The New Pornographers have never been easy to pin down. Since forming in Vancouver in the late ’90s, the band became one of the defining acts of the Canadian indie rock explosion. They’re part of a scene that also produced Neko Case, Dan Bejar, and a generation of artists who seemed to operate entirely outside the commercial mainstream. Co-founders Carl Newman and Kathryn Calder have spent more than two decades making records that sound like they arrived fully formed: densely layered, relentlessly melodic, and somehow both euphoric and melancholy at the same time.

Their latest album, The Former Site Of,  draws on a different kind of raw material. Part of it came from a friend’s terminal illness and the weight of watching someone you love reckon with time running out. Part of it came from something more unexpected: the last remaining payphone in New York City, which became a kind of anchor image for the record, a physical object standing in for everything we hold onto after it stops being useful.

On today’s episode, Bruce Headlam sits down with Carl Newman and Kathryn Calder to talk about where their new album came from, what it’s like to make something beautiful out of grief, and how the Canadian music scene that shaped them still runs through everything they do.