All right, everybody, welcome. I have been doing. This is my fourth career crisis call. And if you are like, wait, this is a career crisis call, just stay with me. Just look at me, don't look at anybody else. Don't Forget what I said yesterday. Forget what I called it a couple of days. Forget what it Forget it, forget she's gone now, the woman who invented it, she's a new person.

All right, everybody, welcome. I have been doing. This is my fourth career crisis call. And if you are like, wait, this is a career crisis call, just stay with me. Just look at me, don't look at anybody else. Don't Forget what I said yesterday. Forget what I called it a couple of days. Forget what it Forget it, forget she's gone now, the woman who invented it, she's a new person.

Now.

Now.

We reinvent ourselves. We do things before you know they're perfect, just to get them done. And yeah, so this is a career crisis call. I am Mandy Witch of Santo's Career Coach, hosted the Brown Ambition podcast and I'm so lucky to be joined by the brilliant Oh I'm just getting to know you, but I just feel like you have the best vibe already. It's crazy how well you can tell just from the internet, like digitally, but cozy sweater, cozy knit and a cozy personality. It's just hello, It's Emily Escival. Everybody, Hi, thank you, thank you, well welcome, thank you, thank you for coming in your time of need. So I understand recently you after you said decade you've been working as a therapist and you just launched your own practice.

We reinvent ourselves. We do things before you know they're perfect, just to get them done. And yeah, so this is a career crisis call. I am Mandy Witch of Santo's Career Coach, hosted the Brown Ambition podcast and I'm so lucky to be joined by the brilliant Oh I'm just getting to know you, but I just feel like you have the best vibe already. It's crazy how well you can tell just from the internet, like digitally, but cozy sweater, cozy knit and a cozy personality. It's just hello, It's Emily Escival. Everybody, Hi, thank you, thank you, well welcome, thank you, thank you for coming in your time of need. So I understand recently you after you said decade you've been working as a therapist and you just launched your own practice.

Yeah, so like wrapping my head around that. It feels weird too, even though it's something I always wanted. It feels weird to finally be like, I'm the CEO of my own private practice.

Yeah, so like wrapping my head around that. It feels weird too, even though it's something I always wanted. It feels weird to finally be like, I'm the CEO of my own private practice.

Wasn't it that? It's like that thing? I think I might have girl bosst a little too close to the.

Wasn't it that? It's like that thing? I think I might have girl bosst a little too close to the.

Sun right exactly.

Sun right exactly.

Yeah, I think that's so relatable. I mean, I know that you mentioned imposter syndrome in your in your message, just like I started a business, but now it's like, oh I wake up and I'm a business owner. I don't have a paycheck.

Yeah, I think that's so relatable. I mean, I know that you mentioned imposter syndrome in your in your message, just like I started a business, but now it's like, oh I wake up and I'm a business owner. I don't have a paycheck.

That's so real.

That's so real.

I think that that like hit me in a way I didn't want it to.

I think that that like hit me in a way I didn't want it to.

When you said, well tell me when you say that you're yeah that you've just launched your practice. What was that transition period?

When you said, well tell me when you say that you're yeah that you've just launched your practice. What was that transition period?

Light?

Light?

At what point did you decide? Was it like a long term plan that you've said in motion or was it like you hit your f you, which I don't imagine you've ever said f you to anybody because you're a delight. I'm ratchet, so I have mostly at my dog. But anyway, you probably thought it out and didn't like quit in one fell swoop. But please let me know a little bit about you first.

At what point did you decide? Was it like a long term plan that you've said in motion or was it like you hit your f you, which I don't imagine you've ever said f you to anybody because you're a delight. I'm ratchet, so I have mostly at my dog. But anyway, you probably thought it out and didn't like quit in one fell swoop. But please let me know a little bit about you first.

Yeah, I mean I wish it was more thought out than it was, but life happens, and like you said, we do things imperfectly and we figure it out as we go along.

Yeah, I mean I wish it was more thought out than it was, but life happens, and like you said, we do things imperfectly and we figure it out as we go along.

Yeah, and we pretend like it was it was a grand plan.

Yeah, and we pretend like it was it was a grand plan.

Right, And like going through school, it was always the plan for me. I always kind of like joked, I'll be in my own boss one day, like I'm gonna I'm gonna like.

Right, And like going through school, it was always the plan for me. I always kind of like joked, I'll be in my own boss one day, like I'm gonna I'm gonna like.

Own my own thing.

Own my own thing.

And it's not that weird in the practice in the therapy world, right, everyone everyone owns a private practice. I shouldn't say that, but lots of people own a private practice so they can do their own thing. So it was always sort of this thing in my head that I would do that one day so I could have freedom. And then I went through one really terrible job where I did come. I think it was summer of twenty twenty when we had all had it and I had had it at this predominantly white organization, and that was my first sort of I can't function in work environments like this. You'd like to think we're all therapists. We're all better people.

And it's not that weird in the practice in the therapy world, right, everyone everyone owns a private practice. I shouldn't say that, but lots of people own a private practice so they can do their own thing. So it was always sort of this thing in my head that I would do that one day so I could have freedom. And then I went through one really terrible job where I did come. I think it was summer of twenty twenty when we had all had it and I had had it at this predominantly white organization, and that was my first sort of I can't function in work environments like this. You'd like to think we're all therapists. We're all better people.

Not the case that can tell me what.

Not the case that can tell me what.

The gender makeup is. Emily of an office like that, what was the gender kind of split?

The gender makeup is. Emily of an office like that, what was the gender kind of split?

It was predominantly female one mile.

It was predominantly female one mile.

I am shocked. I am stunned. Can't you see how surprised me? You had a toxic work environment full of white women.

I am shocked. I am stunned. Can't you see how surprised me? You had a toxic work environment full of white women.

I mean, I was gonna say, but you said it.

I mean, I was gonna say, but you said it.

You said it.

You said it.

