Pushkin. Just a quick note here. You can listen to all of the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist, which you can find a link to in the show notes for licensing reasons, each time a song is referenced in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect. All right, enjoy the episode. I'm Malcolm Gladwell. This is Broken Record, and this episode is me and the Love Junkies at Sony Tree Studios in Nashville. I call it an interview, except I didn't really interview them. I felt like I just sat in the corner laughing and made sure the tape was running this. I know boyfriend found me last week and I have you have to hear. Well, we're gonna write a Saudi mar just sing that. Oh well, I'm playing girl crush. I know Bepher's voice. The one talking about an old boyfriend is Liz Rose. The one who said that's the line of a song right there is Lloyd McKenna. The one playing guitar who said she's playing girl crush is Hillary Lindsay. Hillary is the one who helped Lady Goga go country on a million reasons. Lloyd McKenna has written for greates like Faith Hill, Tim McGraw, and Reba McIntyre. Liz co wrote over half the songs on Taylor Swift's debut album. They are three of the best songwriters working in Nashville today, and every now and again they hang out and write songs together as the Love Junkies. We caught a glimpse of how they work when they were setting up and Laurie and Hillary decided that Liz's chance encounter with an old boyfriend deserve to be turned into a song. Oh shit, Okay, I'm sure you other things. This is fantastic. This is fantastic, is so much better anything else. We have to move on. We're going to remember that, Adam, do you have a recording of that that we can steal for me? Thank you? How did you guys meet? They knew each other first, right, Yeah, we'd been writing for Liz was one of the first. So when I came to town, I got a publishing deal in two thousand and five, and I had never co written a song. You came, You came down here from Boston. Yeah, I came like I got a publishing deal, so like I came down to do trips. I never lived here, but I just would fly down. And my publisher was like, we should co write songs, and I had never done it. I'd just been writing just it just seemed so difficult to try to do this with other people. And so my first co write I think was Mark D. Sanders and Liz was maybe my third or fourth, and they put me in a room with and really, over the couple of years following, she taught me how to co write a song like I didn't know. I was with Mark de like I had just great people they put me with in the beginning. That taught me how the process works, and I literally fell in love with it, like I lived. So we had written a bunch you guys had written, not together. We had written oddly enough, and never actually sat in a room with each other. Because she had started a song with Taylor Swift and then Taylor came to my house to write one day, just Taylor and I, and she was like, Hey, do you want to maybe help me out with this song that I started with Liz Rose? And I'm like, I don't know. I don't I don't really know Liz. I don't want Liz to hate me. I don't know if this is a good idea and she's like, Liz won't care, Liz won't care, and I'm like, oh my god. And so we did and then what was the song. It's called Fearless and it actually became the title of her record. And so we actually gave each other massive hugs and really met each other for the first time at the album release party. Do you remember that or was it her birthday party or something? Remember we took photos together in the photo boot was at the birthday at her at her party? Yeah, like right before the record to come out or something. We're like, we wrote a song together. I know. Nice to meet you, because if you hadn't done that, that song may not it may not have been finished, and it may not have been the title or even made the record. How does it start? We've played the beginning of it. That was good, So just so I get the chronology. Here, Liz and Laurie, you guys meet, and then Liz and Hillary meet, and then but when does the whole three weeks? So then we met too separately. We had written what we wrote a song probably two thousand and six. We had one day together Hillary and I yeah, and then I was terrible and I we're all afraid of each other. And she and I had only written one song after that, yeah, the other. But what happened was she had made a record and I was a massive fan, and I was scared to go into the room with her because she's a genius and it was just the two of us, and I had to sit there alone, and I got all prepared, throwing in trying to impress her with this idea, and I don't think it was good. It was really good idea. It was like the pain on the wall and the wall paper. But I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was. I remember, oh, house poor, who doesn't want to hear a song called the house Poor? And I was totally house poor. Yeah. But so then because I come here three days at a time, I come in usually once or twice a month, or three days at a time, I think what ultimately happened to get us together? And I always stay at Liz's house, and I think what happened was our publishers were like, Hey, Laurie and Liz have three days together. Let's just let's Hillary in and like have her. He's getting three days in a row with Hillary or Liz is really difficult. And I'm only here like three or six days a month, so like, let's just put them three days together. And and Liz was saying, and it was living in a condo, this beautiful condo that we it was just wonderful. And Liz's children are all grown and Laurie of course at you know, being in Nashville is away from her kids, and I was childless at the at that point. So we just had total freedom. It was like, yeah, everybody, spend the night, stay up till three o'clock in the morning. If you want to write all the way till three, stop at seven, watch a movie, what you know, just whatever, wake up in the morning, make eggs, keep writing. Like it was. It was really free. Yeah, there's a lot of we didn't have a whole lot of good when you write together, do you have roles? Is there who's the adult in the room. I'm an adult in the room. I am most certainly in the room. I feel like it shifts. It doesn't we do, I feel like, but I mean probably in general across the yes, you are in general, but like a lot together sometimes this is what we do is somebody has to be the r artists of the song, and each song is different, for our roles will change. We'll write two songs in a day and the roles will change between the songs. And somebody's an artist, somebody is a therapist, somebody is the cheerleader, and someone is the sleeper. But we someone is a sleeper. But we all we what we do. We do a lot of things that are great for one another because we love each other. But what we do best, I think for each other is we keep each other honest. And I think if any one of us says a line that someone else doesn't believe, will be like that's how you would say it, or or you know what I mean. And we know there's no way we could any of us could ever say something that the other one would be like, that's dumb, because it gets like we just we have so much respect for each other. It's just really open that there's there's you know, it's not critical, it's not judge. Nobody's judging anybody, and we don't I mean you saying all of the things that we all are at different times, like I mean, we've never honestly had this conversation, so it's not like we've ever analyzed that before, but when But the roles do shift, but it's never discussed. It just naturally happened, you know, And that's what we do as co writers. That's what we do. Like every day that these two show up in a room, it's, you know, usually there's an artist there, so you feel your you know, you find your spot somewhere else. And that's I think what we all love about co writing. Do you when you know you're getting together, do you, guys, do you on your own prepare? Are you bringing material to the group? Or we always the adult? Does it guilty that I can the food in the wine prepare? I type everything? I am? The secretary is really what I am. But I think we all always have a lot of ideas we but what we're really also good at. I'm not as good as these guys are, but like they if I have an idea that I don't know what it means yet they're both brilliant at Like maybe it's this and that happens to me all the time where I don't know I have I have a title maybe, but I don't know what to do with it. Or I have a verse maybe. But then I started hating myself at home by myself, and I'm like, I'll just show it to the girls and see and then they might be, yeah, that needs some fixing, or they'll be like, oh my god, we have to finish it. And that happens to all of us sometimes. Or what if this could mean this, or what if this could mean that, you know, just talking it out. What would you think back on the stuff you've written together? Is there a song that was magic? I mean when I say magic, like just came together and you were all like, wow, it was probably girl crush. That's happened a couple of times in my age and myha but you already had so much of that. But the greatest thing to me about my age is that she started. I was on the