.

Josh Chicoine: Thank you. It’s been wonderful. But seven years into our relationship, there was a breakup. Post-college, I mean I was dating her since I was 19. I’ve known her for a long time. So yeah, moved to Chicago, joined a band, you know, our lives were diverging. And so we broke up. And she went—she quit her job, she was like working at a financial firm downtown. I was in a band, so you can see divergence. For sure. But yeah, she quit her job, she went on walkabout in Europe for six months. And I took myself back to that time. And that time was sort of very freeing and very fun at the beginning, and then the longing just really set in and, you know, the longer my notes and messages would go to her, the shorter and shorter that they came back to me. So it appeared like she was moving on and there was something really heart-wrenching about that for me. So yeah, that song was about that. So, you know, she was having this really great experience and seeing all new things and new people and I was here stuck in Chicago. So I was living in a loft space where Salvage One is now off of Hubbard, between Wood and Wolcott. With these crazy artist people and there were raves and I was making a bunch of music. So it was just like this Kevin Bacon Quicksilver life that I was living. And I just started to really miss her, no matter what I was just like, “What if she came back here and she lived with me in this hovel and we could do this together?” And that’s sort of the kind of emotional impulse that I felt from writing that and wanting to get out of it, you know, wanting to get out of that space. So nothing against Chicago, I love Chicago, but you know there’s definitely moments where you’re just like, “Okay, get me out of here.”

James VanOsdol: Write what you know.

Josh Chicoine: That’s I think what I came back to and when I was confronted with that idea and I keep a quote book and Louise Bourgeois said that, “If you’re not writing about yourself, then it doesn’t mean anything.” And I’m parsing—I’m screwing that quote up, but I really took that to heart. So I was like, “Okay, well then I am going to write about myself and my experiences because it’s all that I have really that I could feel a connection with.” Oh, it’s okay up there. I got an ambulance. Ambulance, police car, normal stuff. Stuck in Chicago. Here we are.

James VanOsdol: Run Red Lights, which I don’t recommend. I mean, I recommend the song. Who’s doing the backup vocals on that?

Josh Chicoine: Yeah, so that’s my friend Melissa and Lindsay. Melissa Busch-Wolford and Lindsay Weinberg. And they play with me in a Fleetwood Mac tribute band called Second Hand News.

James VanOsdol: Good segue. I was going to ask about that. Because the backup vocals have a really nice texture in that song in particular.

Josh Chicoine: Thanks.

James VanOsdol: And that actually dovetails perfectly to the question about working and being part of Second Hand News because you play with those harmonies which are magical. Clearly you bring some of that back to Cult Canyon.

Josh Chicoine: Yeah, I think it for me it’s always sort of been there. You can hear it in the M’s, you can hear it if you listen to Sabres, you can hear it there too. Certainly with Cloudbirds it was very much about the harmonies. And yeah, as I started to enter into this promo world of Cult Canyon, I was just trying to like think about things that were a common thread. And harmonies, singing—that’s how I kind of come up with ideas. I just kind of start with the voice, have something on the guitar that’s fine. I’m a mediocre guitar player but it’s really about voice and vocals. And so when I started playing in Second Hand News, you know, I had never been in a band with women before. I’ve played music with women before, but not in a band. So it was sort of like, “Oh, this whole another resource that I would love to bring into this project.” And they were so game and, you know, they brought their whole selves to it and I think it really shows in the recording.

James VanOsdol: I love it. Since we’re on the topic of Fleetwood Mac, Tusk. Misunderstood classic or big awful mess?

Josh Chicoine: Can it be both? Depends on which side you’re on, yeah. I was really naive about Tusk and I had it in my record collection just from a bunch of records that somebody gave me. And I think at one point the—because there’s two record sleeves in it—they both got kind of separated. So all of a sudden I had four record sleeves separated and I was like, “Wait a minute, this is a quadruple album? This is crazy.” But it wasn’t. There’s a record sleeve that hides another record sleeve that has the record in it. That’s how much money and wasteful money that they had. Because that’s coming off Rumours. Like, they could do whatever they wanted. Lindsey Buckingham could do whatever he wanted. And he really did. He really did. And some of it, you know, it could be argued that he shouldn’t have done it, but we still play a bunch of jams off of there. The title track to me is still one of the coolest songs of the 1970s. Super cool. I mean, there’s a lot on there that are really unheralded. Think About Me is another really good one that we love to play.

James VanOsdol: Sara’s on that too, right?

Josh Chicoine: Oh God, I’m going to get killed by my bandmates. Sara’s on there, yeah, it’s on there. Let’s say yeah, when no one’s looking it up. But yeah, we play Sara all the time and it’s like seven minutes long and the audience loves it and Melissa crushes it. And yeah, those are just really fun songs to play. And the audiences are crazy. It’s like there’s 18-year-olds there.

James VanOsdol: I was going to say.

Josh Chicoine: There’s 88-year-olds there.

James VanOsdol: It’s one of those bands that is transgenerational. My daughter, who’s heading towards 21, Stevie Nicks is probably a top five artist for her. For her birthday a few years ago I took her to see Stevie Nicks at the United Center and it was this magical night for her. Like, we walked out of the United Center and she said, “I only cried three times.” I’m like, “What do you mean you cried?” “Well, you know, during Gold Dust Woman and... oh gosh, what else did she cry during? Dreams, Rhiannon, and Landslide.” Of course, classics. But I mean it is interesting how maybe millennials didn’t give a shit, but suddenly like Gen Z is full on board with Stevie Nicks.

