The British hip-hop subgenre grime first started to bubble up in London in the early aughts. Artists like Wiley and Dizzee Rascal developed an entirely new style by rapping over lightning-fast beats inspired by UK garage, techno and jungle.
Today’s guest, Stormzy is at the forefront of grime’s newest generation. He rose to prominence in 2015 after uploading a video to YouTube where he freestyled over classic grime tracks. Since then Stormzy has released three number one albums in the UK, won three Brit Awards, and become the first British rapper to headline the Glastonbury festival.
Just before releasing his third album, This Is What I Mean, Stormzy met up with Rick Rubin in London for a cover story from i-d Magazine’s Royalty issue. This is the recording of that conversation. On today’s episode we’ll hear Stormzy play Rick songs from his new album, and explain why he decided to consider his audience last when recording it. And Stormzy talks about how a painful break-up and trusting God helped lead him to a new melodic, soulful sound.
You can listen to a playlist of some of our favorite Stormzy songs HERE.
Pushkin. Grime has a rap subgenre first started to bubble up in London in the early OTS. Artists like Wiley and Dizzy Rascal developed an entirely new way of rhyming over lightning fast beats. The style was inspired by sounds popular in the UK in the nineties like garage, techno and jungle. Today's guest Storms is at the forefront of grime's newest generation. He rose to prominence in twenty fifteen after uploading a mixtape like video to YouTube where he was free signed over classic grime tracks. Since then, Storms has released two number one albums in the UK, won three brit Awards, and become the first British rapper to headlined the Glastonbury Festival. Just before releasing his third album, This Is What I Mean, Storms, he met up with Rick Ruben in London for a cover story from ID Magazine's Royalty issue. This is the recording of that conversation. On today's episode We'll Hear Storms, he played Rick songs from his new album and explain why he decided to consider his audience last when recording it, and Storms he talks about how a painful breakup and trusting God helps lead him to a new melodic, soulful sound. This is broken record liner notes for the Digital Age. I'm justin Mitchell from London. Here's Rick Rubin with storms. Since we spoke last, Yeah, you're just starting. I think when we spoke, I don't even know if there were any there was anything you were ready to dive in. It was the day before the first session, the first session that was booked, as in, Okay, I'm going to start my album, and we spoke and it's it's crazy because when we spoke, it's like you just reiterated on what I already knew. But you know, I knew what to do, yes, when I I was focused on it, but to hear you say it was like, okay, yeah, this is definitely what I've gotta do to you know what I mean. So, and the process has been literally everything you said, and I just embody that in every in every way, every shape, every form, in every intricate detail of the process, like it was just considering the audience last and not even Yeah it's funny to say, right, yeah, it's funny to say it, but it's true. It's in service to the audience exactly that you can't think about them. Literally, I feel like there's also this false sense of how re called. It's like a false bravery, and it's like a false freedom when it's like, I'm not considering you, audience, so I'm gonna do all this stuff to show you that, And that's not freedom, do you know what I mean? And I was like, no, what I'm gonna do is I'm not going to consider the audience in the most pure way possible as And it's not like it's not like, hey, I'm gonna defy what everyone thinks about me. It's like, I'm just gonna be so true to myself that I can't consider the audience. And any decision I make about this art that I'm making, just make it true to you. And most of the time what people want is what's true to you. And if you try second guessing yourself to please someone else, it's never real, you know, it's never It's not the best it can be. The best it can be is the thing that you love more than anything exactly, and people like it or not, and it's okay, that's fine, but it's real, you know, it's it's real, it's who you are, and it's the best of yourself and that dictates who your audience is because forever you want to be able to make the music that you want to because otherwise you're always like, oh, what are they gonna like next? What am I? And you start chasing trends and it's and I've always said that is like, for me, that's the most impossible task you see, to kind of try and figure out what people would like isla, especially in the way music moves and trends are slack. The idea of being caught in a race in terms of our gho studo and I'm in there like yo, we gotta make sa that is my worst nightmare. And I've always said if I ever get in that space, I will never do this again, because that's like that feel was that for me, that feels that probably the worst place to be as a creative, where I'm trying to make something to please people who don't even know. I always say the audience doesn't even know what they like, even me as me as a music listener, I never know what I like until I hear it and it connects with me, do you know what I mean? So I always want to just be on this side of defense. Where I'm doing everything for myself and it's been a very selfish process as well, you know what I mean. So I feel like every decision. It's funny because I feel like we had this like essence and culture making the album, and then towards the end of it, well, I got this white board and I started writing loads of quotes, and one of the quotes was a quote that is at the beginning of your book, it's about being in the in the form that allows art to be inevitable. And that was one of the quotes that was on the board and that we was getting to the towards the end of the album process, and we've been We've been super pure in every decision. And then you know when it comes to finish and like