Today on Politics Friday, John MacDonald was joined by National’s Vanessa Weenink and Labour’s Tracey McLellan for a chat about the latest political happenings. 

The agenda today had a bit of a health skew, as they discussed whether it might be time for a user-pays approach to health and if single-patient hospital rooms are the way of the future. 

And, who do they think will be the President of the United States this time next week – and who’s Tracey’s scarecrows American connection? 

LISTEN ABOVE 

Today on Politics Friday, John MacDonald was joined by National’s Vanessa Weenink and Labour’s Tracey McLellan for a chat about the latest political happenings.&nbsp;
The agenda today had a bit of a health skew, as they discussed whether it might be time for a user-pays approach to health and if single-patient hospital rooms are the way of the future.&nbsp;
And, who do they think will be the President of the United States this time next week – and who’s Tracey’s scarecrows American connection?&nbsp;
LISTEN ABOVE&nbsp;

Every weekday join the new voice of local issues on Canterbury Mornings with John MacDonald, 9am-12pm weekdays.

It’s all about the conversation with John, as he gets right into the things that get our community talking.

If it’s news you’re after, backing John is the combined power of the Newstalk ZB and New Zealand Herald news teams. Meaning when it comes to covering breaking news – you will not beat local radio.

With two decades experience in communications based in Christchurch, John also has a deep understanding of and connections to the Christchurch and Canterbury commercial sector.

Newstalk ZB Canterbury Mornings 9am-12pm with John MacDonald on 100.1FM and iHeartRadio.

Every weekday join the new voice of local issues on Canterbury Mornings with John MacDonald, 9am-12pm weekdays. It’s all about the conversation with John, as he gets right into the things that get our community talking. If it’s news you’re after, backing John is the combined power of the Newstalk ZB and New Zealand Herald news teams. Meaning when it comes to covering breaking news – you will not beat local radio. With two decades experience in communications based in Christchurch, John also has a deep understanding of and connections to the Christchurch and Canterbury commercial sector. Newstalk ZB Canterbury Mornings 9am-12pm with John MacDonald on 100.1FM and iHeartRadio.

Every weekday join the new voice of local issues on Canterbury Mornings with John MacDonald, 9am-12pm weekdays.

It’s all about the conversation with John, as he gets right into the things that get our community talking.

Canterbury Mornings with John MacDonald

Politics Friday with Vanessa Weenink and Tracey McLellan: User-pays approach to health, single-patient rooms in hospitals, US Election

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/7784f840-c291-422a-924b-ad9000bbad71/clips/97b639b9-c983-4a65-909c-b21a0187027a/transcript

The plan to give “use of force” powers to the people running the Government’s new boot camps for young criminals is getting a bit of attention today. Or military academies as the Prime Minister was calling them this morning.

The Children’s Minister has got this idea that, if you’re involved in running a boot camp, you should have the same powers as the police and you should be allowed to use force.

The Prime Minister, though, doesn't seem to be so keen.

He’s going to stand up next week and issue a formal apology for the abuse that happened to kids in care in New Zealand over the years and he knows that giving “use of force” powers to the boot camp people could see history repeat itself.

Which raises the philosophical discussion about what these camps or academies are all about.

Or what they’re going to be about once the appropriate legislation has been passed that enables them to be set up and run as the Government wants them to run.

Because, as you’ll know, there’s a boot camp trial up and running and the Prime Minister’s been there and seems to have been impressed by what he saw.

He was talking this morning about kids helping out with landscaping and concreting work, and being busy learning about job interviews and writing CVs.

But remember that, because the relevant legislation hasn’t been passed yet, no one can be sent there or forced to go there yet. At the moment, it’s just kids who have volunteered who are doing the programme.

So, if they’ve put their hand up to be sent there, chances are they’re going to be the kids who will impress the Prime Minister because, if they want to be there, they obviously want to do something different with their lives. So, of course, they’re going to be motivated to help with stuff and want to find out what it takes to get a job.