I'm allowed because I work for myself, like I worked for myself and I exist in the world. I'm and immediately I think about that profession being one that is so heavily can heavily skew white and female and you know what, and no shape, because I think like service industries in general, like look at school teachers, you know. But yikes, Okay, so you weren't loving it.

I'm allowed because I work for myself, like I worked for myself and I exist in the world. I'm and immediately I think about that profession being one that is so heavily can heavily skew white and female and you know what, and no shape, because I think like service industries in general, like look at school teachers, you know. But yikes, Okay, so you weren't loving it.

Wasn't loving it.

Wasn't loving it.

I made the move, went to a better One of my friends says, out of the frying pan, into the fryar, into the fire.

I made the move, went to a better One of my friends says, out of the frying pan, into the fryar, into the fire.

What's that saying?

What's that saying?

What you meant?

What you meant?

Well, it's a better situation I moved into, but still not the best.

Well, it's a better situation I moved into, but still not the best.

Okay.

Okay.

So I moved in to a group private practice where it was getting paid a lot more, which makes a difference.

So I moved in to a group private practice where it was getting paid a lot more, which makes a difference.

What's the difference between a group practice and what you were doing before that?

What's the difference between a group practice and what you were doing before that?

It was also a group practice.

It was also a group practice.

Sorry, okay, another group practice. So that's where a bunch of therapists you kind of get together, you share resources, but you probably bring your own clients, right.

Sorry, okay, another group practice. So that's where a bunch of therapists you kind of get together, you share resources, but you probably bring your own clients, right.

I did share resources?

I did share resources?

Ah yeah, okay, okay ideally yes, yes, yes, yes, gotcha.

Ah yeah, okay, okay ideally yes, yes, yes, yes, gotcha.

So I came to this new practice and I was there. I was pretty content for a while, and then life happens, money started getting tighter, you know, a few extenuating circumstances with family. I ended up losing my dad in twenty twenty three, and and that really just you know, death will like click something in very quickly for you when it happens.

So I came to this new practice and I was there. I was pretty content for a while, and then life happens, money started getting tighter, you know, a few extenuating circumstances with family. I ended up losing my dad in twenty twenty three, and and that really just you know, death will like click something in very quickly for you when it happens.

And so when I.

And so when I.

Lost my d I was like, I don't want.

Lost my d I was like, I don't want.

To work for people anymore.

To work for people anymore.

Like I don't want to be bound to like submitting PTO and people telling me I.

Like I don't want to be bound to like submitting PTO and people telling me I.

Can and can't do X y Z.

Can and can't do X y Z.

Like I want to be able to just like live my life freely on my own terms, which back to ten years ago was always the goal, right And gratefully, he left me some money and I used that money to say, like, okay, this is it. I don't really have an excuse anymore. He passed in twenty twenty three, in the fall of twenty twenty three, and it was like a year later, so like last end of summer, early fall that last year that I finally said, okay, like I'm not out of the grieving process, but I got to move, like we got to start kind of doing things.

Like I want to be able to just like live my life freely on my own terms, which back to ten years ago was always the goal, right And gratefully, he left me some money and I used that money to say, like, okay, this is it. I don't really have an excuse anymore. He passed in twenty twenty three, in the fall of twenty twenty three, and it was like a year later, so like last end of summer, early fall that last year that I finally said, okay, like I'm not out of the grieving process, but I got to move, like we got to start kind of doing things.

You tell me if I'm wrong, But I would feel a bit of pressure to do really great because you're using the money that you know your dad set aside. So it's money has like this emotional connection to it, and you've got such a huge one. Do you feel like as part of your Yeah, how do you how do you feel about that?

You tell me if I'm wrong, But I would feel a bit of pressure to do really great because you're using the money that you know your dad set aside. So it's money has like this emotional connection to it, and you've got such a huge one. Do you feel like as part of your Yeah, how do you how do you feel about that?

Do you agree money has such a huge just like you said, emotional tie to it, And there is this like I want to do well. I want to do right by him. I don't think I could ever do wrong by him, But there's the internal pressure of like, use.

Do you agree money has such a huge just like you said, emotional tie to it, And there is this like I want to do well. I want to do right by him. I don't think I could ever do wrong by him, But there's the internal pressure of like, use.

This finite resource.

This finite resource.

And make it grow and make it into this beautiful thing.

And make it grow and make it into this beautiful thing.

And it's like, Okay, that's a lot.

And it's like, Okay, that's a lot.

I have a lot of pressure for any one person, and I don't. I don't.

I have a lot of pressure for any one person, and I don't. I don't.

You don't have to say how much, but can you give me a sense of like how many months worth of savings you had or have and how how many months do you have left before things? You know? Is that a concern?

You don't have to say how much, but can you give me a sense of like how many months worth of savings you had or have and how how many months do you have left before things? You know? Is that a concern?

It's not a concern, you know, because they have my my revenue.

It's not a concern, you know, because they have my my revenue.

I have my work for my job.

I have my work for my job.

But oh good. I mean, I can't assume when you start a business, I can't assume that you're actually making money. But I'm glad to hear it.

But oh good. I mean, I can't assume when you start a business, I can't assume that you're actually making money. But I'm glad to hear it.

That's good, that's real.

That's good, that's real.

Aahn.

Aahn.

Okay, you know, probably a couple of months at least left, and we used a big portion of it to do all the business startup be stuff.

Okay, you know, probably a couple of months at least left, and we used a big portion of it to do all the business startup be stuff.

So who's we My wife and I. That's there. Yeah, end of last.

So who's we My wife and I. That's there. Yeah, end of last.

Yeah, end of us about six months. Then when we say six sevenish months, almost going on a year, Okay, tell me a little bit about what it's been, like, how has business been, and how you mentioned revenue? How are you doing revenue wise?

Yeah, end of us about six months. Then when we say six sevenish months, almost going on a year, Okay, tell me a little bit about what it's been, like, how has business been, and how you mentioned revenue? How are you doing revenue wise?

