You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald from Newstalk ZB. I have.

You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald from Newstalk ZB. I have.

Always and always will be a huge fan of on the job training, which is why I think it's brilliant that we've got an education expert saying today that the apprenticeship scheme or the system needs an overhaul. And not only that he wants to see schools doing more and is suggesting they could offer a trades preparation qualification to create a pipeline of new apprentices but also, and I think this is more important to remove the stigma that an apprenticeship is second fiddle to a university degree. Now, Michael Johnston is the person speaking out today, is involved with the New Zealand Initiative think tank, and here's how he sums up the situation.

Always and always will be a huge fan of on the job training, which is why I think it's brilliant that we've got an education expert saying today that the apprenticeship scheme or the system needs an overhaul. And not only that he wants to see schools doing more and is suggesting they could offer a trades preparation qualification to create a pipeline of new apprentices but also, and I think this is more important to remove the stigma that an apprenticeship is second fiddle to a university degree. Now, Michael Johnston is the person speaking out today, is involved with the New Zealand Initiative think tank, and here's how he sums up the situation.

At the moment, university education has much higher status in New Zealand than apprentice ship training. That can trust really strongly with countries like Germany, which has half of its young people leaving school going straight into apprenticeships. We need to do much.

At the moment, university education has much higher status in New Zealand than apprentice ship training. That can trust really strongly with countries like Germany, which has half of its young people leaving school going straight into apprenticeships. We need to do much.

More at various levels of the system to bring together apprenticeship training into a coherent system so that young people are aware of its existence and also see it as a high status option.

More at various levels of the system to bring together apprenticeship training into a coherent system so that young people are aware of its existence and also see it as a high status option.

Aman to that. The way they're just on that, the way they do things in Germany sounds brilliant in it fifty percent of the kids living school going into apprenticeships. So Michael Johnston, that's the chat there. He's heard there. He's saying that part of the problem is that trades historically have been seen or have been promoted as the thing kids do. If they're not bright enough to go to university, you're not interested in going to university, which is crazy, crazy for a number of reasons, a whole lot of reasons. I mean for starters. I marvel all the time at what trades people know and what they can do, which is why Michael Johnson says that we need schools, the trades, and the training organizations to be better connected so that some of these big brains end up doing the jobs they're best suited for and not being forced to university. He says maybe we also might need some sort of bonding system that would keep or require trades people once to finish their apprenticeship to stick around and not take off somewhere else. He says that would probably encourage more employers to take someone on in the first place. He might have a point there, but I suspect that businesses look at apprentices and just see the extra work from day one. They're not thinking three years ahead. I just don't think they're necessarily concerned whether the apprentice is going to stick around or not once they've got their qualification. But the idea of his that I really like is this bit where he says schools need to up their game when it comes to promoting trades and getting kids ready to move into a trade. Because I was going to say, I think, well, I don't just think. I know that over the years, schools and in particular school's careers advisors, they've pointed a lot of kids in the wrong direction, making them think that a university degree is that be all end all, haven't they. Another reason why I'm so excited at the ideas Michael Johnston is pushing today is that on the job training it's how I started my working life, so it may be unbiased. Maybe you might have heard me say before that when I left school, I wanted to be a journalist, so I did what they called a cadet ship at the local newspaper in Dunedin. And since then I have been dismayed at how so many people have been sucked in by this idea that a university degree is way better than an apprenticeship or any other form of on the job training. And of course there are some professions where people have to go to university. Law, medicine, engineering their examples, although there are different types of engineer, but you might have to go to a polytech. But I have never understood, for example, why a degree makes someone a better journalist. The other great thing about apprenticeships and versus probably not a great thing for employers, but someone can start an apprenticeship, realize they're not actually cut out for that particular trade, and move on to something else without racking up huge debt at university and then after three or four years realizing I'm not actually cut out for the thing I studied for, not really cut out to be an engineer. I'm not really cut out to be a doctor, you know, I feel faint at the side of blood. Might be a slight exaggeration. A guy who went to school with for example, he took on a plumbing apprenticeship. When he left, he realized pretty quickly it wasn't for him moved on to an electrical apprenticeship and he's flourished ever since. And the other thing about all of this is that that seems we've been saying forever that we need more apprenticeships and we need to make the trades, you know, taken a seriously, but nothing seems to have changed, and maybe so everything about it. Maybe it's because if we are really honest, maybe we've been so brainwashed over the years that you only do a trade if you're not bright enough to go to university, that we're part of the problem as well. We probably don't want to admit it. Maybe deep down some of us still believe it. I don't for a minute, but some might do. And hopefully there aren't any careers advisors who still hold on to that view, because I agree one hundred percent with this education expert saying today that the apprenticeship system leads an overhaul and that schools should be offering a trades preparation qualification to create a pipeline of new apprentices and to remove the stigma that an apprenticeship is second best to a university degree.