It’s going to be a completely different story when you get kids being sent there by the courts.

And it’s at that point that the Children’s Minister wants people there who, effectively, will have the same powers as the Police and who will be able to use force to keep these kids under control.  

But I can see why the Prime Minister’s a bit antsy about that. Because the last thing he wants to do is to give the green light for something that could lead to more abuse.

But if you can’t use force at a boot camp, then how does that make it any different to the facilities we already have for young criminals?

These are the youth justice facilities that Oranga Tamariki currently runs. OT is also running the boot camps. But if the boot camps aren’t any different than what we have at the moment —in terms of discipline— then why would you bother with them?

I don’t know if the Prime Minister has been to a youth justice facility, but I have. These are the places our worst young criminals currently go to and the one I went to was pretty much like a prison. A god awful, depressing place.

But they don't work. Yes, they keep these kids locked up, but I seem to recall that the re-offending rate is about 75%. That’s what makes them so depressing. Because for a lot of these kids, they do their time in youth justice and then graduate to adult prisons.

Which is why the Government wants the boot camps.

The question is: how tough should these places be? And what powers should the people running them have?

For example: I’ve got no problem with force being used if someone is endangering themselves or endangering others.

But should they be allowed to use force if one of these kids is refusing to get out of bed?

Because, while I think “use of force” probably sounds exactly like the thing you’d expect at a boot camp for bad kids, I think it could be another abuse in care disaster waiting to happen.

The plan to give “use of force” powers to the people running the Government’s new boot camps for young criminals is getting a bit of attention today. Or military academies as the Prime Minister was calling them this morning.
The Children’s Minister has got this idea that, if you’re involved in running a boot camp, you should have the same powers as the police and you should be allowed to use force.
The Prime Minister, though, doesn't seem to be so keen.
He’s going to stand up next week and issue a formal apology for the abuse that happened to kids in care in New Zealand over the years and he knows that giving “use of force” powers to the boot camp people could see history repeat itself.
Which raises the philosophical discussion about what these camps or academies are all about.
Or what they’re going to be about once the appropriate legislation has been passed that enables them to be set up and run as the Government wants them to run.
Because, as you’ll know, there’s a boot camp trial up and running and the Prime Minister’s been there and seems to have been impressed by what he saw.
He was talking this morning about kids helping out with landscaping and concreting work, and being busy learning about job interviews and writing CVs.
But remember that, because the relevant legislation hasn’t been passed yet, no one can be sent there or forced to go there yet. At the moment, it’s just kids who have volunteered who are doing the programme.
So, if they’ve put their hand up to be sent there, chances are they’re going to be the kids who will impress the Prime Minister because, if they want to be there, they obviously want to do something different with their lives. So, of course, they’re going to be motivated to help with stuff and want to find out what it takes to get a job.
It’s going to be a completely different story when you get kids being sent there by the courts.
And it’s at that point that the Children’s Minister wants people there who, effectively, will have the same powers as the Police and who will be able to use force to keep these kids under control. &nbsp;
But I can see why the Prime Minister’s a bit antsy about that. Because the last thing he wants to do is to give the green light for something that could lead to more abuse.
But if you can’t use force at a boot camp, then how does that make it any different to the facilities we already have for young criminals?
These are the youth justice facilities that Oranga Tamariki currently runs. OT is also running the boot camps. But if the boot camps aren’t any different than what we have at the moment —in terms of discipline— then why would you bother with them?
I don’t know if the Prime Minister has been to a youth justice facility, but I have. These are the places our worst young criminals currently go to and the one I went to was pretty much like a prison. A god awful, depressing place.
But they don't work. Yes, they keep these kids locked up, but I seem to recall that the re-offending rate is about 75%. That’s what makes them so depressing. Because for a lot of these kids, they do their time in youth justice and then graduate to adult prisons.
Which is why the Government wants the boot camps.
The question is: how tough should these places be? And what powers should the people running them have?
For example: I’ve got no problem with force being used if someone is endangering themselves or endangering others.
But should they be allowed to use force if one of these kids is refusing to get out of bed?
Because, while I think “use of force” probably sounds exactly like the thing you’d expect at a boot camp for bad kids, I think it could be another abuse in care disaster waiting to happen.