Josh Chicoine: I take it back to that dude who was on the skateboard chugging cranberry juice and all of a sudden Dreams became something. But it just feels like it’s cyclical. It keeps coming back, those songs are just so classic. Timeless, absolutely timeless. And the recordings of them were amazing. So it just seems like they’re just not going to go away, which is great for Second Hand News. Yeah, I mean we played the Metro a couple weeks ago. That’s amazing.

James VanOsdol: That’s nuts.

Josh Chicoine: Yeah. I love it.

James VanOsdol: And to your point, like all ages get into it. That’s something you don’t get to experience necessarily in the M’s or Cult Canyon.

Josh Chicoine: It’s different. Yeah, it’s different for sure. And I think that we—I’ve been told this by a lot of audience members after the show and they’re just like glowing coming out after scream-singing at us for two hours. And they just say like, “You bring so much joy.” And I really feel that. Like, we do. I mean the band is killer. And so the band in Second Hand News, the guitar player, bassist, drummer, Mike, Mike, and Dan, they play in Cult Canyon too. So they’re the ones who are the backing band on this Cult Canyon record. So I just was just enamored with this whole group and just because we had such good times together on stage and in front of giant crowds and harmonizing and singing and playing those classic songs. So it was just kind of a natural little pivot to bring them into my songwriting and I was really happy that they did.

James VanOsdol: I love that. So Rattleback Records, easily a favorite record store of mine.

Josh Chicoine: Mm-hmm.

James VanOsdol: Releasing the album on vinyl. How important was it for you to have this as a record, as an LP?

Josh Chicoine: It was critical for me. I think one of the things—so I released the Sabres record in 2014. And it kind of, like many, many, many, many, many records out there, it just kind of gets—it’s like, “Okay, it’s out there,” and then you tell your friends and then it just doesn’t really go anywhere.

James VanOsdol: And that ambitious ordering of 500 records turns into, “Okay, we’re still sitting on 250.”

Josh Chicoine: I have a lot of CDs. Let’s put it to you that way. Hit me up if you want a CD by Sabres. I’ll just give it to you. It’s got—anyway. Yeah, so I think I was determined to at least try and make a stink with this Cult Canyon record. And I really liked it. And so one of the first things I did was I talked to my friends in the AM Slingers, who are another Rattleback band and they’re friends of mine too. And I knew that Paul over at Rattleback had put out a 7-inch of theirs. And by put out, I mean he paid for it. So he facilitated the production and then, you know, created a connection between the band and the record store. Really love that idea, you know? It’s going to be DIY anyway, it’s all about building community bit by bit by bit. So I was introduced to Paul kind of—I don’t even remember when, it’s probably a year ago now, if not more. And he was really intrigued and I sent him a bunch of songs including the Golden Line EP, which he really loved. And that just gave me a lot of confidence, and so I took this Smoke Tricks record and I was like, “I’m really looking for somebody to help me out with this.” And he was game and continues to be game.

James VanOsdol: I love that.

Josh Chicoine: It was his dream to have a boutique record store. And that happened, and then it was his dream to have a boutique little tiny record label. So that happened.

James VanOsdol: I’ve never been in that store, by the way, where it hasn’t been busy.

Josh Chicoine: Oh good.

James VanOsdol: No, I mean I love going there. Like, they’ve got one of the best, I think, mixes of new and used and their prices are very reasonable.

Josh Chicoine: I agree. I agree. Yeah, they have a lot of cool chotchkies around, good t-shirt collection. It’s like a proper record store.

James VanOsdol: And I mean if you’re one of those budget-bin divers like there’s dollar records, you’ll hurt your knees going through them, but I mean there’s occasionally gold to find in there.

Josh Chicoine: I agree. It’s everywhere.

James VanOsdol: But yeah, it’s a cool place, I mean right over there on Clark Street. And I love just that kind of brand extension for Rattleback. Like it makes so much sense.

Josh Chicoine: I love that. I love that for Paul, I love that we were able to become a part of that and we’re putting on a showcase of Rattleback Records artists May 29th at the Burlington.

James VanOsdol: Nice. Which for the record, one of the loudest rooms in Chicago.

Josh Chicoine: That’s right. We’ll do what we can, but I mean it’s hard, it’s like a lot of hard flat surfaces and they didn’t do any soundproofing or nothing. So, yeah.

James VanOsdol: That’s good. That’s part of its charm.

Josh Chicoine: It’s part of the charm. Yeah, yeah, you know what you’re getting into when you go back there. Just bring earplugs, what’s the big deal?

James VanOsdol: Just bring ear—that’s—if you bring earplugs, you’re good.

Josh Chicoine: Yeah, that’s right.

James VanOsdol: But if you go deaf, I mean who better to go deaf from?

Josh Chicoine: Yeah, that’s a badge of honor. It’s a badge of honor. I mean it’s not a good recommendation, I would say. But if you want good earplugs, just go to Sensaphonics down there on Milwaukee Avenue. Shout out. Yesterday was National Hearing Day and I got myself fitted for a new pair of earplugs.

James VanOsdol: Smart.

Josh Chicoine: And it basically—it’s no joke. No, it’s no joke if you listen to a lot of live music. It basically just turns the volume down. The clarity is still there versus sticking toilet paper in your ears or those foam things.

James VanOsdol: Exactly what they feel like. Or those like pool noodles shrunk down.

Josh Chicoine: Yeah, that’s right. They’re good if you want to sleep. If you’re like on tour and everybody else snores in your hotel room, then those are really effective.

James VanOsdol: For sure. All right, so Smoke Tricks is the album. It’s awesome. It comes out on March 13th. The Hideout is the release show on March 14th. And onward and upward. What a great record, you really did it.

Josh Chicoine: Thanks, man. I really appreciate it. That was nice talking to you. Are we done? Is this the wrap?

James VanOsdol: This is the wrap.

Josh Chicoine: All right, love it.