Today the interviewer becomes the interviewee. In his nearly 40-year career as a producer, Rick Rubin has helped unlock creativity and inspire musical genius time and time again. The artists he’s worked with often say that one of Rick’s superpowers is his expert ability to listen deeply, and to help guide whoever he’s working with to find their deepest expression of truth.

This month Rick released his first book, called The Creative Act: A Way Of Being. In it he shares practical principles on how anyone can generate creative authenticity and ultimately find their voice.

On today’s episode Malcolm Gladwell talks to Rick about The Creative Act, and they explore the principles in the book that are applicable to feelings of stagnation beyond artistic life. Rick talks about why he believes creativity comes from external forces rather than internal ones, and he explains why he believes that self expression isn’t actually about you.