We all love the formula, the life-hack or the simple, three-step recipe. But motherhood isn’t that simple. On this Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, Emily Jensen and Laura Wifler will help moms navigate their everyday circumstances and decisions through a biblical lens. Find out what it means to become a “gospel mom,” on Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman.
Featured resource: Gospel Mom: How to Make Biblical Decisions and Discover the Mom God Created You to Be
The term risen motherhood, the name of our ministry. That's really what it means. It's living motherhood in light of the redemption of Christ and looking ahead towards heaven, of when God will consummate his plan. Our hope is that that can really transform things for moms as they live within that context and see the world through that paradigm.
Welcome to Building Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. Today, throw away the formula and the three step answers and learn how to become the mom God made you to be. Authors Laura Wiffler and Emily Jensen join us for a fresh approach to motherhood.
We're going to deal with mom guilt today. How to not miss those early years with your kids, and a whole lot more as we discuss the book, Gospel Mom How to Make Biblical Decisions and Discover the Mom God Created You to Be. You can find out more at the website. Building relationships.us and it strikes me, Gary, this whole idea of the script, the formula, the checklist is something that we all crave. I know I do. But the formula will only take us so far. Do you agree with that?
Yeah. Chris, it would be nice if we just had a one, two, three, four, five and everybody does the same thing. But we're individuals, you know, and our children are individuals, so it's not quite that simple. Those things can be helpful, but it's not quite that simple. I'm excited about our conversation today because I think a lot of moms and dads too, for that matter, are looking for help. And I think what we're going to discuss today is going to give a vantage point that many times moms haven't thought about or dads haven't thought about.
Well, let's meet our guests. Emily Jensen and Laura Wiffler are the co-founders of Risen Motherhood and the authors of the bestselling book with that same title. Through their ministry, their podcast, the books they write, they help moms connect their faith to their motherhood. Their sisters in law both live in central Iowa with their families. Emily and her husband have five children. Laura and her husband have three. So Emily's two ahead right now. And in that in that competition, which it's not. Find out about our featured resource at Building relationships.us. It's titled Gospel Mom How to Make Biblical Decisions and discover the mom God created you to be. Again, go to building relationships.us.
Well, Emily and Laura, welcome to Building Relationships.
Oh, thanks for having us. We're happy to be here.
We're delighted to have you. Before we talk about becoming a gospel, mom, let's back up and tell us your story. Emily, we'll start with you. How did you two get together and begin risen? Motherhood?
Yeah, well, as you mentioned, Laura and I are sisters in law, and we're also friends. Um, when we had, you know, our first babies and toddlers, we found we were asking a lot of questions about how our faith and the truths of Scripture apply to the very mundane things we were facing in motherhood. So everything from, you know, what choices do I make about feeding first foods to my children? What do I do about helping them sleep through the night? How do I potty train them? And our hearts as Christian moms were to make decisions and use methods that were in alignment with the Word of God. But of course, like Scripture does not directly speak to any of those things. And so, just as friends and family members, we started talking regularly about these things. And what we found was just this incredible wisdom that God's Word had to provide. But it took a little bit of thinking. It took a little bit of problem solving, trial and error, prayer, wisdom and processing. And so that's really how we began. Risen. Motherhood. We found we had a lot of friends who were having these same conversations within the context of the church, and Laura and I were like, hey, let's just get out a couple of podcast mics and record ourselves as we are processing through these topics. And that's really how risen motherhood got started. And, you know, goodness, that was in 2016. So it was quite a while ago now. And it's just been amazing to see how God has, has grown that and has just grown our our wisdom along the way. And it's really how Gospel Mom came to be.
Well, Laura, it's encouraging that the two of you are sister in laws and friends. As you know, that's not always the case.
Yeah, God's been kind.
We've definitely tried to prioritize the sister in law aspect of the relationship before the colleague part, and I think that the Lord has really blessed that, as we've said, hey, we really want to remain family and friends forever, no matter what happens.
That's great. Well, Laura, what are some of the big issues facing moms today that you're addressing with your ministry and this new book?
Yeah. You know, one of the biggest things that's sort of the story as old as time it's been around since Eve, is that moms are really just looking for what to do. You know, as you mentioned in the intro, we all want a formula for life. We want to know I need to do one, two, three and four in order to be known as a good mom. I want to know that I've done a good job. And so just give me the handbook, give me the formula. And of course, there are a lot of issues that come out of this. Things like when we don't meet it, we feel shame or guilt. We can turn to anger or vices like social media or other things. And so there are a lot of things wrapped up in this question and ultimately beyond this formulaic question, it's really a question of identity, because as we search scriptures, we see that as moms are saying, well, just tell me what to do. God is saying, but first I want to show you who to be. And so that is really what we're trying to address in Gospel Mom, is that as moms get their identity aligned with Christ and they understand who they are in him, and they understand the really the whole of Scripture and what God's design is for motherhood. They will begin to understand how to make decisions out of that. When they are oriented and steadfast on their identity and who they are in Christ, then actually decisions become a whole lot easier because they begin to understand who they are, what their life circumstances are, what their husband prefers, like, all these different things come into play, and they're less looking to the right or to the left, to the internet, or to another mom friend to tell them who to be. But they already know. They already know who they are, and therefore that helps them play out with what to do. And that's really what we're unpacking in the book.