It's scary being on your own.

It's scary being on your own.

I feel like everyone talks about opening a private practice, and like in school, all of your teachers or all my teachers has had their own practice, Like nobody tells you how to do it.

I feel like everyone talks about opening a private practice, and like in school, all of your teachers or all my teachers has had their own practice, Like nobody tells you how to do it.

Nobody's like, oh and here's the plan.

Nobody's like, oh and here's the plan.

That's astounding. It's so common, it's.

That's astounding. It's so common, it's.

So common, but I feel like there's a lot of gatekeeping, whether intentionally or not, about like how to how to do it, and especially for a little brown person who's just like I don't know what. I've never run a business.

So common, but I feel like there's a lot of gatekeeping, whether intentionally or not, about like how to how to do it, and especially for a little brown person who's just like I don't know what. I've never run a business.

From Emily. I'm cute as the button. I don't stress.

From Emily. I'm cute as the button. I don't stress.

I try to give that.

I try to give that.

I'll put you in my pocket, not to infantilize. Is that infantilize you?

I'll put you in my pocket, not to infantilize. Is that infantilize you?

Okay?

Okay?

If you were in a Shondaland series, I would root for you. You know, I would absolutely root for you. It's all I'm saying. You can't teach it. You can't teach it, Okay, Okay, be serious, lady. Because we use humor as a coping Meaca, that's why we have the same language. We'll never get anything done, Emily. We're both just laughing as the world is burning.

If you were in a Shondaland series, I would root for you. You know, I would absolutely root for you. It's all I'm saying. You can't teach it. You can't teach it, Okay, Okay, be serious, lady. Because we use humor as a coping Meaca, that's why we have the same language. We'll never get anything done, Emily. We're both just laughing as the world is burning.

What else are we gonna do? Be honest?

What else are we gonna do? Be honest?

Right, stay lovey Okay, all right, we gotta get our ship. This is what we gotta do. Gotta get our ship together. Okay. Because your wife deserves date nights, and you know, whatever you guys do with your time, you deserve nice things. You deserve time off, et cetera. But yes, absolutely it is. I'm current, I'm a solopreneur. I totally get it. So one of the first things that I did as a solopreneur was set a monthly income goal, monthly revenue goal rather with my financial planner. And that can be quite intimidating. But do you have a sense of like how much you need to be bringing in month after month to sort of keep the lights on?

Right, stay lovey Okay, all right, we gotta get our ship. This is what we gotta do. Gotta get our ship together. Okay. Because your wife deserves date nights, and you know, whatever you guys do with your time, you deserve nice things. You deserve time off, et cetera. But yes, absolutely it is. I'm current, I'm a solopreneur. I totally get it. So one of the first things that I did as a solopreneur was set a monthly income goal, monthly revenue goal rather with my financial planner. And that can be quite intimidating. But do you have a sense of like how much you need to be bringing in month after month to sort of keep the lights on?

I do, and we're hitting that. I should say, like, what feels hard and what I would appreciate coaching on is I want to build a like ethical sustainable group practice. Right I know what it's like to be in ones that are not and don't have the therapists in mind. But so right now what I'm doing is like I'm working.

I do, and we're hitting that. I should say, like, what feels hard and what I would appreciate coaching on is I want to build a like ethical sustainable group practice. Right I know what it's like to be in ones that are not and don't have the therapists in mind. But so right now what I'm doing is like I'm working.

With a business coach.

With a business coach.

I just built out an offer, like a high ticket offer, because I've hit my ceiling with individual clients. I'm like, I can only see so many before I've got nothing left in the tank. So we've I built out this high ticket offer and I'm already like. The reason I did it was so I could make more money to be able to build a foundation to bring on new therapists without having to like take all of their money from them to run my business.

I just built out an offer, like a high ticket offer, because I've hit my ceiling with individual clients. I'm like, I can only see so many before I've got nothing left in the tank. So we've I built out this high ticket offer and I'm already like. The reason I did it was so I could make more money to be able to build a foundation to bring on new therapists without having to like take all of their money from them to run my business.

Because that's the typical model for a group practice.

Because that's the typical model for a group practice.

Typical model is like I will hire you, but then I'm going to take this cut, this pretty significant cut, so that I can run my business and make.

Typical model is like I will hire you, but then I'm going to take this cut, this pretty significant cut, so that I can run my business and make.

A profit, and I'll leave you with a little bit.

A profit, and I'll leave you with a little bit.

Makeake some snacks in the kitchen.

Makeake some snacks in the kitchen.

Yeah, exactly, watercore egg. And they're not telling you, like.

Yeah, exactly, watercore egg. And they're not telling you, like.

What is that percentage? Typically I'm curious, So it can be you've experienced.

What is that percentage? Typically I'm curious, So it can be you've experienced.

It can be sixty forty.

It can be sixty forty.

It can be said to them sixty to them, forty to.

It can be said to them sixty to them, forty to.

You seventy thirty and really dire dire situations.

You seventy thirty and really dire dire situations.

But it is bad.

But it is bad.

It's bad, and I don't feel it's fair and I don't feel it's ethical. And so what I want to do is build something different. I want to build a place where therapists wants to come stay and go home with their money. Like I just want to be in community with some therapists and have like this sort of mutual aid type thing happening.

It's bad, and I don't feel it's fair and I don't feel it's ethical. And so what I want to do is build something different. I want to build a place where therapists wants to come stay and go home with their money. Like I just want to be in community with some therapists and have like this sort of mutual aid type thing happening.

So I built this high ticket offer with the help of a business coach, and.

So I built this high ticket offer with the help of a business coach, and.

I'm already like, well, I put it out in the world.

I'm already like, well, I put it out in the world.

And that was maybe a month ago.

And that was maybe a month ago.

Nobody bought it, therefore nobody wants it ever, And I'm already just like walking it back of like, there's no way you're ever gonna have this model that everyone is telling you you literally cannot have because it's not feasible.