John MacDonald: Boot camps must not add to our abuse shame

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/7784f840-c291-422a-924b-ad9000bbad71/clips/d08740fc-4f1f-4539-895f-b21f00014ec9/transcript

From today, the police don’t intend to respond to every mental health callout. But I don’t think we’re going to see any major difference. I’ll tell you why shortly,. And it’s based on an experience I had on Friday night.

So if you’re worried about the police saying “not our department” if you call up, as of today, about someone having a mental health issue - don’t panic.

But you know the background to this and what’s led to today’s change with the threshold for transporting mental health patients increasing; there’ll be fewer visits to mental health clinics; and police handovers to mental health staff will be shorter than what they have been.

So 11 percent. That’s a key stat. Before today, 11 percent of police work involved mental health call-outs. And, as Chris Cahill from the Police Association was saying on Newstalk ZB today, whenever the cops are called-out to one of these jobs - it can keep them away from doing other police work for hours.

He says, on average, a mental health callout keeps police tied-up for three hours - sometimes as long as five or six hours.

So Chris Cahill is pleased about these changes coming into force today. One thing he isn’t happy about, though, is that it’s being forced by the police. As he said this morning, Health NZ hasn’t come to the party itself on this one.

He says police will still turn up if people are at-risk of harming themselves or harming someone else but, if nothing changes, police will still be swamped by mental health callouts and the health system needs to “step up” and look after these people.

The reason the police get so involved is that police officers are the only people who have the power to contain people and they can be invaluable in situations where someone is mentally distressed.

Chris Cahill, though, says the experience overseas where police have pulled back from mental health callouts, he says patients have ended up getting the treatment they need sooner.

Now I don’t know about that. Because I haven’t been able to find anything to support that online today.

And remember it is Chris Cahill’s job to represent police officers who are at the coalface when it comes to mental health callouts and who know full-well how these callouts impact their ability to deal with genuine criminal activity.

Because that’s been the argument the police have made all along. That, just because someone is in a state of mental despair, it doesn’t mean they’re a criminal. Which makes perfect sense.

But, as we know, sometimes a person can be more inclined to commit criminal behaviour than they usually would because of their mental distress.

Which is why the police have, in recent years, become the default responders in situations like these.

That, if someone is a threat to either their own safety or someone else’s safety, then call the cops.

Which is the situation I found myself in on Friday. It was about 5:30pm and I was in the centre of town.

I saw this guy who looked like he was crossing the road one minute, then walking back onto the footpath, and going around in circles, then trying to cross the road again. And drivers were tooting at him and there were a couple of people watching him.

And I went up to them and said ‘is that guy ok?’. Now - one weird thing - was the number of people who seemed prepared just to watch what was going on. There were people standing on the balconies of their apartments looking down at the street. Another guy was closer to the action. And he was who I spoke to initially.

Then the guy himself - who was pretty dazed - came up towards me and I tried to have a word with him. But he wasn’t making much sense. He was wearing a bike helmet and I could see a bike nearby but he said he hadn’t fallen off. But he just wasn’t making much sense.

And he tried to walk off in the opposite direction of where his bike was. So a few young guys who were staying at the backpackers across the road and I got him to stop and have a sit down on the footpath. And I knew I had to call for help. And, at that point, I thought we were dealing potentially with someone who diabetic or something like that, so called St John’s.

I went through the rigmarole of describing what was going on and the ambo operator got me to ask the guy if he was on any medication. So I did, and he said something about “mental health” - but that was about it. So I passed that on and the operator said they’d logged the job and asked us to stay with this guy.

Not that long after that a cop car turned up. And, as soon as the cops got out, it was clear they knew what had been going on and they said that the ambo people were snowed under and they’d asked the police to deal with it.

