Pushkin. The Black Keys are the last rock and roll band to really matter. I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but if you can think of another rock band that broke out this decade with songs you couldn't escape and big arena shows, let me know. When they first came out in early two thousands, their gritty blue sound was wild. You could have told me some of those songs were lost relics from the fifties, and I would have believed it. Their sound really did develop a lot by the time they hit big with songs like Tighten Up and Holland for You. Now, after a five year break, they have new music. They stopped by schanro Low to catch up with Rick Rubin the day after launching their tour in LA to talk about the new record, things in the music industry that pissed them off, and to play some unreleased songs. This is Broken Record Season three liner notes for the Digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Just a quick note here. You can listen to all of the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist, which you can find a link to in the show notes. For licensing reasons, each time a song it's referenced in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect all right. Enjoyed the episode. Here's Rick's conversation with the black Keys listening anything good? You know, I was in France for the whole month in July. How was it too long? But I found this radio station over there. It was like the most eclectic mix of music. I've heard it in a long time. What was this station called again, It's called Radio Nova. I listened to Radio Nova. Yeah, so there's there's like playlists, you can find stuff, but it's nationwide. It's structural, but it's nation It's like across the whole all France. And I mean you could listen to it live on tune in video. You can listen to it live on tune in. But I never heard of it. I've never been in France. Bunch, you've been France, A bunch of sures. I hear the same, Like, this is better music curation than I've heard anywhere on any streaming platform, on any radio station. I'm in France and I'm hearing all this American music for the first time, and it just boggled my mind. And I you know, Dan and I both have these shows on serious radio, and I mean I don't know why, because honestly, we don't get paid, and we were curating an hour of music a month or whatever, and I turn it on and I'm just perpetually let down by like what's played on the spectrum. Most of the spectrum is or XMU. It's supposed to be like kind of cutting edge channels where they're playing new music, and I heard I keep hearing you two on the spectrum. It's like, man, fuck that. And I don't get anything I want from it, and I don't even know where to look. I haven't found one thing at Pitchfork that that made me interested in probably five years. But I still check it like every couple of days. The platform doesn't exist, or if it does exist, it hasn't got to me, you know. So that's that's a major problem. I think that. Then I talked about this all the time. How do what could we do? What could our friends all do? That would be it would help prop up stuff we're interested in because I look at stuff that sounds like there's a void, the huge, massive void. Maybe that's an opportunity for you guys to do something. It is massive? Why people like people don't you know, It's like we sit around here listen music obsessed, but we let these dipshits like dictate what the fuck is being talked about, you know what I mean, Like, there's no one that knows more about music than than probably you, you know, and Dan, I mean, and what we're not, you know, we're giving our playlist to the Spectrum or XMU and at the end of the day, like they're still just playing Radiohead songs fifteen times a day, or you two songs or whatever. It's not I had a record that was really proud of that I produced and co wrote that is you know, wasn't the Keys album Always Seeing I basically, you know, asked Spectrum like consider adding this thing to their playlist, and then the fucking they, after fifty five years of volunteer service to their ass, they're like, well, the Instagram the metrics don't really add up, but I think, you know, there's a little bit of numbers. The numbers aren't there yet, Like, fuck you, motherfucker, Like, who the fuck are you to tell me what the fuck numbers are you? You were fucking communications neighbor major from Purdue, you know what I mean, Like, what are you doing there dictating this shit, man, I wouldn't like buy a fucking shirt from you, you know what I mean? Seriously, And this guy's dictating what we all listened to across the whole country. This guy, Chris Muckley, He's like dictates the whole fucking channel. It's like, who the fuck is this guy? Where did he come from? And why the fuck is hey listening to my ass. I've been in the back of a van for twenty years. Listen to me, motherfucker, I care about this ship, you know what I mean. That's like I know what Kanye was meant when he said that ship, because like I give a fuck. Yeah, I had enough Windy to fucking care. You know what I mean. I put my fucking intestines through the fucking ringer for rock and roll and roll listen to what I care about. I've always gotten the best