Yeah. Well, Emily, let's define our terms. What is a gospel, mom?
Yeah, man, I feel like the word gospel is thrown around a lot today. and there are different ways to use that word. I think most of us know it as you know, the good news of Jesus Christ and just really the story of Jesus dying for our sins and being raised. And that is the gospel, right? That is the good news. But when we are using the word gospel, we are speaking of really the redemptive story of God, the whole meta narrative of Scripture, really, from, you know, Genesis to Revelation. The good news is, yes, this kind of tidbit we can package and share with people in hopes that they would come to salvation. But it's also an understanding of the good news in this very broad sense of how it's completely transforms our lives, and it informs who we are and what our hope is. And so when we think of someone being a gospel mom, we mean that she is looking to God not only for information about what his design is, who he is, what he's like, what her life should be like, but also just her identity and her security and her allegiance. I think that one thing we see moms tempted to do, and we have faced this temptation ourselves, is to align ourselves with lifestyles and methods and strategies and just kind of our ideal picture of motherhood and feel like, okay, well, if I can achieve that, if I can live that out, then I will be good and okay. But really, we should not be putting our hope and our identity in lifestyle choices or methods or even our role as moms. Like that is something that can shift and change over the years, and that's not ultimately going to give us the fulfillment we desire. So a gospel mom is someone who is fully orienting her life around Christ, and there are so many promises that we have that we dive a lot deeper into in the book. For moms who are orienting their lives around Christ, you know everything from not having to face mom guilt and and being able to walk free of that to having hope in the hardest, darkest of situations. So there's a lot there we could unpack, but that's kind of the gist of it.
Yeah, well, I can see that as a foundation stone. That's fundamental. So, Laura, why do you think we tend to gravitate toward formulas?
Formulas feel good. They give us a map, they give us direction. And at the end of the day, it can feel like, hey, if I have this formula, then I'm going to know if I got an A, B, or C on the day. I'm going to know how I did, and I can see how I measured up because like Emily was referencing with with her unpacking of gospel mom, this idea that we want to ultimately know that we are good. It's inherent in our being. God called us good from creation and so we are still looking for that. We're still looking for that approval and formulas make us feel like, oh, maybe I can sort of get a semblance of that. Maybe if I just do enough things right, then I can go to bed at night to night and not have, you know, my whole day replaying and really being worried about the day or thinking of all the things that I did wrong. But if I follow this silver bullet solution or this five step system, then I can go to bed tonight and I can kind of feel good about myself. But ultimately we know that those things don't last and that we put out these checklists and these formulas and we don't measure up. We don't meet them. At some point we will fail and we won't be able to complete it. And that's why knowing the gospel is just so incredibly important and so freeing for a mom, because as she understands that at the end of the day, Christ is the one who measures up on her behalf, and that he did that by dying on the cross in her place. He lived the perfect life that she couldn't, and now he imputes his goodness on us. And that's how God sees us. And that is the most freeing gift for a mom, as she begins to understand that her goodness isn't based on how her day went and how she met the formula, but instead her goodness is steadfast and secure in heaven for her and will never change because of what Christ did for her.
Emily. Moms are constantly bombarded with advice and opinions. How can they discern which voices are truly worth following amidst the noise of conflicting messages that they hear from so many different sources?
Oh, this is so true. And in the age of social media, you know, moms in our modern culture especially, are facing this online. And, you know, it's really difficult because I think there are even a lot of Christian messages out there that are paired with cultural messages or worldly messages. And so I think one of the things a mom can do is to try to hold up those truths to something that she knows is sure and secure and real, and that she can count on. And that is the Word of God. The picture comes to mind, of course, of like counterfeit money versus real money, and being able to know that by by holding it up next to one another and knowing what a real dollar bill looks like, so well that you can spot the other one. And I think one of the challenges that we struggle with as moms is that if we are not spending much time in God's Word and we are not learning it for ourselves, it does become really, really hard to know what's true, what aligns with God's truth and God's commands, or what is just something that sounds good to us at the time. So really being rooted in that is important. But one thing we do at Risen Motherhood often is point moms to women in their real life. You know who they have maybe watched already, raise their own families over the years, or friends that they know and love and trust at church? Or maybe it's a trusted mentor or women's ministry leader, But sometimes in a world of voices online, you know, you don't really know what's going on with someone behind the scenes. They can put forward like a very beautiful aesthetic. Hey, look, my kids are happy, you know, front and like their social media posts can look really good. But maybe behind the scenes, their their marriage is is struggling or we don't really know how their kids are going to turn out yet or, you know, they're yelling or whatever that looks like. And so, um, if you're working through a lot of your questions and voices of women, you know, in real life that you're like, okay, this is a woman of God, this is someone with wisdom. That's a really good place to start.
