Call It What It IsJess is fangirling out in the biggest way because Mel Robbins is in the house!
Camilla asks Mel to break down her "Let Them" theory as Jess works through her recovering phase as a people pleaser.
Call It What It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camille Luddington, an iHeartRadio podcast.
Well, hello, hello, Hello, hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Call It What It Is.
We have a very special guest today. Do you notice anything different about me as we prepared for this episode?
I did.
I have never noticed you sweating over guests before, and you're a little sweaty today.
Glistening you mean a little bit disgusting.
Glistening in my armpits as opposed to my face.
For everyone listening, you have been talking about this theory and this person on this podcast for a long time.
Now I have, I have. We're talking about the one and only mel mel Robins.
Welcome to the podcast.
Welcome, Welcome.
So Oprah put a huge spotlight on you right around the holidays, is what I remember. And she started talking about your new book, They'll let them theory.
I immediately went.
To order your book, buy your book, Where can I get this book? And it was not available, It wasn't out yet, and I went sneaky, sneaking to my friends who've my friends in high places who have connections, and I somehow got a digital copy like the galley is that what they call it in the business, the galley, and I got a pre I got a galley, I got a little sneak peek and I started reading it and I was so excited. And then as I'm reading it, I'm getting all the wisdom. And then because I also pre ordered it on Amazon and I get my real copy. But don't think that I stopped there. I also got it on my audible. So I am like, it's like a three way frontal attack of mel Robbins and the let Them theory. Anyways, I couldn't do it alone. I reached out to my mom and I was like, Mom, we know me. I'm a recovering people pleaser. I'm the oldest daughter in this family. I think that this theory was made for me.
Not only me. It's just a personal book for you.
Yeah, but why don't you mom read this with me?
Well, no, wonder you love the book because I wrote it with my oldest daughter. There's like first daughter energy in the book.
So yes, yeah, what I thought a lot was what a gift it was for me. But then what I also thought was what a gift if I got this when I was twenty And I think it also because again I got the pre kid, I got all the copies, and of course I sent one straight to my mom. I was like, Mom, let's do let we're read this together, and so we're reading them in tandem. And something about reading your words allowed for our journey to have no stickiness. It wasn't like either one of us was. It wasn't like I was saying, like, you're so controlling, Yeah, chapter fat did you read that part?
Yeah?
You know, And she wasn't saying it back to me. It was just free here you were saying that, yeah, And she could see herself and self report or take that inventory, and I could see myself and so it created a conversation. And so I think the multi generational quality of it as well is just like.
A little bit of a boom.
Well, thank you for saying that. There's so much I want to unpack about what you just said. But in case you're listening or watching this and you don't know what the let them theory is, it's simply the act of in a moment where you feel worried or stressed out or frustrated or pissed off, you just say let them. Whether it's about the traffic, or your mother's mood, or it's the fact that somebody that you're interested in doesn't want to be let them. And then the second part, after you've said let them, and you started detach from trying to control something that's already going on as you say let me.
And when you say let me.
What you're doing is you're reminding yourself in any situation, whether it's a situation of heartbreak, or it's a situation where you're overwhelmed, or a situation where you get fired from a job, or you get a situation where you don't get invited somewhere, a situation where your mom is really disappointed in some way.
That you're living your life and the guilt is flooding in.
When you say let me, you remind yourself that there's only three things in life you can control. It's not your mother's mood. It's not what your boss is doing. It's not traffic. It's not whether or not somebody chooses to love you back. It's not whether or not your friends invite you. The only thing you can control is what do I think about this? What am I going to do or not do? And what am I going to do in response? To the feelings that I feel. So, if guilt is rising up because your mom's disappointed, am I going to bend over backwards to try to make her not disappointed? Or am I going to act like a grown ass woman and let my mom be disappointed because she is a grown up and she's allowed to feel disappointed, She's allowed to have her experience.
Yeah.
And one of the reason, one of the ways I can love her is to actually let her feel what.
She feels without the need to fix it. And if, like you and like me, you have.
Spent your life navigating people's moods or happiness or opinions or expectations, it's exhausting and it doesn't work, And so it does.
Yes, I felt myself squarely in that spot. Ye. And I remember hearing someone say you can't set yourself on fire to keep everybody else warm, and it was like.
Right, that's true, but that's intellectual. So when somebody says you got to take off you got to put on your face back first, I'm.
Like, Okay, well, what the hell does that mean?
Yes, and what is you can't light yourself on fire to keep people warm? How do I apply that when my life is on fire.
That's what I love about this book. Yes it's how, Yes it's how.