So they had a chat with the guy, found some prescription stuff in his bag, they seemed to think that he hadn’t taken his meds and they put him in the back of the police car to take him to hospital to get checked out.

LISTENABOVE

<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 16px 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">From today, the police don’t intend to respond to every mental health callout. But I don’t think we’re going to see any major difference. I’ll tell you why shortly,. And it’s based on an experience I had on Friday night.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 16px 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;"><span style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; background-position: 0px 100%; background-repeat: repeat-x; background-image: var(--urlContextualSpellingAndGrammarErrorV2,); border-bottom: 1px solid transparent;">So if you’re worried about the police saying “not our department” if you call up, as of today, about someone having a mental health issue - don’t panic.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 16px 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">But you know the background to this and what’s led to today’s change with the threshold for transporting mental health patients increasing; there’ll be fewer visits to mental health clinics; and police handovers to mental health staff will be shorter than what they have been.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 16px 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;"><span style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; background-position: 0px 100%; background-repeat: repeat-x; background-image: var(--urlContextualSpellingAndGrammarErrorV2,); border-bottom: 1px solid transparent;">So 11 percent. That’s a key stat. Before today, 11 percent of police work involved mental health call-outs. And, as Chris Cahill from the Police Association was saying on Newstalk ZB today, whenever the cops are called-out to one of these jobs - it can keep them away from doing other police work for hours.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 16px 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">He says, on average, a mental health callout keeps police tied-up for three hours - sometimes as long as five or six hours.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 16px 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;"><span style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; background-position: 0px 100%; background-repeat: repeat-x; background-image: var(--urlContextualSpellingAndGrammarErrorV2,); border-bottom: 1px solid transparent;">So Chris Cahill is pleased about these changes coming into force today. One thing he isn’t happy about, though, is that it’s being forced by the police. As he said this morning, Health NZ hasn’t come to the party itself on this one.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 16px 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">He says police will still turn up if people are at-risk of harming themselves or harming someone else but, if nothing changes, police will still be swamped by mental health callouts and the health system needs to “step up” and look after these people.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 16px 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">The reason the police get so involved is that police officers are the only people who have the power to contain people and they can be invaluable in situations where someone is mentally distressed.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 16px 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">Chris Cahill, though, says the experience overseas where police have pulled back from mental health callouts, he says patients have ended up getting the treatment they need sooner.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 16px 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">Now I don’t know about that. Because I haven’t been able to find anything to support that online today.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 16px 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">And remember it is Chris Cahill’s job to represent police officers who are at the coalface when it comes to mental health callouts and who know full-well how these callouts impact their ability to deal with genuine criminal activity.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 16px 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">Because that’s been the argument the police have made all along. That, just because someone is in a state of mental despair, it doesn’t mean they’re a criminal. Which makes perfect sense.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 16px 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">But, as we know, sometimes a person can be more inclined to commit criminal behaviour than they usually would because of their mental distress.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 16px 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">Which is why the police have, in recent years, become the default responders in situations like these.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 16px 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">That, if someone is a threat to either their own safety or someone else’s safety, then call the cops.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 16px 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">Which is the situation I found myself in on Friday. It was about 5:30pm and I was in the centre of town.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 16px 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">I saw this guy who looked like he was crossing the road one minute, then walking back onto the footpath, and going around in circles, then trying to cross the road again. And drivers were tooting at him and there were a couple of people watching him.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 16px 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">And I went up to them and said ‘is that guy ok?’. Now - one weird thing - was the number of people who seemed prepared just to watch what was going on. There were people standing on the balconies of their apartments looking down at the street. Another guy was closer to the action. And he was who I spoke to initially.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 16px 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">Then the guy himself - who was pretty dazed - came up towards me and I tried to have a word with him. But he wasn’t making much sense. He was wearing a bike helmet and I could see a bike nearby but he said he hadn’t fallen off. But he just wasn’t making much sense.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 16px 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">And he tried to walk off in the opposite direction of where his bike was. So a few young guys who were staying at the backpackers across the road and I got him to stop and have a sit down on the footpath. And I knew I had to call for help. And, at that point, I thought we were dealing potentially with someone who diabetic or something like that, so called St John’s.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 16px 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">I went through the rigmarole of describing what was going on and the ambo operator got me to ask the guy if he was on any medication. So I did, and he said something about “mental health” - but that was about it. So I passed that on and the operator said they’d logged the job and asked us to stay with this guy.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 16px 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">Not that long after that a cop car turned up. And, as soon as the cops got out, it was clear they knew what had been going on and they said that the ambo people were snowed under and they’d asked the police to deal with it.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 16px 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;"><span style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; background-position: 0px 100%; background-repeat: repeat-x; background-image: var(--urlContextualSpellingAndGrammarErrorV2,); border-bottom: 1px solid transparent;">So they had a chat with the guy, found some prescription stuff in his bag, they seemed to think that he hadn’t taken his meds and they put him in the back of the police car to take him to hospital to get checked out.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 16px 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: transparent; color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;"><span style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; background-position: 0px 100%; background-repeat: repeat-x; background-image: var(--urlContextualSpellingAndGrammarErrorV2,); border-bottom: 1px solid transparent;">LISTEN<span style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; background-position: 0px 100%; background-repeat: repeat-x; background-image: var(--urlContextualSpellingAndGrammarErrorV2,); border-bottom: 1px solid transparent;"> ABOVE<span style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; background-position: 0px 100%; background-repeat: repeat-x; background-image: var(--urlContextualSpellingAndGrammarErrorV2,); border-bottom: 1px solid transparent;">