other side of the room. I was playing the piano, but I started singing something and Liz was never heard it before and singing along with me. I remember you looking at her like how you know these words? But she knows me so well. She knew what I was going to say. And then Hillary says, no, that's done. You got to finish it. But I had no chorus. I didn't know what to do with it. And she started singing a chorus, and then we had no hook, and then this one. Hillary says, well, it could be this. This is terrible, but it could be this, And as soon as she said it, we all cried like babies. And to me, that's magic girl crush. That was she kind of does this one by herself. I'm going to attempt to sing harmony with you, but let me see if I'm to operate. It was a nightmare. No, it wasn't all joined in. You sang harmony and I sang with her, bail, You sang a harmony and I sang. I just doubled her in like higherment? Are you real soft? Remember? Yeah? Remember coming back to me? Now, remember when we were playing I'm a Bactor? Oh God, was before you the whole thing? Yes, just play me the little bit you had when you started. Okay, So I had the verse. What I have was the essentially the first and the last verse. And I couldn't find a chorus at home. I tried and tried and tried, and I knew, and I think this happens to all of us. I knew that sometimes songs before we even have almost anything, this happens to me. And I'm sure, it happens to you guys. Sometimes they'll make me cry, like just sitting there, like I know there's something, but I don't know what to do. And usually if left alone, I can figure it out eventually. And I had this for like weeks, and I did try, and I tried and I tried, but what I have was this. I'll play you this. So I played that for them on the piano and she started singing the chorus because because literally weird, I'm getting it was the weirdest thing. It was wild. At that point, we were sitting on the couch we'd gotten off, yeah, because I can't really play the piano, but I just show them, And Hillary was saying, Laura, you seem to finish that song because you felt like she had written so much of it. I didn't. I felt like it was wrong to take a piece of it or do anything with it, because I felt like she would figure it out on her own. But I had, like I said, I had tried, and when I I think when I got to riding bags out on the street, she was like somehow singing along with me. I don't know. I remember you saying to her like, how do you know? And then so you did the chorus, Hillary, the chorus she said out, You'll grow your shoes, I'll grow your bed. Wait were you sing that little thing that came to you? We didn't have the hook, we didn't have that You're still going to be my baby even when you're made. And that was Hillary and she said, and she said, this is dumb, but I'm just gonna say it. And as soon as she said, well, you could say you're still going to be a baby even when you're my age, and we're all like, oh my god. And now all of us we did get to sing that on the aufree one night, and we've sung it together a couple of times, and it is it's hard to get through the whole song without losing it because we all you just have to think about something completely. You cannot let yourself think about it when you're singing it. Or it's one of those songs that I call them to make you want to throw up songs because it hurts so bad. It's like, it's so funny because we all are in a different stage in our lives. So Laurie's writing it for her kids, for her your grown kids, and you're you know, Hillary's writing it from a brand new mother perspective. She's three years old, So it's just really makes me sick to my stomach. And I came up with that from my two year old grandson. Yeah, because I'm always buying shoes, but also that my mother's ninety five and she's still call I'm the youngest of six, and she still calls me her baby. She still says that to me, You're you're my baby. God. Yeah, it's just too painful, you know, I just want to say, like to me, like not to get all religious about it, but I tried for about a month to find where that's song and you know what I mean, and and and I just know that I was supposed to sing it that verse for them, and they were supposed to be part of that with me. Like I just know that creatively, something stopped me from being able to find where it was supposed to go because we were supposed to write it together. I just totally believe that, well, which is such a gift, I think because I love them so much and we have had moments where if we weren't sharing the moment together, it would still be great. I think we'd all like would all so, but doing but having the experience together is it just makes it so much more. Mm hmm. You have to sing the whole song now cry. It's okay to cry. It's okay to cry. This is not be perfect. I'm going to be crying too. By the way, I'm gonna move away from the mic. Should we do it right now? Yes? Yes? Do you want to clean next list? I'll just we just when we come back, Laurie, Liz and Hillary play their song My Age. We're back with the performance of My Age from the Love Junkies. Laurie, Liz and Hillary. Yeah. Started well in the middle of it, cressout. You just moved away. Don't think out the sun like you asked. Have we had magical moments like we the fact that we got to create that together. Mm hmm, it's just so magical to me. I love the idea that each of you, Oh you're so she is still a baby, and so I'm just like, oh my god, I can just see her. That's why we can't look at each other. This is when we get mad at each other when we said, we're like gonna make me say that a sorry, OK. But that idea that all of you approached that song from a different perspective is so magical. We've always done that as writers together because when we first started writing a lot together, we were like, we're about ten years a part each of us. There's like an eight to ten year thing. And uh, it was like never been married, married cour times, married to one person a very long time. So we have we have such different which one we're been married to the same person a very long the adult? The adult. I know someone's gonna make me a T shirt. Now that says because I want to make you that. I always like our if we're if we're all standing on a ledge, when we try and make a decision, explain that you explain it because you explain it better. I think you do. If we're no, you do it better. Well, we've had opportunities, we've been approached for things. A couple of times it's like should we And we all get on like a three way conference call because we're not together, and it's like, well should we do this? Should we do this? And we all think we all think so differently. If we are all standing looking over allege and it's like we should we jump because we heard it's pretty awesome down there, like we can't see anything, we don't know, and Liz is like, let's do it, let's jump, and Hillary is like, well who else is jumped? Like do we know like the logistics of it? And if we don't jump, somebody else will, so maybe we should go ahead and jump. And then I'm like, well, how long is it going to take us to jump? Can I have a flight? And all hit it? We all want the same things in life, but we all see those things so differently and and calculate our things so differently, or not calculate at all. It's been married four times, we should we do the other magical moment? So tell me more about girl Crush. It was one of our three days together and it was a second day. It was a second day because it was morning and Laurie and I were in the kitchen and uh she was making coffee and I was We were waiting for Hillary to get up, and Laurie said, hey, I got an idea to day. I think I want to write a song called girl Crush. And I immediately, without even thinking, said no, which is something I'm working on. By the way, she jumped again, you know this is I do this, I jump no, and she's like, no, it'll be really cool. It's about you know, like you know, and I was like, no, no, no, that's stupid and we need to write, we need cuts and we're not writing girl crush. That sounds too hard to write and how are we going to do it? And no, lord, that's dumb. And literally I think I said that's I just said no, like I'm more worried about we only had two hours. Yeah, and we only had two hours strange talking about how it was. Maybe we weren't talking about it all. I just said, you know, it wasn't like like when somebody's doing something really great or any nothing. She said girl crush. I said no, she said girl crush. I said no, like just now, you said, just like that. Hillary came in the room and Laurie turned around and said, Hillary, I have a song idea. I want to write a song called girl Crush. And I didn't even have time to give her a dirty look because Hillary picked up the guitar and went, you mean kind of like this, and she did this, and I did literally we jumped on the couch and went that's exactly she lived in her head. And she said you mean like that. She looked at me, like, you mean like that, because I had, you know, said those two words. And I looked at Liz and opened her notebook, the very famous notebook, and we're like, yeah, that's what we mean. That's what we mean. That one lick of discussion about what it means, and