suggestions or music to listen to from musicians, never from anyone else. It's always from artists. It's not from Instagram stats, it's not from anywhere, but art artists always. Just like I just said, what are you listening to? Chances are you're listening to something better than anyone who's telling me what to listen to Sure, I agree. Every time I've heard anything that's like change my perception, something has come from an artist, Dan, what are you angry about? Where do we start? I'm not angry, It's just it's frustrating, you know. Sure, Yeah, it's fucking frustrating. No, I feel you. It's hard to find music now, dude, I agree. How long has it been since you've toured? H five years since we tour of the US? Wow? And last night was the first show and good vibe. Yeah, it was a little We had some issues with some ticket issues, but other than that, we had some scalpers screwing our fans last night. Let's tell about royally fucked last night. Yeah. We intentionally did a show that was twenty five dollars ticket just for fans, and scalpers had tickets for eight hundred dollars. Wow. And they were fake. People were coming to the to the box office with fake tickets that they paid eight hundred dollars more. Wow. We kept the tickets cheap as possible, made the news like there are hundreds of people out in front of the wheel turn really upset. It was such a bummer because it our intention was to do one for the fans, do you know what I mean? It just sucks when it's a it's a weird fucking time out there. Because we kept the tickets cheap. Could you do another show for all the people with the fake tickets? Fuck that, I mean, honestly, fuck it. I mean, like this is the problem. I mean, we kept the tickets at twenty five dollars. It was clearly stated on the tickets that they're non transferable, and some people trying to sold them for eight hundred dollars, six hundred dollars. That's the whole that's the reason why our tickets and this concert, this tour right now, like the cheapest tickets like fifty bucks, and they go all the way up to five hundred. And the reason is because on the last tour we kept the tickets much cheaper, but they kept getting fucking scalped, and so we would go play a show, an equal amount of money that we made was made by scalpers. Scalpers are making as much money as us by fucking the fans. You know, there's a lot of issues with the music industry. And the thing is is the person that actually has to actually gets fucked the most is the fan and the artist, you know, which is ironic because it's that's the most direct natural relationship into music business. It was. It was amazing though last night. The energy was high. And what's the show like? Now? Once upon a time it was a two piece group. Yeah, what's the show like? Now it's the two of us plus three other people. We have two guitars in a bass and for the whole show, the whole show. Yeah, and we play songs from every record, you know. I mean even when we were doing two piece records, we were always overdubbing. I would I would always over to bass and second guitars and stuff, double up guitar parts. It's cool as ship now to be able to hear those old songs with like three guitars doing one riff, it's awesome. It almost sounds more like the old records than we ever did, which is kind of fun. From the first album to now, what was the progression of the band from from your perspective, Well, you've got to understand that this is not like a normal band. This is like not a normal band, you know, because like we started playing when we were sixteen seventeen, before we were a band, you know, and we were, we learned how to play together. So so you've been playing together forever whatever this was. This is the first band I've ever been in. It's incredible. I found the other day about six months ago. Probably the first jam we ever recorded. Wow, it's on my phone. I can play it for you. Let's yeah. And we always recorded ourselves because that's what was so much fun was the recording part. That's what we were into. Pat. The first time I ever saw a four track was a Pat's house. So the beginnings of the Black Keys were recording. And we got a record deal before we ever played a show, just because we were making recordings and we sent it to some labels and they gave us a deal. Yeah. Like the foundation of the band is really that we grew up. We grew up really four or five houses from each other. Dan's a year older than me, and our brothers were like best friends, older brother younger brothers. But at one point our brothers like, you guys should get together and jam, You guy should get together and jam. And one day Dan brought us guitar down to my house and I had this drum set because I bought like all the instruments. So you need to have a band, hoping that people come from my house so I could be in a band playing guitar. But Dan came down and just like started playing, like oh shit, Like I guess I'm playing drums because he's so good at guitar. So what year was this? That would like ninety six ninety seven, and we recorded I think this is one of those I'm gonna play this song. It's six minutes long. Play a snippet. I'm just gonna go six minutes. Yeah, I'm just gonna go. I'm gonna start it. I'm gonna