Pushkin. Hey, y'all's justin Richmond. Today on the show, we have twenty seven year old British singer songwriter Nilafer Yanja. Nilafer Yanja is a West London native who comes from a background as diverse as her city. All of that finds its way into her music, overlaid with her rich voice. After several years of hitting London small stages and open mics with her guitar, Nillifer broke through in twenty sixteen with a series of soulful indie poppy pas and singles that started leading to some critical acclaim. I spoke with Nilapher in April, just after her performance at the first weekend of Coachella about the release of her second album, Painless. The album's tracks, laden with electronic drums and rockets guitar, play like a diary entry wrenched with heartbreak, loss and hope. Painless follow Nilla Fer's debut album, Miss Universe, which also hinted at her fascination with nineties alt rock melodies. On today's episode, Nilafer shares the collaborative songwriting process she has that created her new album with her producer Will Archer and friend saxophonist and multi instrumentalist Jazzy Bobby. She also talks about writing her first songs at ten years old and about how she always dreamed of being a guitarist in a band, not a solo act. This is broken record liner notes for the digital age. I'm justin Richard. Before we get to my conversation with Nila Freyanya, here's a live performance of her song The Dealer with frequent collaborator Jazzy Bobby. It's been baking on my mind. Oh seems to lose me for the time, for count the decision you are for You are someone to life and smell like you to say, said speaking to the bone. Can somebody see? Somebody says I might ends up be all alone this smart bush, I need some time to I can't, They says, I need to know that wh umty the was the kind of pace she spakes your part, Baby, it's me that stake that set apart. I should start. Sh Goes can eat our set and stop, Patien star shot Goes can eat our sight and stop. It's been hing on my mind since I live all the time. I gonna tell a decision who I phone. You are someone to life? No nothing lost beving that do the times come back soon? Somebody asks, I hope it's just the summer time to call touch two. I need some time to work out this sit I need to Nona who Undy. What is the kind of patience takes your part? Baby? It's need a stake. I sat part m patien sta. She goes, can't eat on satin and stop patient STA. She goes, can't eat on satin, stop patient stats. She goes, can't eat on satin, stop patient stats. She goes. I listened to say, known, got of so, baby, but sometime to this is I need to know now what kind of patience. I haven't had the chance to see you live yet, Unfortunately, I want to correct that soon. So that was my first time sort of seeing you, you know, do something live. And the incredible thing I was realizing as I was listening is as great as the songs are, you know, in the way that they uniquely produced like on the records, Like even these you know kind of bare versions are just as good, like just in a different way. I would miss the recorded version, but those are so good. Thank you. I'm glad you think so. You never know if you've gone like too far away from the original version. Yeah, it's always fun to like, yeah, things out and maybe wonder how you like write the songs because they stand alone so well away from the production. But then like on the recordings, there's so much production going on, Like are you writing them with all of that stuff in mind, all the stuff that ends up on the record or did they sort of evolve into what people here on the releases? I mean it depends, Like broadly speaking, when I'm writing, there's not much production involved at the early stages, like I'll just be playing something on guitar or working something out and then taking it to the studio and then working on it from there. Once I kind of have the song. But for this record, a lot of it was made like in the studio. So I was working with my friend Will Archer, and he had a lot of not like all the produced kind of effects in there, but a lot of it was kind of feeding the process as we went along. Did you write a lot of it in studio? Yeah, So he had a lot of the guitar parts this record with like drums already in there or like effects already in then I'd write over it, I guess. Was that pretty different from Miss Universe, which was your first record, the Miss Universe was it was another kind of experiment, I guess because a lot of the songs were like old songs I've been working on for a while, and then some of them I was like writing in the studio. At what point do you bring in like say Jazzy, like you've written a song, yeah, you figure you wanted on a record. At what point do you bring someone like her into like work out parts, And you mean like for like live shows or for I guess for the records. For the songs, well, I mean Jazz wrote a couple of songs together on this record, on the new record, Like one of them was totally from scratch and one of them was more like help me, I need help. Yeah, I guess it depends. But when it comes to like doing stuff live, like I'll take it to my band, Jazzy's my band and kind of rearrange the songs or like arrange the parts for like the live shows. On the newest record, you're saying a lot of it was written in studio, So how did that work with Jazz your band? When I was working with Jazz on our song together, we just lard from the beginning together and we were writing it together and then she recorded it and produced it as Belong with You. Otherwise Jazz's not playing on the rest of the record, so mean will on most of the songs we wrote those together, recorded those I had. Ellis plays drums in my bands, come in and we do some of the drum parts, like we've already had the demo drums. Some of them are good enough to like keep, and some of them we were like, let's do live. Let's do live versions of these, and some of them is like a blend. Which ones did you end up keeping the demo drums, like, Chase me, maybe demo drubs is the right word, but like produced the first version of it. Yea, yeah, Chase Me trying to think now stabilize as a blend has like the drum machine and live drums. It's a really cool drum party. Yeah, he's kind of He's always like, why did I make this so hard when we're doing it live? Maybe the rest of them of like blends or we have live drums on that, and said, yeah, speaking of like the kind of production on this record, there's a part in the song Shameless, like maybe three quarters the way through it sounds like maybe it was a demo version of the song, which it's like you guy, it goes into like another world. Yeah, it's like piano and oboe, Yeah, some sort of ye clarinet. There we go exactly. That was Will, Like I can't only speak for him, so it felt like a very Will section as well and Will part um and that song. I was actually on the fence for a while, like, yeah, kind of what's just how I felt about it, Like something about it was almost too honest and like too up front, and it's like I felt okay writing it, but then when I was listening, like singing it, I was like, I just don't know, but I love it now. What was it about it that didn't feel right when you're singing it? I think, um, the lyrics for me, and like the melody and everything kind of felt on the place two or Guy Got You Too Simple? It just fit too well. Yeah. I feel like most people would say, like if the lyrics and the vocal melody like fit really well into the song, like that's that's like a good match. I guess. So yeah, I guess maybe it was like you know, when something falls into place and then you kind of doubt yourself. You're like, well, should it that have been so like easy got you? Maybe not easier about have been a bit more of a struggle. Yeah, well, I guess it was meant to be, you know, yeah, not only like is the rhythm in your music, but also there's like a dynamic, so many of the songs sound equally kind of loud and raucous and like quiet and beautiful at the same time, like you're looking to fit opposites together. I guess, you know. Yeah, always, I think, and it kind of takes me back to how I used to write, when I was just like always working by myself. A lot of times it kind of be a challenge because you come up with one part for a song and then I'm like, for the coolest, I don't want to do the same, so I need to come off other parts. You can't need to take yourself into another like headspace, and I come up a whole of a section and then go back to the original things and just see if they fit and see if it works together. But for me, that's how I kept things interesting for myself. So I think maybe finding ways to like keep that I don't know, I guess that's always stayed with me, trying not to do something that feels too obvious. But I think I'm learning that's totally like what's obvious to me is different to you kind of thing. So sometimes I felt like there's too many different things going