just a functionality that comes with finishing a record, and you know the facilitating that comes with finishing a record. And then there's the intro fire and Water that is it's about eight minutes long, and there was there was discussions about like how we do this and how we do that, and I just said, we just got a stick to what we started with, as in what how do we feel? How do you like as and this is all about us. This isn't about anyone else. How do how do we feel? Does this make us feel good? Do we want that guitar stream to just keep going? Do we want that drum to just keep going? Do you want it to stop here? Because it doesn't feel good anymore? And it was just so selfish, but in the most beautiful way. Like and I've always said, I have to love my art more than anyone. I have to love what I make more than more than anyone. It should be my pressures, it should be my pride and my job before the world even cares about it, because, as you said, it's not about whether people like it, which is which is even that's wild, it's a wild place to get to. It's a wild idea, yeah, but it's the job. The job of the artist is to say this is me, this is my work, and you know, hopefully you like it. Yeah, but either way it has to be mine. Otherwise what is it? You know, what else is it? What is it? Yeah? But yeah, it was, it's been it's been amazing. And yeah, I think keeping that same ethos and a big one for me as well as having got in the room. Yes, like every time we went to make music and even just in my life as well, Like I feel like I'm at a stage now where I overstand that what we do, it's like I do not take it for granted to all this day. I always say, like if I'm if, I'm if, I wouldn't have made a song now and it was good. I get back in my car and I can't believe. I can't believe it. I'll play it and I can't believe, Like, Yo, this was because I overstand that this what we do is and it sounds sometimes it can sound like this kind of lack fairytale come by our kind of slap No, Like no, it's real. It's it's real. Like I always say, as artists, a creatives, we we just walk in the studio and just hope to God that some some cool stuff comes out of Like whatever we play, whatever we sing, whatever we wrap, we just hope to God that you do you know what I mean, Like it's not a muscle. We can, of course, we can practice, and we can, but when it's really good, yeah, it's bigger than us exactly exactly one hundred percent. And that's what I've overstood with this process. So go in the studio, and we pray. We asked God to be in the room, Holy Spirit guide us and just wherever comes out like, and it takes a lot of the pressure of myself and the artists in the room because it's like, it's not even us, it's not even us this let this let God guide it. So, yes, you're the vehicle to allow it to happen, hundred percent. Yeah, And it's powerful. It's been very powerful. Yeah, it really is. Let's listen. I'm so yeah, yeah, please, um. I think I always start with just the intro. Yeah, and even let's listen in order. Let's listen. And I was just a little just a little context with because I think this is one of the truest testaments to that the whole culture around the album and how we made it is that we made this song. And for a long time I was writing it on the whiteboard. It was always the first thing I wrote. And then a Progression Castle, who's phenomenal and he executively produced the album as well, and my cousin as well, my cousin Germaine, who's my creative partner. Everyone thought it was the intro, but at first I was like, oh, this song's like very soulful and melodic and vulnerable and very beautiful, and I was like, I don't know if it's the intro, and then I thought to myself, why wouldn't it be the intro. Also, it's about it's about my ex girlfriend, which at the time I made it, she was the most pressing matter on my heart. So I feel like that's why it was the first song I made, because as soon as I've gone to touch the mac, that's like the first thing that's come out of me. And it goes back to that thing in terms of considering the audience last, because what I felt that I was doing is that once upon a time, when I made album, because I'm a rapper, that first tune, I have to you know what I mean? I got a rap and I got the expectations to expectation, do you know what I mean? And that's the kind of thing like as in that doesn't come from a place of art, that comes from a place of maybe ego, like as when I'm starting this conversation, starting this album and I'm gonna show you that I can still and I was like, this album, I had to kill my ego, do you know what I mean? I had to kill my ego and just let my truth speak for itself. So this is why it's the first song on the album, because it was the first song we made and it was definitely at the most present. My answer, it's probably beast for you. It's probably best fed file fire from this prophet match too. Bind I still the ground, and even though it's called outside, it's probably best feed prey to lead us from this drop. If your love is my holy war to God, just let me drowned. And even if you don't, it's fine. I guess you're gonna be figured out. We've got that Champagne love. Don't let it fist it out. I know I bought a water pain you could have did without a few us't never wanted me. Then I'll probably get a bigger house. I was standing by the war. Do we tripple drown running around the circle, just a ward listening to lessons. That's a lesson taught. Second guess is really got you having second force? Second force never hurt nobody. Everybody has them. If you all get Bayway spurs. And I think I missed the touch even more than me imagined. If I saw you right now, I wonder what would happen Orange Gewagon, you can park up on the travel I was meant to be there when you're starting up your left you made your people proud, or starting all that eyes we draw apartment in the skies. I scared my livest cameras and I said, I hope it doubles back on you when I double back. I never double back to rout you. I hate to see you leave, but I'd love to see the back of you. I'll