John MacDonald: Don't panic about the police mental health call-out changes

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/7784f840-c291-422a-924b-ad9000bbad71/clips/e588698e-340b-4e13-9007-b21e00013419/transcript

I didn’t go to university and there’s a bit of a dad joke that I trot out about that now and again. I say that I’m a student of life, in no rush to graduate.  

So maybe I’m coming at this with a biased view of the world, but I agree with this academic at the University of Canterbury who is saying today that universities have just become factories that pump out people with degrees. And he wants them to become elite institutions again.  

What’s more, he’s saying that because universities are so focused on getting people in the door and giving them a qualification, it’s meant that there are people at university who shouldn’t be.  

And how does he know that? Or why does he think that?  

It’s because of the number of students at university that, he says, are illiterate. In fact, he reckons it’s got so bad that it’s reached “a crisis level”.  

Mike Grimshaw is his name. He’s an Associate Professor of Sociology at Canterbury. And, as well as saying today that universities need to get all elite on it again, he’s also pointing the finger at the education system. Primary schools, in particular.  

Which he says are failing to create what he calls a reading and writing culture because they have become more interested in technology than education.  

This is how he’s describing it today. He’s saying that schools, and society in general, have “swallowed the technological Kool Aid without actually valuing education.”  

So that’s where his finger is pointing.  

He says many students "appear to be functionally illiterate - going on the incoherence of their written work. Compulsory writing or critical thinking courses do not seem to help as they can pass these and still regularly submit incoherent work.”   

So I get what he’s saying about the school system failing kids so that, by the time they reach university, their reading and writing isn’t what it should be.  

But I’m also going to point the finger at employers, because the fact that people have to have a university degree just to get a foot in the door at a lot of outfits is something I’ve been hot on for a long time. I think it’s crazy.  

And it’s not just because I didn’t go to university, it’s not just because I learned how to be a journalist on the job at a local newspaper.  

It’s because a university degree doesn’t make someone better suited for a job.  

If someone’s a real nosey type, who won’t take “no” for an answer and who isn’t scared to knock on someone’s door to see if they want to talk, but doesn't have piece of paper from a university, they will be a way better journalist than someone who went to university, got a degree but is too scared to talk to people.  

I’m sure you can think of jobs or professions where natural inclination or natural skill way outshines the benefit of a university degree. But, for some reason, a lot of employers these days don’t want to know you if you haven’t got a qualification.  