on in one song, so it's like how to pull it back and how to simplify it. Yeah, because even on I guess like Midnight Sun, you know, like the ending you have like this, you know, crazy distortion going. It's amazing Sacks, beautiful sweet sound in Sacks. It makes me smile every time I hear it from Jazzy and such a cool, interesting contract. It makes the music such an interesting listen and just never know what's happening next, keep you on your toes. It definitely keeps me on myself. Yeah, I don't know. For me, that's the point of kind of writing a song. It's like just get bored up always, like if it always stays the same, or just go well, it has to be a really good reason why it's going to stay like that, or just not trip you up, or I'll surprise you. Maybe I'll get into that phase a got later. It sounds like you you've kind of had that inclination from the beginning. Even listening to like the EPs and stuff, it sounds like that's kind of there. I feel like the static maybe has changed a little bit, but it sounds like that basic element of your music, the element of surprise, has sort of always been there. Yeah. It kind of creates like for me, like attention and like a place to go to like a direction. Are there other artists that you can think of that do that in a way that's interesting to you? I mean I say this one a lot, but like PJ. Harvey A should do a cover of rid of Me at the moment with jazz Um. It sounds really good. I think that's a beautiful song. Thanks. I mean I didn't write it, so I can't say thanks. Yeah, yeah, no, it's just I find the way Harvey writes it's like kind of does a lot of that, like tension pulling release and like stripping things back and then kind of letting things go. And like for that with that song as well, it's like the guitar kind of has this really strong rhythm and then the voice just does this like kind of crazy thing. I was surprised that, you know, like a while back. I found your cover of the Pixies song Hey Yes. I was gonna say Pixies another band as you were explaining the way PJ Harvey does. You know her songs are sort of constructed, and I was like, wow, it's kind of similar with even that song, like I didn't. I was surprised you covered it. As you're explaining it, it makes a lot of sense, like there's a super strong melody, it's always going different places. That song, you know, that was one of the first songs I heard and I was like sixteen, and I was like, wow, like this makes sense, Like it makes sense. I kind of see what they're doing and I want to do the same thing. Do you remember where you heard it first? On YouTube? Just just I was like hor I was on YouTube and I was like, actually, a guitar teacher told me to listen to it. He was like, I think you're kind of like this band. I was like, okay, cool, so good. I remember I saw them you just got downe playing Coachella. I remember the first time I went to Coachella was like two thousand and four, fourteen. I built it out telling my mom and I went out through some friends and yeah, that was like their reunion show, and I remember that. I just like fucking was the craziest, Like just they're they're insane, They're amazing. Yeah, you know that's all like as well, and the lyrics as well as totally insane Blair, I have no idea to this day with I almost and I don't want to. I don't. I don't want to focus too much on what they are. Some of the lyrics are scary and like, but some of them makes sense, like, they makes sense some weird abstract ways. It's a devil between us and hears in the door. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I'm glad to make sense. It doesn't make any sense, it doesn't. It doesn't make immediate sense because each each line kind of means its own thing. Yeah, and the feeling like they wanted to vokes like them. It makes emotional sense to me at least, Yeah, emotional sense. Logical sense, it makes like and it might it might it might be like a really great meaning but makes like logically I don't know, but yeah, emotionally I'm like, yeah, it's a great, such a good band. Did you find a lot of bands through like YouTube and stuff? I think so yeah, definitely it was a very good. It worked very well for me. I still spend too much time on They're going on YouTube bowls and like old old music that is on there, and you're just like, what is this? You know, it's really interesting visually as well. It's like you all this different kind of information of like and then you get the comment. It's just like wholes like whole world. The comments are though, the comments make me, you know, not really believe in humanity too much. Though, Yeah, I mean I learned the hard way not to look at video comments. Before we pause for a quick break, let's hear Nilafer play her song Midnight Sun from her new album Painless comment book The Things a sob man to feel. Found myself a better do, so maybe be better time this chouse you still like to say say, say do this a job of riding and none snug talk, can't keep my head, don't don't blood not tell me pete and better I noticing blood and mos w left my skin. The feelings of your conking God they can justice anyway, So maybe be better. Don't chouse you still like to say say sorry, I can do it a job and now I SnO okay, can keep my head, don't don't like and for no time, pardon I never try explaining? Do you all? I say, con keep my mouth shot this time still let to say say say this raise by com face. Didn't I lose the sleeves? Always I did it for you. I felt so short. You're my best, my ship, you, my man. I so always I did it for you. Remember every life, go through it one more time, so showing me how to speak through him, think me the spinning, do so but to this joys you stop that so so sad? Do it the job of a value, and no man slung? Okay, can keep my eye supposed to low and they have not to en and never try expanding. Do you hold on sight? Can my hands up from it's still like to say so sad? This rays bout figures I dins best means always I did it for you. I felt so short You're my best, my sheet, you, my men, my son. Always I did it for you. I didn't so short you might my sheet, my son. M We're back with my conversation with Nila for Janya. When did you first start writing songs? Probably I was quite young. I had a like lots of notebooks. I was just like write lyrics in like as poetry or as no like as a song. But I didn't have like I was just I either hadn't started learning guitar yet or I didn't. I just imagined the parts and just heard them in my head kind of thing. How old would you ben ten? Like before I went to high school? Yeah, I wasn't playing guitar then, so I was just kind of writing songs where they weren't real songs. What inspired you at tend to be writing songs? That's ambitious? I just thought like bands were really cool. The idea of a rock band was really cool, and I really wanted to play guitar and being a band, I didn't want to sing them. I just wanted to be a guitar player. Yeah, playing guitar in the band. And then I thought, you know, if you have a band, you have to write the songs. So yeah, I was always interested in the songwriting. Is there a band or a group of bands early on that would have yeah, like Blink one A two, Yeah, when I was younger, like, yeah, they're one of my favorites. What you do is so far away from Yeah, I came I think I've you know, changed since then, which is good. Yeah, absolutely, But this is when I was like, you know, nine, yeah, yeah, that's a good age to be in the blink, that's that's the appropriate age. You know, very catchy songs, you know. Yeah, and they He had loads of good guitar parts and melodies. Just loved to sound as a guitar. That's funny because I feel like pop punk's an adjective that comes up when I'm reading stuff about you. It's never occurred to me like when I listened. I mean I was very young, so yeah, yeah, yeah, and I understood. So if you start writing songs at ten, but really with that like a melody, just sort of writing words but imagining their songs, when do you get a guitar? I started playing guitar maybe like eleven twelve, just kind of like a messing around on it. First at home. It was like some random guitar my granddad had given my sister. I don't think he had all the strings, and it was not very good, but it worked. It worked, and I thought it sounded really good. And then I started having some lessons. That's cool. Took her from there. It was any of your family musically inclined. Yeah, I would say everyone was kind of musically inclined. My uncle, he's a producer and like musician writer, so he was another guy who played guitar, played bass, made lots of music, had a studio where at was the studio. He was working in London for a while in like acting, and then they moved like out to the countryside build his own studio. Cool, did he anything? We would now? He did a lot of like Spanish acts, Spanish pope or Spanish pop rock, I guess. And then he was like in some like britt funk bands