take you out to eat and after that I make a snack of you. I never put my hand on you. It still the biggest fun of you. But for me that color greens and round the beans and Kellorlo. Every single day I close mans and try and channel you, try from memory lane and then I see you by the Ovenue. But it's probably best for you, probably best for you. Far fire from this perfect match too. Burn I stood her ground. And even though it's called outside, thank you, that's beautiful, Thank you very much, thank you sound very free. Yeah that's what. Yeah, thank you, thank you. Yeah. They love it. Yeah, that's yeah, that's how I feel as well. I love it. And it's completely unexpected at all. What I was expecting to hear to start with oh, wicked, perfect, perfect, beautiful, thank you. So it's like three songs and one really yeah, And it was it was always just one song and then yes, and it was another song that got made and then and even then that put into two songs together. At first, like it was what I was saying, you know that sometimes people with art you want to be purposely defiant or purposely and like put and I was like, if it doesn't feel good, we're not going to do it. It's not about that. But then it felt so good and it felt right, and like I was on tour and I was listening to both the songs separately, and I was like, no, this tells a story. This like this, it feels like it's a yeah, it's a continuation of the story. It's beautiful, thank you, And tell me how it happened, Like what was the first thing to happen? Was there a track first or was there a vocal idea? No, So the first thing was it was the first day in studio with me and Progression, and he just played that chord. He played that, He just played the chord the way it opens, Yeah, the way open. And then I just grabbed you know, if I could play something please the first time? He sang, yeah, the first time. Yeah. And this is this is my posts a lot of the time as well, where I just grabbed the marc and whatever feels whatever comes out of me and feels good. I just just always trying to go with that. It's probably best for it's probably best free file fired from this perfect match too. Burner stood the ground, and even though it's called outside incredible, it's probably be speed prey to lead us from this drone. If your love is my holy or talk God, just let me drowned. And even if you don't, in fine paster, don't let me go. What a about the up these days? The kids are that falls, maybe we're off sick. What do I thought? I guess I'll go a bit of balls and everybody in my head of year, my wizard boughs and I feel it in my daddy year my did with Bess Afewers give you, I mean, then I guess I'll get a bigger house anybody. And my buddy this is trip it down pretty and my Putty and my Beckham boys, I Betty your b daddy, you ain't taking talk second guessing is really good. You're having second fours. Second fours never heard nobody, everybody has him. Give you orgasms, baby, where you're spezing? My best sirs. Then I turned into a dragon, but he am a pretty but they bitty bit of Breggan there you ever more than your poker on the drive ready and my buddy in the star to bass Buddy and Mydiddi and Madavid and my dads brought him in the pass, brought him in the dass, the cameras and NASA never back on you, buddy and my daddy and made yam DACKI had a bit of Betty and I hate to see the back of you. Why and the Betty every time I'm make a snaky wherever I am at. Good for me? That better bees, amount of mus and Kelly whatever, the better beers and bears and better better bees or friendship on one of them are funny. It's so much of it is there? Yeah already yea automatic, It just happened. Yeah, And that was the first ever session be done. Casta just played that chord. I grabbed the mic and that's what came out. And at the time it felt like it needed work and it needed to go here, and it just went back to what we said is and that's the feeling. That's how we like you feel. Yeah, we got and a lot of the words even in the even in the verses, a lot of the words of the words. Yeah, it's incredible. Yeah, God was in the room. Definitely, Yeah it is. You can hear you can hear it, because it's like, it doesn't make sense that all this information all of a sudden gets downloaded. You know what I'm like, exactly, It's a lot of information. Doesn't just happen. Yeah it was. Yeah, it was amazing. But that was the first song and we don't we never take it for granted, but it's amazing that when it happens enough, you come to realize if we live in the world a certain way, it happened, like I do you know what I mean. It's on the one hand, it's crazy and on the other hand, happens all the time. It happens all the time. Yeah, amazing, But the feeling never gets old. It's so exciting because we go in like wonder what's going to happen? You never know, you never know, and it's not always good. It can't be definitely. It can't always be, but when it is, it's like, wow, can you believe it? What a great feeling and that feeling of yes, not us, like it's coming through. But yeah, that was. It was amazing, beautiful, What a beautiful song. Thank you very much. Beautiful song. I love that it starts with piano. I love that all the verses there's no drums for any of the verses, which also when there is no drums, you listen to verses in a different way, do you know what I'm saying. Like, when you're listening to a beat with versus, a part of the listener is absorbed in the beat, and we're like looking at how the words relate to the beat. So we're maybe more into the phrasing when it's with a beat, But when there's no beat, it's it's the words. It's only the worst, so you hear them more and they mean more. So I love that that decision. And then when the beat comes in, the course becomes like a chant and that works great. And then when the percussion section at the end comes out, it feels almost like a bridge or outro or whatever, but it feels like just the story is continuing and in an unexpected way as well, because it seems like a traditional song might have ended, but this and we're lucky