start it a minute in. You sound exactly the same. When I heard it, I was like, holy shit, it's unbelievable. Nothing changed. It's exactly the same. Isn't that insane? That's from day one? Does it without communicating about what we were gonna do. What happened? It's like, that's literally sounded like you could have said that was us last night, and I would have believed it would be like, what is that audience? They're great, Yeah, they killed it last night. I wonder what your dad was thinking when you're like, I mean, my dad's very encouraged fucking getting out there. What the fuck were we doing? Dude, that's six minutes of us banging on prop tanks and the definitely listen to all six minutes tranced out, What the hell I rick just because I just want you to hear this one thing that we've never played this for anybody. I won't play you a second of it. Okay, this is if anything, you're getting worse. They were getting worse. There's some really weird ship on this thing. But this is our demo, right, this is the so the day that Dan I think you only ever get worse. This is the day that Dan was gonna I was gonna record his band and they never showed up, and we made this recording. This is the the first song on our demo that we sent out. The got us a record too incredible. You know what's incredible about that is this is no bullshit. We did six songs that day in an hour and a half. Yeah, and I had we had never played them together. I had never played drums in a previous year and a half. And we instantly had arrangements, instantly figured out all this shit We're gonna do drum beats. I mean, it's fucking crazy. And one I took these recordings we made, and I sat and like, make these mixes. And I remember taking the CDR over to Dan's house like a week or two weeks later, and He's called me. I left a message on my machine or something like later that day. Basically it was like, we just got to start a fucking band, Like this is fucking crazy. And I was like, yeah, we fucking do. And I called my brother as they make a cover, a record cover so we could mail this thing out, and yeah, we were ready to make a record. We named the band right then. It was incredible and we made incredible. Dan think, what should we call the band? I was like, there's a mutual friend that we had a mutual acquaintance, this outsider artist guy who used to call people black keys, Like, we gotta call it the black Keys. He's like, it's the black It was instant to boom, boom boom. Within like two weeks of doing that, we had made a demo where we made a cover we dand mailed him out to like eighteen labels, and within two weeks of that we had a record deal, the small little label in Burbank. And since that, right then, I told my dad drop out of school make this record, and my dad actually came into I was working in a restaurant. My dad came in to the restaurant with my grandfather, and my grandfather had a PhD. You mean, very educated. And I told him, as I wou'na drop out of school, My dad's you gotta oh, you shouldn't. My grandfathers like, yeah, you should do that. Give it a year or two. I was like, there you go, there we are. But yeah. So then that's the history of the band is. We made this record, the big come up in my basement. We would get together every day from like ten to three, and then I had to go to work and Dan had to go play bars. And we made this record. And then we put the record out and we learned we had to go on tour for people to hear it. And we just got in a van with my brother Mike tagged along and we we went around the country. We went out every weekend. We got all offered a Sleader Kidney tour, we offered a Beck tour, we got signed a Fat Possum. We so then around that around that first record, before we signed a Fat Possum, we kind of had we had seymour Stein coming out to our shows, and we had people kind of like really interested in this at the time of like when the White Stripes first were hit, you know, and Hives and Strokes, and we were kind of in that wave, you know, and everybody was looking for them, everyone was looking for it, and so we had we were like sitting there talking talking to Seemore stuck. Had you guys heard all that music or were you sort of just doing your own thing? Man? We had heard like do Rag all the Fat Possi some stuff. The Strokes record came out right after we made this. It came out like September after we made the demo. But no, man, we I didn't hear like the Hives or the White Stripes until fell in Love with the Girl or whatever that Hive single had in two thousand summer two thousand and two. That stuff was really going on MTV and I heard. That's what I was like, man, like this, there's a there's a wave shit happening. There's that band that kind of disappeared the Vines. Yeah, but around that time, so we were getting we were we were getting calls from seymour Stein on you know, on our waiting around the answering machine. Like this is like I remember reading the story of Divo. I think we're like living the same reality that Devo did twenty years ago in like the same city. And here here we are getting calls from seymour Stein who wanted to sign us, and he's like, we're I'm gonna send a contract your way. What's the best address we're in. He's