Laura, I want to one of your concerns is, as the two of you wrote, this book is for moms to not let the early years of their children's lives kind of slip away. What are some of the mistakes that moms can make when the kids are young?
Yeah, we have this saying at Risen Motherhood where we we say that the little years are not the lost years. And really, what we mean by that is that so often, I think as a mom to young children, it can feel like the needs are very urgent and they're very in your face and everybody's needing something. And sometimes it can be hard to kind of come up for air. And we begin to tell ourselves some excuses of, you know, I don't have time, that I'm not getting enough sleep. The kids have a lot of needs. I have full days, whatever it might be. I mean, Emily and I both did this, so we have definitely been right there when our children were young. But what we actually realized now, looking back and even the Lord was just teaching us throughout the years of having young children, was that that's actually a really premium, beautiful spot for moms to slow down and and learn so much from the Lord. For both Emily and I, I know I can speak speak on behalf of both of us. We really found that those first years of motherhood, they threw us into a tailspin. You know, there was just a very real feeling of what our need was for Christ. And I think prior to that, we had sort of been skipping along and maybe there just wasn't as much difficulty or hardship or decision making. But once we had children, I mean, this is how risen motherhood was born, is we were saying, we are desperate. We need the hope of the gospel. We need to understand Scripture and how it applies to our lives. Because, you know our questions really. When we started Risen Motherhood were, hey, is there a more holy way to mother? Is there a better way to do snack time? Is there a better way to do nap time? Because if there's something that God wants, if there's a design that he has, that's better, then we want to do that because we want to honor God. And so there's this really special, I think, opportunity with moms of young children, when they really are in a season that they are seeking answers and they are they are needing advice and help. And so our encouragement is just for moms to take hold of that and to instead of turning to as many mommy bloggers or Instagram influencers or TikTok or whatever it is, but they would first go to Scripture and see that actually Scripture does have all the answers they're looking for. You might not be able to find something like diapers in the Bible, but you can certainly find things about heart motivations and things about how to care for children well, how to understand God's design for life. Like, you can see those things and they actually funnel down and begin to apply and help a mom shape how she makes decisions. And so that for us is to say, moms know when you have young kids at home, don't believe the lie that that it's too busy, that these are the lost years. You'll get to it someday when the kids go off to school. Instead, see this as an incredible opportunity of feeling your need and knowing it, and and letting that drive you to Scripture.
And just to jump in with like some really practical things that I think are so helpful is like, get your kids involved. So I think sometimes in the little years moms are thinking, okay, I have to find a quiet moment of solitude where I won't get interrupted.
Or.
Otherwise. I don't have an option here, and I know that it was so helpful for me to say, actually, I'm going to open my Bible and work on my Bible study while my kids are up and in the room, and I am just anticipating that I'm going to get interrupted several times. It's going to take me a little while to do this, but I'm also going to have a chance to show them and model to them what it looks like to be in the Word of God. Um, other things that moms can do that don't involve, you know, getting out a Bible in front of everybody is just like, what kind of music are you playing in the car? Can you listen to the audio Bible together while you're driving? Can you go on a walk and bring some scripture scripture memory cards with you? And maybe you have your baby and your toddler in your stroller, and you're reading those out loud and you're rehearsing those, um, maybe you have some little popsicle sticks on your counter with some prayers that you guys, you know, people that you're praying for, and you can do that as a family. So one thing we encourage moms to do is to not view time with God as like only isolated to either Sunday morning or a quote unquote quiet time that you're having when everyone else is asleep and in bed, which feels like never happens to you when.
You're a young mom, but to but to really.
Immerse yourself and say, okay, I can get creative here. I have my whole day to be with God in any in any kind of way possible. This is exciting. This is creative. And then suddenly, to be able to pair these everyday activities and things you're doing with spiritual things is so exciting and fun, and it makes it way more sustainable.
Yeah, I like those ideas. I think a lot of moms who are listening are going to find those to be helpful. Now you started a podcast, you started this ministry, you're writing books and all of this in addition to raising your children. Now, I don't know how young they were when you started some of this, but so you've struggled with the with the stress of the time management thing as well, right?
Yes, absolutely. We totally understand having to look at your day, look at your morning and say, Lord, help me. Help me order my priorities today and let those priorities and the way that I am going about the work that you've given me to do in a way that's honoring to you. I think something that moms want, at least this is something that I've wanted, is just to be able to sort of figure out how a day should look and then like, never have to figure that out again. Like, it's okay.