when he was younger. I don't know if there's anyone you would know, but his name's Joe Stiff Dvornik. He who showed myself on guitar. He would encourage me as well. And then my parents are like visual assists. So my mum got me to piano when I was younger because she loved piano. Started doing that from like seven years old. Cool. My dad, he's Turkish, so he loves taxis music. He was like musically inclined because he'd always be playing the saz what's the sas kind of a folk instrument like an ood or something not too far away. Six strings, five groups of strings, but they come in groups of like three, so they're all tuned to like the same peg, so it sounds like a double string guitar kind of. Yeah, it's a lot like has a lot of richer sound, like thinner sound as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Had did you appreciate the Turkish music you were hearing grown up? I don't think I did when I was younger, Yeah, because I didn't really get it because he played a lot of like kind of classical traditional stuff and it was a bit like my mom was really into like getting into like Mozart, and I was like, you can hear the melodies and you can understand that, but like I didn't really like appreciate it. Very grateful to have headaches, fosed, very cool. When did you start performing I started doing like open mics just by myself. I just left school, so maybe eighteen around that time, so within the last ten years. Yeah, okay, what was it coming from like just writing songs, you know, by yourself to performing them? It was abstract, like it was totally weird. Like I knew if I wanted to do music, I perhaps to kind of get used to the idea of performing. So I was really pushing myself to just get good at it, I guess, and feel comfortable with it. But it was really strange because like you write something you're playing at home, you're singing at home, or like even like recording like demos. Yeah, oh it sounds so different to how I imagine it? Why is that? And then you play it on stage and like it sounds so different power imagine it? Had you been recording demos at that point, Yeah, I've done a few demos at school with my friends for music class, I guess as well. And then I did record a song on my uncle studio as well. Yeah that was cool. Did it ever come out or now it was on YouTube for a long time a video as well. Yeah, yeah, I'd love to hear that. Oh my god. No, did performing then? Did it change the way you wrote after that? I think so a little bit. Yeah, because in my head, I guess I was always writing for like an imaginary band, so like the guitar parts I wrote were like more like little riff, and then when I was on stage, I was like, oh my god, like how is this? It's kind of hard to sometimes it doesn't have all the components of like rhythm like too strongly in there. So kind of building an accompaniment for the voice is different for like building parts of the guitar. Yeah, so I don't know if it changed it too much. I was kind of aware of it. Probably definitely allf we did this is the process you countar playing super rhythmic. Thank you. I feel like I can hear the drum parts even if there's no drums. You know, when did you give up on the band dream, like just being a guitarist. No, I did have some bonds at school. Yeah. At the beginning, I was like, no, I'm not saying not singing, And then when I got a bit older, I was like, that my song, so I have to sing that. And you met Jazzy who played sax for us here at school? Right? Yeah? We met on music tour? What is that? What's on? What's music tour? Our school had a really cool music department, And I think it was when I was thirteen, Me and Jazz became friends because we were sharing her toe over What did you guys bond over? I think just the experience, I guess, I like, yeah, we were in Prague, so you're performing these songs and you're writing songs. Not all that long ago, eight nine years ago? When did it happen that you got signed and were able to record your first record? So I got signed to my label. I want to say, like twenty seventeen eighteen, How did that come about? I was releasing EPs up until that point with another label, but it wasn't like like a steal. You were just part of like more of a collective. Yeah, it was more a bit more relaxed, but we were releasing EPs and that was really fun. I was like things start to think about, like okay, album next, like how do how do I want to do this? Because should I work with? I was trying to find new labels or find different labels for me. The EP part was like really exciting because it's like to get from like having no kind of connections to releasing music physically like vinyls as well. That felt like a big jump. But I go from the EPC the album kind of made more sense because it's like I kind of already had a manager in place, already had kind of connections and people helping me. Yeah, but I think before that, getting to the EP stage, it was like, how am I going to do this? Yeah? Right, this is really hard? Interesting? Yeah where did you record those EPs? In London? Yeah? Against, but like at home or in a studio with different producers that I was working with at the time. I hadn't like found like one person. I was like, this is person, Like we're going to make all the music together. It was I was kind of like China, different engineers, different producers, making a lot of demos. We'll be right back with more from Nilla for Yanja after a quick break. Before we get back to the rest of my conversation with Nilla for Yanya, let's hear a live performance of one of her newest songs, Chase men feel that need no more chases. Let me make hathway to Hugh Babies, no fan Amon anymore spaces are gonna make haathway to you, baby slump my stock goados head a room, chase me you who babies, Peanut wid you baby all go sazy crazy hazy. And I can make no friends because I can make no sence because I can't. Baby ten feels like so bad calming and feels like soul that scarring. It feels like sol and gol and he's like con said son as Bison's bad drug, and he's like the concert song, it's not flooding chases name you make hath flay to you, who baby is not fan anymore? Spaces aver make hath fay to you baby snow my stock goados he over chase me you babies mean, ain't why you baby all go sazing hazy hazy, SnO the way you ain't in snow the way you said it's snow the way we man feels like so bad calling and feels like so that starving. It's like solid girl, and it was like Co sad song as this stands hard a job and it was like Co sad song, It's nothing that need no more chases lending make half way to you, who babies fan on on anymore? Spaces of the me half way to you babies not my song to go ridos in a will chase me to you? Who babies mean? Ain't white to you baby? Oh go sazy hazy hazy Ti too long time, too love Time Too long, sister of T too Love TI Too love Long, tell me at a little bit about how could ravel went. That's kind of a pretty big gig, right, it was interesting, a lot of traveling, and then the changeover is like really quick, so lots of things went wrong in that changeover, had to cut a song, like just things aren't working because it was like first gig the tour, so those things are going to go wrong, but we pulled off, I think yeah, and I had fun and like the crowd was nice. It was just like it was a quite overwhelming experience. You mean you've done other festival dates. Ye, did it feel different? The last thing we did was like a EU and UK tour. To change from that to like just straight at festival, everything's a mess. Yeah, it's totally kind of different. I was like, oh, I can't hear anything. It's kind of what festivals are like generally kind of chaotic mess, very chaotic, And yeah, the Cloud seems to enjoy it, so I can't really complain. I guess following you on Instagram and search, seems like you travel quite a bit, and I'm curious, like what, like how travel either just informs you as a person and maybe also informs your music if it are like it seems like it's an important part of your life, right, yeah, I would say, I mean definitely with music, like being able to travel and play shows in different places, especially like during the pandemic, Like I kind of realized how massive that is of a privilege to be able to do that. Not everyone gets to travel, and not everyone gets to travel because of the job or the music, So it feels it's really amazing when those two things come together. I just never want to take that for granted, I guess, and then it's just a I just think it's a great thing to be able to do, like when you can have family in different places. So also feels a bit like necessity. I guess that that old saying that people say about boiling your mind, it really does, because it physically you take yourself out of your everyday environment. And then when your song totally different, you can't think about normal things because you're just so like caught up in the moment of oh, how do I do this? Or where do I go? Or like how does this work? You're always having to improvise. Where's your family at. I have some family in Turkey. I haven't seen them in a while, so I'd like to do that next. My mom's from Barbados and Island, so I have plans to go talk the Caribbean soon. Yeah. We still go to Island quite a bit when I was younger. I think, yeah, everyone in my family kind of likes moving as well, so really yeah, kind of not moving like physical like moving house, but just movement, being on the move. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Most of my immediate family, they all live in London. Did you feel like steeped in all the various cultures growing up? But did you just feel did you just feel English? It's interesting, Yeah, I don't really, It's kind of hard to remember. I guess exactly what you feel like. But I was aware of like these two very different things happening in my family, and like two different kind of sides. I guess to it because like my mum's side, she grew up in London, so I think she very much has that identity. And my dad came from Estanbul and like very much carries that identity with him. So on one side, my mom family was Catholic and my dad's Muslim. Those two things alone are like this is very different, and you kind of sense that growing up. But I think the beauty of like growing up in London is that everyone comes from different places, so you don't feel like you have to be you have to kind of be one thing, right, Yeah, I'm very grateful for that. You can embrace the Yeah, you can embrace the class definitely have to try to anyway. So that's fascinating me. That's really that's wildly different. It's like wildly different just day to day, like the way as a Muslim and as a just like things like Christmas. I was always like, oh, um, like does that work? Well? My dad would always go to Turkey to see his family then because he was teaching as well, so he had like time off when they were holidays in the UK, so he's always goes to his family and then yeah, it's beaut with my mum's family. But Christmas and that, No, I still love Christmas, but it's like that you get that sense like oh, I'm not meant to, I'm not supposed to or this isn't really my culture, but it is at the same time. So as you do get all, do you realize like there is an individual self? Yeah, that exists alongside those things. I'm next to it, but I'm not necessarily you know, it doesn't dictate everything in my life. Yeah, And I think that's where music that always helped me stay kind of saying because it's like that's my own thing kind of just for me in a way, and it's always helped me understand or even like pushed me to do things I wouldn't do or like kind of just grow. But it doesn't have to connect with your like where you come from, like your culture, identities or religion. Like it doesn't have to do it. It doesn't have to connect those things unless you want it to. Writing music always felt like I didn't have to do that. I mean, like no one asked me to do, you know what I mean. It's like I just I just enjoyed it and I thought it was fun and like I knew it's what I wanted to do. It didn't really make sense to like anyone else. I think it was kind of like just not my own thing. Yeah, Like for a while, I was like stuck between like, oh music a lot, like what should I do like UNI, or like what should I study? It's really ambitious to be like ten, and like I loved music when I was ten, but I was not writing you know songs, are attempting to write songs when I was ten and then like to like you know, by the time you're sixteen seventeen, you're out performing and like you're like, this is what I want to do and this is my thing. Like that's a really I don't know, evolved like way to approach something that you enjoy. You know, most people enjoy things like they just participate at the fan level and you're like, you know, I don't know necessarily how or but I'm gonna make this. I'm gonna do it. That's what's interesting about kids. I guess it's like how did they come up with these ideas? Like it's still perplexed by Yeah, I guess I just felt like I had to do it. I think. Also, and like Nope, when I kind of was getting like growing up, I was quite like shying resolved. So it's like I still am like that I knew like if I didn't do it, I was never going to do it, kind of thing like if you if you just didn't jump. Yeah, if I didn't make myself do it, then I might not ever do it. I was quite like catalo of that kind of natural like desire to like want to please people, I think, But I was also kind of aware of like maybe like what I actually wanted to do for myself. So it's like I could always do things that people tell you to do, but then you can also just also do your own saying. So music was like subtle way of rebellion A yea yeah, people pleasing tendency, and then you felt like if you didn't jump right in and like put yourself to do shows, which you might feel like you're otherwise too shy to do, like you maybe would lose all of it. Like maybe you wouldn't just write songs by yourself. Who knows what you would miss out on? Right? Yeah? Do you think you would have kept writing just kind of personally, like as a hobby or just for a personal fulfillment if you hadn't pursued it a professional Yeah, And I kind of wonder like that would kind of also be interesting because maybe I'd be better something else. Maybe I'd be good at doing two things. What do you think it would be? I don't know, like what if I was like writing books or maybe my songwriting would have evolved just differently, Like I don't know why I felt the rush in the panic. Yeah, yeah, to do it, Like I could have just taken my time. It's impressive though, it's really impressive. Okay, So do you still feel a certain amount of innate pressure on yourself or like like you're in a bit of a hurry to do things, like you feel like you got to keep moving or else or are you going to stall? Yes? Yeah, And I'm trying to like tell myself like it doesn't it's not real. That's just what's in my head. Like you can stall or you can't stop, you can break relax, yeah, just relaxing. Yeah, And like, um, I always aim to like work more slowly. That's like my current aim, like all the time, take more time, make it slow, like don't rush it. Yeah, are you making stuff now? His writing? I'm not really writing at the moment. I keep having like weird dreams where I'm like buying songs Like I'm like like I've never really done that before, like written something that I've heard in a dream. But like I've been trying to because I keep hearing stuff. Oh you gotta you gotta take it down. Yeah. But it's like you know when you work up your voices, like yeah, you're like recording to your fine like it's always sounded this morning. I always I always think of um like Satisfaction was written that way. I read in the bo Keith Richards was like asleep, like dead asleep and like dreamt like of the song and then like woke up and was like, oh fucking like grab your recorder and like just like bump bump blah blah bamah. I was like, fuck. I imagine if Keith Richards didn't stumble out of bed from some in some hotel room, you know, probably you know, fucked up and record that, Like god damn, we wouldn't have that song. It kind of comes from the same kind of place. It's like distinctive kind of melody and just idea. So it's like when you're a sleeper week it doesn't even make a difference. Yeah, I mean it's all I'm sure equally good and equally bad ideas. Yeah, yeah, exactly, Yeah, coming you're sleep, you know, and out of sleep. Yeah, it's definitely that place where you're you're you're turned off to the conscious mind. Yeah, it kind of makes more sense of your dreaming. Yeah, when people are like it just appeared, it's just from the star, it's like, how I feel like, maybe you got to sleep with the recorder. I mean you have your phone. Yeah, you got to just do it. Yes, true? Cool. Well, thank you for taking the time to play some stuff. Thank you, there's a real pleasure. Yeah, catch you next time. Thanks to Nila for Yanya for coming on Broken Record to talk about her life, career and her latest album. You can hear all of our favorite Nilla for Yanya songs on a playlist at broken Record podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast, where you can find all of our new episodes. You can allow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced with help from Lea Rose, Jason Gambrel, Bentaladay, Eric Sandler, and Jennifer Sanchez, with engineering help from Nick Chaffey. Our executive producer is Mia Lavell. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you like this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content an uninterrupted ad free listening for four ninety nine on a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you'd like the show, please remember to share, rate and review us on your podcast, Apple, our theme music. Expect any beats. I'm Justin Richmond,