that was it flowed out. You were done in an hour. It just fell out and some genius coming through her face. I was thinking, I have no idea what when you did? Clearly it came from God. That did not come out of my mind. I wasn't. I wasn't thinking, you know. And we didn't get in the way with it because I remember when you said, oh her, yeah, because it takes and we we s I was like, okay, y'all are getting really sexy. But no, we never thought about what it was. But those were the lines that were supposed to be in the song, and we knew that it was. Wait, I'm jealous. I want to be this girl because she has you. Yeah, I want you, so I'm jealous. But we really sad. Once we figured out it just kept it just fell out, flying out, It started to write itself. It was making sense to us once you know, it was like a puzzle. The pieces kept coming and then it's like, oh, that's what the song is. Who has do all of you have? Did two of you both have your guitars at that moment? Or is it just you and the guitar? It was just me at that moment. The other crazy thing about it is that if you look at the notebook on the left hand side, there are only like five or six words on it because it happened so fast and it fell out so fast that there were no wasted words. There were no That means pretty much everything that was said in the room went on in in the song. Can you explain this? Is it just is? I think it's I think it's because Hillary is a genius. No, And I think it's because we're safe with We're safe with one another. Even when she didn't say that's a dumb idea to me, But I didn't say I just said it sounds hard, and uh, but and it was and my feelings weren't hurt, you know what I mean, because I know where she's coming from, and and and I think it's it's just we we're we're in an environment and that moment where that could come through her, and it did. It's it's we haven't If we had a video of it, I would watch it every day. Wow, because it's just magical to think about it. But typically with songwriters, you hear this a lot that the ones that just kind of fall out of them and the ones that happened so fast and they don't know really where it came from either are a lot of times the ones that become the big hits for them, you know, the ones that sometimes stand the test of time, you know. I mean, you hear that all the time, and I'm sure you've had it happen before, and you've had it happened before, and I've had it happen before with other songs too. It's a very rare occurrence. I wish it happened more than it did, but I really don't know. I know, for me, the setting was that I definitely felt free and comfortable. I was at peace, But I don't know why. I don't know. I don't know why that happened. I don't know how that happened. How far how far into this so we have this magic moment? How far into the moment were you sure it was going to were like we did going to thought nobody wrote a cool song. We liked the song a lot, but that's kind of all we thought was probably this is going to be a massive We played it for Scott I think he brought us lunch or something, and and he got it. And we played it for Liza's son who brought us at lunch because we didn't know if it because sometimes when you're talking about the song so much, it makes sense to us because we're all sitting here talking about what we're going to say, and then you don't you have to go back and be like, but it will make sense to someone listening that doesn't know what we're talking about. And he got it. He's like, of course, makes sense, it makes total sense. Well, the point is is that there's a lot of rejection so and a lot of times the ones that you think are really cool, I mean you're just a little bit afraid that that might be too cool for like radio or something like, you know, like nobody's gonna want it because maybe it's not commercial enough, not too cool that's probably the wrong way of saying it, but just not commercial enough, not radio friendly enough, you know. So we loved the song, but we just didn't really know if it would ever get cut, And then once it was cut, we it wasn't supposed to be a single, le yeah, it wasn't even yeah. But what happened was after a little big town cut it, we were getting text messages and phone calls from other writers in town that had heard and be like, man, that song is cool, like for you to come up with a new way to say a story about jealousy, which we again was like, so we knew that like our peers, and that's the biggest preplement peers tell you. That's so thrilling to any of us. And then Chris started and everybody was wanting to the press about the new album. They were all calling us wanting to talk about Girl Crush. But but it was not supposed to be a single. I don't believe it was supposed to be a fourth single. Remember I'm gonna make I'm gonna make you guys play it now. Okay, we'll be back with more from the Love Junkies and another song after the break. We're back with Liz Laurie and Hillary the Love Junkies. You know what's interesting with that song is that listening to you sing it here in person, it suddenly becomes a grown up song. It's like a serious make everything seem a little sadder. Maybe so then maybe others because sometimes you like you'll get a video of someone singing it, like at a wedding or you know, someone like not not Karen, but somebody else, and it does seem a little well, it's I mean, it is anything, but that is a sad situation. I mean, she said somebody's got the man she loves. I mean, you know, if you really think about it like that, I never really thought about it as being sad either, but I guess it is. You know why I say that because I had Maybe it's because you guys are singing it in front of me. Yeah it was. It was. Now it's a it's a grown woman saying she has the feeling that a adolescent has, as opposed to an adolescent saying I'm having adolescent feelings right. So now it's like that because it makes it even more powerful. I've been transported back to that horrible place in my adolescence when I had these irrational, powerful emotional feelings, and that's that's what's driving me crazy. Yeah, I'm forty five years old, and I feel like I'm sixty. Like that's to me. What see that girl right now? Yeah? I can't swimming pool. I can see her right now too. I saw her when I looked in the mirror this morning. This specially be this other thing I want to talk about. I want to talk about what a country song is these days? Is that a country song? Does it matter? Maybe it doesn't matter, but I'm just curious. I think it's just a song. I mean, I'm sure some of the some people would say it does matter. But from a writing perspective, we just try to just write a song, like we you know what I mean, try not to think too much about that kind of thing. Sometimes when you get in the studio that will kind of play a little bit more into it because you have to pick like different instrumentation and stuff, so that might make it a little more pop sounding or a little more country sounding. But as far as like when we're just sitting around with guitars, we just really just try to write a good song. You know, you don't feel like you belong to a tradition, Well you're acting within particular gen you just I mean, yes, she she writes, I mean she can write anything, but we are writing in a particular genre. It's why we that's why we write in Nashville. That's why we embrace this community. I mean, the best songwriters in the world are in Nashville, Tennessee. So that you know, that's how we feel. And and that's why people come from every genre to this town to write with Nashville songwriters. So but I do believe, we believe we belong to a genre. Although we can step out and do other things. We are country songwriters. And but that day when we wrote that specific song, let's write a country song, like you know, it was just like, let's write a song with this title, right, Like it wasn't like we were trying to necessarily conform to anything. Is there a song that you guys have done, either individually or collectively, that feels like a real country song too? Well, we never finished it, but remember, and I'm sure we have another y' all can answer that better. But that just popped in my head. I remember the last time we all got together. It was the night the day we did the opry that night, and so we wrote it my house. I was just looking at that what's it called? And I can't remember she had the title and we were saying, how somebody said, let's try to write it more in a like traditional country country way. We didn't finish it, though country is very country. You remember it, Lorie. It wasn't the if I should have known, I shouldn't no better, but no, I don't know. I think that is what it was. It was like, but it had more of a country thing. It was something like I should know better, but I don't and it or something like that, I don't like that much. Well finish it sometimes. And it's funny because I think Girl Crush she is kind of very conscious that, you know, the leans towards six ' eight a lot the tempo that song I have issues, although she can do any tempo, but but that's where that landed in that whole like just kind of wallsy feeling. But girl Crust as a title sounds like it could be really pop, but it's also a motown sort of