enough that it keeps exactly it's beautiful, really good, really good. And also another thing interesting is the delivery of the vocals feels very acts. It doesn't sound like a performance. It sounds like we're hearing your inner thoughts. And there's nothing more profound or powerful than you know, like being close enough to hear almost like what someone's thinking. Yeah, and that's what it feels like. It doesn't feel like listen to the rhyme, you know, listen, listen how God I rhy It doesn't sound like that. It's funny you say that. What I had to do with this song in particular was because it was it's it's it's about someone, and it's a real situation. And it's like sometimes in rap somet there's a way if I've made a mistake, there's a way I can say sorry, or there's a way I can say I love you, and I can lack that. I can be cool about it and I can say it and a stylistic but I was like, for the reality of this situation, like I had to I had to kill wherever style or ego lived there and like and really be yeah, and really deliver it and write it in a way that lack. It's almost besides the listener. It's besides it's it's directly from myself to it's like a diarrhetic. It feels very, very personal and again not necessarily expected. Yeah, you know that's that's always a great I love it, beautiful, Thank you. We're gonna take a quick break here and then we'll be back with more from Rick Ruben and Storms. Before we jump back into Rick Ruben's conversation with Storms, here's the title track off his new album, This is what I mean. It's a bigger reparation. What's the old the speculation. I had to close the store for renovations, my cousin said, Storms. I never running out of patience, you know, time to make a statement, time to free my mind and limitations. But that's the majors, that's my form of reparations. They said, you can't slide your treasure to the nation. But what they're gonna do, what they're gonna say. Storms got that source to that Buller Nash talking about the bread like it correlates. I see you looking bothered with your buller face even though we're coming from a coming place. Well, I see it. Stars let me in the red. So give hi him to grow and just give him space and he could be a young black Jimmy Nicks. Oh, this is clean, this is clean. This is what I mean. I said, this is what I mean. All my niggas go it were unanimous, cut from different cluff and different calibers, skill it and it's my two my managers. She got me, calm, handsome man. I'm telling them what hanging off. The banisters told me Who's gonna pay for all the damages? I'm just reckless like the manims to conrector. You're gonna as you to your manazine. I said it from the kids. You shouldn't listen. I manifesting shit, and then it happened. I said that I'm gonna do it. Then it happens up on the minutes. Slapping I shot my brother gets us more than rapping. Shot my sister. Mo he do a fashion. Oh this word that I've been mush put your bray in the position where I'm put. I shouldn't have rap. They don't know about the times I'm led give a fuck out what the timeline said. After your Day streams in the second year shine lighted, I thank God for their life. I'm led they get the rave clean. I heard him saying, grahamy did I'm harry sis the way I found that tread. You got a mainstream mandual business, Well you min my bread with ten million one enough, I make a lifetime pledge a rap. Thank you beautiful, thank you, Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's yeah, it's like a it's it's a lot like I would say that that that song always feels like a sonic explosion of summer sort yeah, but gives it like a spiritual, a spiritual vibe even though it's a dance on. You got that spiritual underpinning. Really beautiful, Thank you beautiful? Had that one happened? That happened. That happened in so many ways. That started off with an amazing producer called Knox Brown and it was P. T J. Progression and like, yeah, we we had this idea for a song that we wanted to I wanted to use that all my favorite artists to like, but use them as paintbrushes, not like as in verses, just use them as they have voices. And their verses as paint brushes. Then we had an amazing, amazing, beautiful writing camp for my studio, and then Jacob Collier came, and then pet J had this insane idea to sample Jacob's voice and make it distorted and a bit uncomfortable and a bit eerie, and then it just became this this epic like, yeah, this epic song. And then Miss Banks is on their Ama Ray Black Sheriff. It was one of those ideas, like the first one I played, that they evolve over time. But the thing that I've loved the most about is that when it's evolving, it's just off a feeling. It's not like, oh, let's do this, because it's just like, Yo, what feels good. Oh let's let's bring that person in, or oh let's do this, or let's put strings here, just whatever feels good. And I always say it needs to strike a chord within my soul and my spirit that makes me say yeah, and it has to excite me and make me feel good and yeah, And then we just add to the palette that if it feels good to throw some red on it, we throw red on it. If it feels good to just blurt some Blue, we Blurst some Blue. So I think that tunes a true testament to that process. Yeah, beautiful, what's next? Thank you? The next song is this song is called fire Babe. Tell me before we play it, play me. Tell me about the tour? Where did you play? I was went to do a world tour, but then pandemic came so then that and The Only Man just tore Europe in twenty and twenty and then this year I toured. It was actually my last album, which came out in twenty nineteen, and it was it was amazing. It was across the UK, Yes, and it was really like the most special tour I've done so far, especially I think because I've not been on social media, like it felt like the first time in a long time. I was with my people, yes, yeah, and it felt like I would come out and every night felt like in a real genuine way. I don't want to sound too cheese, but I felt out O think thank you like for still yes, for still working with me and