Pushkin. Hey, y'all's justin Richmond. Today on the show, we have twenty seven year old British singer songwriter Nilafer Yanja. Nilafer Yanja is a West London native who comes from a background as diverse as her city. All of that finds its way into her music, overlaid with her rich voice. After several years of hitting London small stages and open mics with her guitar, Nillifer broke through in twenty sixteen with a series of soulful indie poppy pas and singles that started leading to some critical acclaim. I spoke with Nilapher in April, just after her performance at the first weekend of Coachella about the release of her second album, Painless. The album's tracks, laden with electronic drums and rockets guitar, play like a diary entry wrenched with heartbreak, loss and hope. Painless follow Nilla Fer's debut album, Miss Universe, which also hinted at her fascination with nineties alt rock melodies. On today's episode, Nilafer shares the collaborative songwriting process she has that created her new album with her producer Will Archer and friend saxophonist and multi instrumentalist Jazzy Bobby. She also talks about writing her first songs at ten years old and about how she always dreamed of being a guitarist in a band, not a solo act. This is broken record liner notes for the digital age. I'm justin Richard. Before we get to my conversation with Nila Freyanya, here's a live performance of her song The Dealer with frequent collaborator Jazzy Bobby. It's been baking on my mind. Oh seems to lose me for the time, for count the decision you are for You are someone to life and smell like you to say, said speaking to the bone. Can somebody see? Somebody says I might ends up be all alone this smart bush, I need some time to I can't, They says, I need to know that wh umty the was the kind of pace she spakes your part, Baby, it's me that stake that set apart. I should start. Sh Goes can eat our set and stop, Patien star shot Goes can eat our sight and stop. It's been hing on my mind since I live all the time. I gonna tell a decision who I phone. You are someone to life? No nothing lost beving that do the times come back soon? Somebody asks, I hope it's just the summer time to call touch two. I need some time to work out this sit I need to Nona who Undy. What is the kind of patience takes your part? Baby? It's need a stake. I sat part m patien sta. She goes, can't eat on satin and stop patient STA. She goes, can't eat on satin, stop patient stats. She goes, can't eat on satin, stop patient stats. She goes. I listened to say, known, got of so, baby, but sometime to this is I need to know now what kind of patience. I haven't had the chance to see you live yet, Unfortunately, I want to correct that soon. So that was my first time sort of seeing you, you know, do something live. And the incredible thing I was realizing as I was listening is as great as the songs are, you know, in the way that they uniquely produced like on the records, Like even these you know kind of bare versions are just as good, like just in a different way. I would miss the recorded version, but those are so good. Thank you. I'm glad you think so. You never know if you've gone like too far away from the original version. Yeah, it's always fun to like, yeah, things out and maybe wonder how you like write the songs because they stand alone so well away from the production. But then like on the recordings, there's so much production going on, Like are you writing them with all of that stuff in mind, all the stuff that ends up on the record or did they sort of evolve into what people here on the releases? I mean it depends, Like broadly speaking, when I'm writing, there's not much production involved at the early stages, like I'll just be playing something on guitar or working something out and then taking it to the studio and then working on it from there. Once I kind of have the song. But for this record, a lot of it was made like in the studio. So I was working with my friend Will Archer, and he had a lot of not like all the produced kind of effects in there, but a lot of it was kind of feeding the process as we went along. Did you write a lot of it in studio? Yeah, So he had a lot of the guitar parts this record with like drums already in there or like effects already in then I'd write over it, I guess. Was that pretty different from Miss Universe, which was your first record, the Miss Universe was it was another kind of experiment, I guess because a lot of the songs were like old songs I've been working on for a while, and then some of them I was like writing in the studio. At what point do you bring in like say Jazzy, like you've written a song, yeah, you figure you wanted on a record. At what point do you bring someone like her into like work out parts, And you mean like for like live shows or for I guess for the records. For the songs, well, I mean Jazz wrote a couple of songs together on this record, on the new record, Like one of them was totally from scratch and one of them was more like help me, I need help. Yeah, I guess it depends. But when it comes to like doing stuff live, like I'll take it to my band, Jazzy's my band and kind of rearrange the songs or like arrange the parts for like the live shows. On the newest record, you're saying a lot of it was written in studio, So how did that work with Jazz your band? When I was working with Jazz on our song together, we just lard from the beginning together and we were writing it together and then she recorded it and produced it as Belong with You. Otherwise Jazz's not playing on the rest of the record, so mean will on most of the songs we wrote those together, recorded those I had. Ellis plays drums in my bands, come in and we do some of the drum parts, like we've already had the demo drums. Some of them are good enough to like keep, and some of them we were like, let's do live. Let's do live versions of these, and some of them is like a blend. Which ones did you end up keeping the demo drums, like, Chase me, maybe demo drubs is the right word, but like produced the first version of it. Yea, yeah, Chase Me trying to think now stabilize as a blend has like the drum machine and live drums. It's a really cool drum party. Yeah, he's kind of He's always like, why did I make this so hard when we're doing it live? Maybe the rest of them of like blends or we have live drums on that, and said, yeah, speaking of like the kind of production on this record, there's a part in the song Shameless, like maybe three quarters the way through it sounds like maybe it was a demo version of the song, which it's like you guy, it goes into like another world. Yeah, it's like piano and oboe, Yeah, some sort of ye clarinet. There we go exactly. That was Will, Like I can't only speak for him, so it felt like a very Will section as well and Will part um and that song. I was actually on the fence for a while, like, yeah, kind of what's just how I felt about it, Like something about it was almost too honest and like too up front, and it's like I felt okay writing it, but then when I was listening, like singing it, I was like, I just don't know, but I love it now. What was it about it that didn't feel right when you're singing it? I think, um, the lyrics for me, and like the melody and everything kind of felt on the place two or Guy Got You Too Simple? It just fit too well. Yeah. I feel like most people would say, like if the lyrics and the vocal melody like fit really well into the song, like that's that's like a good match. I guess. So yeah, I guess maybe it was like you know, when something falls into place and then you kind of doubt yourself. You're like, well, should it that have been so like easy got you? Maybe not easier about have been a bit more of a struggle. Yeah, well, I guess it was meant to be, you know, yeah, not only like is the rhythm in your music, but also there's like a dynamic, so many of the songs sound equally kind of loud and raucous and like quiet and beautiful at the same time, like you're looking to fit opposites together. I guess, you know. Yeah, always, I think, and it kind of takes me back to how I used to write, when I was just like always working by myself. A lot of times it kind of be a challenge because you come up with one part for a song and then I'm like, for the coolest, I don't want to do the same, so I need to come off other parts. You can't need to take yourself into another like headspace, and I come up a whole of a section and then go back to the original things and just see if they fit and see if it works together. But for me, that's how I kept things interesting for myself. So I think maybe finding ways to like keep that I don't know, I guess that's always stayed with me, trying not to do something that feels too obvious. But I think I'm learning that's totally like what's obvious to me is different to you kind of thing. So sometimes I felt like there's too many different things going