And there's some things to think about, which is, you'll never take control of your own life until you stop trying to control everything and everyone around you. If you're exhausted, if you're tired, if you're not as happy as you'd like to be, if you don't have what you want in your life, the problem isn't you. The problem is the power you're giving to everybody else. Like you've wasted so much of your precious time and energy trying to please everyone else and meet their expectations and make sure they think a certain thing, and they're not doing this, and they're doing that, that you've exhausted yourself. And what saying let them and let me taught me is that there's a totally different way to go about your life. And the shocking thing is that when you just let people think negative thoughts, or let them have uncomfortable emotions, or let them not understand, or let them not invite you, or let them not want to be with you, you recognize that you're actually capable of facing anything because the power's not out there in managing other people. The power is in hear in how you respond to it, and we've forgotten that we have handed our power over to other people's moods, opinions, to these crazy headlines, and in doing so, we have forgotten that you have so much power if you take it back, and you're never going to feel powerful if all you're doing is just worrying about everybody else and managing everybody else and trying it and being pissed off about everybody else and stressed out by the long lines and the traffic and what people are doing it.
We're like, no, let them.
But that's what's so interesting about that, because we can describe the experience when we're pissed off, when we're annoyed, when we're all the things.
We're being human, Yes, right, we're just we're actually doing what our brains were designed to do.
Yes, what I have found your description of what to do and the three things that I can control? Yeah, and not react to respond to, which was a big thing that I learned. Also, didn't know the difference between reaction and response.
I didn't figure this out to my fifties ahead of me. But that's all human.
Okay, what you outline and these three steps makes me feel, make me feel like you were giving me some kind of permission to almost be superhuman, to get above my human experience.
Yes, not your your your your emotional experience.
Yes, and get into that that that wise adult.
Yes, like so.
I the reason why this is taken off is because it doesn't exist in a vacuum. I have made ancient wisdom a modern tool. This is stoicism, Buddhism, radical acceptance, detachment theory, all of which are philosophical, intellectual concepts or therapeutic modalities, all of which are very hard to access if you're stressed out, pissed off, overwhelmed, or heartbroken. Because when you're stressed out by life and you're overwhelmed, which everybody is right now, you're in a state of fight or flight. And so you're not going to remember the serenity pro you're not going to remember the tenets of Buddhism. You're not going to remember how to be stoic. When you literally are so worried about paying your bills, how the hell are you going to access something intellectual? And so what I love about this and why it's taken off is because a it is part of a legacy of wisdom that has been around since the history of time, and it is arriving as a gift to the world at a moment where things feel absolutely out of control for most people. And even if you're not worried about the world at large, there's somebody in your family you're worried about. You're worried about AI taking over jobs. You're worried about the economy. You're worried about like a kid that you have and how they're doing. You're worried about a girlfriend who's dating some loser. There is some aspect in your life you're worried about the sense that you're not quite sure you're happy in the relationship or what you want to do in the next chapter of your life, and so you feel overwhelmed and stressed out. And when you feel or at least me in those moments where I feel like stressed out or pissed off or frustrated, I feel out of control, and then I start to try to control everybody else, and I miss where the power is, and the power is in just saying let them, because when you say let them, you're actually recognizing every time you say let them, you're actually recognizing I can't control this, Therefore it's not worth my time and energy. And every time you say this isn't worth my time and energy, let them, let that adult be mad and not misunderstanding. Let those women gossip about me, Let these people unfollow me online, let them let them, let them, let them. When you say that, you recognize that your time and energy has worth because you're protecting it, which is so cool.
Yeah.
I mean, the reason why you're exhausted is because you're giving your power away, and you can't have power until you stop giving it away. And most of us are like, wait, I have power? How could I have power if I'm burnt out and stressed out and worried about everything and I feel like I've made too many mistakes in life. Oh, you have power, all right, you just forgot. And that's the other thing as to why this is taking off. I'm reminding you of something you know to be true.
Yeah.
But I think also handed hand, you're believing there's a lot of empowerment. The way that you are on social media, and then the way I hear you in the in the on the audible, and then how I hear your way you are empowered. I mean there's a sense that you believe in me and you and I don't know you. Of course I do, and I believe that you believe in everyone.
True.
I believe every single human being, yeah, has the ability to make their life better. I believe every single human being has possibility and potential for their life that they are not in touch with. I a thousand percent believe that because I have been in the dirt, in the hole, I have reinvented myself so many fucking times, and I understand that the only thing that's standing in between you and what you deserve and desire in life is you.
I'm not kidding about this.
Yeah, like the two biggest things that are in everybody's way because these are the things that were in my way.
I'm just going to boil it down. Number one, you are obsessed.
With what people think about you, and you actually believe that there's something you can do that could guarantee that somebody is going to think something you cannot, and so you're putting so much power in managing people's opinions, expectations, all that stuff that becomes a huge obstacle because if you think about what other people are going to do in response to what you want to do with your life, you will always hold yourself back. Like if you're constantly what are my parents going to think about that? I guess I better not move. Oh what is my boyfriend?
What is this?
What you'll you'll.
Prioritize somebody else's happiness and expectations over your own desire to do things in your life. And they didn't do that to you, You did it to yourself. So when you learn to say, let them be disappointed, let them not understand, let them like actually not approve.