still supporting me. So and it was beautiful and it was nice because everyone I'd lived with the album for two years now and I didn't want to tour it I really like, I told my team I really didn't want to do it, like, but everyone encouraged me to do it, and then yeah, it was really good because it reminded me as well that this art that we do and the music we do lives. As much as I feel like I live a life away from I don't ever feel I do sometimes, of course, when I walk the streets, so I gold places. But a lot of the time the effect of your art, you don't always feel it if you're just living life, especially the whare I live life. I'm with my family and my friends are to come out and it's like, oh, you don't know this song, and oh you don't want it hit you know what I mean. And this is the first tour as well where I confidently performed all the songs where I'm singing, all the songs that I'm more soulful, all the songs that needed a band. Whereas before I used to talk because my shows are known for high energy Graham and whenever I used to like perform the slower stuff and the more melodic stuff I did used to feel a bit like I used to do this thing where I would perform it and I would have a little section of it, and then as soon as it was done, I would say, ah, but you didn't come in for this, Let's get back to it. And this time I was like, no, I'm not doing that, because that's that's not brave, you know what I mean, That's not brave. Like I've made this music and I loved this music, and I should stand by this music. So we had this big band section in the middle that was probably the big chunk of the soul, like forty five minutes of just soulful, and I just felt it and it just felt beautiful, and it was like, this is this is my music, you know what I mean. I'm not going to shy away from the soul and the and the and the more melodic stuff because that's as much as I'm a grand artist and I'm a rap artist, I'm an artist. I'm a musician. And if I want to sing and I want to jam out with the band and be soulful and be doing my R and B and my gospel, stand on that like and be proud of it. So yeah, this tour was the first time I went out there. And what kind of places did you play? It was an arena tour. I did great. It was I want to say fifteen fifteen dates. We did three or two arenas, which was which was phenomenal that I was like one of the highlights of my life. Yeah. It was up and down the UK and it just felt good like it was like, oh, this is my country and this is my people. That it was amazing beautiful, Okay, lets he was anxious to Yeah it's cool. Um. This song here is called fire Babe. She was standing in her trad and she rose looking like can angel. Her eyes took away my bread and that's when I knew she was mine. Unto the end. My miracle might be plain my heart and soul for the years, because I I just gonna explain, even in the way you love me with your face, my fire bad you keep bringing bright, touch me you and buy me with your fame. She makes everybody go. Then she started dancing on the table. She comes starred stead in order hard how she lights upper something too. My miracle, mind me pain, my mind, soul just expansions. My far band. You keeping to me so beautiful, thank you, beautiful, thank you. Yeah. That one's very special to me. As so melodic and vocal, so vulnerable and real, thank you really good. How about one happened? That happened with one of the most phenomenal singer songwriter as I've ever met, a young girl called Debbie who's actually signed to death Jim as Well. She is the unbelievable And I got in a studio of her and the first there's another song coming later that also she's at the end of the fire water and pull me Water part me. Well, that's Debbie as well, beautiful. And we got into studio and George Moore, a phenomenal producer, started playing these chords, and then we started messing around with some melodies, and then we figured that we wanted to tell tell a story of that first spark when you've met your partner and you're just sewing awe and the slack wow and especially like the relationship hours hours in. I just tried to narrate like the first that first time, you know, when you first meet them and you're very observant of them, that you might go to a party or you're like at dinner and you watch them and you watch how they worked the room. And we just narrated it and described it. And I remember as I was writing it, I was just like my lemonade or my sweet Escape, and I was like, there needs to be a payoff here, like what's what's this? What's the lyric that we can have here? And it was like my fire, my fire baby, my fire and my fire baby, and Google as anyone said this before, I was like, I googled it, and I was like, it would be beautiful if we could coin this term, like as a week like this, we'll call this song fire baby and we'll create especially that's how I think, that's how I feel about my ex as well as an that's a good way to describe it. And I was like, if we can just just coin this new term and just describe it and say you're my fire baby, and like yeah, it felt very beautiful and very honest, and even with the vocal and the music, it's a place where I've always wanted to get to as an artist. Like I feel like I've always kind of sung and explored melody, but I've sometimes I've done it a bit sheepish lee, I've been brave, and like when I look back five years ago, I've been brave and I was trying. I think you even went there exactly. Yeah. I used to dip my toe in and I would sing a bit, and I was like, no, this time, I want to sing that. I want to sing that cow Stevie sings or how Frank Hooshon sings or how Whitney would sing. That. I was a sing as much as because I've come to the conclusion, of course, I will never be able to sing like this, but I can sing in my way. I can sing with my honestly and truth. It's believable. The way you sing it, it's like I know you mean it. Yeah, exactly, yes, and and that's all that that's what that matters. Yeah, yeah, that's what that means. Thank you. Let's keep going. So good. Um, okay. The next one is graduations