throwback thing. Felt a little there's all that too going on with it, so, you know, and when you look at the production, the little big town production of that song, there's so much restraint in that. You know, there's so much that isn't there that is so necessarily beautiful, like just so necessary now and so beautiful that Jay Joyce and the banded in recording that song like they should. They could have gone to town and they didn't, and it's just so perfect the way they the way that that it ended up. Yeah, we were lucky that we actually never made it into the studio to demo that we never demoed it, so they cut it just off of the work tape on our iPhone, just like us sitting there singing on that. Why do you say you were lucky because we might have messed up the Dagon demo, we might have the production of it, we might have who knows, or we might have nailed it, but who knows. Like they got to take it into the studio and create the sound around it, you know. So the other thing that interests me is is what it means for a woman to write a song. Do you how much of your music couldn't be played by a man, or to not be performed by a man? Yeah, hmm, I don't know. I mean for me personally, like it's you know, when I'm writing, like with with the two of them, we typically you know, lean towards writing women songs. Clearly we're women. We have sat in the room before and and tried to write what we call them dude songs. Did you ever? Have you ever? No? Do you remember any? Can you pay me a little bit of a dude song? So? I bet it was written for a copper tone and that song is partying though I love that song. No, we can probably if we can find it on our if we can find a demo. Let me see, yeah, we have a demo. You don't remember it well enough to How many songs have you guys written together? Now? Wild? Wild is her favorite color? Oh yeah, I play that, but that could still be a girl song. Yeah, but it's really but we wrote it with Chris Stapleton in our heads? Yeah? What was that other one? Like something about the boat thing? Anchor here drop anchor? Yeah? Yeah here? Yeah? Which one am I looking up? I might not be you literally declare up front that it's time to write a dude song. Is that No? We had a little phase where we tried to do that at and it was not and it was fun, but it wasn't like we just declared it. It was more like somebody might have a title and it was like, oh, that's kind of sounds like a dude title. And there are a lot of dudes cutting right now. It's like that kind of thuff, you know what I mean. When we're trying, when we put on our business hats, it can go there. Sometimes we got a paycheck, you know, ready to get your mind blown? This might be really bad. Okay, what year was this? Not too long ago? Like this song? I love this song. This song is so cool. Christian Buff put it and we can't take the heat. Can't they jump in the swim in to see wait guys ting am on, come on, take along, let me get to it. But water make it harder. Capon Chlory. Yeah, it was so sweet, so sweet, m you and me chemistry. Cappon Chlory. Yay. Hey you missed a spawl on your back, Bud. I mean, I'm sorry. That song is awesome. That song has not been cut, you believe. I mean, I actually really love that songs. We should we should, well we shouldn't. Christian Bush cut it, but he did. I don't think you would be Jacob, are you going going? Tim would be amazing. I think Tim has heard it. I think his people have heard it. Any Yeah, it's a good song right here pitching songs, yeah, Tone and chlorine. You guys have so much fun together. How do you go back to writing by yourself? Isn't it so sad? I don't. I mean, she does a lot, she writes a lot by herself. I honestly don't write by myself. Well, I don't live here, So if I lived here, I would just call one of my friends. I would just have I also can't write every day. These guys write every day. I cannot write every day. I'm not. My brain just isn't. I'm just not that smart and I sort of have That's why I think. I you know, if I do come in with, say, more titles, it's because I've been saving them up. Then you guys have to write titles. But but I mean, like you guys write every day. So it's like I think, I think I probably write, you know, six or eight songs a month, and these guys, you know, that's probably double that. Oh. I write every day every single day, pretty much, sometimes twice a day. Not on the weekends. I said, for two weekends ago, I wrote all weekend. Why because I had to, so for me, I got to I mean that's terrible because I had to poor me. But I mean, I think it's just opportunity. It's like if you don't, somebody else will. And I love doing it. It's fun and and like where most people go to lunch with their friends and go shopping. And our friendship, our girl time is when we write. I mean, my best friends came from this business. My best friends came from you know, they're my best friends. And it's because we hang out together and we were very protective of each other and we love each other and we're we're more sisters than co writers, you know. So you can get burnt out though by writing too much. You get burnout on us, not our friendship, on writing every day. Like I am sometimes very envious of Lorie's life and being able to like step away from it and then come back into it and step away from it and this, you know, because being here it is it is like, well, somebody else is going to do it, so you can't drop the ball. Well and for me, being a publisher different, I have to set an example for writers, but everybody's different, you know. But Craig Wiseman used to always say, what is it? It's like a farmer. The more seeds you throw out there, the more crop you'll get. So there's that whole theory too, of just having more songs. And every day you wake up and go, I've got to write today, and there's nothing in my brain. And it's crazy. You walk in a room with nothing in your brain, and as soon as you hear music or somebody starts talking to you about something, suddenly this thing comes out and it's like, holy cow, where did that come from? And to circle back around, that is why we probably don't write along because you wouldn't walk into it, wouldn't. You have to have the other people. I have to have the other people to help inspire and help. I mean, you know, we just feed off of each other, you know so. But Laurie writes geniusly by herself. My favorite song in the world is still your Next Lover. I love that song. That song is so brilliant, right, and I was gonna I want you to play one last song together? Should we do that one? Well, they don't know that one. What's one you can all sing together? We could do sober? What else can we do? We could do? I mean I have to think, Patsy, we could do. I don't. I have to think about Patsy. It's not my brain. You want me to play it? How great to be in position? You guys, are you've written so many successful songs you've forgotten Well, we know it's not that you've written so many successful ones. It's that you've written so many. Yeah, because most of them are sitting on a shelf somewhere on the compewter Shehell, I'm sorry, we got you and you're trying to tell me the chord and I'm ready in the wrong. But that is a song about songs, So that is that is a song about how we feel about songwriting. Like I want to pray it like Jesus listening, I want to play it like it's all we have and uh, it's It's not a song for everybody, but I think people that love songs that have heard that song, well, I don't know, but if I if everybody else can identify, because it's really about how we sit there and like we like some days the song is easy and it and it and it's there in the room and you can feel it in the room. And some days we just literally pour our hearts into it and we we kind of fight it until it's right. And we that's why I can't do it every day because like you have to like just you know, give it your guts every day and and and so much of what we do and nobody hears it but us, and you can't. You can't let that weigh on you because you got to pour your gut out the next day again. And that that's what that song is, I think for all of us, Like I'm not the best singer in the world, but I'm gonna sing like I'm gonna give it my heart, you know what I mean. And that's and we that was something that was a song I needed to write and and I say for these two to write together. And we just had a ball writing it one night. We had a little whiskey I think or something. Why maybe we probably didn't have whiskey, but but that's the kind of thing we do together because like we will save things for each other that we know, like I don't know how to do this, but these guys will. And that's an example of that. I still don't know how to play it. Obviously we did not many thanks to the Love Junkies Liz Rose, Lloyd McKenna and Hillary Lindsay for coming on Broken Record. We put together a playlist of our favorite songs they've written on our website, broken record dot Com. Broken Record is produced by Justin Richmond and Jason Gambrel, with help from mea LaBelle, Jacob Smith, Julia Barton, and Jacob Weisberg. Special thanks to my co hosts Rick Rubin and Bruce Headlam. Our Broken Record theme music is by Kenny Beats. This show is brought to you by Pushkin Industries. I'm Malcolm Bradwick.