Nobody bought it, therefore nobody wants it ever, And I'm already just like walking it back of like, there's no way you're ever gonna have this model that everyone is telling you you literally cannot have because it's not feasible.

Because no one found supporting the practitioners and you make money from the tangential like other revenue stream.

Because no one found supporting the practitioners and you make money from the tangential like other revenue stream.

Right, everyone is like, Nope, it's just always done like this. You have to take them any from the therapists to run the business. And I'm like, just because it was always done that way doesn't mean we have to like keep doing.

Right, everyone is like, Nope, it's just always done like this. You have to take them any from the therapists to run the business. And I'm like, just because it was always done that way doesn't mean we have to like keep doing.

It that way.

It that way.

Yeah, but a lot of people's bottom lines if you start doing it this way, what's going to happen to Sally Sue Private you know, ink or whatever? Like, Yeah, you kind of have to at a certain point when you're an entrepreneur, you do, especially if you're someone who's trying to go a different direction to a certain extent, as long as you understand the challenges and you understand that there's headwinds, and you understand that the marketplace hasn't seen it before, and you kind of get that you don't necessarily need a bunch of other people to tell you how impossible it is. And at that point, it's like weed out anyone who's not on board and laser focus on people who are going to be and then type vibe not but them, but and okay, and how are we fixed that or and how could we figure that out? So I'm glad you found a business coach. Tell me about the offer. You say, high ticket, high ticket. I'm thinking like five ten thousand dollars.

Yeah, but a lot of people's bottom lines if you start doing it this way, what's going to happen to Sally Sue Private you know, ink or whatever? Like, Yeah, you kind of have to at a certain point when you're an entrepreneur, you do, especially if you're someone who's trying to go a different direction to a certain extent, as long as you understand the challenges and you understand that there's headwinds, and you understand that the marketplace hasn't seen it before, and you kind of get that you don't necessarily need a bunch of other people to tell you how impossible it is. And at that point, it's like weed out anyone who's not on board and laser focus on people who are going to be and then type vibe not but them, but and okay, and how are we fixed that or and how could we figure that out? So I'm glad you found a business coach. Tell me about the offer. You say, high ticket, high ticket. I'm thinking like five ten thousand dollars.

Okay, it's two thousand and nine nine seven, so three parkers.

Okay, it's two thousand and nine nine seven, so three parkers.

Hey, I do what the business coach tells me.

Hey, I do what the business coach tells me.

Okay, I want to know when you say you put it into the world, what did what did that mean?

Okay, I want to know when you say you put it into the world, what did what did that mean?

I posted it like on LinkedIn, I shared it with some colleagues. I shared it with a few people around me. And our homework is to get one hundred like eyes on it and before we get to like change what we're doing, before you get to say this didn't work, you need one hundred people to like get their eyes on it. But so I got it out to a couple of handful of people, like five literally five over ten, but not nearly one hundred.

I posted it like on LinkedIn, I shared it with some colleagues. I shared it with a few people around me. And our homework is to get one hundred like eyes on it and before we get to like change what we're doing, before you get to say this didn't work, you need one hundred people to like get their eyes on it. But so I got it out to a couple of handful of people, like five literally five over ten, but not nearly one hundred.

You got it to tens of people, not even tense. You got it to fives of peoples.

You got it to tens of people, not even tense. You got it to fives of peoples.

That's more accurate, okay, But.

That's more accurate, okay, But.

And nobody has said no, I mean, no one has signed up for it. But the most common feedback I get is that it's too high ticket, and so I just end up spiraling right of, like.

And nobody has said no, I mean, no one has signed up for it. But the most common feedback I get is that it's too high ticket, and so I just end up spiraling right of, like.

Well, have you talked to people one on one about it? Like do you email? How do you have a sales call with them? What's the funnel?

Well, have you talked to people one on one about it? Like do you email? How do you have a sales call with them? What's the funnel?

Couple of people? So I've sent it, I will get feedback like the email or hop and or hop on a call to talk through it further.

Couple of people? So I've sent it, I will get feedback like the email or hop and or hop on a call to talk through it further.

Okay, So that's kind of the setup right now.

Okay, So that's kind of the setup right now.

And a couple of people. So you've said, I don't I'm not mad at the numbers. I don't want to, you know, be not trying to be condescending, but you so, like, say ten people. Of those ten, how many converted to like a sales call opportunity?

And a couple of people. So you've said, I don't I'm not mad at the numbers. I don't want to, you know, be not trying to be condescending, but you so, like, say ten people. Of those ten, how many converted to like a sales call opportunity?

Like I've four?

Like I've four?

Okay, okay, so about half? Like that's that's I think a decent rate to get people on the phone. I mean, a funnel is a funnel, Like you're obviously going to have more people that look at your offer and say not for me than people who say this is for me your goal and I can get into this. As far as your business coach, I'm curious how much work before you launched the offer was spent on really defining your target customer and your and their main problems and goals that you could be solving. Yeah, question, I know it was a question.

Okay, okay, so about half? Like that's that's I think a decent rate to get people on the phone. I mean, a funnel is a funnel, Like you're obviously going to have more people that look at your offer and say not for me than people who say this is for me your goal and I can get into this. As far as your business coach, I'm curious how much work before you launched the offer was spent on really defining your target customer and your and their main problems and goals that you could be solving. Yeah, question, I know it was a question.

I was figuring out how to answer.

I was figuring out how to answer.

It, honestly, what's my Honestly, I was probably supposed to spend a lot more time than I spent on like really getting into the weeds of an ideal client. I went with queer BIPOC millennials because that's why I work with. What comes up in our work is finances trauma around money, and so the high ticket offer is around going deeper.

It, honestly, what's my Honestly, I was probably supposed to spend a lot more time than I spent on like really getting into the weeds of an ideal client. I went with queer BIPOC millennials because that's why I work with. What comes up in our work is finances trauma around money, and so the high ticket offer is around going deeper.