on in one song, so it's like how to pull it back and how to simplify it. Yeah, because even on I guess like Midnight Sun, you know, like the ending you have like this, you know, crazy distortion going. It's amazing Sacks, beautiful sweet sound in Sacks. It makes me smile every time I hear it from Jazzy and such a cool, interesting contract. It makes the music such an interesting listen and just never know what's happening next, keep you on your toes. It definitely keeps me on myself. Yeah, I don't know. For me, that's the point of kind of writing a song. It's like just get bored up always, like if it always stays the same, or just go well, it has to be a really good reason why it's going to stay like that, or just not trip you up, or I'll surprise you. Maybe I'll get into that phase a got later. It sounds like you you've kind of had that inclination from the beginning. Even listening to like the EPs and stuff, it sounds like that's kind of there. I feel like the static maybe has changed a little bit, but it sounds like that basic element of your music, the element of surprise, has sort of always been there. Yeah. It kind of creates like for me, like attention and like a place to go to like a direction. Are there other artists that you can think of that do that in a way that's interesting to you? I mean I say this one a lot, but like PJ. Harvey A should do a cover of rid of Me at the moment with jazz Um. It sounds really good. I think that's a beautiful song. Thanks. I mean I didn't write it, so I can't say thanks. Yeah, yeah, no, it's just I find the way Harvey writes it's like kind of does a lot of that, like tension pulling release and like stripping things back and then kind of letting things go. And like for that with that song as well, it's like the guitar kind of has this really strong rhythm and then the voice just does this like kind of crazy thing. I was surprised that, you know, like a while back. I found your cover of the Pixies song Hey Yes. I was gonna say Pixies another band as you were explaining the way PJ Harvey does. You know her songs are sort of constructed, and I was like, wow, it's kind of similar with even that song, like I didn't. I was surprised you covered it. As you're explaining it, it makes a lot of sense, like there's a super strong melody, it's always going different places. That song, you know, that was one of the first songs I heard and I was like sixteen, and I was like, wow, like this makes sense, Like it makes sense. I kind of see what they're doing and I want to do the same thing. Do you remember where you heard it first? On YouTube? Just just I was like hor I was on YouTube and I was like, actually, a guitar teacher told me to listen to it. He was like, I think you're kind of like this band. I was like, okay, cool, so good. I remember I saw them you just got downe playing Coachella. I remember the first time I went to Coachella was like two thousand and four, fourteen. I built it out telling my mom and I went out through some friends and yeah, that was like their reunion show, and I remember that. I just like fucking was the craziest, Like just they're they're insane, They're amazing. Yeah, you know that's all like as well, and the lyrics as well as totally insane Blair, I have no idea to this day with I almost and I don't want to. I don't. I don't want to focus too much on what they are. Some of the lyrics are scary and like, but some of them makes sense, like, they makes sense some weird abstract ways. It's a devil between us and hears in the door. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I'm glad to make sense. It doesn't make any sense, it doesn't. It doesn't make immediate sense because each each line kind of means its own thing. Yeah, and the feeling like they wanted to vokes like them. It makes emotional sense to me at least, Yeah, emotional sense. Logical sense, it makes like and it might it might it might be like a really great meaning but makes like logically I don't know, but yeah, emotionally I'm like, yeah, it's a great, such a good band. Did you find a lot of bands through like YouTube and stuff? I think so yeah, definitely it was a very good. It worked very well for me. I still spend too much time on They're going on YouTube bowls and like old old music that is on there, and you're just like, what is this? You know, it's really interesting visually as well. It's like you all this different kind of information of like and then you get the comment. It's just like wholes like whole world. The comments are though, the comments make me, you know, not really believe in humanity too much. Though, Yeah, I mean I learned the hard way not to look at video comments. Before we pause for a quick break, let's hear Nilafer play her song Midnight Sun from her new album Painless comment book The Things a sob man to feel. Found myself a better do, so maybe be better time this chouse you still like to say say, say do this a job of riding and none snug talk, can't keep my head, don't don't blood not tell me pete and better I noticing blood and mos w left my skin. The feelings of your conking God they can justice anyway, So maybe be better. Don't chouse you still like to say say sorry, I can do it a job and now I SnO okay, can keep my head, don't don't like and for no time, pardon I never try explaining? Do you all? I say, con keep my mouth shot this time still let to say say say this raise by com face. Didn't I lose the sleeves? Always I did it for you. I felt so short. You're my best, my ship, you, my man. I so always I did it for you. Remember every life, go through it one more time, so showing me how to speak through him, think me the spinning, do so but to this joys you stop that so so sad? Do it the job of a value, and no man slung? Okay, can keep my eye supposed to low and they have not to en and never try expanding. Do you hold on sight? Can my hands up from it's still like to say so sad? This rays bout figures I dins best means always I did it for you. I felt so short You're my best, my sheet, you, my men, my son. Always I did it for you. I didn't so short you might my sheet, my son. M We're back with my conversation with Nila for Janya. When did you first start writing songs? Probably I was quite young. I had a like lots of notebooks. I was just like write lyrics in like as poetry or as no like as a song. But I didn't have like I was just I either hadn't started learning guitar yet or I didn't. I just imagined the parts and just heard them in my head kind of thing. How old would you ben ten? Like before I went to high school? Yeah, I wasn't playing guitar then, so I was just kind of writing songs where they weren't real songs. What inspired you at tend to be writing songs? That's ambitious? I just thought like bands were really cool. The idea of a rock band was really cool, and I really wanted to play guitar and being a band, I didn't want to sing them. I just wanted to be a guitar player. Yeah, playing guitar in the band. And then I thought, you know, if you have a band, you have to write the songs. So yeah, I was always interested in the songwriting. Is there a band or a group of bands early on that would have yeah, like Blink one A two, Yeah, when I was younger, like, yeah, they're one of my favorites. What you do is so far away from Yeah, I came I think I've you know, changed since then, which is good. Yeah, absolutely, But this is when I was like, you know, nine, yeah, yeah, that's a good age to be in the blink, that's that's the appropriate age. You know, very catchy songs, you know. Yeah, and they He had loads of good guitar parts and melodies. Just loved to sound as a guitar. That's funny because I feel like pop punk's an adjective that comes up when I'm reading stuff about you. It's never occurred to me like when I listened. I mean I was very young, so yeah, yeah, yeah, and I understood. So if you start writing songs at ten, but really with that like a melody, just sort of writing words but imagining their songs, when do you get a guitar? I started playing guitar maybe like eleven twelve, just kind of like a messing around on it. First at home. It was like some random guitar my granddad had given my sister. I don't think he had all the strings, and it was not very good, but it worked. It worked, and I thought it sounded really good. And then I started having some lessons. That's cool. Took her from there. It was any of your family musically inclined. Yeah, I would say everyone was kind of musically inclined. My uncle, he's a producer and like musician writer, so he was another guy who played guitar, played bass, made lots of music, had a studio where at was the studio. He was working in London for a while in like acting, and then they moved like out to the countryside build his own studio. Cool, did he anything? We would now? He did a lot of like Spanish acts, Spanish pope or Spanish pop rock, I guess. And then he was like in some like britt funk bands