Pushkin. Just a quick note here. You can listen to all of the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist, which you can find a link to in the show notes for licensing reasons, each time a song is referenced in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect. All right, enjoy the episode. I'm Malcolm Gladwell. This is Broken Record, and this episode is me and the Love Junkies at Sony Tree Studios in Nashville. I call it an interview, except I didn't really interview them. I felt like I just sat in the corner laughing and made sure the tape was running this. I know boyfriend found me last week and I have you have to hear. Well, we're gonna write a Saudi mar just sing that. Oh well, I'm playing girl crush. I know Bepher's voice. The one talking about an old boyfriend is Liz Rose. The one who said that's the line of a song right there is Lloyd McKenna. The one playing guitar who said she's playing girl crush is Hillary Lindsay. Hillary is the one who helped Lady Goga go country on a million reasons. Lloyd McKenna has written for greates like Faith Hill, Tim McGraw, and Reba McIntyre. Liz co wrote over half the songs on Taylor Swift's debut album. They are three of the best songwriters working in Nashville today, and every now and again they hang out and write songs together as the Love Junkies. We caught a glimpse of how they work when they were setting up and Laurie and Hillary decided that Liz's chance encounter with an old boyfriend deserve to be turned into a song. Oh shit, Okay, I'm sure you other things. This is fantastic. This is fantastic, is so much better anything else. We have to move on. We're going to remember that, Adam, do you have a recording of that that we can steal for me? Thank you? How did you guys meet? They knew each other first, right, Yeah, we'd been writing for Liz was one of the first. So when I came to town, I got a publishing deal in two thousand and five, and I had never co written a song. You came, You came down here from Boston. Yeah, I came like I got a publishing deal, so like I came down to do trips. I never lived here, but I just would fly down. And my publisher was like, we should co write songs, and I had never done it. I'd just been writing just it just seemed so difficult to try to do this with other people. And so my first co write I think was Mark D. Sanders and Liz was maybe my third or fourth, and they put me in a room with and really, over the couple of years following, she taught me how to co write a song like I didn't know. I was with Mark de like I had just great people they put me with in the beginning. That taught me how the process works, and I literally fell in love with it, like I lived. So we had written a bunch you guys had written, not together. We had written oddly enough, and never actually sat in a room with each other. Because she had started a song with Taylor Swift and then Taylor came to my house to write one day, just Taylor and I, and she was like, Hey, do you want to maybe help me out with this song that I started with Liz Rose? And I'm like, I don't know. I don't I don't really know Liz. I don't want Liz to hate me. I don't know if this is a good idea and she's like, Liz won't care, Liz won't care, and I'm like, oh my god. And so we did and then what was the song. It's called Fearless and it actually became the title of her record. And so we actually gave each other massive hugs and really met each other for the first time at the album release party. Do you remember that or was it her birthday party or something? Remember we took photos together in the photo boot was at the birthday at her at her party? Yeah, like right before the record to come out or something. We're like, we wrote a song together. I know. Nice to meet you, because if you hadn't done that, that song may not it may not have been finished, and it may not have been the title or even made the record. How does it start? We've played the beginning of it. That was good, So just so I get the chronology. Here, Liz and Laurie, you guys meet, and then Liz and Hillary meet, and then but when does the whole three weeks? So then we met too separately. We had written what we wrote a song probably two thousand and six. We had one day together Hillary and I yeah, and then I was terrible and I we're all afraid of each other. And she and I had only written one song after that, yeah, the other. But what happened was she had made a record and I was a massive fan, and I was scared to go into the room with her because she's a genius and it was just the two of us, and I had to sit there alone, and I got all prepared, throwing in trying to impress her with this idea, and I don't think it was good. It was really good idea. It was like the pain on the wall and the wall paper. But I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was. I remember, oh, house poor, who doesn't want to hear a song called the house Poor? And I was totally house poor. Yeah. But so then because I come here three days at a time, I come in usually once or twice a month, or three days at a time, I think what ultimately happened to get us together? And I always stay at Liz's house, and I think what happened was our publishers were like, Hey, Laurie and Liz have three days together. Let's just let's Hillary in and like have her. He's getting three days in a row with Hillary or Liz is really difficult. And I'm only here like three or six days a month, so like, let's just put them three days together. And and Liz was saying, and it was living in a condo, this beautiful condo that we it was just wonderful. And Liz's children are all grown and Laurie of course at you know, being in Nashville is away from her kids, and I was childless at the at that point. So we just had total freedom. It was like, yeah, everybody, spend the night, stay up till three o'clock in the morning. If you want to write all the way till three, stop at seven, watch a movie, what you know, just whatever, wake up in the morning, make eggs, keep writing. Like it was. It was really free. Yeah, there's a lot of we didn't have a whole lot of good when you write together, do you have roles? Is there who's the adult in the room. I'm an adult in the room. I am most certainly in the room. I feel like it shifts. It doesn't we do, I feel like, but I mean probably in general across the yes, you are in general, but like a lot together sometimes this is what we do is somebody has to be the r artists of the song, and each song is different, for our roles will change. We'll write two songs in a day and the roles will change between the songs. And somebody's an artist, somebody is a therapist, somebody is the cheerleader, and someone is the sleeper. But we someone is a sleeper. But we all we what we do. We do a lot of things that are great for one another because we love each other. But what we do best, I think for each other is we keep each other honest. And I think if any one of us says a line that someone else doesn't believe, will be like that's how you would say it, or or you know what I mean. And we know there's no way we could any of us could ever say something that the other one would be like, that's dumb, because it gets like we just we have so much respect for each other. It's just really open that there's there's you know, it's not critical, it's not judge. Nobody's judging anybody, and we don't I mean you saying all of the things that we all are at different times, like I mean, we've never honestly had this conversation, so it's not like we've ever analyzed that before, but when But the roles do shift, but it's never discussed. It just naturally happened, you know, And that's what we do as co writers. That's what we do. Like every day that these two show up in a room, it's, you know, usually there's an artist there, so you feel your you know, you find your spot somewhere else. And that's I think what we all love about co writing. Do you when you know you're getting together, do you, guys, do you on your own prepare? Are you bringing material to the group? Or we always the adult? Does it guilty that I can the food in the wine prepare? I type everything? I am? The secretary is really what I am. But I think we all always have a lot of ideas we but what we're really also good at. I'm not as good as these guys are, but like they if I have an idea that I don't know what it means yet they're both brilliant at Like maybe it's this and that happens to me all the time where I don't know I have I have a title maybe, but I don't know what to do with it. Or I have a verse maybe. But then I started hating myself at home by myself, and I'm like, I'll just show it to the girls and see and then they might be, yeah, that needs some fixing, or they'll be like, oh my god, we have to finish it. And that happens to all of us sometimes. Or what if this could mean this, or what if this could mean that, you know, just talking it out. What would you think back on the stuff you've written together? Is there a song that was magic? I mean when I say magic, like just came together and you were all like, wow, it was probably girl crush. That's happened a couple of times in my age and myha but you already had so much of that. But the greatest thing to me about my age is that she started. I was on the