Uh, with a lot of money trauma.

Uh, with a lot of money trauma.

Oh, so your target audience is is clients like patience.

Oh, so your target audience is is clients like patience.

Oh, it doesn't have to be, but it's people who want to be curious about like their relationship with money.

Oh, it doesn't have to be, but it's people who want to be curious about like their relationship with money.

What what.

What what.

I filled in a story for myself that you were because you wanted to launch the foundation and hire practitioners. I told myself that you were, you know, launching and offering for practitioners to help. Oh, so but that's that's very different. Okay. So you're offering a tell me the name of the offer that you have.

I filled in a story for myself that you were because you wanted to launch the foundation and hire practitioners. I told myself that you were, you know, launching and offering for practitioners to help. Oh, so but that's that's very different. Okay. So you're offering a tell me the name of the offer that you have.

It's just a VIP day offer, and it's about out going deeper with your relationship with money, understanding your relationship with money, why we spend the way we spend, why we keep coming up short, and then creating a sustainable budget and sticking to that budget for a year.

It's just a VIP day offer, and it's about out going deeper with your relationship with money, understanding your relationship with money, why we spend the way we spend, why we keep coming up short, and then creating a sustainable budget and sticking to that budget for a year.

So I'm having like the height.

So I'm having like the height.

And your financial therapist. Is that your niche?

And your financial therapist. Is that your niche?

It's where I am niche now?

It's where I am niche now?

Okay, Okay, So, through yeah, a lot of experience, I've just started to be like this is.

Okay, Okay, So, through yeah, a lot of experience, I've just started to be like this is.

This excites me? I like talking about people talking to.

This excites me? I like talking about people talking to.

People about their relationship with money and trauma with money, and then.

People about their relationship with money and trauma with money, and then.

And then how to build sustainable systems.

And then how to build sustainable systems.

Gotcha? Well, I first want to point out I'm really happy that you have. You are meeting your target monthly revenue goal, you're keeping the lights on wife's you're happy, like you have bigger goals, right, But I think you sort of need to use this time and treat it as a test. You're just testing your learning, Okay, and I think this was a first test, right, But as far as like wanting it to succeed, of course we do. But it makes sense to me that if you're starting with a high ticket offer to start with, and there wasn't a lot of time spent on defining your target customer and really like getting into their needs and crafting an offer that makes sense for them, then yeah, I can see why it might be a little challenging, you know, more so because you're creating a high ticket offer for people who are struggling with their finances in some way, and you know, and so that there's a bit of like incongruity with it, some conflict there, and so I think that that's that's what I'm feeling the other thing. But that's not to say I think there are peopeople who struggle with finances, but they will, you know, spend a Peloton or a brand new car. I don't know those people, but they're probably me and did it and there was something that appealed to them or made them feel like it was possible, whether it was a payment plan or it was just such a great offer they thought they were going to make that money back where they could see how it was a clear investment to spend three thousand dollars, which is the cost of like a really nice appliance you're gonna want to get. You're gonna want to know that it can keep your vegetables frozen and it can keep your milk cold, you know, like you want to know that I'm going to be investing this is a fair amount of money into something that's going to be a value. And that's our job as business owners. We have something that we need to sell to them, but it's our job to make sure that they jump at it and they really feel like, oh, this person gets me. They know what I need. This is going to solve that problem. And because in this problem, it makes sense to spend this much money to solve it because it can X Y Z. And if you know that price is price is obviously something that you know, consumers consider when they go to purchase something. But I think, first and foremost it's our job to really confidently and I'll get back to that articulate what it is that we're offering. So tell me the name of the program again. You called it It's Emily's just a VIP day.

Gotcha? Well, I first want to point out I'm really happy that you have. You are meeting your target monthly revenue goal, you're keeping the lights on wife's you're happy, like you have bigger goals, right, But I think you sort of need to use this time and treat it as a test. You're just testing your learning, Okay, and I think this was a first test, right, But as far as like wanting it to succeed, of course we do. But it makes sense to me that if you're starting with a high ticket offer to start with, and there wasn't a lot of time spent on defining your target customer and really like getting into their needs and crafting an offer that makes sense for them, then yeah, I can see why it might be a little challenging, you know, more so because you're creating a high ticket offer for people who are struggling with their finances in some way, and you know, and so that there's a bit of like incongruity with it, some conflict there, and so I think that that's that's what I'm feeling the other thing. But that's not to say I think there are peopeople who struggle with finances, but they will, you know, spend a Peloton or a brand new car. I don't know those people, but they're probably me and did it and there was something that appealed to them or made them feel like it was possible, whether it was a payment plan or it was just such a great offer they thought they were going to make that money back where they could see how it was a clear investment to spend three thousand dollars, which is the cost of like a really nice appliance you're gonna want to get. You're gonna want to know that it can keep your vegetables frozen and it can keep your milk cold, you know, like you want to know that I'm going to be investing this is a fair amount of money into something that's going to be a value. And that's our job as business owners. We have something that we need to sell to them, but it's our job to make sure that they jump at it and they really feel like, oh, this person gets me. They know what I need. This is going to solve that problem. And because in this problem, it makes sense to spend this much money to solve it because it can X Y Z. And if you know that price is price is obviously something that you know, consumers consider when they go to purchase something. But I think, first and foremost it's our job to really confidently and I'll get back to that articulate what it is that we're offering. So tell me the name of the program again. You called it It's Emily's just a VIP day.

It's VIP. Now I'm like blanking on the actual name.

It's VIP. Now I'm like blanking on the actual name.

Something about easing me a little bit because when I asked you, you said, it's just a VIP day, where so I think you should test out. Adding just to the beginning of that, I could I that don't blush. Oh my goodness, adorable human Oh man. Yeah, Like, it's the confidence thing, and if you're not believing in it, it's the same. It's the same strategy that I teach when I teach negotiating. It's part of going into a conversation about what you think you're worth. Is like, if you're confident and your vibe is like, well, duh, yes, I'm worth this and where is it at? Then the other that affects the person's decision on the other side of the table. And people don't necessarily like to hear that because it makes them start thinking, well, what if I don't have the right kind of charm or the right kind of like personality or whatever it comes across this way, work on it. You can work on it. You can build confidence, you absolutely can. And I want you to keep working on this offer until you can really fully go into a sales call knowing that I understand exactly where this person's coming from, and I can explain my product and make the sale because I'm solving their problem and you can feel really good about that. And I don't feel like you do yet.

Something about easing me a little bit because when I asked you, you said, it's just a VIP day, where so I think you should test out. Adding just to the beginning of that, I could I that don't blush. Oh my goodness, adorable human Oh man. Yeah, Like, it's the confidence thing, and if you're not believing in it, it's the same. It's the same strategy that I teach when I teach negotiating. It's part of going into a conversation about what you think you're worth. Is like, if you're confident and your vibe is like, well, duh, yes, I'm worth this and where is it at? Then the other that affects the person's decision on the other side of the table. And people don't necessarily like to hear that because it makes them start thinking, well, what if I don't have the right kind of charm or the right kind of like personality or whatever it comes across this way, work on it. You can work on it. You can build confidence, you absolutely can. And I want you to keep working on this offer until you can really fully go into a sales call knowing that I understand exactly where this person's coming from, and I can explain my product and make the sale because I'm solving their problem and you can feel really good about that. And I don't feel like you do yet.

Yeah, I definitely still I mean you pointed out right, it's just where inside I'm like, I know that this offer can bring you an understanding of your relationship with money that will have ripple effects forever.

Yeah, I definitely still I mean you pointed out right, it's just where inside I'm like, I know that this offer can bring you an understanding of your relationship with money that will have ripple effects forever.

Uh, And that's priceless. Under It's also.

Uh, And that's priceless. Under It's also.

It's also not specific, you know, Yeah, it sounds really good, but like when we talk about the language to like really get people to make a purchase or to buy into an offer, it's like, so specifically, what am I like, specifically, how will this change me? And I'm not saying that marketing is everything because obviously, like the actual program itself, it should be like I'm sure you have tons to offer in all of that, but I do think understanding the language that you use to sell the course and speak about the course when you're in conversation with somebody, you're having a sales call, even if it's just like you're on the phone with someone casually or even talking to me, like, it's it's an opportunity to practice the language around. So how much research did you do? And maybe not much, but I when I started Mandy money Makers, which is my it's not quite as high ticket as that. I think the most expensive package I sold when I first launched was eleven hundred dollars, which for me seemed like a lot. And when I launched that offer, I had spent months doing free sessions like this to figure out one did I like it? Two was I good at it? And three I didn't have an offer in mind. I wanted to download all the women, and I chose my target audience, which are women of color, millennial to gen Z and I listened and I listened, and I sort of did a lot of analyzing transcripts or taking my notes from sessions and coming up with like what I could tell were the main pain points that they were dealing with, and when I went to create the offer, I created the offer. I'm glad to hear that you're targeting your patient or people like your patients, because you already have so much, Like you've been holding sessions for ten years, right. I think it's just a matter of like really making sure that what your offer offers solves those primary pain points and that the language you're using to talk about the offer gets that a point gets those points across like really really clearly.

It's also not specific, you know, Yeah, it sounds really good, but like when we talk about the language to like really get people to make a purchase or to buy into an offer, it's like, so specifically, what am I like, specifically, how will this change me? And I'm not saying that marketing is everything because obviously, like the actual program itself, it should be like I'm sure you have tons to offer in all of that, but I do think understanding the language that you use to sell the course and speak about the course when you're in conversation with somebody, you're having a sales call, even if it's just like you're on the phone with someone casually or even talking to me, like, it's it's an opportunity to practice the language around. So how much research did you do? And maybe not much, but I when I started Mandy money Makers, which is my it's not quite as high ticket as that. I think the most expensive package I sold when I first launched was eleven hundred dollars, which for me seemed like a lot. And when I launched that offer, I had spent months doing free sessions like this to figure out one did I like it? Two was I good at it? And three I didn't have an offer in mind. I wanted to download all the women, and I chose my target audience, which are women of color, millennial to gen Z and I listened and I listened, and I sort of did a lot of analyzing transcripts or taking my notes from sessions and coming up with like what I could tell were the main pain points that they were dealing with, and when I went to create the offer, I created the offer. I'm glad to hear that you're targeting your patient or people like your patients, because you already have so much, Like you've been holding sessions for ten years, right. I think it's just a matter of like really making sure that what your offer offers solves those primary pain points and that the language you're using to talk about the offer gets that a point gets those points across like really really clearly.

Yeah, I think arguably that's really helpful. Thank you. That feels like such a time and energy investment.

Yeah, I think arguably that's really helpful. Thank you. That feels like such a time and energy investment.

That feels so overwhelming and daunting to me that I then like psych myself out and I'm like, that's so hard.

That feels so overwhelming and daunting to me that I then like psych myself out and I'm like, that's so hard.