like it's gonna be there by November one. November first came and it didn't, you know nothing, And by November I think it was like November twentieth, no contract. And I called him. He's like, I can't get anything moving, Like they're not sending it. What the fuck? And as Dan I got together, it's like, if we signed to this label, they can't even get us a contract. We're never going to make another record. We might get a couple hundred grand that we can spend on our one hundred grand or something. But it was the right move. Nothing happened with Seymark. We made the hardest decision, but it was like a no brainer for us, which is like instead of waiting around for this big check, this signed to Fat Possum for twelve thousand dollars and make a record, And so we went into my basement and we recorded a record in one day. Yeah, but I mean, honestly, Fat Possum those were our biggest Those were heros. We were trying to get on Fat Possum on the demo. Yeah, we hadn't heard of any of the Detroit bands. We didn't know of any of the I've never heard the Goriries, but we were listening to Team Model, Ford Hard, Robert Bell for r L Junior, kimbro I have to ask Latkins, you know we were going we were going to see those shows. It was it wasn't just old records and it was like real. It was Also John Spencer Explosion was a major thing. Absolutely. I got a cassette tape of Orange by the John Spencer Blues Explosion, and that really helped me understand the Black Keys better when we were starting. In fact, when I listened to that, I still think Russell Simmons one of my favorite drummers. Russell Simmons is probably one of the maybe the best living drummer. Hell yeah, yeah, I mean him and Jeremiah Green from Myst Mouse are the two best drummers rock and roll drumms a statement we'll be back with more from the Black Keys. We're back with the Black Keys. So you did the first album, did the first album, and then once we decided to sign the Fat Possi and we made a second record in a day. Instantly, I was, this is pre internet, so I was. Dan came over. We recorded this thing. The next day, I would make a mix. I would burn a CD. I would ve it over to Dan's house. I would drive home and he would come, turn the guitar down and I could do it. I go back and turn the guitar back up. I have all stack of these things all on the day. I like as boo boom and I FedEx it that night. It's like boom fed and oh my brother Mike and I went to kmart and bought some Royal Crown hair palm made took a picture of my hand dipping in it. It was like all done in a day. It's like boom rucking records done. And that's how we I was our Emma. We just fucking moved like that, you know. And we made our third record in a rubber factory in Akron, just when we learned how to make records, together. We were learning how it all worked. The first In fact, the first three records, I don't think we never even had a compressor. We just didn't even know that that was a thing. And did the first three records have many overdubs? Are not? Really? They had a few overdubs? Yeah, yeah, like the first even the first record had some head overdubs bass and tambourine. Did you record vocals live or was that done after? Mostly they'd be live, right, vocals were mostly live. How did you do it with vocals and drums live or were you in a separate room. We were in the same room, same room. They just bled that that was part of the sound, I think, yeah, yeah, the vocal mic was part of a big part of the drums out. Yeah, it was like a little bit we know. Actually when we first started, there was a third guy. When we very first started, like that that demo, you can hear there's an organ just holding like one ecord or whatever. Our friend Gabe, who we grew up with, was hanging around a lot with I was hanging out with him a lot, and he was in the band. He was on the cover of the demo even And then it came time to make the big come up. We're making that record, and he just kept missing practices and he didn't have a car, so we had to go pick him up and find him. And one day he missed. He missed like the third day in a row. He's actually on the first record on a couple of songs he best slay the third or fourth day in a row. And I called him when they dude, what the fuck you're gonna blow it? This is like a thing, this is a good opportunity. He's like, I don't want I don't give a fuck about it. And I was like, you're done, You're out fun, and I kicked him out. It was kind of up to me because he was like closer to me, but he was our friend. But I think that that if we hadn't have done that, we wouldn't be sitting here today. Yeah, absolutely would not have worked. Dan would have packed up and walked away after that first tour. And yeah, but you know, I'm still in touch with Gabe and yeah, he hit a man called Gap Dream that was on Burger. During the time that you were you were working and you were playing in bars at night. What were you playing in a cover band or I was basically doing. I was playing three hour sets in coffee houses and bars, restaurants, solo, solo, as a duo, whatever they needed. I would just sort of musician, yeah, basically. Yeah, And that's what I was recording some band demos so that I could get band gigs at places like bars