other side of the room. I was playing the piano, but I started singing something and Liz was never heard it before and singing along with me. I remember you looking at her like how you know these words? But she knows me so well. She knew what I was going to say. And then Hillary says, no, that's done. You got to finish it. But I had no chorus. I didn't know what to do with it. And she started singing a chorus, and then we had no hook, and then this one. Hillary says, well, it could be this. This is terrible, but it could be this, And as soon as she said it, we all cried like babies. And to me, that's magic girl crush. That was she kind of does this one by herself. I'm going to attempt to sing harmony with you, but let me see if I'm to operate. It was a nightmare. No, it wasn't all joined in. You sang harmony and I sang with her, bail, You sang a harmony and I sang. I just doubled her in like higherment? Are you real soft? Remember? Yeah? Remember coming back to me? Now, remember when we were playing I'm a Bactor? Oh God, was before you the whole thing? Yes, just play me the little bit you had when you started. Okay, So I had the verse. What I have was the essentially the first and the last verse. And I couldn't find a chorus at home. I tried and tried and tried, and I knew, and I think this happens to all of us. I knew that sometimes songs before we even have almost anything, this happens to me. And I'm sure, it happens to you guys. Sometimes they'll make me cry, like just sitting there, like I know there's something, but I don't know what to do. And usually if left alone, I can figure it out eventually. And I had this for like weeks, and I did try, and I tried and I tried, but what I have was this. I'll play you this. So I played that for them on the piano and she started singing the chorus because because literally weird, I'm getting it was the weirdest thing. It was wild. At that point, we were sitting on the couch we'd gotten off, yeah, because I can't really play the piano, but I just show them, And Hillary was saying, Laura, you seem to finish that song because you felt like she had written so much of it. I didn't. I felt like it was wrong to take a piece of it or do anything with it, because I felt like she would figure it out on her own. But I had, like I said, I had tried, and when I I think when I got to riding bags out on the street, she was like somehow singing along with me. I don't know. I remember you saying to her like, how do you know? And then so you did the chorus, Hillary, the chorus she said out, You'll grow your shoes, I'll grow your bed. Wait were you sing that little thing that came to you? We didn't have the hook, we didn't have that You're still going to be my baby even when you're made. And that was Hillary and she said, and she said, this is dumb, but I'm just gonna say it. And as soon as she said, well, you could say you're still going to be a baby even when you're my age, and we're all like, oh my god. And now all of us we did get to sing that on the aufree one night, and we've sung it together a couple of times, and it is it's hard to get through the whole song without losing it because we all you just have to think about something completely. You cannot let yourself think about it when you're singing it. Or it's one of those songs that I call them to make you want to throw up songs because it hurts so bad. It's like, it's so funny because we all are in a different stage in our lives. So Laurie's writing it for her kids, for her your grown kids, and you're you know, Hillary's writing it from a brand new mother perspective. She's three years old, So it's just really makes me sick to my stomach. And I came up with that from my two year old grandson. Yeah, because I'm always buying shoes, but also that my mother's ninety five and she's still call I'm the youngest of six, and she still calls me her baby. She still says that to me, You're you're my baby. God. Yeah, it's just too painful, you know, I just want to say, like to me, like not to get all religious about it, but I tried for about a month to find where that's song and you know what I mean, and and and I just know that I was supposed to sing it that verse for them, and they were supposed to be part of that with me. Like I just know that creatively, something stopped me from being able to find where it was supposed to go because we were supposed to write it together. I just totally believe that, well, which is such a gift, I think because I love them so much and we have had moments where if we weren't sharing the moment together, it would still be great. I think we'd all like would all so, but doing but having the experience together is it just makes it so much more. Mm hmm. You have to sing the whole song now cry. It's okay to cry. It's okay to cry. This is not be perfect. I'm going to be crying too. By the way, I'm gonna move away from the mic. Should we do it right now? Yes? Yes? Do you want to clean next list? I'll just we just when we come back, Laurie, Liz and Hillary play their song My Age. We're back with the performance of My Age from the Love Junkies. Laurie, Liz and Hillary. Yeah. Started well in the middle of it, cressout. You just moved away. Don't think out the sun like you asked. Have we had magical moments like we the fact that we got to create that together. Mm hmm, it's just so magical to me. I love the idea that each of you, Oh you're so she is still a baby, and so I'm just like, oh my god, I can just see her. That's why we can't look at each other. This is when we get mad at each other when we said, we're like gonna make me say that a sorry, OK. But that idea that all of you approached that song from a different perspective is so magical. We've always done that as writers together because when we first started writing a lot together, we were like, we're about ten years a part each of us. There's like an eight to ten year thing. And uh, it was like never been married, married cour times, married to one person a very long time. So we have we have such different which one we're been married to the same person a very long the adult? The adult. I know someone's gonna make me a T shirt. Now that says because I want to make you that. I always like our if we're if we're all standing on a ledge, when we try and make a decision, explain that you explain it because you explain it better. I think you do. If we're no, you do it better. Well, we've had opportunities, we've been approached for things. A couple of times it's like should we And we all get on like a three way conference call because we're not together, and it's like, well should we do this? Should we do this? And we all think we all think so differently. If we are all standing looking over allege and it's like we should we jump because we heard it's pretty awesome down there, like we can't see anything, we don't know, and Liz is like, let's do it, let's jump, and Hillary is like, well who else is jumped? Like do we know like the logistics of it? And if we don't jump, somebody else will, so maybe we should go ahead and jump. And then I'm like, well, how long is it going to take us to jump? Can I have a flight? And all hit it? We all want the same things in life, but we all see those things so differently and and calculate our things so differently, or not calculate at all. It's been married four times, we should we do the other magical moment? So tell me more about girl Crush. It was one of our three days together and it was a second day. It was a second day because it was morning and Laurie and I were in the kitchen and uh she was making coffee and I was We were waiting for Hillary to get up, and Laurie said, hey, I got an idea to day. I think I want to write a song called girl Crush. And I immediately, without even thinking, said no, which is something I'm working on. By the way, she jumped again, you know this is I do this, I jump no, and she's like, no, it'll be really cool. It's about you know, like you know, and I was like, no, no, no, that's stupid and we need to write, we need cuts and we're not writing girl crush. That sounds too hard to write and how are we going to do it? And no, lord, that's dumb. And literally I think I said that's I just said no, like I'm more worried about we only had two hours. Yeah, and we only had two hours strange talking about how it was. Maybe we weren't talking about it all. I just said, you know, it wasn't like like when somebody's doing something really great or any nothing. She said girl crush. I said no, she said girl crush. I said no, like just now, you said, just like that. Hillary came in the room and Laurie turned around and said, Hillary, I have a song idea. I want to write a song called girl Crush. And I didn't even have time to give her a dirty look because Hillary picked up the guitar and went, you mean kind of like this, and she did this, and I did literally we jumped on the couch and went that's exactly she lived in her head. And she said you mean like that. She looked at me, like, you mean like that, because I had, you know, said those two words. And I looked at Liz and opened her notebook, the very famous notebook, and we're like, yeah, that's what we mean. That's what we mean. That one lick of discussion about what it means, and