You know track you would take. Maybe it's not so much about you know, talking to people anew but going back to past notes and going back to I don't know if you keep transcripts or is it do therapists keep transcripts? Okay, good, I do because my brain is as sieve, and I will do control f for certain words, and then I'll go back and like, maybe it's the word impost. I'm like, how many people said imposter, how many people said boss or negotiate whatever, And I'll try to find like these common threads. So maybe it doesn't have to be like you've done a lot of that work. Maybe the answers are already there I'm imagining. But you know, you have an offer. That's great. I'm not saying to like throw it out, but there's a there is a bit disconnect between who you're trying to reach and they offer itself. Either that or the ten people that you launched it to were not your target client for whatever reason. And if that's the case, where is your target client? How old are that? You said? They're queer bipock millennials, millennials and all the like ten people that you spoke or pitched it to, they were all in that category. Okay, So maybe there's another identifying factor, or maybe that's your main funnel bucket, that's like top of the funnel. I want to make sure that this core shows up wherever queer and bipock people. I don't know if you want to narrow you some millennials, right, I want to make sure that this message, you know, reaches them where they are, and then you would you know, for example, I don't know if there's like a really famous queer BIPOC podcast like or whatever anything? Is it out magazine? That's that's the thing, right, there's a out magazine? Oh okay, yeah, well no, but but actually yes, and you have an in in a way that I would not. I'm not a queer person. I have family who's queer, but I'm not. I haven't lived that experience, you know, So you're that's your superpower and it can get you through certain doors to get to your target audience. So maybe maybe part of your work can be Okay, how do I expand my audience so that the number of people that I'm getting this offer in front of, you know, I'm getting a larger sample size than just like the eight to ten you know, So getting yourself out there is definitely one way, you know, being a guest on podcasts, talking literally showing up live and now the kind of client that is gonna make a high ticket purchase like that, In my experience, it's not going to be their first time meeting you. It's gonna be after some time warming them up, you know, nurturing, they say, nurture, you know, getting them on your list, you know, telling them about yourself, your story, your point of view, your why, and then dripping in, of course, valuable lessons that you can be teaching them if they're already getting a lot of value from you, from you know, I don't know if you have a lead magnet of some kind, do you, Oh, you don't have a lead magnet, all right, Yeah, I think it's it's just almost as if you've you've kind of started at the end of the sales process by creating the thing that you want to sell. We just got to go back to the beginning. Yeah, no big deal.

You know track you would take. Maybe it's not so much about you know, talking to people anew but going back to past notes and going back to I don't know if you keep transcripts or is it do therapists keep transcripts? Okay, good, I do because my brain is as sieve, and I will do control f for certain words, and then I'll go back and like, maybe it's the word impost. I'm like, how many people said imposter, how many people said boss or negotiate whatever, And I'll try to find like these common threads. So maybe it doesn't have to be like you've done a lot of that work. Maybe the answers are already there I'm imagining. But you know, you have an offer. That's great. I'm not saying to like throw it out, but there's a there is a bit disconnect between who you're trying to reach and they offer itself. Either that or the ten people that you launched it to were not your target client for whatever reason. And if that's the case, where is your target client? How old are that? You said? They're queer bipock millennials, millennials and all the like ten people that you spoke or pitched it to, they were all in that category. Okay, So maybe there's another identifying factor, or maybe that's your main funnel bucket, that's like top of the funnel. I want to make sure that this core shows up wherever queer and bipock people. I don't know if you want to narrow you some millennials, right, I want to make sure that this message, you know, reaches them where they are, and then you would you know, for example, I don't know if there's like a really famous queer BIPOC podcast like or whatever anything? Is it out magazine? That's that's the thing, right, there's a out magazine? Oh okay, yeah, well no, but but actually yes, and you have an in in a way that I would not. I'm not a queer person. I have family who's queer, but I'm not. I haven't lived that experience, you know, So you're that's your superpower and it can get you through certain doors to get to your target audience. So maybe maybe part of your work can be Okay, how do I expand my audience so that the number of people that I'm getting this offer in front of, you know, I'm getting a larger sample size than just like the eight to ten you know, So getting yourself out there is definitely one way, you know, being a guest on podcasts, talking literally showing up live and now the kind of client that is gonna make a high ticket purchase like that, In my experience, it's not going to be their first time meeting you. It's gonna be after some time warming them up, you know, nurturing, they say, nurture, you know, getting them on your list, you know, telling them about yourself, your story, your point of view, your why, and then dripping in, of course, valuable lessons that you can be teaching them if they're already getting a lot of value from you, from you know, I don't know if you have a lead magnet of some kind, do you, Oh, you don't have a lead magnet, all right, Yeah, I think it's it's just almost as if you've you've kind of started at the end of the sales process by creating the thing that you want to sell. We just got to go back to the beginning. Yeah, no big deal.

I have like a mindset reset, But how are people following? How are people finding it?

I have like a mindset reset, But how are people following? How are people finding it?

Right?

Right?

Like?

Like?

Yeah, what is it?

Yeah, what is it?

So it's you put in your email and then I send you this free mindset reset where I walk you through four steps of understanding your money, your relationship to money, and doing some reframing work.

So it's you put in your email and then I send you this free mindset reset where I walk you through four steps of understanding your money, your relationship to money, and doing some reframing work.

So it gets you curious about your relationship. It's for introspective questions. Uh. And then it gets you to a kind of thing. It's like a PDF. Oh, you can also preten it, but it's like a piece.

So it gets you curious about your relationship. It's for introspective questions. Uh. And then it gets you to a kind of thing. It's like a PDF. Oh, you can also preten it, but it's like a piece.

It's a lead magnet. But right, and then you got to lead people to the lead magnet.

It's a lead magnet. But right, and then you got to lead people to the lead magnet.

Right.

Right.

It can only magnet if you can like, you know, you need a track, you know, So how are you right now? Where are people encountering that at your website?

It can only magnet if you can like, you know, you need a track, you know, So how are you right now? Where are people encountering that at your website?

On my website?

On my website?

And then I'm sending it out like I just started sending it out to previous clients. The part of the coaching was like, there's already people who know, like and trust you. Why don't you send it to some of those folks? People who've worked with.

And then I'm sending it out like I just started sending it out to previous clients. The part of the coaching was like, there's already people who know, like and trust you. Why don't you send it to some of those folks? People who've worked with.

You and see what they'd even say.

You and see what they'd even say.

So right now it's really direct, like one on one people I already know and it's on our website.

So right now it's really direct, like one on one people I already know and it's on our website.

But my website well and trying, And you said earlier you reflected it back to me.

But my website well and trying, And you said earlier you reflected it back to me.