Aman to that. The way they're just on that, the way they do things in Germany sounds brilliant in it fifty percent of the kids living school going into apprenticeships. So Michael Johnston, that's the chat there. He's heard there. He's saying that part of the problem is that trades historically have been seen or have been promoted as the thing kids do. If they're not bright enough to go to university, you're not interested in going to university, which is crazy, crazy for a number of reasons, a whole lot of reasons. I mean for starters. I marvel all the time at what trades people know and what they can do, which is why Michael Johnson says that we need schools, the trades, and the training organizations to be better connected so that some of these big brains end up doing the jobs they're best suited for and not being forced to university. He says maybe we also might need some sort of bonding system that would keep or require trades people once to finish their apprenticeship to stick around and not take off somewhere else. He says that would probably encourage more employers to take someone on in the first place. He might have a point there, but I suspect that businesses look at apprentices and just see the extra work from day one. They're not thinking three years ahead. I just don't think they're necessarily concerned whether the apprentice is going to stick around or not once they've got their qualification. But the idea of his that I really like is this bit where he says schools need to up their game when it comes to promoting trades and getting kids ready to move into a trade. Because I was going to say, I think, well, I don't just think. I know that over the years, schools and in particular school's careers advisors, they've pointed a lot of kids in the wrong direction, making them think that a university degree is that be all end all, haven't they. Another reason why I'm so excited at the ideas Michael Johnston is pushing today is that on the job training it's how I started my working life, so it may be unbiased. Maybe you might have heard me say before that when I left school, I wanted to be a journalist, so I did what they called a cadet ship at the local newspaper in Dunedin. And since then I have been dismayed at how so many people have been sucked in by this idea that a university degree is way better than an apprenticeship or any other form of on the job training. And of course there are some professions where people have to go to university. Law, medicine, engineering their examples, although there are different types of engineer, but you might have to go to a polytech. But I have never understood, for example, why a degree makes someone a better journalist. The other great thing about apprenticeships and versus probably not a great thing for employers, but someone can start an apprenticeship, realize they're not actually cut out for that particular trade, and move on to something else without racking up huge debt at university and then after three or four years realizing I'm not actually cut out for the thing I studied for, not really cut out to be an engineer. I'm not really cut out to be a doctor, you know, I feel faint at the side of blood. Might be a slight exaggeration. A guy who went to school with for example, he took on a plumbing apprenticeship. When he left, he realized pretty quickly it wasn't for him moved on to an electrical apprenticeship and he's flourished ever since. And the other thing about all of this is that that seems we've been saying forever that we need more apprenticeships and we need to make the trades, you know, taken a seriously, but nothing seems to have changed, and maybe so everything about it. Maybe it's because if we are really honest, maybe we've been so brainwashed over the years that you only do a trade if you're not bright enough to go to university, that we're part of the problem as well. We probably don't want to admit it. Maybe deep down some of us still believe it. I don't for a minute, but some might do. And hopefully there aren't any careers advisors who still hold on to that view, because I agree one hundred percent with this education expert saying today that the apprenticeship system leads an overhaul and that schools should be offering a trades preparation qualification to create a pipeline of new apprentices and to remove the stigma that an apprenticeship is second best to a university degree.

For more from Caterbory Mornings with John McDonald, listen live to news talks It'd be christ Church from nine am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio

For more from Caterbory Mornings with John McDonald, listen live to news talks It'd be christ Church from nine am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio