Hey, everyone, Welcome to the Foundations podcast. I'm your host Tony Peterson, and today I'm talking to meat Eater's very own Max Barta about the obligation we have to our dogs to try to develop them in the best way possible. So this is a fun one today. I actually met Max through meat Eater here. He's been a videographer with us for a couple of years. Super good guy. We filmed some deer hunts together and I found out pretty quickly that Max is crazy passionate about bird dogs and he has an awesome dog, Ruby, who not only did he train himself, but it's his first real bird dog and she's an amazing dog. So I wanted to kind of get his process on how did he get the dog, how do you learn to train, and how did he how did he go about developing this dog to be so special, which is what we cover in pretty deep detail, go into steadiness, recall, just different methods and just a lot of really good, useful information here from somebody who's young but went through the process the right way. So I think there's a ton to learn here and I think you're gonna really like it. Max Barta, how are you today, Buddy.

Hey, everyone, Welcome to the Foundations podcast. I'm your host Tony Peterson, and today I'm talking to meat Eater's very own Max Barta about the obligation we have to our dogs to try to develop them in the best way possible. So this is a fun one today. I actually met Max through meat Eater here. He's been a videographer with us for a couple of years. Super good guy. We filmed some deer hunts together and I found out pretty quickly that Max is crazy passionate about bird dogs and he has an awesome dog, Ruby, who not only did he train himself, but it's his first real bird dog and she's an amazing dog. So I wanted to kind of get his process on how did he get the dog, how do you learn to train, and how did he how did he go about developing this dog to be so special, which is what we cover in pretty deep detail, go into steadiness, recall, just different methods and just a lot of really good, useful information here from somebody who's young but went through the process the right way. So I think there's a ton to learn here and I think you're gonna really like it. Max Barta, how are you today, Buddy.

Tony psha, I'm doing well?

Tony psha, I'm doing well?

Are you good? For the listeners? Before I get into this, Max and I go way back. We actually spent ten days together filming some hunting shows two years ago, and we got to be, I would say, the best of friends.

Are you good? For the listeners? Before I get into this, Max and I go way back. We actually spent ten days together filming some hunting shows two years ago, and we got to be, I would say, the best of friends.

Yeah, I would say.

Yeah, I would say.

So. I made you climb into a tree stand for the first time in your life in the pitch black, and what was amazing is I've never had this happen. I sent you up into the stand because the cameraman always goes in first, and I could actually hear a little bit of p dribbling down the steps because you were so scared.

So. I made you climb into a tree stand for the first time in your life in the pitch black, and what was amazing is I've never had this happen. I sent you up into the stand because the cameraman always goes in first, and I could actually hear a little bit of p dribbling down the steps because you were so scared.

Yes, do you remember that that did not happen? But sure, and I had.

Yes, do you remember that that did not happen? But sure, and I had.

To give you some wipes when we got up there, and that was really awkward.

To give you some wipes when we got up there, and that was really awkward.

No, that did not happen.

No, that did not happen.

But that did not happen. We actually had great hunts hunted with my daughter. Got to watch her. She was a spike. She was super happy I shot a deer. But that's not what I want to talk to you about. You have you know, we have this big initiative going on at meat Eaither where we're finally taking dogs. Seriously, I know we've had this foundation's podcast. I know, right, this is what they hired me for like four years ago. And Steve Ranella was like, we talk about cats, we don't talk about dogs. And finally I went over as head to the CEO and here we are, but out of everyone in this office, and there are dogs in this office constantly. We're out in Bozeman right now, out of everyone here. I mean, people know callan snort. But you and Ruby have showed up in a lot of different hunts, a lot of hunts with Steve. She's an amazing dog, and that's what I wanted to talk to you about. You're a young fella, but that dog is such a sweetheart, legit, and I just wanted to go through a little bit about your process of how you got her and you trained her yourself, which is where I really want to go with this because when you see I think when a lot of people see a dog like her, they would assume, you know, especially a guy in the industry, that you ship that dog off, had somebody else do all the work. You brought it back, followed the rules, and there you go. A great dog, but you did it all yourself. And we're going to get into that, But I want to go back to the beginning. Have you always had dogs?

But that did not happen. We actually had great hunts hunted with my daughter. Got to watch her. She was a spike. She was super happy I shot a deer. But that's not what I want to talk to you about. You have you know, we have this big initiative going on at meat Eaither where we're finally taking dogs. Seriously, I know we've had this foundation's podcast. I know, right, this is what they hired me for like four years ago. And Steve Ranella was like, we talk about cats, we don't talk about dogs. And finally I went over as head to the CEO and here we are, but out of everyone in this office, and there are dogs in this office constantly. We're out in Bozeman right now, out of everyone here. I mean, people know callan snort. But you and Ruby have showed up in a lot of different hunts, a lot of hunts with Steve. She's an amazing dog, and that's what I wanted to talk to you about. You're a young fella, but that dog is such a sweetheart, legit, and I just wanted to go through a little bit about your process of how you got her and you trained her yourself, which is where I really want to go with this because when you see I think when a lot of people see a dog like her, they would assume, you know, especially a guy in the industry, that you ship that dog off, had somebody else do all the work. You brought it back, followed the rules, and there you go. A great dog, but you did it all yourself. And we're going to get into that, But I want to go back to the beginning. Have you always had dogs?

Uh?

Uh?

Yeah, I guess. I we had a family dog. I wouldn't say it was like a true hunting dog when I was middle school high school. It was a GSP and we got it as a family dog. But then also like my dad and I kind of half ass trained it to be a hunting dog.

Yeah, I guess. I we had a family dog. I wouldn't say it was like a true hunting dog when I was middle school high school. It was a GSP and we got it as a family dog. But then also like my dad and I kind of half ass trained it to be a hunting dog.

So was the idea with this dog more to be a house dog or more to be a hunting dog. Yeah?

So was the idea with this dog more to be a house dog or more to be a hunting dog. Yeah?

I would probably say like seventy thirty seventy percent house dog thirty percent hunting dog.

I would probably say like seventy thirty seventy percent house dog thirty percent hunting dog.

Right, So if you if you're leaning that way, you have to get a hunting breed, yeah, right, but it might not be a hunting dog.

Right, So if you if you're leaning that way, you have to get a hunting breed, yeah, right, but it might not be a hunting dog.

Yes, exactly.

Yes, exactly.

So, I mean you see so many dogs out there that are like a hunt and breed, but they don't do much hunting. And like at the time when we really got them, like I couldn't drive myself, and so like I would, I couldn't take it hunting myself otherwise it would have you know, So yeah, it was like like I said, it was like seventy percent family dog, thirty percent hunting dog.

So, I mean you see so many dogs out there that are like a hunt and breed, but they don't do much hunting. And like at the time when we really got them, like I couldn't drive myself, and so like I would, I couldn't take it hunting myself otherwise it would have you know, So yeah, it was like like I said, it was like seventy percent family dog, thirty percent hunting dog.

And so did you train that dog.

And so did you train that dog.

Uh No, we shipped it off okay for like four months its first year it we brought it back and then that was it.

Uh No, we shipped it off okay for like four months its first year it we brought it back and then that was it.

No more training, no more training. Uh Who? So was it your dad's idea to get a GSP?

No more training, no more training. Uh Who? So was it your dad's idea to get a GSP?

I don't.

I don't.

I think it was like that time where it was just like, oh we saw an advertisement, it's cheap, it's a GSP.

I think it was like that time where it was just like, oh we saw an advertisement, it's cheap, it's a GSP.

We can hunt over it. Like, let's get it.

We can hunt over it. Like, let's get it.

What were you gonna hunt with it? Peasants?

What were you gonna hunt with it? Peasants?

Peasants?

Peasants?

Yeah, And so you shipped it off. It got trained to some level.

Yeah, And so you shipped it off. It got trained to some level.

To some level, and like it was just like I don't know, there was like many things wrong with him, so like what like he would like have the natural ability to point find birds.

To some level, and like it was just like I don't know, there was like many things wrong with him, so like what like he would like have the natural ability to point find birds.

And but like just lack of retrieving.

And but like just lack of retrieving.

You shoot a bird, he would go to it, look at you and be like, hey, the bird's right here, and not bring it back to you. You would go out and pick it up, and then he would go look for another one.

You shoot a bird, he would go to it, look at you and be like, hey, the bird's right here, and not bring it back to you. You would go out and pick it up, and then he would go look for another one.

So could you toss a bumper for that dog and have it bring it back or no?

So could you toss a bumper for that dog and have it bring it back or no?

A little bit, nothing too serious, so nothing like a lab you know, right, So it was just like I don't know, it was just like I said, like he could find birds and you could shoot birds over him, but you would have to find that dead bird right at the end of the day.

A little bit, nothing too serious, so nothing like a lab you know, right, So it was just like I don't know, it was just like I said, like he could find birds and you could shoot birds over him, but you would have to find that dead bird right at the end of the day.

So I mean that is a that is not an uncommon story.

So I mean that is a that is not an uncommon story.

Oh no, especially like being like a father and a son too and just want something that does.

Oh no, especially like being like a father and a son too and just want something that does.

The bear minimument is like.

The bear minimument is like.

Perfect, you know, right, But I mean I mean from the perspective of a GSP that we'll do everything but that, yeah, you know, and that's I mean, that's something we talk about a lot, and I mean you have to be a little bit careful because people get really worked up about different breeds. But it's like that's just a consideration for that breed in general. Like there are some gsps that are going to retrieve, like fiends, but there's like, like you mentioned labs, which we'll get into, but you're way less likely to just go get a lab that won't retrieve than a GSP, right, Like that's just how it goes. So you didn't put any Like you guys didn't put any real work into that. After you got it back, it.

Perfect, you know, right, But I mean I mean from the perspective of a GSP that we'll do everything but that, yeah, you know, and that's I mean, that's something we talk about a lot, and I mean you have to be a little bit careful because people get really worked up about different breeds. But it's like that's just a consideration for that breed in general. Like there are some gsps that are going to retrieve, like fiends, but there's like, like you mentioned labs, which we'll get into, but you're way less likely to just go get a lab that won't retrieve than a GSP, right, Like that's just how it goes. So you didn't put any Like you guys didn't put any real work into that. After you got it back, it.

Was like it was kind of shocking, to be honest with you, And like the only training we did was like we took it hunting and see how he performed, you know, right, that was.

Was like it was kind of shocking, to be honest with you, And like the only training we did was like we took it hunting and see how he performed, you know, right, that was.

It and he performed like a dog that was raised that way. Yeah, how did you go? So there's a there's a general progression with a lot of people right where it's like our breed loyalty comes from some exposure to something, and it's it's kind of wild because it's like, we don't look at dogs like we're gonna freaking love every one of them to death, but we do. So, you know, you get exposure to Golden Retrievers when you're ten years old because your uncle has one or whatever. That's the first dog you hunt over. Some people never deviate. They're like, I am a Golden Retriever guy till I die, you know, And I've always I went through that route with my first dog, and I ended up with black labs that I have right now, and I kind of always thought I would because of my uncle and who I hunted with growing up. He always had black labs. But it's like a very common progression for people to follow some line like that. But you didn't, So, you know, and did that dog. Did that experience with that dog point you in a different direction, or was it your level waterfall.

It and he performed like a dog that was raised that way. Yeah, how did you go? So there's a there's a general progression with a lot of people right where it's like our breed loyalty comes from some exposure to something, and it's it's kind of wild because it's like, we don't look at dogs like we're gonna freaking love every one of them to death, but we do. So, you know, you get exposure to Golden Retrievers when you're ten years old because your uncle has one or whatever. That's the first dog you hunt over. Some people never deviate. They're like, I am a Golden Retriever guy till I die, you know, And I've always I went through that route with my first dog, and I ended up with black labs that I have right now, and I kind of always thought I would because of my uncle and who I hunted with growing up. He always had black labs. But it's like a very common progression for people to follow some line like that. But you didn't, So, you know, and did that dog. Did that experience with that dog point you in a different direction, or was it your level waterfall.

Honestly, like I mean Toby, that was the GSP family dog growing up. It wasn't really like he deviated my plan as far as like what dog to get.

Honestly, like I mean Toby, that was the GSP family dog growing up. It wasn't really like he deviated my plan as far as like what dog to get.

It was just like my.

It was just like my.

Passion for waterfall hunting just took like an extreme mountain climb. Like it was just like waterfall hunting or nothing. You know what why just because like I was just like, well, so like the way I got into hunting was like my grandpa peasant hunted, so my dad Fezant hunted, so I Pezant hunting.

Passion for waterfall hunting just took like an extreme mountain climb. Like it was just like waterfall hunting or nothing. You know what why just because like I was just like, well, so like the way I got into hunting was like my grandpa peasant hunted, so my dad Fezant hunted, so I Pezant hunting.

You know. They weren't really big duck hunters.

You know. They weren't really big duck hunters.

Until like I kind of got brought up into I would say, I shouldn't say got up broad. But I had a mentor that took me duck hunting, and like I fell in love with it.

Until like I kind of got brought up into I would say, I shouldn't say got up broad. But I had a mentor that took me duck hunting, and like I fell in love with it.

Who was that?

Who was that?

His name is Joe Flatland.

His name is Joe Flatland.

What was he to you? What was he to me?

What was he to you? What was he to me?

He was honestly just a guy I pestered on Facebook to like take me hunting.

He was honestly just a guy I pestered on Facebook to like take me hunting.

And we went to the same high school.

And we went to the same high school.

He was probably like five or six years older than me, but I alway knew him and he was a great photographer and I had a passion for photography too, and like I just pestered the crap out of him to take me duck hunting, and like he killed a lot of birds too, But it was something funny. We never really ran dogs on any of those hunts when I was like really getting into waterfall.

He was probably like five or six years older than me, but I alway knew him and he was a great photographer and I had a passion for photography too, and like I just pestered the crap out of him to take me duck hunting, and like he killed a lot of birds too, But it was something funny. We never really ran dogs on any of those hunts when I was like really getting into waterfall.

So okay, lay out that scenario for me then, Like what kind of hunting are you doing with a guy who's obviously pretty hardcore who's not running dogs?

So okay, lay out that scenario for me then, Like what kind of hunting are you doing with a guy who's obviously pretty hardcore who's not running dogs?

Field hunting?

Field hunting?

Okay, yeah, a lot of cornfields, a lot of wheat fields, but yeah, just field hunting mostly, so like you don't necessarily need a dog, you know, right?

Okay, yeah, a lot of cornfields, a lot of wheat fields, but yeah, just field hunting mostly, so like you don't necessarily need a dog, you know, right?

What was that his rationale?

What was that his rationale?

Like you, I honestly don't know. We just never used dogs too much, you know. I don't know if he was wasn't exposed to it at his age growing up or what, but yeah, we just never really used dogs.

Like you, I honestly don't know. We just never used dogs too much, you know. I don't know if he was wasn't exposed to it at his age growing up or what, but yeah, we just never really used dogs.

So you grew up kind of as a pheasant hunter, yep, you know, started getting the bug a little bit. There you go get to hunt with this guy finally takes you along, which is there's a pretty good lesson there. I mean, I'm not I'm not condoning reaching out to random people, even if even acquaintances on social media and pestering them till you take them hunting or they take you hunting. But that kind of thing where you know, and this applies to dog training in a major way, Like this is this has happened to me a lot where I've been around people who really knew dog training and really knew dogs, where when you get exposure to that world, now all of a sudden, you never see it the same way again, because you know, like what's possible and what's out there, and when you see somebody who's like a master of that craft or just crazy into it, it's like, Okay, now I've now I have a different vision for how this could be for me for the rest of my life. Act So he was like that for you without the dogs.

So you grew up kind of as a pheasant hunter, yep, you know, started getting the bug a little bit. There you go get to hunt with this guy finally takes you along, which is there's a pretty good lesson there. I mean, I'm not I'm not condoning reaching out to random people, even if even acquaintances on social media and pestering them till you take them hunting or they take you hunting. But that kind of thing where you know, and this applies to dog training in a major way, Like this is this has happened to me a lot where I've been around people who really knew dog training and really knew dogs, where when you get exposure to that world, now all of a sudden, you never see it the same way again, because you know, like what's possible and what's out there, and when you see somebody who's like a master of that craft or just crazy into it, it's like, Okay, now I've now I have a different vision for how this could be for me for the rest of my life. Act So he was like that for you without the dogs.

Yeah, exactly, and like and honestly, like the whole like dog thing didn't really hit me until I dropped out of college. I actually start or did filming, and that's that was my first like big boy job. I was like filming for a Waterfall TV show and we had a dog on the TV show and that really kind of sparked my passion. I was like, yeah, I'm gonna get a lab someday.

Yeah, exactly, and like and honestly, like the whole like dog thing didn't really hit me until I dropped out of college. I actually start or did filming, and that's that was my first like big boy job. I was like filming for a Waterfall TV show and we had a dog on the TV show and that really kind of sparked my passion. I was like, yeah, I'm gonna get a lab someday.

When when was that? When did that whole thing?

When when was that? When did that whole thing?

Like that was when I was I wasn't even twenty one yet. I was like nineteen twenty years old when I first started filming that Waterfall show. And I did that for I don't know, about four or five years.

Like that was when I was I wasn't even twenty one yet. I was like nineteen twenty years old when I first started filming that Waterfall show. And I did that for I don't know, about four or five years.

So it was watching that dog work, Yeah, I.

So it was watching that dog work, Yeah, I.

Mean it was just like being around dogs and like seeing the bond that could happen with a man and a.

Mean it was just like being around dogs and like seeing the bond that could happen with a man and a.

Dog, right, yeah. And then like when shoot, it was like.

Dog, right, yeah. And then like when shoot, it was like.

Probably my third season, third or fourth season filming that show, and like that's when I got Ruby right.

Probably my third season, third or fourth season filming that show, and like that's when I got Ruby right.

Up, So you you got the cut the Waterfall bug hard found your way into the industry filming, which a lot of people do, and that is a gig that a lot of people dream of.

Up, So you you got the cut the Waterfall bug hard found your way into the industry filming, which a lot of people do, and that is a gig that a lot of people dream of.

Yeah, it's a really blessing and a curse honestly.

Yeah, it's a really blessing and a curse honestly.

Right, And then they get into it and they're like, oh, I'm going to be on the road for sixty days in a row now, and my days are going to be real long. And it's not a it's generally a young man's game. Oh for sure, we don't. When you when you look behind the scenes of what we do here at Meat Eater, you don't see a lot of gray hair behind the camera. Yeah, so you you get that exposure and you decide it's lab time. How'd you find Ruby? Did you find a litter?

Right, And then they get into it and they're like, oh, I'm going to be on the road for sixty days in a row now, and my days are going to be real long. And it's not a it's generally a young man's game. Oh for sure, we don't. When you when you look behind the scenes of what we do here at Meat Eater, you don't see a lot of gray hair behind the camera. Yeah, so you you get that exposure and you decide it's lab time. How'd you find Ruby? Did you find a litter?

Just like being in the industry, I knew this one guy. This is one gentleman that did some litters on the side and just always stayed in touch.

Just like being in the industry, I knew this one guy. This is one gentleman that did some litters on the side and just always stayed in touch.

And he kind of passed me. He's like, hey, when you're you gonna get a dog? When are you going to a dog?

And he kind of passed me. He's like, hey, when you're you gonna get a dog? When are you going to a dog?

And then like he had this one litter and I wasn't planning on getting a dog and he goes, hey, Max, listen to me, you should get this dog. And I trusted him and he's I was really passionate about this litter and he thought this letter could do great things. And yeah, basically I was like, okay.

And then like he had this one litter and I wasn't planning on getting a dog and he goes, hey, Max, listen to me, you should get this dog. And I trusted him and he's I was really passionate about this litter and he thought this letter could do great things. And yeah, basically I was like, okay.

What what was it about that dog?

What what was it about that dog?

Just the blood Yeah, just the bloodline where it came from. He ah, well you probably know this line. The dad is Snapper, very famous in central Minnesota. Like he's had many many letters. So Ruby's a Snapper puppy, Okay, And like I didn't really understand what a Snapper puppy was until like I really saw he got going and was in the hunt test World for a little bit, and people would come up to me and was like, is that a snapper puppy? And I was like, yeah, how'd you know that? It's weird kind of thing.

Just the blood Yeah, just the bloodline where it came from. He ah, well you probably know this line. The dad is Snapper, very famous in central Minnesota. Like he's had many many letters. So Ruby's a Snapper puppy, Okay, And like I didn't really understand what a Snapper puppy was until like I really saw he got going and was in the hunt test World for a little bit, and people would come up to me and was like, is that a snapper puppy? And I was like, yeah, how'd you know that? It's weird kind of thing.

So how could they tell?

So how could they tell?

Probably just the looks, honestly, wasn't how she performed.

Probably just the looks, honestly, wasn't how she performed.

Well.

Well.

I mean she did perform really well too, but right, yeah, like like don't give me like I shouldn't say like I'm a professional in the dog Hunt test World or anything like that, but like, yeah, it's like it's weird. Like I didn't have a lot of experience, but like the people that would come up to me had boat loads more experience than I would.

I mean she did perform really well too, but right, yeah, like like don't give me like I shouldn't say like I'm a professional in the dog Hunt test World or anything like that, but like, yeah, it's like it's weird. Like I didn't have a lot of experience, but like the people that would come up to me had boat loads more experience than I would.

Right, So right, so back us up a second. Yep, you weren't really planning on getting a dog now, so you didn't have You weren't like it's got to be a yellow female. No, you were just like, at some point I will get a lab right, and it'll be probably have some good blood in it. But you it sounds like you got pretty lucky with that connection. And he was like, hey, this is the one. So you get that puppy? Was what was it eight weeks old when you got it? Was it older?

Right, So right, so back us up a second. Yep, you weren't really planning on getting a dog now, so you didn't have You weren't like it's got to be a yellow female. No, you were just like, at some point I will get a lab right, and it'll be probably have some good blood in it. But you it sounds like you got pretty lucky with that connection. And he was like, hey, this is the one. So you get that puppy? Was what was it eight weeks old when you got it? Was it older?

It was probably yeah, right around eight weeks.

It was probably yeah, right around eight weeks.

How long How long did you have to prepare for it? So when he's like, hey, you gotta get this dog, like he he convinces you that this is the one you're going to take. Where were you at, like time wise before you picked that dog up?

How long How long did you have to prepare for it? So when he's like, hey, you gotta get this dog, like he he convinces you that this is the one you're going to take. Where were you at, like time wise before you picked that dog up?

Honestly, probably a month?

Honestly, probably a month?

Okay?

Okay?

Yeah, what'd you do? Started reading?

Yeah, what'd you do? Started reading?

Started doing research, watched every single piece of content I could, and just like fully like put myself in the shoes of a new dog owner, you know, right, and like I wanted to treat this dog.

Started doing research, watched every single piece of content I could, and just like fully like put myself in the shoes of a new dog owner, you know, right, and like I wanted to treat this dog.

The best way I could.

The best way I could.

And yeah, I just really fully dove deep and learned a lot.

And yeah, I just really fully dove deep and learned a lot.

Did you feel pressure because I've I've felt this, you know, I've talked about this before on here where you know, I'm buddies with Docins, so when I need a puppy, he sources the blood for me, and I always feel like a huge added sense of pressure. Yeah, to not have a dog that sucks because of that. Did you feel that knowing like you knew you were getting something pretty good, like or you at least knew the potential was very real. Did you feel like an added sense of pressure there were you just like I just have to do right by this dog, and I want a badass dog.

Did you feel pressure because I've I've felt this, you know, I've talked about this before on here where you know, I'm buddies with Docins, so when I need a puppy, he sources the blood for me, and I always feel like a huge added sense of pressure. Yeah, to not have a dog that sucks because of that. Did you feel that knowing like you knew you were getting something pretty good, like or you at least knew the potential was very real. Did you feel like an added sense of pressure there were you just like I just have to do right by this dog, and I want a badass dog.

Not really, it was like more so just like I've been around a lot of dogs through the filming world, and I've seen great dogs, I've seen the worst dogs. I've seen it all, and like I wanted to kind of pride myself in like, hey, this dog has potential.

Not really, it was like more so just like I've been around a lot of dogs through the filming world, and I've seen great dogs, I've seen the worst dogs. I've seen it all, and like I wanted to kind of pride myself in like, hey, this dog has potential.

I don't want to let it down.

I don't want to let it down.

Like I want a good dog that's gonna make me proud, and basically just yeah, I wanted to basically just live up to that potential of that dog.

Like I want a good dog that's gonna make me proud, and basically just yeah, I wanted to basically just live up to that potential of that dog.

Right. So when you when you're in that month window where you're like, oh shit, I'm getting a dog, I gotta be I got to know something about what I'm gonna do. Is there Do you remember any like content, anything you read, anything you saw where you were like that person or that thing. I'm like, I'm taking that, like I'm going to use that. Do you remember anything specific?

Right. So when you when you're in that month window where you're like, oh shit, I'm getting a dog, I gotta be I got to know something about what I'm gonna do. Is there Do you remember any like content, anything you read, anything you saw where you were like that person or that thing. I'm like, I'm taking that, like I'm going to use that. Do you remember anything specific?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Well, a big part of like my training was Bill Hillman. Have you seen some of his videos on YouTube. They are the oldest videos and he is like, I mean he's old of age, you know, but they are the corniest videos, cheesiest videos, But they are so good, impactful of information, and like I was like basically just watching those videos very religiously and taking everything I could from them. And so, like going back to your questions about like anything specific everything, I mean, there wasn't one thing that stood out where I was like, oh, this is important. It was all important to me, you know, all from the basics of like oh, basic obedience to eclor conditioning to whistle stops.

Well, a big part of like my training was Bill Hillman. Have you seen some of his videos on YouTube. They are the oldest videos and he is like, I mean he's old of age, you know, but they are the corniest videos, cheesiest videos, But they are so good, impactful of information, and like I was like basically just watching those videos very religiously and taking everything I could from them. And so, like going back to your questions about like anything specific everything, I mean, there wasn't one thing that stood out where I was like, oh, this is important. It was all important to me, you know, all from the basics of like oh, basic obedience to eclor conditioning to whistle stops.

Everything was important.

Everything was important.

So there's a there's sort of an interesting thing out there, you know. I mean there's so much content, so much yeah, and there's so many there's like old guard trainers and new guard trainers, right, and you know a lot of the new trainers like have a chip on their shoulder and they want to prove to the world, you know, like that they can do this. And you know, every generation changes things, right, Like they if you went back three generations to go to dog trainers, people be horrified. Yeah, you know, that's that's how it goes. But there's there's something about and this is going to seem so obvious, but there's like something about those people who have had their hands on so many dogs, you know, not they don't have to necessarily be like a a peer retriever trainer, right, like just a dog tain trainer that has the decades of reps where especially when you're talking like puppy behavior and foundational stuff and some of these things like you just can't screw up gunfire, intro water, whatever, where it's like it doesn't really change. It's like man, you know, like there's like a little subtleties and stuff, but when it comes from a source like that, it's usually just like so ubiquitous. It's like across the board with puppies, and it's so important to learn.

So there's a there's sort of an interesting thing out there, you know. I mean there's so much content, so much yeah, and there's so many there's like old guard trainers and new guard trainers, right, and you know a lot of the new trainers like have a chip on their shoulder and they want to prove to the world, you know, like that they can do this. And you know, every generation changes things, right, Like they if you went back three generations to go to dog trainers, people be horrified. Yeah, you know, that's that's how it goes. But there's there's something about and this is going to seem so obvious, but there's like something about those people who have had their hands on so many dogs, you know, not they don't have to necessarily be like a a peer retriever trainer, right, like just a dog tain trainer that has the decades of reps where especially when you're talking like puppy behavior and foundational stuff and some of these things like you just can't screw up gunfire, intro water, whatever, where it's like it doesn't really change. It's like man, you know, like there's like a little subtleties and stuff, but when it comes from a source like that, it's usually just like so ubiquitous. It's like across the board with puppies, and it's so important to learn.