and can't stuff like that. So that's why I contacted Pat in the first place. We ended up. But yeah, no, that's I was playing three hour gigs four nights a week, and that was really mostly blues, blues, folk, sam cook just songs I liked. You know, most of the time people weren't even listening, you know. Sometimes would be acoustic, guitar depended. If I was playing like a brunch, I'd play acoustic. I mean, he was Dan was really good. I remember going to see him and being like, yeah, I mean, I'm lucky to be in a band with this motherfucker. Well, I mean it was a certain thing, you know, I mean, but doing the doing the thing with Pat was different. Like I was making really good money as a musician, yeah, you know, and I was. He had like a he had like a new car. Yeah, I bought it myself, a nice minivan to gig in and but doing an original project is just different. And I was totally willing to go play bars in Cleveland for five dollars. Yeah. Also, that was being a musician and this was being an artist. Yeah. What we did to get this, to get it going so we could go on tour was I would actually play a couple of these like brunch gigs with him, just like barely touching the you know not. It was more like Dan just being like, yeah, I'll split this money with you so we can get this ship going. And I was like, okay, well you can help me mo lawns and I'll split that with you too. So he would be out there weed whacking. That's when I found out I was allergic to fresh grass clippings. Yeah, we were rather mowing lawns, but we had only had work in the in the hood, so most of the job was just like clearing the yard of forty ounce bottles. It was picking up forties and that was a long I mean, the guy was a slum word and I say that and like people like I don't be an asshole, Like well seriously, like all this shit just got condemned and sued by the city of Acron for not paying taxes. We looked after his places, but he did, he did. He did pay me one hundred and eighty dollars a week to mow like these postage stamp yards that were just littered with like cult forty five caps and abandoned lots. And that was the minivan that we used to do shows in, so it always smelled like gas. Yeah, it's like, you know, thinking about all of the ship that we've been through is is kind of it's fucking intense. But I do ultimately think that the long away from the South of France, well, well yeah, everyone's everyone's always everyone's like I want on vacation the summer South France, and everyone like our label presidents. Like I was, like I said, I was like, oh yeah, I think I like South of France more than huh, Tuscany. He's like, and I sound like the asshole. Yeah, but like, but to be fair, like twenty years of doing this shit, I got the fucking France for a couple of months. But I think that we I mean, I think that some of some of the simplest decisions are the things that got make it so that we were able to sit here eighteen years into this and talk to you, and one of them is kicking Gabe out of the band. Yeah, that was the first decision. And don't forget I mean, I love this guy, you know what I mean, I do, But it's the fucking first great decision, second great decisions. Signed into Fat Possum, Yes, and it realized that Dan and I had an agreement, basically without an unspokenreement, that we would both put up with this ship. We basically signed up for like four years of remedial fucking rock and roll work. Right then We're like, we're gonna go to can pay our dues. But that led us to the fact that we by that we didn't hit like mainstream success till our sixth record, which I think there's the other great great accident, which is because if we would have had that ship on our second record, we would have imploded. We saw it happen like the first time we played a real, real, real gig, and we played La before this, but the first time we had a real gig here where people were going to come out just to see us was at the at the time it was called the not the Satellite, but I forget whatever it's called Satellite's It's Silver Lake. But we were our record release party for Thick Freakness and the opening band was Jet No one had ever heard of him, We never heard of him, and within within weeks they were like on the cover of Enemy. They were selling They sold millions of albums. They were headlining all the festivals that we were just doing the noon slots we were playing, like the small tent, they were headlining. And within a year of that, that was April eighth of two thousand and three, by Summer Sonic or whatever, Fuji Rock August to two thousand and four. We saw those guys one year in like three months. Those dudes were burned out. They were fucking done. We saw that happen a band go from nothing to the fucking biggest thing to then talk to them and then like fucking flamed flamed out. We're like fuck, man, We're like, fuck, we dodged that fucking ball, and we kept dodging. We then wolf Mother was opening up for us in London that that false false he thousand and four and boom, same shit. We're like fucking like, we're like basically human, like centipede, like dodging this shit like like, wh the fuck are we still doing this incredible? Yeah, it's like he was Centipede of that fucking scary German movie. I guess what I meant is we're remember like a missile command of finished motherfucker. You know, we've always we've always just done what we wanted to do. Yeah, you know what, by the sixth record, we'd made five records on our own, and we would want to recording a fucking studio for let's fill in the ditch. So the first three you said were pretty similar in the way you did it. First four, first four, and then what made five different five was that we were writing songs that we're going to be an Ike Turner comeback record, our Ike Turner record the whole the whole album. Even with the concept, your internal concept that was unspoken. No, it was spoken because Danger Mouse called us and said, I'm making a record with Ike Turner. You guys write the songs. You guys at the band, I'm going to produce. So we would go to dance. This is the first time Brian learned about songwriting royalties. Yea. So we would go to dance and make we recorded. We basically it's the last time we really made demos for an album. We basically made all these songs, and we after like two months of doing this, we finally get we got like two or three songs back. Last time or first time. I'm saying, like, we it's the last time, and it's probably the first time. What I'm saying it sounds like up till then, you didn't really do are all our records? Yeah, I guess it is our first time. Yeah. Yeah, so it's the first time you recorded something that was not necessarily going to be your record. Yeah, is that right? Yes, So we took the exactly so we we we were waiting for this record to get done, and it was months and months of waiting and we're like, we can't sit around and wait for this ship. And I actually flew out to La we'd met Brian at Coachella that April of two thousand and seven, and I flew out here for like a weekend vacation in May, and I met up with Brian and without even asking, Dan was like, would you produce a record for us? Not scraped this idea? Take these songs and make a keys record. He's like, I would, I would love to do that, And I called Dan's do can we do this? You wanna do this? And he's like, yeah, fuck, let's do that. So Dan picked the studio. We did a record with Brian Attack and release and the whole concept it was that we were going to approach that record for the first time with total disregard of how we were going to perform the songs live. So we were gonna get to use all these keyboards that we bought, and we're gonna get to like not be afraid to make a bassline of prominent in a mix, all that kind of bullshit that we should have the fifth it's our fifth albums. Yeah, and then Damn put out a solo record after that we made and then we got back in the studio and made this hip hop record which we were kind of focusing on cutting stuff like bass and drums, and it was a kind of more groove oriented, you know, like, yeah, it was fun. It was for for the first time we were starting with bass and drums, and it changed, the dynamic changed it. But it was fun. It was a lot of fun and we went right from that. That was July two thousand and nine. So you would you would write a bass and drum track and then and then add guitar to it and add some melody and start see. But we did that in like June and July two thousand and nine, in all songs, does do the does the track come first and then the vocal ideas Sometimes it's simultaneous. Sometimes I've always got a vocal mic there to to try stuff. But we from working that way. We also booked We booked time at Muscle Shoals and we had an engineer from San Diego, Mark Neil, come out in August. Marks really eccentric dude from Georgia, highly intelligent, knows everything there is to know about old school recording, especially old school American recording, and he engineered all the stuff for us down there Muscle Shoals. The drums and we used his drums. He had beautiful grit strums and he only used like two or three mics on the drum kit. And what did you record at Muscle Shoals? What was it? Brothers Brothers August to two thousand and nine, right after the hip hop record. We went down there and I think thinking of in terms of like these hip hop kind of groups. I mean, we were pumping out songs a day, a song a day, So you went into the studio without having material pre written, right, it wasn't anything there were We actually had a couple of songs that were we recorded a couple of weeks earlier at dance studio that those actually those versions all made the record, Like she's long gone, the ones from dance studio, the ones that were we did a dance studio. We just kept those recordings. We were just basically in the same headspace. We just we were like literally like it was a weird thing because we took the six months off for the first time in two thousand and nine, and I was like, I mean, I was like, but that was after like ten years, after like six or seven, eight years. But I was like, I don't know what this means dance making a solo record, and I need to be worried, like and then finally I was like, no, he just needs to do his own thing. And then it's like when we got back together, it was like we were we were better than we were before. Yeah, and I am I did fast forward to right now for a second, Like I feel like