I've got the answer. Like, I'm going to.
I'm going to do this in the morning. I'm going to do this at lunch, this in the afternoon. But honestly, like motherhood and trying to juggle a lot of different things, whether it's growing in your faith or serving at church or there is a vocation that you're pursuing as well. Or maybe you have family members, like extended family members that need additional help and care. All of those different things are going to come and go. And when we stay open handed and continue to bring those things to the Lord humbly and not cling. Cling to a specific schedule that we want or, you know, for our day to look a certain way. But we say, okay, Lord, this is what you're putting on my plate. Help me with wisdom. Walk in this and to not compromise. You know the essential things. He is faithful and he will give wisdom to those who ask. And we have really experienced that over the years of just God's provision. When he calls you to something, you know, he's never going to ask us to do something that's contradictory to his will. So we have certainly not lifted out perfectly, but it has just been a joy to see how God does provide.
I think one of the things that was really important for me to learn, and I know it's a buzzword in, in really all of life, but in motherhood, the word balance. And I'll never forget a time Emily and I, I think you were with me at this same conference. A woman stood up after someone had asked, how do you find balance as a mom? And she stood up from her chair and she stood on one foot, and she was kind of wobbly and shaking a little bit, and she kind of had to keep finding her balance, and she set her foot down a few times and picked it back up. And she was like, do you see this? I am trying to find balance and I have to keep refinding it. And that was such a helpful picture for me. I remember as a young mom because that word balance is like, that's what everyone's seeking. We all want to know that we've nailed it, but really, we have to keep finding it over and over again. And Emma and I always joke too, that seasons for moms, they change every three months. So just you set a plan. Don't expect it to last any longer than three months and things are going to change and you're having to restart again. But I think that is just a really exciting thing that we as moms can be nimble and flexible, and that there is so much room for the spirit to move. And as a mom learns to walk in the spirit and trust God with her schedule, I think she will find that, um, God is really just providing opportunities and creating spaces for her to minister to others. And as she is flexible, I think that there's just enormous work that can happen both in her heart but then in ways that she can serve other people. So it's huge, I think, as a mom, to get used to just saying, okay, life is not going to be consistent all the time. We're going to be willing to change consistently and to have eyes to see where the Spirit's at work and follow that lead.
Flexibility a key, a key word. Yeah. So, Emily, you compare in the book being a gospel mom to a plant or a vine. Can you walk us through how that idea translates practically in a mom's daily life?
Absolutely.
You know, it is funny to think of humans a little bit like plants, but I actually really love this analogy because plants it. Caring for them sometimes is like a little bit more of an art than a science. It feels like I'm sure there are people that go to school. Right. To do plants as science. But I think, you know, it's a little bit like, okay, this plant needs a little bit more light right now and a little bit more water. And then oh no, it's got too much water. And then there are certain times of the year that you need to give it, you know, a little bit more nutrition. And there's some leaves that need to get torn off at different times. And when you care for a plant, it doesn't immediately change, right? It's like the pattern of caring for it over time lends it like more towards health and, you know, vitality and growth. Or over time it can start to look a little bit more sickly. It can start to wilt. And so I think that that's a little bit more how we are. It's often right, not the immediate daily decision that we make that like totally turns the ship, but it's what we do day in and day out over a longer period of time that shapes us and changes us. And so as we were kind of thinking about this, we were talking a little bit about spiritual disciplines and spiritual habits. And these are things in a mom's life that shape her over time. So spiritual disciplines and habits do not save us. They don't, you know, earn us God's love. We are rooted in the Lord. We are growing because of the Holy Spirit's work in our lives. But at the same time, there are things that we can do to help participate in that growth. So spiritual disciplines are really things like Bible reading and prayer and participating in a local church or corporate worship. These are kind of the things you think of where we kind of all know, right? Like, this is what I should be doing as a Christian. But that's because these things over time are a grace to us. And they are. What we would like to say is like a steak in a mom's life. So think about staking a plant and you're helping it have the room and the support that it needs to grow healthy. And then when it comes to spiritual habits, these are things that I think are sometimes a little bit more ambiguous and harder for us to get our arms around, but they also significantly affect our growth. This is things like, hey, what kind of friends do we have? Are we investing in healthy friendships? What type of media do I take in? What types of things do I feed my mind and my heart? Um, how do I take care of my physical body, including my sleep and my nutrition? So there's all kinds of areas to where the habits that we have, um, really affect who we are and how we're able to love others. And so we talk a little bit about this in the book as well, and just talk about how it's really important for moms to do both.
What you just said sounds reminiscent of what Jesus said. I am the vine. You are the branches. Remain in me. Right, Laura?