When it comes to university, my view is that there should only be two reasons for someone to go. The first is if you absolutely have to because of the career you want - so that’s things like law, engineering, medicine.  

The other reason is if you really want to. And that’s probably the key bit here, because, if you really want to go to university, chances are you’re not going to be illiterate.  

Universities these days are full of people who don’t really want to be at university but they think they have to if they want to get a job, and they’ll be the ones who Mike Grimshaw at UC is talking about today.   

And that’s why employers have to take some of the blame here. Employers who know full well that someone could do the job for them just as well —with or without a university degree— but, for some reason, they’re only interested in talking to the people with the degree and the framed photo on the wall.   

I didn’t go to university and there’s a bit of a dad joke that I trot out about that now and again. I say that I’m a student of life, in no rush to graduate. &nbsp;
So maybe I’m coming at this with a biased view of the world, but I agree with this academic at the University of Canterbury who is saying today that universities have just become factories that pump out people with degrees. And he wants them to become elite institutions again. &nbsp;
What’s more, he’s saying that because universities are so focused on getting people in the door and giving them a qualification, it’s meant that there are people at university who shouldn’t be. &nbsp;
And how does he know that? Or why does he think that? &nbsp;
It’s because of the number of students at university that, he says, are illiterate. In fact, he reckons it’s got so bad that it’s reached “a crisis level”. &nbsp;
Mike Grimshaw is his name. He’s an Associate Professor of Sociology at Canterbury. And, as well as saying today that universities need to get all elite on it again, he’s also pointing the finger at the education system. Primary schools, in particular. &nbsp;
Which he says are failing to create what he calls a reading and writing culture because they have become more interested in technology than education. &nbsp;
This is how he’s describing it today. He’s saying that schools, and society in general, have “swallowed the technological Kool Aid without actually valuing education.” &nbsp;
So that’s where his finger is pointing. &nbsp;
He says many students "appear to be functionally illiterate - going on the incoherence of their written work. Compulsory writing or critical thinking courses do not seem to help as they can pass these and still regularly submit incoherent work.” &nbsp;&nbsp;
So I get what he’s saying about the school system failing kids so that, by the time they reach university, their reading and writing isn’t what it should be. &nbsp;
But I’m also going to point the finger at employers, because the fact that people have to have a university degree just to get a foot in the door at a lot of outfits is something I’ve been hot on for a long time. I think it’s crazy. &nbsp;
And it’s not just because I didn’t go to university, it’s not just because I learned how to be a journalist on the job at a local newspaper. &nbsp;
It’s because a university degree doesn’t make someone better suited for a job. &nbsp;
If someone’s a real nosey type, who won’t take “no” for an answer and who isn’t scared to knock on someone’s door to see if they want to talk, but doesn't have piece of paper from a university, they will be a way better journalist than someone who went to university, got a degree but is too scared to talk to people. &nbsp;
I’m sure you can think of jobs or professions where natural inclination or natural skill way outshines the benefit of a university degree. But, for some reason, a lot of employers these days don’t want to know you if you haven’t got a qualification. &nbsp;
When it comes to university, my view is that there should only be two reasons for someone to go. The first is if you absolutely have to because of the career you want - so that’s things like law, engineering, medicine. &nbsp;
The other reason is if you really want to. And that’s probably the key bit here, because, if you really want to go to university, chances are you’re not going to be illiterate. &nbsp;
Universities these days are full of people who don’t really want to be at university but they think they have to if they want to get a job, and they’ll be the ones who Mike Grimshaw at UC is talking about today. &nbsp;&nbsp;
And that’s why employers have to take some of the blame here. Employers who know full well that someone could do the job for them just as well —with or without a university degree— but, for some reason, they’re only interested in talking to the people with the degree and the framed photo on the wall. &nbsp;&nbsp;

John MacDonald: We need to ditch this obsession with uni degrees

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/7784f840-c291-422a-924b-ad9000bbad71/clips/77d27c2e-37c3-4e95-9504-b21b000f8ba5/transcript

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