that was it flowed out. You were done in an hour. It just fell out and some genius coming through her face. I was thinking, I have no idea what when you did? Clearly it came from God. That did not come out of my mind. I wasn't. I wasn't thinking, you know. And we didn't get in the way with it because I remember when you said, oh her, yeah, because it takes and we we s I was like, okay, y'all are getting really sexy. But no, we never thought about what it was. But those were the lines that were supposed to be in the song, and we knew that it was. Wait, I'm jealous. I want to be this girl because she has you. Yeah, I want you, so I'm jealous. But we really sad. Once we figured out it just kept it just fell out, flying out, It started to write itself. It was making sense to us once you know, it was like a puzzle. The pieces kept coming and then it's like, oh, that's what the song is. Who has do all of you have? Did two of you both have your guitars at that moment? Or is it just you and the guitar? It was just me at that moment. The other crazy thing about it is that if you look at the notebook on the left hand side, there are only like five or six words on it because it happened so fast and it fell out so fast that there were no wasted words. There were no That means pretty much everything that was said in the room went on in in the song. Can you explain this? Is it just is? I think it's I think it's because Hillary is a genius. No, And I think it's because we're safe with We're safe with one another. Even when she didn't say that's a dumb idea to me, But I didn't say I just said it sounds hard, and uh, but and it was and my feelings weren't hurt, you know what I mean, because I know where she's coming from, and and and I think it's it's just we we're we're in an environment and that moment where that could come through her, and it did. It's it's we haven't If we had a video of it, I would watch it every day. Wow, because it's just magical to think about it. But typically with songwriters, you hear this a lot that the ones that just kind of fall out of them and the ones that happened so fast and they don't know really where it came from either are a lot of times the ones that become the big hits for them, you know, the ones that sometimes stand the test of time, you know. I mean, you hear that all the time, and I'm sure you've had it happen before, and you've had it happened before, and I've had it happen before with other songs too. It's a very rare occurrence. I wish it happened more than it did, but I really don't know. I know, for me, the setting was that I definitely felt free and comfortable. I was at peace, But I don't know why. I don't know. I don't know why that happened. I don't know how that happened. How far how far into this so we have this magic moment? How far into the moment were you sure it was going to were like we did going to thought nobody wrote a cool song. We liked the song a lot, but that's kind of all we thought was probably this is going to be a massive We played it for Scott I think he brought us lunch or something, and and he got it. And we played it for Liza's son who brought us at lunch because we didn't know if it because sometimes when you're talking about the song so much, it makes sense to us because we're all sitting here talking about what we're going to say, and then you don't you have to go back and be like, but it will make sense to someone listening that doesn't know what we're talking about. And he got it. He's like, of course, makes sense, it makes total sense. Well, the point is is that there's a lot of rejection so and a lot of times the ones that you think are really cool, I mean you're just a little bit afraid that that might be too cool for like radio or something like, you know, like nobody's gonna want it because maybe it's not commercial enough, not too cool that's probably the wrong way of saying it, but just not commercial enough, not radio friendly enough, you know. So we loved the song, but we just didn't really know if it would ever get cut, And then once it was cut, we it wasn't supposed to be a single, le yeah, it wasn't even yeah. But what happened was after a little big town cut it, we were getting text messages and phone calls from other writers in town that had heard and be like, man, that song is cool, like for you to come up with a new way to say a story about jealousy, which we again was like, so we knew that like our peers, and that's the biggest preplement peers tell you. That's so thrilling to any of us. And then Chris started and everybody was wanting to the press about the new album. They were all calling us wanting to talk about Girl Crush. But but it was not supposed to be a single. I don't believe it was supposed to be a fourth single. Remember I'm gonna make I'm gonna make you guys play it now. Okay, we'll be back with more from the Love Junkies and another song after the break. We're back with Liz Laurie and Hillary the Love Junkies. You know what's interesting with that song is that listening to you sing it here in person, it suddenly becomes a grown up song. It's like a serious make everything seem a little sadder. Maybe so then maybe others because sometimes you like you'll get a video of someone singing it, like at a wedding or you know, someone like not not Karen, but somebody else, and it does seem a little well, it's I mean, it is anything, but that is a sad situation. I mean, she said somebody's got the man she loves. I mean, you know, if you really think about it like that, I never really thought about it as being sad either, but I guess it is. You know why I say that because I had Maybe it's because you guys are singing it in front of me. Yeah it was. It was. Now it's a it's a grown woman saying she has the feeling that a adolescent has, as opposed to an adolescent saying I'm having adolescent feelings right. So now it's like that because it makes it even more powerful. I've been transported back to that horrible place in my adolescence when I had these irrational, powerful emotional feelings, and that's that's what's driving me crazy. Yeah, I'm forty five years old, and I feel like I'm sixty. Like that's to me. What see that girl right now? Yeah? I can't swimming pool. I can see her right now too. I saw her when I looked in the mirror this morning. This specially be this other thing I want to talk about. I want to talk about what a country song is these days? Is that a country song? Does it matter? Maybe it doesn't matter, but I'm just curious. I think it's just a song. I mean, I'm sure some of the some people would say it does matter. But from a writing perspective, we just try to just write a song, like we you know what I mean, try not to think too much about that kind of thing. Sometimes when you get in the studio that will kind of play a little bit more into it because you have to pick like different instrumentation and stuff, so that might make it a little more pop sounding or a little more country sounding. But as far as like when we're just sitting around with guitars, we just really just try to write a good song. You know, you don't feel like you belong to a tradition, Well you're acting within particular gen you just I mean, yes, she she writes, I mean she can write anything, but we are writing in a particular genre. It's why we that's why we write in Nashville. That's why we embrace this community. I mean, the best songwriters in the world are in Nashville, Tennessee. So that you know, that's how we feel. And and that's why people come from every genre to this town to write with Nashville songwriters. So but I do believe, we believe we belong to a genre. Although we can step out and do other things. We are country songwriters. And but that day when we wrote that specific song, let's write a country song, like you know, it was just like, let's write a song with this title, right, Like it wasn't like we were trying to necessarily conform to anything. Is there a song that you guys have done, either individually or collectively, that feels like a real country song too? Well, we never finished it, but remember, and I'm sure we have another y' all can answer that better. But that just popped in my head. I remember the last time we all got together. It was the night the day we did the opry that night, and so we wrote it my house. I was just looking at that what's it called? And I can't remember she had the title and we were saying, how somebody said, let's try to write it more in a like traditional country country way. We didn't finish it, though country is very country. You remember it, Lorie. It wasn't the if I should have known, I shouldn't no better, but no, I don't know. I think that is what it was. It was like, but it had more of a country thing. It was something like I should know better, but I don't and it or something like that, I don't like that much. Well finish it sometimes. And it's funny because I think Girl Crush she is kind of very conscious that, you know, the leans towards six ' eight a lot the tempo that song I have issues, although she can do any tempo, but but that's where that landed in that whole like just kind of wallsy feeling. But girl Crust as a title sounds like it could be really pop, but it's also a motown sort of