That's right. Yes. I mean, so much of this is modeled after just the example that we see in Christ, and that's what our heart is for moms to see them abiding in Christ. That's where that question we've talked about, which is not what am I supposed to do? But who am I supposed to be? That's where that question finds its answer. As we abide in Christ. We begin to bear fruit. And and there is also pruning that happens. And we see just so much of our lives as gospel moms play out within that story. And it's certainly just vital and important to be connected to Christ.
This is the building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast. Thanks for listening and for telling others about our conversations. When you go to five Love languages.com, you can find more ways to strengthen your relationships. Just click the resources tab and you'll find the podcast there and today's featured resource. Again go to five Love languages.com.
Laura, in the book you write and I'm quoting here, we can acknowledge our hopes and desires for the way we thought things would be, but we must evaluate and accept the life God has given us. That is the place we actually live with the husband we actually have now. How can moms let go of what if's and embrace their own reality?
Yeah, you know, this is a hard skill and I'll just use my own life as an example. I know that when my daughter was born with disabilities, I as she grew and aged and my other friends and family members were having children that grew in age, I remember there would be several times where I would sort of look over and see their lives and think, oh, I should be living like them. I should be taking trips like they were, or I should be maybe even feeling just some longing and enviousness of, oh, they don't need babysitters anymore, or they have more free time in their day. And I would sort of look at these lives and one look at them with longing. And then two, I would think, well, my life should look like theirs. Like I should be able to do dinners like they do, or to do screen time like they do or whatever it is. And over time, God just really worked in my heart to show me that no, Lord, you have a different situation. Just as every mom's situation is unique, but our family vacations are likely going to look a lot different than a family that has three typical children that, you know, maybe we have some different accommodations that we need for our daughter, and instead of constantly living in sort of a state of enviousness or jealousy or even just mourning and grief, that my life doesn't look like someone else's, I had to begin to learn to accept what Christ had for me, and see that as good, and see it as being able to live on mission for him. And the way that I sort of worked through that was really understanding God's design. And I remember kind of working through this element that, you know, it is okay that I feel sad that I have a child with disabilities because God's design is good for mankind, and it didn't include disabilities. It's a result of the fall. And so as we work through the gospel, we see what creation was and what original what it was originally designed as. And then we have the fall where the world is broken because of sin, and things just don't operate like they did before the fall. And so now there's disabilities in the world. So I can be sad about that. And I can honor that grief and sadness because it's different than God's creation. But then we have redemption, and we know that Christ came and he redeemed all things, and that I have so many hopes and promises in him. And there are just good gifts from the spirit, from redemption of thinking through how Christ treated people with disabilities, this love and care for them, even just the things that I can learn from my daughter with disabilities. And so there are these beautiful things being cultivated in my life because of Christ's redemption. And then I have the hope of heaven to look forward to. Right. I have the hope that someday there will be no more tears, no more crying, no more difficulty, and that disabilities will be gone. And so as I sort of began to take my actual life that I actually live and think through the lens of the gospel, I started to see actually God's beautiful plan for it and to begin to accept that this is the life that I have, and I need to learn to operate within this, instead of looking over and saying, oh, I wish that I could do it like that, or I wish that my life could go this way, or I should be able to do all these things all these other moms can do. But instead, by really learning to frame my personal circumstances within the lens of the gospel, I started to learn how to flourish, really, and to walk into my calling as a mom to a child with disabilities. And so I think anyone listening can really take whatever their struggle. Because I know mine is is not, you know, unique. There are many other moms that struggle with that or lots of other things, and they can take that and, and run through the lens of the gospel, which is what we work through in the book Gospel Mom. We teach moms how to do that, and they can then begin to start to say, okay, Lord, I want to be content in the life you've given me. I want to trust you that this you have a good plan for my life, and that the hope of heaven is real and it's coming for me. And I want to live in light of that redemption. And, you know, that's really even the term risen motherhood, the name of our ministry. That's really what it means. It's living motherhood in light of the redemption of Christ and looking ahead towards heaven, of when God will consummate his plan. And our hope is that that can really transform things for moms as they live within that context and see the world through that paradigm.
I'm sure there's a lot of our listeners who can identify Laura with what you just shared. I really appreciate you sharing your own story there, because there's a lot of moms out there who have children, who have various kinds of disabilities. But Emily, also in that passage that I read, we talked about husbands are different. And we have we have the husband we have. Right. And so that's another place for adjustment and accepting where I am, not where I wish I was right.