when he was younger. I don't know if there's anyone you would know, but his name's Joe Stiff Dvornik. He who showed myself on guitar. He would encourage me as well. And then my parents are like visual assists. So my mum got me to piano when I was younger because she loved piano. Started doing that from like seven years old. Cool. My dad, he's Turkish, so he loves taxis music. He was like musically inclined because he'd always be playing the saz what's the sas kind of a folk instrument like an ood or something not too far away. Six strings, five groups of strings, but they come in groups of like three, so they're all tuned to like the same peg, so it sounds like a double string guitar kind of. Yeah, it's a lot like has a lot of richer sound, like thinner sound as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Had did you appreciate the Turkish music you were hearing grown up? I don't think I did when I was younger, Yeah, because I didn't really get it because he played a lot of like kind of classical traditional stuff and it was a bit like my mom was really into like getting into like Mozart, and I was like, you can hear the melodies and you can understand that, but like I didn't really like appreciate it. Very grateful to have headaches, fosed, very cool. When did you start performing I started doing like open mics just by myself. I just left school, so maybe eighteen around that time, so within the last ten years. Yeah, okay, what was it coming from like just writing songs, you know, by yourself to performing them? It was abstract, like it was totally weird. Like I knew if I wanted to do music, I perhaps to kind of get used to the idea of performing. So I was really pushing myself to just get good at it, I guess, and feel comfortable with it. But it was really strange because like you write something you're playing at home, you're singing at home, or like even like recording like demos. Yeah, oh it sounds so different to how I imagine it? Why is that? And then you play it on stage and like it sounds so different power imagine it? Had you been recording demos at that point, Yeah, I've done a few demos at school with my friends for music class, I guess as well. And then I did record a song on my uncle studio as well. Yeah that was cool. Did it ever come out or now it was on YouTube for a long time a video as well. Yeah, yeah, I'd love to hear that. Oh my god. No, did performing then? Did it change the way you wrote after that? I think so a little bit. Yeah, because in my head, I guess I was always writing for like an imaginary band, so like the guitar parts I wrote were like more like little riff, and then when I was on stage, I was like, oh my god, like how is this? It's kind of hard to sometimes it doesn't have all the components of like rhythm like too strongly in there. So kind of building an accompaniment for the voice is different for like building parts of the guitar. Yeah, so I don't know if it changed it too much. I was kind of aware of it. Probably definitely allf we did this is the process you countar playing super rhythmic. Thank you. I feel like I can hear the drum parts even if there's no drums. You know, when did you give up on the band dream, like just being a guitarist. No, I did have some bonds at school. Yeah. At the beginning, I was like, no, I'm not saying not singing, And then when I got a bit older, I was like, that my song, so I have to sing that. And you met Jazzy who played sax for us here at school? Right? Yeah? We met on music tour? What is that? What's on? What's music tour? Our school had a really cool music department, And I think it was when I was thirteen, Me and Jazz became friends because we were sharing her toe over What did you guys bond over? I think just the experience, I guess, I like, yeah, we were in Prague, so you're performing these songs and you're writing songs. Not all that long ago, eight nine years ago? When did it happen that you got signed and were able to record your first record? So I got signed to my label. I want to say, like twenty seventeen eighteen, How did that come about? I was releasing EPs up until that point with another label, but it wasn't like like a steal. You were just part of like more of a collective. Yeah, it was more a bit more relaxed, but we were releasing EPs and that was really fun. I was like things start to think about, like okay, album next, like how do how do I want to do this? Because should I work with? I was trying to find new labels or find different labels for me. The EP part was like really exciting because it's like to get from like having no kind of connections to releasing music physically like vinyls as well. That felt like a big jump. But I go from the EPC the album kind of made more sense because it's like I kind of already had a manager in place, already had kind of connections and people helping me. Yeah, but I think before that, getting to the EP stage, it was like, how am I going to do this? Yeah? Right, this is really hard? Interesting? Yeah where did you record those EPs? In London? Yeah? Against, but like at home or in a studio with different producers that I was working with at the time. I hadn't like found like one person. I was like, this is person, Like we're going to make all the music together. It was I was kind of like China, different engineers, different producers, making a lot of demos. We'll be right back with more from Nilla for Yanja after a quick break. Before we get back to the rest of my conversation with Nilla for Yanya, let's hear a live performance of one of her newest songs, Chase men feel that need no more chases. Let me make hathway to Hugh Babies, no fan Amon anymore spaces are gonna make haathway to you, baby slump my stock goados head a room, chase me you who babies, Peanut wid you baby all go sazy crazy hazy. And I can make no friends because I can make no sence because I can't. Baby ten feels like so bad calming and feels like soul that scarring. It feels like sol and gol and he's like con said son as Bison's bad drug, and he's like the concert song, it's not flooding chases name you make hath flay to you, who baby is not fan anymore? Spaces aver make hath fay to you baby snow my stock goados he over chase me you babies mean, ain't why you baby all go sazing hazy hazy, SnO the way you ain't in snow the way you said it's snow the way we man feels like so bad calling and feels like so that starving. It's like solid girl, and it was like Co sad song as this stands hard a job and it was like Co sad song, It's nothing that need no more chases lending make half way to you, who babies fan on on anymore? Spaces of the me half way to you babies not my song to go ridos in a will chase me to you? Who babies mean? Ain't white to you baby? Oh go sazy hazy hazy Ti too long time, too love Time Too long, sister of T too Love TI Too love Long, tell me at a little bit about how could ravel went. That's kind of a pretty big gig, right, it was interesting, a lot of traveling, and then the changeover is like really quick, so lots of things went wrong in that changeover, had to cut a song, like just things aren't working because it was like first gig the tour, so those things are going to go wrong, but we pulled off, I think yeah, and I had fun and like the crowd was nice. It was just like it was a quite overwhelming experience. You mean you've done other festival dates. Ye, did it feel different? The last thing we did was like a EU and UK tour. To change from that to like just straight at festival, everything's a mess. Yeah, it's totally kind of different. I was like, oh, I can't hear anything. It's kind of what festivals are like generally kind of chaotic mess, very chaotic, And yeah, the Cloud seems to enjoy it, so I can't really complain. I guess following you on Instagram and search, seems like you travel quite a bit, and I'm curious, like what, like how travel either just informs you as a person and maybe also informs your music if it are like it seems like it's an important part of your life, right, yeah, I would say, I mean definitely with music, like being able to travel and play shows in different places, especially like during the pandemic, Like I kind of realized how massive that is of a privilege to be able to do that. Not everyone gets to travel, and not everyone gets to travel because of the job or the music, So it feels it's really amazing when those two things come together. I just never want to take that for granted, I guess, and then it's just a I just think it's a great thing to be able to do, like when you can have family in different places. So also feels a bit like necessity. I guess that that old saying that people say about boiling your mind, it really does, because it physically you take yourself out of your everyday environment. And then when your song totally different, you can't think about normal things because you're just so like caught up in the moment of oh, how do I do this? Or where do I go? Or like how does this work? You're always having to improvise. Where's your family at. I have some family in Turkey. I haven't seen them in a while, so I'd like to do that next. My mom's from Barbados and Island, so I have plans to go talk the Caribbean soon. Yeah. We still go to Island quite a bit when I was younger. I think, yeah, everyone in my family kind of likes moving as well, so really yeah, kind of not moving like physical like moving house, but just movement, being on the move. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Most of my immediate family, they all live in London. Did you feel like steeped in all the various cultures growing up? But did you just feel did you just feel English? It's interesting, Yeah, I don't really, It's kind of hard to remember. I guess exactly what you feel like. But I was aware of like these two very different things happening in my family, and like two different kind of sides. I guess to it because like my mum's side, she grew up in London, so I think she very much has that identity. And my dad came from Estanbul and like very much carries that identity with him. So on one side, my mom family was Catholic and my dad's Muslim. Those two things alone are like this is very different, and you kind of sense that growing up. But I think the beauty of like growing up in London is that everyone comes from different places, so you don't feel like you have to be you have to kind of be one thing, right, Yeah, I'm very grateful for that. You can embrace the Yeah, you can embrace the class definitely have to try to anyway. So that's fascinating me. That's really that's wildly different. It's like wildly different just day to day, like the way as a Muslim and as a just like things like Christmas. I was always like, oh, um, like does that work? Well? My dad would always go to Turkey to see his family then because he was teaching as well, so he had like time off when they were holidays in the UK, so he's always goes to his family and then yeah, it's beaut with my mum's family. But Christmas and that, No, I still love Christmas, but it's like that you get that sense like oh, I'm not meant to, I'm not supposed to or this isn't really my culture, but it is at the same time. So as you do get all, do you realize like there is an individual self? Yeah, that exists alongside those things. I'm next to it, but I'm not necessarily you know, it doesn't dictate everything in my life. Yeah, And I think that's where music that always helped me stay kind of saying because it's like that's my own thing kind of just for me in a way, and it's always helped me understand or even like pushed me to do things I wouldn't do or like kind of just grow. But it doesn't have to connect with your like where you come from, like your culture, identities or religion. Like it doesn't have to do it. It doesn't have to connect those things unless you want it to. Writing music always felt like I didn't have to do that. I mean, like no one asked me to do, you know what I mean. It's like I just I just enjoyed it and I thought it was fun and like I knew it's what I wanted to do. It didn't really make sense to like anyone else. I think it was kind of like just not my own thing. Yeah, Like for a while, I was like stuck between like, oh music a lot, like what should I do like UNI, or like what should I study? It's really ambitious to be like ten, and like I loved music when I was ten, but I was not writing you know songs, are attempting to write songs when I was ten and then like to like you know, by the time you're sixteen seventeen, you're out performing and like you're like, this is what I want to do and this is my thing. Like that's a really I don't know, evolved like way to approach something that you enjoy. You know, most people enjoy things like they just participate at the fan level and you're like, you know, I don't know necessarily how or but I'm gonna make this. I'm gonna do it. That's what's interesting about kids. I guess it's like how did they come up with these ideas? Like it's still perplexed by Yeah, I guess I just felt like I had to do it. I think. Also, and like Nope, when I kind of was getting like growing up, I was quite like shying resolved. So it's like I still am like that I knew like if I didn't do it, I was never going to do it, kind of thing like if you if you just didn't jump. Yeah, if I didn't make myself do it, then I might not ever do it. I was quite like catalo of that kind of natural like desire to like want to please people, I think, But I was also kind of aware of like maybe like what I actually wanted to do for myself. So it's like I could always do things that people tell you to do, but then you can also just also do your own saying. So music was like subtle way of rebellion A yea yeah, people pleasing tendency, and then you felt like if you didn't jump right in and like put yourself to do shows, which you might feel like you're otherwise too shy to do, like you maybe would lose all of it. Like maybe you wouldn't just write songs by yourself. Who knows what you would miss out on? Right? Yeah? Do you think you would have kept writing just kind of personally, like as a hobby or just for a personal fulfillment if you hadn't pursued it a professional Yeah, And I kind of wonder like that would kind of also be interesting because maybe I'd be better something else. Maybe I'd be good at doing two things. What do you think it would be? I don't know, like what if I was like writing books or maybe my songwriting would have evolved just differently, Like I don't know why I felt the rush in the panic. Yeah, yeah, to do it, Like I could have just taken my time. It's impressive though, it's really impressive. Okay, So do you still feel a certain amount of innate pressure on yourself or like like you're in a bit of a hurry to do things, like you feel like you got to keep moving or else or are you going to stall? Yes? Yeah, And I'm trying to like tell myself like it doesn't it's not real. That's just what's in my head. Like you can stall or you can't stop, you can break relax, yeah, just relaxing. Yeah, And like, um, I always aim to like work more slowly. That's like my current aim, like all the time, take more time, make it slow, like don't rush it. Yeah, are you making stuff now? His writing? I'm not really writing at the moment. I keep having like weird dreams where I'm like buying songs Like I'm like like I've never really done that before, like written something that I've heard in a dream. But like I've been trying to because I keep hearing stuff. Oh you gotta you gotta take it down. Yeah. But it's like you know when you work up your voices, like yeah, you're like recording to your fine like it's always sounded this morning. I always I always think of um like Satisfaction was written that way. I read in the bo Keith Richards was like asleep, like dead asleep and like dreamt like of the song and then like woke up and was like, oh fucking like grab your recorder and like just like bump bump blah blah bamah. I was like, fuck. I imagine if Keith Richards didn't stumble out of bed from some in some hotel room, you know, probably you know, fucked up and record that, Like god damn, we wouldn't have that song. It kind of comes from the same kind of place. It's like distinctive kind of melody and just idea. So it's like when you're a sleeper week it doesn't even make a difference. Yeah, I mean it's all I'm sure equally good and equally bad ideas. Yeah, yeah, exactly, Yeah, coming you're sleep, you know, and out of sleep. Yeah, it's definitely that place where you're you're you're turned off to the conscious mind. Yeah, it kind of makes more sense of your dreaming. Yeah, when people are like it just appeared, it's just from the star, it's like, how I feel like, maybe you got to sleep with the recorder. I mean you have your phone. Yeah, you got to just do it. Yes, true? Cool. Well, thank you for taking the time to play some stuff. Thank you, there's a real pleasure. Yeah, catch you next time. Thanks to Nila for Yanya for coming on Broken Record to talk about her life, career and her latest album. You can hear all of our favorite Nilla for Yanya songs on a playlist at broken Record podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast, where you can find all of our new episodes. You can allow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced with help from Lea Rose, Jason Gambrel, Bentaladay, Eric Sandler, and Jennifer Sanchez, with engineering help from Nick Chaffey. Our executive producer is Mia Lavell. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you like this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content an uninterrupted ad free listening for four ninety nine on a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you'd like the show, please remember to share, rate and review us on your podcast, Apple, our theme music. Expect any beats. I'm Justin Richmond,