There was a guy that wrote to.
Us yesterday because I am obsessed with reading people's comments because I love knowing what is actually resonating and how it's impacting people. And so there was a comment that came in yesterday that somebody posted online publicly where a guy was saying that he had read the let them Theory book and he was so grateful because he's engaged to Mary, his husband or his fiance, I guess at the time, and his father is very Irish Catholic and disapproves, and the wedding's coming up, and the dad had sent his son and his son's fiance a letter that was really awful and disapproving and calling into question whether or not God, you know, is gonna whatever. And what this guy basically said is before the let them theory, I would have come unhinged.
I would have cut him out of my life.
I would have absolutely, like just been destroyed by it. And he said, here's what I did. I said, let him, let him have his opinion, let him have his experience, let him write something that actually does hurt me, let him not understand. My father, based on his life experience, is allowed to believe what he believes. But I don't have to let that change who I am or how I'm living my life. And so when I say let him, I now create space for two things that are true. My father's opinion is bigoted and it makes me feel sad, but I can also still want to figure out how to have space to have a relationship with him. And in saying let him and literally releasing from the emotion and just being like, that's what he believes, I'm going to let him have his belief, and I'm not going to make it my job to actually try to change his belief. What I'm going to do is I'm going to let me remind myself that I get to choose what I think about myself. I get to choose what I do and don't do, and I get to choose how I'm going to respond.
And I'm not going to.
Respond by allowing this hate to make me hateful. Yeah, and so a couple days later, he wrote his father back and basically was like, I you know understand that you feel this way. We see things very differently. I'm really good with my relationship with God. I hope that you will be able to come. And that was it, and he's like, I'm free because the secret in life is when you focus on or values and who you are as a person and the things that you really want to do in your life, and that's where you put your energy, and you know you have good intention and you know where your heart is. It's so fascinating how quickly you actually don't really think much about other people at all because you know the truth.
And I've spent my life looking.
For the truth about me and other people's opinions. I've spent my whole life looking for the truth about me in other people's opinions.
Out I know, I.
Know, Okay, So they let them part of it. So, and I like this story as an example to it because I'm wondering what the emotional component of it of. Okay, so somebody hurts you, like the dad, right, yep. Because initially, when I was hearing about the theory, it almost I almost wondered if there was a part of it that was like, are you by saying let them, are you detaching emotion from that person? Are you almost numbing yourself to the to whatever this is?
So?
How is it that both things are true? In that you're you can't change that person, so you're getting that power back, but also you can still be hurt by that person.
You're turning yourself into a zombie. Okay, yeah, you're basically in that situation. It is a mentally healthy response to be hurt by somebody who says something hurtful.
Okay, yes, that's a sign that you're working.
Your body works well, right when you're hurt by something that somebody says is hurtful. What we end up doing, though, is we take those emotional experiences and then we try to change the other person so the hurt goes away. Right, You make the hurt go away by actually focusing on your response to what just happened, not by trying to change that person. Yes, and here's the other reason why. There is one thing in life you can't change. It's other people. You will never be able to change what another person thinks, believes, does, says, or feels period. And any time you try to change somebody's opinion by arguing with them, or you get judgy, or you have suggestions and they're not looking for any or you think you know better, you're not organizing motivation. You're actually creating resistance to the thing that you want.
They smell your agenda.
So of course, people only change when they're ready to change. And what's interesting about this example that I gave you is that in this example, by saying let him, my father's allowed to have his opinions. I disagree with them, but he's allowed to have them. I get to choose how I'm going to react and whether or not I give more power to it, which you do when you get angry. And I also get to choose if I'm going to keep a space open. And what happens when you allow people to have their feelings and have their opinions and you create the space, and then you focus on showing up in your life in the way.
That you want to live it.
Funny thing happens over time with that's people start to change their mind, not because you jammed it down their throat, but because they have to reconcile the fact that their opinion actually makes no sense based on how you live your life. And there are bazillion examples of this. So, for example, if you've ever quit a corporate job and gone off and done your own thing and everybody in your family doesn't get it, let them not get it, let them be worried, let them think you're an idiot, let them not understand this internet thing like whatever it is that they're saying. Because a funny thing happens the more you focus on building the new business or becoming an influencer or writing the book and you're actually doing it.
Have you ever noticed your parents, like I always told you shad Yeah.
The space actually gives them this safety to come to their own conclusion. You're actually loving them and respecting them and giving them permission to be flawed or have d up opinions or whatever else, and understanding that people do change when they actually are ready to change. And through your example and the influence that yeah, yeah, and so I feel like, and there's another thing, because your question was excellent, because one of the other things where I thought you were going to go with it is when you say let them. Let's like talk about a relationship, because we all have that. We all have somebody in our life who's in a relationship with somebody who is treating them poorly. Like you see it, You're like, he won't put a label on this, right, that means he's having sex with other people. You know, That's what I won't label. This means I want to be having sex with other people. Yes, And you're up in your head like I think, well, I think we're going to get married in Lake Clomo, And you're like, I think you're high and so but here's the thing. If you start to question your friend, what happens is you push her into the relationship.