Absolutely. I mean, of course, to like we are a team. We're a pair husband and wife. And so it's so important for both husband and wife to sit down together and work on getting on the same page, sharing your hopes and desires with one another, making plans together, getting on the same page about things like education and discipline and how are we going to disciple our children. And what's exciting is that, like both husband and wife bring different strengths and weaknesses to the table. They bring different ideas to the table, different gifts to the table. And it's great when you can come together and say, hey, we're not exactly alike. We don't want all of the exact same things, but probably both together have the same ultimate goal. So it's really being intentional and strategic to pair those things with one another. And I think for moms especially, you know, sometimes when we are looking at other families like Laura brought up, you know, trips and and that's something for me that I will struggle with at times. Like, I grew up taking a lot of family vacations. That was like a really big value in my family. And so when I came into marriage and we started having kids, like I thought, okay, every year we're going to sit down and we're going to like, plan this epic summer trip somewhere. And that was something for my husband that, like, he didn't necessarily have her experience in the same way growing up. And he came to the table feeling like, hey, I love being home all summer. And I don't I don't really have a big desire for that. I don't have a lot of goals for that. And so it's been interesting over the years. And just to put this principle into play in my own life that as I've looked around at other families and been like, oh, they're going to this place, they're going to that place. I have to remember, like, that's not a biblical expectation or requirement that we go on these family vacations. That's a cultural standard. And so the fact that we're not doing that, like I, I can still have that desire, but like, I need to be careful that I'm not making it bigger than it is. And certainly my husband and I have talked through those things and he's listened and we've both been able to share our perspective. But at the end of the day, like I recognize, hey, this is the husband that I have and this is the family that that we have. And so we're probably going to do it a little bit different. And like that's okay. Um, and so I think that all moms probably have different things like that where you might be looking at someone else's life and saying, oh, I want to do it exactly that way. But like, we have to take into account the spouse that God has us with and and to make sure that we're operating as a team.
We are where we are and sometimes it's hard to accept that reality. I have dealt with families where the husband has a job that takes him out of town for long periods of time. You know, every week. And so the moms think, oh man, I wish I had a husband who was home every night, you know, and I've had moms who are working moms because their husband's vocation is not adequate to take care of their needs. And so she's a working mom, but she says, man, I really I'd like to be a stay at home mom. So yeah, but accepting our reality and asking, you know, how we can work together as a team as we are and who we are? Yeah. Really, really important. Well, let me ask you this, Laura. Uh, personal conscience plays a significant role in your message. How would you define personal conscience? And why is it important as moms navigate daily decisions?
Yeah, we definitely talk about personal conscience a lot at the ministry and within our books and resources, and it's just a really important thing, I think, to begin to understand, because what your personal conscience is, it is your own personal sense of right and wrong. So sometimes people can kind of think of this as like Jiminy Cricket or a magic eight ball or something. It is not that, so don't go there. But it is something that really within your spirit where you can sense is this right or wrong for me. So it is also not the same thing as the Holy Spirit, right? The Holy Spirit is absolute truth and is always convicting us with what is truly right and what is truly wrong and is helping to guide us. But your conscience is is something different that the Lord has given us for you personally, to help you determine hey, what is right and wrong for me and what your goal as a Christian is, is to begin to bring your personal conscience into alignment with what the Holy Spirit is prompting you and what Scripture is teaching. And that can be kind of hard to learn. I think when I woke up to the idea of the personal conscience and kind of realized, oh, this is something that is just important as a believer to begin to understand. I remember sort of being awestruck by it and feeling like, oh, that's that feeling that I get in my chest that's kind of tight and it feels kind of stress or like maybe I'm doing something wrong, or that's that feeling that, you know, whenever I'm engaging in something that maybe I shouldn't be, maybe I'm listening to a song that isn't as appropriate as some others. Or maybe I'm reading a book that I shouldn't be. And that feeling of kind of like, hey, this I don't know, this doesn't feel quite right. Um, that's what that feeling is. It's your personal conscience working at play. And so for moms, the first thing we really want them to do is just to be aware that this is something that is at play in their lives and that they are listening to, whether they realize it or not. And as we begin to navigate those daily decisions, really where this comes into play is, you know, I kind of like the example of birthday parties. I know Emily had a good example about trips, which is also sort of a personal conscience Type thing, but with birthday parties. Um, you know, some moms go all out for birthday parties and they are just the Pinterest mom. They've got the banners, the balloons, the homemade cake and all these little goodie bags. And it's just this incredible party. And then other moms are kind of like, ah, you know, birthdays are are fine. Like, you know, we might put up a little bunting and I'll serve their favorite food. This is the kind of mom I am. I'm a pretty low key birthday mom. And yet sometimes when I have attended friends who have these big, beautiful birthday parties, I have kind of felt like, who am I, a good mom? Like, am I loving my kids? Well, am I serving them and I'm making them special enough? Or do I need to do better? Like right? What does God have for birthday parties? And as a mom sort of begins to explore that we see even through Scripture that, hey, that's not something that God has, you know, a definition for of like how big the party needs to be, how much money to spend, what colors to have. Like, even though moms can sort of be looking for that, right? That's what they want. That's our formula that we want, but that's not in God's Word. But what is in God's Word is a theology of celebration and a theology of saying, hey, we want to celebrate and love others well, and that remembrance is a good thing. And so as a mom, I can start to see some of those items and line them up and then see where my personal conscience plays in of saying, okay, well, I'm a mom, that I'm not very good at Pinterest crafts, and I'm actually not a great baker, and I'd probably prefer to buy the cake and we can begin to see that, hey, that's where my conscience lies on these things, and that I can listen to that, and I can walk in freedom in that and not feel the pressure or feel shame, because maybe I'm not throwing birthday parties the same way another mom is doing. And so that's where kind of our conscience comes into play. But one thing is, what if we begin to feel like the mom who throws big parties is doing something wrong? Like maybe she's spending too much money, or we begin to judge her and think, hey, I don't agree with this idea that she has about birthday parties And there we can remember, too, that God is leading her in her conscience, and that we can trust that maybe our conscience might lead us somewhere different. But that she is is following the spirit and following her conscience, and that either way, we can kind of walk in freedom in where God is leading us.