Yeah, And like another big thing for me was like I was always told like each dog is different, and so you can't take just one training method, right, So like the analogy I always used, like two plus two is four, but also four plus zero is four, and also three plus one is four. There's so many different ways to like navigate to accomplish one goal, and there's just different paths to get there, right, And so I was using three or four different training modules or just like training methods, and like I figured out what not only worked best for me, but also worked best for the puppy.

Yeah, And like another big thing for me was like I was always told like each dog is different, and so you can't take just one training method, right, So like the analogy I always used, like two plus two is four, but also four plus zero is four, and also three plus one is four. There's so many different ways to like navigate to accomplish one goal, and there's just different paths to get there, right, And so I was using three or four different training modules or just like training methods, and like I figured out what not only worked best for me, but also worked best for the puppy.

When you bring that puppy home and you've got it, and you're like, Okay, I've been I've been just like feverishly devouring information on this. What did you do in the first month.

When you bring that puppy home and you've got it, and you're like, Okay, I've been I've been just like feverishly devouring information on this. What did you do in the first month.

In the first month, just nothing serious, just had fun with it, let the puppy grow basic obedience, you know, just like just your all your basic stuff, and like I really didn't get too serious with anything until like that four six month range, you know, because like the basic stuff is your rock to any everything. You know, I can see stuff that I did when she was a puppy that I still do with her now, you know.

In the first month, just nothing serious, just had fun with it, let the puppy grow basic obedience, you know, just like just your all your basic stuff, and like I really didn't get too serious with anything until like that four six month range, you know, because like the basic stuff is your rock to any everything. You know, I can see stuff that I did when she was a puppy that I still do with her now, you know.

So it was the classic.

So it was the classic.

Sit place was place is huge, you know, Yeah, I mean just those two basic ones sit uh in place where the biggest things and like obviously getting the dog to know it's name too is like huge, and like that will come.

Sit place was place is huge, you know, Yeah, I mean just those two basic ones sit uh in place where the biggest things and like obviously getting the dog to know it's name too is like huge, and like that will come.

But well, and that leads to the eye contact and the basics of hand signals and all that stuff. That place training. You know, we just had Jordan Horrock on and he's really he's got his Cado boards like that, dude. Know, it's place training that I kind of I'm starting to sort of believe that like that might be the most underrated aspect of training that you can do with with not even just hunting dogs, but most dogs. Yeah, Like I've I've been messing around training some non hunting dogs for people where I live, and I just started working with this King Charles Spaniel, which is a dog that has been it's a year old and it's on its third home. And this woman asked me to help her because she's her dad found this dog, got it for her kids. She's not in a position to have this dog. But she's like, I'm not giving up on this dog, Like this is this is going to be its home in Her kids are bonded to it like it was. It just is what it is, and you know, the just talking to her, she's like, he's stubborn, tons of energy right on down the line. Started to get a little nippy with some of the people coming to her house, and in my head, I was like, oh, there's like a it's gonna be rough. It's gonna be a tough one, yeah, a challenging one. So right before I flew out here, I met her at a park and I brought a cado board. I brought a thirty foot check cord and I'm like, I'm just gonna hang with this dog and just see that dog was placed, was placing for me, and I was using treats. But still ten minutes after I got there and she was like, I cannot believe this. I'm like, you have a little working dog here that has had no structure, has had no stability.

But well, and that leads to the eye contact and the basics of hand signals and all that stuff. That place training. You know, we just had Jordan Horrock on and he's really he's got his Cado boards like that, dude. Know, it's place training that I kind of I'm starting to sort of believe that like that might be the most underrated aspect of training that you can do with with not even just hunting dogs, but most dogs. Yeah, Like I've I've been messing around training some non hunting dogs for people where I live, and I just started working with this King Charles Spaniel, which is a dog that has been it's a year old and it's on its third home. And this woman asked me to help her because she's her dad found this dog, got it for her kids. She's not in a position to have this dog. But she's like, I'm not giving up on this dog, Like this is this is going to be its home in Her kids are bonded to it like it was. It just is what it is, and you know, the just talking to her, she's like, he's stubborn, tons of energy right on down the line. Started to get a little nippy with some of the people coming to her house, and in my head, I was like, oh, there's like a it's gonna be rough. It's gonna be a tough one, yeah, a challenging one. So right before I flew out here, I met her at a park and I brought a cado board. I brought a thirty foot check cord and I'm like, I'm just gonna hang with this dog and just see that dog was placed, was placing for me, and I was using treats. But still ten minutes after I got there and she was like, I cannot believe this. I'm like, you have a little working dog here that has had no structure, has had no stability.

I had no job maybe too.

I had no job maybe too.

Write no confidence, which is a big one. And just anchoring that dog's attention with a placeboard, you could feel it like shift. I mean it know. I maybe spent an hour with that dog and I started with that just to see because I could see it would sit, like if I get its attention, it would sit and do a few basic things, so it wasn't like total blank slate. Took it for a walk, let it run around a little bit, brought it back and did place and it immediately recognized that. And I was like, you don't. I don't think you have a stubborn dog here. I think you you looked at this dog and thought it was stubborn because you doesn't do what you wanted to do, but you just you just didn't know how to ask it the right questions yet. But even just seeing the way that that dog related to that place board was such an eye opener. And you see that with you know, young dogs, if you work that that is like a can be such a positive association. It's such a signal to them that like good stuff's gonna happen and you're gonna earn it and they love that. So that's that's interesting to hear.

Write no confidence, which is a big one. And just anchoring that dog's attention with a placeboard, you could feel it like shift. I mean it know. I maybe spent an hour with that dog and I started with that just to see because I could see it would sit, like if I get its attention, it would sit and do a few basic things, so it wasn't like total blank slate. Took it for a walk, let it run around a little bit, brought it back and did place and it immediately recognized that. And I was like, you don't. I don't think you have a stubborn dog here. I think you you looked at this dog and thought it was stubborn because you doesn't do what you wanted to do, but you just you just didn't know how to ask it the right questions yet. But even just seeing the way that that dog related to that place board was such an eye opener. And you see that with you know, young dogs, if you work that that is like a can be such a positive association. It's such a signal to them that like good stuff's gonna happen and you're gonna earn it and they love that. So that's that's interesting to hear.

Yeah, And like, especially when you have a puppy, if you make training like the highlight of their day, they're gonna want to train every single day, you know, which I think is a big like making everything fun and exciting and like I said, like whatever that objective is, whether it's place training for setch just fetch, you know, make it the best thing ever for that dog.

Yeah, And like, especially when you have a puppy, if you make training like the highlight of their day, they're gonna want to train every single day, you know, which I think is a big like making everything fun and exciting and like I said, like whatever that objective is, whether it's place training for setch just fetch, you know, make it the best thing ever for that dog.