I've had this, yep.
And so they double down.
Yes, as a double down there say let them.
And you're in a situation where a boss or a parent or somebody you're dating is treating you poorly. People are like, well, isn't saying let them mean you're just letting them abuse you? I'm like, no, you're already allowing that they're already abusing you. You're just explaining it away in your head and making excuses for why, like this is somehow acceptable and attractive to you. And I'm not blaming the victim here, because there are serious situations. I used to be a crisis intervention counselor on a domestic violence hotline. The average person in an abusive relationship it's seven. It's the seventh time that the leave actually sticks because of the psychological torture of being in a relationship like that. That said, one of the things that keeps you in a dysfunctional dynamic with somebody is the hope that it's changing. And so when you say let them, you are actually forcing yourself to see someone's behavior as the truth, how they treat you and feel about you. And the problem that most of us get into is that we live in a fantasy in our head instead of facing the reality of what's actually happening. And if you find that you're like, why am I always with people that won't commit, it's because you're confusing yourself. If they only text you and don't want to see you in real life, it means they're not interested in you.
They're bored.
If you know, like people are like I always have people that sring me along. Nobody can string you along. You actually tie yourself up in nuts. Yeah, because you're unwilling to let their behavior speak the truth that they're not interested in you.
They're not listening.
Yes, yeah, So that's why this is so critical when it comes to relationships, because we make excuses for things that we shouldn't be making excuses for.
Is this one that piece of being sort of settled in familiar pain rather than seeking an unfamiliar pain comes in.
So there is some really interesting research about this was like a fascinating and such a simple explanation. It comes from doctor K who goes as the Healthy gamer online and he's a Harvard trans psychiatrist who studies gaming addiction, and he's unbelievable.
He had this way of explaining the brain and.
Motivation that completely demystified for me why it's so hard to actually change. And he basically was like, look, the problem with all of us is we don't understand our own wiring the human brain.
Here's what you need to understand.
You are actually wired to move towards what's easy right now, That's why we sit on the couch instead of running. It's why we think about building an online business instead of doing it. It's why we think about paying our bills instead of like and then we spend money. We move towards what's easy now because your brain is actually wired to do it. Your brain is also wired to move and push against what feels hard. So in order to change, you have to defy your own circuitry. You have to either say, I know this thing is hard, but I've got a reason that's important enough that I'm willing to do the hard work to lose the weight, to cut out sugar, to get up on time, to get a different job. Now here's where this gets interesting, because we are hardwired to move towards what's easy. People actually typically only change if the situation that they're in is harder than the thing that they're avoiding. So, like, you know, anybody that has ever gotten sober will tell you get to a point where it's harder to actually drink right than facing the stuff that you want to face. And so what happens in our relationships is, you know, we want to change everybody else and so you know, you see your spouse or Sarah, your partner, and they're sitting on the couch munching some chips, watching the game, and you're like.
Why are they not going? Why am I not doing that?
And then you make the suggestion and you didn't motivate them by going it's a great day for a walk.
What happened is they're like, no, your walk.
And if I would be going on a walk exactly, I know that I could be going on a walk right now. And so you now become the thing that's actually feeling hard. So now they're like pushing away from you. It's natural brain wiring. You're the one creating the resistance. They're not the problem.
You are.
This was me for fifty four years.
Yeah, I have.
A question because I feel like this theory makes so much sense when it comes to family, when it comes to romantic relationships. Can you speak to how it can work in a situation where you've landed your dream job? Uh, the job market is terrible. You're like, yes, I've gotten this. Now you have a toxic boss. Say right, how does the let them let me theory work in a situation like that where quitting is not feasible to you.
Where why is it not feasible?
Because maybe you have a family to raise and it's going to take time to there may be the job that you're in. There's not a lot of jobs out there, And so say quitting's not on the table.
You're talking two actresses.
I don't think that's true, but okay, but say it is true, okay for some people sitting here right.
Okay, if you would like your excuse, you can have it.
Okay, I'd like the excuse in the scenario. So in this scenario, what can you do?
Okay?
Because I feel like not everybody that has a toxic manager, whoever, should have to quit their job to get out of the situation.
Correct, So whether it's a great question, okay, And I didn't mean to be a smart ass.
I meant to say that.
When you're in a situation where you're confronted, it's easy to say I have no power.
Yeah.
There is a major difference between what is in your control yeah, and actually having power.
Okay.