Emily. Moms are constantly making decisions, big and small. You have a set of biblical questions for decision making. Could you share these questions and maybe just a little explanation of them?
Sure. This was something Laura and I really were trying to uncover when we were talking about how does God's Word apply to our lives? And so these questions have been really helpful to us as we're thinking through some of these gray area decisions, areas of personal conscience where we have a lot of freedom as parents to choose different things and still be walking with the Lord. So the first question is, is the cost to me or our family worth it? You know, this is really that counting the cost principle. And we know that cost isn't always just monetary. Sometimes cost is also time. One example of this might be thinking through something like, hey, we're going to sign up for a certain sport activity. And yes, there's going to be some financial cost, but also like there may be costs to our family dinners, there might be costs to bedtimes, there might be additional tension or stress on our schedule and just really making sure beforehand, as much as we can, that we have talked about those things, we've evaluated those things, and we're really going in eyes wide open and knowing that like, hey, is this something that the end result is something that we think is still worth it? Another question we would encourage moms to ask is, how does this align with our circumstances and values? So we've already talked a little bit about accepting our what is not just our what ifs. And so really trying to say, okay, does this decision that we're making fit within the context of our family? Just like Laura, I also have a child with disabilities, and that shapes our decisions in many, many cases. And that's a good thing to consider. And even with our values, you know, I think sometimes as Christian parents, we say like, God is my highest priority. He's my greatest love. But we live as if something else is our greatest value and our greatest priority. So it's good to to ask those questions of our decisions, to say, what type of value is this aligning with? The third question is how permanent is this decision, right? Like some decisions, we don't have to make that big of a deal about because they're pretty easy to shift and to change, like the decision of whether or not we should have frozen pizza tonight. To me, like, isn't that big of a decision because it's just going to be one meal. And then if tomorrow I want to pick something different, I can absolutely very quickly pivot from that. But there are other decisions we make for our families. that one we can't get out of quickly or easily. Two, we don't want to just, you know, quit. There's some period of time that we need to sort of like walk in this or live this out. And some are more permanent, right? They are more life changing. So things like, hey, are we going to make a move from one location to another? Those types of things might really impact our children in a different way. So those are going to hold a different weight, or maybe take a different amount of time than a very temporal decision. And then finally the question is, can I be transparent about this decision? And this is kind of a really interesting one, because I think sometimes within our families, we maybe know where we're leaning towards doing something that maybe isn't the best or doesn't align with our values. And we kind of just like, want to be able to do that privately and not have other believers like, look into that and be able to ask us good questions and like, challenge our motives. And so certainly we do not owe anyone an explanation of what we do.
We are.
As Christians, going to make decisions sometimes that other people do not understand. And that is okay. We answer to the Lord. But I also think there is this beauty of being able to make decisions as a married couple, that we feel like we can walk in the light in those decisions, and we're not sort of like trying to hide it or downplay it in front of others whom we respect. So those are just some questions we would encourage moms to ask. And we feel like, you know, there's going to be different answers at different times, but that can at least help the process.
Yeah, really practical questions, to be sure. Laura, would you talk a bit about mom guilt? We've mentioned it earlier, but what is it and what's the antidote?