Right, And that's I mean, it's that's like we look at it and go, well, I want to train my dog because I want my dog to be good at this and this and this. But when you say that, what you're saying is I'm building that team. Yeah, that bomb and that dog wants that team like it doesn't want you just to be the boss, like it wants to work for you. And when you start that off like right off the bat and condition them to like, hey, you're going to interact with me in a way that's gonna be fun, and you're gonna get rewards and we are going to be like we are working together. It's not just me showing up and like you got to run through these drills and like, I mean, you can get a dog someplace with that. But it's if you look at it that way, like as the team aspect, and it's like you're instilling in that dog from eight weeks on that you are the source of that structure, but also that fun tied into the structure and their ability to please you or like their their opportunity. It's a game changer for the rest of their life. It literally sets them up to be better dogs and more confident dogs forever for sure. Yeah, So when you got Ruby, you weren't working at Mediator yet. You were working in the industry doing some filming and stuff. But you had no idea that you would have to train that dog to the point where you were going to take it with Steve Vanella and film in and it was gonna end up on Netflix.

Right, And that's I mean, it's that's like we look at it and go, well, I want to train my dog because I want my dog to be good at this and this and this. But when you say that, what you're saying is I'm building that team. Yeah, that bomb and that dog wants that team like it doesn't want you just to be the boss, like it wants to work for you. And when you start that off like right off the bat and condition them to like, hey, you're going to interact with me in a way that's gonna be fun, and you're gonna get rewards and we are going to be like we are working together. It's not just me showing up and like you got to run through these drills and like, I mean, you can get a dog someplace with that. But it's if you look at it that way, like as the team aspect, and it's like you're instilling in that dog from eight weeks on that you are the source of that structure, but also that fun tied into the structure and their ability to please you or like their their opportunity. It's a game changer for the rest of their life. It literally sets them up to be better dogs and more confident dogs forever for sure. Yeah, So when you got Ruby, you weren't working at Mediator yet. You were working in the industry doing some filming and stuff. But you had no idea that you would have to train that dog to the point where you were going to take it with Steve Vanella and film in and it was gonna end up on Netflix.

No, well she never ended up knowing Netflix.

No, well she never ended up knowing Netflix.

She did it.

She did it.

No, I mean we've done some stuff with Steve, like just like fun fun hunts and like some stuff on YouTube like the busting and the boys stuff right took Cowetzel country music artists out. That was pretty sweet. But yeah, no, I like never in my world did I thought I was ever gonna run that dog with as many people and as I have in like as many places as I have either.

No, I mean we've done some stuff with Steve, like just like fun fun hunts and like some stuff on YouTube like the busting and the boys stuff right took Cowetzel country music artists out. That was pretty sweet. But yeah, no, I like never in my world did I thought I was ever gonna run that dog with as many people and as I have in like as many places as I have either.

Does does it make you nervous taking that dog out with you? Know what I mean? Because this is you know, you talk about taking cod busts with the boys, like this is a weird scenario. For Like, it's probably kind of hard for people to understand that you might be come into the office and find out that next week you're hunting with three dudes you've never met for some kind of project or something, and you're running your dog and your dog is going to be like a central.

Does does it make you nervous taking that dog out with you? Know what I mean? Because this is you know, you talk about taking cod busts with the boys, like this is a weird scenario. For Like, it's probably kind of hard for people to understand that you might be come into the office and find out that next week you're hunting with three dudes you've never met for some kind of project or something, and you're running your dog and your dog is going to be like a central.

Part of that. I mean.

Part of that. I mean.

Not really, No, I wouldn't say it makes me nervous, Like I mean, my first instincts are like, is she gonna be safe?

Not really, No, I wouldn't say it makes me nervous, Like I mean, my first instincts are like, is she gonna be safe?

Are we gonna have fun?

Are we gonna have fun?

You know? Like, well, I mean that's that's part of what I mean. Yeah, yeah, I know. I mean you want your dog to perform for sure, Like when you're in that situation, you don't want your dog to you don't want the wheels to fall off. But also hunting with people you don't know with your.

You know? Like, well, I mean that's that's part of what I mean. Yeah, yeah, I know. I mean you want your dog to perform for sure, Like when you're in that situation, you don't want your dog to you don't want the wheels to fall off. But also hunting with people you don't know with your.

Dog, Yeah, that part sometimes makes me nervous for sure, right, yeah, but that all goes to like proper training, like not breaking you know, and like setting some rules with those hunters too. Is like, hey, when I send that dog, no more shooting, right, you.

Dog, Yeah, that part sometimes makes me nervous for sure, right, yeah, but that all goes to like proper training, like not breaking you know, and like setting some rules with those hunters too. Is like, hey, when I send that dog, no more shooting, right, you.

Know, does everybody follow the rules as they always have? They always followed the rules.

Know, does everybody follow the rules as they always have? They always followed the rules.

Yes, for the most part, I've never had any like big scares or close calls like that knock on wood, right, And so I'm super thankful for that. But yeah, I've like and like another big thing is like hunting with a small group of people, like everything's controlled, it's nothing too crazy. Yeah, because like once you get with those larger groups of people, that's when there's lots of gun infractions.

Yes, for the most part, I've never had any like big scares or close calls like that knock on wood, right, And so I'm super thankful for that. But yeah, I've like and like another big thing is like hunting with a small group of people, like everything's controlled, it's nothing too crazy. Yeah, because like once you get with those larger groups of people, that's when there's lots of gun infractions.

You would say, right, you know, yeah, that can be a rough situation. But that's I mean, you brought up something there that's like super important. I think, you know, if I've written about this a ton, but I think the two hardest things to train into a dog, or like at least two that are way up at the top of the list are steadiness and recall. You know, like they're so unnatural for dogs to you know, come back to you when there's something more interesting to sniff or chase or whatever. And to get a dog to sit down and wait to do what it wants to do more than anything in the world with a high stimuli environment, Like it's just tough, right, But both of those have that safety aspect. And when you talk about that, like a duck dog specifically that isn't steady, people hate that right because it's jumping out, birds are flaring whatever. It's like a it's a bad deal, but it's also a very unsafe situation. You've got that bird knocked down in the water and that dog's supposed to stay there and somebody's like, I'm gonna I'm gonna finish.

You would say, right, you know, yeah, that can be a rough situation. But that's I mean, you brought up something there that's like super important. I think, you know, if I've written about this a ton, but I think the two hardest things to train into a dog, or like at least two that are way up at the top of the list are steadiness and recall. You know, like they're so unnatural for dogs to you know, come back to you when there's something more interesting to sniff or chase or whatever. And to get a dog to sit down and wait to do what it wants to do more than anything in the world with a high stimuli environment, Like it's just tough, right, But both of those have that safety aspect. And when you talk about that, like a duck dog specifically that isn't steady, people hate that right because it's jumping out, birds are flaring whatever. It's like a it's a bad deal, but it's also a very unsafe situation. You've got that bird knocked down in the water and that dog's supposed to stay there and somebody's like, I'm gonna I'm gonna finish.

That green off for whatever if it's a cripple, you know.

That green off for whatever if it's a cripple, you know.

Right, and then your dog takes off. So there's a We sort of tend to frame that up as like a dog with really good recall or a dog with really good steadiness or both is a great dog, which is true, but it's also not just about like you having a good dog. It's about you having a dog that's going to be safe in spite of what it wants to do and in spite of what's going on around you with you know, your hunting buddies or whoever you happen to be with.