And in a situation where you have a boss or a mother in law that is toxic, you are never in control of your mother in law or your toxic boss. You have to let them be who they are, because wishing they're going to change is just going to create angst and stress for you, Okay. And so when you say let them, you are recognizing with steely, cold eyes, the situation that you're in, okay, and you are going to remove any hope that you can change them, and you're going to remove any hope that they're actually going to change. And the reason why this is important is because the power is not in them. If you want a situation to change, the only person who has the power to change it is you. And so there are a couple of things you can do here, okay. And I'm going to assume, for the sake of the fact that you said toxic boss, that we're not in a situation where this is a person that's breaking laws. Okay, So that is violating HR policies that would.
Get them fired. Yes, do this makes sense? They're just a dick.
They're a dick. And maybe there, you know, it's a situation where you're always being looked over for the promotion and you feel like that there, you know, in a situation like that, how how can you help? It's so frustrating because I feel like, if you're a toxic boss, like, what are the repercussions for you?
There should be.
You can't just go through life being a toxic boss.
Right. There's a lot of people that have very toxic behavior.
There's a lot of challenging people, and unfortunately, we live in a world where challenging people get rewarded because they exhaust us and people get afraid of them, and everybody tips around that person and everyone's scared to rock the boat. Those kind of people bring in the money, so nobody wants to rock them out. And so here's the choice that you have. Because you can't control that person, and you can't control what the company at large is going to do. You can only control what you're going to do in that situation. Okay, So number one, when you say let them, you recognize that any hope that they're changing is actually a waste of time and it keeps you gaslating yourself, and any wish that they're changing is you giving your power away and actually not recognizing that you have power. And so one option that you have after you say let them my boss is my boss, is let me remind myself that my energy and time matters and so as I'm driving into work, I'm not going to brace because I know what I'm walking into.
And let me remind myself.
That if I'm going to continue to be in this job and not actually go look for other things, then I'm actually owning this situation and I'm going to learn how to tolerate it. And the other thing that I I will tell you is that your energy is more powerful than your bosses. Even though you perceive that they have control over everything, you're actually in control of your career. I don't think it's true that there's only one place to work. I don't think it's true that there aren't other opportunities. I think we blind ourselves to it, and we say, well, I need the money and I've worked so hard, and this is n't fair. What if there was something way better? Yeah, and putting all your energy here is blinding you to the fact that there's another door open over there. But because you waste all your time and energy allowing this jackass to drain your life force, when you get home at the end of the day, you don't have the energy to look around the other thing that you can do. If it's really that bad, there's two other things I would recommend, since we're talking about work, one is like document everything that's happening and then actually talk to people that he reports to. And you might get fired, yeah, but you might actually feel empowered yeah, because you're not just taking it and taking it and taking it. You're recognizing that I get to choose how I respond. And then I want to let that's let me piece. And then here's the other thing I want to I want to give you some research. It's really important for women to hear catalysts. Did a huge study about what actually creates a salary raise or a promotion for women, and I personally believe that this research is true for absolutely anybody at any age. And there's only one skill and one thing that actually directly ties to somebody getting a promotion at work. You want to know what it is?
Sure any guesses tolerance?
No, nope, it's are your contributions known? There's the stamina, but no, it's are your contributions known?
I call this visibility.
Are the contributions that you're making to the organization visible to the people who could promote you? And the answers probably know because you're busy with your head down working, working, working, hoping that your boss notices, or hoping that their boss's notices. And I'm going to tell you something in life, your career is not your boss's responsibility, it's yours.
Yeah, I think that can happen in the home, of course, those who work in the home. You can be going, going, going, going, and nobody's.
Right, and then you're pissed off because your contributions aren't visible. And what I'm here to say is that visibility is your responsibility. And so if you feel like you are being looked over, first of all, you deserve to work somewhere where you feel seen and accepted and appreciated and compensated to the work that you do. If you would like to be compensated for more than what you are currently doing, then you've got to make sure that you are taking responsibility. Let me make sure that what I'm and done is known by people and that it's more than what they're actually paying me to do. Because if you're doing a good job, great, that's what I'm paying you to do. If you actually want a promotion, then what are the contributions that you're making and how are you making them visible?
So historically, men are maybe better at this. Sure I have another scenario, Sure, bring it. We have young listeners.
Huh, so.
Bullying in school? How does the let them let Me theory work in a.
Scenario like that?
How old are the kids, like, say, they're in high school?
Okay, So the let them Theory book itself is about adult relationships, and there's this huge download in the back or can buy doctor Stuart Ablon from matt General Brigham psychologist who's been practicing working with kids at mass General Brigham in Boston for thirty years. And so there's this huge guide that is so powerful that is going to answer all the questions on parenting. But let's talk about that situation. So you're if you are in high school and you're listening to my words and you are being bullied. When you say let them, you are not allowing somebody to bully you. What you're actually doing is you are separating your worth from what they say about you. Okay, now, but here's the important thing. Okay, this is not something to tolerate. I don't want you to just take this on the chin. You shouldn't be taking this and having to deal with this on your own.
That's the let me part.