the last Night show was probably better than any show we've played a long time ago. I'm like, the break works, but we made Brothers in like in like ten days, we fucking end up this record. I'm like, and you know, songs like ten Cent Pistol or Sinister Kid. These things are like heavy fucking groups, unlike anything we'd done before. And are you still operating with the idea of of doesn't matter if you can play it live? Did it shift on the fifth album to just be that's the new standard on that touring? That fifth album was where it got a little hairy. Were like, some of these songs just didn't really work, Like that's a two piece, So when did you add When do you start adding people? On the Brothers tour, the first time we ever played was a four pieces at Madison Square Garden opening for Pearl Jam. We'd never played. We didn't do any warm up, like right out in front of twenty thousand people, you know, like, how want do you remember how how the show was? It was fine? I remember you know what I remember? I remember that. I remember the whole fucking place shaking backstage. Remember that when the crowd started to go crazy for Pearl Jam. It was the same day our record came out. That's what I remember. Brothers came out and we played Mass and Square Garden and then it was like a week later, we go to dinner at Cafe Jaton with the label and like, you know, very New York City thing to do, and there is nothing like your first show at Madison Square Garden. Now that's a real thrilling feeling. We'll be there with Pearl Jam. I mean, it was it was all overshadows for me because of this dinner we had a week later which was like our label president was like, you sold seventy three thousand records and I was like, what the fuck are you serious? I mean we were our previous records had sold like twenty and here's seventy three thousand. I was like what does that mean? Like, I don't know if people like it. And then the next week I just sold like fifty more and we're like fuck. About a month or two months later, it was still selling like twelve thousand copies a week. I was like, well, we have like a fucking hit record. We have like a fucking actual hit record. We had no radio play at this point, and then the songs are playing at radio and it was like, fuck, you know what the fuck just happened. This is what this album six, I like, this is it. We're like, we have a we have a fucking gold record, we have a fucking platinum record, We're playing the SNL, We're headlining fucking Coachella, Like all this shit just kind of started rolling, and that for me, it's just like a Schmere twenty ten to the time we play Outside Lands in twenty fifteen. Yeah, we that we play that show and we just on break. Wow four years wow till last night. Wow we got we got back in the studio year eight year build up, eight years sort of yeah, working your way up. I meant a solid five year run. How many albums So Brothers After Brothers, Brothers, Alchemino, Turn Blue, so three albums and big tours. Each one of those records sold in the US. Well Brothers and Alchemino over two million in the US. I mean we sold like seven million records worldwide on those records. And then once again, without really even talking to each other, we just went on a break. There was no big plan. It was just short. It was it was just it was like Danny did a break, yeah, and I was like cool, you know, and we did it and then you know, there's points in that time where I was getting frustrated, like just like because it just didn't know what was happening. But you were producing other produ you were both producing, both busy. Yeah, it was more like we finally had this talk. It was like as I understood, like, oh, yeah, Dannis needs to do what he's gotta do. Yeah, it's all good, and this band is special enough that like we can't be doing it if it sucks, like for one of us, Like if it can't be doing if it's stressful and it's not fun. So the whole year we went back in the studio a year ago to start this record, and the whole part of the time we've been talking it's like, how do we do this? Do this band? So it's fun and so so we don't have to do ninety five shows a year and play the Spike TV Video Game Awards and all this dumb shit that people ask you to do. It's like, that doesn't that's a that's a waste of my day. Someone's willing to flush my day, and not just that day, like the day getting there, the day going home, just flushed a whole fucking week down. It's to play Spike TV Video Game Awards, you know what I mean, It's like, that's not what we're doing. So actually that's why we figured out a plan that I think has been working, which is like, don't even look at sound scan, don't fucking bundle anything. Play shows that are fun, make records are fun. And the only pressing our old friends out to play with us we've known for twenty years. It's beautiful and we're the only press we're really doing is like we did We're doing your podcast, we did the Joe Rogan podcast, we did a couple of interviews, and that that's fucking its album cycle for us. Yeah, it's perfect, sounds really healthy, and it sounds like it'll be fun to make music. You'll probably make more of it, and you'll do it for a longer time. That's the idea, and enjoy