throwback thing. Felt a little there's all that too going on with it, so, you know, and when you look at the production, the little big town production of that song, there's so much restraint in that. You know, there's so much that isn't there that is so necessarily beautiful, like just so necessary now and so beautiful that Jay Joyce and the banded in recording that song like they should. They could have gone to town and they didn't, and it's just so perfect the way they the way that that it ended up. Yeah, we were lucky that we actually never made it into the studio to demo that we never demoed it, so they cut it just off of the work tape on our iPhone, just like us sitting there singing on that. Why do you say you were lucky because we might have messed up the Dagon demo, we might have the production of it, we might have who knows, or we might have nailed it, but who knows. Like they got to take it into the studio and create the sound around it, you know. So the other thing that interests me is is what it means for a woman to write a song. Do you how much of your music couldn't be played by a man, or to not be performed by a man? Yeah, hmm, I don't know. I mean for me personally, like it's you know, when I'm writing, like with with the two of them, we typically you know, lean towards writing women songs. Clearly we're women. We have sat in the room before and and tried to write what we call them dude songs. Did you ever? Have you ever? No? Do you remember any? Can you pay me a little bit of a dude song? So? I bet it was written for a copper tone and that song is partying though I love that song. No, we can probably if we can find it on our if we can find a demo. Let me see, yeah, we have a demo. You don't remember it well enough to How many songs have you guys written together? Now? Wild? Wild is her favorite color? Oh yeah, I play that, but that could still be a girl song. Yeah, but it's really but we wrote it with Chris Stapleton in our heads? Yeah? What was that other one? Like something about the boat thing? Anchor here drop anchor? Yeah? Yeah here? Yeah? Which one am I looking up? I might not be you literally declare up front that it's time to write a dude song. Is that No? We had a little phase where we tried to do that at and it was not and it was fun, but it wasn't like we just declared it. It was more like somebody might have a title and it was like, oh, that's kind of sounds like a dude title. And there are a lot of dudes cutting right now. It's like that kind of thuff, you know what I mean. When we're trying, when we put on our business hats, it can go there. Sometimes we got a paycheck, you know, ready to get your mind blown? This might be really bad. Okay, what year was this? Not too long ago? Like this song? I love this song. This song is so cool. Christian Buff put it and we can't take the heat. Can't they jump in the swim in to see wait guys ting am on, come on, take along, let me get to it. But water make it harder. Capon Chlory. Yeah, it was so sweet, so sweet, m you and me chemistry. Cappon Chlory. Yay. Hey you missed a spawl on your back, Bud. I mean, I'm sorry. That song is awesome. That song has not been cut, you believe. I mean, I actually really love that songs. We should we should, well we shouldn't. Christian Bush cut it, but he did. I don't think you would be Jacob, are you going going? Tim would be amazing. I think Tim has heard it. I think his people have heard it. Any Yeah, it's a good song right here pitching songs, yeah, Tone and chlorine. You guys have so much fun together. How do you go back to writing by yourself? Isn't it so sad? I don't. I mean, she does a lot, she writes a lot by herself. I honestly don't write by myself. Well, I don't live here, So if I lived here, I would just call one of my friends. I would just have I also can't write every day. These guys write every day. I cannot write every day. I'm not. My brain just isn't. I'm just not that smart and I sort of have That's why I think. I you know, if I do come in with, say, more titles, it's because I've been saving them up. Then you guys have to write titles. But but I mean, like you guys write every day. So it's like I think, I think I probably write, you know, six or eight songs a month, and these guys, you know, that's probably double that. Oh. I write every day every single day, pretty much, sometimes twice a day. Not on the weekends. I said, for two weekends ago, I wrote all weekend. Why because I had to, so for me, I got to I mean that's terrible because I had to poor me. But I mean, I think it's just opportunity. It's like if you don't, somebody else will. And I love doing it. It's fun and and like where most people go to lunch with their friends and go shopping. And our friendship, our girl time is when we write. I mean, my best friends came from this business. My best friends came from you know, they're my best friends. And it's because we hang out together and we were very protective of each other and we love each other and we're we're more sisters than co writers, you know. So you can get burnt out though by writing too much. You get burnout on us, not our friendship, on writing every day. Like I am sometimes very envious of Lorie's life and being able to like step away from it and then come back into it and step away from it and this, you know, because being here it is it is like, well, somebody else is going to do it, so you can't drop the ball. Well and for me, being a publisher different, I have to set an example for writers, but everybody's different, you know. But Craig Wiseman used to always say, what is it? It's like a farmer. The more seeds you throw out there, the more crop you'll get. So there's that whole theory too, of just having more songs. And every day you wake up and go, I've got to write today, and there's nothing in my brain. And it's crazy. You walk in a room with nothing in your brain, and as soon as you hear music or somebody starts talking to you about something, suddenly this thing comes out and it's like, holy cow, where did that come from? And to circle back around, that is why we probably don't write along because you wouldn't walk into it, wouldn't. You have to have the other people. I have to have the other people to help inspire and help. I mean, you know, we just feed off of each other, you know so. But Laurie writes geniusly by herself. My favorite song in the world is still your Next Lover. I love that song. That song is so brilliant, right, and I was gonna I want you to play one last song together? Should we do that one? Well, they don't know that one. What's one you can all sing together? We could do sober? What else can we do? We could do? I mean I have to think, Patsy, we could do. I don't. I have to think about Patsy. It's not my brain. You want me to play it? How great to be in position? You guys, are you've written so many successful songs you've forgotten Well, we know it's not that you've written so many successful ones. It's that you've written so many. Yeah, because most of them are sitting on a shelf somewhere on the compewter Shehell, I'm sorry, we got you and you're trying to tell me the chord and I'm ready in the wrong. But that is a song about songs, So that is that is a song about how we feel about songwriting. Like I want to pray it like Jesus listening, I want to play it like it's all we have and uh, it's It's not a song for everybody, but I think people that love songs that have heard that song, well, I don't know, but if I if everybody else can identify, because it's really about how we sit there and like we like some days the song is easy and it and it and it's there in the room and you can feel it in the room. And some days we just literally pour our hearts into it and we we kind of fight it until it's right. And we that's why I can't do it every day because like you have to like just you know, give it your guts every day and and and so much of what we do and nobody hears it but us, and you can't. You can't let that weigh on you because you got to pour your gut out the next day again. And that that's what that song is, I think for all of us, Like I'm not the best singer in the world, but I'm gonna sing like I'm gonna give it my heart, you know what I mean. And that's and we that was something that was a song I needed to write and and I say for these two to write together. And we just had a ball writing it one night. We had a little whiskey I think or something. Why maybe we probably didn't have whiskey, but but that's the kind of thing we do together because like we will save things for each other that we know, like I don't know how to do this, but these guys will. And that's an example of that. I still don't know how to play it. Obviously we did not many thanks to the Love Junkies Liz Rose, Lloyd McKenna and Hillary Lindsay for coming on Broken Record. We put together a playlist of our favorite songs they've written on our website, broken record dot Com. Broken Record is produced by Justin Richmond and Jason Gambrel, with help from mea LaBelle, Jacob Smith, Julia Barton, and Jacob Weisberg. Special thanks to my co hosts Rick Rubin and Bruce Headlam. Our Broken Record theme music is by Kenny Beats. This show is brought to you by Pushkin Industries. I'm Malcolm Bradwick.