Right, and then your dog takes off. So there's a We sort of tend to frame that up as like a dog with really good recall or a dog with really good steadiness or both is a great dog, which is true, but it's also not just about like you having a good dog. It's about you having a dog that's going to be safe in spite of what it wants to do and in spite of what's going on around you with you know, your hunting buddies or whoever you happen to be with.

Yeah, no, I mean I can't stress that enough as like a steady dog is a safe dog, you know.

Yeah, no, I mean I can't stress that enough as like a steady dog is a safe dog, you know.

So how did you work that into ruby?

So how did you work that into ruby?

Oh? Just repetition, repetition.

Oh? Just repetition, repetition.

Give me an example, like a drill.

Give me an example, like a drill.

So uh, I would say, I mean the first thing that comes to mind is live pigeons, just like not even I wouldn't even say it's a drill, but like in a sense, it kind of was like I just kind of like came up with this myself. It's like just having that pigeon with its wing wings clipped and you walking around with that dog on heel, like that dog is like ready to pounce, you know, twenty four to seven, and like just like walking up slowly, walking up to that pigeon and then walking away from it, walking back to it, walk away from it.

So uh, I would say, I mean the first thing that comes to mind is live pigeons, just like not even I wouldn't even say it's a drill, but like in a sense, it kind of was like I just kind of like came up with this myself. It's like just having that pigeon with its wing wings clipped and you walking around with that dog on heel, like that dog is like ready to pounce, you know, twenty four to seven, and like just like walking up slowly, walking up to that pigeon and then walking away from it, walking back to it, walk away from it.

And like even just like another like kennel thing too.

And like even just like another like kennel thing too.

You have that dog place or like in kennel and then you're walking around kicking up this pigeon and it's bouncing left to right all over the place and like that dog is in its kennel around place the whole time and does not leave until your release commands or anything like that. So yeah, I don't even know if that's not either.

You have that dog place or like in kennel and then you're walking around kicking up this pigeon and it's bouncing left to right all over the place and like that dog is in its kennel around place the whole time and does not leave until your release commands or anything like that. So yeah, I don't even know if that's not either.

I mean, well that's like advanced levels. Yeah right, I mean, I mean most people would be really happy if they could heal their dog or place their dog, chuck a bumper and wait thirty seconds before that dog took off.

I mean, well that's like advanced levels. Yeah right, I mean, I mean most people would be really happy if they could heal their dog or place their dog, chuck a bumper and wait thirty seconds before that dog took off.

For sure.

For sure.

But yeah, I guess like at a basic level, that starts from when that dog's a puppy.

But yeah, I guess like at a basic level, that starts from when that dog's a puppy.

You have it sit, you put.

You have it sit, you put.

Food down in front of it, you release it by name, You wait five seconds, ten seconds, five minutes. You just build up that those building blocks, yep, and then you can transfer that into the just regular fetch too, just with a bumper. Have that dog at heel, sit and put position, throw that bumper and you wait and the yeah forever how long? Like I said, the same thing with the food five seconds, ten seconds.

Food down in front of it, you release it by name, You wait five seconds, ten seconds, five minutes. You just build up that those building blocks, yep, and then you can transfer that into the just regular fetch too, just with a bumper. Have that dog at heel, sit and put position, throw that bumper and you wait and the yeah forever how long? Like I said, the same thing with the food five seconds, ten seconds.

And that starts early early, So this is that's that's what I was hopeing you would say, there's like an sorry I jumped in, No, No, that's all right. Uh, there's like an escalatory feature built into good dog training, where that making a dog wait to eat when it's a puppy for three seconds or five seconds is the foundation of steadiness. And you know if you skip that, you're you have more difficult work to do later that might not stick the same way you'd want it to. So you do that, and then it's five seconds, then it's ten seconds, and then you start working on that retrieving design or that retrieving drive and working on those and it's like, Okay, now you got to wait three seconds to get that bumper, and it's that dog's conditioned to that, Like the reward's going to come, I just have to earn it exactly. And then you get to the point where you're like, Okay, I'm gonna do big distraction training like with a live pigeon, which is a like a huge, hugely difficult thing for them to do.

And that starts early early, So this is that's that's what I was hopeing you would say, there's like an sorry I jumped in, No, No, that's all right. Uh, there's like an escalatory feature built into good dog training, where that making a dog wait to eat when it's a puppy for three seconds or five seconds is the foundation of steadiness. And you know if you skip that, you're you have more difficult work to do later that might not stick the same way you'd want it to. So you do that, and then it's five seconds, then it's ten seconds, and then you start working on that retrieving design or that retrieving drive and working on those and it's like, Okay, now you got to wait three seconds to get that bumper, and it's that dog's conditioned to that, Like the reward's going to come, I just have to earn it exactly. And then you get to the point where you're like, Okay, I'm gonna do big distraction training like with a live pigeon, which is a like a huge, hugely difficult thing for them to do.

As you get a cripple doctor, right, I always like, I always say that's like if you took like a fifteen year old boy and you're like, you're going to learn algebra, but you're going to learn it in.

As you get a cripple doctor, right, I always like, I always say that's like if you took like a fifteen year old boy and you're like, you're going to learn algebra, but you're going to learn it in.

A strip club. They'd be like, this is really hard environment for me to focus in, you know, But maybe that's a bad analogy a little. But when you think about how how people screw up training that, like because that's a that that skill is a long game thing, that behavior is a long game thing that will will test them. Like when you you could do that with the pigeons and get a dog to that point where it's so rock solid and take it on its first duck hunt and it's going to break. Yeah, because now you've changed the rules and now you're like, here is we're at the top of the mountain, buddy, and it's like they're just going to do it.

A strip club. They'd be like, this is really hard environment for me to focus in, you know, But maybe that's a bad analogy a little. But when you think about how how people screw up training that, like because that's a that that skill is a long game thing, that behavior is a long game thing that will will test them. Like when you you could do that with the pigeons and get a dog to that point where it's so rock solid and take it on its first duck hunt and it's going to break. Yeah, because now you've changed the rules and now you're like, here is we're at the top of the mountain, buddy, and it's like they're just going to do it.

Yeah, it's not is that dog going to break? It's when right?

Yeah, it's not is that dog going to break? It's when right?

You know, right, But that's a that's another thing to look at. So you build in all these layers and you're like, that is important to me because that's a good duck dog. That's a good dog, but it's also a safe duck dog. But you get to that point and you go, I can see into the future and I know when this dog's gonna screw up, right, Like when that distraction comes, Like you can see this. I saw this yesterday. We were filming some stuff you did too, where if there's another dog out there working and it's visible that changes the entire dynamic, especially if you're working with a young dog. Even if there's that other dog's three hundred yards away chasing a frisbee. That's a big attention poll yep. You know. And so when you think about that where you're going out there for that first duck hunt with Ruby and you're like, man, I know what's coming. I mean, oftentimes the best thing to do is be like I'm going to be the dog handler and I have somebody else who's gonna shoot the woodies or whatever, because I know what we're dealing with, and I want to be on top of this the break in the behavior chain right now, because I can see it coming.