life. I think that the other step, the other step to it, is like figuring out that thing that we started this conversation with, which is how we could use our agency in the business to highlight other artists, which we've been trying to do for years. But I mean Dan and I, between the two of us, have worked on something like sixty albums. Wow, and no one knows that. Yeah, you know, I was like, that's I talk at our manager, like, that's a bit of a problem for us, Like when the person standing in the front of the show last night doesn't know one tenth of the music that Dan and I've made over the last eighteen years. And there's some good shit in there. But it applies to all of our friends in the music business who make records, and no one fucking knows. It's hard because it's hard to discover it. Yeah, So I think that we're going to try to rather than spend, you know, one hundred and fifty days on the road, try to spend like, you know, fifty days on the road and spend one hundred days. I'm figuring out how to fix that. That's great, Yeah, beautiful. When we come back, Rick talks the Black Keys about some of their new songs. We're back with more of Rick's conversation with the Black Keys. Beautiful. Let's listen to a couple of songs on the new album. Do you want to make sure play play, play some and then we'll talk about them. So tell me the process, how that one come about? That one came about? We Pat wrote a drum machine over and it. It did a little you could kind of manipulate the drum machine, and but it also had a little kind of baseline that it did, like a little rhythm bass, you know what I mean. And it had a little foot control that would change major or minor. No, it was you could tell what it was. Yeah, And then I was playing bass with it. I mean I was changing major minor and Pat was manipulating the drum machine. Yeah, we both. I found this drum machine on Reverb. This is like a website. It's like kind of like eBay for musical instruments that it's kind of amazing. And I found this drum machine that I bought because it looks so ridiculous, called like an auto orchestra, and I was like, that's just the kind of thing that a song comes out of. Like it's just it's just the kind of thing that it will make a great song. So I brought it over to Dan's studio and I was like, fuck, Dan has the same fucking drum machine. I've never seen another one. I think the only other guy crazy enough to buy this ship is Dan. But only he didn't. He was missing the crucial component, which is this keyboard thing. So we hooked it up and that song kind of came out within like an hour, like the music, and that's the only song that has any sort of syn synthetic uh sound. You know. Everything else's organic, real bass, real guitar. There's no keyboards on the record except for that little pad. And then when did the vocal idea come that? That was all afterwards. I mean, it was just that started track. You built it, you know what. I played it from the start to the bottom without it an edit. I've just made We just made it. Yeah, it just popped right out. I had the intro and then the this is this feels like verse, it feels like second verse. Here's my turnaround and I'm just thinking and playing and it's this is a live take. And then I just started to layer the instruments on it and it just kind of popped in there. So cool. You don't play one of the live more live tracks, this is one. I'm gonna play this one this because it's one of my favorites. It's one of my favorites on the record. But I don't know if anybody else even likes it. It's just here we go under it's called under the gun. How did that one happen? Guitar and drums, guitar and drums and vocal and just through jamming. Yeah, it just arrived. Oh yeah, we had this turn. Dan has played the this kind of kinksy reminded me of the King said do do Do Do Do? But actually I think, I don't know, reminds me a few different things. But it just was to me, it was it kind of complicated the song because it was to me it was such a hook that we at one point we had it like fifteen times in the song and then we kind of cut it back. I still don't I don't know. I love it. I think it's one of those things where it's like it's it's the second to last song on the record, and you can just go to prove that most people don't listen to the whole albums. That was the first song that probably would have been to me, it would have been a single. Cool. I think, I mean, I play I said it to our our person that does radio. I think that checked it out might be a good single. No, no response like good. I don't know. I don't know, man, what the fuck do we know? Thanks to Dan and Patrick with the Black Keys for spending time with us at Broken Record. The new album Let's Rock is out now. You can check out more of the new record by visiting Broken Record podcast dot com and subscribeing to our playlist for the episode. You can also sign up for our behind the scenes newsletter while you're there. Broken Record is produced with help from Jason Gambrell and me LaBelle. Our theme music is by the great Kenny Beats. Stay tuned for next week's episode with Leonard Cohen's son Adam as he talks about his late father's new abum. I'm justin Richmond. Thanks for listening.