Let me remind myself that I deserve to walk into school and actually feel safe and be able to be respected. And because I deserve that, and I know that, I am going to talk to my teachers, my parents, the administration and tell them what's happening. Because what happens when that sort of thing happens is you're so ashamed that it's happening, and you're so beaten down that you don't even ask for help. And so you say, let them say what they're going to say, let them pick on me, but let me remind myself because I can't. The powers not in trying to control the bullies or avoiding them. The power is in me recognizing this is not okay. And so my response is going to be not to tolerate this in silence, but to go and tell somebody because they shouldn't.
Be doing this.
Because the other thing we know about kids that bully is that they got taught to do that because they were probably being bullied by their parents. That doesn't mean that it's okay. It means it's a learned behavior that is not going away until adults step in and actually intervene. And you know, part of The problem is is that it doesn't just happen in school. You know, it's happening in the hallways, but it's also happening online. And so if it's happening to you online, you're gonna say let them say, let let them because this is it's already happened.
But then you're gonna let me remind myself I can block people.
I need to tell people that this is happening to me, like I I am not going to allow myself to sit in silence because this is this kind of it's not okay.
Yeah, it's the reaching out for help, yes, and how much dignity there is and how much strength there is, yes.
I think there's I think there's confusion though in the wording of letting them in a situation like that, hearing it, because it almost feels like let.
Them, let them do what they're gonna do, let them say what they're going to say. I'm not going to give these people power. I'm going to remind myself that I get to choose what I think about myself and saying this isn't okay, and you don't get to do this to me, that is taking your power back. Saying that is saying to yourself, I deserve to get some help here. I'm not going to suffer in silence. When you say let let them, you're not giving somebody permission to harm you. What you're recognizing is spending time and energy wishing it would go away doesn't make it go away. Yes, spending time and energy trying to change the people that are doing this to you actually drains your time and energy. I want you to detach from what they're doing and remind yourself. Let me remind myself that I deserve to feel safe, I deserve to get help. I am not here on this earth to suffer like this, and I'm not going to allow myself to suffer alone.
And that going to somebody.
At school, whether it's a counselor whether it is somebody in your family that you trust, and actually telling somebody that is one of the greatest acts of self love that you can do, because you are recognizing that you are a person who doesn't deserve to be treated this way, and you're saying it to somebody and you're getting help. And I think one of the reasons why a lot of kids suffer alone is because they're afraid their parents are going to intervene, and then they're afraid they're going to make it worse. And I know that I've had situations with my kids when they're in middle school in high school, especially our son, where I'm like.
What are they? Don't you like?
And you have to restrain your emotions when somebody comes to you with a very difficult situation like it.
Well, let's take one with adults.
You've got a friend who confesses that you know somebody in their life is cheated on them. The last thing you want want to do is jump in and be like that son of a bitch. You want to be like, how are you feeling? What can I do?
This must be so painful? Yeah, And simply.
Calming your own emotions and judgment and validating what somebody is feeling, that's what they need. M Yes, And then you ask and I would ask this if if I had somebody in high school call me and talk about this, I would say to them, no matter how serious this is, doctor Stuart Ablin's approach, he calls it with them, have you thought about what you want to do?
Yeah?
So you have somebody that calls into your show and they're distraught and there's so many kids struggling with anxiety and depression and doing self harm and feeling like there's nobody. Have you thought about what you might want to do? Course, it's all they thought about, but they probably have some really good ideas. And you even just asking that validates that I actually think you're capable. I'd be curious to hear what you think you'd like to do? How can I support you in that?
Yeah?
Which, and now you start to feel empowered.
Yeah, which is so great in parenting and I love that in friendship and marriage and as a daughter to a mother.
Have you thought about what you'd like to do?
I find that hard with the kids, I'm learning, I'm doing better, I swear I find myself like truly like like like I've been slowed down, and like.
I believe in your ability to fix the situation.
Yes, and you and I have to say, I've really like been like walking the talk and.
What's happening magical.
Like I walked by my seventeen year old son's room the other day and I walked by the door's always open, which, thank you lord, he still keeps his door open.
Because you're taking the door off. You've taken the door off. I walk by, and I truly like, and I really went like, huh.
And I looked and I was like, because you've gone out. And what I saw was a completely clean room with a completely made bed.
And guess what I hadn't done. I hadn't asked.
Him to clean his room.
Yeah, And I hadn't asked him to make his bed that day. That day, that day, I had laid in there like hey, and I kind of did.
Guys, you gotta read this book.
I did the thing I think I did. Tell me how I did. I sat him down. I said, here's the deal. When I walked by your room and the bed's undone, and your bag's there, and everything's stilling out and the expensive computers side with all the thing, it makes me feel like you think I should be taking care of your stuff. And I don't want to take care of your stuff anymore. I want to go out to dinner with you. I want to play a game with you, I want to listen to what's happening.
Yeah, I didn't want to hear rid your girlfriend. I don't want to.
Clean up sure. Yeah.