signing death tream by the way, thank you, thank you. It's it's amazing. It's amazing. Man. You can wear it with a badge, such a badge of honor as well. Man, So cool. Yeah, thank you? Okay and list oh please put you lower your tone? Please could you get off my phone and please leave Megan a loan? I said, please leave Megan alone, because step when you deep at your house, it's never your home. You want to speed. But it's best that you don't under pressure. We fold, let's believe, or protecting your front. I had to let it be known. We eventually grow. I'm a sensitive soul. Please could you pause to applause? Please? Could you let me be floored? And please leave your pain at the door as to your match in this house. And I can't bear anymore. Please spare me your fool. Please, Lord give me the strength to forgive my dad, for he's flowed, and so our master, who I might to know, to not forgiven my new tries. I see it's so annoying cries. But with this pain or rubber with this pain or rather pain, and try and turn this broken picture to something that I ain't. It's paying a rubber hole because it made me who I am sorely time I let it go, I free myself for myself, I free you from regret. I grow on new piece before you rest. And that's the least that you should get off. Think we've both suffered enough. Please of it. That might be my favorite one yet, I'll I'll look at that's yeah, thank you beautiful. That's should be the one thing where to tell everyone to leave the studio and just have some time with it for myself. And it started off an amazing producer call open cuts to he at that sample of it was just quiet singing please, which didn't have the piano. It was just the quiet. Now there was keys, there was keys, there was keys on it, but it was just please. And it was it's even be discussed at the time, but even the word please, like, the vulnerability of it, the desperateness of it, Yes, even even though the many facets of it where sometimes it's just our please could and sometimes you're at your end of your taver and it's just please, like, And I thought of what does please mean to me? And like at the time, it was my please was. It wasn't a defiant it wasn't like a I needed. It was just like a please like and I just let everything roll out with me like and I didn't. I tried not to be I tried not to premeditate it. I just yeah. And it ended up being it always feels that to me, um like a confession, like a confession beef, Like you just go in there and just let it all out. So it was very therapeutic in that sense, very beautiful. Thank you, and the cod just the cycle of chord. It's so emotional. Yeah, it was, it was, it was, yeah, it was. We all knew it was a special moment as well. When when be done in the studio, thank you, it feels like it's like a story. Okay, yeah, that's that's that's all. It feels like that. Yeah, it's great. And even I feel like the beautiful thing is there was no premeditation about it, like yo, like I'm trying to say this, I think, yeah, I just went a studio. Yeah yeah, and just it was that. And that's why I think you've got to give God credit and also the heart credit, because I think sometimes the heart that does what it wants to do, you know what I mean, Like if if we don't get if we don't get in the way, yeah yeah, And as artists, that's that's the best place to be him and you're just letting your memories, your experiences speak for themselves. So yeah, thank you. I'm feeling it. Thank you. That's it. That's it, that's all that. That's what I want. And even when people ask me about this this album, in this phase, the word is just always I just want someone to feel it. Yeah, I just want people to feel it. I don't care about anything calse than someone just feeling it, someone saying, you know, I felt that, because that's that's cool. That's that's what I want. Yeah, so thank you. We have to take one last quick break and then we'll be back with more from Rick Rubin and Storms. Before we finished Rick's conversation with Storms, here's this new song. My presidents are black. God into my flows, heaving in my tracks. My presidents are black. See Jackie on the front, landing riches in the back. Remember when they told us just a rap. Over the years we've been ill advised. They told us just one at a time. That's the biggest slack. A wise man wants asked where all the pairs? And now he's looking at me funny like I took his slash? Or what a last I can't walk with no broken man. They start warring. Never wos the plan? Cool jigger told me Crabs in the bucket, I said, I overstand, so you, my brother, you can hold my hand. You don't know about the combos that we had to chase the rules. Didn't know that I will give my armor left to hope you move. Didn't know we're trying to implement our history through the schools. You can keep the gems. I give you jewels. Ah. We are the needle movers. We are the table ship because they gotta move around us. Can nothing moves about us. It can't be you who found us. We don't need you to crown us. I have to crown before my song. This is the mountain down on. We set up shot, but never close the shot. I give you all the keys or rhyth We know each other. My brother told me, bro, you wasn't known to star, so I got rid of it. I'm smoothing and some cocoa butter fluid. You can it's the community provide or the mobile pool distrack survivor glory be to God, Jehovah Gyra. How can I retire? The devil was a liar? The shaman nigga did care. We made it through the fire. Should have left me out? The politics or no, it's petted cheese and dollar chips. Niggas went from selling weed to scholarships. They're belling means or hollo flips and now they holoflips and get at me. I could be a beat on with you. Let it be I needed you to set me free. I just needed you to let me dream. The pressure down under those my favors from my self esteem. I wonder what they tell raheem black boy fly, black girl fly. We all fly if you try to rub them for their dreams. Of course, UM gonna put a target on your back. Cool cat, But you're leaving you so alone. This is my war. Cray, just careful when you fuck around and take the piss that would be my little broad baby sisters. Have to make a statement just in case it is rare products to the place we lived. Yeah, we're busting all your favorite myths now Oneadays, I pull up on my z Smith from Master with a pen skin tone dark and then you're skin Now you have to pull it up and start again. Tell Michael Gold that we got setting for your nose and we got shampainball from Ways that number ten. No, we're gonna part you through the bullshit. If you make a plaint, I'll reinforce it. If you take a standard, reinforce it. That's what we do. If we beside you then with cheering. This is hashtag murky. This is good engineering. I swear, thank you, love it, thank you, thank you, thank you. The sampled music is so cool. Yeah, it's dropped up. It's really cool. It's the first time I ever heard of Zadie Smith reference. Yeah, I love Zadie, I love it. I love that woman. She's incredible. She's I'm a big, big, big admirer already, and I really wanted to say her name of the lyric. Yeah, I wanted to, like, yeah, I wanted to pay homagin I'm safe with some beautish that's good, and had that one happen. First was the sample. It's a beautiful Swedish artist called Daniello Refana And this song was actually shown to me and hits me right right in my spirit, like yeah, it's it hits me right in my musical spirit in terms of that, it's a perfect song. And I was listening to the song so much, and I showed it to Progression and he with me and Progression Black got very similar music taste as well. Yeah, so when when I played it to him and he was like, what the what the hell is this? And then he sampled it and then yeah, I just rapped And it took it took me some time to figure I always knew I wanted to rap over the beat he made, but it took me time to get to the lyrics. And then when I got to the lyrics, I just had to be in such a place because I'm also in a new place. I'm in a new place as a man. So when I go to rap, I've always just got I said, what do I want to say? It's not about just ramming as yeah killed my ego, man, So I always say, what do I want to say? I can just rap because if you give me a beat, now I can rap. We can do it all day lap And I was like, it's not about that anymore. It's about all I want to say. So I had to figure out what I wanted to say and just be purposeful and intentful with it. And yeah, ended up so that songs called my Presidents are black. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So got to know my flow is heaven in my tracks, my kettles all gold, and my presidents are black. And like, for me, that means a lot to me. Do you know what I mean? That means a lot to me, Like signing to death time, my presidents are black and not I think that's like a It means at the end of the person speaking that's jazzy b from soul to soul, so like it just means it's like we're here, like it's an arrival, and it's like we stand for something so beautiful and to do it over that beautiful piece of music. I love it and it's so cool music, so cool. There we go. That's so it's a black thank you. Um. This next song is called Holy Spirit. If you need a pressure, the pressure from my shoulders. Father helped me hold this because I can't better pressure. If you need a burdens, the burdens are so heavy. The Lord you may be ready to carry you my burdens. If you need a power, the power that's inside me or SMI canno pass by me, mighty goal, my tea, old me close, feel me, give your presence, old me, ghost and spirit farther. God, I found it, God, keep me so rounder. Isn't it amazing that faithful is alway needed to find the missing pieces or even searching for my Jesus times when I felt wifeless, you gave me peace and brother, Oh Door, I don't deserve it. Oh though I'm far from perfect. Head to hold me close, fail me with your presence, oldly ghost and spirited Father God, I found it. Lord, keep me surround, Holy spear. I don't know what this is. It's trying. It's a feeling you give, Oh, Lord, can even and you feel me with places feeling. I don't want to resist old holy stress showing away home. If attas and pray so, yould you you will never leave me straight now. I'm I'm little friend. You're the reason why I pray. Feel me with the often when you hold me in your arms, it makes me feel some type of bad. Don't you be that? But I'm old? Oh? Oh oh, if you need my story? What do you have for me? Oh? Do you have fun? Me? Made me feel so wholeful. I'm just glad I know you. I'm so glad I know you. I'm so glad I know you. Amazing, Thank you, that's beautiful, Thank you very much. The one earlier felt like a confession. This one's like a hymn. Yeah yeah, yeah, very beautiful. And how this one happened? This um, this was this was a time and I really, I would say, reconnected with God. I've always been like from a young age, I've always loved God and known God. But this was like this This felt like a coming of age where I was an adult and I was like, oh, I understand you now, God, I understand how you move and how you work. And like my brother Dion, who's we call him the chord Lord because he is Midas touts when it comes to Keith, so shout out don that we've made so much music together. He's he's actually on those of chats on the album. He just started playing and I just started singing. So that whole melody, literally from the beginning to end, was a one take. Not the lyrics, but just the melody was one take, very beautiful, and the Holy Spirit was in the room and just just caught it and I just went back to filling the lyrics. But yeah, man, it was powerful. Thank you. I love it. There's a lot of piano on the album and it really works. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Another thing that's that's tying it all together. It's just how many chords were here. Yeah, I've never even noticed. I never forced why a bit of piano and it feels really good. That's another thing that makes it feel like almost like a theater piece, like it all is. It all feels glued together, beautiful. Thank you, thank you very much, thank you. And this is the outro. This is the last song beautiful. This is called give It to the War. This is with Debbie as well. Yeah, phenomenally. This was the first song we made together, that the first studio system. And will it likely be the last arm Yeah, yes, yeah, And I've wanted it to be the user from the beginning. And next you're doing good man. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate. I'm appreciate, so happy for you. I appreciate. Thanks so much. Pressure at tension. I'm pushing, but it's getting hard. I'm so closed long bow, God knows, I see you getting darker. There's no give, there's bruises. I'm losing on. This isard is hoarster and I feel low a preet, slow going and give it to the water. Give it to the water, Give it to the water. This walk keeps me flying when i'm straight. This war's gonna Tommy, It's okay. It's flowing and it's showing me the way. Let it fill up the place. The war's gonna wash away the paint. I hear it when it's calling out my name. It's running and it's flooding from my veins. Let it fill up the place. Just focus. The process will show us how to move forward, to look round. It's too loud, the big crowd, but that is an important there's no good. There's bruising. Is I'm losing on this desert? Is arster? Feel up pretty slow? Let go and give it to the water. Give it to the water. Give it to the water. This water keeps me flowing. When I'm straight. The water's gonna tell me. It's okay. It's flowing, and it's showing me the way. Let it fill up the place. The water's gonna wash away the paint. I hear it when it's calling on my name. It's running and it's flooding from my veins. Let it fill up the place. M h. I hold onto the world. Time it sees me from the worlds that God, no wonder I am stronger. Its feeding the hunger. He's keeping behinder, don't they. This boy keeps me flowing random straight. The wood is gonna turn me. It's okay, it's flowing, and it's showing me the rain live out the plain. The war is gonna rush away the pain. I hear it when it's calling, it's running and it's flooding from that's incredible. Thank you, really beautiful, thank you very much, thank you. Yeah wow, Yeah, And I really wanted that to be the out from the from the yeah from when you first made it. So that's like, especially if you think that the story of the album, especially like that chapter of my life. It felt like all I could do was because even when I say give it to the water, I mean give it to God, lack. Yes, it just felt like that's all I could do. Like I've I've I've helped myself accountable. I've I've looked in the mirror. Yes, I've deeped every every detail of my life and was like, okay, at this point, like just give it to God, like free yourself of lack, you know what I mean. So yes, yes, it's a very fitting. It's an incredible it's an incredible chapter in your life. I could feel it. Thank you, And it feels like it all hangs together, it belongs together, and it also frees you up. Now whatever you do next can literally be anything. Thank you. Know it's it's because this is so unexpected that I don't think anyone knows what to expect next, you know what I mean? Like now you open the door that you're truly free and you're gonna make beautiful music. Thank you, and you can and you can do it for a long time when when when you don't have that feeling of it needs to do something for someone else, it's staying true to yourself as easier than trying to please other people over long period of time possible. So this is I'm very happy, thank you so much. It's it's mad you say that because I felt I felt like that as well, and I've said that and I've always said and it's this is the second time we've we've we've spoken and the first time you really confirm something that I've been imminent are in about and like I was like, I'm sure, like I know with this album, I know that that unlocks like whatever freedom I've been looking for, both as a man and as a creative life. Feel like this is like allows me to spread my wings and like yes, yeah, and I feel like before with my heart, I've always I've always been trying to say yo, like this is me and whereas this time I've just said the old lives, put my foot on it, just done it. Yeah, yeah, it's done very pure very pure. Thank you so much. I love it. Thank you. That means the world. That means I love it. And I also will tell you from my perception, if anyone, if any of your fans don't like it, there's gonna be a lot more people who are gonna like it beyond whoever was there before, because it feels like it's just so good that a lot of people are gonna feel us. You know, it's a it works on a human level, that's it perfectly. Yeah, And I've made peace with if if nobody liked it, I'm I've made peace instant. That's It's the healthiest way, it's the strongest way to make art is to know I'm doing my thing. If they like it, great, and if they don't, it's okay. But I'm being true, being true perfect. Yeah, thank you, thank you for listening. Thank you so much for playing it now so ons and lock. This is like in a dream. So thank you so much, man, Thank you so much. That's great. Appreciate you. I love you and you feel it, and thank you for this, really I feel, the listener said, and we do it again soon. Thank you so much. All right, Thank you man, to you, Thank you man. Thanks again to storm Z for talking through his new album with Rick. You can hear this Is what I Mean along with all of our favorite storm Z songs on my playlist at broken record podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast. We can find all of our new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter Broken Record. Broken Record is produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrell, Ben Holiday, Eric Sandler, Jennifer Sanchez. Our editor Sophie Crane. Our executive producer is Mia LaBelle. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content an uninterrupted ad free listening for four ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts subscriptions, and if you like our show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast staff. Our theme musics by Kenny beats On Justin Richmond