Right, it's been roughly like what six months, So I have this like outdated or not outdated. I have this like overblown proportion that I've been doing this for so long and it's like it's been six months. Of course you don't have it perfect.

Right, it's been roughly like what six months, So I have this like outdated or not outdated. I have this like overblown proportion that I've been doing this for so long and it's like it's been six months. Of course you don't have it perfect.

What are you saying?

What are you saying?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Right, that's why. I think the fact that you're making money enough to sustain yourself, like you're hitting your goal month after month, that's a huge accomplishment almost like focus on making sure that stays the same. Cause one of the things that I did with my whole master plan, which is so great, is I was two years into my business and then I was like, I'm i'll have another baby and I'm going to write a book. Two of those things are not very you know, they don't really go well with down.

Right, that's why. I think the fact that you're making money enough to sustain yourself, like you're hitting your goal month after month, that's a huge accomplishment almost like focus on making sure that stays the same. Cause one of the things that I did with my whole master plan, which is so great, is I was two years into my business and then I was like, I'm i'll have another baby and I'm going to write a book. Two of those things are not very you know, they don't really go well with down.

I'm still waiting on the book.

I'm still waiting on the book.

Well, the book's happening, but you know what's suffering while I write that book and while I am the best mama ever, it's the business stuff. I'm not making as much money. It's been stressful. So part of me is like, oh, yeah, I could have maybe planned that. I mean, I think everything happens for a reason, but I absolutely could have suffered a lot less had I just really gotten my savings more saved up, or you know, had had really like more mature roots for my business. I think statistically the first five years of a business is when most female owned businesses fail, especially run by women of color. So those first five years are really crucial. It doesn't mean that I don't want you to keep that goal in mind to launch your group practice and all of that, but you know, it's the balance between trying new things, as I think you should always be testing and learning, but then keeping your core foundation of your business that's working because you were your booking clients. That's also an area where you want to really make sure that you understand what are the pain points that a lot of therapists are feeling, and why would they want to join my practice and how can I solve their biggest problems? And I bet yes, the fact that you're not going to take seventy percent of their pay is a huge selling point, but I'm imagining stability that whatever became toxic, the gatekeeping about your other job, like you know, you can solve that problem, but be in conversations with them. And my last well, well it ask to be my last question, I'm sorry, is how many friends or close friends do you have or how how healthy is your community of other solopreneur therapists of color? All right, it's very simple community, community, community. I need you to go find your people, and your people may not be well. You're in Chicago. It's a big city, you know, like you make you have to make new friends, truly, and it's not easy because there is not so much gatekeeping. I think that sometimes we what we perceive as gatekeeping is really somebody who's embarrassed and doesn't want to let us peek behind the curtain because they're not sure of themselves. But when you when you start to slowly build trust with other people doing what you're doing, there's nothing more powerful. I think I've been aware of this other podcaster called Nikla. She has a podcast called Side Hustle Pro. I've been aware of her for years. I think over the one was this over the Christmas holidays. We finally just randomly were like, are you you struggling me too? You want to be friends and now are each other's accountability buddies. And we call once a week. And I'm not saying every relationship has to go that deep, but start planting those seeds now, because you're gonna need them when you grow for the next three, five, ten years, fifty because you look so young, so I'm a long time aheading you.

Well, the book's happening, but you know what's suffering while I write that book and while I am the best mama ever, it's the business stuff. I'm not making as much money. It's been stressful. So part of me is like, oh, yeah, I could have maybe planned that. I mean, I think everything happens for a reason, but I absolutely could have suffered a lot less had I just really gotten my savings more saved up, or you know, had had really like more mature roots for my business. I think statistically the first five years of a business is when most female owned businesses fail, especially run by women of color. So those first five years are really crucial. It doesn't mean that I don't want you to keep that goal in mind to launch your group practice and all of that, but you know, it's the balance between trying new things, as I think you should always be testing and learning, but then keeping your core foundation of your business that's working because you were your booking clients. That's also an area where you want to really make sure that you understand what are the pain points that a lot of therapists are feeling, and why would they want to join my practice and how can I solve their biggest problems? And I bet yes, the fact that you're not going to take seventy percent of their pay is a huge selling point, but I'm imagining stability that whatever became toxic, the gatekeeping about your other job, like you know, you can solve that problem, but be in conversations with them. And my last well, well it ask to be my last question, I'm sorry, is how many friends or close friends do you have or how how healthy is your community of other solopreneur therapists of color? All right, it's very simple community, community, community. I need you to go find your people, and your people may not be well. You're in Chicago. It's a big city, you know, like you make you have to make new friends, truly, and it's not easy because there is not so much gatekeeping. I think that sometimes we what we perceive as gatekeeping is really somebody who's embarrassed and doesn't want to let us peek behind the curtain because they're not sure of themselves. But when you when you start to slowly build trust with other people doing what you're doing, there's nothing more powerful. I think I've been aware of this other podcaster called Nikla. She has a podcast called Side Hustle Pro. I've been aware of her for years. I think over the one was this over the Christmas holidays. We finally just randomly were like, are you you struggling me too? You want to be friends and now are each other's accountability buddies. And we call once a week. And I'm not saying every relationship has to go that deep, but start planting those seeds now, because you're gonna need them when you grow for the next three, five, ten years, fifty because you look so young, so I'm a long time aheading you.

You are not a long time ahead of me.

You are not a long time ahead of me.

Well you know, I'm also the spring chicken. Thank you, Emily, Thanks so much. Thanks for being so great. I really hope this was helpful. Make sure that we stay connected. Ad me on LinkedIn, you know, let me know how things are going.

Well you know, I'm also the spring chicken. Thank you, Emily, Thanks so much. Thanks for being so great. I really hope this was helpful. Make sure that we stay connected. Ad me on LinkedIn, you know, let me know how things are going.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. Thank you.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. Thank you.

Likewise, thank you, bye bye

Likewise, thank you, bye bye