And it was a conversation I had like two days and then when I walked by, and I mean, goosebumps all out my bike.
No, I know, we're talking about cleaning up a room. But it was a game changer and it was simple, and I was just very honest and I really didn't even put any like super you know, your mother's an actress dramatic language in. I really just said exactly that.
I said exactly that.
Growth Yes, okay, you brought up an example, and I think that we also have so many listeners that call in heartbroken.
Oh, yes, okay, let's go.
I know, right, and you mentioned something that I again because I wish i'd read this when I was sixteen. I actually probably could have gotten into this when I was sixteen. But what a gift in my twenties to have, in a heartbroken state taken a sentence out of your book, which was, if someone were to tell me that they knew with absolute certainty, but the love of my life was five months away, what would I do with the time that I was in?
Yes, And it blew my mind.
Well, let's talk about heartbreak, because the interesting thing is like, yeah, it would be get well.
Because you don't think they are.
And so yeah, here's I want I want to back up a little bit, because my twenty five year old daughter and I wrote this book together. Yeah, we argued over every word. I'd be like, well we should I think I'm gonna tell this story. She's like, that's the stupidest story. Twenty five year old person my age cares about that, Like, we walk with my story. So when we were writing the book, we were writing the love section and how to use the let them theory to really choose and create the best love story of your life and the best loving relationships of your life. And so we get to the part like we go through like the early stages and situationships and then how to take it to the next level, and then how to decide is this the right person or is this not my person?
And then we get to the section on.
Heartbreak, and I kid you not, twenty four hours into writing this section, her boyfriend, who she thought was going to be the end of the aisle, broke up with her.
Wow, and she.
Was like, this is the stupidest advice I've ever And she was in a heap, crying on the floor and in a dispressive state. And of course when it happens, because he was like part of our families, like in the digital frame and now I'm like having to.
Hit Paul's oh god, yeah.
Frame, and now he and his mother and I are texting, and I know it's a boundary.
I can't believe this, you know, like yeah.
And so it was the most extraordinary gift of an experience, Yeah, yeah, because we wrote that section of the book while she was processing the biggest heartbreak of.
Her entire life in real time.
And when you say let them, let them walk out the door, let them move on, let them not love me, let them not want a commitment, doesn't take the pain away.
It helps you recognize.
That that chapter of your life is actually over. And the advice is incredible because you're gonna.
Say let them, let them, let them, let them, let them.
And the only advice that's out there about heartbreak is like.
Well me cown a revenge diet.
Get like, and you don't love yourself, you can hate yourself like you actually think you're unlovable. You think that you're never going to find love again. You don't think you're attractive. You feel rejected.
Aren't You're getting picked?
Yes, exactly, And so you are supposed to be in a depressive state. This is why you've got to like, if somebody in your life is going through this, they're grieving, They're grieving the loss of the life they thought they were going to have. And then the book goes even deeper because I'd never thought about heartbreaks this way. Heartbreaks hurt so badly because you're not just grieving the life that you thought you were going to have, You're actually having to unlearned life with a person. You are going through detox in your nervous system, in your brain because your nervous system and brain has actually created patterns in your body because you've spent years with this person, and so you hear their voice, you sense their presence, and the mistake that we make, especially in the early days, You're like, that must mean they miss me, that must mean they're mind. No, it means your nervous system is actually having to break patterns them. And so the recommendation, which you know, my daughter and I did a whole podcast episode about this too, and we've received more write ends about this episode where she walked through the process that our therapist said she should go through, which is first of all, when you when it happens, allow yourself to be in a depressive state.
Yeah, but you have to go.
Through a thirty day no contact, no photos, no voice memos, no videos, no reminders, detox because you have to because anytime, because you're going through this experience in your body where your brain is actually breaking apart hearing the patterns of their voice. You're going through an experience of your body, of your nervous system sensing the presence in your bed.
And this is normal.
And so if you look at a voice memo or you check their location, guess what you just did. It's like an It's like somebody who's sober taking a drink. Yeah, you literally just activated all those old pathways. So somebody that you know, that girlfriend that can't get over somebody, it's they've never taken a thirty day break. They still see the photos, they still cut, so they keep this old circuitry alive in their body.
Which is so much harder to do.
Yes, this is why it's even more critical, because you're actually keeping this alive.
Yes, and they fucking left. The worst thing that you could do is be with somebody. Yeah when you don't want to be with them.
I know.
Okay, so she did this yes, and what was it like after the thirty days?
So after she's she's adorable because after the thirty days, she was like, okay, I can call him now. Oh god, yes, yes, Well she's like, we're honest.
Yeah, yeah, of.
Course, Well no she's not.
I'm saying she thinks she said that literally even hearing the voice, Yeah, just flooded the body.
So day thirty one she called her.
Of course, she said, I was able to actually have a conversation, like any chance, and clearly there wasn't okay, and it didn't hurt as much as it would have. Yeah, and she was also able to go, Okay.