You know, right, But that's a that's another thing to look at. So you build in all these layers and you're like, that is important to me because that's a good duck dog. That's a good dog, but it's also a safe duck dog. But you get to that point and you go, I can see into the future and I know when this dog's gonna screw up, right, Like when that distraction comes, Like you can see this. I saw this yesterday. We were filming some stuff you did too, where if there's another dog out there working and it's visible that changes the entire dynamic, especially if you're working with a young dog. Even if there's that other dog's three hundred yards away chasing a frisbee. That's a big attention poll yep. You know. And so when you think about that where you're going out there for that first duck hunt with Ruby and you're like, man, I know what's coming. I mean, oftentimes the best thing to do is be like I'm going to be the dog handler and I have somebody else who's gonna shoot the woodies or whatever, because I know what we're dealing with, and I want to be on top of this the break in the behavior chain right now, because I can see it coming.

Yeah, And like that was another big thing too, is like when we started actually going on hunts, there was those first couple of hunts, was it was not possible to have a shotgun in the blind when like I was like worrying about her the whole time, Like you either had to handle the dog or simply just not like having a shotgun there. Like you can't have two priorities. You know, the birds weren't a priority. It was the dog was a priority, you know. And so like the best thing was like just not even bringing a shotgun on those first couple of hunts. You know, it's just working that dog, working that dog.

Yeah, And like that was another big thing too, is like when we started actually going on hunts, there was those first couple of hunts, was it was not possible to have a shotgun in the blind when like I was like worrying about her the whole time, Like you either had to handle the dog or simply just not like having a shotgun there. Like you can't have two priorities. You know, the birds weren't a priority. It was the dog was a priority, you know. And so like the best thing was like just not even bringing a shotgun on those first couple of hunts. You know, it's just working that dog, working that dog.

Yep. Well, and that's a like I was. I was actually talking to Lake Pickel this morning about starting you know, he runs labs. He lives down south in Mississippi, and we were talking about starting our dogs. You know, if you get a spring pup, starting them on doves, you know, there's usually the first person you can go after, or they can be highly scoutable. Uh, you know, you can set up on a dead tree next to a cattle tank and at least shoot some out of the tree. If you can't shoot or whatever, Like, you can get your dog a bird, right, And in my world, a lot of times that's either doves or it's woodcock because they're the first kind of small bird opportunity that's really good. But when you do, when you when you pay attention to those opportunities, then you have those chances to like again, sort of take smaller steps with your dog, right and recognize like it's not a it's a different thing to load up you know, the duck boat and have all your decoys, and it's like we got to get to the landing at two o'clock cause we've got to beat everybody to the point whatever, versus being like, we can wear you know, our T shirt, yeah right, and a handful of shells in your pocket with somebody else and go to those scouted doves, work a couple birds for fifteen twenty minutes, try to get that one good positive thing going and then leave or the was you know the wood ducks that you know are coming into the pond or the creek bed every day, and it's like, you're not gonna get that. You don't want to start on that big production hunt because you know those things are gonna go wrong and you would rather have that mostly be a training experience versus being like a hunt for yourself for sure. So you find somebody you trust who can run the gun, and you're like, okay, now that's a short window, but of like a really important one for you to be like, I'm gonna tap down my ego and my desire to kill something and I'm gonna let somebody else do it. Well, I walk my dog through this part, because once we do this, like the next STEP's a bigger one. But when this one's in place, it's a really good one to have, and if you skip it again, you're in trouble.

Yep. Well, and that's a like I was. I was actually talking to Lake Pickel this morning about starting you know, he runs labs. He lives down south in Mississippi, and we were talking about starting our dogs. You know, if you get a spring pup, starting them on doves, you know, there's usually the first person you can go after, or they can be highly scoutable. Uh, you know, you can set up on a dead tree next to a cattle tank and at least shoot some out of the tree. If you can't shoot or whatever, Like, you can get your dog a bird, right, And in my world, a lot of times that's either doves or it's woodcock because they're the first kind of small bird opportunity that's really good. But when you do, when you when you pay attention to those opportunities, then you have those chances to like again, sort of take smaller steps with your dog, right and recognize like it's not a it's a different thing to load up you know, the duck boat and have all your decoys, and it's like we got to get to the landing at two o'clock cause we've got to beat everybody to the point whatever, versus being like, we can wear you know, our T shirt, yeah right, and a handful of shells in your pocket with somebody else and go to those scouted doves, work a couple birds for fifteen twenty minutes, try to get that one good positive thing going and then leave or the was you know the wood ducks that you know are coming into the pond or the creek bed every day, and it's like, you're not gonna get that. You don't want to start on that big production hunt because you know those things are gonna go wrong and you would rather have that mostly be a training experience versus being like a hunt for yourself for sure. So you find somebody you trust who can run the gun, and you're like, okay, now that's a short window, but of like a really important one for you to be like, I'm gonna tap down my ego and my desire to kill something and I'm gonna let somebody else do it. Well, I walk my dog through this part, because once we do this, like the next STEP's a bigger one. But when this one's in place, it's a really good one to have, and if you skip it again, you're in trouble.

Yeah, And like Ruby's first hunt was a dove hunt out here, and yeah, I think we I mean we had a lot of shooting, but like I didn't do a lot of shooting, you know, I did some after like I was like checking on her. I was like, yeah, okay, nice, easy one comes in, I'm gonna shoot, and like, but I was shooting like this the whole time, like almost just keeping a close eye on her because like if if anything happens, like as far as like she creeps or she breaks, like you got to be on that right away, yep, before she gets that bird, that reward.

Yeah, And like Ruby's first hunt was a dove hunt out here, and yeah, I think we I mean we had a lot of shooting, but like I didn't do a lot of shooting, you know, I did some after like I was like checking on her. I was like, yeah, okay, nice, easy one comes in, I'm gonna shoot, and like, but I was shooting like this the whole time, like almost just keeping a close eye on her because like if if anything happens, like as far as like she creeps or she breaks, like you got to be on that right away, yep, before she gets that bird, that reward.

You know, that's another big thing too.

You know, that's another big thing too.

Right well, and that's a lake and I were actually talking about that this morning. That's a that's the thing that happens a lot when you hunt two dogs, like not necessarily in the waterfall world, but in the upland world a lot where it's easy to sort of view it as a success if you have the young dog and an older dog out and you're killing some birds. Yeah, but what you're doing with that young dog or not doing with that young dog matters a lot, and you might be missing training opportunities, or you might be offshoring a bunch of the important learning experiences to the old dog because they know how to do it better and you can get into a little trouble there. So it's like a it's something that you have to facilitate and be aware of. And I and I think that that's like a I think we missed that a lot of times. And I think a lot of people think, well, I go to you know, my bird hunt is you know, pheasants in South Dakota for five days every year and that's what we do. The rest of the time, my dog just trains and it's a house dog. Or I love to hunt X, Y and Z, and that's all I do. And it's like, man, when you have that dog that you're developing and all of these behaviors that you want to stick for the rest of that dog's life, you know, maybe don't be above woodcock like or not. I should even you know, yeah, I shouldn't even say it that way, Like maybe consider every opportunity you have, like I know.