Mm. Mom. Guilt. What is it? It's something we feel all the time. Um, this really is just that feeling in your chest or in your gut where you just feel like, hey, I have done something wrong. I have failed my children. I failed my husband, I failed my skills as a homemaker, as a working mom. Whatever it is, it is just that feeling in your chest of perhaps some shame, anxiety, worry, and just not measuring up. And this is something that when we did a Risen Motherhood survey, we do a survey nearly every year and we had 10,000 moms participate, and 97% of them said that they live with a fairly consistent feeling of mom guilt. The first thing I wanted to know was, okay, where are those 3% and what are they doing? Right? Because we need to know them. But also it's just it really proves this point, that this is a very common feeling for moms universally. And the great news of the gospel is that it is something that we don't have to live with. And so what we encourage moms to do, really, is to take out that guilt. Because a lot of times what we want to do is we want to stuff it down, we want to ignore it. We want to act like it's not there, but instead to take up that guilt and to hold it up against the lens of the gospel and to ask, hey, is this something that I have genuinely sinned in, where I have done something wrong? Maybe it's yelling at your kids or losing patience in the morning before school, or maybe it's watching something you shouldn't have on the TV. And so there's genuine sin. And there what you can do is you repent of the sin, and then you get to walk in freedom because Christ paid for that sin on the cross. And it's not something that hangs over you, but there is grace for that. And so that that's the first thing to do is, is there genuine sin under this guilt? And once you deal with it, that guilt is erased and gone because of Christ. But then the other side is maybe you're saying, okay, no, I don't think there was any sin there. I think it's because I didn't feed my kids as much organic food as I really felt like I should have, or I think it's because today, you know, I didn't go on a walk, and I've been trying to walk every day. That's one of my New Year's goals, and I just didn't have time and didn't get the walk in. But I'm feeling some guilt about that, whatever it is. And we realize, okay, this isn't sin. Well then you say, okay, but that's something that, like culture has placed on me. Maybe saying only organic food for children or only whatever type of food. And so we're taking a cultural construct, we're applying it to our motherhood, and we're adding a moral value to it. And then therefore, we're feeling guilt when we don't measure up. And so you can take that and say, okay, nope, this is what culture is telling me to do. Or this is kind of just a personal goal, but it doesn't have a moral value, so I don't have to feel guilt over it. I can try again the next day. I can try something new. I can tomorrow say, okay, yep, these are the kind of things that I want to do as a mom and the kind of mom that I want to be, but we don't have to feel guilt over it because it's not something that is morally good or morally bad, or something that God has called us to within his original design and plan. And so I think that's the great news of the gospel, is that, yes, so many of us moms struggle with mom guilt, but there is so much freedom when we bring it to the cross and we look at it and we start to deal with it.
Well, Emily, as we come to the end of our time today, disagreements among moms, it's inevitable, you know, especially when methods differ. What are some practical ways we can show grace and love to other moms, even when we don't agree necessarily with how they're parenting?
Absolutely. You know, the great thing is that in Christ, we are unified under one gospel with one spirit. And I think it's it is discouraging when we see moms who are even Christian moms who are fighting with one another and who are disagreeing. And, you know, one thing we encourage moms to do is to be just patient with one another, to be curious and ask questions of other moms. I think over the years, especially at risen motherhood, time and time again, I have just been really amazed when I've heard another mom's story and been like, wow, I didn't know that those were the types of challenges you were facing. Or wow, I've never lived in that culture or that context before, and I didn't know that that was a thing, or I didn't know that those were some things you're facing where you live. But I don't have those same challenges where I live. And so sometimes when you're asking questions of other moms, you find out that the decisions that they're making actually make a lot of sense for them where they're at. And you can see, yeah, I guess if that was my situation, I would have, you know, stronger convictions about that or that might bother me a little bit more. And then finally, like, I think if there are things that you just can't agree with, that's okay. We can still pray for those moms. You don't have to be absolutely best friends with everyone, but we can treat others with kindness and charity and respect regardless of whether we agree with them. And particularly, I think this is a good challenge for moms of when you're talking with your friends who you do agree with, be cautious of, like how you speak of another mom, or even just like a blanket, sort of like stereotype decision of moms who choose this type of schooling, or moms who work or moms who don't work. And we can just really be unkind and negative and overgeneralize when actually, like every mom is a unique and different and that the challenges they're facing and the questions they're asking are different. And so just to be generous and loving in the midst of that, and I think that's something that would just benefit the church at large so much.
If.
We could focus on loving one another.
Well, that's a good word to close on. I want to thank you both, Emily and Laura, for being with us today. It's been very exciting, the conversation, and I think this book is going to help a lot of mothers out there, and I would encourage the dads to read it too. Okay. So thanks for being with us today and may he continue to give you wisdom in your ministry.
Thanks.
Thank you for having us.
Again, the title of our resource today, Gospel Mom How to Make Biblical Decisions and Discover the Mom God Created You to Be. Emily Jensen and Laura Wiffler have been with us. You can find out more at building relationships.us. Again, go to building relationships.us.
And next week I'm going to take your calls and questions about the love languages and relationship struggles.
Don't miss our Post-thanksgiving edition of Dear Gary and if you have a question, call our listener line now at 1866424. Gary. Our thanks to Janice backing and Steve Wick for their work behind the scenes. Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.
Thanks for listening.