I gotta move on.
And without that, what would have happened is what happened in like every relationship so many of us have, as we hold on for so long, Yes, because we're keeping them alive, like just literally replaying all the things. And so you know, there's a couple of recommendations, which is you're gonna say, let them, let them, let them, let them, let them, let them, love them, to just detach, detached, detached, detached. You should absolutely remove any anything that triggers a memory of them. For those thirty days, you'd have to burn it or do anything stupid or dramatic. Just put it in a box, get it out of site. You Like, I literally was pausing the photos in the frame and I'm pausing like maybe we'll come back.
Okay, this would be great, Like I'm hold on, let them, let them, let them.
And then the other thing is is that I it was a huge breakthrough for us because I am such a fixer.
I wanted to take her paint.
Away and I just had to let her be depressed. So let her where her pajamasy is. Let her collapse on the floor and cry. Let her have that experience, because that's how she's going to move through it. And if I let her cry and I just you know, put my arms around her, say nothing, I'm actually communicating to her, I believe you can move through this even.
Though it sucks. And so.
These are And another really important thing to do is give your bedroom a small makeover because you spend a lot of time there. And by small maker, I mean you can move your bed to a different wall, you can put a different comforter on. You can you know, fluff up the pillows or get some cheap throw pillows somewhere, like change it up, paint a wall as a visual reminder that something new has begun, and the other There are some other recommendations too, But you know, the research is also helpful here because the research says that after about eleven weeks, seventy.
Percent of people start to feel better.
Why because time away helps you accept reality. But what you do with that time matters. And so this third, if you have if you're not over your ex, I guarantee you you've never gone thirty days without checking their location or watching a video or looking at their social And that's and you're the one keeping them alive. You're still living in a chapter of your life that's over. Yeah, that's not that person's fault, it's yours. I believe that everyone can do this, absolutely.
And I.
So have loved hearing you say all this in person, even though, like I said, I've actually heard it three times and I hear.
God keep listening to it. I would like to say also that.
To encapsulate how contagious let them theory is.
I spoke about it a little bit. My daughter and I went on a trip.
We had car time.
We're talking and she's asking what I'm reading. I'm not asking her what she's reading, and we.
Talked about it.
I just gave her like the elevator version. And I hear her later we're in a hotel room. I'm in the bathroom and she's on the phone with a friend who's They put them all on speaker, and the friend is saying how poorly she was treated by another friend. And she's listening, and Eve is very compassionate, and just that she's listening. She's listening, and I'm putting on makeup. I don't know what I'm doing, and all of a sudden I hear her say, you know what, let them yeah, And I was like mid eyelash stroke, like what I was like, And of course I go to listen.
And she used it perfectly.
The friend hadn't been invited to go to bride, and she said, let them go to brunch.
They don't get to be with you. Let them go to brunch.
Why don't you go for But it was just it was so it was fluid, and it was supportive, and it wasn't denying anyone their experiences of there are horrible people in the world.
And sadly a lot of them have a lot of power, and they.
Have power we think they have power over us, but this is an incredible tool and I'm so grateful to have it out in the world. Yeah, so thank you for being with us.
Thank you, and for anybody we had to let them theory book that you can order.
I think she even signed. When well she's signed, you're.
Gonna thout her and thank you so much. We have so many generations of listeners and everything. You covered so much in just the time that we had, and I just know that it's going to be so helpful for me everybody listening, and so yeah, we just want to thank you so much. That's really gift, it really is. Yeah, thank you, thank.
You for inviting me here, thank you for reading the book. I'm just excited that that so many people are excited about a book that is helping you improve your life. You know, I'm a huge fantasy reader, love fantasy, and so I understand when like books take off in fantasy. But it's amazing to see a book that isn't about escaping your life into an alternate universe. It's about actually turning back into your life, yes, and tapping into the power that you have. And you know you were saying, we're both saying very very kind things to me about you know, the difference that I'm making. But I think this is the way that I see it because I just view myself as your friend that hast up a lot, and I feel like we're all on this kind of walk on life together, Like we're all on the road together, and there are times in life where you're going to be a couple steps ahead of me. There are times where I'm going to be a couple steps ahead of you. And if you open up your heart, you can actually learn from anybody. And I think your best equipped to help the person you used to be. And so to me, the reason why this resonates is because I'm just reminding you of something that you know to be true about you. Yes, like I'm actually slowing you down and reminding you that you do have power. I'm reminding you that the things that we tend to overlook actually do matter. How you talk to yourself, like the friendships, like your family, like these things actually matter, and that your time and that your energy is valuable, but it's only going to be valuable if you protect it right, And this is helping you do it, amen, And then yeah.
For sure, my goodness, absolutely.
That yes yes, yes, yes, yes yes yes all right, so much.
To digest, So this is part of the episode.
We're sadly the saddest time I've ever had to say this.
Let's call it the end of the episode. That's such a cute ending
